User talk:YLSS

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File:BSicon ENDEma.svg + others[edit]

moved to commons:Talk:BSicon/Renaming#File:BSicon_ENDEma.svg_.2B_others

Nomination for deletion of Template:ME-importance[edit]

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:ME-importance has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 23:11, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

re Unheeding reversals[edit]

Please do not revert edits without analysing properly whether they are constructive or not. You may have been edit warring with Defender miz; he may be a sockpuppet (no idea on that); he may have disrupted the style of a featured list (not everybody is aware of all FL discussions); he may have shown or does show some poor editing from time to time; but all that does not mean that you can revert a page to its state before he made any edits [1][2]. By that one, not only did you revert three other persons' edits, but also removed valuable additions to the article (which, unlike awards lists, is intrinsically incomplete). Five of the releases he added have they own articles (and do not necessitate references in a list - although, yes, they should be added if we aim for feature quality; but it is unattainable in this case...); the one that did not have an article, he referenced; and some other fixes he also did properly. At least he knows wiki markup, unlike all those IPs... And anticipating any questions, I am not a sockpuppet of anybody. YLSS (talk) 21:02, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Understood, thank you, I'll take more care to look into that in the future. Glad to hear someone else is looking into this disturbing behavior pattern by Defender miz (talk · contribs). — Cirt (talk) 21:06, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
I can assure you, I am no sockpuppet. Never even heard of the guy I am accused of being. Cirt, I do not have harsh feelings towards you. YLSS, thank you for understanding. Defender miz (talk) 22:05, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Okay, Defender miz (talk · contribs), thank you very much for the polite response and your talk page engagement, I really appreciate that! — Cirt (talk) 04:47, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Станции метро[edit]

Наличие раздельных статей об одних и тех же станциях метро на разных линиях некорректно. Две части на разных линиях - одна статья, это устоявшаяся практика en.wp (1, 2, 3, 4). Ворот93 (talk) 14:52, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Меня немного удивляет ваша безаппеляционность... Честно говоря, ваш взгляд, что две Курские - это одна станция, я вижу впервые, и по всей видимости он был поддержан только Artem Karimov и редакторами чешской Википедии. По поводу станций вашингтонского, парижского, пражского или вьенского метро я ничего не утверждаю, ибо не являюсь знатоком данных систем. В московском же метро, принципиальное отличие которого от большинства иностранных - отсутствие перегонов, использующихся более чем одной линией, - подобные станции считаются отдельными объектами инфраструктуры (в отличие от станций с кросс-платформенной пересадкой). Они строились в разное время, могут при необходимости функционировать отдельно друг от друга, и единственное, что их связывает - одинаковое название. Но во-первых, названия у нас вещь непостоянная, и ничто не мешает начальству метро взять и переименовать одну станцию из пары; а во-вторых, пересадочный узел Курская АПЛ - Курская КЛ ничем принципиально не отличается от Добрынинской - Серпуховской, и уж точно нет смысла объединять две Курские, но держать их отдельно от Чкаловской. Можно было бы создать страницу про пересадочный узел "Kurskaya-Kurskaya-Chkalovskaya", в котором бы явно прописывалось, что это три станции, а не одна с тремя залами, но это было бы уж как-то громоздко... Если у вас имеются другие доводы по данному вопросу, думаю, нам стоит перенести данную дискуссию на страницу какого-то проекта. YLSS (talk) 19:09, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Regarding your revert on Hologram (album)[edit]

Hello there YLSS, I'm aware that you reverted the redirect I placed on Hologram (album), and you gave the edit summary a reason which is not accepted, existence is not a reason why an article should be kept within Wikipedia, the article must be relevant, well sourced and its notability must be shown, I suggest you to read WP:Notability and WP:Verifiability guidelines, and also check out specific guideline criteria WP:NMUSIC, which is applied to Music Notability (including singers, singles, albums, lyrics and so on), please if you have any doubt about any of these essays feel free to contact me. Regards Eduemoni↑talk↓ 03:34, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

