Wikipedia:Bot owners' noticeboard

This is a message board for coordinating and discussing bot-related issues on Wikipedia (also including other programs interacting with the mediawiki software). Although its target audience is bot owners, any user is welcome to leave a message or join the discussion here. This is not the place for requests for bot approvals or requesting that tasks be done by a bot. It is also not the place for general questions about the mediawiki software (such as the use of templates, etc.), which have generally a best chance of being answered at WP:VPT.

Can We Get a Ruling

...over here? The bot's been doing the same tasks since day 1, no amendments to the code ... today, it's suddenly blocked. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 01:27, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

The request at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/7SeriesBOT says that only deletions that comply with WP:CSD#G7 will be done. Because G7 specifically and explicitly excludes user talk pages, that means that the bot approval must also exclude such pages. It would probably be better to get consensus at WT:CSD that this bot has an exception to the normal G7 rules. — Carl (CBM · talk) 01:35, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

WP:CSD#G7 and WP:CSD#U1 both explicitly state that user talk pages are not to be deleted under those criteria. User pages deleted under WP:DELTALK should certainly not be done by a bot, as they are only done in exceptional circumstances, and bots are no good at detecting something as general and vague as "exceptional circumstances". Seems pretty black and white to me. Just because the bot has been doing it for awhile with no complaints doesn't necessarily mean that it's ok, it just means that no one has noticed until now. —SW— ^communicate 02:29, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

It seems there is a current discussion about this very topic here. —SW— ^express 02:32, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

I've re-read both BRfAs and the associated deletion criteria. As Scottywong mentions, there is an "except under very exceptional circumstances" get-out clause, and I'd suggest that only one editor (per Task 1) is an exceptional circumstance. I may be a lack of imagination or experience on my part, but I can't see when a Task 1 deletion would be bad. Josh Parris 03:39, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

...and look at the incidents where the usertalk page has been deleted ... in one case someone warned them, removed the warning, then tagged for G7 ... looks like an obvious case (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 17:04, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Personally, when I find those, I remove the {{db-g7}} and replace with a welcome template. Reaper Eternal (talk) 17:11, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Wouldn't the obvious compromise be to only delete user talk pages if the single contributor was the user? I can't imagine there would be any concerns about deletion then. And really, it's not like there's a huge G7 backlog to begin with. CSD G7 seems fairly clear, and consensus on any exception would have to be made at Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion, not here. — madman 17:12, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

That could therefore possibly be a U1 ... (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 17:27, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

If someone mistakenly creates a user talk page (e.g. wrong click on Huggle or whatever) and then decides to G7 it, will the user whose talk page briefly existed get a "You have new messages" bar with a red link to their talk page when they log in? That could be a bit confusing for them. 28bytes (talk) 17:24, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't think they will after the page has been deleted. — madman 17:26, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

If that's the case, then I don't see a problem with what the bot's doing. The alternative would be for whoever's requested the G7 to have to wait until it's manually deleted by an admin, and risk giving the innocent user a spurious orange bar pointing them to a scary-looking {{db}} box on their talk page. I think the key concern should be to avoid confusing or annoying a new user. 28bytes (talk) 17:32, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

I understand your concern. But I think that's a fringe case in practice (if users are warning the wrong people that often, they really need to slow down and look at what they're doing; it's not a race). And I agree with the blocking administrator that as it stands, the bot is incorrectly deleting pages per U1 and G7. U1 is absolutely unambiguous, but I do agree that there's a case to be made that G7 should apply to user talk pages with a single contributor. That case should be made at Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion. — madman 17:38, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

@Josh Parris: how easy is it to remove the offending code. We want to make sure that it's still deleting compliant User talk:WhoeverWhatever/mysubpage but not User talk:WhoeverWhatever ... is this something I can tweak? (I'm pretty sure the code has not changed since the last one you uploaded). I can run it that way until we clarify things elsewhere (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 16:40, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Give me a few days to find my feet again. Josh Parris 22:01, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

No problem! Thanks Josh ... good to have you back and around (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 14:02, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

• Just a friendly bump ... just in case possibly someone other than Josh can take a peek at the code and suggest changes. It's sad to have ol' 7Series down for so long after running without complaint for so long (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 16:11, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

As a temporary fix, I have removed cmnamespace 3 from the code, and have requested unblock of the bot. This will cut out a substantial part of what it's checking, but I'd rather having it limping than nothing (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 18:38, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Kumi-Taskbot and collapse parameters

