Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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Contents partial data[edit]

Both January 27 and February 4 only show partial data for pageviews. Both dates compiled only articles up to some point in the alphabet between Royce White and Tim Hardaway, Jr.. All articles after this point in the alphabet have no pageview data for these dates. Recall that December 31, 2013 stopped between TNZ and TO and was not compiled completely for several months thereafter.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:31, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Currently, February 5 has compiled to somewhere between Emily Ratajkowski and Frank Underwood (House of Cards).--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:40, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
No Page view statistics at all are available for February 6, and Henrik's talkpage is pretty much deserted Ottawahitech (talk) 14:32, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
2/7 did almost none of the pageviews. It stopped somewhere between Aardvark and Anthony Davis (basketball).--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 09:07, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
It appears that the program follows the alphabet not only in the articles but also in the Wikipedias it serves. According to this posting the Arab Wikipedia's Page view statistics are still working while the English Wikipedia's are not. Ottawahitech (talk) 14:37, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Still no Page view statistics ? Ottawahitech (talk) 14:29, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
Is the source data from Wikimedia complete? It's best to narrow down the offender. It'd be nice if the Foundation could follow through and actually make their own page view statistics in a readable format rather than relying on a website that frequently breaks. Killiondude (talk) 00:27, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
You may be thinking of WMF Labs "Wikiviewstats", which has been in this condition since last October: Noyster (talk), 16:41, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
The source data from [1] appears to be complete. Mr.Z-man 05:06, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

The following is a better summary of the problem dates. The following shows the last page I quickly found with seemingly full stats and the first page that I did not see stats for.

Jan 27: Royce White and Tim Hardaway, Jr.
Feb 4: Royce White and Tim Hardaway, Jr.
Feb 5: Emily Ratajkowski and Frank Underwood (House of Cards)
Feb 6: None (before Aardvark)
Feb 7: Aardvark and Anthony Davis (basketball)
Feb 8: None (before Aardvark)
Feb 9: Campbell's Soup Cans and Cloud Gate
Feb 10: None (before Aardvark)
Feb 12: None (before Aardvark)
Feb 13: None (before Aardvark)

I continue to assume the English WP pageview stats are compiled alphabetically and base the above information on that fact.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:42, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

In Polish Wikipedia stats are down from 2015-02-02. --Swd (talk) 07:47, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

  • Still no Page view statistics ? Ottawahitech (talk) 01:06, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
It's up again for 11 February now. While I saw a graph yesterday where only 6th, 8th and 10th February were missing, the graph for the same page today shows a gap from 5 thru 11 February... Does anyone know if the missing data will be restored? -- (talk) 21:29, 12 February 2015 (UTC) (PS ping @Jackson665: as you asked there :)

No data?[edit]

I've been checking both the English and Japanese Wikipedias, and essentially, data for February 4 and 5 is missing. What happened? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:49, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

I use the service regularly for and I've noticed some lack of data on January, the 27th, but in the previous months it has been performing quite well. It did show some interruptions in the past, but not recently.--Alexmar983 (talk) 21:26, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
I reported this earlier after seeing Stand Up, Stand Up for Jesus apparently not have any views for the 27th despite being on DYK. But when I reported it, no-one appeared interested. I would like to know why there is no data and why WikiViewStats are down too. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 09:54, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Anyone interested?[edit]

In collaborating on a new, stable, pageview system? and wikiviewstats are both maintained by single users who haven't been active in months. I don't have the time or interest to do it all myself (plus, we obviously want to avoid having a single person running important systems like this), but I have some experience (and already-written code) from popularpages. So if 2 or 3 other people are interested, I'd also be in. Mr.Z-man 05:06, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is still a plan, but last October, the WMF said that they were trying to build a new page view system: "Negrin told [the Signpost] that they are aware of the problem [with] and are currently working to replace the current apparatus with a "modern, scalable system," which will come out in a preliminary form next quarter." Now, my memory could be wrong and the WMF was referring to something else ... but that's one reason we have pings. TNegrin (WMF) Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 18:09, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
What about ? Anyway there could be a replacement needed, as @Henrik: seems to be on the leave? (Unfortunately, I am no programmer, even not when I log in ;) PS. says: "This is very much a beta service and may disappear or change at any time." :( -- (talk) 21:54, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Working again?[edit]

Ha. Looks like it may be working again. Pkeets (talk) 02:35, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

All I'm getting is "Internal server error". Squinge (talk) 10:38, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Still not working as far as I can see... Simon Burchell (talk) 17:47, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
I still see an empty gap between February 6 and February 11. Dustin (talk) 18:17, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
And there's been nothing since Feb 11 as far as I can see - not even blank entries now, just no update to the chart at all. Squinge (talk) 06:36, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

This is really making it hard to do quite a lot of things... Fix needed soon, and lost data recovered. Rcsprinter123 (lecture) @ 19:55, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

EN WP pageview stats are all caught up except for one date[edit]

Since I believe that the pageview statistics are done alphabetically, I have looked at the pageview stats for Zoo and believe that all the problematic February dates have been caught up and the only remaining date at issue is January 27, which cut off somewhere between Royce White and Tim Hardaway, Jr.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:21, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Looking good to me too. I've checked a number of pages on my watchlist and they're all up to date with the exception of Jan 27. Squinge (talk) 10:54, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Not updating[edit]

Now the 18th through 20th are undone. This is no longer updating pageviews daily.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:50, 21 February 2015 (UTC)[edit]

I know this is a recurring problem that has been happening for years. But we have not had stats since Feb 17: Main page stats. Any chance WMF will be hooking the articles up to a more reliable method? — Maile (talk) 13:11, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost#Suggestion_for_an_item_in_the_Signpost_--_no_Page_view_statistics. Ottawahitech (talk) 15:58, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

===Cannot connect to server=== My browser cannot connect to the server Ottawahitech (talk) 17:11, 22 February 2015 (UTC)


I will like to know where are the reasons or discussion for the integration of Lua in order to render templates/infoboxes. --Keysanger (talk) 22:08, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

A scripting engine was created for maintainability, ease of writing logic, and performance. Lua specifically was chosen for its sandboxing capabilities. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 22:35, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Do you know whether there is a paper about, or RfC? --Keysanger (talk) 23:19, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
There sure is a whole lot of mailinglist stuff about it. There is [2] which is one of the oldest documents about it I guess. I'm not 100% sure if there was an RFC, but the general sentiment was one of thank god. An RFC wasn't really needed either, as nothing was really changing, just additional options were provided. People started using it naturally, and there wasn't much, if any, opposition. Mediawiki templates are really not suitable for programming, and something like Scribunto, which is the name of the Lua extension was sorely needed. You could ask Tim Starling or Anome, who both worked on the implementation, they surely remember if there were any discussions about the implementation. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 23:35, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
While I don't particularly recall an RfC as such, there were quite a few discussions. I'd try checking out the archives of he various Village Pumps or the discussion pages for the particular template(s) that you are interested in. – Philosopher Let us reason together. 23:51, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
There's a decent summary of the history and reasons in File:Wikimedia Hackathon 2013 - Scribunto presentation slides.pdf. Anomie 01:08, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

That is what I was looking for, thank you, Martijn, Philosopher, Anomie. --Keysanger (talk) 10:06, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Lua has made some templates far more efficient, and made it possible for others to do things that were impossible or impractical, before. However, it has also made it harder for many editors to understand how templates work, or to change them. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:10, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

I imagine there are some editors who actually prefer parser functions, either through long exposure to it or because its syntax seems simpler somehow (and it arguably is, but that simplicity means doing anything non-trivial with it is far more complex). But I can't think there are many. Lua is so much better in almost every single way: apart from the above it's far easier to work with, with proper syntax colouring, syntax checking and easier conceptually with a clear separation between code (the Module namespace) and everything else - no more ugly linebreaking comments because the parser code in a template is also its output.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 23:07, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Please explain how to obtain a list of recognised parameters from a Lua-ised template. With a normal template, I search for triple opening braces; anything from that point to the next pipe or triple closing brace is the name of a valid parameter. For example, the template code might be
{{ {{{|safesubst:}}}#invoke:Unsubst||$N=Citation needed |date=__DATE__ |$B=
|name={{{name|Citation needed}}}
|link=Wikipedia:Citation needed
|text=citation needed
|title={{{reason|This claim needs references to reliable sources.}}}
|cat=[[Category:All articles with unsourced statements]]
|cat-date=Category:Articles with unsourced statements
}}{{#if:{{{1|}}}|[[Category:Pages containing citation needed template with deprecated parameters]]}}


in which I find
- of these, the first is the null parameter which is a "special" (almost always found, as here, preceding a parser function or template name in the form {{{|safesubst:}}}); there are three named parameters |name= |reason= |date= and one positional parameter. Now, how do I do that with a Lua-ised template? Sometimes, they're helpful, as with {{str rep}} which we know recognises three positional parameters - but it might take more than three, and it might also take named parameters. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:23, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
In a module, you can (almost) always scan the entry point for frame.args Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 11:02, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
Doesn't work with Module:Infobox and I bet I can dig up more examples. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:10, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
I think there was (at least) once such question at VPT, which resulted in answer, that there is no 100% sure way of doing that. But maybe I'm wrong or things has changed. Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 23:40, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
I don’t think 'make it easier to find function parameters by looking at source code' should be a design principal of any programming language. It may be easier for some editors in some cases (though I suspect not generally even for them: see e.g. this version of {{Dynkin}} before its Luafication) but all parameters available for use should be fully documented in the {{documentation}}, and editors should refer to that. You could easily make a mistake, using parameters wrongly, not recognising dependencies, using parameters meant only for testing or replaced by newer parameters and left in for compatibility but not meant to be used.
This to me seems an argument for properly documenting all templates and modules meant to be used by editors other than their creator. There seems to be no requirement at the moment; understandably editors are focussed on getting templates finished, working, with bugs squashed. Documentation often seems to lag behind, only fixed when someone notices perhaps weeks later that it no longer matches the template. In a few cases templates go without documentation for weeks, months or years. {{Dynkin}} was one that only got documentation as I converted it to Lua; it had none for the previous three+ years.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 23:37, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
It absolutely should be, it is important for internationalisation. When you have a simple language like template-speak a suitable parser can be crafted in a couple of lines, for Lua its a different ball game. One cannot rely on every template author to exhaustively document and understand nuances, this is why languages have thrown away flexibility (un-forced locking, multiple inheritance, type looseness, uninitialised variables, memory reuse, etc.). Indeed Lua was dragged kicking and screaming out of the Foundation, and was probably not the best solution. Also it has lead to compulsive re-writing of templates to "be more efficient" which it often is, but not always, since many programmers are taught how to program, but not taught any computer science. Certainly we have abandoned a lot of readability, which is a cardinal sin. It is much like the obsession with every jot and tittle having a CSS class, which is actually implemented in every skin in every browser as "default text, default size". All the best: Rich Farmbrough11:23, 18 February 2015 (UTC).
Rich, I've read this a couple of times now, and I have no idea what the point is you're trying to make. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 11:38, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
Template documentation is not kept up to date, although it certainly should be. If I see from a diff that a template has been amended in such a way that a triple opening brace has been added, I know that either a new parameter has been added, or an existing param has been given greater functionality. Similarly for when a triple opening brace is removed. Either way, I know that the documentation should be checked and updated where necessary. But if the template is in Lua, how do I know that a parameter has been added, amended or removed? What are the simple tell-tale signs (equivalent to the triple opening brace) that I can look for? Until and unless there is a mandatory requirement that templates not be amended without the documentation also being amended, there needs to be a way for people to spot and correct any discrepancy between template and documentation.
I agree with Rich: there are people on a drive to rewrite templates in Lua, not because it should be done, but because it can be done. In so doing, something is always overlooked, unexpected behaviour is added, previous expected behaviour suddenly fails to operate as it should. Also, the number of people capable of sorting out these (and future) problems is greatly reduced. See WT:WSS#How long has this been broken? --Redrose64 (talk) 13:02, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────Parser functions are simpler, yes, so there is really only one way to handle parameters. But this is one of their worst features. Simple tasks like taking a number/date, converting it to a standard format such as an integer, then using that throughout the template are impossible. You either do it in-place every time it's used in a parser function or you impose stringent conditions on input, so a task that would take a single line of [Lua] code becomes an obligation on every editor using the template/a source of numerous errors when the wrong format is used. More generally Parser functions' simplicity make doing even simple things very hard, and makes doing even mildly complex things (such as those requiring simple loops - all those templates with hard coded limits on the number of parameters as each parameter has to be handled individually) impossible. It is an appalling language for programming and is long overdue replacement.