OK, but let's do this properly, so that the redirect doesn't show up in various maintenance categories. YLSS (talk) 05:55, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Useddenim and Edmonton LRT[edit]

I'm sorry to drag you into this, but I wanted to further reply to your comments on ANI, and you seem to be more willing to talk about route diagrams than Useddenim. I see how multiple diagrams for multi-line systems can be beneficial, if they even had 45 stations and two lines like C-Train. Route diagrams need to be controlled so that they don't become bloated with too much information. Template:ETS LRT route isn't a large diagram, in 2014 Edmonton will only have 3 stations off the main line. More stations are approved, but there is no plans to start construction. The neighbouring city of St. Albert has announced in one reference that they were looking at locations for the LRT within their limits, but proposed is not planned, and very much not set into stone. I once believed in m:eventualism (interesting article by the way), and added proposed lines to this revision. But proposals often don't happen, so now I bring down the WP:CRYSTAL hammer. The diff you added to ANI of Useddenim's edit to Template:Metro Line was not Useddenim adding that St. Albert reference, and as I explained on that template talk page, it doesn't matter, because that reference doesn't provide stations names. Writing multiple templates and citing eventualism and large LRT systems seems like a CRYSTAL violation to me, because it reminds me of how novice users write about TV shows. I don't know if you are familiar with WP:TV, but successful shows have a main article, then a list of episodes article, then articles on each of the seasons. When a novice user comes to edit a new TV show they use this as a model, and create three articles for a show that hasn't even aired yet. Sure, it could be successful, but for now all the information can be on one page. I'm sorry if this is out of place, and I can understand if you don't respond, but I feel like I need to express more of my opinion when the other side of the conversation isn't there. 117Avenue (talk) 02:53, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, I can only provide my humble thoughts on this matter, as I live quite a long way from Edmonton.
  • What's your opinion of Tuválkin's solution? I came to view it as the most flexible one: a short, purely navigational template to be placed in articles on stations (it is more intuitive that navbars), and a detailed template at the article on line. In ru.wp, we began including various side-tracks etc. (as in ru:Шаблон:Бутовская линия). A more sophisticated way is using smart collapsing, as done in no.wp (no:Gråkallbanen), but that would require quite a lot of work.
  • On CRYSTAL violation: yeah, I also dislike including tentative plans into templates, and at ru.wp we even have an ongoing discussion about that... If what you've written here is true, I'd rather be on your side - but I really won't make any judgement! ;) For comparison, there is ru:Шаблон:Третий пересадочный контур about a line of 30 stations of which only 6 are being constructed, 7 more penned to exact locations, and the rest only vaguely planned (and I still hope plans will change); or also ru:Шаблон:Казанский метрополитен (схема линий) about the eventual layout of Kazan Metro, 70% of which are far-off projects (albeit official and sourceable). I'm not saying I would vote for keeping them at TfD, but maybe it is acceptable to provide the user with an image of the current governmental views on the subject? Still, this should of course be discussed by you & Useddenim (& others).
  • As a general advice, I would suggest you & Useddenim to forget all past grievances and harsh words, and engage into a peaceful and polite discussion from tabula rasa. Both of you seem to be sane users with a wish to contribute for the benefit of wp, quite a lot experience and a wish to build a consensus (I can assure you there is one on his side). Just begin with some general questions and each post the points you can make, and once you've reached a compromise, go on to another question... (You may forward him this message ;) ).
--YLSS (talk) 18:22, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
I pretty much agree with everything. A detailed RDT is too large to be placed on every station article, but if it is a small system, why confuse the reader with multiple RDTs? With future info, I think we need the location to be confirmed before adding it to a RDT, studies can be mentioned in the prose, which is what I've done on Metro Line. I try my best to sound polite and peaceful in my comments, but tone is always interpretation, when reading. I'm still waiting for Useddenim to reply to my questions on future information, and posted more on WT:RDT, but so far it is just us three. Useddenim is aware of this discussion, as evidenced by his 5 October 2013 edit. 117Avenue (talk) 00:14, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Compound junctions[edit]

