User talk:Two kinds of pork

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Welcome![edit]

Hello, Two kinds of pork, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions, especially what you did for PRISM (surveillance program). I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! Capscap (talk) 16:41, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Also, I think your edit in the PRISM article was meant to be in the Boundless informant article?? I removed it from prism, but if I'm wrong, feel free to readd it with a source. Thanks! Capscap (talk) 16:42, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

I didn't realize there was something called Boundless informant. I was reading the prism article from the news section and it doesn't say anything about the name origin which is related to breaking up and reassembling colors.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Two kinds of pork (talkcontribs)

no problem. I think the information you added may describe the heatmap at the top right of the Boundless informant page, so maybe you can add it to that article? All the best, Capscap (talk) 16:55, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Soundgarden[edit]

(Undid revision 592147600 by Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) restoring sourced and relevant opinion, as an objection without a stated reason has no place on wikipedia)

Please attend the on-going discussion at Soundgarden Talk Page[1]. There are very well-reasoned arguments for the edit. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 09:54, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Your recent edits[edit]

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Why does my user name appear in red while others I see are blue?Two kinds of pork (talk) 19:14, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

It's because you haven't created your user page yet.--I dream of horses If you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page. @ 19:58, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

== Susan Lindauer

I would suggest to insert the following sentence in the related article :

Susan Lindauer claims to have been arrested under the Patriot Act and held under indictment for five years without trial Targeted for 9/11 Warning, Voting Rights for ‘Some’, Obama’s Mandela Hypocrisy, RT, July 1st, 2013. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.60.52.124 (talk) 10:42, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Daniel Morgan Perry[edit]

Hi Two kinds of pork,

Instead of just deleting large portions of the article and venting your prejudices against Mr Perry, would you be willing to engage in a constructive discussion about how we can wikify it and bring it into line with WP best practice? Edit wars have a nasty habit of attracting attention. Orthorhombic, 15:20, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Daniel Morgan Perry. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

  1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
  2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. GB fan 15:36, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

It appears only one person is fighting over keeping this ridiculous content.

July 2013[edit]

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a message letting you know that one of your recent edits to Augustus Dunbier has been undone by an automated computer program called ClueBot NG.

Information icon Please refrain from making nonconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Augustus Dunbier with this edit. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted or removed. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Dusti*Let's talk!* 21:08, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

It isn't vandalism. I removed what appears to be a cut and past job from another sight.Two kinds of pork (talk) 21:47, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

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Why am I getting accused of being a vandal by random editors? This makes no sense.Two kinds of pork (talk) 03:47, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Hello, I apologize for the mistaken action as a vandalism edit. Might I recommend you clearly indicate in the edit summary what actions you are taking and why... This would assist folks who are reviewing the edits and allow them to have insight into the thoughts behind your actions. I have removed my warning from above, again my apology - happy editing. TRL (talk) 03:51, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Looks like you have a possible explanation above. Please use edit summaries for now on. I dream of horses If you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page. @ 04:02, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Your recent edits[edit]

Information icon Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion (but never when editing articles), please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either:

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Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 20:40, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Chelsea Manning[edit]

I am so sorry. Yes, I see it now. It was totally inadvertent - we were involved in an edit conflict, and although I thought I had preserved the previous comment, obviously I hadn't. Once again, I'm sorry. StAnselm (talk) 22:51, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation. I'm glad it was a misunderstanding instead of seemingly yet another person looking for an argument.Two kinds of pork (talk) 16:28, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Help request[edit]

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Is there a formatting tutorial for usernames and highlighting?Two kinds of pork (talk) 14:19, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

By "usernames and highlighting", do you mean customizing your signature? APerson (talk!) 15:29, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for responding, but I mean hyperlinks to articles, users, formatted text (like green quotations, bold, italics).Two kinds of pork (talk) 15:31, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
Not really - you can use regular HTML, but that's about it. Mdann52 (talk) 15:58, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Warning[edit]

You are hereby warned that as Talk:Chelsea Manning gender identity media coverage is under discretionary sanctions for the duration of the active arbitration case, this notice will serve as warning that your behavior on that talk page (as well as the other 2 pages under DS via the same injunction) from now on can be sanctioned.