I also dispute the number of people capable of sorting out these problems is reduced. It's greatly expanded because we are now using a proper programming language, one that many programmers use, or if they don't that they can quickly pick it up as it has much in common with other modern programming languages. It may take time for existing editors to become as proficient and for new editors with appropriate skills to join but it should be quicker and easier for most than learning parser functions.

We could do better at updating templates though. Apart from requiring all templates be properly documented, proper use of each template's sandbox (and module sandbox) and testcases would catch at least some problems. Where this isn't enough or practical (not every template can be tested on a template subpage) perhaps have a process of code review, where other editors look over the code changes in the sandbox. This is common in industry and has other benefits besides helping ensure correctness.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 01:26, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

If Lua was used to encapsulate stuff that is hard in template language, we would have broken the main roadblock, which was the functions that were either horrendous or impossible in template language, and which the developers refused to supply as parser functions (although they were written and tested). Certainly looping and recursion are useful, but they were denied from the original langu age for performance reasons (as was "if", and Tim even said he regretted permitting that (actually "qif") on one occasion) - recursion could be reintroduced trivially.
Moreover template language is actually wiki-markup, there's nothing special about it. Therefore anyone who can write articles can write templates. Templates that have simple arguments require a little more knowledge, but not much.
As for the lack of variables in templates, other Mediawiki wikis have created a syntax that allows them.
All the best: Rich Farmbrough20:37, 22 February 2015 (UTC).

Knowledge of personal pronoun preference data base[edit]

There is an interest in tracking progress toward gender equality by dynamically updating statistical measure of self-identified "gender pronoun usage preference" on user pages to confirm trend of progress to achieve gender parity. This is likely admin only access to technical user data. Does anyone know how easy/how difficult it would be to gather and then print out these statistics? LawrencePrincipe (talk) 21:16, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

@LawrencePrincipe: Actually, you can access it using the "gender" magic word like so: {{gender:username|he|she|unset}}
So if you enter {{gender:Philosopher|he|she|unset}}, you get he, indicating hat I have my preferences set to "he". I do the same thing to you and see that yours is "unset". – Philosopher Let us reason together. 00:14, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
@Philosopher: On a one-by-one basis that works, though the stats are needed system wide on a weekly and/or monthly basis. That is, out of the total number of new users per month, what ratio self-identified as female and what ratio self-identified as male system-wide. Can it be done system-wide for being dynamically updated? LawrencePrincipe (talk) 00:35, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Listed at Wikipedia:Database reports/User preferences but out of date. --  Gadget850 talk 00:53, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
@Gadget850: Those stats are quite fine, but quite dated: "User preferences statistics; data as of 23:12, 19 June 2014 (UTC)." Is there a way to update them, or get a month-by-month graph? LawrencePrincipe (talk) 02:01, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Looks like this was run on the old Toolserver. I don't know of a replacement. --  Gadget850 talk 02:23, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Note that this data is very unlikely to be useful or meaningful. The preference is designed to be used for gendering language correctly (not an issue in English) and not for demographic tracking; most users will never set it. Andrew Gray (talk) 15:28, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
@Andrew Gray: The gender stats from the UN study from 2010 are the only ones currently is use and are dated. Although not optimal, looking at the "user preference choice of gender" offers a useful approximation. It is not optimal, but useful for gaining some insight into the current status of the gender stats. Are you familiar with the new Toolserver applications and data base access? LawrencePrincipe (talk) 16:02, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
FWIW, this is the WMF Analytics discussion from last year on whether it was likely to be useful data. Andrew Gray (talk) 19:51, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi Andrew Gray; That conversation between Ryan Kaldari, Aaron, and Steven Walling at WMF Analytics was interesting on gender preference data being used in a sub-optimal way of getting gender stats updated from the old 2010 UN data. If anyone has their user id name, then I could ping them to try to find someone who knows the new Toolserver. The link just provided above here by Gadget850 was strongly on target with women editors estimated at 19%, which is actually quite close to the 2010 UN numbers. If anyone knows the new Toolserver well enough, or has the user id for any of the above (Ryan, Aaron, and Steve Walling) then I could ping them. LawrencePrincipe (talk) 20:46, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you mean by "knows the new toolserver", but if you have an idea of what the old SQL query was you can try it at quarry - no need for a toolserver/labs account. I would strongly stress that the 19% is probably as much random chance as meaningful data, though. Andrew Gray (talk) 20:56, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
Does someone know how to update this link: Wikipedia:Database reports/User preferences. LawrencePrincipe (talk) 21:22, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
@LawrencePrincipe: The code that generates this report is at Wikipedia:Database reports/User preferences/Configuration. Looks like it comes from the Toolserver era, so it's going to need adjustments, but you should be able to run the SQL queries at least without modifications on Quarry (mentioned above). Perhaps you can get MZMcBride (its author) to make it work. Matma Rex talk 12:46, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
@Matma Rex: MZMcB wrote that for the old toolserver, and what is needed to maintain stats now is if it can be updated/converted to the new toolserver to update the stats. Any way that this can be done? LawrencePrincipe (talk) 01:53, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

(un-indent) phabricator:T60196 is what's blocking us here. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:03, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

@MZMcBride:@Rich Farmbrough: That issue seems to have been addressed by @Rich who appears to be able to find a way to get the gender stats on a monthly basis (see section immediately below). The last update to comments on the phabricator link you just provide was from 14Dec which has not been updated since then. Any chance of getting the month-by-month gender preference stats for the last three or four monthly intervals? LawrencePrincipe (talk) 00:09, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Section break for Wikimedia research stats[edit]

There was a user survey done by the WMF, the results of which have not been released yet. There is a paper which describes identifying users gender by name as a supplementary process (I forget which paper). There is also some work on gendered linguistic differences on Wikipedia, and the conclusion I took from that was that it is not valid to extrapolate gender tells from general Internet discourse to Wikipedia discourse without supporting evidence. I also analysed some small samples of text on a standard "gender tester" with poor results. However there is no reason that a full text analysis of all talk page contributions could not be done, and it might well lead to a model with good gender predictive power, since there is a valid training set consisting of the gender identified users. All the best: Rich Farmbrough11:46, 18 February 2015 (UTC).

@Rich Farmbrough: That paper you mention would be interesting to locate if you have any leads. The issue of using the new toolserver to count up the number of new accounts which self-identify as female seems to be difficult to accommodate, even though the old toolserver apps did this with ease. The research apps you describe above sound pretty advanced, though the simple counting of new accounts which self-identify as female would offer a first step if someone could figure out the new toolserver. LawrencePrincipe (talk) 15:18, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
The last 5000 new accounts (that have edited) were 9 male, 1 female, 4990 unset. All the best: Rich Farmbrough16:13, 18 February 2015 (UTC).
Thanks, Rich, that is important to keep in mind (also, specifying user gender is only possible since october 2011):
"However there is no reason that a full text analysis of all talk page contributions could not be done, and it might well lead to a model with good gender predictive power, since there is a valid training set consisting of the gender identified users." - Except that this would be freaking creepy! --Atlasowa (talk) 16:37, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
Declared: male = 502573, female=98369 , female = 16.40% of those with declared gender.
Admins: female=56, male= 600.
All the best: Rich Farmbrough17:04, 18 February 2015 (UTC).
@Rich Farmbrough:@Atlasowa: Those are remarkable gender stats, but what does 500,000 male editors refer to? The Economist newsweekly has stated here [[1]] that there is a total of 50,000 editors in 2007, which went down to 30,000 editors in 2014. What does your 502,573 number mean, and is it related to the 2011 date cited by @Atlasowa? Maybe there is a simple explanation. LawrencePrincipe (talk) 17:50, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
  1. ^ "The future of Wikipedia: WikiPeaks?". The Economist. March 1, 2014. Retrieved March 11, 2014. 
The vast majority of the 20,555,036 Wikipedia accounts have never edited (or have no edits visible in their contributions). There are several obvious reasons for these accounts, and some not so obvious:
  1. Someone sees some vandalism and creates an account, but it is fixed by the time they get there.
  2. Someone creates an account but finds editing too hard, changes their mind, gets distracted (ooh look a butterfly!)
  3. Accounts created to protect a name (e.g, User:Placeholder, and WP:DOPPELGÄNGER accounts) or to reserve a name
  4. Accounts who try to vandalise and give up because the edit filters won't let them
  5. Accounts that created an article which was later speedy deleted
  6. Accounts where the password was forgotten, or set wrongly
  7. Sleeper socks
and probably a few more.
And the other figures are based on "active editors" which has various definitions, usually in terms of X edits per month or year.
All the best: Rich Farmbrough18:49, 18 February 2015 (UTC).
LawrencePrincipe, the Economist refers not really to "total editors" but to "active editors" (Active Editors = Registered (and signed in) users who made 5 or more edits in a month), see english WP summary stats, 2007: ~50,000 active editors and 2014: ~30,000 active editors. Same trend on other big WP, german WP summary stats 2007: ~9,000 active editors and 2014: ~6,000 active editors. Total (ever) Registered users on enWP: 24,107,661, that makes 500,000 male editors a very small part. Same for admins: Out of 1,363 enWP Administrators, 56 are female and 600 male. --Atlasowa (talk) 19:28, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
@Rich Farmbrough: The comments all appear to be in agreement. The stats would be interesting to see for results for the last 10,000 editors and the last 15,000 editors. Are they all consistent at about 10% gender pronoun usage? @Atlasowa: The Economist article also states that non-English Wikipedia is stable at about 42,000 active editors, up or down 2000 for seasonal variation. The 'active' editor number appears to be a significant one for all the reasons that Rich has stated above. Can the stats and tools you provided be used as reliable data to be published from Wikimedia? LawrencePrincipe (talk) 21:41, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
The Quarry tools are there, and I might be able to make something better. (Well I am able, but I need to brush up my SQL.)
The 5k figure I can potentially get you the 10k and 15k figure. To replicate those figures, it is important to state the time by which the accounts needed to have edited to qualify. Probably simpler just to list the 15k accounts.
I do agree with Steve Walling, though, that the declared numbers are a poor proxy. For example GamerGate may have made females lees willing to self-identify (or it may not.. but it's a potential confounding factor.)
All the best: Rich Farmbrough23:36, 18 February 2015 (UTC).
@Rich Farmbrough: All those stats would be useful since at present there is no new data on gender stats since the 2010 UN study. If you say "it is important to state the time" for the 5k, 10k, 15k then it may be just as easy to double the time interval to indicate how many women registered (approx. 10k level), and the triple the time interval to approx. the 15k level, if that seems reasonable. The actual number for each time interval would tell the story. Regarding your other question about women "GamerGate" concerns, my understanding is that if women were given confidence that self-identifying gender would help them to better achieve gender parity, then they would have every incentive to do so. Historically, a chance to achieve goals is often a high incentive to participate. LawrencePrincipe (talk) 00:31, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Absolutely, it's the case that Editathons based on improving coverage (achieving gender parity) on women's history, women's literature etc. are very successful in attracting participants (of both genders) I believe for this reason. However the motivation to edit is generally not related to gender parity, and those who are really passionate about this tend to think (perhaps rightly) that their time is best spent encouraging other women and girls to edit.
As far as the numbers go 5,000 editors is about 2 or 3 days worth. But I can take samples at monthly intervals, or some such. All the best: Rich Farmbrough00:52, 19 February 2015 (UTC).
Hi Rich, Agreement on all of the above. If the monthly stats are a convenient time interval then by all means it would be useful to see it, for a few monthly intervals if possible? You seem to have kept up with the editathons and likely know about the woman Admin education effort. It would be nice if the old gender 2010 data could be updated with some of this. LawrencePrincipe (talk) 01:16, 19 February 2015 (UTC)


I'd really love it if AnomieBot could be excluded from making changes show up as "not current". Samsara 00:09, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Pinging its owner Anomie. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:42, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
That would require a rather major change to MediaWiki in how the "bot" flag on a revision gets stored, and then another change to how the "current" revision gets flagged that might prove prohibitive from a database performance standpoint. Anomie 13:29, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
I was aware that the problem is with MediaWiki, not with the bot, which is why I brought discussion here so as to gauge the level of support for this idea. The database load depends on the desired depth of the feature. I'd be happy with a depth of 1.
Allowing people to set up custom ignore lists has potential benefits beyond ignoring actions by trusted bots. Samsara 18:32, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

(There used to be a gadget which helped with the watch-list problem.) If this was built in (and wasn't just "all bots") there would need to be a preferences page for each user to list their "ignored-for-purposes-of-calculating-current list". I also doubt that there would be much impact on performance, especially if it was not a default option. All the best: Rich Farmbrough20:45, 22 February 2015 (UTC).

