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WikiProject Conservatism is a group dedicated to improving Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to conservatism. You can learn more about us here. If you would like to help, please join the project, inquire on the talk page and see the to-do list below. Guidelines and other useful information can be found here.


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Requests for Comment


Talk:United States presidential election in Florida, 2000

I'm opening an RfC to draw some attention to this proposal since this talk page doesn't seem to get much attention. Please offer your opinion regarding whether or not this merge should take place. Eventhorizon51 (talk) 16:21, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk:2014 Israeli shelling of UNRWA Gaza shelters

Should the lead include this statement?

The incidents occurred during the Israeli-Gaza armed conflict and, in some but not all cases, in close proximity to where intense fighting was taking place.

For Example:

The 2014 Israeli shelling of UNRWA Gaza shelters were seven shellings at UNRWA facilities in the Gaza Strip which took place between 21 July and 3 August 2014. The incidents occurred during the Israeli-Gaza armed conflict and, in some but not all cases, in close proximity to where intense fighting was taking place. The incidents were the result of artillery, mortar or aerial missile fire which struck on or near the UNRWA facilities being used to shelter civilians, and as a result at least 44 civilians, including 10 UN staff died.

Notes:

  • All seven incidents occurred during a time of an armed conflict. The directly hit facilities are located within the the three-kilometer "buffer zone" --in which IDF and Palestinian militants clashed on the ground-- which suffered the brunt of the damage.
  • Numerous sources, including the UN report state that fighting occurred "near" most of the facilities during the time frame covered in the article. For example: In the case of Beit Hanoun shelter, where the area surrounding the school was "particularly dangerous and, as hostilities intensified, the entire area was exposed to fierce combat"; In the case of Jabalia shelter "In the days prior to the incident, armed clashes between militants and the IDF were talking place in the east". In Zaitoun "In the evening, the shelling gained in intensity in the immediate vicinity of the school, where militant activity was also noted." ..
  • How near/far the fighting took place is contested. The UN report note that "none of the witnesses who had testified to UNRWA had been aware of any activity by militant groups in the school or in its "vicinity"". For example: locals "stated that there was no militant activity in the school or in its close vicinity, though one stated that she had heard rockets not far from the school"
  • In the UN report the incidents described as occurring, "in a situation of armed conflict and, in some but not all cases, in close proximity to where intense fighting was taking place." [1]

Elysans (talk) 02:07, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Supercarrier

Should a section Proposed Supercarriers be added to the article? If so, this section will summarize proposals reported in reliable sources for new supercarriers. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:43, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers

Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers § Chronological items §§ Dates, months and years §§§ Strong national ties to a topic (MOS:DATETIES) says:
  • Articles on topics with strong ties to a particular English-speaking country should generally use the date format most commonly used in that nation. For the United States, this is month before day; for most others it is day before month. Articles related to Canada may use either format, with (as always) consistency within any one article.
  • In some topic areas the customary format differs from the usual national one: for example, articles on the modern US military use day before month, in accordance with military usage.

This wording is ambiguous whether articles on US military personnel should use month–day–year (MDY) format, as is standard for general articles about the US, or day–month–year (DMY) format, as applies to other US military topics. As noted above, there is mixed usage in articles on current/recent military personnel: the trend seems to be towards MDY format, but it is unclear whether this is due to editors assuming this applies to all US-based topics without being aware of the exception for the military. There are some articles that use a mix of both formats interchangably, which is undesirable, but it is hard to know which format should be preferred in this context. Some clarification of the above wording to explicitly state whether it applies to articles on specific military personnel would be welcome. sroc 💬 08:53, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, 2015

There have been back and forth over the lead wording and sources for months now and it is about time to ask the wider community to give it a look.