Posted in my capacity as Clerk to the Arbitration Committee,
- Penwhale | dance in the air and follow his steps 06:34, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

I was aware. Was there anything I specifically said, or is this just a general warning?Two kinds of pork (talk) 12:29, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
General warning; the interaction between you and SqueakBox isn't exactly that courteous. It's here in case it gets worse. - Penwhale | dance in the air and follow his steps 15:03, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
Fair enough, though I personally feel that any rude behavior is one-way.Two kinds of pork (talk) 16:29, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
Provoked by Pork because I DARED to challenge his criticising me for saying Bradley is a BLP vio, hardly unacceptable behaviour on my part, sigh. I have the right to vote in RMs without being told to shut up♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 15:19, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

April Arcus[edit]

Hey - I saw your Arbcom evidence. I think that since April Arcus has admitted it was in a moment of frustration, apologized, and agreed not to do it again, I think you should let it go. People make mistakes sometimes.--v/r - TP 18:30, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

I have nothing against her, but was pointing out this was happening nonetheless. As there is no need to get her in trouble (at least I don't) I removed it.Two kinds of pork (talk) 20:33, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. I think that's the right thing to do. The community is burning so many bridges on this issue, it's helpful to see some courtesies extended to help build new bridges.--v/r - TP 20:48, 13 September 2013 (UTC)


Manning RFC[edit]

I recieved your message, I don't see the problem with my comments, as I do suggest policy reasons why Bradley Manning should stay at Bradeley Manning, and I'm not attacking anyone. Let me know which comments you think are out of line,please.  KoshVorlon. We are all Kosh   14:09, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Article rewrite[edit]

Sounds like you're looking for some work to do. Are you interested in helping me rewrite Kenneth Frazier? It was a total BLP catastrophe when I found it. I cleaned it up as best I could, but really it needs an overhaul. I'm compiling notes at Talk:Kenneth Frazier/Notes. When that's done, the writing of new content can begin. My goal for this project is to pass a GA review. DPRoberts534 (talk) 16:39, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea. I've no idea why I've been following this Manning thing in the first place. I'll take a look at the article and see you on the talk page later. Thank you!Two kinds of pork (talk) 18:03, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
Excellent! Whenever you're ready, can you pull up one of the references listed on the notes page and scrape out as much interesting, relevant, and unbiased info as you can? DPRoberts534 (talk) 04:05, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm going to read all of the references in the article first (at least the ones I can get online) to get some familiararity.Two kinds of pork (talk) 11:42, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctions warning[edit]

Ambox warning pn.svg The Arbitration Committee has permitted administrators to impose discretionary sanctions (information on which is at Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions) on any editor who is active on pages broadly related to transgender issues and paraphilia classification (e.g. hebephilia). Discretionary sanctions can be used against an editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, satisfy any standard of behavior, or follow any normal editorial process. If you inappropriately edit pages relating to this topic, you may be placed under sanctions, which can include blocks, a revert limitation, or an article ban. The Committee's full decision can be read at the "Final decision" section of the decision page.

Please familiarise yourself with the information page at Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions, with the appropriate sections of Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures, and with the case decision page before making any further edits to the pages in question. This notice is given by an uninvolved administrator and will be logged on the case decision, pursuant to the conditions of the Arbitration Committee's discretionary sanctions system.

You are engaging in a slow-moving edit war which is not appropriate; please discuss on the talk page rather than continuing to revert. Rschen7754 22:53, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

d4[edit]

For reference, dum dum dum dum. --Bob K31416 (talk) 22:44, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Newsmax[edit]

Greetings. Your input is requested in the discussion at [2]. Thank you.CFredkin (talk) 01:22, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Oppose deletion → Keep[edit]

I humbly suggest editing your !vote at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Talk:Chelsea Manning/FAQ to change “oppose” to “keep”, per Ego White Tray’s comment there. —Frungi (talk) 05:28, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Phyllis Schlafly[edit]

All that collection of jerks do is threaten me. I tried to come and suggest improvements and I get them calling me names, claiming I misrepresent sources (I DO NOT) and threatening me if I "misrepresent sources" again meaning if I speak and I'm not agreeing with them. This whole place is fucking corrupt.

