Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bugs and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

Newcomers to the technical village pump are encouraged to read these guidelines prior to posting here. Questions about MediaWiki in general should be posted at the MediaWiki support desk.

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revision history statistics[edit]

(I hate to bring this up again)hi , the "revision history statistics " link is down,its at "External tools" in page histories at the English Wikipedia for users with en or en-gb as language. It's made by [1] and goes to (well it wont open).thanks--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 11:48, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Should be back up now. Was fixed about an hour ago. --Glaisher (talk) 15:41, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

revision history link,,,,it's not my fault , I can only report it (5x in last month)[edit]

(I hate to bring this up again)hi , the "revision history statistics " link is down,its at "External tools" in page histories at the English Wikipedia for users with en or en-gb as language. It's made by [2]and goes to (well it wont open).thank you--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 13:36, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

(I hate to bring this up again)hi , the "revision history statistics " link is down,its at "External tools" in page histories at the English Wikipedia for users with en or en-gb as language. It's made by MediaWiki:Histlegend and goes to (well it wont open sometimes).thanks--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 11:54, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Ozzie10aaaa: If there is some issue with something, please provide the URL/link that this is about. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 17:22, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/ec/.. (talk) it wont open so how do I tell you--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 17:39, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

  • When I go to MediaWiki:Histlegend and click on the link for Revision history statistics, I get the following error in my console The character encoding of the HTML document was not declared. The document will render with garbled text in some browser configurations if the document contains characters from outside the US-ASCII range. The character encoding of the page must be declared in the document or in the transfer protocol. and a blank page. Hope this help clarify what the complaint here is... — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 18:50, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

what is problem[edit]

https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/ec/,, this link for "revision history statistics" still doesn't work (4 days now), the reason im interested in it is because I can keep track of edits and bytes on the article(s) I work on. I would fix it if I could, and Ive reported it a lot of times here at Village Pump Technical(am I in the wrong place?).--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 16:10, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

See the So... discussion, above, for an exhaustive explanation. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 16:57, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
@Ozzie10aaaa: Repeatedly posting the same comment (I've seen you do it on five user talk: pages and the help desk) isn't going to make the problem go away any sooner. The thread to which TransporterMan refers is directly below this one; responses have also been provided in some of the places where you have previously posted on this matter. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:27, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

thank you its working again--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 22:48, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

So...[edit]

Any plans by the WMF to make their toolserver as reliable as the German one they "upgraded" from? Or are regular outages for tools like edit counter and page stats the new normal? --NeilN talk to me 01:36, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

@NeilN: I've had the same issue of those 2 tools working for a few days, and then being down or extremely slow the next couple of days. I'm not exactly sure if their toolserver will be upgraded; it would be a nice upgrade, though ;) -Fimatic (talk | contribs) 01:39, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
@Fimatic: I would suggest going back to the German toolserver would be an upgrade but that might be seen as churlish :-j --NeilN talk to me 01:49, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
@NeilN: So, it would kind of be like a cross-wiki tool server (hosted on another but used here)? -Fimatic (talk | contribs) 01:51, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
@Fimatic: Ah, you're new here. Welcome. Many tools, including the two specifically listed, used to run on a server in Germany, outside the direct control of the WMF: Wikipedia:Toolserver. The WMF, in its wisdom, declined to fund its continuing operation and in summer 2014 set up a new architecture in-house. The results have been less than stellar... --NeilN talk to me 02:09, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
"Edit count" in user contributions and "Revision history statistics" in page histories are both among the Xtools. Xtools have been on and off for a month. They are hosted at Tool Labs but made by volunteer editors. I don't know the cause of the down periods but many other tools at https://tools.wmflabs.org are currently working. One of the Xtools authors User:Cyberpower678 said at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 131#Xtools / edit counter that GitHub is the best place to report bugs. That means https://github.com/x-Tools/xtools/issues. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:13, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
What PrimeHunter said. If Xtools are not working but other tools on Tool Labs are, then it's probably something to do with Xtools' configuration rather than a problem with Tool Labs itself. But we will have to wait for someone to investigate before we can find out for sure what's happening. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 02:54, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
@NeilN: I'm newer than some people, but not exactly. My first edit with an IP was around 2 years ago (although I've only made a few with my IP), and I've had a past account here which was registered in early August. -Fimatic (talk | contribs) 03:43, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
  • There are no current outage of Tool Labs as a whole, though there was a brief (~4h) outage last week caused by a hardware fault; but my understanding is that the tool's maintainer, Cyberpower678, is currently away from the projects. I took the liberty of restarting the xtools's webservice – which appears to have hung for some reason – but I'm not in a position to debug the setup to diagnose the problem more precisely. — MPelletier (WMF) (talk) 20:51, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
NeilN this looks like typical nostalgia: first of all, closing toolserver was not a decision of wikimedia - it was a decision of the german chapter. as far as i remember, the maintainer of toolserver announce that the current setup (hw, hosting, infrastructure) was EOL, and the foundation decided not to pay for an upgrade (i did not see the projected budget/cost, but it wan an expensive setup). my guess is that the residual cost of wmflabs, being a par of much larger setup, is significantly lower. regarding "how great life was with toolserver" - this is not what i remember. even before the last days, when the setup was crumbling and outages were a daily occurrence, i do not remember toolserver as especially reliable, and it had many outages. it also had this annoying behavior of shutting down accounts of users who did not log in for 6 months, so tools written by people who became inactive would stop working at unpredictable times, and we had to hunt for the editor and beg them to login to their toolserver account, which gave us a "fix" for the next 6 months... (amusing anecdote: iirc, at one point some tools in Brion's account were shut down because he did not login to the toolserver for 6 months...). קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 21:32, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
"EOL" = "end of life". --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 08:23, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

I'll tag along here rather than make a new section...something over a year ago, i noticed a couple of days worth of edits disappeared from the records; i put it down to Toolserver going away. The same thing happened a few days ago (27 October, to be precise), and about 80+ of my edits were (and are) no longer showing in either Xtools or others which presumably access the same data. While it's a bit annoying, a new question arises from it: How, if there are gaps in the database, is there a proper attribution record of everyone who has contributed? Isn't that potential lack of a record contrary to the terms of the licence? Cheers, LindsayHello 12:27, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

The page history on the "View history" tab is where the license should be satisfied. Holes in external tools don't seem like a license problem to me. Such tools could shut down completely at any time without affecting the attribution required by the license. It's possible that some reusers use an external tool for attribution and don't link to the wiki page or its page history. Stable external tools could reduce this problem slightly, but the number of reusers which give no attribution at all is far larger. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:46, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Oh, i see. So, the assorted tools get their data from a different location than the history page does? Fair enough. I wasn't really worried about it, more curious, and you have satisfied that; thank you. Cheers, LindsayHello 23:32, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Last night the edit counter told me it was running 900+ minutes behind, so my edit count for the previous 24 hours was zero. Today (Philippines, UTC+8) edit stats says it is 1500+ minutes late, so my edit count is still zero. Seems like it has got stuck somewhere. Unbuttered parsnip (talk) mytime= Thu 08:49, wikitime= 00:49, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

...so they seem to be working right now. Woohoo! This is irritating beyond belief. We're doing volunteer work here, unpaid labor, and somewhere is a bankaccount where all these donations are coming in, out of which someone should pay someone smart so we can do this work decently. Seriously. SERIOUSLY. I don't care about chapters or organization or whatever. If folks used to do this for free, I thank them from the bottom of my heart. But someone in San Francisco needs to take an executive decision and make this work consistently and well. Drmies (talk) 18:15, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