√ery clever use of the note= parameter! Useddenim (talk) 01:09, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Category:Draco Rosa[edit]

Category:Draco Rosa, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. —Justin (koavf)TCM 16:59, 15 October 2013 (UTC)


Thank you for the suggestion of using parentheses rather than commas. That makes the sentence flow much better, without removing the benefit I am guessing the original contributor intended by including the countries within which those cities are located. Garth of the Forest (talk) 02:14, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for thanking ;) Will reply at talkpage. YLSS (talk) 10:40, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Talk:List of 2014 albums#Citation redundancy[edit]

Recent annotation of the words redundant (me) and should+ideally (your good self), indicate a PoV conflict. Thus, I've started Talk:List of 2014 albums#Citations and when are they redundant, on a summary page? for the wrangling of consensus :D – Ian, DjScrawl (talk) 12:23, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

"Update links"[edit]

This is a misleading edit comment when you are updating BSicons in Templates. I would expect to find changes to the Wikilinks. Why not say "update icons" or something similar. 16:28, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I do not update icons: neither introduce new ones, nor modify them; just correcting the tag after they've been moved at Commons, like updating Wikilinks after pagemoves. When I modify the diagram, I use "upd links + new icons". But of course, this is just a matter of habit (or auto-fill). YLSS (talk) 16:34, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Sofia metro map Template[edit]


Я просто хотел сказать Спасибо за помощ с иконками, которые уже не изображаются правильно Template:Sofia Metro Red line. Мне бы пришлось долго заботиться. Verminclone (talk) 13:37, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Да не за что, мне даже было интересно редактировать такой уникальный шаблон! YLSS (talk) 13:40, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Adding restroom facilities to railroad diagrams[edit]

Hello. I noticed your edit, and while I understand your reasoning, I just wanted to bring your attention to several diagrams that do have an icon for restroom facilities, including the Central Link in Seattle. I just wonder if it would be appropriate at all to include an icon for restroom facilities for major stations (e.g. NYC's Penn Station, etc.) on railroad diagrams. Also, would it be at all feasible to do something similar to Amtrak's railroad diagrams for Greyhound Bus Lines? Jay (talk) 21:41, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

I've answered you at Commons, and most surprisingly, I proposed precisely the same solution as in Template:Central Link map, without having seen it or any other! I just don't think there is a need to have a BSicon showing the same thing: the only reason to name a file "BSicon smth" is to use it through {{BS3}} etc. Meanwhile, restroom facilities do not play any role in the layout of the line, so there is little need (IMHO) to place such an icon among station pictograms; although it is still possible to place it left of the main text, in the space provided for distances/timing (e.g. 4th parameter of {{BS3}}). If you don't want to spell out the name of the file each time, you can create a small template, like {{rint}}.
WRT Greyhound Bus Lines: well, why not, if the route of the bus does not change every couple of years and it's relatively constant, I see no reason why not to employ an RDT to visualise it. AFAIR, there are some RDTs for Belgian bus lines (in fr.wp?)... YLSS (talk) 22:03, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

About BS-map[edit]


I'm sorry for my offending that undo the BS-map edition of zh:Template:广州地铁RDT/3 yesterday.

As you see, the Guangzhou Metro RDT series is mainly maintain by me currently. So I'm worry about some difference between the BS-map module and tranditional BS* template.

What I'm considering is

  • The whole map frame seems widther then it is before.
  • Some features look different a lot from the tranditional one, such as collapsible.
  • The title of a collapsible is wrapped, that breaks the map.

I'm interesting on this solution but it's so unfamiliar for me. I would like to introduce this module to all RDTs of Guangzhou Metro.

Sorry that my English is poor so I may not completely explained my idea.

