Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board

Australian Wikipedians' notice board

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WikiProject Australia · Australian Wikipedians' Notice Board · Australian Wikipedians · Wikipedians in Australia · Australian Collaboration of the Fortnight · New Australian articles WikiProject Australian places · New South Wales (Riverina) · Northern Territory · Queensland · South Australia · Tasmania · Victoria · Western Australia · Australian Antarctic Territory Australian WikiProject Cities · Adelaide · Canberra · Melbourne · Perth · Sydney Other Australia-related WikiProjects · Biota · Cinema · Crime · Demographics · Education · History (Exploration · Maritime · Military) · Indigenous peoples · Law · Literature · Music (Crowded House · Kylie Minogue · Powderfinger) · Politics · Sports (Association football · Australian rules football · Baseball · Basketball · Motorsport · Rugby league) · Television · Roads	22 Feb : Kevin Rudd resigns as Minister for Foreign Affairs. 21 Feb : The largest pink diamond found in Australia, the Argyle Pink Jubilee begins its cutting in Perth. 25 Jan : Geoffrey Rush is named Australian of the Year, Marita Cheng is Young Australian of the Year and Laurie Baymarrwangga is Senior Australian of the Year. 13 Dec : Initial findings from a review of the Collins class submarines finds significant problems with the submarines and their management. 28 Nov : The Murray-Darling Basin Authority releases the draft version of the Murray-Darling Basin Plan. 25 Nov : Plans for the world’s biggest marine protection zone covering 989,842 square kilometres (382,180 sq mi) of the Coral Sea Islands Territory are announced.
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Australia · Arts · Architecture · Cities · Communications · Culture · Economy · Education · Environment · Geography · Government · Healthcare · History · Law · Language · Lists · Media · Military · Music · Organisations · People · Politics · Religion · Science · Society · Sport · Subdivisions · Transport · Tourism Australian states and territories · Australian Capital Territory · New South Wales · Northern Territory · Queensland · South Australia · Tasmania · Victoria · Western Australia Capital cities · Adelaide · Brisbane · Canberra · Darwin · Hobart · Melbourne · Perth · Sydney Australia stubs · AFL stubs · Broadcasting stubs · Geography stubs · Government stubs · Law stubs · People stubs · Paralympic medalists stubs · Television stubs	25 February: 1825 – Aboriginal bushranger Musquito is hanged at Hobart, Tasmania. 1961 – Last electric tram service runs in Sydney. 2001 – Cricketer Don Bradman dies in Adelaide aged 92. 2004 – Qantas lanuches its low cost domestic airline Jetstar. 2005 – Parts of the Sydney suburb of Macquarie Fields erupt into rioting following the death of a 19-year-old in a police car chase. More Australian anniversaries
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Here are some tasks you can do to help with WikiProject Australia: Requests · Aileen Griffiths · Australian Institute of Petroleum · Daniel Patrick O'Connell · Drought Force · Ecology of Australia · Feminism in Australia · Hunting in Australia · HMS Acheron (1879) · HMS Avernus · Landforms of Australia · Snakes of Australia Articles needing attention · 2010 Australian federal budget · Australian immigration detention facilities · Christian Research Association · Human trafficking in Australia · Privacy in Australian law · Racism in Australia · Reg Ansett · Solar power in Australia · Tourism in Australia Images requested · Benjamin Benjamin · Bill Slater · Cheryl Kernot · MV Pacific Adventurer · Poppy King · Rosemary Goldie · James Moore Verify needed · Architecture of Australia · Australasian Antarctic Expedition · Australian Maritime Safety Authority · Australian Payments Clearing Association · Australian Shield · Bushland · Glenelg Highway · List of Australian political controversies Quality watch: 35 FL-Class Australia lists 241 FA-Class Australia articles 365 GA-Class Australia articles 114 FP-Class Australian pictures	Featured article candidates Noisy Miner – Discussion Battle of Arawe – Discussion Roy Dowling – Discussion Good article candidates (see also WP:AUS/GA) The X Factor (Australia season 3) – Talk Aboriginal title – Talk Xerochrysum bracteatum – Talk Good article reassessment Seven Network — Discussion Pick Up the Pace — Discussion Requests for adminship none currently General announcements The Wikimedia Australia chapter has an IRC channel, #wikimedia-au, available for use. Planned meetups none currently Deletion discussions

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Wikimedians to the Games

This thread has been moved to a sub-page due to size. Please also see outreach:HOPAU/W2G for further information.