The lead as proposed by some editors is-

This is a list of individual incidents and statistical breakdowns of incidents of violence, including property damage and expropriation,[1][2][3][4][5][6] involving a violation of rights,[7] taking place between Israel and Palestinians in 2015 as part of the ongoing Israeli–Palestinian conflict, but exclusive of particular events that fall within the parameters of any full outbreak of war hostilities.
Housing demolitions are regarded by Israel as justified as a deterrent response to acts of terrorism or on the grounds that the houses in question in East Jerusalem, and the occupied West Bank were built without permits from the Israeli Military Authority governing the West Bank.[8] The practice is condemned as discriminatory,[9] a form of collective punishment, sometimes as a war crime in violation of international law, by the United Nations, many human rights organizations,[10] the United Nations,[11][12] and scholars such as Meron Benvenisti and Saree Makdisi.[13] Israel has clashed with the EU's funding and construction of buildings for Palestinian residents in Area C, and ordered the demolition of 400 units saying that under international law, such structures do require Israeli permits.[14]

References

  1. ^ 'Israeli settler violence in the West Bank,' OCHA November 2011.'Violence by Israeli settlers . . . includes physical assaults, harassment, takeover of and damage to private property, obstructed access to grazing and agricultural land, and attacks on livestock and agricultural land, among others.'
  2. ^ Malin Pahlmblad, 'Israeli settler violence in Palestine,' European Parliament Directorate-General for External Policies, December 2012, p.14:'Settler violence against Palestinians takes many forms, including physical violence, destruction or vandalism of property (such as burning or uprooting trees and arson attacks on mosques), killing and stealing animals, and bathing in water wells used by Palestinians for drinking.'
  3. ^ Brian Frederking, The United Nations and US Foreign Policy: Collective Security Since the Cold War, Routledge 2007 p.157:'Most definitions say that terrorism is an intentional act of violence against persons and/or property, and it is intended to intimidate a population or influence government policy. . The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has greatly complicated this dispute. While those on one side interpret Palestinian acts of violence (particularly those suicide bombers that kill Israeli civilians) as clear acts of terrorism, those on the other side interpret Palestinian resistance to Israeli occupation as a legitimate act of national struggle. Conversely, while one side interprets Israeli policies in the occupied territories as state terrorism, the other side considers Israel to be acting in self-defense. Each side wants a definition of terrorism that implicates only the other side.'
  4. ^ Report of the Human Rights Council: Twelfth Session (14 September - 2 October 2009) Thirteenth Session (1 - 26 March 2010) Fourteenth Session (31 May - 18 June 2010) Thirteenth Special Session (27 and 28 January 2010), United Nations Publications, 2010 p.97:'Expressing its Grave concern at '(a) the continuing Israeli settlement and related activities, in violation of international law, including . . the expropriation of land, the demolition of houses, the confiscation and destruction of property . . which change the physical character and demographic composition of the occupied territories, including east Jerusalem and the Syrian Golan, and constitute a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War,’
  5. ^ Meron Benvenisti, Haaretz 2002 cited Cheryl Rubenberg, The Palestinians: In Search of a Just Peace, Lynne Rienner Publishers, 2003 p.136:'The destruction of a home is a barbaric act, and taking such a course of action, no matter what the excuse, is an act of terror that comes under the category of a war crime. . It would be hard to overstate the symbolic value of a house to an individual for whom the culture of wandering and of becoming rooted to the land is so deeply ingrained in tradition, for an individual whose national mythos is based on the tragedy of being uprooted from a stolen homeland.'
