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This is an informal place to resolve small content disputes as part of dispute resolution and get assistance to the right place; request for comment, mediation or other noticeboard, if involving other issues. You can ask a question on the talk page. This is an early stop for most disputes on Wikipedia. You are not required to participate. Any editor may volunteer! Click this button Button rediriger.png to add your name! You don't need to volunteer to help. Please feel free to comment below on any case. Be civil and remember guidelines and policy when discussing issues. Noticeboards should not be a substitute for talk pages. Editors are expected to have had extensive discussion on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to work out the issues before coming to DRN.

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Case Created Last volunteer edit Last modified
Title Status User Time User Time User Time
Talk:Mirza Ghulam_Ahmad#edits_by_xtremedood 2In Progress FreeatlastChitchat (t) 2015-03-21 06:13:00 Keithbob (t) 2015-04-17 21:53:00 Xtremedood (t) 2015-04-18 21:22:00
Talk:Brown rice 7Closed 2602:306:C5E1:A830:A159:83CC:87D0:81C1 (t) 2015-04-17 05:45:00 TransporterMan (t) 2015-04-17 13:18:00 TransporterMan (t) 2015-04-17 13:18:00
Talk:Emina (poem) 1New Sabahudin9 (t) 2015-04-17 06:29:00 None n/a Sabahudin9 (t) 2015-04-17 06:29:00
Female infanticide in India 1New Future Perfect at Sunrise (t) 2015-04-19 10:21:00 None n/a Future Perfect at Sunrise (t) 2015-04-19 10:21:00
Last updated by DRN clerk bot (talk) at 10:30, 19 April 2015 (UTC)



Current disputes[edit]

Talk:Mirza Ghulam_Ahmad#edits_by_xtremedood[edit]

Pictogram voting wait blue.svg – Discussion in progress.
Filed by FreeatlastChitchat on 06:13, 21 March 2015 (UTC).


Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

Users involved

Dispute overview

According to Ahmadi Claims Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad A.S fulfilled a prophecy that said , "For our Mahdi, there are two signs which have never happened since the earth and the heavens were created, i.e., the moon will be eclipsed on the first of the possible nights in the month of Ramadan and the sun will be eclipsed in the middle of the possible days of the month of Ramadhan." As is clear from the above statement the claim of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani A.S is that 1)The Moon will be eclipsed on the first possible night in Ramadhan, 2)The Sun will be eclipsed on the middle of possible nights in Ramadhan, Now Xtremedood wants to add "criticism" to this which is "Critics also say that the lunar eclipse did not occur on the first night of Ramadan and the solar eclipse did not occur on the middle day of the month as detailed in the prophecy. Some critics also maintain the prophecy refers to eclipses that will happen before the arrival of the Mahdi, not after." I contest to this addition. I will explain my reservations in my comment below.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

talk on talk page only

How do you think we can help?

Remove unreliably sourced material and protect the page.

Summary of dispute by Xtremedood[edit]

The article in question contains material that is against Wikipedia's neutrality policy (NPOV). The prophecy outlined states: "For our Mahdi there are two signs which have never appeared before since the creation of the heavens and the earth, namely the moon will be eclipsed on the first night in Ramadhan and the sun will be eclipsed on the middle day in the same month of Ramadhan, and these signs have not appeared since God created the heavens and the earth." — Dar Qutni Vol. 1, page 188.

According to the "Ahmadiyya" viewpoint, Mirza fulfilled this prophecy (which is detailed in the article), however, according to opponents, Mirza did not fulfill this prophecy. There are three main points of criticism that I want to remain on the article (as to retain NPOV), they are: 1) criticisms pertaining to the veracity of the prophecy itself, 2) the indication that critics do not believe the eclipses occured on the 1st and middle-day (~15th) of Ramadan 1894/1895 respectively (as outlined in the prophecy), and 3) according to critics, the prophecy is referring to before the arrival of the Mahdi, not after. These criticisms are highlighted in a variety of different sources and I have mentioned them in the page's talk page.