I am not able to edit my user page[edit]

I am not able to edit my user page using my android mobile browser (Google Chrome). This error starts appearing from 2 days. The edit source icon in mobile version of wikipedia(A Pencil Logo), get merged to the notification icon on the top right corner of the page . I can give a screenshot of this. I am not able to understanding the kind of error happening to it, even though when I opening wikipedia on PC, it's all right. Please anyone solve this problem. Mobile Browser: Google Chrome 38.0.1847(Android) < br/> Link: Saurabh Chatterjee 2 (talk) 17:03, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saurabh Chatterjee 2 (talkcontribs) 16:58, 18 February 2015 (UTC) 
Hi, I can't reproduce this issue (anymore?), can you take a screenshot and upload it? --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 19:24, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
@Saurabh Chatterjee 2: Can you still reproduce the problem? :) --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 17:50, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Extremely slow load speeds[edit]

For the past couple days Wikipedia has been very slow on loading, getting stuck on transferring data from I've cleared my cache/cookies, but even things on Wi-Fi experience these slow speeds. KyoufuNoDaiou (talk) 04:10, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Please use your browser's developer tools ("Network") to see which specific files load how slowly. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 13:06, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
Today it's working at proper speeds. Should it happen again I will check and post again. Thanks! KyoufuNoDaiou (talk) 15:53, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
It's extremely slow again, not even loading. I had to use noscript to get here. This image took something like 2 minutes to load only after I opened it in a new tab. It seems to be anything coming from bits slows it down. Let me know if you need anything else, I appreciate the help. It's only bits as well. I can view the page source a couple seconds after loading the page, it's just that nothing displays.KyoufuNoDaiou (talk) 02:38, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
@KyoufuNoDaiou: I suggest using the command traceroute (or tracert to check which specific intermediate hosts between you and are slow. I'm not sure if it's related, but for the record, at Japanese Wikipedia some people (presumably all of which were connecting from Japan) simlarly reported slowness between February 14-18. Whym (talk) 03:12, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
It's working at a good speed again today. If it slows down again (hopefully not) and the reply time is coming from a Wikipedia server, I'll post again. Thanks!KyoufuNoDaiou (talk) 15:53, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I've had extremely slow load speeds for wikipedia all week, but today it is even worse. It is only wikipedia that is affected no other websites, and regardless of where I am trying to acces it from.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 21:11, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
It's slow again for me as well. Most of the time traceroute gives good numbers (approx 55-85 ms) a couple times I got some higher ones (100-200 ms) but it still is slow.KyoufuNoDaiou (talk) 21:36, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
I just ran a Network test and some Javascript took ~88 seconds to download that and on another test a css took a while as well.KyoufuNoDaiou (talk) 21:52, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
It's been hit and miss for me all week, too. Using MonoBook. Smarkflea (talk) 23:00, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

I'll email ops, but while we're waiting, could you please post (or e-mail to User:Faidon Liambotis (WMF)) your general location or IP address? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:43, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Im in San Diego, CA. When I use another laptop I have normal load speeds though. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 05:55, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

I think these are all issues with AT&T in the US (and possibly focused on the west coast?), we've had a couple of more reports from there as well. I haven't been able to pinpoint where the issue lies exactly so far, I'm afraid. I did made a change just now but it was more of a guess — please do let me know if you continue to see issues or if they are magically fixed. I'll reach out to AT&T contacts in the meantime to report the issue and possibly get some insight. Thanks for your report and for your patience! Faidon Liambotis (WMF) (talk) 07:23, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Ah, I've been getting this behavior too, and I'm on AT&T U-verse on a dynamic IP on the west coast (Mountain View, CA). My current traceroute to looks like this (I'm posting this for the route, not the times, and I have no timing issues at the moment anyway):
traceroute to (, 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
 1  homeportal (  0.949 ms  0.790 ms  0.740 ms
 2 (  19.612 ms  25.996 ms  19.302 ms
 3 (  27.317 ms  19.185 ms  19.794 ms
 4 (  20.220 ms (  20.219 ms  20.898 ms
 5 (  21.978 ms  23.541 ms  24.127 ms
 6 (  22.712 ms  23.026 ms  22.803 ms
 7 (  23.488 ms  22.586 ms  22.569 ms
 8 (  88.753 ms  93.651 ms  89.593 ms
 9 (  88.924 ms  94.450 ms  92.912 ms
10  * * *
This slowdown behavior seems to depend on the time of day, being the worst in mid to late afternoon local time. It's completely absent right now (11:30 PM local time), but unless your change fixed it, I would expect it to return around the same time tomorrow. --Colin Douglas Howell (talk) 07:34, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

We debugged this extensively with an AT&T engineer. They made some recommendations on which paths to use and which to avoid, as some of their paths are currently congested for various reasons. I've made some adjustments to our config to use a different carrier and it's very likely it may help. Please do let me know if you keep seeing slowdowns, esp. if you are an AT&T customer. Thanks! Faidon Liambotis (WMF) (talk) 18:16, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm not an AT&T customer, but it uses their phone lines. No other site has been affected...Smarkflea (talk) 19:04, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
It's been working well the past couple days and today. Thanks for all your work!KyoufuNoDaiou (talk) 19:15, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Page Curation toolbar went away?[edit]

Off and on for a few weeks now I've been working on trying to reduce the backlog at Special:NewPagesFeed (currently up to December 7th). I've found the page curation toolbar to be extremely helpful. Yesterday, it was gone. I figured I must have mucked something up in my preferences, so I played around with them and then it came back. I have not changed them at all since then, but today it's gone again. Does anyone know what's going on with that? I can't even mark a page as reviewed. ~ ONUnicorn(Talk|Contribs)problem solving 19:31, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

And now it's back again? But I didn't do anything. This is odd. ~ ONUnicorn(Talk|Contribs)problem solving 20:37, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
And now it's gone again. I don't get it. ~ ONUnicorn(Talk|Contribs)problem solving 18:39, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Strange page name linked in alerts[edit]

Hello! Please have a look at this screenshot, which shows my alerts from today. What's that "[No page]" page, I've never seen it before? Could it be some kind of a bug? — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 18:54, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

This happens when the page has been deleted by the time you see the notification. More at phab:T52829. -- John of Reading (talk) 19:01, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for the clarification! — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 21:50, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
It's from MediaWiki:Echo-no-title. If it's believed to only occur for deleted pages then I suggest we change it to say "[Deleted page]". The page name would be nice to have but if it's not available then "[Deleted page]" at least indicates the problem while "[No page]" sounds like a bug or unknown feature. PrimeHunter (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 22:10, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Agreed, "[Deleted page]" would be less confusing. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 22:55, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Just to check we don't have more information available, what exactly does the entry say when viewed at Quote the whole text. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:45, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
It says this: "(notification-page-linked: HM Tamim7, HipHop Virtual Machine, (echo-no-title))". — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 00:08, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
It reveals the user who linked it but nothing directly about the page. You can however guess the pagename from User talk:HM Tamim7, even without access to deleted edits. The link in Hmtsoft was in {{Infobox dot-com company| ... | programming_language = [[C++]], [[PHP]] (as [[HipHop Virtual Machine|HHVM]]) ...}}. Should we code MediaWiki:Notification-page-linked to display the username when the pagename is unavailable due to deletion? PrimeHunter (talk) 01:07, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
I'd say that displaying more of the available information can only be beneficial. So yes, I'd vote for both "[Deleted page]" instead of "[No page]", and for displaying the username. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 01:30, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
I agree, but would prefer more input before changing a default interface message. phab:T52829 is from July 2013 with no recent activity so there is no telling when or if the pagename becomes available. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:45, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Sure thing, any interface changes of this kind would require input from more than a few editors. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 02:52, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Moreover, it would be even better to have something like "HipHop Virtual Machine was linked from a page that was later deleted", of course if that would be doable, instead of having a "[Deleted page]" that confusingly links nowhere. The username could be also added, for example with something like "HipHop Virtual Machine was linked from a now deleted page that was created by Hmtsoft". Just as a wording suggestion. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 03:31, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Hmtsoft is the unavailable name of the deleted page. The user was User:HM Tamim7. The passed username is the one who added the link in an edit and not necessarily the page creator. Notifications are usually brief. MediaWiki:Echo-no-title can be used by other notifications and I think consistency is good. How about simply changing "HipHop Virtual Machine was linked from [No page]" to "HipHop Virtual Machine was linked from [Deleted page] by HM Tamim7". PrimeHunter (talk) 03:59, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Oops, sorry, obviously I didn't pay enough attention. Maybe this could be slightly better: "HipHop Virtual Machine was linked from a now deleted page by HM Tamim7"? — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 04:30, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Prime Hunter's version if it gives the actual deleted page, Dsimic's if that is not available. Even then "HipHop Virtual Machine was linked by HM Tamim7, from a now deleted page" is better, because we don't want to imply HM Tarim7 deleted the page. All the best: Rich Farmbrough20:16, 22 February 2015 (UTC).

The page $ already exists and cannot be overwritten[edit]

What's the message that says this? See the text inside the big red box in this screenshot if my meaning isn't clear. It's kind-of under discussion in the final section of Wikipedia talk:Requested moves right now, so I searched for the title (searching only Mediawiki: space pages), but all I could find was the related but different MediaWiki:Fileexists-forbidden. It's definitely not Mediawiki:Talkexists, because Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/MediaWiki:Talkexists notes that this message was deprecated several years ago. As far as I can tell, uselang=qqx doesn't work when you're at — after I moved a page, I changed the URL to, but all it gave me was the message for "you didn't specify a page to move". Nyttend (talk) 18:55, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

It's MediaWiki:movepage-page-exists. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 19:29, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 131#What interface page is used for the results after a successful undeletion? for tips another time. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:11, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Edokter, thanks for the link! I created it by adding a second sentence and a pair of <big> tags to the Mediawiki page. This didn't work, however: the additional sentence displayed, of course, but when moving User:Salvidrim!/sandboxorig to User:Salvidrim!/sandboxtest and checking the "move talk page" box, I got <big><big>The page User talk:Salvidrim!/sandboxtest already exists and cannot be automatically overwritten. You must resolve the situation manually if you want to complete this pagemove.</big></big> I didn't realise that tags like <big></big> would display as text when used in a Mediawiki tag, rather than working. Any ideas on what to do? I was going to delete my version of MediaWiki:movepage-page-exists, but I suppose I ought to leave it up in case anyone else wants to try something, but feel free to request deletion at any point if you think that there's no more testing to be done. Nyttend (talk) 23:09, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
No all system messages are going through the sanitizer/parser to process HTML and wiki markup, so it is treated raw. Not much one can do here in terms of styling this message. I've deleted it. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 23:29, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Also, please don't use <big>; it is deprecated in HTML5. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 23:31, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Actually, it's obsolete in HTML 5, which is "stronger" than deprecated. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:36, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
I'll think about doing so once WikiMedia stops allowing me to use <center>...which'll never happen (ae. cruft is cruft is cruft and chalk it up to the age of the website). ResMar 01:43, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
@Resident Mario: I'm pretty sure center is converted by the parser to div style="margin:auto" /div. But... I could be wrong. --Izno (talk) 05:10, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
You are wrong, there are no parser conversions for obsolete elements or attributes at the moment (this change was reverted in 2012). Center is probably also a obsolete tag that the parser will never substitute. The reason is that it's effects are dependent on it's parents, which makes it difficult for the parser to replace it correctly. Instead, like bgcolor on tables, it will work for as long as browsers choose to support it and then simply stop working. I believe we recently got reports from the first browsers dropping support for some obsolete attributes, so that might be reason to re assess changes to the parser (I think Edokter actually was considering taking another look at that). Any change will likely first start with adding tracking categories or something similar, giving editors a way to assist and observe changes. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 09:35, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
On the <table>...</table> <tr>...</tr> <th>...</th> <td>...</td> elements, the bgcolor= attribute was never a full part of the HTML spec. It was first described in HTML 4, but was marked as deprecated even then, hence browser vendors were never obliged to provide it; it is known that some browsers do not support this attribute, which is why we have bots going around altering them to style="background-color: ...". The <big>...</big> and <center>...</center> elements are different, in that both were part of the formal spec - both were added in HTML 3.2; center was marked as deprecated in HTML 4.01, but big was not; both are obsolete in HTML 5. If an element - or an element's attributes - were part of the formal spec for HTML 2.0, HTML 3.2 or HTML 4.01, browser vendors of the time will have included support for those elements or attributes (otherwise they wouldn't have been compliant), and since nobody is obliged to rewrite web pages to accord with the latest spec, there will be a lot of web pages out there which are pure HTML 3.2, so browser vendors are unlikely to drop support at any time soon. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:19, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
If all system messages are treated as raw, what about the big involved ones with lots of links and other stuff, like MediaWiki:Blockiptext? What if we added its use of NOTOC/NOEDITSECTION and turned the warning into a section header? Nyttend (talk) 02:53, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Won't work. Not all system messages are treated raw; it depends on what part of the software or extension is actually using the messages. Phabricator is your best chance. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 09:24, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

CSS 'nth-child' integration into long tables?[edit]

Example of what I mean
Lorum ipsum dolor sit consectetur
adipiscing Donec sed dolor maximus
maximus justo blandit ipsum Praesent eu
sollicitudin metus vel eleifend Sed et lorem
quis erat tempor viverra sed id augue
Phasellus lacus imperdiet sed tempor eget
dolor molestie Sed sollicitudin condimentum
sapien arcu sodales nibh id ultrices ex
...and ...forth...