Not a fan of Andrew Carnegie, eh?Two kinds of pork (talk) 02:17, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Patrick Califia[edit]

Please don't reinstate such rants again. I have no idea why you feel the need to champion those BLP violations--and I'm getting a bit tired of cleaning up the history of that talk page. This is not the first time: please consider this a final warning. Drmies (talk) 02:18, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

What BLP violations were in that? The person who made those comments are obviously frustrated at all of their comments being removed. Have you ever thought of that? If something is truly violating BLP, then redact it, and maybe even possibly engage. There are a lot "20 question" rules jokers around here. Are you one?Two kinds of pork (talk) 04:13, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
I'm not going to repeat them. For your benefit, I'll cite from WP:BLP: " Contentious material about living persons (or in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced – whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable – should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion". Parts of that are in bold in the original. You yourself participated briefly in discussion at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard/Archive186#Patrick_Califia, and maybe you should read the rest of that discussion. Also, I don't know what you're getting at with "20 question rules jokers". "Are you one?" What, an admin who enforces our BLP policy, in this case by redacting and rev-deleting blatant accusations? Sure I am. And consider engaging instead of insulting: I explained at length on the IP's talk page last month, User talk:68.118.64.249. Happy days, Drmies (talk) 04:29, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
However in the last rant (and it was a rant) the guy posted about the writings, which as far as I can tell are far game. I'll take your word that something was amiss. In any case, I'll try and be more careful. As for "20 questions", I've seen a lot of nitpicking people with "rules" one-at-a-time and it was obvious to me that they were laughing at people behind their sleeve. Regards.Two kinds of pork (talk) 04:43, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
They basically repeated the same claims, which boil down to "he wrote fiction and non-fiction and in his books promotes [you know what] and thus he himself promotes it". I'll grant you that it's not the worst kind of violation I've ever seen, but it's bad enough (and as a scholar of literature I can't stand that confusion between storyteller/author and "real" person). Now, I thought it was indeed bad enough to revdelete, which is a pretty serious thing (the next-to-most serious kind of redaction), and if I abuse it I'll get in real hot water. In other words, you are welcome to ask another admin to check it out and see if it was justified. But as I said on that user's talk page, they are welcome to discuss the topic, and I think they can do so in a more careful manner, one that complies with our policies. Seriously, I don't mind engaging about engagement and I'm all for discussion. The subject is plenty controversial, but whatever that subject says, as long as they're alive they are entitled to some kind of protection. Regards, Drmies (talk) 04:55, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for being sane and reasonable. If you get into any difficulty over this with an admin, let me know. Shelly Pixie (talk) 20:06, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you also for your comments on drmies page. I noticed you stood up for Sportfan5000 too. I thought this was very fair of you, and really respected you for doing this, despite your disagreements. Shelly Pixie (talk) 22:20, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Tara Platt[edit]

Hi there. I saw what happened over on the Tara Platt article, and I boldly restored the filmography and biography section since there are still plenty of sources that can verify this information. I personally think it is a good idea to just leave filmography sections as is, and source roles that can be sourced per the policy on WP:V and WP:BLP (it's pretty difficult to find sources confirming a role without using a work's end credits, especially for English dubs where reliable coverage is almost non-existent) but without blanking the whole section. The problem is that blanking or commenting-out a section is just not a good practice because it would remove most of the information on the page. While sources are admittedly very difficult to find, this does not mean that such sections should be removed. If needed, I think that simply citing an official website or the work itself would be enough. In the future, I would recommend that you please do not nuke any filmography sections, but instead just tag them. Please be careful next time. If you have any questions or concerns over my edits to an article, discuss here, on my talk page or on the talk page of the article in question. Thanks. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 07:18, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

You added refs to the biography, so that is ok with me. Personally I don't care much about the filmography refs, though some might. But too many of these voice actor bios are unsourced with claims that are BLP issues.Two kinds of pork (talk) 01:56, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

NAMBLA[edit]

Yes check.svg Done Kleuske (talk) 12:27, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

BLPN[edit]

Stop icon This is your last warning. The next time you remove or blank page content or templates from Wikipedia, as you did at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. GiantSnowman 14:07, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Excuse me? What "page content or templates" did I blank or remove?Two kinds of pork (talk) 17:46, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
[3], [4] Toddst1 (talk) 23:19, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
It's not like I wiped the page clean, I removed content that violates BLP. And please have a care with the "drama" accusations.Two kinds of pork (talk) 00:57, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Recreating deleted articles[edit]

Hey, Two Kinds. Not sure why you asked on the AfD if someone can just recreate a deleted article? Jasmine Waltz hasn't been deleted/recreated, has it? Therefore I'm answering you here: yes, they can. Or at least, they can create an article with the same name. They mostly can't recreate the deleted content, since only admins can see what it was. But if someone does go to create an article with the same name, they'll get a warning window that points out it was deleted before. That'll discourage some people, not all. However, depending on the reason for the original deletion, the second article is quite likely to be quickly deleted, too. And once that chain reaction has started, some admin is sure to "salt the earth" — protect the name against recreation. It's really simpler than it sounds… ;-) Bishonen | talk 23:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC).