  6. ^ 'Israel's Policy of Demolishing Palestinian Homes Must End: A Submission to the UN Human Rights Council by the Israeli Committee against House Demotion,' ICAHD March 2012:'Since 1967 Israel has demolished more than 28,000 Palestinian homes, businesses, livestock facilities and other structures vital to Palestinian life and livelihood in the Occupied Palestinian Territory. The motivation for demolishing these homes is purely political, and racially informed: to either drive the Palestinians out of the country altogether (the "quiet transfer") or to confine the four million residents of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza to small, crowded, impoverished and disconnected enclaves . .Allocating land for military training is not confined to unpopulated areas but can occur in the heart of Palestinian residential communities. In the remaining 30% of the land, intended construction is conditional on complementarity with a plan endorsed by the Israeli Civil Administration, of which less than 1% satisfies this requirement. Thus Palestinians are faced with the choice of building irregularly or leaving their communities. This policy is violently enforced with the demolition of homes and other infrastructure such as schools and health clinics being a regular occurrence.'
  7. ^ 'As safe as houses? Israel's demolition of Palestinian homes,' Amnesty International, June 2010:'Palestinians living under Israeli occupation in East Jerusalem and the rest of the west bank face such tight restrictions on what they can build that their right to adequate housing is being violated. the Israeli authorities condemn as "illegal" homes and other structures built without the permits that they control and rarely allow to Palestinian residents, and then order their destruction. Demolition crews, accompanied by security officials, may arrive at any time, giving families little notice or opportunity to remove their possessions. Under Israeli military law applied to Palestinians in most of the west bank, evicted families are not rehoused or compensated. So, those evicted would face homelessness and destitution were it not for relatives, friends and charities. Palestinians in East Jerusalem fare little better under the Israeli civil authorities. .Violations of the right to adequate housing experienced by Palestinians in the oPt are both a symptom of the wider human rights violations to which Palestinians are subject and a barrier to their achievement of other human rights.. .As the occupying power, the actions of Israel in the oPt are also bound by the fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in time of War to which Israel is a signatory. Article 53 prohibits destruction of property that is not justified by military necessity.'
  8. ^ Anthony H. Cordesman, Arab-Israeli Military Forces in an Era of Asymmetric Wars,Center for Strategic and International Studies 2006 pp.71-72.
  9. ^ Mehran Kamrava, The Modern Middle East: A Political History since the First World War , University of California Press p.426 n.65:'Palestinian homes are often destroyed under the pretext of not having the proper building permits. The same requirement does not apply to homes of Jewish settlers, however. According to a statement by the Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions, 'With three unusual exceptions, in the past 30 years NO Jewish house non the West Bank has ever been threatened with demolition. . Israeli settlers are citizens of Israel and are subject only to Israeli law. None of the planning guidelines, procedures for obtaining building permits from the civilian administration or house demolition penalties applies to them. The first 21 Jewish settlements on the West Bank were done so without plans or permits and, indeed, against the stated policies and wishes of the Israeli government.'
  10. ^ 'Human Rights Watch calls on Israel to stop demolition of terrorist homes,' Haaretz 22 November 2014.
  11. ^ 'Israel illegally demolishing Palestinian homes, UN says,' The Times of Israel 24 January 2015.
  12. ^ 'UN accuses Israel of illegally razing homes of 77 Palestinians,' Ma'an News Agency 24 January 2015.:'Demolitions that result in forced evictions and displacement run counter to international law and create unnecessary suffering and tension.'
  13. ^ Saree Makdisi, Palestine Inside Out: An Everyday Occupation, W. W. Norton & Company, 2010 p.18:'Property expropriation is based on an Israeli reading of the Ottoman law of 1858, which is used to declare that all lands not registered as private at the time of Israel’s conquest of the West Bank in the 1967 Six Day War are public lands. B'Tselem has remarked that, even were that interpretation correct, the lands declared state lands are ‘public property belonging to the lawful residents of the West Bank, and as occupying power Israel is required to administer them for the benefit of that public, rather than denying Palestinians access to those lands while allocating to them to exclusive Jewish use and settlement.'
  14. ^ 'PM orders demolition of EU-funded Palestinian ‘settlements’ in West Bank,' The Times of Israel 7 February 2015.

Other editors have argued the lead and quotes in sources are unnecessarily long, not NPOV, WP:UNDUE and covers Housing demolitions which should get a separate list.