Chenxingyu (talk) 13:05, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Hello Chenxingyu, thanks for bringing this up! The main reason to use BS-map is that it employs a Lua script, zh:Module:Routemap, instead of the complicated wiki template markup. This improves performance a lot. At ru.wp, a separate template was created, ru:Template:Routemap; at zh.wp, Sameboat decided to implement everything into zh:Template:BS-map.
  • Yes, sometimes the width has to increased. I have an idea how to improve this, but I don't know when I will do that...
  • What do you mean by "different"? The coding or the result?
  • Try increasing 110 in text-width=,110,130 parameter. Things look different in various browsers, so I don't know whether it's broken or not...
Currently, the module is primarily developed by me and Sameboat (who speaks Chinese), so if you have any questions or suggestions, you can always contact either of us! YLSS (talk) 14:33, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
Hi YLSS, I've just converted and reviewed BS-map for Line 1 ~ 4 of Guangzhou Metro. It's pretty cool! I'll introduce BS-map to all Guangzhou Metro series these days. Thank you! Chenxingyu (talk) 03:18, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Mixed vSTR icon[edit]

Please help this guy (user talk:Sameboat#Need your expert help again regarding rail pictograms). -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 11:19, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

(Funny... I chanced to notice that post at you talk page just a couple of minutes before you posted me; but decided not to intervene, so as not to become a WP:Talk page stalker. YLSS (talk) 12:18, 17 February 2014 (UTC))
I don't mind talk page stalking especially regarding BSicon (actually Ian should have posted it in BSicon project talk page, but it was not a fault at all, just better option). You may still add something even though Useddenim has already answered the inquiry. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 12:35, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
I stalk Jimbo's talk page occasionally.--Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 12:37, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

An invitation[edit]

Hi YLSS, Love your work!

While I have already extended an invitation to Sameboat, I would love it if you could take a look a where I've gone wrong here? Everyone is more than willing to fix but not to explain/teach and I'm getting no closure from here or here - Have I overlooked other reading material relating to route maps?

The problem is the text won't line up.... I know it has something to do with the collapsible sections but I can't seem to figure out what. Sameboat has fixed this for me before, but every time I make an addition to the template I'm right back to square one. This route map is pretty much where it needs to be.... I'd love it fixed, but more importantly I'd like to know how to fix it myself?

Any help you can offer would be appreciated.
Wiki ian 20:43, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Hello again ;) Well, I've checked that template and only updated some icons, but not the coding — leaving that up to you!
The first thing you should note is that the first parameter after after the icons produces right-aligned text of reduced size in an "additional" column before the main text column. So unless you want to add some distances in kilometers or timing, leave a blank parameter after the icons. That is, for {{BS3}}, for example, you can enter three icons, then an empty parameter, and then a text label: {{BS3|ICON1|ICON2|ICON3||Text}}. For tables with collapsible sections this is even more important in that left-aligned text (in the main column) will naturally be lined up to the icons column; but right-aligned text may be mis-aligned because of different widths of collapsible blocks.
Next thing is that the width of the icons block should be the same for all BS-collapsible rows and should equal the width of the widest icons block of the table overall. So if somewhere in the diagram you have BS5, then all collapsible rows should be BS5-collapsible. (That is, if we only use full-width icons, and not the half-width "d" ones.) Other rows may be BS4, BS3 and so on.
Finally, the tw parameter should be set with the same value for all BS-collapsible rows, and also at least for one row outside collapsible sections (for example, the first one). The value should be chosen a bit larger than the width of the widest text field in the table. In the present case, that would be "Tasmanian Transport Museum", I guess.
I hope that clears the things up ;) If you have any more questions, I'll be glad to answer them! YLSS (talk) 21:19, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
South Line
Station representation???
Western/Bell Bay Lines as well as a siding known as "Western Junction"
Fingal Line and Conara siding
Derwent Valley line as well as old passenger station
kABZgl (kABZgl)
eHST (eHST)+kABZc1 (kABZc1)+kABZc2 (kABZc2) | kABZl+l (kABZl+l)+lCONTffq (lCONTffq)
kABZg+l (kABZg+l)
dABZg2 (dABZg2) | ÜWc3 (ÜWc3)
d (d) | edHST (edHST)+x18px (dÜWc12) | ABZl+34 (ABZl+34)| dCONTfq (dCONTfq)
dABZg+1 (dABZg+1) | ÜWc4 (ÜWc4)
Thankyou so much for quick response - I shall have a crack at it now :-)
While I have your attention.... there are 3 stopping points on the South Line that I don't feel I can truthfully represent on the route map without comprising it. If you look at this link, you'll see the Bridgewater station exists right in the Wye (as do the other 2). I don't like the existing situation on the route map, and I'm not to fond of the idea of displaying text on both sides of the route map. Do you have any ideas for me?
Two of them. The first one uses icons with "k" prefix and is easier, but eats more space. The second employs half-width icons (with prefix "d"), which are always tricky... Also, I would recommend you to place |O1=... bits directly following the base icon. This does not alter the order of other parameters, but makes the things easier for later editors. YLSS (talk) 22:48, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
This is all very new to me. I was able to replicate the first Wye you demonstrated with relative ease.... but going the other way around I have not been able to master (track branching left instead of right). Could I please trouble you to demonstrate one the other way around. Thanks heaps, Wiki ian 01:38, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
I've done a bit, but I'm not yet confident about what I'm doing. If you look here, you notice I had to revert my last edit.... what did I do wrong? the 01=, 02=, 022= is really confusing me lol