...and it's not working again. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 14:15, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
... but keep those donations rolling in, folks! Even if they don't contribute directly to the content of Wikipedia, or provide the improvements its contributors have come to rely on. -- llywrch (talk) 00:42, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
Do you think that the communities would appreciate the WMF taking over something that's popular, like X! Tools, or would this be perceived as the WMF encroaching on the volunteers' territory and disrespecting them? What if the WMF decides to re-write it (as volunteers periodically do), but you don't like the new version as well? Would you be able to live with that, in return for (possibly) more reliable maintenance (I say "possibly" because some volunteer devs and tool maintainers have been providing top-quality support for years, so in that case you can't really expect an improvement). What do you think? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:13, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
I'd rather see the WMF just make Toollabs a more stable platform to host on, and let the tool creators maintain their tools. KonveyorBelt 03:19, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
@Konveyor Belt: The bug is probably in Xtools, not Tool Labs itself. The solution to this is for someone to find out whatever is making Xtools fail sporadically and fix it, and once it's fixed it will stay fixed. Tool Labs is actually showing itself to be a pretty reliable platform by not failing every time Xtools does. (And if anyone here likes debugging php/js, the code is on Github.) — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 10:57, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
@Whatamidoing (WMF): I don't know which is more discouraging to think about: that donations to the Foundation do not directly help the volunteers create an encyclopedia & other reference sources, or that many volunteers don't trust the Foundation to actually help them achieve these goals. I would happily ignore the Foundation & its silliness, were it not for the fact it raises millions of dollars which it fritters away on badly-designed & unwanted projects it imposes on unwilling communities, while volunteers like me have to fund the research needed to write & improve content from our own pockets -- which is what the end users come to Wikipedia for, not K-RAD K3WL bells & whistles. -- llywrch (talk) 07:16, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
I haven't spent much time looking at the budget, but I've got the impression that most of it is indeed helping volunteers fulfill educational goals—just not specifically helping established, first-world editors (like you and me) add content to the world's largest reference source. In addition to spending several million dollars just on basic operations (their "internet bill" is a couple million each year by itself), projects like Wikipedia Zero are not free, and they make a few million dollars in grants each year, with an emphasis on the Global South and developing countries. I believe that all of the "engineering and product" expenses amount to less than half the total expenses each year, and some of that work is definitely wanted by very willing communities. This year, they are spending more than a million dollars on making the sites run faster, and I haven't seen anyone complain about that. Note, too, that some projects are not paid for by donations, but by specific grants. The first years of VisualEditor's development were paid for by a grant, even though producing a rich-text editor was one of the top priorities identified by editors at strategy.wiki, and so you might have thought that spending money on it would mean spending money on what editors wanted. (As a side note: VisualEditor's popularity varies significantly by language. About half the editors at the Portuguese Wikipedia are using it on any given day, but it's only a quarter of users at some other languages. I wish that I knew why.)
You are, however, correct that the WMF never pays for content.
I asked this question because some WMF staff know that there are some great tools (or tools that could be great, with a re-write) in a few of the larger projects. Most of them aren't available at smaller projects. One conversation has been whether it would be desirable, from the perspective of the volunteers, to incorporate one or more of those tools into MediaWiki and for the WMF to provide support for it. HotCat has been mentioned as an example. It occurs to me that some users might get more value out of having one or more of the X! Tools supported. But it also occurs to me that if writing and maintaining a tool like that were what I did for fun, then I might not appreciate the WMF taking it over, and, as you say, providing a "revision history search" isn't exactly "directly help[ing] the volunteers create an encyclopedia", so maybe you would see that as just money "fritter[ed] away on…K3WL bells & whistles".
Anyway, if anything's going to happen with this idea, then there will be an opportunity for people to talk about which tools they think are most important, and I'll make sure to post a note here at VPT about it. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:59, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

My guess is xtools has some sort of memory leak that eventually leads to timeouts. Supercount just a little bit less so, eventually giving a response. Judging by what MPelletier (WMF) and Cyberpower678 are saying, a restart seems to fix the problem? Whatamidoing (WMF) if an occasional restart is all that's needed, I wouldn't think the developers would be that offended, especially since they are trying to take an intentional break from the project. Anything beyond that may require a larger discussion on whether the WMF can takeover tools should the loss of the service be a detriment to the project. — MusikAnimal talk 06:19, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Given the history in the foundations deployment of software, and how well it's been received, echo, flow, the loss of the OBoD, I would be opposed to having the foundation take over xTools. Anyone is free to suggest patches on GitHub, to help fix memory leaks, if any. I think there might be too much load on xTools, given the restrictions imposed by tool labs, is causing the load times to increase, and some people try to refresh mid load, increasing memory usage, and eventually crashing the web service. xTools is a highly used tool. I think it's time for it to move to its own instance. As for super count, something I wrote on my own, I don't see memory leaks being an issue, but slow DBs do cause slow load times, which leads to refreshed mid-load, etc. I will do some thorough looking into next week to see what the culprit is.—cyberpower ChatAbsent 14:27, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
Supercount, albeit slow, is an adequate substitute for the regular edit counter, at least so long as there is an expectation that the regular edit counter will be fixed and back up to speed soon. But is there a alternate tool or tools for "Revision history statistics"? I've looked and can't find one. Also, I'm not a coder or database maven so what I'm about to ask may be roll-your-eyes stupid to those of you who are, but would it be possible to write a simple tool which, in the interim, restarts the Xtools every couple of hours? Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 15:27, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
Hedonil wrote a gadget for the web service, called web watcher, which monitors the service of xtools, and did a pretty bang up job, until we all switched to Big Brother, another Labs concoction, that doesn't seem to be reliable. All tools are slow as long as the DB takes forever to deliver the results. Lately, the database has been working slowly and not been keeping up with replication. The WMF Labs staff in charge of those DBs really don't seem inclined to do anything about it, meaning you can expect slow results for a while longer. Supercount and xtools will operate faster if the DB responds as fast as it used to when replication was first introduced to labs. ATM, I wish I was on tool server. At least that seemed to be more stable.—cyberpower ChatAbsent 15:50, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

supercount has pretty large security holes in it. I wouldn't advise anyone to use it. Legoktm (talk) 01:34, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

What do you meany by 'security holes' - apologies if I've missed something somewhere, genuinely curious! Reticulated Spline (tc) 01:58, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Cross-site scripting ones specifically that were reported to the maintainer nearly a month ago that still haven't been patched. Legoktm (talk) 02:36, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
If you haven't noticed, I haven't been very active. But even so, grabbing a the OAuth session cookie of a user OAuthed into the tool, will not get very far, because they need the secret key to get it to work, and the cookie does not save that. That made no sense actually since my tool reads the cookie and all a user has to do is replace their own with the stolen cookie. I advise not using OAuth on the tool for the time being and logging out if you're logged in, per Legoktm.—cyberpower ChatAbsent 13:14, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Valuable tools should be turned into MediaWiki core features or MediaWiki extensions. In my opinion, relying on Wikimedia Labs is a bad idea for the same reason that relying on the Toolserver was a bad idea. It's great for quick scripts and demos and proofs-of-concept, but it simply doesn't have the same quality control and consequently the same level of uptime and performance as the production cluster. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:22, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Less intrusive video player icon[edit]

Reposted from here:[3] Previously, videos could function as stand alone illustrations in addition to being videos, which made them more useful, especially when a thumbnail was manually selected. See for example here[4], where it could show both a famous image, and a video of the event. But for some reason, the player icon has become big and dark, obscuring much of the thumb. I think the previous version was much more useful, for the reason mentioned above. See also here[5], where the icon pretty much destroys the thumbnail.

Perhaps the icon could be moved to one of the corners of the thumbs, instead of smack in the middle? And be smaller, too. Or maybe there could be a parameter for making the icon either dark or light, depending on the thumbnail, so where wouldn't have to be a huge, dark bar around it to make it discernible? Or maybe the play icon could be moved to the caption field? Maybe videos should have their own kind of window, like sounds have, see for example here.[6] A player bar like that, and with the thumb over it, would be much more useful, I think it looked more like this initially, if I recall correctly. FunkMonk (talk) 10:53, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Which problem do you try to solve? That the thumbnail of the video should be more recognizable? And is that more important than helping users to realize that the image displayed is actually not only an image but a video that could be watched? --Malyacko (talk) 11:40, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
If you want to work on this, then please just checkout the mw:TimedMediaHandler code and start fixing it. Discussing it probably won't get us really far. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:44, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
The problem is that the icon as it is now prevents using thumbnails as standalone images. It has worked like that before, so I don't see why it would make it harder for users to play, and I've also proposed several ways it could be clear without obscuring the image. As for changing the code, I thought it would be better to get consensus, and I'm not a programmer. FunkMonk (talk) 11:47, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Before was 4,5 years ago... That's 1/3 the lifespan of the project. As for changing something like this: you need a programmer to do it, and that seems to be the scarcest resource, not wikipedia's ability to have discussions (just my disgruntled opinion :P ). My personal opinion would be a small camera icon inc the corner of the thumbnail and then show a play button when you hover the thumbnail. But that's desktop only, on touch screens, i'd always want to see what I see now. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 16:18, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, what you suggest is good, anything that makes the file more useful will do. The problem is that many don't use video files because they take up so much space and look like total crap on top of that, therefore people use images instead. If the video could be used as an image as well, they would simply be more useful. FunkMonk (talk) 16:56, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Agree that TheDJ's suggestions are good place to start but I think the real roadblock to rectifying this issue goes back to the idea to [re]use the "still image" thumbnail container for "motion video" files to begin with. Again, developing something like that just for "motion video" cases would need some considerable attention from programmers. -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:56, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Seems it was like that before. And reusing what is now used for some auduo files would seem better than the regular image container. FunkMonk (talk) 09:22, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