I'm bringing this issue here because repeated requests to Kumioko (talk · contribs) to stop removing collapse parameters. This still continues and I don't see anywhere in Kumi-Taskbot approvals that collapse parameters should specifically be removed. It happened most recently today after I had asked Kumioko for the second time to knock it off. The original notice pointed out why the collapse parameter, when it has been set to either yes or no, means there is some reason for it's existence. For that matter, why would an unused collapse parameter bother someone so much that they have to systematically remove them? When an article has many project tags, collapsing the banner shell saves a lot of visual space. Looking at this same edit the only corrections made were to white space which I fail to see any approval for. This most recent behavior is only carried over from months of my commenting to Kumioko about what his AWB obsession has been doing to article talk pages and IIRC at one time Kumioko lost his AWB privileges for the very same reason of making mass inconsequential edits to article talk pages. Brad (talk) 02:36, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Well fme, here are more issues:

• Kumi-Taskbot
• Your_bot_and_USRD_articles
• Bot_edits_for_collapsed.3Dyes

Kumi-Taskbot is only approved for work with wiki project templates. Brad (talk) 02:50, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I stopped removing the collapsed parameter after the second notice although I still contend that it should be removed. The collapsed parameter completely hides all of the WikiProject templates effectively making them invisible unless the user knows to go looking for them. Second, since I do not have access nor do I use IIRC, IMO, if the comments happened in IIRC about me or my bot, frankly they don't exist to me. I had no opportunity for comment nor discussion there. Thirdly, as with any bot there were a few glitches mostly do to the absolute and complete lack of standardization of the WikiProject templates that I had to work through. Which I would like to say are fixed but I continue to make adjustments for as I find them. --Kumioko (talk) 12:16, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

"IIRC" = "if I recall correctly". :) —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 12:25, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah I am not sure the collapsed=yes should be used. However I don't think it should be changed by a bot. The boxes are still collapsed without that parameter set...they just aren't completely collapsed so that the names of the wikiproject tags can still be seen. Collapsing them completely defeats the purpose of the tags. -DJSasso (talk) 14:06, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks H3llkn0wz for clarifying. I was thinking about IRC. To Djsasso, I already removed the code anyway. I am going to bring up the use of the collapsed parameter on the WikiProject bannershell for discussion and see where it goes. --Kumioko (talk) 14:33, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

And you still ignore the fact that you're doing work with your bot that has not been authorized. You removed the parameter from the FAQ template after I asked you to stop removing collapse parameters. There is a particular reason for setting |collapse=no on the FAQ template so that the questions stand out and can be seen. You only have authorization to work with project templates; not make white space changes or changes that you feel should be done. My politeness is wearing thin. Can you not just leave the f-articles alone? Brad (talk) 00:23, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Well to answer the question at the end, yes I could, but that sorta defeats the purpose of having an online encyclopedia that anyone can edit don't you think? Your dwelling on a dead issue at this point. I already told you I stopped doing that edit. But just for clarification some of the edits that you seem to have trouble with are general edits generated by AWB. Not the collapsed parameter mind you but the white space edits that seem to be so troubling to you and the only reason they went is because I didn't check the little box in AWB that says skip if white space/minor edit. --Kumioko (talk) 00:35, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

It should be the encyclopedia that anyone except Kumioko using AWB can edit. Since you're a responsible bot owner I'm sure that by now you are planning to go around and replace the parameters you removed. I saw another one of your edits over at George Washington that clipped a working collapse parameter. I'll have to start putting that deny tag on more articles as I'm sure this won't be the last of your escapades. Brad (talk) 18:08, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Well its ok that you think that, doesn't really matter to me that you personally don't like my edits, but its ok. I learned along time ago that you can't, and shouldn't try, to please everyone on here. Since I don't know precisely every edit that parameter was removed from, and in most cases it shouldn't have been there anyway, theres no way I can go back and fix them. My guess is that most of the ones you have a problem with relate to US Presidents so I might go back and check those over. If you see one I missed please let me know. --Kumioko (talk) 19:07, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

What's is the benefit of having collapsed=no in every page? Collapsed is set to "no anyway. -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:58, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

If you compare before and after you can see that the default is to hide the questions in the FAQ, and "collapsed=no" makes the questions visible. I'm not sure why the bot was making this change if it was not authorized. — Carl (CBM · talk) 19:26, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