Wiki ian 05:21, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Heh, that's not zeros, that's letters "O", from "overlay" ;) YLSS (talk) 09:52, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
How many overlays can you have per tile? and should they be placed in any order? Wiki ian 07:49, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Presently, you can have a base icon + five overlays. The order of listing them does not matter, only the order of indices. Base icon is beneath the rest, O# comes next, then O#2, then O#3, O#4, and O#5 is the topmost. YLSS (talk) 18:26, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
WP:RDT#Overlay says up to “five overlapping layers in total” plus the base, making six: i.e.
|ICON|On=|On2=|On3=|On4=|On5=. Continuing, “… it is a good practice to list the overlay icons immediately following the corresponding “base” icon entry. That way we humans do not need to look back and forth at the codes.” And, “The upcoming lua transition of this project which improves resource usage and loading time … requires the overlapping icon IDs to be lined immediately after the icon ID of lower layer[s].” Useddenim (talk) 18:30, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
South Line (Tasmania)
Western LineBell Bay Line
Western Junction
Western Junction to Conara
Snake Banks
Midland Highway
Epping Forest
Hobart Port
Is it possible to not have any text in bs expandable line and instead, have the {{BS3-replace||eHST|||[[Evandale, Tasmania|Evandale]]}} in the line underneath? currently when you press expand it shows just a straight tack in its place, but I was wondering if I could move the Evandale station in the straight track's place? Wiki ian 09:48, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
Yes, it's completely OK to do that. At least when the text is short. It is even possible to leave some text in the BS-startCollapsible line, and have "Evandale" replace it after expanding, although this requires adding {{pad|100px}} after "Evandale" so that all of the text underneath it is hidden. YLSS (talk) 11:00, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

What am I doing wrong?[edit]

Western Line (Tasmania)
Old Surrey Road 
Cascade Road
Metaira Road
Metaira Road
Circular Road
Ridgley Highway
Oonah Road
Tena Road
Ridgley Highway
Sugarloaf Road
Upper Natone Road
Silvermine Road
Guildford Road
North Goderich Road
Bunkers Road
Wey River
Bunkers Road
Hellyer River
Waratah Spur
Guildford Road
Muddy Creek
Clipper Road
Hellyer River
Murchison Highway
Huskisson Road
Hatfield River
Suprise Creek
Que River
Que River
Sawmill Creek
Boco Creek
Pieman Road
Lake Rosebery
Chasm Creek
Rosebery Mine
Strahan-Zeehan Line

Great news - with the advise you gave me. I have successfully adapted both the Western Line & Southern Line Templates.However, I'm having trouble fixing the Melba Line Template. Half of the collapse button is covered up. What am I doing wrong? Many thanks Wiki ian 08:47, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

scratch that... I think I worked it out. thanks anyway Wiki ian 08:57, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

San Francisco Bay area rail map[edit]