I just wanted to say I think this is an excellent idea that should probably go in the queue, if possible. I like TheDJ's proposed form factor - small camera icon in the corner with a play button in the center. With touch screens, I feel like the giant play button is really not doing a good job - it completely obscures the thumbnail image, generally essentially requiring you to press the button in order to see a clear image of what's in frame. I think people are generally smart enough to realize that if it has a "Play" button or a camera button in the corner, that's an indicator that this is a thumbnail from a video which will play if you click it. 0x0077BE (talk · contrib) 16:13, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

  • I'll see if I can dredge my PHP knowledge up from where it waits dreaming in the depths of my mind and propose a patch tomorrow. Reticulated Spline (tc) 01:49, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, I'm sure videos will be more widely used as a result. They are quite useful on animal pages, but many don't use them for the reasons outlined above. FunkMonk (talk) 12:39, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
Patch submitted, which will allow us to move the overlay and have it resize automatically for small videos. Reticulated Spline (tc) 23:52, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
Seems (based on a comment at code review) that this would be better handled via CSS locally on en:wp - I'll experiment and then propose the change at MediaWiki_talk:Common.css. Reticulated Spline (tc) 20:10, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Request made on the talk page for common.css. Reticulated Spline (tc) 00:40, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done thanks to the admins and CSS gurus over at the common.css talk page. Reticulated Spline (tc) 20:31, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, looks great now! FunkMonk (talk) 22:34, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Pages not displaying[edit]

A user reports at WP:EAR that some pages such as collard green are not displaying on some devices in mobile view. Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests#Collard Greens article shows no text to anon users on mobile site. I thought it best to mention it here so it can be checked out. -- Diannaa (talk) 16:49, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

To provde a bit more information. I search Google for [collard greens]. That returns a link to a wikipedia article - not a scraper site or anything. I click the link. The page loads, but none of the article text is displayed. There's an imgur link in the above post (I really don't want to fight the captures to repost the link here, sorry). I am using latest version Google Chrome on iOS 7.1.2 on an iPhone 4s. My carrier is a UK carrier GiffGaff, who use O2. My Google Chrome is using the "reduce data usage" under settings -> advanced, which is causig another problem with blocks applied to the caching proxy. 82.132.214.221 (talk) 18:22, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Well, this is a bit odd... It certainly seems to be to do with the MediaWiki mobile view (Minerva) rather than mobile browsers, as you can replicate the issue in Chrome using the dev tools. I also observed the bug in various mobile device emulators (Safari on iOS 7, Android Browser on A4.4/5 and IE Mobile on WP 8.1). The content just isn't returned from the server - the response is a 200 OK, and everything is as it should be, but the main content element is empty! Addendum: It's also unclosed - you get the opening <div id="content" class="content" lang="en" dir="ltr"> but no corresponding closing tag. 18:58, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
What's even more strange, is that you can 'fix' the problem by shoving a query string on the end of the URL. It doesn't matter what, anything will do! For example, this link will display the bug: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collard_greens, whereas this one will not https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collard_greens?what. For those who want to test, you'll probably need to open a new 'private' browser session to prevent data being pulled from your browser cache and polluting the test.
Do you know if any other pages are doing this? Reticulated Spline (tc) 18:47, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
hello and thank you for looking at this. I have noticed it in the past on a few articles but cannot remember what they were. I will post here if I see it again. Gustavail (but logged out) 82.132.214.221 (talk) 19:18, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
Collard greens seems to be working as normal now for me - anyone else care to test? Reticulated Spline (tc) 00:03, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Yes, working for me too. I tested the mobile version of the URL in an incognito browser. Thanks for looking at this. 82.132.239.148 (talk) 11:12, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Further Information please see this previous link of similar behaviour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_131#Minimal_display_in_mobile_view I know that I've seen this behaviour before in different articles. I had considerable difficulty in reporting the collard greens article. I suspect this is an i termittant recurring bug. 82.132.239.204 (talk) 19:56, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Flag mouseovers and links from flags at Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant[edit]

This is a follow on request from "Template:flag|Islamic State" above where greatly appreciated guidance was given by a SiBr4 and Mr. Stradivarius. I was also wondering if it is possible to override the way that links to flag related articles work from Template:Infobox country. I understand that the flag link goes directly to "Flag of (name of article)". Is there anyway to override this?

If it can be worked out please advise on how the flags and links on the main Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant page can give mouse over indications related to "Black Standard" preferably with a reference such as "Black Standard variant" and that the links go directly to this page. The group do not have a unique flag of their own. The flags are set within a use of Template:Infobox country and I've been looking at it a lot and haven't been able to find the code elements that control the caption. I have raised the issue of the currently used name of the flag at User talk:Hedwig in Washington#Naming of the flag used by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant as current the file name is erroneously titled File:Flag of the Islamic State.svg after some incomplete or inaccurate information was given. Hopefully soon the files will be titled as something like "Black Standard variant as adopted by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant" or "Black Standard variant as adopted by ISIL". Thanks for the help. Gregkaye 17:31, 16 November 2014 (UTC) ping also Legacypac

The template code that controls the flag caption is
<td align="center" style="font-size:85%;">{{#ifexist:Flag of {{{linking_name|{{{common_name|{{{name|{{PAGENAME}}}}}}}}}}} |[[Flag of {{{linking_name|{{{common_name|{{{name|{{PAGENAME}}}}}}}}}}} | {{{flag_caption|Flag}}}]] |Flag }}</td>
. This shows there are three "name" parameters that can override the part after "Flag of" in the flag link, the outermost being |linking_name=. The |flag_caption= parameter overrides the link text "Flag". There is currently no way to change the entire link, though one could easily be added. SiBr4 (talk) 21:18, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
SiBr4 Perhaps, instead of inserting it as a flag, it could be inserted as an image with caption. Could this be made possible. It would be good to disable the mouseover on the image so that it displays the file name as normal. Gregkaye 09:04, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
The mouseover text uses the same "Flag of name" formula the flag link uses, again without an option to change or omit it. To be able to completely customize the flag image and caption, it could be moved to an |other_symbol= field like this:
|other_symbol = [[File:Flag of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant.svg|border|125px|Black Standard variant]]
|other_symbol_type = [[Black Standard]] variant

If set this field appears further down the infobox, after the motto and anthem. Alternatively the infobox template could be changed to add more options for the flag. SiBr4 (talk) 15:07, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
الدولة الإسلامية في العراق والشام  (Arabic)
Black Standard as adopted by the Islamic State or Iraq and the Levant
Flag Emblem
Status Unrecognized state
Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
الدولة الإسلامية في العراق والشام  (Arabic)
Motto: باقية وتتمدد (Arabic)
Anthem: Ummatī, qad lāha fajrun
Black Standard variant
Black Standard variant adopted by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
Status Unrecognized state
Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
الدولة الإسلامية في العراق والشام  (Arabic)
Black Standard as adopted by the Islamic State or Iraq and the Levant
Black Standard variant Emblem
Status Unrecognized state

SiBr4, This may be causing trouble. I have added a cut down version of the infobox as is followed by a cut down version of infobox with the addition of the suggested code. I'm not sure how possible it is but, if practical, it would be great to get a set up like in the existing infobox but with the other mouse over info.

Gregkaye 18:00, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

For some reason your pings don't work anymore. The one earlier in this section didn't either.
I could add some parameters for the flag caption and mouseover text, though what should they be called? |flag_caption= is already in existence and use for the link text in the caption. SiBr4 (talk) 19:47, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
SiBr4 That would be great :)
Mouseover preferrably: Black Standard variant as adopted by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant
label preferably: Black Standard variant
Gregkaye 23:00, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
That wasn't exactly what I meant. Anyway I added a |flag_mouseover= parameter to the template as Template:Infobox country/sandbox2. In the sandbox |flag_caption= currently replaces the entire flag link if it itself contains a link; don't know if that really makes sense but it works here. SiBr4 (talk) 09:33, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks SiBr4 but something is going wrong. I placed the text exactly as you wrote it firstly as a replacement of the original flag text in is previous place in the infobox and then by moving the text to the end of the infobox information. Either way I got a mouseover result that still read "Flag of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant" and a caption that read "[[Flag of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant | Black Standard variant]]

I am not sure if content from other parts of the article are interferring. The article also uses "Infobox war faction" and imports template:History of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. Is there any chance that you could install the text in place. It looks really great on this page but I am failing to get it fixed in context. Thanks. Gregkaye 16:35, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

The mouseover tooltip is generated differently in different browsers: if it's set up to work properly in e.g. Google Chrome, it might not work quite the same in Internet Explorer. Then there are things like WP:POPUPS which are known to interfere with mouseover. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:15, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
More likely it's because I made the change in a sandbox; I haven't changed the actual infobox (yet). SiBr4 (talk) 20:01, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Proposal: enable opt-in two-factor authentication[edit]

Two-factor authentication has become popular in the last few years as a number of big online service providers like Google, Facebook, Evernote, Dropbox and Apple's iCloud have enabled it to increase the security of user accounts. It makes it so that when you login you have to type in a one-time password that is generated, usually by an application installed on a mobile device. There are two extensions for MediaWiki available: OATHAuth and TwoFactorAuthentication that could provide two-factor authentication for users of Wikimedia wikis including Wikipedia.