It turns that setting no for collapsed in this banner it changes the visual effect. Thanks for letting me know. -- Magioladitis (talk) 19:43, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Kumioko is doing it again except this time not under his registered spam bot. In the diff please notice that {{bots|deny=Kumi-Taskbot}} is in place to prevent his bot vandalism. Since he has no authorization to vandalize remove collapse parameters with his bot, he's just doing it without the bot. This is the second or third time this has happened after Kumioko said he would stop. This isn't the fault of AWB, this is a planned removal by the AWB operator. Brad (talk) 19:38, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

I am confused last time you complained that he was uncollapsing boxes. This time he collapsed a box. Secondly as an editor he is allowed to make those kinds of changes under his own account. And you are able to WP:BRD them as well. There is no policy that I am aware of stating that once someone sets one of those that no one can change them. -DJSasso (talk) 19:44, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually reading further I do see that the FAQ was mentioned. I was thinking about the banner shell part. But that doesn't change the fact that any editor can do that on their main account. However since he was asked to stop he should stop and discuss. -DJSasso (talk) 19:45, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

If this were an isolated incident I would not be here complaining. Kumioko is using AWB and a bot to make sweeping changes to articles (removing collapsed parameters) without consensus to do so. This is abuse of both AWB and bot privileges; he does not have authorization or any approval to edit in this manner. Brad (talk) 20:10, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

You gotta be kidding me with this Brad, I made the change, I saw I did it and fixed it, then you reverted my edits fixing the problem to a version you did completely wiping out all of the good changes I did. Then you start forum shopping leaving comments here and on the AWB page calling me out of control. You need to get a grip, grow some thicker skin, stop showing such ownership over the article and stop being a jerk. --Kumioko (talk) 20:14, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually now that I look at the page history that is true...you did fix it and he blindly reverted. That is not cool. -DJSasso (talk) 20:53, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Blackout January 18th 05:00 UTC

As many of you know, English Wikipedia will be blacked out during January 18th 05:00 UTC - January 19th 05:00 UTC to protest SOPA and PIPA. As a result, editing via the API will be disabled (see here). This thread is not meant to air opinions on the blackout, but rather to gather information on how bots may be affected. Shubinator (talk) 06:19, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Also, there's a related thread over at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#SOPA blackout. Shubinator (talk) 06:25, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Bots that edit on a scheduled basis throughout the day (possibly read-only bots too, but it depends on implementation) will need to be able to handle related errors so that they don't crash and are thus available when the site reopens. --Rschen7754 06:25, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

The Toolserver Mirror will stay up, right? Tim1357 ^talk 22:19, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Wolterbot cleanup

Since Wolterbot is dead with no indications it will return and we now have a toolserver tool to do the task can I use my bot to cleanup all the {{User:WolterBot/Cleanup listing subscription|banner=''Insert your favorite WikiProject here''}} cruft still left lying about the WikiProjects> --Kumioko (talk) 03:01, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Since knowone seems to have any problems with this I will go ahead and submit a BRFA to get these cleaned up. --Kumioko (talk) 17:50, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Call for Participation: Looking to Interview Bot Community Members

Greetings-

I am a graduate student at the University of Oregon, currently collecting data for my dissertation on Wikipedia editors who create and use bots and assisted editing tools, as well as editors involved in the initial and/or ongoing creation of bot policies on Wikipedia. I am looking for members of the bot community to interview regarding their experiences on Wikipedia and opinions of technical and governance issues on the site. The interview can be conducted in a manner convenient for you (via an IM client, email, Skype, telephone, or even in-person) and should take approximately 30-45 minutes.

Your participation will help online communication researchers like me to better understand the collaborations, challenges, and purposeful work of Wikipedia editors and programmers like you.

My dissertation project has been approved both by the Institutional Review Board (IRB) at the University of Oregon, and by the Research Committee at the Wikimedia Foundation. You can find more information on the project on my meta page.

If you would like to participate or have any questions, please contact me directly via email or by leaving a message on my talk page. Thank you in advance for your interest.