WikiProject Australian places

WikiProject Australian places is looking a bit too quiet these days. The last talk page activity was in November 2010. What's more, a lot of what should be discussed at that project is being discussed at this one (The entry for "Acheron, Victoria" above being a case in point!). What do others think of a takeover? ClaretAsh 23:00, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Most of the WP:AUST sub-projects (with some exceptions - see WP:WA) are basically lifeless. They live on basically as a tool for classifying articles into various groups rather than venues for collaborative work. Others may have more idea than I about how useful that classification is. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 00:59, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

If this is the case, it may be worth considering redirecting their talk pages to someplace that actually gets read (like here). Stuartyeates (talk) 01:21, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

As with all of wikipedia - editing is down all over - we might even have more sub projects than regular workers on the main project who even contribute on this page - I would suggest a message on all sub projects talk pages to come here - rather than redirects. Matt's summary of the projects as tools of classification is an important point (and should be sufficient explanation why the idea of take over is a misguided idea) - also many of the sub projects have massive assessment backlogs - we lack (Australian project) assessment/project management minded eds ... SatuSuro 13:29, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Not all sub-projects ignore assessments! 1148 bottles of beer on the wall, 1148 bottles of beer... The-Pope (talk) 13:48, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Well done! at least one sub project is sorted out then! who knows about the the rest... SatuSuro 13:56, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, who knows? What I would like to see is annual status updates from each of the sub-projects to be posted here. This could cover what achievements have been made, areas where there has been significant improvement, what areas of maintenance need attention, how a sub-project is failing or becoming inactive, which backlogs need priority attention, what new resources have been useful or any other developments which are significant or which may be of interest to other editors. If anyone else feels confident they have a good idea of the scope of work being carried out (or not) within sub-projects then I would encourage you to write a summary and post it here. I was thinking of doing this anyway for WP:QLD. Hopefully this proposal is more popular than my last one. - Shiftchange (talk) 14:34, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Maybe put it on a separate page like Wikipedia:WikiProject_Australia/Sub-projects where each sub-project can be listed as active/barely active/historical and list their current focus. A format similar to Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Directory/Geographical/Oceania might be useful as a starting point. Redirectly inactive talk pages to here is better than just a link, as some people may still post on an "open" page. The-Pope (talk) 15:46, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Places was always a container project anyway - it was as far as I was always aware a "parent project" for all of the geographic projects, and most significant discussion took place here on AWNB because most people had this watchlisted. Think of it like directories or folders on a hard drive, with most projects being 2nd level subdirectories/subfolders. It's worth pointing out AWNB is a noticeboard/discussion place, not a project, but I agree with the suggestion that (as we did with WP AUS's talk page some time ago) some of the talk pages should probably be redirected here. Another round of rationalisations is probably in order too - Perth, Brisbane and Townsville were merged into their parent projects in recent years and it was suggested at the time that others were reasonable candidates for such a move. Orderinchaos 16:12, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

BCOT

Hey guys, a second opinion is needed here. Cheers. Uhlan (talk) 22:11, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Australian Dictionary of Biography

Is there a consensus that people in the Australian Dictionary of Biography are notable per Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles? Is there any work underway to see these done? Should there be? Stuartyeates (talk) 02:41, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

I don't know about a consensus but the existence of an ADB article is prima facie evidence of the topic's ability to comfortably satisfy WP:GNG, surely? -- Mattinbgn (talk) 02:49, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you both. Yes, I would like to see a list started at Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles, and would potentially contribute to it. --99of9 (talk) 03:01, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

There is this list - Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/To-do/Australian Dictionary of Biography. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 03:05, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Whoops! Despite the name, this list relates to the Dictionary of Australian Biography. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 03:07, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