I asked over at the help desk, but I haven't gotten much of a response—thought I'd try here. Basically, I was wondering if it's possible to use the CSS parameter nth-child() (as explained here: [3]) in tables to ease the coding of background colors or text features at a steady interval? Currently, I'd have to code |- style="background:#C0C0C0;" on every other row, even though I only want a gray background color on the even-numbered rows. Were I designing a table in a webpage, I could use nth-child() to set up this style from the beginning. Additionally, the parameter allows the designer to set up whatever intervals s/he wishes and to begin the intervals after a certain number of columns or rows. This would be greatly beneficial in extremely long tables where reading clarity is paramount. I think alternating row colors help the reader stay on course through detailed and lengthy data points. Is this possible? -- Veggies (talk) 04:48, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately nth child can only be used with a stylesheet on Wikipedia. Related stackoverflow exchange. --Izno (talk) 05:12, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
You could use {{Alternating rows table section}}, but really I think the syntax for that is uglier than just styling the tables yourself. Maybe a better template could be created that uses Lua?--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 06:36, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

The last of three discussions at MediaWiki talk:Common.css/Archive 15#New style for tables with alternating row colors. --  Gadget850 talk 17:34, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

I may well just add the following line of CSS (from the previous discussions, adding white stripes), just to give editors the option. We'll see how popular it gets. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 17:51, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
.wikitable.zebra tr:nth-child(odd) {
    background-color: #fff;
Fwiw... we started the needed polling for facilitating the development of "something" along the same lines as mentioned above over on Wikisource more than a month ago. You can check out both the nth test-bed & the findings to date (even participate) starting HERE. -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:36, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Edit API error[edit]

I have a script at User:Dudemanfellabra/NRISOnly.js that controls my bot, User:NationalRegisterBot. I run it ~weekly and it scours the lists on WP:NRHPPROGRESS to produce this list of all pages in the project, along with a bunch of other information that it dumps in various places. It takes about 3 hours for each run, and I've tried to run it twice today, both times failing at the very end when it tries to dump the information by editing subpages of the above-linked page. Since it takes so long to run, I haven't had time to poke around to figure out what's wrong with it. I haven't changed the code since the last bot run a week ago, so I'm wondering if anything has changed in the API since then? Is anyone else having problems? The editing is done through an AJAX call as follows:

        url: mw.util.wikiScript( 'api' ),
        type: 'POST',
        dataType: 'json',
        async: false,
        data: {
            format: 'json',
            action: 'edit',
            title: info.title,
            text: info.text,
            summary: info.summary,
            token: mw.user.tokens.get( 'editToken' ),
            bot: 'true'

where info is an object with the relevant information. Any ideas?--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 06:32, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

What error response is the API returning? Legoktm (talk) 07:41, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
See, that's the problem. I don't have the code set up to show me the error (dumb mistake on my part). It just says it encountered an error. (Side note: If I wanted to output the API error, how would I do so?) But it's never encountered one before, and like I said, it ran fine last week, so something has had to change somewhere besides the code. I was hoping someone with knowledge of a recent change would chime in, but it seems no one knows of anything. I'll look into it more if I can.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 06:59, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Unclosed div in Template:Start tab[edit]

At the end of Template:Start tab there's an unclosed <div style="padding: 1ex"> tag, and it's causing the sections on this page not to collapse on mobile view. (Compare this page with, e.g., ANI in mobile view.) This unclosed div has been there for a long time, so I think something in the mobile skin must have changed recently. There might be a bug report in that, if someone wants to look. On the premise that unclosed divs are usually bad news I tested what would happen if I removed it, but the result is that the tabs don't display properly. Can anyone see how to balance the tags while still getting everything to display correctly? — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 12:37, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

The closing tags can be found in {{End tab}}. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 12:49, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
That makes sense. In that case, it looks like the problem is that Template:Village pump page header isn't using {{end tab}} when it should be. I can't quite see how it can be made to fit in with the current code, though. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 14:10, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
That template is a mess, and it takes a bit of profiling to fix it. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 15:46, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Size of Wikipedia[edit]

Dear editors: I have been looking at some of the statistics about Wikipedia, and I find graphs about the number of edits, the number of articles, the number of active editors, etc. Is there also a graph that shows the growth over time of the combined size (maybe in gigabytes) of all articles? (not talk pages, etc.) This, to me, would be the best overall indicator of Wikipedia's growth, rather than the number of articles, since more articles created means more articles to be enlarged and updated.—Anne Delong (talk) 14:22, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

is this any help? - X201 (talk) 14:37, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
@X201: I have lots of questions on these graphs, but the main one is: how can I see statistics more recent than 2006? Just curious. Ottawahitech (talk) 14:55, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Scroll your browser window from left to right. - X201 (talk) 15:04, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
@X201: Several of the charts stop at January 2010 - any idea why? GoingBatty (talk) 15:42, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Download as PDF failing[edit]

This was reported on the HelpDesk. The download as PDF feature is failing on the Madoff investment scandal article, but works OK on other articles. The eror message is "Status: Rendering process died with non zero code: 1". any ideas? - X201 (talk) 14:46, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for reporting this. The problem is tracked in phab:T74002. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 18:07, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Apparently caused by statement [[File:CAHIERS NO 6.pdf|alt=WALL STREET JOURNAL REPORT|thumb]] (recursive PDF?) --Boson (talk) 18:15, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
PS: The first German one under phab:T74002 also appears to be caused by an embedded file, the statement being the German equivalent of [[File:EU financial transaction tax.svg|thumb|bla bla]]]] (can be reproduced using that statement).--Boson (talk) 18:37, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-09[edit]

16:29, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Issue with history link for Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 February 4[edit]

For some reason, for the past couple of days, whenever I attempt to load the history page for Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 February 4 on my device's browser, my browser freezes and crashes. Can this issue be replicated by someone else, and if it can be replicated, can it be fixed? Steel1943 (talk) 20:20, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

It works fine for me on Linux/Firefox 22. —EncMstr (talk) 21:30, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Also me, Windows XP/Firefox 35.0.1 --Redrose64 (talk) 21:37, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Loads fine here too; Win 8.1/IE 11.

    The only thing "odd" I can report about opening that history page was the re-appearance of the cite-banner announcing Steward Elections when I know I "dismissed it" already right around the time of the issue/changes concerning the Hide Fundraising gadget a couple of days ago. -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:46, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Searching, dates, and bots[edit]

When you do a search on Wikipedia, under the search is a green date indicating when the page was last modified. This is a useful tool when searching discussion pages, as it enables you to search within a time frame. Unfortunately, bot edits update the last edited date, making it harder to brows by discussion date. Is there any way to make it so that bot edits do not trigger an update to the last edited date in search results? – Philosopher Let us reason together. 01:19, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

API request for listing per-user contributions[edit]

Is there an API or bulk-export version of Special:Contributions? —Steve Summit (talk) 03:17, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

mw:API:Usercontribs--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 07:02, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Perfect, thanks! —Steve Summit (talk) 12:17, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Importing a gadget[edit]

I tried to import Commons' TinEye gadget to my common.js page in this edit, but it isn't working. Any idea what I did wrong? – Philosopher Let us reason together. 04:50, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

You want, not, for starters. —Cryptic 05:01, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
That would be it. Thanks. – Philosopher Let us reason together. 21:30, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Weird bug at Template:RFC[edit]

Please look at Template talk:Rfc#Formatting bug, where an IP has discovered a strange formatting bug. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 05:47, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Please revert Special:Diff/648592168 if it doesn't solve the problem. –Be..anyone (talk) 06:28, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
It didn't. Per WP:TESTCASES, please use the template's sandbox for testing, don't do it on live templates; and per WP:MULTI, please discuss on the original thread, which is Template talk:Rfc#Formatting bug. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:29, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

May 2,014 cleanup tags[edit]

Notrees, Texas (got to love the name :-) is currently in the nonexistent Category:Articles with unsourced statements from May 2,014, along with two other articles. Why is it here, not in Category:Articles with unsourced statements from May 2014? The text string 014 appears only twice in the article: once in a citation (it was accessed last year) and once in the {{fact}} that's apparently to blame here, but the code appears flawless. Why would {{fact|date=May 2014}} (note the lack of a comma) put it in a 2,014 category? In another article from this category, Tangerine, Florida, the category gets added by this edit. As far as I can tell, the bot worked just normally and made no mistakes. Why is the comma added when it's not in the code? Nyttend (talk) 08:35, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

{{Infobox settlement}} expects the {{{population_total}}} to consist only of digits, and displays it using {{formatnum}}. This messes up the output of the {{fact}} tag. One possible fix is to move the tag to the {{{population_footnotes}}} field. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:18, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! Fixed the other article, an airport, as well. I also reported this to Anomie, since it first appeared when the bot tagged it; without even looking at the page or the diffs, he identified the problem correctly. Surely this isn't the only nonexistent category with this problem: I assume that other months and other types of cleanup categories have been mangled this way (e.g. Category:Wikipedia articles needing clarification from September 2,014, although that's empty), but I don't know how to search for them without manually examining every page individually. Is there a way to get a list of all pages that are included in nonexistent categories with names including "2,001" through "2,015"? Perhaps a database dump? Nyttend (talk) 15:01, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
The downloadable XML dumps won't help with this. Someone with SQL skills might be able to run a query for you. -- John of Reading (talk) 15:23, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
A "fuzzy" search does work, search for "statements from 2,013"~1 and following years (2013 seems to be earliest year with this problem), see extended search help. But of course a more professional SQL query would be better in the long run. GermanJoe (talk) 16:14, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
PS: Searching for the shorter "from 2,013"~1 will catch all maintenance categories, that follow the "... from month year" convention. A few false positives sneak in, but the results appear to be (almost) complete. GermanJoe (talk) 17:09, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Would it be easier to have a bot do it one at a time? I'm imagining that the bot creates a list by opening every subcategory of Category:Wikipedia maintenance categories sorted by month and expanding the name by adding "from MONTH Y,EAR". With this done, it simply checks every item on the list, and it logs any categories that have entries. There are currently 163 subcategories; with 15 possible years, and 12 possible months per year, this works out to 29,340 nonexistent categories that it would need to check. Reasonable or unreasonable? Nyttend (talk) 16:32, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
The easiest way is probably to just run a query like select distinct cl_to from categorylinks where cl_to like '%\_2,0__'; on Tool Labs. Doing that just now turned up the following:
So not that many categories to look at currently. I might look into writing a bot task to automatically fix the common cases, if someone wants to help by identifying any besides {{Infobox settlement|population total=}}. Anomie 19:02, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Getting the URL for a PDF[edit]