Randall Livingstone

UOJComm (talk) 00:05, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I would urge those who can take part in this but haven't yet to do so if possible, it is an interesting project but the response rate, from what I understand, has been rather low. It really would help Randall if more people would reply, and he's made himself available on several ims, email, etc, shouldn't be too hard to answer a few email questions at the very least, if possible :) Snowolf ^{How can I help?} 00:10, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

ClueBot III is going nuts

And I hope I finally found the right place to tell someone about this. It's been nuking the talk page over at Talk:Johnny Otis and archiving discussions that are just days old and should still be up. It started doing this about a week and a half ago when some of the discussions were less than a day old. From its contribs list I think it's been doing it on other talk pages too. I don't know if there's an error with something on the page, or if it's got a bug, but someone needs to find out what is going on. If it does it to the pages I'm watching before I hear back from someone I'm going to take it to the vandalism noticeboard. I know that's not proper procedure, but it's disrupting the site, or at least portions of it. Evanh2008, Super Genius Who am I? You can talk to me... 08:12, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

In the absence of an {{{age}}} parameter, the bot was archiving as many sections as it was allowed to, as soon as it was allowed to. This would have been happening since October 2011. Happy‑melon 08:48, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing that up! That was immensely frustrating, especially seeing as how the only code I speak is BBCode. Evanh2008, Super Genius Who am I? You can talk to me... 08:50, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Bot Approvals Group

This isn't really a big deal but I just had a perception of the Wikipedia:Bot Approvals Group page that I wanted to bring up. There are several members under the inactive section that should, IMO, be moved up to at least the Semi-active list. Several make at least occassional Bag related edits and others are still active in Wikipedia even if not in bag itself. Regardless of the criteria it appears the list might need to be updated a bit. --Kumioko (talk) 15:03, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree that those who edit BRFAs (with their BAG hat on) should be moved up the list. However, editors who are active elsehwere should not; it is not the purpose of the list. - Jarry1250 ^{[Deliberation needed]} 18:59, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Jarry. Inactive should be defined as inactive within the Bot Approval process. Snowolf ^{How can I help?} 19:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough, Kinda what I thought too actually. I just noticed that there are 3 or 4 that make an occassional appearance (such as yourself Snowolf) that might be worth putting in the Semi list. Not a big deal really I just thought I bring it up and ask. --Kumioko (talk) 19:24, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

How many BRFA's can I hve pending at one time

I just wanted to ask how many BRFA's I can or should have open at one time. I had previously thought that bundling like items into one BRFA would be better but after seeing how one of mine has been dragging on I think that was an incorrect assumption. I also tried to do a general one along the lines of Tagging and assessing aarticles but I was told I needed to be specific. So, since it appears that submitting individual tasks is more likely to get approval in a timely manner, and given that I have a list of about 40(and growing) that I am sitting on. I thought I would ask before deluging the BRFA process. Just for clarification, several of these are group items. For example: I have about 30 groupings of articles that need to be tagged with WikiProject banners for various projects (1 for most US Supported States, a couple cities and several others), 5 tasks relating to Main page edits, 3 that relate to cleaning up some items in the File namespace and a few more miscelaneous ones relating to Infoboxes, persondata, categories and portals. --Kumioko (talk) 18:38, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Since knowone has responded then I will assume there is no limit so I am going to start submitting them per previous discussion in my previous BRFA's that its better to submit multiple requests than to grant a blanket BRFA to do things like WikiProject tagging. --Kumioko (talk) 23:38, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Im a bit disappointed

I must confess that I am finding myself a bit disappointed in the bot process. I am sure some will think I am just a jerk and out of place but I believe I am only going to state a perception that many have of the process here. It should not take a week to get a response nor should it take a month or more to get approval or denial for a request. If the process is that much trouble then maybe we need to just submit bot requests through the Village pump and go by community consensus. I have more than 40 (and growing) tasks I want to submit but it has taken more than a month for the 2 tasks I have open and there are at least 10 BRFA's currently open. I am trying not to swamp the process and only do a couple at a time but if it takes months to get approval I may as well submit them, swamp the process and wait. If the BAG wants to continue to force users to go through this process then they need to be more responsive or we need to find a better way to handle it. We shouldn't be forcing users to wait weeks and months to get approval for, in some cases, a few hundred entries. I am even more troubled in that several members of the BAG do dozens to hundreds of edits per day but they never find the time to contribute to any of the BRFA's or if they do its a casual comment. Not even counting mine there are a couple of tasks that are simple and should have probably been speedy approved once a minimal trial run was done.--Kumioko (talk) 02:29, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I actually had intended on trying to help fix this trend in BAG, but real life takes over, and it is hard to get to things in a timely manner. In my experience BAG is one of the most unrewarding jobs on wiki, and one of the hardest approval processes to get right. Some Brfa's can be very hard to judge, particularly because they tend to suffer from wall of text syndrome, and complex tasks generally require a significant amount of reading (not just the Brfa it's self, but also the policy pages, and other discussion pages). And that is not even getting into the technical side of things. Even then, there is no guarantee you will get it right. BAGers tend to err on the side of caution and avoid the long and difficult Brfas, and just deal with just the easy ones. Moving to a village pump system would just create even bigger problems. If you want to help, I'd suggest you join BAG and dive in.