Thanks for the assist on cleaning up my outdated code! My new focus will be to start filling in missing icons to the commons, any suggestions? BT14 (talk) 23:33, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Ooph, I don't even know what to suggest... All basic icons are already there, and before creating new ones (or improving the existent), I would recommend you to check commons:Talk:BSicon/Icon geometry and SVG code neatness. Or, if you want, there is another task at hand: replacing icons from commons:Category:Icons for railway descriptions/obsolete redirect with revised names. YLSS (talk) 23:45, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Are you sick of me yet? — No, of course not![edit]

Example Line
continues that way
Does that look right to you?
— Better now?
Overlay doesn't work?
No, hRP4 is too
continues that way

Hello again my most helpful friend. May I first start by saying how grateful I am for your in depth teachings on route maps. Your advise in conjunction with the examples you have provided have increased my knowledge on route maps 4 fold.

I will try not to bother you too much more as I'm sure you're not here just to help me off my Training wheels. Can you provide a solution to the newest challenge I find myself facing? If you look at this route map, you will see I have been trying to realign the route map as parallel track even when travelling as a single track. So far so good, except overpass pictograms and overlay. I have looked on commons with no alternatives? What could I be doing better as the bridges demonstrated don't really look the best and there doesn't seem to be a pictogram set out in parallel track format with only one track passing through.

Additionally, the template in question is describing a proposed Light rail service that will operate in the same corridor (and track) as the South Line, concurrently with Freight trains. Can the Northern suburbs light rail route map be better set out to show both heavy rail and light rail will be sharing the same tracks?

Thankyou once again.
Wiki ian 11:20, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

I guess standard icons for overlaying won't work with four-lane roads, they are too wide... But if all you need is placing a bridge over a line that is shifted out from the middle, you can shift the bridge as well. Just add d (d) (empty half-width icon) at one side to shift things by a quarter.
WRT sharing the same tracks, this is often shown by overlaying either 1) a tunnel line, 2) an interrupted line, 3) a narrow line on top of a regular one. (The last set is poorly developed as yet.) YLSS (talk) 17:31, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
2013-10-19 bowen-brooker-rail+bike track1.jpg
You have all the answers. I want to say thankyou again but I've already said it too much lol
3 more questions if you have the answers, kind sir.
  • What is the intended purpose of these pictograms? The naming lead me to believe it was intended to demonstate Cycle paths and leasure walks. But after clicking what links here on random pictograms in the set, I've started to get the idea I was wrong (eg. this on and that one). The picture on the right shows the Brooker Highway passing over the south line with a bike track running parallel. this bike track runs almost 15km and will feature along the majority of riverline. Are there pictograms for bike tracks and is it worth demonstrating in the route map?
  • While looking for inspiration I found this which lead me to investigate Template:RoutemapRoute further. and thought it would be really good for the top of the south line route map instead of the BSto template. however while both lines centre on the example, I had no such luck on the south line map.
  • c/d/cd - you've explained them and I now know their purpose. But I still don't understand how to use them properly. What function does each one serve and do they work like the overlays (one command per column) or are there limitations to how many can be in a row?

Thankyou, Wiki ian 03:46, 7 March 2014 (UTC

  • These icons were AFAIK originally introduced for footpaths (that's where "f" comes from), i.e. long-distance trails (I'm not sure about them being leisure walks). However, they came to be used for other things as well, primarily for Metro lines that are usually coloured green on diagrams (e.g. ru:Template:Замоскворецкая линия. Indeed, there is no restriction that some icons should be used only to represent this particular concept, and not anything else. So you can use these "f"-icons or some others to represent anything you need, but in any case, better include a note into the diagram explaining what they are used for. Whether it's worth demonstrating a bike track – I dunno; that is wholly up to your judgement. If that track affects somehow the constructive aspects of the railway, then it's probably worth including; otherwise, I would not recommend cluttering the diagram...
  • I'm afraid I don't understand you... What does and doesn't centre and where?
-- YLSS (talk) 06:56, 7 March 2014 (UTC)


moved to Template talk:Tubestation

Lua questions[edit]

Hi. I am starting to write my own lua module after being frightened by the lack of tutorial year ago. Right now I've started a relatively simple module:MTR for Hong Kong MTR's color and icon styles. I referenced your ru:module:MoscowMetro a lot but also made many changes because primarily MTR never numbers its metro lines (which is a shame). I made a long list which wanted to replicate the wiki parser function of #SWITCH. It is doing its job but I feel the whole thing can be tremendously streamlined without repeating the same output for every single value.