Various discussions on the subject can be found above in talk page. 21:18, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Serb Democratic Party (Bosnia and Herzegovina) {{rfcquote|text= I moved page from "Serb" to "Serbian" few days ago, under explanation that this is an official translation. However, I was reverted by Zoupan. I'll copy/paste his explanation for the revert he left on my talk page.

I think that the proper use for Serb minority parties is "Serb" and not "Serbian". However, if the party uses "Serbian" in English, I support moving it to the latter. Their official page is only in Serbian language.

These use "Serb Democratic Party":

I think you should revert your moves.--Zoupan 20:16, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk:2014 Israeli shelling of UNRWA Gaza shelters

Should the lead include this statement?

During the 2014 Israel-Gaza conflict, many Palestinians fled their homes after warnings by Israel or due to air strikes or fighting in the area. An estimated 200,000 people (10% of Gaza's population) took shelter in UNRWA schools.

Kingsindian  14:05, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Richie Farmer

Should the article include the name of Farmer's mistress? Acdixon (talk · contribs) 13:31, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Death of Freddie Gray

Undisputed RS material being removed because it's "unhelpful." I take issue with such rationale. The text being repeatedly blanked:

Marilyn Mosby, the state's attorney for Baltimore City, says Gray had five requests for medical assistance ignored by the police. One officer reportedly diagnosed Gray with "jailitis" — an apparent faked illness.[1]

  1. ^ Mark Puente and Meredith Cohn. "Freddie Gray among many suspects who do not get medical care from Baltimore police". The Baltimore Sun. Retrieved May 12, 2015. 

I am the contributor who originally added the content, full disclosure. Toe of the Almighty Camel (talk) 16:02, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk:A Voice for Men

Question 1:

Should commentators describing the site as "hateful" and "misogynistic" be named individually and if so, is it appropriate to identify the feminist critics as feminists given the anti-feminist nature of the site?

Question 2: Is the size and detail of the criticism section appropriate given the breadth of citable criticism? If we were to expand it, which of the following tests for inclusion best applies:

  • Criticism raises an issue not previously raised
  • Criticism raises no new issues but either the author or RS is particularly notable
  • Criticism meets basic RS standards
  • Other

DallyKale (talk) 04:18, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk:2015 Kumanovo shootings

Should the the title of this article be Battle of Kumanovo (2015), 2015 Kumanovo shootings, or 2015 Kumanovo clashes?
  • Comment: I support the original title, the one I have made - 2015 Kumanovo clashes. The reason is simple. Kumanovo shooting would mean there was a minor incident, where a lone wolf got into some building and started shooting, for example like in the 2015 Zvornik police station shooting. Therefore, the name would be misleading. The second name, Battle of Kumanovo, is also misleading, but in an opposite direction. It would mean there was a major confrontation, which it wasn't. There were clashes, and only this term is appropriate for this event. --AnulBanul (talk) 23:40, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Central Intelligence Agency

To reduce page length, a WP:SPINOUT was created that moved content from Central Intelligence Agency to History of the Central Intelligence Agency. This has now been reverted twice by one user. Per the editing guideline WP:SIZERULE, articles over 100 kilobytes should "almost certainly should be divided". The article is presently at 172 97 kilobytes readable prose size. Users in threads above on the talk page have suggested that this split of the History section would serve to functionally reduce the page's size and better-organize it, while others have opposed this. Some have also suggested additional various means to reduce the page's length. North America1000 14:25, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk:List of largest cities in the European Union by population within city limits

*Comment Initiating an RfC, since there as been no response in three days and this needs to be dealt with. Safiel (talk) 04:33, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Death of Freddie Gray

The majority of the sources describe the protagonists as "white" or "black", but there are concerns that these distinctions offer an unneeded contrast, and arguments for advancing the use of "African American and "Caucasian" as more neutral have been voiced.