Bish, I was just thinking out loud and hoping for an explanation. Your explained it all quit nicely. Thanks.Two kinds of pork (talk) 03:01, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Barnstar[edit]

Minor Barnstar Hires.png The Minor Barnstar
Awarded for sticking with it! BlueSalix (talk) 23:18, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Doc Ellis[edit]

Responding to the message you left on my Talk page. It looks like the major objection(s) to your recent edits is based on WP:WEIGHT rather than whether the Deadspin article you are citing is a reliable source. Dezastru (talk) 01:24, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

I understand the objection. I was just giving you a "heads up" that I tried to implement your suggestions. Perhaps it needs tightening up. In any case, I appreciate your time. Two kinds of pork (talk) 03:20, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

First Opium War[edit]

Hi. As mentioned on the First Opium War talk page, I'm answering your question here:
Your Question: What sort of potential losses? This might be a very useful addition to the article.

One of the things that really annoyed the British is that the southern Chinese had no interest in buying the heavy woolen materials and other stuff spewing from their dark satanic mills that were totally unsuitable for the warm southern climate. The northern Chinese weren't interested either, they were quite happy with their traditional quilted cotton stuff. Normally, the British would have exchanged these goods for tea (and other things like rhubarb, which the Chinese were convinced the British couldn't live without), but there could be no deal - if Chinese merchants took unsaleable goods then they would face financial ruin. Silver became the sine qua non until opium came along, which the Chinese did want. There was another reason that the Chinese wanted silver, which is often overlooked - the Qing government had big problems in Xinjiang on the north west border (not much has changed there) with rebellious individuals like Jahangir Khoja. To keep things under control the Qing had to maintain a massive army to contain the problem - and all those troops wanted payment in - you guessed it - silver. This is an oversimplification but you get the idea. Best, ► Philg88 ◄ Star.pngtalk 07:11, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Brilliant! Two kinds of pork (talk) 17:24, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

typo[edit]

corroboration not collaboration Anythingyouwant (talk) 00:39, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Ty. Autocorrect. Two kinds of pork (talk) 00:42, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks ![edit]

Original Barnstar.png The Original Barnstar
For your good contributions to the project! Capitalismojo (talk) 18:42, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Editing at Brendan Eich[edit]

Hello Two kinds of pork. It seems to me that you are up to three reverts on the Eich article. If you revert again it's likely you will be blocked. In my opinion the issue that concerns you won't be accepted as an exception to 3RR. The BLP exception is intended for unsourced defamation, which this is not. At most the Eich matter is a question of WP:UNDUE weight, which needs discussion and consensus and is not a justification for unilateral reverts. My suggestion is that you stay away from reverting others' changes for several days, while discussion continues on the talk page and at WP:BLPN. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 02:11, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the polite message. Yes, I have raised the issue of weight already. As I've said already I'm ok with adding the information in a way that is not leading the reader to come to a conclusion that somehow Eich is defective because of the resignations, and let's be honest - that is how the text read, and how it was intended. The new source which discussed the resignations puts this in the proper light, which is much ado about nothing. Remember, BLP,policy says we must be fair to our subjects at all times.Two kinds of pork (talk) 02:27, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Your view of the BLP policy doesn't give you permission to break WP:3RR. Whether or not you are 'ok with adding the information', if you revert again you may be sanctioned. The relevant policy is WP:3RRNO item #7. Should you find a consensus to back you either at BLPN or on talk, then matters would be different. EdJohnston (talk) 02:50, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
I appreciate your interpretation, but see no need to belabor the finer points of BLP. Everyone who claims A BLP exemption takes a risk. But fortunately that won't be necessary, as it appears the discussion will take place. Two kinds of pork (talk) 03:12, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Re Jason Russell‎‎[edit]

Hi, Two kinds of pork. Seeing that you are a relatively new editor, you may not be familiarized with other than the basics of Wikipedia policy. When debating controversial articles, it's important that you focus on the disputes around the article's content, not the behavior of other editors. I'll gladly clarify for you any doubts you may have, about my concerns with the current reporting of the psychotic break, if you're interested in debating about the neutrality and balance of the section.