I propose something like this: to increase user account security (especially for administrators, functionaries and others with elevated user rights), we ask the Wikimedia Foundation to consider installing an optional TOTP-based two-factor authentication solution on English Wikipedia (and other Wikimedia Foundation wikis subject to further community consultation) if an implementation can be found that passes reasonable security auditing and user testing and integrates reasonably with CentralAuth. Users would not be required to use two-factor authentication, and a reasonable recovery process should be instituted.

  • Support as proposer. —Tom Morris (talk) 14:58, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. It would be nice if it had Google Authenticator support, though I don't know how the backend verification works on that, and if you have to query Google servers in order to verify the time-based token, I wouldn't use it. 0x0077BE (talk · contrib) 15:01, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
    0x0077BE: Google Authenticator is a popular implementation of TOTP, but Google Authenticator does not (as far as I know) contact Google's servers when you authenticate (only way to be sure would be to use it and monitor traffic from the device to see). You can use it when your device is offline. I personally use Authy on iPhone but there are a variety of implementations including Red Hat's open source FreeOTP. There's a whole list of implementations on this article: Time-based One-time Password Algorithm. There may be broken (intentionally or not) implementations of TOTP, but it is up to the user which TOTP client they use. —Tom Morris (talk) 15:07, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, I know that the Authenticator doesn't contact the servers, but I don't really know much about the back-end on the server side. If Wikipedia can generate Authenticator-compatible tokens on their own servers, then I'd be in favor of that, but if Wikipedia has to contact Google to get a token, I wouldn't use it. I imagine that no contact to Google will be necessary, since that would presumably significantly complicate the security by adding unnecessary connections that need to be secured. If Authenticator is just an implementation of a specific protocol (I had always thought of TOTP as referring to the class of time-based token generators, not a specific algorithm, but I never looked into it), then obviously it would be possible to have Authenticator support with no Google involvement. 0x0077BE (talk · contrib) 15:18, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
0x0077BE: Nope, the WMF wouldn't have to contact Google's servers (or anybody else's) to generate the keys. —Tom Morris (talk) 15:26, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose for now. I like the idea, but my experience with OATHAuth on wikitech has been less than ideal. I've gotten locked out of my account more than once and I fear others will accidentally do the same. I'd like to see improvements to these extensions before using them wider. ^demon[omg plz] 15:24, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
    @^demon: Do you remember what led to you being locked out? Jackmcbarn (talk) 03:36, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
    Wiped my phone, got a new phone. Had lost my recovery key thingie. ^demon[omg plz] 18:58, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
    Yeah, it should probably provide more recovery options (SMS, email, etc.), and the UI of both extensions aren't exactly user-friendly IMO. Zhaofeng Li [talk... contribs...] 22:41, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Support in principle depending on sufficient and positive technical and user review of any implementation. -- KTC (talk) 15:57, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose: Both of these extensions seem to be at an early stage in development. Also, there is another much more serious reason not to enable them. That reason is that OATHauth will not work on wikipedia, as wikipedia does use MariaDB, and OATHauth only has support for MySQL, as can be seen in bugzilla:65658. I would not be surprised if the same applies to TwoFactorAuthentication as it is based on the former.--Snaevar (talk) 16:07, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
    Uhh, MariaDB is basically MySQL. Legoktm (talk) 17:04, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
    What Legoktm said. The bug referred to an issue with running on Postgresql. Postgres is very different from MySQL. MariaDB is not. —Tom Morris (talk) 17:10, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Question: I would like the proposer to provide an explanation in a reliable source of the benefits of two-factor authentication. In particular, since this is to be an opt-in and most who opt-in will probably be using good security practices, how will this benefit the user who uses an encrypted connection, does not use the same password on all his/her accounts, and doesn't keep the password posted on a bulletin board next to the computer? Jc3s5h (talk) 17:15, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Using two-factor authentication is part of good security practices, and I don't think it's true that someone who otherwise uses good security will be immune to attacks. I imagine many people who would enable this do not disable Javascript and other scripting by default, making them immune to many zero-day attacks which could secretly harvest passwords. Additionally they may not be sufficiently careful about not logging in from potentially compromised terminals (or indeed they wish to be able to log in from potentially compromised terminals without allowing replay attacks) - both of which are attacks that could be mitigated by a TOTP or other two-factor authentication system. 0x0077BE (talk · contrib) 17:47, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Basically what 0x0077BE said. TOTP-based two-factor auth is a tool that a security-conscious user can add to their arsenal. You can't use it for every website, because not every website has it deployed. But it is worth enabling on key security assets—that is, accounts where you need enhanced security. We like to pretend that adminship is no big deal, but the ability to hand out blocks and the ability to view deleted content are important things that are entrusted to administrators. To me, anyway, though I've made some mistakes in the past, I try hard to go about doing my admin tasks in a trustworthy and responsible way. Having the ability to make my Wikipedia account as secure as, say, my Facebook account would be quite nice. —Tom Morris (talk) 21:48, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Support The WMF uses this now on Wikitech, so we know there's no big problems. Jackmcbarn (talk) 03:35, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Template "not rendering correctly"[edit]

Main case page (Talk) — Evidence (Talk) — Workshop (Talk) — Proposed decision (Talk)

Target dates: Opened 3 Oct • Evidence closes 25 Oct • Workshop closes 1 Nov • Proposed decision posted 8 Nov

Case clerks: Ks0stm (Talk) & Penwhale (Talk)Drafting arbitrators: Worm That Turned (Talk) & GorillaWarfare (Talk) & Newyorkbrad (Talk)

I have been told that the code at {{Casenav/sandbox}} "does not render correctly" but no details have been supplied.

{{Casenav/sandbox}} is a fix for {{Casenav}}, which has a parameter case name = which is not fully implemented - shortcut, schedule and staff are not working.


The comparison between the two is at {{Casenav/testcases}}, where you can see with a case name set, the sandbox version works correctly, the live version doesn't. (Without a case name both break, because it is not an arbitration case page.)

The same comparison has been on the talk page of the template Template talk:Casenav for 14 days and no-one has identified any problems.

I have also tested the sandbox template with "preview" on 17 arbitration case pages, and have seen no issues. I have even tab-switched between the livepage and the preview, I can still see no difference.

Can someone point me in the direction of the error?

All the best: Rich Farmbrough02:33, 18 November 2014 (UTC).

What was the issue (as I noticed the change was reverted)? Also, the main template uses a number of subtemplates. May be the problem is in them? Ruslik_Zero 03:18, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
I don't know what the issue was, other than "box now renders inconsistently" the edit summary of the reverter. I left a question, but they did not answer. All the best: Rich Farmbrough04:25, 18 November 2014 (UTC).
Where did you leave the question? I couldn't see it. I suggest you leave it on the template talk page. If there is no response within a week, try {{editprotected}}. It's not the first time I have seen these ownership issues with ARBCOM-related stuff and it's disappointing to see it again. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:37, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
I left the question on the talk page of the editor who reverted. I have asked the Clerkes also, I will take your advice and add a question on the talk page of the template. The ownership issues I will deal with later, but thanks for confirming it's not just me seeing them. All the best: Rich Farmbrough00:10, 20 November 2014 (UTC).
  • I've gone through and made it HTML5 compliant, in case it was a bad piece of code that was causing the issue. It seems to be rendering find for me on a Win7 machine in the latest Firefox and also on my android phone with Firefox. I'd be happy to fix any issues, but I'll need more details as to what appears to be not rendering correctly for others. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 00:43, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Chrome vs. Firefox Wikipedia rendering[edit]

Chrome vs. Firefox Wikipedia rendering

I don't know if it's a MediaWiki bug or just Wikipedia, but it's time to code same appearance for major browsers like Firefox, Chrome and Internet Explorer. There are some bugs:

  • different font sizes
  • white-space break doesn't work in Chrome in Infobox

--Rezonansowy (talk | contribs) 13:11, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