Google has changed the way it's links worked, at least I don't recall them working this way in the past, and PDFs no longer point to the document but an intermediate google page with the URL encoded in it. I'm trying to cite the paper "DARPA Paves the Way for U.S. Efforts in Ballistic Missile Defense", which if you Google, will find the document but if you click on it will not reveal the URL. In this case the complete URL is listed in green, but in every other case it runs out of that area and has been mangled. Does anyone know a simple way to get the original URL from Google? Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:41, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

@Maury Markowitz: There's a little down-arrow symbol next to the green URL. Click that, go to the cached page, and the full original URL will be listed at the top. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 13:54, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Perfect, thanks!. This also shows the article in my browser instead of download, which is an immediate improvement. Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:56, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
If you use Firefox: --NE2 19:42, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

!!!Fuck You!!! - search question[edit]

Why does typing a hash character # into the search box bring up !!!Fuck You!!! as one of the first results, while typing an exclamation mark ! – apparently the first character of that string – does not? Is this some sort of intentional Easter-egg feature? I don't mind, but ask because there was an email to OTRS about it. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 19:20, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Interesting, I vaguely recall some other unexpected result on commons, and when I try it here today I get a perfectly boring and correct "Number sign". Monobook, Chrome, almost no gadgets. –Be..anyone (talk) 19:35, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
My guess: since # is used for anchors, the search box ignores it and starts listing all articles. But if you type ! it uses some algorithm to determine which articles beginning with ! you're more likely to want. Note that !! gets you fucked in the seventh position. --NE2 19:40, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes most likely, # is invalid to start page titles with so it will probably strip that character at some point and search for everything. While ! possibly does some ranking in the results starting with !. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 19:44, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
'#' is one of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (technical restrictions)#Forbidden characters. The searchbox autocomplete for '#' produces the first 10 names at Special:Allpages. I guess this is a somewhat arbitrary consequence of an implementation detail and not a deliberate decision. I think Be..anyone made an actual search.[13] That gives me Number sign. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:23, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks to all – I should really have been able to work that out for myself. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:54, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

2015 Hackathon in France[edit]

Is anyone planning to go to the Hackathon in Lyon, France (23–25 May 2015)? The WMF devs are looking for some volunteers to partner with. People with all kinds of skills (including language and design skills) are needed, and you might get a chance to work with some of the WMF's rockstar devs. If you're interested, please read the linked pages about how to volunteer. (You can e-mail me if you need help figuring out how the process works.) Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:06, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Not sure where to look, so I'll be lazy and ask here. Have you left a similar question at fr:wp? fr:Special:Contributions/Whatamidoing (WMF) doesn't show me anything, but of course I know that someone else could have asked. Nyttend (talk) 01:18, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
This page is one of the central pages for reaching technically minded people from all over the world, which is why I chose it for the sole message I've posted. Also, these events seem to be, in practice, mostly English-speaking. But the information has been announced by other people/in other ways, too. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 23:38, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

CAPTCHA behaviour is broken[edit]

Lately, whenever I try to save an edit that includes a new external link, I get a red error message saying "Incorrect or missing CAPTCHA". This is despite not having been prompted to enter one. When I go to the bottom of the page and enter the CAPTCHA that does now appear, everything works. However, the sequence of events, which always used to offer a CAPTCHA prompt on save, is now broken. (talk) 02:00, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Which browser is this about? I assume you are not logged in when this happens? --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:31, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
It happens for me in both Chrome 40 and IE 11 under Win 7 when not logged in. Are you not seeing it? (talk) 12:06, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Anyone??? (talk) 12:04, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Unlabeled star is meaningless to newcomers and many advanced editors[edit]

At the top of my page there is an unlabeled star. When I hover over it I get a message stating, "Add this page to your watchlist." Why doesn't it bear a label so editors will know what it is supposed to do? I know (now), but for a long time I didn't. While I'm at it, there is a label marked "TW." I am surmising that this is short for "Twinkle," but really I have no idea what Twinkle is. Why must we have such ingroup labels at the tops of our pages? Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 06:51, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

That star is part of the "Vector" skin (explicitly designed to be compact); it's not found in the Monobook skin - the word "watch" is. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 08:17, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Also, there's a tooltip displayed when hovering over the star, which describes its purpose. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 08:22, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
I would say, what's wrong with the star, when you can hover over it to see what it does? And you must have enabled Twinkle for yourself if you see "TW" there. Twinkle is not enabled for all users, only those who choose to enable it. The "TW" abbreviation is used simply to save space, not as an intentional obfuscation measure. — This, that and the other (talk) 13:03, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
The star icon has become a browser standard: Firefox, IE and others use it for bookmarks. The watchlist icon was chosen as an analogue to bookmarks. --  Gadget850 talk 13:24, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Chrome and IE use it so IMHO it makes sense for us too, As for Twinkle - It's easier and with the greatest respect I'd imagine 90% know what it is so not really seeing any need to change the star or even consider doing so. But that's just my 2¢. –Davey2010Talk 13:38, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I know very well what they both mean, but I do agree if I didn't I would be upset when viewing from my mobile in desktop mode where I can't 'just hover' over either to see. I'm guessing if I was first editing from a tablet I'd be upset too since it is another touch device without hover. I'd suspect that it would be a good idea to include in our vector.css/js a way to determine if the user is on a touch device and 'use our words' instead of symbols. Just my 2cp on it, and I really don't care anyways except I was a little annoyed by the direction of this discussion. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 13:43, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Technical 13 - "little annoyed by the direction of this discussion" - Well I'm assuming it's me - I've read my comment 4 times and still see nothing wrong with it so could you explain what I've said that's ticked you off?.... –Davey2010Talk 14:08, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
  • For once I have to agree with T13 here. Every other function on the Wikipedia page is represented by words, not an icon (at least until you get into edit mode and use the RefToolbar). It's kind of jarring. Besides, mystery meat navigation is never a good thing. By default, I think that Mw-watch-icon.svgWatch and Mw-unwatch-icon.svgUnwatch would be better. --Ahecht (TALK
    ) 14:22, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

I think GeorgeLouis makes a really good point!

1) Watching articles really, really matters. Watching articles, looking at your watchlist is the engine of Wikipedia! If nobody watches articles, they degrade. Recent Changes patrol is not able to be our only quality control, and page watchers are regularly better qualified to assess the merits of an edit. I would even say that it is erroneous to quantify "user activity" or "editor attrition" by number of new user registrations, or by new users with +1 edits, but that "regular users" is the important metric: "users that watch articles". I don't know how to count those users, but for the trends we can take these old stats 2013/2014 about article numbers (in thousands=k) and number of "superuser" (phantasyname for user with >100 edits per month) and calculate the number of articles "to watch" per superuser (in thousands=k) :

wiki language k articles September 2014 k articles July 2013 user >100e/m (mean January–June 2013) user >100e/M (mean June–August 2014)[14] k articles /superuser July 2013 k articles /superuser September 2014
en english 4594 4270 3281 3056 1,3 1,5
de german 1752 1603 1023 846 1,6 2,1
fr french 1540 1402 785 720 1,8 2,1
ru russian 1143 1020 659 519 1,5 2,2
es spanish 1122 1027 499 488 2,1 2,3
it italian 1140 1044 436 361 2,4 3,2
ja japanese 924 864 344 330 2,5 2,8
zh chinese 784 703 281 305 2,5 2,6
pl polish 1062 976 257 215 3,8 4,9
nl dutch 1789 1672 242 203 6,9 8,8
pt portuguese 838 786 188 152 4,2 5,5
uk ukrain 523 451 140 142 3,2 3,7
sv swedish 1891 1158 124 105 9,3 18
he hebrew 161 148 114 116 1,3 1,4
hu hungarian 266 243 114 104 2,1 2,6
ko korean 287 243 99 94 2,5 3,1
cs czech 303 269 93 77 2,9 3,9
ar arabic 318 235 88 93 2,7 3,4
fi finnish 354 327 81 81 4 4,4
fa persian 420 310 75 71 4,1 5,9
ca catalan 436 405 70 65 5,8 6,7
no norwegian (Bokmål) 429 388 69 63 5,6 6,8
tr turkish 234 213 59 59 3,6 4
vi vietnamese 1108 796 50 51 15,9 21,7
bg bulgarian 165 149 47 31 3,2 5,3

You notice the wikis with lots of botgenerated articles, but this is not my point here: More articles over time and not more users over time = problem to watch articles and maintain quality. In July 2013 every "superuser" would have to watch 1300 articles, to have all articles watched (by all 3281 "superusers"). In August 2014 every "superuser" would have to watch 1500 articles, to have all articles watched (by all 3056 "superusers"). We need watchers!

2) There is another aspect, that may be a problem. New users attention could be diverted by the more prominent colourful notifications (introduced in 2013). And while the notifications are about me-me-me (my edits, my conversations, my thanks, my status, my reverts, ...), the watchlist is about the articles, about actual Wikipedia content. In the old days, there was only the watchlist and the users talkpage - now the notifications could distract contributors from that. I found some research about the introduction of notifications in 2013, which seems to support my concerns that the competition for user attention between the "me-me-me-notifications-bling-icon" vs. "static watchlist-link" has harmful effects on productivity: meta:Research:Notifications/Experiment_1#Summary: Our results suggest that the presence of Notifications effectively increases the amount of activity that new users will engage in (more edits, more edit sessions and more hours spent editing). However, the effect of Notifications on the productivity of new users is unclear. On average, users with Notifications were less likely to make productive contributions to articles, but in our experiment, a few highly productive newcomers made up some of the difference. Our results also show that newcomers with Notifications enabled are more burdensome. They made more edits that were reverted by others and they were more likely to be blocked.

3) I think showing the word "watch" (or not) is the kind of small change that you don't notice if you have clicked the watchstar dozends of times, but that can have a real impact for how new users use Wikipedia and how much they are "dragged in" by the watchlist.

4) I think we should do A/B testing to find out if there is an effect for new users. It would be a very small change, there can't be any harm and the test would be limited to a certain period. What do you think?

5) Another way to make people notice the watch-star could be to display the watch-star on the Hovercard (see beta-features Hovercard, really cool feature). --Atlasowa (talk) 17:52, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

@Atlasowa: Today, my watchlist passed 20,000. Will this help lower the minimum for other people? --Redrose64 (talk) 19:42, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Ha, I like you :-D --Atlasowa (talk) 21:34, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Redrose64: Just saw that you're no. 419 of Wikipedia:Database_reports/Most-watched users, you're royalty! I definitely think that people should stop watching Little Barrier Island (~4000 watchers, Wikipedia:Database_reports/Most-watched_pages), go watch a bird! (prefererably botgenerated and from Africa) --Atlasowa (talk) 21:51, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
It's out of date. I now have 208 watchers, according to page information. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Thank you! Surely we could replace the star with "Watch" or "Unwatch," as the case may be?? 22:47, 25 February 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by GeorgeLouis (talkcontribs)
Little Barrier Island is the result of pagemove vandalism (see WP:STOCKS); the Main Page got moved to Hauturu/Little Barrier Island some time back, so everyone watching the Main Page ended up with both pages on their watchlists. Probably a lot of the watchers are no longer active, since we don't currently have a ton of active editors who were active when the event happened. Nyttend (talk) 02:32, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Interesting to see that nobody notices that the word "Watch" outside of the context of MediaWiki is probably less 'informing' and meaningful (so even more mystery meat) than the 'star' icon is to all people. If I remember correctly, that was confirmed by user testing in 2009 and actually led the Vector team to switch away from that word to a more common representation that people know from bookmarks etc. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 13:27, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
[citation needed] :-) TheDJ: link? --Atlasowa (talk) 22:18, 26 February 2015 (UTC),_questions_and_answers#Where_did_the_watch_tab_go? Still looking for the data, though. --Atlasowa (talk) 17:39, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Wow. Many old-timers only dimly remember our pre-WP days, which is why software is tested on the innocent. So, the whole concept of article watching, is what newbies don't get. Once that's understood, the question of star or word becomes a small one. And we've stumbled into a slightly related topic, the poor interface for mobile. That's one reason why I seldom use my Android phone for editing, and not often my iPad. The idea of an intermediate level of interface, showing as much as my real computer does but not relying on hover box or tooltip (the distinction makes little difference) is appealing but our clever and industrious software developers are already 'way behind the likes of Facebook or GMail in serving the various platforms. It seems a bit much to add to their load. Jim.henderson (talk) 13:49, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

We are getting into some serious and arcane in-groupishness here. How and where do I make an official request to replace the star with a word or (better) a phrase? GeorgeLouis (talk) 17:15, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
phab:. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:17, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

"looking at your watchlist is the engine of Wikipedia" I have over 8000 pages on my watchlist. It's not quite as useful as you might image. :-) Maury Markowitz (talk) 00:23, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Maury Markowitz, I'm dead serious about "watchlists = the engine of Wikipedia". The individual watchlist is a small cog in the machine, but together watchlists are the engine. Because they feed editor attention. We can see the effect of watchlists in "editing burst" at articles. Even after bots: articles show up in watchlists and are checked and edited by other editors afterwards. Editing is contagious :-) --Atlasowa (talk) 18:14, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

mw:Mobile_Beta/Watchlist/Logging#Conclusions :

Account creation hooks like the watchlist star are an effective way to draw more new users to sign up
Over half (56%) of new users creating an account on mobile came directly from the watchlist star CTA. This number is an underestimate of users coming from the CTA, since we were not logging users who first visited the login link from the CTA and then tapped on Create account from the login page.
New users may not understand or value the watchlist star feature as much as existing Wikimedians
The vast majority of one-time watchlist star users were brand-new Wikimedians who had registered via mobile. However, the vast majority of users who tapped the star more than once were existing users who already had a Wikimedia account.
Very few users are unwatching pages from their watchlist view
Either most users are not finding their watchlist view, or the unwatch-from-watchlist feature is not useful for those who do find it.
Overall, the watchlist star hook + account creation has proven to be a very effective new account creation funnel, helping arrest the year-over-year decline of new account creations
Since the full deployment of account creation and watchlist star to the mobile web, new account creations have held steady at about 800 global registrations/400 English Wikipedia registrations per day. These additional account are pushing the hourly registration rates up to 2012 levels.