I've moved this to Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/To-do/Dictionary of Australian Biography to minimize confusion. --99of9 (talk) 01:55, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Yep being in either the Dictionary of Australian Biography or the Australian Dictionary of Biography and we have template if your citing either source {{Dictionary of Australian Biography}} {{Australian Dictionary of Biography}} Gnangarra 00:49, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

• Done. I've made a To-Do list for the ADB: Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/To-do/Australian Dictionary of Biography. Be warned, it's long! --99of9 (talk) 02:47, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Great work 99of9. Moondyne (talk) 15:18, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Could someone who has experience with templates please add options to Template:Dictionary of Australian Biography to allow it to take the entry author as well as the overall encyclopedia editor? Something like Template:DNZB does. Also having a gutenburg URL in the documentation must be confusing for new users. Stuartyeates (talk) 20:05, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Nevermind. I've found Template:Australian Dictionary of Biography which is the template I should be using includes these. Stuartyeates (talk) 20:07, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Stuart you realise that DAB is a different work to ADB thats why the templates are different.. Gnangarra 01:10, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes indeed. I have traced my confusion to the example at Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/To-do/Australian Dictionary of Biography, which was my starting point. I've fixed that. Stuartyeates (talk) 04:49, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

My script is done and capable of generating stubs such as Gertrude Mary Zichy-Woinarski. Feedback welcome. Stuartyeates (talk) 03:31, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

It looks good and appears to be accurate, however I don't think the red links in the see also section are encouraged. The retrieved date for references should probably by in the "day month year" format. You could add a link to Portal Australia or a state or territory if appropriate. The discussion pages will need the Australian and Biography banners which probably can't be scripted because of assessing importance. It could be useful for making biographical stubs, if that is your thing. Personally I don't want to create a new article until I have done the extra work to push it pass the stub threshold. - Shiftchange (talk) 04:31, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

(a) The red links are to other biographies in the ADB; they shouldn't be red by the time I've finished. They may point to disambiguation pages, however. (b) for the DNZB I added them all as low/stub and haven't had any complaints. (c) fixed date order. (d) I'll have a crack at portal links, they're not something I've ever done before. Stuartyeates (talk) 05:52, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

User:Jenks24 pointed out here that the authorlink option to the template is broken; I'll pause for a bit to see whether that gets sorted. Stuartyeates (talk) 06:41, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Any chance of determining the gender? --99of9 (talk) 08:26, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

No ways that I can think of; ADB doesn't appear to expose gender. We can't really blame them since WP don't expose it systematically either. Stuartyeates (talk) 08:44, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Word count " he " vs " she "? That would be right more often than not, and correcting a few percent is much easier than correcting every article's "it". --99of9 (talk) 09:05, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

I pondered that, but there are some people who are primarily known for their interaction with people of the opposite gender, making " he " and " she " unreliable. My current text is clumsy but correct; I'm loath to turn my back on correctness. Stuartyeates (talk) 19:00, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Can/should I copy across a couple of sources from the entries? There's no technical reason I can't, but I'm not sure about copyright considerations. Stuartyeates (talk) 08:44, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Personally I'd advise against it. I am already concerned you might cut close to database rights. But IANAL. --99of9 (talk) 09:05, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Another minor issue. --99of9 (talk) 09:11, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

And another. --99of9 (talk) 09:15, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

I've run across a few entries such as [1] which are actually entries for a pair of people. I'm going to assume that the primary individual counts as notable and the other doesn't. Stuartyeates (talk) 06:54, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to change my mind about this. There are about 10 of the 23 names in [Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/To-do/Australian Dictionary of Biography/Z Z] appear in double articles. All the required metadata is exposed. I may as well do both individuals in the double articles. Stuartyeates (talk) 07:19, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I think that is reasonable. Some of them may turn out to be non-notable, but since they're specificially included as a joint subject in a dictionary of biography, they've got a reasonable shot at passing. --99of9 (talk) 22:44, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

It's amazing how kind Google is to Wikipedia. Our Josephine stub already outranks the ADB entry! --99of9 (talk) 00:28, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