  1. Actually, it's a different font; Firefox seems to use Verdana as default sans-serif; browser setting.
  2. The wider infobox is caused by the URL at the bottom of the infobox; Firefox handles this better.
Different browsers will always handle stuff slightly differently. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 14:36, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
You could add "word-break: break-word;" to either the infobox table cell containing links, or to the Module:URL. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 16:56, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
That will get you ugly breaks like "pd<break>f_links". How about a descriptive link instead? -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 19:46, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
And we should also set default font for Wikipedia (it could be changed via common.css). Please support me, Chrome users should see the same thing as the others. --Rezonansowy (talk | contribs) 17:12, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
Remember Typography refresh? We tried setting a font... it did not go to well. As far as I can see, Chrome uses the same fonts as the "other" browsers (on Windows at least). -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 19:46, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
I'm reminded of <http://dowebsitesneedtolookexactlythesameineverybrowser.com/>. :-) --MZMcBride (talk) 05:25, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Just fix this word-break bug and will be ok. --Rezonansowy (talk | contribs) 12:15, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Hi. Is it possible to tweak Module:URL to emit zero-width non-joiner after ".", "/" and "_"? Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 01:55, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Is no one willing to comment on this suggestion? May I take this instance of silence as consensus and implement it? Redrose64, I thought you said you were watching this discussion. Can I have your opinion on this please? Codename Lisa (talk) 02:36, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
As I remarked at Template talk:Infobox#Rendering issue, I have indeed been watching this discussion, but as I also noted there, I see no clear indication of a solution which will not break other uses. I need to see at the very least a firm proposal for a change, and a demonstration of that change (see WP:TESTCASES). If part or all of the proposed solution involves a change to a module (whether that be Module:URL, Module:Infobox or another), I'm not going to implement it: I very rarely edit modules, mainly because as an experienced computer programmer, I know well enough not to alter code that I do not understand. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:39, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Weird user page view stats[edit]

There are a number of user pages (all?) getting anomalous view stats in the last few days. [7][8][9][10][11][12]. I could be wrong, but the size of the spike seems to corrolate with the number of page watchers or maybe edit count. No big deal. Just curious if anyone knows what's going on. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 13:17, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Substituting complex templates[edit]

The template Subst:itution I made in this edit left behind a load of conditional statement markup and other crud. Is there a way to substitute templates, which doesn't do that? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:30, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

As far as I know, nothing except manual action. But there is quite a lot I don't know, and agree some sort of deep/recursive substitution mechanism would be useful, so I'm listening along. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 16:33, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
In the template change all the {{#if: to {{{{{|safesubst:}}}#if: and do something similar for #switch as well and then when you subst, it will be neater. -- WOSlinker (talk) 16:40, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
If you're willing to do some copying and pasting, then you can use Special:ExpandTemplates. If not, you have to change the template code; you need to add {{{|safesubst:}}} or <includeonly>safesubst:</includeonly> to the start of every template and parser function (anything with double curly braces). — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 21:55, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Thank you, but that leaves me with a first line of <table class="infobox geography vcard" style="width:22em;width:23em">, rather tan the desired {{Infobox. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:59, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
Also note that if the template you are subst:ing uses other templates, you may have to subst, save, subst, save, repeat until there are no more sub templates and parser functions. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 22:27, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:59, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Can not log in on AT&T[edit]

See bugzilla report. Long story short, I've eliminated all possibilities on my end, and some other AT&T subscribers in South Carolina are lagging too. I can also no longer log back into bugzilla, but attempting to log in from the main page, it takes:

  • 3 second before displaying an error, reloading takes an additional 7 seconds,
  • 10 minutes to load "load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=ext.uls.nojs|ext.visualEditor.viewPageTarget.noscript|ext.wikihiero,wikimediaBadonly=styles&skin=vector&*"
  • 46 seconds to load "load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&skin=vector&*"
  • 2 seconds to load "load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery.makeCollapsible|mediawiki.special.userlogin.common.js&skin=vector&version=20141119T150924Z&*"
  • 0.6 seconds to load "checkLoggedIn?type=script&wikiid=enwiki&proto=https&return=1&returnTo=Main+Page"

The log in page has loaded incorrectly as well, displaying only text and hyperlinks, and the login field. I can now only access Wikimedia based sites from my Sprint phone, which has a crappy keyboard, so if someone could relay this to the Bugzilla report, I'd be greatful. Ian.thomson (talk) 16:38, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Sweet lord, we're playing the "go complain at the other desk" game today aren't we? Others may (hopefully) still be able to help you here, but I'd also like to transfer you through to #wikimedia-tech connect, especially since you indicate you aren't the only person affected. Terribly sorry about sending you all kinds of different places. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 17:00, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Attempts to do so only get the message "irc.freenode.net: Terminated". Ian.thomson (talk) 17:14, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
It's stopped locking up, but it's still lagging (this site and bugzilla.wikimedia, but not non-Wikimedia sites). It must be a problem with AT&T handling Wikimedia sites in South Carolina. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:30, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Wait, no, it's starting to lag to the point of locking up again. I can post if I restart my browser after every post and go straight to where I'm making the post. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:39, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

"Enbolding" or "normalising" parameter info in infobox country[edit]

Administrative center Ar-Raqqah, Syria (de facto capital)
Largest city Mosul, Iraq

I have another question related to the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. Sorry about this but the situation is made tricky as we have a group in this case with no legitimacy with articles that use Wikipedia facilities that are relevantly used in connection to legitimate groups. sigh.

As a group with no legal or recognised right to territory it cannot have a capital. The problem is that Administration center gets presented as normal while Largest city as following gets presented as bold.

Is it possible to get Administration center to be presented as bold or, as a second option, to get Largest city to be presented as normal?

Thanks Gregkaye 17:10, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Yup - {{Infobox country}} has a capital_type parameter. You can assign an arbitrary string to it, and that gets used in place of Capital in the infobox. Reticulated Spline (tc) 21:29, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Reticulated Spline Face-smile.svg Thank you Gregkaye 03:39, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Reference wrapping to the next line[edit]

Depending on how a screen is set, a reference may wrap to the next line, which looks awkward and strange. See Reference 41 from the end of the paragraph in this screenshot File:Screenshot_showing_ref_wrap.jpg from Philae (spacecraft). There is no space between "November." and the start of the reference. Is there a way to keep this from happening? Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 01:23, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

@Bubba73: What browser are you using? For me, In Firefox and IE9 on Win7, the reference always appeared on the same line as the preceding word and full stop. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 01:55, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
I'm using IE11 on Windows 8.1. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 02:57, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
Couldn't help but chime after trying to reproduce the same effect using the same Philae (spacecraft) article earlier with no luck and now see we happen to have the same setup. Fiddled with the basic IE11 font families & browser widths but no matter what I tried, the point where it decided to wrap was never after the period and opening bracket of the ref [like in the pic above] but seemed to always happen between the word "at" and the 00:36 time stamp that followed.

Seems like a css thing to me but I'm not up on the latest dealing with inline elements & no-break-before attributes to be honest. -- George Orwell III (talk) 03:38, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

For me the problem goes away if I make the text larger or smaller. But then it might happen somewhere else. I think I've seen it elsewhere. I think I have my Windows font size set at 125%, if that could matter. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 03:57, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
This is one of those things that has come up previously; there's something in the archives of this page (such as Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 125#Superscript numbers are going onto the next line of text). The point at which wrapping occurs (and the decision to wrap) varies a great deal. Factors that influence it (some of which were mantioned above) include: physical screen resolution; operating system; installed fonts; browser; window sizing; zoom level; style sheets; page layout. The only ones we can exercise any control over are the last two; and trying to get it "right" for one user may well get it "wrong" for others. We try to satisfy the majority, but can never achieve universal success. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:35, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
Help:Reference display customization has two methods for resolving this. Looks like IE 8+ should support the before pseudo-element.[13] --  Gadget850 talk 13:22, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
It seems to me that a simple rule "if there is no space, don't break" would be an easy solution. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 18:16, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Would {{zwj}}, something I found recently, be a red herring here..? Sardanaphalus (talk) 17:42, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
  • {{Zwj}} is as good as anything for a workround. I have used {{Nowrap}} on the article to stop "15 November" from being broken. I don't think we can insert zero-width-joiners between every "." and "<ref>", so the general solution will rely on making the bug reproducible and raising a bug. All the best: Rich Farmbrough22:16, 22 November 2014 (UTC).
  • Note that in the two screenshots, the references with the problem are #41, but they are now different references. The problem couldn't have anything to do with the number 41, could it? Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 03:14, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
  • I'm no expert, but I doubt it. Per Redrose64 above, this looks like one of those "Varies according to the browser, its version, the phase of the Moon..." Sardanaphalus (talk) 09:52, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

An "Allegiance to" parameter in Template:Infobox war faction[edit]

Sorry but this is another question relating to the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. It relates to groups like Ansar Bait al-Maqdis that have declared allegiance to ISIL but which are marked as being part of the group which seems to be an overstatement of the fact but they are still more than allies. Can something be added such as "Allegiance to"? Thanks Gregkaye 07:22, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Is there no way round this? If not I may need to find an alternate template. Gregkaye 10:53, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
It'd be easy enough to add something like "Affiliation" as an option. Does that sound like it would work? If so then ping me and I'll add it to the infobox code. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 11:11, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) TY, its a definite imprvovement and better than things stand but the situarion is of a very specific Arabic promise being made. "Allegiance to" would be more accurate. I am sure that Affiliation might be relevant for other groups in other situations. Gregkaye 12:39, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done, use | allegianceto = . Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 13:43, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Face-smile.svg Thank you Chris, you're a star. This is a genuine help and much appreciated, Gregkaye 18:42, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Really strange bug: Missing initial letter H[edit]

Today I came across a really weird bug. On all articles that start with the letter H, the H in the title is missing. Its place is empty instead. This happens in all browsers I've tested on my computer, but not on my mobile phone or my colleagues' computers. Does anyone know why this is happening?