Maybe we should have:

  • Mw-watch-icon.svgWatch
  • Mw-unwatch-icon.svgUnwatch and above:
  • Watchlist icon.svgWatchlist

And when you click watch, the star starts *spinning* AND above the watchlist icon should *blink* or *glow*, so that you see these things are connected. --Atlasowa (talk) 17:53, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Automatic capitalization of title-initial Unicode characters[edit]

Has the automatic capitalization of initial letters in titles been changed recently? ɱ is no longer autocapitalized to . Compare this to ɔ, which correctly becomes Ɔ. Gorobay (talk) 15:23, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Examples, please. Your links are redirects to articles on the characters. --  Gadget850 talk 15:26, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
The capitalized form of ⟨ɱ⟩ is ⟨Ɱ⟩. Therefore, ɱ should be the same page as , but it is not. Similarly, redirects to Insular S, but its lowercase form () does not. Similarly, is an article, but its lowercase form does not exist. That means that some characters are not being capitalized properly. Gorobay (talk) 15:49, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Look under the title of the target articles — go to ɔ and you correctly see (Redirected from Ɔ) (because it capitalises the letter), but for some weird reason, going to ɱ provides a message of (Redirected from ɱ). Or click the link, to examine the redirect directly; you'll see an uppercase Ɔ and a lowercase ɱ for the page titles. Nyttend (talk) 17:17, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Couple of years back ɱ (talk · contribs) had a lot of trouble because the system suddenly started uppercasing their username to  (talk · contribs). I believe they couldn't edit their user page or access their contributions, and other things were not possible. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:21, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
It seems that the lowercase user was renamed to uppercase in early 2013, but the lowercase user still seems to exist with zero edits on other projects. Very confusing. --Stefan2 (talk) 17:26, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Found it, Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 105#Link in history says user does not exist. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:34, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Capitalization only works with character pairs encoded in Unicode 4.0. I guess some MediaWiki config file thinks it’s still 2003. However, Utf8Case.ser (the version in MediaWiki 1.25wmf17) maps ⟨ɱ⟩ to ⟨Ɱ⟩, so it should still work. What else controls capitalization? Gorobay (talk) 20:32, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

I tested this on my local test installation of the MediaWiki software and it works fine (the page title "ɱ" automatically transforms to "Ɱ"). There must be something wrong with the way WMF wikis in particular are configured. — This, that and the other (talk) 23:44, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
The function uc (which I assume is the right function) looks for PHP’s built-in mb_strtoupper before falling back to Utf8Case.ser. Wikipedia currently uses HHVM 3.3.1, which includes mb_strtoupper. HHVM 3.3.1 does not support the latest version of Unicode. What version of PHP or HHVM are you using? Gorobay (talk) 04:32, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Gorobay, you can find a list of (most) version numbers at Special:Version. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 23:47, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Right, that’s how I knew Wikipedia uses HHVM 3.3.1. I was asking This, that and the other for specifics about their local test. Gorobay (talk) 02:20, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
I use Zend PHP version 5.5.15. Looks like we need to get someone to look at WMF's build of HHVM. I filed phab:T91056 to track the issue. — This, that and the other (talk) 11:22, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Viewing KML data in Google Maps[edit]

It appears that links to - such as the one titled "Map all microformatted coordinates" in {{GeoGroup}} - will stop working soon. I've started a thread at Template talk:GeoGroup#Viewing KML data in Google Maps. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:55, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

PDF/book creator[edit]

For the past several days, every time I try to download and generate a PDF file for an article(s) I get a Wikimedia Foundation Error result. Also, every time I try to generate a pdf file with one column I get a Rendering failed result. When I switch to two columns there are no problems -- until recently, that is. As I said, I'm getting a Wiki'Foundation error all the time now. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 23:12, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Is this the same as #Download as PDF failing above? --Redrose64 (talk) 23:21, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Tables just changed (using monobook)[edit]

I use monobook, and the default cell height and padding seem to have changed. The font size of the text appears to be the same, but the cells are definitely bigger. Where could a change have been made that would affect this for me? -Niceguyedc Go Huskies! 01:59, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

It's the same for me on Vector. Also, the bullets on bulleted lists are smaller (like a middot) and appearing to be at the bottom of the line instead of the usual larger size centered vertically on the line. Imzadi 1979  02:25, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
OS and browser please? -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 10:21, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
The bullets are now SVG instead of PNG. There is one known issue where Webkit on iOS does not size the bullets correctly. Webkit bug report. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 10:28, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
I'm using Safari version 8.0.3 on MacOS X Yosemite (10.10.2). Firefox (v. 14.0.1) does not have the bullet size issue, however the bullets are still slightly off center vertically, putting them slightly too low, but not as low as in Safari where the are at the bottom of the line. In Chrome (v. 40.0.2214.115), the appearance is the same as Firefox: right size but slightly too low on the line. Just for kicks, I also looked in Opera (v. 12.12 ), and it's the same as Chrome and Firefox. The bullets look the same in Safari on an iPad running iOS 8.1.3 as they do on Safari running on the desktop. Imzadi 1979  15:46, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

@Edokter: I'm using Windows 7 and Firefox 36. I don't actually notice anything different with the bullets, just the extra size of rows in tables. -Niceguyedc Go Huskies! 14:06, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

@Imzadi1979, Niceguyedc: The table cells for .wikitable have had their padding increased... doubled even. I found only this commit, but cannot find a accompanying task that discusses this change. (The bullets only affects Vector.) -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 14:43, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Yep, the previous padding was pretty tight. You can see examples at testwiki:Wikitable padding. This change shouldn't have broken anything. Please provide links here or file Phabricator tasks if you see issues. --MZMcBride (talk) 15:50, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
While we are on this, where is the repository for shared.css? The catalog still links to SVN, and I can't find main on git. --  Gadget850 talk 16:02, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
[15] this? It's on mediawiki core repo. Glaisher (talk) 16:09, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! Since I keep referring to it, created {{shared.css}}. --  Gadget850 talk 16:20, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Is this a permanent change? I'm working with tables all the time on wikipedia and am quite upset by this change. Bigger tables don't even fot on a page anymore. Personally I think the tables harder to read and it looks untidy. Isn't there any way too make the table cells the size you want? Jahn1234567890 (talk) 00:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
@Edokter, MZMcBride: I also agree that the change should be reverted - Jahn1234567890's note on its untidy look is well take. It is also harder to follow visually, especially when zoomed in - as I have to because of vision difficulties - as the distance between the text and the lines is increased. Finally, vertical vs. horizontal whitespace is now unbalanced, as dmeonstrated in the small table at List of Governors of Iowa#Living former governors. – Philosopher Let us reason together. 01:48, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Noted this through the notably wider infobox element, which contains a 6-column table. (see Uranium). Considerably widened. 1. Not a bad thing per se, except that relative image size now changed (i.e. it did not change absolutely), and there might be a guideline saying something about ideal infobox width ("33% body pagewidth max"?). The infobox now has fewer unforced line-wraps, but its whitespace is growing and growing. I hope this is within grand page-design philosophy. 2. Then I went to check a table that needs all 100% page width: {{Periodic table}} in Periodic table. No effect so OK, because it has cellpadding= set (without this, the wider padding is breaking bad, undesired & useless). This leads to these points: a) are there similar tables (using & needing 100% width) that are gravely affected this way, because they are without cellpadding set?, and b) if I remember correct, cellpadding= is deprecated. Though this depends on it. 3. Btw, is the padding in the infobox enlarged too (mostly visible with section headers)? Conclude: nothing broken so far for me, some questions left. -DePiep (talk) 08:14, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
{{Periodic table}} should not be affected because it's not using .wikitable, not because of the obsolete attributes being used. I did replace those attributes with proper CSS. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 09:34, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
I get this. (Had to squeeze out some ws). -DePiep (talk) 10:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
What is this central point where deprecated code (like this) is listed? I only meet such statements off and on. -DePiep (talk) 20:28, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia:HTML5. SiBr4 (talk) 21:09, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
My biggest problem with the table change is that this affects every single table on wikipedia. I don't understand why it was changed in the first place. The previous table size was just fine. And if you found that padding too small you could adjust the width by yourself. Now you have no option at all. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 14:08, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes. Why not make it 8px? -DePiep (talk) 20:28, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi Jahn1234567890. You can trivially reduce wikitable padding in your personal user CSS. In general, I think the increased padding looks better. The cited example above (List of Governors of Iowa#Living former governors) looks good to me. --MZMcBride (talk) 20:47, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Is there a central place where this whitespace philisophy is discussed? 'I think .. looks better' is not enough to me. -DePiep (talk) 20:52, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
I dunno about a central place. testwiki:Wikitable padding is where I did my testing. I don't think anything broke and there seems to be general consensus that the increased padding (0.3em 0.4em instead of 0.2em) is an improvement. There are quite a few studies that suggest that adding whitespace improves readability. Maybe that would be a better argument? --MZMcBride (talk) 20:58, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
I'm lost. "I dunno", "don't think anything broke", "there seems to be general consensus" (where, where, WHERE I repeat). If this is the way classes are set, why are we talking anyway? Who cares. (and let me note that you still did not address my specific points). Make it 8px, I say. -DePiep (talk) 21:04, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
@MZMcBride: For results tables like this Dave Marcis the change makes tables like this look really untidy. Personally I'm unhappy with this change because with results tables in general this change makes those tables unnecessary big. But how would reduce wikitable padding in my personal user CSS? I haven't worked with this before. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 21:28, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Before I forget. Why was the table padding changed? It was just fine the way it was. I mean this change effects every wikitable on wikipedia. I think doubling the padding is a way to big change Jahn1234567890 (talk) 22:02, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Cremation or burial?[edit]