I would also like to note, that BAG has improved significantly at keeping the Brfa process running smoothly. Currently we only have 11 Brfas open. At points last year we had 30 Brfas open. This is an awesome change, and I'd like to thank all the BAGers (and non BAGers) who have been actively involved, because even small edits or comments make a huge difference to the approval process.

Go ahead and submit all your tasks at once, it will be faster that way. --Chris 10:07, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, at one point we had 49 active Brfas. I think we've improved quite a bit since then. --Chris 10:13, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Everyone's a freakin' volunteer, and has real lives. There's not a time limit on this project. Chillax, and don't insult people like this. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:11, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

I agree its unrewarding and hard but it shouldn't be a one person job either. Frankly I don't really think I'm qualified to be on the bag group. I'm not that great of a programmer and some of the tasks amaze me at how they work. I'm also not an admin. I also don't intend this to insult anyone editor but the process itself. I realize everyone is a volunteer, but so are those of us that submit these tasks and are trying to get stuff done. To spend to time in submitting them and writing the code and even in identifying the task to have to wait 2 months to get approval to fix the problem is disrespectful of our time. BTW I truly hate the term there's no time limit. It gives me the perception that people don't care and that I'm just wasting my time. Your right there's not a limit but when I have about 40 or so tasks that I want and need to get done to support WikiProject US so that the project runs smoothly and the articles get maintained and cleaned up (particularly the less edited ones) then it affects not just me but the projects I am trying to help support and the articles they support. --Kumioko (talk) 12:19, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

From what I have seen most of your tasks so far could be done by you on your own account with AWB. If you are that desperate to get to them fast why don't you just do that? Frankly I would be upset if BRFAs only took a week or less. Most complex bot tasks should take a month or more so everything can be sorted out so there is less risk once it goes live. -DJSasso (talk) 13:17, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

In addition to the insightful comments already made, I would add that operators seeking a faster resolution of their BRFAs should (in general) make as much of an effort as possible to demonstrate consensus for their tasks. BRFAs suffer most from a lack of outside input; when it does come at the moment, it tends to come in the form of a vitriolic argument between two opposing sides that haunts the BRFA for weeks. By comparison, generally speaking, coming to BRFA with a demonstrated consensus makes the whole exercise far easier and quicker. BAG members are generally very reluctant to approve even seemingly simple tasks if that consensus has not been demonstrated, and that is what holds most BRFAs up IMHO. - Jarry1250 ^{[Deliberation needed]} 14:50, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. Kumioko, regarding the current request you have that's open, it's being held up a bit in my opinion due to the task's failure rate, the lack of clear evidence of consensus, and the fact that some of your tasks have caused problems in the past. We have to determine that an automated task is going to be harmless and that takes time, ironing out bugs, and sometimes multiple trials to demonstrate.

I absolutely would not support any sort of time limit on BRFAs because the longer they stay open, the better we can gauge consensus. In addition, sometimes we need to discuss our concerns about a task and sanity check each other, and that takes time as most of us are in different time zones and thus are not active at the same times. In point of fact, that's why I stepped back from handling your request myself, because I would be inclined to deny it, but I'm willing to discuss it with the rest of the BAG and/or let another member handle it.

Finally, the fact that we have 10 BRFAs open means little when most are in trial or extended trial. Our response time once an operator indicates a trial is complete is generally very good (even given that it takes time to check the results of the trial). — madman 19:58, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Reply to Djasso - In general you are right, I could do them from my account using AWB and I have in some cases, however, it is my understanding and experience that to do several thousand edits should be done as a BRFA and frankly I have a lot going on myself and don't have the time to hit enter 10, 000+ times in a shot.

Reply to Jarry - I believe that with the exception of one all the tasks I submitted have been approved by other operators so the consensus is already established. I have quite a few in the hopper that aren't and intentionally waited to submit them until I got consensus and until I established the bot and the tasks I thought were were easy to get approved.