This often happens with new articles, but I notice that it's sorted itself out now. Stuartyeates (talk) 04:43, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

I've now done [Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/To-do/Australian Dictionary of Biography/Z Z] and [Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/To-do/Australian Dictionary of Biography/Y Y] and tweaked my script based on feedback. Stuartyeates (talk) 04:46, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

I think you should wait until the redlinks are checked. Otherwise you might be creating duplicate articles of articles that exist at a different name. Also, the article names won't meet our naming conventions. Should we fix them afterward or before creation? --99of9 (talk) 12:14, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Roads project sneaky past changes

Just happen to spot some changes to infoboxes that were made without any discussion with the QLD and Australian project all the way back in mid to late 2010, not sure how this was missed but it was. Template:Australian motorway and Template:QLDRoad were replaced with Template:Infobox roads rather then Template:Infobox Australian road. I've been making changes to the articles which were changed but I've only fixed a small number of articles ([2], [3], [4], [5], [6]) so far. Bidgee (talk) 11:32, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

I noticed this just after the last AfD and started listing them at User:AussieLegend/Project 05 but got sidetracked. --AussieLegend (talk) 11:43, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Help with rail template

Hi. Can someone give me a hand fixing the rail template on the article Yenda please?

Incidentally, does anyone else find the rail line templates impossibly editor-unfriendly? I consider myself a reasonably experienced editor but I don't have the first clue about where to go to fix the problem. Can't there be a simple "edit" link similar to the one on navboxes? -- Mattinbgn (talk) 21:45, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

With navboxes, the same content appears on multiple pages (usually every page featured in the navbox). Succession Boxs such as this template only appear on a single page. The templates are a way to lay out a table. I'm not quite sure why the railways folks appear to have hijacked templates meant for documenting the successive holders of offices. Stuartyeates (talk) 23:35, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

It should be OK now, but they can be very fiddly.Grahame (talk) 01:46, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Working now, thanks. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 03:20, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

February Melbourne Meetup

Hi All. Just letting you know that we have another meetup planned for Melbourne, on Sunday, 26th February at 11am. More details can be found at the meetup page. Pizza will be provided. Look forward to seeing all of you there :-) Steven Zhang ^{Join the DR army!} 22:31, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Canberra Times

Apparently, The Canberra Times redid their website and many links to newspaper articles are now 404s. :( --LauraHale (talk) 10:38, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Is the Canberra Times a reliable source? ;) Seriously, that sucks, though it's the reason why 'accessed on' dates are useful. Nick-D (talk) 07:23, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

I used it for sources for a DYK I wrote on I think the 12th of February. The Times changed their website on the 16th. The DYK was reviewed on the 18th so all my links were broken. :( Good to have the access dates, but not so handy if you're going through assessment of some kind. :( --LauraHale (talk) 08:19, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Ow, that sucks. Nick-D (talk) 08:51, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

I used the contact form and got the following response, which makes me happy: "Hi Thanks for bringing this to our attention - the Canberra Times tech team will have a look and see if they can come up with a solution. Regards, Phillip Fairfax Media digital support ". Hopefully, they will fix things because lot of outbounds to them. --LauraHale (talk) 22:17, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

cfd

These never get the project tag like afd's- this might interest some - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2012_February_21#Darwin.2C_Northern_Territory SatuSuro 22:37, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

This was proposed for speedy renaming a few days ago but was opposed.[7] --AussieLegend (talk) 23:02, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia training days in Hobart

Hi everyone, Wikimedia Australia is sponsoring two Wikipedia editing training days in Tasmania, run by Leigh Blackall - one in Hobart on Tuesday February 28th, and in Kingston on Wednesday February 29th.

WMAU has agreed to provide travel assistance (up to $100 per day) for regular Wikimedia contributors in Tasmania who want to assist with either of the workshops.