Comment with:

  • (A) for "white" and "black"
  • (B) for "Caucasian" and "African American"

Comments

  • (A) - Best is to follow the sources rather than our personal preferences. - Cwobeel (talk) 21:28, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Template:Rfc/testcases

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Deletion discussions


Conservatism

List of war veterans associated with neoconservativism

List of war veterans associated with neoconservativism (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
(Find sources: "List of war veterans associated with neoconservativism" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR)

A half-hearted mini-list that serves no great encyclopedic value. And Adoil Descended (talk) 20:17, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Well that was quick. How many minutes do you allow for a stub to become whole-hearted? There has been substantial media focus on the conspicuous absence of war vets among the neocon movement. Thus it is valuable to the public to know those who have served. Sure, a list of notable neocons who have not served would be quite extensive, but that would be a little odd, no?Wormcast (talk) 20:28, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
It is a bit obvious that this article is not going to work, primarily because its basic concept seems to be making a political rather than an encyclopedic point. And it might make sense to remove John Bolton from the list, as he never participated in combat during a war. And Adoil Descended (talk) 20:38, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
One has only to serve in the armed forces to be considered a war veteran; participation in direct combat is not required. -Wormcast (talk) 00:08, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Delete Apart from the issues that there is no way this is an "encyclopedic", it opens the door to throw names into a category without asserting why it is notable to do so? (e.g. should there be a list article for all of the topics that veterans "associate with"?). Chrislk02 Chris Kreider 20:55, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
The "associated with" phrasing of the title was based on the language appearing on the Neoconservativism page; i.e. "Notable people associated with neoconservativism". I am unopposed to altering the title to "Neocons who have served in the armed forces" to avoid your objection. -Wormcast (talk) 00:03, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Conservatism-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:33, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
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  • Delete - per nom; based on list creator's comments, this list is politically motivated. If there has been "substantial media focus on the conspicuous absence of war vets among the neocon movement" than it would qualify for its own article. Compiling it as a list seems like a way of getting around WP:GNG. МандичкаYO 😜 02:10, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Delete. Completely pointless and obviously going to be POV. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:07, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Speedy delete per WP:G3. Politically motivated, deliberately misleading, pointy article designed to make a political point by listing people with no combat service or who joined National Guard to avoid the Vietnam war. Colapeninsula (talk) 09:13, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Left-wing conspiracy

Left-wing conspiracy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
(Find sources: "Left-wing conspiracy" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR)

According to the first edit summary, this article was created as WP:POINTy response to vast right-wing conspiracy (which is a specific phrase unlike this). Pretty clear the article fails to deliver because there are no sources for this broad use of "left-wing conspiracy" and the only sourced chapters is OR websites and blogs. Pudeo' 09:58, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

  • Delete/TNT - fails WP:FRINGE; appears to be set up to defame Democracy Alliance, only sources are blogs. "Vast right-wing conspiracy" seems to have specific notability as a unique phrase thanks to the "vast." МандичкаYO 😜 10:35, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Delete - article was clearly created to make a point, cited sources don't really demonstrate the need for an article on this (ie, the notability or widespread use of the phrase). Fyddlestix (talk) 14:35, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment - I wanted to add that I see potential for an article to exist with a WP:WORLDVIEW perspective so I also added WP:TNT. The claims of "Left-wing conspiracy" UK Israel and "right-wing conspiracy" UK French (conspiration d’extrême droite) are used around the world. An encyclopedic article about both terms has potential. Someone who is not me would have to see if there's enough coverage of it directly to meet GNG. Also, the phrase "Vast left-wing conspiracy" is used frequently now, usually in opinion pieces. I can see that article existing if there was a way for it to be neutral coverage of the term, and not just baseless accusations by bloggers about the Clintons and MSNBC and the Stonecutters or whoever. МандичкаYO 😜 20:48, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:16, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Conspiracy theories-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:16, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
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  • Delete No evidence it meets notability. TFD (talk) 14:22, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Obvious delete. Poorly-sourced POV nonsense. Gamaliel (talk) 17:27, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

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