Please consider that in order to make a constructive contribution to discussion, you are expected to try to understand what point is being raised. Asking another editor to stop participating is against behavioral policy, and frankly quite ineffective; and stating on the talk page that I'm here to "make a point" (rather merely assuming than I'm trying to improve the article) is a personal attack, and you should avoid it. If you don't want to engage in the about neutrality nor make an effort to understand my point, you can simply stop reading the discussion and let others arrive to a consensus. If you're concerned about the quality of the Russell's biography, I expect that you'll agree to collaborate, and help me avoid the inclusion of cheesy descriptions about his psychotic incident. Cheers. Diego (talk) 09:22, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Contribute away, but this whole underwear-gate business is ridiculous. Just drop it.Two kinds of pork (talk) 15:11, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
As I said, you're free to ignore whatever discussion happens at the talk page. Diego (talk) 15:41, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
If you keep haranguing about the underwear issue in spite of how the RfC is turning out, I will bring this to the attention of the BLP and admin boards. Two kinds of pork (talk) 15:48, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Question re: other accounts[edit]

Hello - please don't take this the wrong way, but it seems unlikely that this is your first Wikipedia account. Could you set my mind at ease and confirm that other accounts you've used (if any) were not blocked, banned, or otherwise subject to sanctions? There's something about your editing that reminds me of a very banned editor, but since I can't crystallize my intuition into diffs I thought I'd just ask you directly rather than beat around the bush. MastCell Talk 21:32, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

If you count ip addresses, then yes this isn't my first account. If you mean a named account, then no, this is the only one. And the reason I created the account was because an article I wanted to fix was preventing all ip addresses from editing. I'm guessing between this and all the others, I've made about a couple hundred article changes, mostly correcting simple errors or facts. The only sanction I've ever received was a warning (see #13 above). And while I appreciate it that you don't mean to offend, but what is it about my editing is ban worthy? Two kinds of pork (talk) 03:12, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Previous accounts[edit]

Are you Off2RioRob/Youreallycan? Hipocrite (talk) 20:39, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

I have no idea who you are talking about/Ireallydont. Did you see my post right above this one? Explain yourself or leave me alone. Same goes for MastCell and other creepy stalkers.Two kinds of pork (talk) 22:06, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

American politics arbitration evidence[edit]

Hi. You contributed to a recent RFC about this topic area. This message is to notify you that the arbitration proceedings at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics are underway, and evidence about all disruptive edits to articles within this topic is being accepted at the relevant case page. If you wish to submit evidence for the committee to consider in reaching its decision, please do so now. The evidence phase of the case ends soon, and evidence submitted after the deadline may not be considered. Further advice on submitting evidence, and what evidence the committee will accept, is linked at the top of the evidence page. Please contact me or the other drafting arbitrator if you require more time to submit evidence. Thank you. For the Arbitration Committee, AGK [•] 14:15, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

can you point out where activists are mentioned in that source?[edit]

I'm not seeing it. Your point about the differentiation between resignation and boycott was spot on, however. --j⚛e deckertalk 05:02, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Let's go to the talk page please.Two kinds of pork (talk) 05:03, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
No prob, responded there. Cheers, --j⚛e deckertalk 05:09, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Jason Russell[edit]

Your edits to this article and to the talk page were wholly inappropriate. In the article you inserted an unsourced quote and a sentence that wasn't noteworthy and wasn't even well-crafted. On the talk page, you reverted the archiving bot saying stuff was recent. Most of the material was from March. The latest post I believe was from April 30, which is not recent. Worse, having reverted the bot, you left the archive alone, thus not even cleaning up after yourself. I've reverted your edits to both pages. Please try to edit more responsibly in the future.--Bbb23 (talk) 05:12, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

I missed the reference, my apologies. But it's not my responsibility nor do I care about the bot. I care about the talk page and it removed everything, including the RfC. Does 3RR apply to bots too? Since it can't participate in BRD, what am I to do? Sheesh. Can you please just put the RfC back?Two kinds of pork (talk) 05:20, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

offside (association football)[edit]

Hi,

I saw you edited the Offside (association football) wiki page so that it claims that offside IS the most confusing rule(etc.) But, in my personal opinion, it's pretty easy to understand. I changed the page so it doesn't say that offside IS confusing(...), rather that it has been CALLED confusing(...)

The reference you used was an american source and the world already has enough people who are prejudiced against americans with regard to their understanding of soccer, so I am making this note on your talk page in case you might want to remove that part entirely from the page.

Cheers!