Volunteers should apply via email to contact@wikimedia.org.au, and only need to supply their username. Places are limited! -- Chuq (talk) 04:20, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Problem with image

I left a message at Wikipedia:Help desk as directed by WP:IFU but it was never answered and now archived. If it's possible, I think a screenshot of this post-match interview (9:10-9:40) from On the Mat (what would be a larger image of this) would be great although other images are available here, here, and here. 72.74.217.32 (talk) 04:40, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Australian Labor Party leadership election, 2012

My long held (but minority) view is that stand-alone articles on party leadership spills should not exist. However since they seem to be popular, they should at least be encyclopedic, neutral and non-crystal-ball-gazing. Australian Labor Party leadership election, 2012 fails on all counts. Can those with an interest in this sort of thing please fix it. -- Mattinbgn (talk) 05:15, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

is it really an election? To me that title implies that it is a public vote not an internal ballot. I tend to agree that most aren't notable but I think those that involve the sitting prime minister exceed the notability bar. The-Pope (talk) 05:25, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

I can't stand them either, frankly. One of the things I dislike is it's fairly presumptuous crystal-balling to assume that an "election" (I too dislike the use of this term) will even take place—for instance, there's a whole article called Australian Labor Party leadership election, 2010, even though Rudd stood down beforehand and no caucus vote/ballot/election actually took place. I guess they are for the most part notable and are not wanting for reliable sources, and they do have a significant effect on politics, such as changing the Prime Minister in some cases. --Canley (talk) 05:52, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

It's still technically an election in which one candidate wins unopposed (although I take The-Pope's point that a word other than "election" may make the actual process a little clearer, as the public don't vote in it). I agree with the need for such articles and actually plan to create articles for as many as I can get sources for historically - have already started on 1991 in my userspace. The advantage of them is that their content doesn't readily fit into any other space as a sub-section, and risks WP:WEIGHT issues (eg someone serves for 2 years but 3/4 of their article is about their dumping). I agree strongly that they need to avoid hyperbole and stick to what reliable sources say. Orderinchaos 06:34, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Why aren't they titled leadership spill? Moondyne (talk) 06:56, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

I suspect that leadership spill isn't widely understood. Australian Labor Party leadership change, 2012 seems more encyclopedic to me. Stuartyeates (talk) 07:15, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Either sounds better / less confusing / possibly more accurate than "election". Orderinchaos 07:23, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Or caucus ballot? "Election" is fucking ridiculous. Fifelfoo (talk) 07:29, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

I think that 'leadership ballot' or 'leadership challenge' are the terms used by political scientists. 'Election' is clearly non-sensical. Nick-D (talk) 07:34, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Challenge is only a subset of the article type, as some are simply brought on by the resignation of whoever is in power and the contest of others to replace them. Orderinchaos 07:36, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

So far there is no challenge. (Despite the media suggesting for months that there has been one.) If there are no other candidates, there will be no vote or election. Can we escape from the hype please? HiLo48 (talk) 07:55, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Of the options thus far expressed I'm favouring "spill", because it's the most accurate. Orderinchaos 08:00, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I would support that.HiLo48 (talk) 08:02, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Of course there will be an election. An election is simply the filling of a vacant position. It does not require multiple candidates. Does the term "elected unopposed" sound familiar? WWGB (talk) 08:05, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Domain .au past year

• "leadership spill" 40,400 results
• "leadership challenge" 37,700 results.
• "leadership ballot" 31,700 results
• "leadership election" 80 results

Whichever way you go "election" isn't it. Support Spill. Moondyne (talk) 08:06, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Any objections to "spill"? If not, I'll sort it out tonight (renames, links, category). Orderinchaos 08:55, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Spill sounds best to me. --99of9 (talk) 11:41, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

The term "leadership spill" isn't understood outside of Australia. "election" or "vote" or "ballot" is more universally understood. Vale of Glamorgan (talk) 17:38, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm a kiwi and I'd never heard the term 'spill' in this sense prior to this discussion. Stuartyeates (talk) 18:56, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

If there is actually a ballot on Monday, I'd be fine with changing it to "leadership ballot" at that stage. But until that happens, I think we should call it a spill, and explain what a spill is, including the fact that there's not necessarily any more than one candidate. --99of9 (talk) 02:50, 24 February 2012 (UTC)