Reply to Madman - First I partially agree and I believe that I also tried to do too much with one BRFA. I did that in the thought that if I grouped several like items I could get several done at once. I won't do that in the future and will submit each task individually so that many aren't held up by one. I admit I had a few hickups with the coding but most of them are minor, were easily fixable and most are due to the inherent complication of the structure of the WikiProject templates. Which by the way all the other bots with approval to add or modify WikiProject templates also have. I have yet to see one that doesn't have some problems such as wiping out additional parameters, removing the wrong project, adding the wrong project, breaking parameters, etc.

Just to clarify to all, knowone expects an immediate response but when 5 or 10 days go by without anyone stopping to check on things and make a comment its gets very frustrating. --Kumioko (talk) 23:34, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

As I said, I wasn't responding with regard to your BRFAs specifically, just BRFAs in general. Thanks. - Jarry1250 ^{[Deliberation needed]} 00:16, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

I do recognize that parsing templates is one of the most complex tasks a bot can do due to their "loose" syntax (it's like HTML in that respect; it cannot be parsed perfectly using regular expressions). I didn't mean any of what I said as criticism. :) When I wanted to make sure that my bot, when faced with that task, would perform it harmlessly, it took me about a week to rip out MediaWiki's parsing code and adapt it to my bot so it'd parse it the same way MediaWiki would and couldn't break anything. I definitely don't expect that of most bot operators. :P More complex tasks are going to take a little more time to test and approve though. Once it's clear you've gotten the bugs ironed out of the process, related requests are going to be approved much more quickly.

Also, you can combine multiple tasks into one request; I don't think anyone meant to imply you couldn't. You just can't have really open-ended requests like "Modifies WikiProject banners" because there's no way for us to gauge consensus of what tasks that will include in the future. — madman 02:27, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

• As a comment to BWilkins about "volunteers". Yes BAG members are volunteers and so are bot operators. Therefore we should not demand the impossible from BAG members but we should also not make bot operators wait too long. On Commons there is a rather "free" bot policy. If you are an experienced and trusted bot operator you can do almost everything as long as the task is not expected to break anything or make someone upset. On enwiki you have to ask permission to almost everything before you start your bot. Perhaps the bot policy on enwiki could be a little less strict?

As an example: I nominated 1.100+ files for deletion and I wanted to add a ffd on the file page and leave a note to the uploaders. I was told that I could not do that without asking for a permission. Later a few hundred of the files was withdrawn and I could strike the files from the DR but I could not use my bot to remove the ffd template from the files without asking for a permission. And if I got a permission to do the tasks then what about next time I nominate a lot of files for deletion? Would I need a new permission or could I use the old one? But it was just examples and the problems were fixed so lets just keep it to a general discussion.

My point is that if it is fast and easy to get a permission to do a task there is a much better chance that someone volunteer do do the tasks requested here or anywhere else. --MGA73 (talk) 14:26, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

To followup on that, Many of the tasks I am asking for currently and will be asking for in the future are relatively straightforward wikiproject tagging but I have been told I need to resubmit for each new one. Even if its speedily approved it adds additional delays each time. So assuming I submit 2 per week and they are speedily approved it will take me at least 6 months to get them all approved. --Kumioko (talk) 15:17, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

If you want to promote a relaxation of bot policy then do so, but be aware that the tight policy we operate here on en.wp was borne incrementally from literally dozens of massive flare-ups where fairly obvious (it seemed at the time) tasks turned out to be highly controversial. (Also, there's a degree to which best practice is helpfully shared by BRFAs that would be lost.) - Jarry1250 ^{[Deliberation needed]} 15:21, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

I know there is a reason not to allow "everything" and I'm not suggsting to do major changes. I'm just suggesting that perhaps it would be a good idea to take small steps in direction of a more "loose" bot policy on some areas. --MGA73 (talk) 15:41, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not unsympathetic, but one has to realise that the current bot policy started off relatively lax, and has been tightened incrementally following massive arguments. Thus to "loosen" bot policy, one has to roll back the conclusions of those set-pieces. - Jarry1250 ^{[Deliberation needed]} 15:43, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