Why can't I delete Cremation or burial?? When I choose delete it just reloads the page. I can delete other pages but not this one. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 07:28, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Not quite sure. I just did and it worked fine. Something with your browser or personal Javascript maybe? Seraphimblade Talk to me 08:11, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
That's strange I deleted another page with no problem. I'll just put it down to sunspots as they get blamed for almost everything in the Arctic. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 08:19, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
I'm guessing it's a problem with '?' which usually indicates a query string in url's. MediaWiki encodes '?' in pagenames as %3F to avoid confusion but maybe your browser is still confused. Which browser? Does the same happen for Quo vadis? PrimeHunter (talk) 19:30, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
I was using Chrome Version 40.0.2214.115 on Ubuntu 14.04 but I just tried in Firefox 36.0 on the Quo vadis page and got the same result. This time I checked the url and noticed it was I'll have to try later on Windows. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 23:01, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
@CambridgeBayWeather: That really is odd, since I'm using Ubuntu 14.10 with Chromium 40.0.2214.111. Are you using Twinkle or any other scripts, or just the regular Mediawiki delete button? Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:22, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
It's indeed an issue with '?' but probably not in your browser. Your link doesn't work for me either. How do you reach that link and what is your skin? I'm in Vector and click the "More" tab and then "Delete". That gives me which works. Your url structure works on page names not containing '?', for example It may be a MediaWiki bug that a query part cannot be added to a url of form It also fails for as non-admins can test. The "View history" tab gives me which does work, but I think should also have worked, like works. MediaWiki apparently chokes on the %3F? combination where %3F is an encoded '?' ending the pagename, and '?' is the start of a query part. Or maybe there is some general url rule I'm unaware of which disallows '%3F?' in url's. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:49, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
The %3F? combination works on this wiki with an old MediaWiki version: says MediaWiki: 1.5.8. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:24, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
The problem is not restricted to '?' at the end of the pagename. should have produced the page history of ? Nycticebus linglom. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:56, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
User:PrimeHunter. To get the non working link I just followed the original Quo vadis? link you provided. I then clicked on the delete and it reloaded the page with the non working link. I'm using Vector as well. I notice you said that you clicked on the "More" tab and then "Delete". On the "More" I see the only option is "Purge". The option to delete is on the "Page" tab and says "Delete page". Also the works for me as well. I looked through my deletion log and found this, I did see at least one more with the ? at the end, and this with the ? in the middle. So at one time I was able to delete pages with the ? at the end. The other links on your 01:49 post all work the same for me as they did for you. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 03:19, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
The "Page" tab is not part of MediaWiki. It is made by "Add Page and User dropdown menus to the toolbar" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets. The gadget is disabled by default. I have tried to enable it and get the same non-working url as you on the Page tab. The gadget uses MediaWiki:Gadget-dropdown-menus.js which uses MediaWiki:Gadget-dropdown-menus-vector.js for Vector users, but the bug is in MediaWiki and should be fixed there. Question marks in pagenames are rare and I'm not sure it's worth coding the gadget to work around the bug by using url's with /w/index.php?title= instead of /wiki/. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:33, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
OK that was it. I removed the gadget and was able to delete I found that with the gadget enabled it is possible to move the page and not leave a redirect. That deleted the ? page and then of course I was able to delete the page without the ?, Given that there are several things I like about the gadget and the very few times that the ? comes up I'll leave it enabled and use the move workaround. Thanks for all your help. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 03:48, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Moves are made with a special page and not a query string, so the bug does not interfere. Protect and Purge on the Page tab are affected. It probably also affects several other scripts and tools. I'm not proficient with Phabricator. Can somebody see if it's there, and add it if not? PrimeHunter (talk) 04:18, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
I'm not seeing a problem with the Protect from the page tab. It worked fine yesterday. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 04:58, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
On a pagename with a question mark? The bug is only known to affect that. PrimeHunter (talk) 05:11, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I can fix this for MediaWiki:Gadget-dropdown-menus-vector.js, but I do not maintain the non-vector version if that is what you are using. Because of the same bug all internal links involving a page name with a ? will not work, so it's worth fixing for the interim I think. MusikAnimal talk 06:23, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Should be fixed now. Thanks for the report! MusikAnimal talk 07:05, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
This should be fixed in core though... -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 12:38, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks User:MusikAnimal that works now. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 16:18, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

New CSS in Firefox[edit]

Hi all; if anybody here uses Firefox, but has not yet upgraded from Firefox 35 to FF 36, please describe the appearance of the underline in this text. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:57, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm still on 35, on Ubuntu. Here's what it looks like for me. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 10:07, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Chrome 40 and FF 35; it is just a straight black underline. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 10:10, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Updated to FF 40 now... Spell checker. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 10:19, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, I thought as much: I upgraded from FF 35 to FF 36 overnight, and what I now see is a wavy red underline. This means that as from version 36, Firefox now implements CSS Text Decoration Module Level 3 but don't rely on it, since it's still a W3C Candidate Recommendation, not yet a W3C Recommendation. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:20, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
FF34 still doesn't show the text-decoration-color and text-decoration-style, consistent with the MDN compatibility table. (talk) 10:24, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Also noteworthy: FF36 finally fixed their longstanding gradient bug. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 10:30, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Pale Moon 25.2.1 (Gecko/20150122, its the 64-bit non-chromified Firefox, highly recommended) still see the straight black underline. — Dispenser 16:30, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Chrome 40.0.2214.115m (current version) and Opera 12.17 (also current) both show straight black. Chrome's Inspect element feature says "Unknown property name" for both text-decoration-color: and text-decoration-style:. So it looks like Firefox is ahead of the others for those properties. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:57, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Note that Firefox has supported these properties since V6, but prefixed with -moz-. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 17:32, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Save button placement[edit]

I frequently find that after editing, in trying to hit the "save" button, I will inadvertently hit the adjoining link to CC-BY-SA-3.0 License. Can we somehow provide a little safe space around what is arguably the most important widget on Wikipedia? LeadSongDog come howl! 13:53, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

@LeadSongDog: What I did was to add
div#editpage-copywarn { display: none; }
to Special:MyPage/common.css. This hides the block of text from 'By clicking the "Save page" button' down to 'a hyperlink or URL is sufficient for CC BY-SA 3.0 attribution.' --Redrose64 (talk) 14:24, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Most users probably have the links in MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyrightwarning on the first line to the right of the buttons in the edit window. I don't think we should add spaces in the interface for everybody just to avoid that some users get a link in the vicinity of a button. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:18, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
That's why I suggested personal customisation. But MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyrightwarning isn't to the right of the buttons, it's directly above, in both Vector and MonoBook. If LeadSongDog doesn't want to hide that block of text, they can increase the gap below it with a rule like
div#editpage-copywarn { margin-bottom: 2em; }
or perhaps
input#wpSave { margin-top: 2em; }
- again, put the chosen rule in Special:MyPage/common.css. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:30, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for the suggestions on simplifying my life, but of course personal customization does nothing for the vast majority of users who are not logged in. Can we not simply use the same space presently above the copyright warning, but put it below it instead? The problem is particularly egregious when working in Safari on the iPad with fat fingers.... It probably runs afoul of some wp:accessibility principles too. LeadSongDog come howl! 16:11, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
The problem would only affect users working on 4:3 resolutions as far as I can tell, on 16:9 and 16:10 resolutions there is no link close to the save page button. Sam Walton (talk) 16:17, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps, but 1024x768 is supposed to be our most basic viewport size. Looking at the WCAG, one finds that we've missed G178: Providing controls on the Web page that allow users to incrementally change the size of all text on the page up to 200 percent. Though that wouldn't be the ideal solution to this particular issue, it really should be addressed. More to the point, though, is G155: Providing a checkbox in addition to a submit button. We fall afoul of that (on every viewport size) simply by making the irrevocable agreement on "Save page" not require a dismiss checkbox. LeadSongDog come howl! 17:03, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
LeadSongDog, can you clarify your request? Do you want an extra blank line underneath the copyright notice, or do you want the copyright notice underneath the Save button?
Also, changing anything about the copyright statement requires approval from Legal, so we'd have to check with them before anything could be done. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:01, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Not suggesting any change to the notice, just looking for some space above the "Save page" button to separate it from the CC BY-SA 3.0 License link. If vertical space is an issue, reducing the gap below "Watch this page" or below the "Save page" would do it. LeadSongDog come howl! 01:20, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
I'm not a lawyer and don't work for WMF but I guess the legal concern is that By clicking the "Save page" button, you agree to... should be close to the "Save page" button so contributors are clearly warned of what they agree to. The text also starts above the button for me. Earlier I meant that the part containing the links is not near the Save button on my screen where the line wraps after the last link on "GFDL". On narrow screens/windows or with large fonts the line may wrap earlier and place a link near the Save button. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:40, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Well that's the real argument for having a separate checkbox for "I understand" before enabling the save page button, but that's a rather larger change than 2 or 3 en of white space. LeadSongDog come howl! 03:10, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Colors in vector skin?[edit]

Hello, I need some help please (Windows XP, FF 36, Vector skin). For some reason all colors within my Wikipedia windows are brighter and/or messed up. For example: WP:PR usually had a light green background color for me, but now is very light gray, almost white. The documentation box in template:cite web was light green, but is now very light blue. Project banners on talkpages have been turquiose / light greenish and are now bright yellow. The Wiki browser page as a whole "looks" brighter. Any idea, where to look for such settings or how to reset them to the "old" status? (I tried to reset brightness and contrast on my monitor and graphic settings, but with no success). GermanJoe (talk) 14:36, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

I have Win 8.1, FF36 and Vector. I see no changes. {{documentation}} still has the same light green/blue background.      --  Gadget850 talk 15:01, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for checking, Gadget850. I did a complete color recalibration in my monitor setup and that somehow fixed the problem. I still don't know, how the settings got corrupted to begin with, but never mind - it's OK again :). GermanJoe (talk) 15:20, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Did you upgrade graphics drivers (either manually or through Windows Update)? I had this problem about 6 years ago on XP with new NVidia drivers defaulting to some whacky color settings. --Ahecht (TALK
) 20:36, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Only one minor non-graphical update yesterday (that I know of), but I'll check this more closely. Thanks for the tip. GermanJoe (talk) 04:39, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


Can somebody give me a link about this kind of patterns: %s%((.-)%) (example from Template:Title disambig text)? I would like to understand them and not ask questions "how to do that or that" :) --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 14:42, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

The template says {{#invoke:String|match|{{{1}}}|%s%((.-)%)||-1|ignore_errors=true}}. That means it uses the match function of Module:String. The documentation at Module:String#match has three links under "For information on constructing Lua patterns". PrimeHunter (talk) 15:06, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
So obvious. Thanks! --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 15:33, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, I tweaked pattern in the template, and then protected it, as I noticed it was used in Template:Disambiguation which has more than 100,000 transclusions. Hopefully that was something along the lines of what you were looking to do... — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 03:14, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

@Mr. Stradivarius: I'm assuming you didn't bother testing that one.

  • Original on "Foo (bar)": {{#invoke:String|match|Foo (bar)|%s%((.-)%)||-1|ignore_errors=true}} -> bar
  • Your version on "Foo (bar)": {{#invoke:String|match|Foo (bar)|^.*%s%((.-)%)||-1|ignore_errors=true}} ->

You broke it. Reverted. And for the record, the "-1" was already there to get the last match. Dragons flight (talk) 04:04, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

@Dragons flight: Oops. Sorry, yes, I should have tested that properly. Thanks for catching it. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 04:18, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
No biggie. Though, I did get a kick out of the fact you broke that template and then immediately protected the broken version. Dragons flight (talk) 04:28, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Does that qualify for WP:STOCKS? I can see the caption now - "Mr. Stradivarius for the when-it's-broken-it-stays-broken award"... — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 04:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
In case you are curious, the problem appears to be that the use of a match selection index (in this case, "-1") is incompatible with the use of the start anchor tag "^".
  • {{#invoke:String|match|Foo (bar)|^.*%s%((.-)%)|||ignore_errors=true}} -> bar
That's a pretty subtle thing to miss, but does show the value of double checking the result. Dragons flight (talk) 04:47, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Is there a such parser function/magic word?[edit]

I'm not sure exactly where to ask this, so I thought this would be the best place: Is there a magic word/parser function that automatically detects the target of a redirect (and returns that value) if the page which the magic word/parser function is placed is a redirect? I'm just wondering since there's an edit I would like to perform on {{Db-redirnone}}, but I can only do it properly if that magic word/parser function exists. Steel1943 (talk) 20:56, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

I don't think so, unless H:MW is out of date. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:05, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict) No magic word AFAIK, though there is a Lua script that does that. SiBr4 (talk) 21:08, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
@SiBr4: Thanks for letting me know about that Lua module. However, I tested it out, and I cannot use it for my intended purpose since I cannot use the parser function {{{FULLPAGENAME}}} for the "redirect-page-name". I'm going to ask this on the module's talk page. Thanks again for finding this. Steel1943 (talk) 21:55, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Never mind SiBr4 ... it work as I need it to (after a 2nd test). Thanks again! Steel1943 (talk) 21:59, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Neither using the page the module is on as parameter nor using magic words fails by itself. However, placing any text above the redirect breaks the redirect, so the module returns the current page name. Therefore you'll need something else for the deletion template to work. SiBr4 (talk) 08:42, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