-anon

No.Two kinds of pork (talk) 01:20, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for your efforts on that page. I still think it's atrociously confusing. In normal English, the opponents' goal would be the place they are aiming at in order to score. That's what a goal is, outside association football. Something you aim for. So the opponents' goal line would be there too. I manage junior school soccer teams in Australia, where it's not the major code. We have a lot of enthusiastic beginners. In winter, my school fields teams in Australian football, rugby union, soccer and (field) hockey. The latter sport abandoned the offside rule decades ago. The kids remain confused forever. So do I. HiLo48 (talk) 07:04, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Offside position is fairly simple; don't be ahead of the last outfield defender towards the opponents goal without possessing the ball. Technically you could posses the ball and have the ball behind you and still not be offside. It's the sanction that confuses most people.Two kinds of pork (talk) 07:33, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Note the language you used there. You spoke of "the opponents goal", meaning the goal I want to get the ball in. In normal English, that's MY goal, the thing I'm aiming for. Have a think of the impact of that reverse meaning on people not imbued in the language of the game since birth. It's confusing. HiLo48 (talk) 07:40, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Your objective is to put the ball in the opponents goal and prevent the ball from going in your goal. This is supported by the language FIFA uses, such as "attacking" for kick offs and "defenders" for corners.Two kinds of pork (talk) 07:49, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
It may well be FIFA's language, but it's not normal English. Outside soccer, a goal is something we all aim for. I have a goal. Make a million dollar. I what I'm aiming at. I just wish soccer could explain itself in normal English. It would make my job a lot easier. It's confusing right now. HiLo48 (talk) 08:19, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
That's debatable if it's "normal" or not. However the attack theirs/defend your goal is a common theme in many sports, with a "goal" such as basketball, ice hockey, lacrosse, polo (both land and water) for starters. But for our purposes, we use what the sources state.Two kinds of pork (talk) 15:14, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
This discussion began on the matter of whether it's confusing or not. I could find plenty saying it is. And it's part of the problem for the growth of the game where it's not already strong. Many people who have grown up with the gsme seem to find it impossible to accept that. HiLo48 (talk) 17:11, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
I don't disagree that it's confusing; in fact I added text supporting it is the most misunderstood and confusing law of the game. But IMO this confusion is due to the sanction, not the offside position itself, and certainly not my goal vs their goal terminology. Two kinds of pork (talk) 18:37, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
I have no idea what you mean by "the sanction". Ice hockey, lacrosse and the polos are rare in my country. Basketball is common enough, but I don't hear the same sort of language about my goal and your goal. Yes, it has defence and offence, but that's about play, not places. As I said, I look after beginners, in a country where the game competes with bigger games without offside rules, and where goals are what you aim at. It's very difficult. HiLo48 (talk) 02:12, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
The "rules" for soccer are officially known as "The Laws of the Game". Sanctions are the result of handling violations of the laws. When the ball crosses a touchline, the "sanction" is a throw-in is awarded to the team that did not last touch the ball. Pushing, grabbing and holding an opponent are all against the laws of soccer. The sanction is a direct free kick may be awarded. It is up to the refs discretion as to whether or not to sanction a violation. For example, lets say a player shoves the player with the ball, yet the player manages to hold their balance and make a good pass to his teammate in the open field. The referee would wisely yell "advantage" or "play on" and make a sweeping two handed gesture. This is the ref telling the players and spectators that, "Yes, I saw the push. But in my opinion the team that suffered the push had an immediate opportunity to advance the ball, so I'm not enforcing the sanction". If there were no advantage, then the free kick would have been awarded. Being in an offside position is a violation of Law 11, however it is only enforced, or sanctioned if the player in the offside position got involved in the play. It's too bad you dont have ice hockey, because this is very similar to the delayed offside rule of that sport. Why not sanction EVERY instance of a player being offside? Because it would slow the game down.Two kinds of pork (talk) 02:33, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
Wow, I'm used to the word "sanction" meaning to permit something to be done. Ain't English wonderful? HiLo48 (talk) 02:40, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

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Susan Lindauer[edit]

I suspect that you are right in that there is a COI editor involved.

If the subject of the article is verifiably in favor of deleting (via the OTRS) and if I remember the sourcing correctly, the only marginal claims of notabilty rest on dropped criminal charges, then I would not be opposed to deletion.

It does not seem to have been picked up widely as one of the iconic misapplications of the War on Terror laws which might be a target for a merge or redirect?-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:55, 3 August 2014 (UTC)