Wikipedia title letter H bug.png


--Shandristhe azylean 08:25, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm not technical but like your colleagues, np here. I tried on Windows 7 to successfully load Hippopotamus onto Explorer 11. Chrome38.02125.111 (2014), and a 2014 version of Firefox. Gregkaye 10:23, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
@Shandris: Try running a virus checker. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:45, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
That's refreshingly strange. Something is "wonky", probably with either your system, or your account. Could you check if it happens both when logged in and logged out? If it only happens logged in, it has something to do with your personal stylesheets/js, otherwise, something with your system. We can try and minimize from there. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 11:48, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
Could you save a copy of one of the pages on which you see the oddity (File > Save page as in most browsers) and upload it somewhere? Copying and pasting the raw HTML from within the file into something like PasteBin would be ideal. Reticulated Spline (tc) 12:18, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
I've done some investigating and it seems to have something to do with the font that is used for titles in Wikipedia - Linux Libertine. Strange though that it only occurs on my computer, regardless of the browser I'm using. @Redrose64 I don't think it has to do with a virus, my computer runs just fine. --Shandristhe azylean 12:24, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps your computer has simply run out of "H"s in that font! More seriously I doubt it is virus related, though your computer will usually appear to run "just fine" even with several dozen viruses.
If you install/uninstall that font does the problem go away? All the best: Rich Farmbrough15:00, 20 November 2014 (UTC).
There are many computer viruses; the number passed 1000 more than twenty years ago. Their effects are varied; some target just one kind of program, others look for data to corrupt. It might be that one has decided to hook itself into the page renderer of your browser, where it look for <h1>...</h1> elements where the first character is "H" and munges those. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:08, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
Linux Libertine is the first font that we have defined for h1 elements. If it is installed on your computer, then that is the font that is used to render. If it's not, it takes the next font in line, which is Georgia. IMO the easiest way to check which font is actually used is in chrome, inspect element on the title element, then on the pane on the bottom right selected computed, and scroll all the way down to "Rendered fonts". That will show the font your browser is actually using to display. If that is Linux Libertine, and you're not using that font for anything else, I recommand uninstalling it; apparently there is brokenness there. If you remember where you got that font, it would be good to know. I'd like to be able to reproduce, and file a bug where the actual bug is (probably the font packaging, but I can't say for sure). Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 15:46, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
That is Georgia (no need to test). My first thought is that perhaps your Georgia font is corrupt, or is not rendered correctly. Is this Windows 7? It has a component called DirectWrite, which may have bugs. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 16:21, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
I've never been good at Optical Font recognition, thanks for saving the OP the trouble. Shandris, does the capital H disappear in all h1 elements, or just on the first one (you could check on my user page, which by fortuitous accident has one of those in it). Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 16:46, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Can you, in FireFox or Chrome, right click the element, inspect the element, and then copy the entire <h1>...</h1> tag? Also, can you take a screenshot of the below section, uncollapsed, which will help us troubleshoot further:
I expect that many of them will see no change whatsoever, but it will be useful to me to see which ones seem to be affected. Also, as a final lighter note for now, I'm guessing your computer has been infected by a dentist which is taking up all your H's with the computer trying to keep her happy saying AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 16:42, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

The = H1 = at the top of this collapsible section screws the TOC for the page. All of the demonstration headings in this collapsible section will confuse archiving bots: they'll take the part before, possibly the part after, but will leave the middle bit behind. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:51, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I've moved the relevant markup to a sub page. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:04, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
I've solved the problem! It seems my Georgia font was corrupt. Also, when I opened the TTF file, all letters seemed to be in Arial font style. I compared my font file with my colleagues and both dates and file size were the same, even to the byte. Anyway, he sent me his version which I replaced with my corrupted and now I can see my capital H's again! Thanks everyone who contributed with advice. --Shandristhe azylean 09:57, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Transclusion[edit]

A now banned editor has set up a transclusion on the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant page and consensus is that people want its length changed.

The article text that anchors (my word) the transclusion is {{:Timeline of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant events}} but when I looked up Template:Timeline of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant events all I got was an option to create a page. I hope there are no more transclusions for me to have to deal with but would appreciate instructions as to how to change the settings on this one. It is currently set to display 15 days worth of text. Looking at developments I'd aim for 5 days if its easily changeable. Otherwise 7 days covers the previous decision. Also the timeline article is a currently in request move procedure so I will also need to make changes if a change happens.

related discussion: Talk:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant#Propose scrapping timeline from main article

Thanks Gregkaye 13:22, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

A colon right after the opening curly brackets ({{:...) indicates that not a template but a mainspace page is being transcluded. The code {{:Timeline of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant events}} does not transclude Template:Timeline of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant events, but the article Timeline of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant events. See WP:TRANS#Basic syntax point 2. SiBr4 (talk) 13:32, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Where there is a colon such as in {{:Timeline of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant events}} then it transcludes the article, in this case Timeline of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant events. That article has content wrapped in <onlyinclude>...</onlyinclude>, so only that content is transcluded. A more versatile way to do this is with labeled section transclusion. --  Gadget850 talk 13:37, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
SiBr4, Gadget850 Face-smile.svg Thank you I will raise all this at the ISIL page. Resolved nicely! Face-smile.svg Gregkaye 16:19, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Extra tab for merge pages[edit]

I would like to add a tab (in Monobook skin) for the merge page (the url would be https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:MergeHistory&target={{urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}) before the Twinkle tabs. How can I do it? (I assume it would be some relatively simple javascript, but I don't know.) עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 14:22, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

@Od Mishehu:
mw.util.addPortletLink('p-cactions', mw.config.get('wgScriptPath') + '/index.php?title=Special:MergeHistory&target=' + encodeURIComponent(mw.config.get('wgRelevantPageName')), 'Merge history');
Jackmcbarn (talk) 16:35, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
I tried, but it didn't work. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 19:14, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
@Od Mishehu: It works for me (in Monobook). Does the link not appear at all, or does it appear but not work? Jackmcbarn (talk) 01:42, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

No merge tab.png

It doesn't appear at all. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 04:48, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Try putting JSconfig.keys['HotCatMinorSingleChanges'] = true; at the end of the file. It seems to prevent lots of other links from showing too. Cenarium (talk) 09:44, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Thank you, Cenarium, the tab is there now. How do I put it before the Twinkle tabs? עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 12:15, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't know. I'm not using TW, I'd like it only for user talk warnings. Cenarium (talk) 13:47, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Can the preview image of an ogv file be altered?[edit]

Take a look at File:20090124 WeeklyAddress.ogv, which catches the President in an awkward eyes-closed image. Is there any way to change or choose what frame of the file is chosen for the preview image? Tarc (talk) 20:09, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Which president? All the best: Rich Farmbrough20:32, 20 November 2014 (UTC).
The President of Kenya. --NE2 23:08, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
Any non-snarky input? Tarc (talk) 20:48, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
There are images such as one perhaps you can figure out how to display it and have a click-on-this link take you to the ogv. I'm not sure if MV has messed up clickable images. All the best: Rich Farmbrough22:17, 20 November 2014 (UTC).
  • There's of course |thumbtime=0:00| for articles, but don't know what would work for the file page itself. I changed the Obama page.[14] Feel free to tweak further. FunkMonk (talk) 22:23, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
Yes, that will work the articles at least, thanks. Tarc (talk) 17:26, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

502 Bad Gateway: nginx/1.1.19[edit]

By just clicking on a wikilink to Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Northamerica1000_2, I just got a "502 Bad Gateway" error with an error page that says "nginx/1.1.19". I've seen this sporadically recently but have generally ignored them. The error is not reproducible and clicking the same link moments later worked fine. A web search suggests that this "nginx/1.1.19" error could be related to Windows servers having a hex formatting problem. Anybody know what steps I can do next time I encounter this problem to try to make a better error report? Jason Quinn (talk) 21:50, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Cirrus search[edit]

I am having a lot of trouble with searching:

An error has occurred while searching: Search is currently too busy. Please try again later.