What is my mouseover telling me?[edit]

On Safari, when I hover over a inter-wiki link I see a pop-up that appears. The text in the popup is identical to the link text - it does not display either the URL or the "real" link below it. For instance, the link to Point Magu in one of my articles points to Naval Air Station Point Mugu, but this does not appear in the popup. Anyone know what this is and what it's for? Maury Markowitz (talk) 23:30, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

I suspect you are using wrong terminology. Please post a link to the article with your example, and say where on the article you see it. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:42, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Maury Markowitz, are you using Vector (default) or Monobook as your Wikipedia skin? WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:12, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
I think monobook. The article is Nike Zeus, look for Point Magu. Maury Markowitz (talk) 00:14, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
When I just looked at the page LIM-49 Nike Zeus, and placed my mouse over Point Mugu, the pop-up worked (showing a redirect to Point Mugu, California and the first paragraph of that article). If you are you saying that the popup is just a text repeat of the text of the link, what may be happening is that the page hasn't completely loaded, or the server is busy; at least, that's when it happens to me from time to time. --Arxiloxos (talk) 00:25, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
The report is very confused. An interwiki link is a link to another wiki. This is apparently about a wikilink, i.e. a link to another English Wikipedia page. Nike Zeus is not an article, it is a redirect to LIM-49 Nike Zeus. The string "Point Magu" does not occur in LIM-49 Nike Zeus. The string "Point Mugu" occurs twice. Once without being linked and once as an unpiped link Point Mugu which redirects to Point Mugu, California and not to Naval Air Station Point Mugu. I guess this is what really happens for Maury: On the article LIM-49 Nike Zeus he hovers over "Point Mugu" in the "Testing" section and if he clicks it then he goes to Point Mugu, California, but the mouseover only says "Point Mugu". I guess Arxiloxos has enabled either "Navigation popups" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets or "Hovercards" Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-betafeatures, and Maury Markowitz has neither. If you have neither then you get the same as logged out users: A small box with the name of the link target and nothing else. The link in LIM-49 Nike Zeus says [[Point Mugu]] which renders as Point Mugu. The small box says "Point Mugu" exactly as it's supposed to. Point Mugu is a redirect to Point Mugu, California but the small box doesn't examine that. If it had been a piped link [[Point Mugu, California|Point Mugu]] which renders as Point Mugu, then the small box would have said "Point Mugu, California". PrimeHunter (talk) 00:58, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Moving over a salted page (redux)[edit]

I'd like to revive this thread.

Summary: When an admin moves a page to a salted target, there is no warning that the page is salted. (I tested it myself and saw no warning.) I'm not sure if the target remains salted.

Case in point: [16], [17]

A warning box would have made User:Necrothesp aware of an old AfD. He then would likely have made others aware of that at the new AfD.

Can this be fixed? Bug report? Thoughts? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:09, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

To your q "I'm not sure if the target remains salted", no - because salt can only be applied to the title of a non-existent page; once a page is moved to that title, it's no longer the title of a non-existent page. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:08, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi, Redrose64. I see. And if it is deleted again? Is the redlink then salted again for non-admins? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:51, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
No, it's not; and I've just confirmed it at User:Cryptic/test1 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs). —Cryptic 22:02, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Thank you, Cryptic. So, how do we get this fixed. This is the second post about this, and it seems to be getting just as ignored as the first one. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:06, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Posted at
Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:34, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Bullet points[edit]

Wp bullet issue.png

When you look at the bullet points in for instance this AFD Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/New Downs - Are they extremely tiny ?,
As you can see from the picture they're absolutely tiny for me so I'm not sure if something here's changed or it's something to do with my laptop/chrome settings?,
Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 03:33, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

They appear at the normal size for me. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 03:35, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
There is some discussion of this at the top of #Tables just changed (using monobook). – Philosopher Let us reason together. 03:40, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Mr. Stradivarius,
Philosopher - It actually appears to be a Chrome issue I think ?, I tried IE and they're normal but when I try Chrome logged out it still seems tiny, The font settings are all normal, I'll wipe everything and see if that does the trick, –Davey2010Talk 03:46, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Forgot to say I'm using Vector, Anyway nope all still the same, Well it looks like I partially have the Monobook issue...Just in Vector Face-grin.svg, Ah well thanks anyway ) –Davey2010Talk 04:44, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
It's a Webkit issue; Chrome fixed this last year (in Blink), so that should not be a problem (unless you have a really old Chrome version). -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 09:43, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi Edokter - Nope I'm using the latest version as far as I know (34.0.1847.116), Thanks, –Davey2010Talk 17:35, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Davey2010, that is old! The latest version is 40. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 17:47, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes, as I noted at #New CSS in Firefox above, Chrome 40.0.2214.115m is current version. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:51, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Edokter Eh seriously?, I've been updating chrome the moment the 3 bars go green so how on earth could I have gone from using updated versions to old ?.....Unless without me knowing Chrome hasen't been updating at all for quite some time?, I really don't no!, Anyway thanks for solving the mystery ) –Davey2010Talk 18:13, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
By the looks of it my browser hasen't updated itself since April 2014 ..... Great!, Anyway thanks all for your help :) –Davey2010Talk 18:24, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Linking to IPV6 user accounts[edit]

[[User|2602:304:b1ae:8970:2186:8b44:f7ad:ef34]] results in this 2602:304:b1ae:8970:2186:8b44:f7ad:ef34. The text is the IP, but the link goes to User. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 05:43, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, that's how piped links work. Did you mean {{user|2602:304:b1ae:8970:2186:8b44:f7ad:ef34}}, which produces 2602:304:b1ae:8970:2186:8b44:f7ad:ef34 (talk · contribs)? Regards, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 05:48, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Or perhaps you meant [[User:2602:304:b1ae:8970:2186:8b44:f7ad:ef34]]User:2602:304:b1ae:8970:2186:8b44:f7ad:ef34 - colon, not pipe. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:10, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Doh, now I feel like an idiot. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 19:43, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Template:Main - appearance (or lack thereof) on mobile browsers[edit]

It seems that {{main}} is hidden on mobiles, due to site CSS. I suggested personal CSS to unhide it, but apparently that doesn't work. Please discuss at Template talk:Main#Appearance (or lack thereof) on mobile browsers. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:11, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

More generally, all hatnotes (specifically, all elements with the hatnote CSS class) are hidden unless the display width is large enough. This means important navigation information is missing for mobile users who don't think to (or can't) rotate the display to a landscape configuration. Hairy Dude (talk) 16:26, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

username change, and now I can't log in!!![edit]

I asked for a username change from EmeraldRS to Emerald-wiki. It says the change has been carried out but I can't log in with my old or new username. I get a message with the new username saying my account is being renamed or merged. Is there some step that got missed? Help! (talk) 17:35, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

The rename was an hour ago [18] and your account has nearly 1000 edits in total. Try again later. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:52, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

If subpages in mainspace are "disabled", why aren't they disabled?[edit]

Wikipedia:Subpages tells us that "in main namespace (article namespace) ... the subpage feature has been disabled in the English Wikipedia". So how could a page such as Barbara Borts/Temp get created? It's the second one of these I've come across in the last few days (editors apparently find it counter-intuitive to work on a draft in talkspace). Might it be an idea to actually disable mainspace subpages if people aren't supposed to make them? Or limit the capability to admins or something? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 17:54, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

"disabled" does not mean that pagenames with '/' are impossible. It just means they are treated like any other mainspace pagename, and the features associated with subpages do not apply. For example, Barbara Borts/Temp has no automatically added link to Barbara Borts at the top. Compare to Talk:Barbara Borts/Temp which does have a link to Talk:Barbara Borts. The talk page is a subpage but the mainspace page is not. This is admittedly confusing. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:59, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
I don't know how common mistaken "subpages" in mainspace are but it would be possible in MediaWiki:Titleblacklist to limit creation of '/' in mainspace to admins. There are many valid reasons for '/' in article titles, like OS/2 and 9/11 Commission, so it would inconvenience many non-admins. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:08, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I see (and knew) that names with a slash are possible; I too am unsure how often the mistake is made, I just happen to have seen it twice in a short space (both times experienced editors rewriting copyvio pages). It may be better to live with that level of background noise. But what is easily fixed is the documentation: if subpages are not disabled, we shouldn't really be saying that they are. If what we actually mean is "mainspace pages containing a slash character do not become subpages; instead, the whole name is treated as the pagename", then that might be a better way of explaining it. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:59, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Go forth and update that documentation. --Izno (talk) 22:11, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
But they are disabled. Subpages are a feature which can be enabled or disabled in each namespace with mw:Manual:$wgNamespacesWithSubpages. It's called enable and disable in the MediaWiki documentation and those are the common and perfectly fine names for features which can, well, be enabled or disabled. It's used about hundreds of MediaWiki and Wikipedia features. Wikipedia:Subpages is not a technical help page but an editing guideline in project space. It starts: Except in main namespace (article namespace), where the subpage feature has been disabled in the English Wikipedia, subpages are pages separated with a "/" (a slash) from their 'parent' page.
Click "subpage feature" to learn more about the feature. That's how we work. A page may have some info about something and link to a page with more info. Wikipedia:Subpages#Slashes in article titles also explains that articles can have slashes in the title. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:41, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Infobox subheader shift?[edit]

In Jacques Brel, my eye gets the impression that the infobox header (the colored bar with text 'Jacques Brel') is asymmetrical: lefthand whitespace looks like 3px, righthand ws 2px. I'm using Firefox 35 (not 36 yet) now. Possibly related: #Tables_just_changed_.28using_monobook.29. Is it just my eye, or is this real? -DePiep (talk) 20:49, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Not sure, was the dress white/gold for you today or black/blue ? —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 21:33, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

In Jacques Brel, my eye gets the impression that the infobox header (the colored bar with text 'Jacques Brel') is asymmetrical: lefthand whitespace looks like 3px, righthand ws 2px. I'm using Firefox 35 (not 36 yet) now. Possibly related: #Tables_just_changed_.28using_monobook.29. Is it just my eye, or is this real? -DePiep (talk) 22:13, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

I can't login to Wikimedia[edit]

I tried nominating a Wikimedia user page for deletion due to WP:G11, however, I'm failing to login because everytime I refresh it never logs me in, instead it shows me the Central login message. How can I fix this? --ToonLucas22 (talk) 22:02, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

The Wikimedia Foundation runs a lot of wikis and some of them don't allow account creation or login without permission. Please post a link to the page you want deleted and the page where you try to log in. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:14, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
This page I want deleted. --ToonLucas22 (talk) 23:19, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
That's... weird. Special:CentralAuth/ToonLucas22 looks ok. Have you tried going directly to meta to log in (m:Special:UserLogin)?
(I've marked that page for deletion myself, and created it blank here. I'm sure we'll be seeing lots, lots more block and deleted-userpage evasion of this sort in the future.) —Cryptic 23:37, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
You didn't post the requested link to the page where you try to log in. The wiki of the user page is called meta or Meta-Wiki and not Wikimedia so I wonder whether it's another wiki you try to log in at. Please post the url of the login page. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:51, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
I try to log in to m:Special:UserLogin. --ToonLucas22 (talk) 00:11, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
OK, that's meta where your account was created in December and should work. Does Help:Logging in help? Note that browsers can have site-dependent settings. Can you log in at commons: which is also on PrimeHunter (talk) 00:26, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Nope, I can't log in there either. I refresh, still gives me Central Login message. --ToonLucas22 (talk) 00:36, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Try others at Wikipedia:Wikimedia sister projects#Sister projects and see if it's limited to Try another browser if you can. Look for site-dependent cookie and security settings in your browser. Or just drop the whole thing if you only need to edit Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:43, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Print/Export as pdf does not render tables[edit]

I've seen some chatter in the archives about the failure to render infoboxes, but it seems to me that the problem is much more widespread than that. I have looked around and every WP article with tables that I have checked have had the tables excluded in the .pdf print/export version. That is to say, after looking around, I have yet to find ANY tables that are rendered in the .pdf generated by print/export. Yes, there are many articles without tables, nevertheless, many articles include critical information in the articles and the lack of tabular information renders (pun intended) the .pdf nearly worthless. This is a widespread problem that IMHO should be prioritized relatively high. Examples are easy to find:

Go to your own favorite corner of WP and if you find tables, you will find this bug. YBG (talk) 05:08, 28 February 2015 (UTC)