The other question I have is the icon table which repeats some of the codes from the colorbyname table. I did that because I had no luck at all calling the colorbyname function inside the icon table. Please kindly advice me how to improve the module. Thank you. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 02:11, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Hm, it appears that Mr. Stradivarius has already changed the things beyond recognition (I don't know if that was asked for on not), so I think you need to reformulate your questions now (if there are any still). I wonder why he used such a complicated system of function calls when there is only a limited number of possible parameters that can be easily handled directly (as I did in ru:module:MoscowMetro). And I hope it isn't really necessary to use {{uc}} each time... YLSS (talk) 12:59, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
I actually made the request at Wikipedia talk:Lua‎#‎Trouble of template inheriting module parameters because the icon function didn't work properly. Stradivarius explained the change is also for performance sake. I don't quite understand its mechanism, but the change does avoid unnecessary template parameter inheritance and parser function in the transcluding templates.[3][4] -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 13:09, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
Maybe you're right, using Module:Arguments might have been overkill. Feel free to rewrite it however you want - I won't mind at all. Using parser functions and getting arguments from wikitext are the two biggest performance drains in my experience, so I usually try and avoid them. Again, let me know if you have any questions about what I've done - I'm afraid that my changes may have been a little more vigorous than you had hoped for, so explaining them is the least I can do. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 15:22, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
@Mr. Stradivarius: No no no, I only saw that template after you edited it, so I didn't expect anything at all, I was just confused by what Sameboat wrote and what I saw in the code. I'm also pretty inexperienced with the way MediaWiki interacts with Lua and what are the best practises to enhance performance, so I would only welcome your advice! While we're on this topic, could you please explain a couple of points, preferably using ru:Template:MOSMETRO icon as an example? It has pretty much the same parameters as en:Template:MOSMETRO-bull, but I converted it to use Lua not so long ago, via ru:module:MoscowMetro.
-- YLSS (talk) 16:56, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
Module:Arguments is just a convenience function. It does three basic things:
  1. It trims whitespace from arguments and removes blank arguments. Using frame.args directly doesn't change the arguments at all, which can be confusing. For example, if you use the code frame.args[1] or '', and the module is called like {{#invoke:foo|myFunction| }}, then the result will be '   ', rather than the '' you were probably expecting.
  2. It fetches arguments both from #invoke and from the template that called #invoke.
  3. It uses metatables to only retrieve arguments from wikitext when the args table is indexed by the module.
Also, all of these are configurable. Module:Arguments doesn't do anything special for performance - in fact, it has a slight performance cost. The performance benefits come from limiting the number of arguments expanded from wikitext. As I said, that is typically the thing that takes the most time, whether you're loading arguments from a module or whether you're passing parameters from a template to an #invoke. So if you can reduce any of those, you should make good performance savings, particularly for templates that are called hundreds of times on a page. That's why I used the parentOnly option in Module:MTR - so that the module wouldn't check for arguments in the #invoke when they were always going to be passed through directly from the template.

You can also get good performance savings from using mw.loadData - it makes sense that processing some data once and then using the result 100 times will be quicker than processing the data 100 times. So as your template is being used 300 times on a page, then yes, you definitely should consider using mw.loadData. :) The best way to use it is to separate all the data that won't change depending on the module's arguments. You said everything except functions, but sometimes you can actually move functions to the /data page, as long as they don't depend on the module arguments and as long as the output is just data. For example, I moved the p.getParamMappings function from Module:Namespace detect to Module:Namespace detect/data, which saved a lot of cycles. This has turned into quite a long post, so I'll leave it there for now. Hope this helps! — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 18:12, 10 April 2014 (UTC)