Maybe this needs to be backed out? All the best: Rich Farmbrough22:10, 20 November 2014 (UTC).

I am seeing the pool queue getting a little filled with traffic. The nice thing about these errors is that they're transient and tend to only come in waves...you can always try again shortly as the message says. All that being said, the error's not nice and we can probably adjust the queue size further (fwiw, this used to happen with MWSearch too, I'm surprised you haven't seen it before considering how common it is/was). BZ/Phabricator are down right now for migration but I'll get a task filed Monday for looking at this further. ^demon[omg plz] 17:40, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
I had a look at this as well just now. The good news is that the problem comes in waves and the wave you saw was the worst one. The bad news is that its happening at all. I see a spike in load right before you posted this message but nothing interesting in the logs. The load spike was long enough ago that I've lost precision on how long it was but if I had to guess it'd coincide with us serving these errors from 22:06 to 22:09 UTC. I don't _think_ this is a rollback thing because we're used to seeing these from the old system as well. Admittedly the old search produced a constant chatter of these while the new one is silent and save for a few complaints and one *huge* spike right before you reported this. The current plan is to segment the prefix searches from the full text searches sometime early next week. When this happens next this'll let us figure out if the spike is caused by one particular flavor of search and it'll preserve the other flavors in the process. NEverett (WMF) (talk) 18:23, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Oooh! I just tracked the spike that you saw down to a super duper troll search. I'll see if I can setup some more defences for it. You'd be amazed at what people try and search for.... NEverett (WMF) (talk) 18:27, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
When was Cirrus implemented? I had some other search bugs that I didn't log, but I might be able to recreate if I have reason to think they are relevant to the current search engine. All the best: Rich Farmbrough22:21, 22 November 2014 (UTC).
It's been under active development for the last year and a half; it was deployed as the default for English Wikipedia just the other day on the 19th. The old search engine is still accessible by appending &srbackend=LuceneSearch to your Special:Search or API queries (great for comparing to see if bugs still exist or have been added :)) ^demon[omg plz] 01:49, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Arabic & Hebrew style names in Bio intros[edit]

Is there a method to editing around Arabic & Hebrew names in opening paragraphs of bio articles, without one's edits going crazy? For example, when trying to type in 1925, the 19 ends up infront of the Arabic and/or Hebrew name. GoodDay (talk) 00:24, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Does MOS:RTL solve your problem? If not then please link a specific article and say what you try to do in it. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:48, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
In my experience it's just a pain in the butt to work with, but you can get there in the end. I know that's not a "howto" but consider it gentle encouragement. All the best: Rich Farmbrough01:01, 21 November 2014 (UTC).
Another alternative is to wrap the Arabic or any rtl language for that matter in <bdi>...</bdi>, html expressly designed to isolate rtl from ltr. Consider using the lang="xx" where "xx" is the ISO639-1 language code (ar for Arabic, he for Hebrew, etc).
Trappist the monk (talk) 01:11, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
When writing with RTL text, I tend to do the following. "John Doe (rtl), born 1925, is a..." With this done, delete rtl and copy/paste the RTL name into the parentheses. Alternately, you could just write the parentheses, write the name inside, and delete the parentheses. Either method lets the parentheses serve as a boundary between RTL and LTR. Nyttend (talk) 01:14, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
A tad confusing. Kinda like when the 'edit line' goes in the opposite direction when ran across these Arabic/Hebrew names. GoodDay (talk) 01:18, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
{{lang-ar}} includes the the left-to-right mark. --  Gadget850 talk 15:31, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Table covering up text[edit]

There's something wrong with Maria_Theresa, and I haven't located the problem.

Section 7.1 (aka Issue, if you don't have section numbering) covers up several sections. The tail end of section 12 is visible, then 13 (Ancestry)

It looks to me like the are the close div tags and only two open, but I tried removing one of the close div tags, and that didn't do much.

I note the Hide button on the table doesn't seem to do anything.

I've looked at it on a desktop in Chrome and Mozilla, same issue.

Any thoughts?--S Philbrick(Talk) 17:54, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

I fixed it. For future reference: WP:NAVFRAME (but I'll note that NavFrame is slightly abused here). -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 19:46, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
Thank-you, looks good. I'll pass them information on to the reader who alerted us.--S Philbrick(Talk) 21:28, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Citation formatting RfC[edit]

FYI: Pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere.

Please see Talk:Aspromonte goat#RFC on citation formatting for an RfC about the scope of WP:CITEVAR and whether it can be used to prevent changes to underlying technical coding of reference citations, including correct XML, and changing problematic ref IDs.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  19:48, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Media Viewer Update: Last Improvements[edit]

Media Viewer now shows captions right below the images.

Hi folks: we're happy to let you know that our multimedia team has completed all the requested 'must-have' improvements to Media Viewer for this release, based on community feedback.

Here are the new features that we developed and released on all Wikipedias and sister projects:

These improvements are now live on all Wikimedia-hosted sites. You can try them out on this 'Featured pictures' page.

These features are based on the most frequent requests from our recent community consultation and ongoing user research. We are now conducting a final round of usability research to confirm that they provide a better experience for readers and casual editors, the primary target users for Media Viewer.

Many thanks to all the community members who suggested these improvements! Your feedback was invaluable and helped us build a better product together. :)

Please let us know what you think on this Media Viewer talk page. We will post one more update in December, to share our research findings. Best regards. Fabrice Florin (WMF) (talk) 02:44, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Wikimedia technology blog[edit]

So, I was just reading the Wikimedia technology blog, and it struck me that it would be good to have a bot or something post a note here on VPT when there is a new post written. It seems to me that a lot of the editors that read this page would be interested in what the technology blog has to say, but at the moment I don't imagine that many are aware of it, and that even less remember to check back for updates. Is there an easy way that we can get notifications of new posts here? — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 15:11, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

👍 Like A bot that periodically makes a note of new posts here in batches will work. Alternatively, we can integrate it into the weekly Tech News. Zhaofeng Li [talk... contribs...] 04:13, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Page up/page down and Home/End problem with section anchors[edit]

Looking at, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_National_Archives_(United_Kingdom)#Forgeries_discovered_in_2005 there are that page up can act as page down/end, and page down can act as page up. There is an order effect, so it is possible to be "trapped" in the top part or bottom part of the page. Home and End are at best apparently unresponsive (moving the caret to the beginning an end of "This page was last modified on 22 November 2014 at 16:07." or "Navigation" in the side bar.or other lines on the page) or unpredictable.

All the best: Rich Farmbrough16:21, 22 November 2014 (UTC).

The effect of navigation keys is controlled by your browser and not Wikipedia. In my Firefox, the keys work as expected on that page. If a control key like Shift/Ctrl/Alt is pressed or your computer registers it as pressed for some reason then it may affect navigation keys but the result depends on your browser. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:06, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Proposal to add "report technical issue" to Wikipedia:Contact us[edit]

Does Wikipedia have a place for users to report bugs? (eg, a WMF email address?) Having so would seem like a commensense move to let readers report issues they are having. I was surprised that this is not present on Wikipedia:Contact us. If there's an email address, can another user point it out? Otherwise I think it would be quite useful to have one. --Tom (LT) (talk) 21:00, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

You can report Wikipedia bugs on this page (if the issue is specific to our templates, modules, etc.), or at Phabricator (if it is related to the server software). If unsure, the best place to post is this page - if the bug report should have been placed in Phabricator, someone else will point you in the right direction (or even do it for you).
Note that, as I write this, Phabricator is down for maintenance; it will most likely be restored on Monday.
I would support adding a brief sentence or two relating to technical issues to the "Readers" section of WP:Contact us; seems like a sensible idea. — This, that and the other (talk) 04:34, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Note that the top of this page mentions where to put "Bugs and feature requests". --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 18:00, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
There really isn't a good place for non-technical non-editors to report technical issues. Most of the email addresses on the Contact Us page go to one of the info-en OTRS queues and there is a tech-issues queue. But unless it's a really easy answer they tend to sit around for a long time (weeks, sometimes) with no response or they're referred elsewhere (here, mailing lists). From what I understand, Phabricator won't be any more layperson-friendly than Bugzilla (probably worse), so that's probably not the best place to refer readers. This page is probably easier to figure out than Phabricator and more likely to get a response than OTRS. But for a non-editor, it may still be difficult. Mr.Z-man 17:53, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Compared to Bugzilla, Phabricator will improve the situation in some areas. The most common complaints I've heard about Bugzilla apart from its user interface were the separate login and the fact that email addresses were exposed. Both is not the case anymore with Phabricator. Also see mw:Phabricator/versus_Bugzilla for a list of improvements and known issues. Personally I'd say that I'm still waiting for that perfect bugtracker fitting everybody's needs and tech-savvyness levels and I'm convinced that I'll still be waiting in 50 years - it's always a compromise/trade-off. Plus it can be really hard to define or find out where a bug starts and where "strange but intended behavior" or user support questions end, as expectations are something subjective. :-/ --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 18:00, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Login page on iPad 1[edit]

I can no longer check "Keep me logged in" on my iPad 1. The checkbox doesn't function. Is this a known problem? Thanks -- Jo3sampl (talk) 03:33, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

But you can successfully log in? Which browser is this about? --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 18:03, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks -- I can log in -- it's just the control next to "Keep me logged in" that doesn't work. The browser is Safari (native for the iPad). I'm having trouble finding a version ID, but the version corresponds to IOS 5.1.1, the last operating system update for iPad 1. I think I'll have to accept the idea that I'm (pretty much) the last WP editor using iPad 1. Christmas is coming . . . Thanks again -- Jo3sampl (talk) 23:29, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Reported in the ticketing system. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 13:21, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Edit counts (again)[edit]

Last time I looked (often I can't even reach the page) it said 1500 minutes behind. It's got stuck again and needs a kick.