There's a slightly unwritten rule, that you can run tasks under your main account, as long as you don't get caught (i.e. small task, slow edit rate, something with an already established consensus, NO error rate). Likewise, you can to some extent test bots under your main account as long as you monitor them. The main factor in this though, is that if you screw up majorly, you'll be in a bit of hot water (especially, if it becomes a habit). --Chris 15:48, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure that's an unwritten rule, nor that we should say it is; it's covered by the bot policy. Any task that's not fully automated (e.g. assisted editing) can be performed under your main account. (You could create an alternate account but I recognize that that's a bit of a bother.) All of the conditions you list make such a task more acceptable and lessen the chance of conflict with other editors. — madman 02:27, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Speaking as someone who was here for The Bad Old Days™, BAG used to follow the model MGA proposes of fairly permissive and broad approvals of experienced operators. Then we had Betacommand, ST47, Geo-tagging bot, Date delinking bot, Plant bot, Bot deletions and a host of other situations which almost led to the disbanding of BAG. To Kumioko and MGA, if you would like to submit a general BRFA for "wikiproject talkpage tagging" or "template normalizing" or "re-categorization of wikiprojects," I would be very likely to grant a broad approval once you had done a small test. Also, even if the rules or convention say 2 BRFAs per person at a time, for the time being, I would not object to upwards of 5 BRFA per person at a time. MBisanz ^talk 15:49, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks to all for comments. I have gotten a much better understanding of the process, why it is what it is and a broad understnading of the BAG and BRFA process that I didn't have benfore. --Kumioko (talk) 16:20, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Yeah like Kumioko I would also like to say thank you :-) As I understand it it is possible to get a more general permission if I/someone want to do a few similar tasks. That will help. --MGA73 (talk) 20:41, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Bot bugs not being attended to and bot can't be shut off by victims.

It looks like this bot is performing quite a lot of unintentional vandalism (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Elvey#Malfunctioning_bot_annoying_uploaders.21 and such.) Shouldn't all bots have emergency shut-off switches?--Elvey (talk) 08:17, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

There's always the block button. →Στc. 08:52, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism is a pretty harsh call. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Macy%27s_stupid_coupon.jpg&oldid=427623492 is the version of the image you uploaded that the bot whined about; that version renders with a complaint that WARNING: Fine print does not appear to exist!, so perhaps there was a parsing issue. Josh Parris 09:14, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

I've tried to figure out what User_talk:ImageTaggingBot#Why_are_all_the_images_I_upload_being_wrongly_labeled_as_untagged.3F is about and have failed; there's no user with that name and any editing history on en or commons. Josh Parris 09:20, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

User:Astepintooblivion probably changed their name into User:Obsidian_Soul. -- Luk ^talk 09:58, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Ah. In that case, here's why "as such": http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AObsidian_Soul&action=historysubmit&diff=384077370&oldid=384050156 Josh Parris 10:48, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

I noticed recently that there are a lot of Image swith double and triple of some tags, probably partially because the bots adding it multiple times or adding it in addition to others adding it. If the bot is malfunctioning andn can't be stopped with multiple comments going unanwered then IMO the right thing to do is block it until things get sorted out. --Kumioko (talk) 13:53, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

ImageTaggingBot may add two tags to an image in a situation where an image has two problems (most often, "no source" and "no license"), and it's common for a user to later add a third tag for a violation of the non-free content policy. The bot should never add a tag to an image that another user has already tagged. If you know of some examples, please bring them to my attention so I can adjust the bot's settings. --Carnildo (talk) 03:24, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

The reason why ImageTaggingBot and ImageRemovalBot don't have user-accessible shutoff switches is that users in general are very poor at judging when those bots are malfunctioning. In the case that Elvey appears to be complaining about, File:Macy's stupid coupon.jpg, ImageTaggingBot claimed that the file did not have a license tag. Not surprisingly, the bot was correct: the image had an {{Information}} template and a {{Non-free use rationale}} template, but no license tag. --Carnildo (talk) 02:31, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't able to determine from the bot's user page or its BRfA what criteria it uses to determine a lack of licensing. It'd be helpful if that was there. Josh Parris 02:48, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

To the bot, "licensed" simply means "the image description page transcludes a license template". The bot has two degrees of "unlicensed" ("no license whatsoever" and "maybe a license, but no template") that it distinguishes between based on various heuristics, but the difference only influences what no-license tag the bot applies and what message it gives the uploader; in both cases, the image is in violation of policy. --Carnildo (talk) 03:19, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

All bots have emergency shut off switches. Honestly, it's the block function. A lot of bots have non-admin stop features, and that's nice and often appropriate, but it not and should not be required. Think if Cluebot NG had a non-admin stop function :D Snowolf ^{How can I help?} 02:40, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

X!'s bots

Anyone with a toolserver account willing to take over some of SoxBot's tasks? I have not contacted X!, but even if he renews his toolserver account it's probably good sense to move the tasks to active users. Code is I all open source at https://code.google.com/p/soxred93tools/source/checkout.