I imagine the original provider wasn't expecting a delay of more than a few minutes, so didn't bother to parse it into hours (and days!)

Unbuttered parsnip (talk) mytime= Sun 20:25, wikitime= 12:25, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

You should contact the maintainer of the tool about this (also note you do not need to interwiki link your signature!) --Mdann52talk to me! 13:32, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
i all I know is it's a button at the bottom of my "User contributions" page. How am I supposed to know who maintains it, and why should I care?
ii it's supposed to stop redlinks when I write on other wiki pages. Doesn't seem to work with commons though. What difference does it make to anybody? --Unbuttered parsnip (talk) mytime= Sun 22:48, wikitime= 14:48, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Issues with Xtools can be reported to the maintainers at https://github.com/x-Tools/xtools/issues. There are tools looking for internal wikilinks in page sources. [[:en:User:Unbuttered Parsnip]] is formatted like an interwiki link to another wiki and may confuse some tools. It can also confuse readers looking at the page source. I'm not sure what your redlink comment means but a red link is a wikilink to a non-existing page at the same wiki. You have not created a Commons user page at commons:User:Unbuttered Parsnip so a wikilink to that page from another Commons page will be red. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:33, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Last time I looked, the signature you define at enwiki will have no effect at another wiki. I guess you mean you just copy/paste the identical wikitext for use on other wikis? You should omit the ":en:" from your signature here. Johnuniq (talk) 00:19, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Undo|thank[edit]

I am feeling somehat hard-done by. On the Revision History page for this article, I am the only editor who does not have (undo|thank) by their username. It is the same on a related page, where many usernames don't have (undo|thank) by their name. Why is this? ~ P123ct1 (talk) 17:10, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

You cannot thank yourself. Others see a thank link at your edits. Edits by bots and IP's don't have a thank link. Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant is semi-protected so there are no IP edits. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:17, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Why didn't I think of this? About the bots and IPs I might just have guessed. ~ P123ct1 (talk) 17:58, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

SUL tool returns: 404 - Not Found[edit]

I've noticed, while trying to process requests for accounts, that our Toollabs:quentinv57-tools/tools/sulinfo.php has been returning "404 - Not Found" for at least a few days now. This is a fairly critical tool to the assessment of whether or not request for usernames that are similar to existing usernames should be accepted as the existing name has been ACTIVE or not. If someone could look into this, that would be great. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 18:45, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Now that centralAuth shows unattached accounts is the tool still necessary? –xenotalk 18:58, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
  • The SUL tools does offer a little more information than CA, including more accurate registration dates (all accounts in CA created before April of 2013 show as April 2013). IIRC, SUL tool also offers a date for last activity that CA does not. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 19:09, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Quite a few of the tools are returning 404 at the moment it seems - at least that's what I've been experiencing, and a brief scatter-shot test just now did nothing to convince me otherwise! Reticulated Spline (tc) 19:02, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

So (again)...[edit]

MPelletier (WMF), what's the haps? The tools are down again? I see that Whatamidoing (WMF) also weighed in, above, but I didn't understand what they were saying; I only got the sarcasm. Look, I really don't care who runs what and in what way. I want a working edit count and article creation count, and I want the WMF to make that happen. Please. Drmies (talk) 02:31, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Hey Drmies, perhaps I can help talk about this. Please note that I'm not an engineer nor a lawyer :)
The tools that run on labs, just like the tools that ran on toolserver, are the responsibility of the tool owner. Perhaps you can recall when X!'s tools went down on toolserver before TParis and others helped take over maintenance? It's the same problem. On-wiki, the same thing happens when gadgets break. The owner has to fix them. Well, gadgets are better, because anyone can fix the code as long as they can edit it :)
The question of the Wikimedia Foundation taking over and hosting edit tools is...tricky. Sure, it's easy to do. The question is of the ethics and local community sentiment. The privacy policy makes it quite clear the the WMF itself holds very little in regards to access logs, and those findings expire. This follows what even volunteers with advanced tools can access, like CheckUser.
Every edit and action people take is logged by the wiki software. This is inherent to both the wiki-philosophy of personal accountability as well as licensing terms. Histories must be kept. However, what data mining is done by analyzing said histories gets on very, very shaky ground. Many communities are uncomfortable with edit counters, and in some places the use of one might violate the law.
So in the end, I think the better question is: what can be done to help duplicate the tools and leave them in the hands of volunteers? All the tools on labs are open source, it should be trivial to fork a service or two if it's vital to a local community. Are there any developers with labs accounts willing to take on this role? Keegan (WMF) (talk) 07:45, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Keegan (WMF), I appreciate your translation into human English (previous answers all took for granted that the reader a. knew the history of the matter and b. understood various technicalities). I think I understand some of the intricacies now. I guess I don't understand why such gadgets keep breaking down, but I'll take your word for it. Anyway, I need these tools to evaluate an editor for RfA; it's very hard to do so without. Thanks again, Drmies (talk) 13:52, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Time zone settings[edit]

When I was trying to update my time zone ("Time offset") settings, I realized that Asia/Beijing was not an option. While I was able to change my time zone to Asia/Hong Kong to achieve the same effect, I think that Asia/Beijing should be added to the list because it is a capital city of a country (and a significant one, too). It is also listed in the timezone options for most major operating systems (Windows, Mac OS, many distros of Linux). I understand that there are other cities in the same time zone, but there are already many cities listed for any given time zone. For example, America/Toronto, America/Montreal, America/New York, America/Bogota. and America/Lima are all in the -05:00 time zone yet they are all individually listed due to their significance.

In short: I would like to request that Asia/Beijing be included in the list of time offsets under Preferences -> Appearance.

Thanks. Tony Tan98 · talk 04:26, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

@Tony Tan 98: This is a feature of the MediaWiki software, so we can't fix it locally from the English Wikipedia. I've filed a bug report in our (new!) bug tracking system so that the MediaWiki developers will see your request. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 04:50, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
@Mr. Stradivarius: I see. Thank you for filing the report! Best, Tony Tan98 · talk 04:54, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
MediaWiki is written in PHP which like many others uses the tz database. List of tz database time zones does not have a time zone identifier called Asia/Beijing so that's a red link. Beijing is covered by Asia/Shanghai. Asia/Hong Kong also works for just setting your Wikipedia preferences but officially only covers Hong Kong. See also Time in China#IANA time zone database. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:54, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Tony, I understand your frustration. I have to use "America:New York" instead of "America:Boston" (which is available in most OS and other program settings as Boston is the capital city of Massachusetts which is kind of a central hub for New England of which New York is not part of). I also have done some research in this, and until it is added to the tz database, there isn't much the software developers can reasonably do. Happy editing! — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 15:04, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Page Transitions[edit]

All of a sudden, as I move backwards and forwards (using IE10 Back and Forward navigation buttons) between pages, there's a "transition" whereby one page sort of 'slides' into the other, rather than a crisp instant refresh. Have the tech guys changed something, or is this caused by some aspect of my IE settings? It's happened once before, a few months ago, then suddenly stopped. Thanks, 141.6.11.14 (talk) 12:29, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Request for edit to Template:Infobox holiday[edit]

This template categorises the page according to the field "frequency", e.g. "annual" puts the page in Category:Holidays and observances by frequency (annual). The trouble is that a capital A on Annual puts the page into a duplicate category, Category:Holidays and observances by frequency (Annual). Please edit the code in the template to use a lowercase version of the frequency in the category name. – Fayenatic London 14:51, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Fixed using the {{lc:}} magic word. The duration and scheduling fields may need the same changes. SiBr4 (talk) 15:05, 24 November 2014 (UTC)