Not sure which tasks are still relevant. Some aren't: I've redirected the admin-highlighter tool to a clone. But others should probably be replaced:

1. Creating the current events pages, like Portal:Current events/2012 February 9
2. Maintaining RfX tally and RfX report
3. Keeping {{badimage}} on all file description pages listed at MediaWiki:Bad image list (BRFA)
4. Maintain {{Cratstats}} and {{adminstats}} (BRFA, BRFA)

Maybe there were other active tasks that I didn't notice. Neither seems particularly pressing though.

Amalthea 14:32, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I'll volunteer for at least the first task, and probably the other 3 too if no one else has a strong desire to claim those tasks for their bot. 28bytes (talk)

For what its worth I also notice that the edit counter isn't working anymore either because his Toolserver account expired. --Kumioko (talk) 16:47, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm working on taking over 2, 4, and the edit counter.--v/r - TP 19:03, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I could help out with the edit counter and SoxBot. I have a toolserver account. (It seems I am not the only one trying to take over.)—cyberpower (Talk to Me)(Contributions) 22:43, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I would love it if someone would take over the Article Blamer tool from the toolserver account as well. GoingBatty (talk) 00:41, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Getting taken care of.00:58, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

No you don't... →Στc. 01:05, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Not by me. User:TParis is taking care of it and has already gotten the edit counter up and running. You can find it here. BTW, I thought I had one. Turns out I only have the Wiki account. Facepalm—cyberpower (Talk to Me)(Contributions) 01:48, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Two more tasks that seem to have been active in 2012:

5. Remove {{REMOVE THIS TEMPLATE WHEN CLOSING THIS AfD}} from closed AfDs. (BRFA)
6. Remove {{uncategorized}} from pages that have (non-hidden) categories. (BRFA)

I may look at these, and #3 above, unless someone else wants them. Feel free to steal them from me. Anomie⚔ 21:03, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Yobot occasionally does #6. -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:33, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I've put in a BRFA for #1. Looks like other folks have the rest covered. 28bytes (talk) 22:12, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I am rewritting the code behind the bots. This should take care of most if not all of the bots. I will be placing them under Cyberbot [place roman numeral here]—cyberpower (Talk to Me)(Contributions) 03:43, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Note that Snotbot already does #5 above, although it only reports pages with this problem to a report page, it doesn't fix the problem automatically (because I believe it was decided that a bot shouldn't do this? I can't remember). As the bot already detects the problem, it could just as easily fix it instead of report it. —SW— ^chat 08:20, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I hope to have them operational and approved within 7 days. Being that these were already approved bots, I don't anticipate needing to take these through a trial.—cyberpower (Talk to Me)(Contributions) 10:46, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

If you rewrite them then I think you do.
Personally, I think it makes much more sense if TParis and Anomie take over those tasks like they offered, they have toolserver accounts and can use the tried code directly without problems.
Also, I saw that you moved some of SoxBots subpages related to WP:CHU clerking: That task doesn't need to be replaced at all, it hasn't been active for quite some time and I believe Chris G is clerking there now.
Amalthea 13:06, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Amalthea: No toolserver account for me. But only #4 really needs it, IMO, since {{uncategorized}} isn't very widely used. Anomie⚔ 17:16, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Cyberpower678: It looks like everything is "claimed" already. And Amalthea is correct: rewriting it would probably want a trial to verify that they rewritten code was correct, and Chris G Bot replaced SoxBot for clerking WP:CHU a rather long time ago. Most of SoxBot's historical tasks haven't been done by SoxBot for years now, actually. Anomie⚔ 17:16, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Scottywong: Please do take #5 then. SoxBot did it once or twice in 2012 already, so if that was decided it must have been fairly recent. Anomie⚔ 17:16, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Magioladitis: Will Yobot do it regularly enough, or should I have AnomieBOT do it? Anomie⚔ 17:16, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I've already got this project started. I've already created User:Cyberbot I to replace SoxBot. The rewrite is basically adapting SoxBot's code and replacing anything with Sox to references to my to be bot account. I've already got the majority of the code translated. My goal is to have Cyberbot I operate exactly like SoxBot did at it's last current state. This would require me to transfer the bots subpages over to mine where needed. (All of them).—cyberpower (Talk to Me)(Contributions) 18:52, 10 February 2012 (UTC)