The dispute is centered around FreeatlastChitchat's unwillingness to bring about legitimate criticisms to Mirza's claims and my willingness to do so. Xtremedood (talk) 08:32, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Mirza Ghulam_Ahmad#edits_by_xtremedood discussion[edit]

Issue #1[edit]

Summary of Issue #1 - OK we've identified some common ground here and we've agreed that academic sources cite two different translations and per this essay it would be prudent to give both translations in the article and attribute them to their respective sources. With that I'm closing this section of the discussion and we can move on to the final issue surrounding the use of criticism and their corresponding sources.-- KeithbobTalk 18:07, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Issue #2[edit]

What is the next sentence and corresponding citation(s) that you would like to discuss?-- KeithbobTalk 18:14, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

I think the next issue is the "criticisms". I would like to suggest a compromise where any criticism which does not use the word Qadiani is added and the response from the ahmadiyyah is added after the criticism. Any comments regarding this?FreeatlastChitchat (talk) 03:23, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
Hello, I think it is important to include criticisms in this section. Prior to my edits, the article contained only 1 criticism. Freeatlastchitchat would eventually delete all the criticisms. This one criticism was criticisms pertaining to the veracity of the prophecy itself (i.e. veracity of the prophecy, dispute of the authenticity of the source, the source is weak, etc.). I also wish to include 3 more criticisms (a total of 4) to the section. They are as followed: 2) the indication that critics do not believe that the eclipses occurred on the 1st and middle-day (~15th) of Ramadan 1894/1895 respectively (as outlined in the prophecy, according to the translation provided in the Zeki source of the quote on issue 1(Islamic studies magazine)), 3) according to critics, the prophecy is referring to before the arrival of the Mahdi, not after, and 4) the criticism by David McNaughton, who outlines that even according to the tranlsation + interpretation of the initial quote by the "Ahmadiyyah" (which is from the Adamson's source of the quote on issue 1), the eclipses did not potentially occur as described by "Ahmadis." David McNaughton makes it clear that the "Ahmadiyyah" claim of the eclipses happening on the 13th and 28th of Ramadhan is prone to error as the eclipses may have happened on the 12th and 27th.
The sources for the first criticism are:[21] and [22]
The source for the second criticism is: [23] on page 100.
The source for the third criticism is: [24] on page 100 (same page as last one).
The sources for the fourth criticism are: [25] and [26], the first link is from what seems to be his official site. Xtremedood (talk) 08:16, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
I am fine with inclusion of four criticisms if the Ahmadiyyah response is included with them. However, I can't agree with the sourcing as they use the derogatory slur "Qadiani" to refer to the Ahmadiyyah. I am fine with using David McNaughton if it is mentioned alongside his "surmise" that almost all muslims start and end lunar months with "visibility" of the moon and not "astrological positions of the moon". So basically criticism number four is good to go if you want to use the official website, and if you can replace the sources for the first three I can agree with those too, but at the present these books are not reliable.FreeatlastChitchat (talk) 09:55, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
I'm watching and reading along. Let's see what the response is to this proposed compromise.-- KeithbobTalk 21:53, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
The term 'Qadiani' is not derogatory, as it refers to a place (Qadian in India). Mirza was from Qadian, in India. The terms '"Ahmadiyya"' and '"Ahmadi"' derive from one of the names of the holy Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ, blessings of Allah be upon him and peace be upon him) which is 'Ahmad'. Muslims believe that the name 'Ahmad' is so holy that it should not be utilized for a group of people who believe in a different prophet after the holy Prophet Muhammad (ﷺ, blessings of Allah be upon him and peace be upon him). Mirza claimed to be a prophet. Muslims consider the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) to be the final Prophet as described in the Quran (Chapter 33 verse 40). "Ahmadis" however disagree. Since this is a theological difference of belief (not racism or prejudice) I believe that the term 'Qadiani' should be allowed. It has been the official position of the Government of Pakistan to utilize the term 'Qadiani' for the followers of Mirza. If the Government of Pakistan were operating upon legitimate positions of racism and prejudice it should be held accountable under International law, since racism and prejudice violates international law. However there is no case of the Government of Pakistan ever being held accountable for utilizing the term 'Qadiani' since this term stems from theological differences of belief, definitely NOT racism, discriminiation or prejudice. Since the term 'Qadiani' is based on theological differences (NOT racism, discrimination or prejudice) and Wikipedia is in no position to interpret theological discourse, the term 'Qadiani' should therefore be allowed.
Also, for criticism number 1, the following source does not utilize the term 'Qadiani.' [27]
So far then, criticisms number 1 and number 4 seem legitimate according to both parties. Xtremedood (talk) 21:22, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Talk:Brown rice[edit]

Symbol comment vote.svg – General close. See comments for reasoning.
Filed by 2602:306:C5E1:A830:A159:83CC:87D0:81C1 on 05:45, 17 April 2015 (UTC).

Talk:Emina (poem)[edit]

Symbol wait old.png – New discussion.
Filed by Sabahudin9 on 06:29, 17 April 2015 (UTC).


Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

Users involved

Dispute overview

User:Yerevani Axjik began editing Emina on 5 April 2015. The poem was written by a Bosnian Serb writer in the year 1902 about a Bosnian girl. The user removed any mention of the poem being Bosnian, the girls ethnicity was changed from Bosniak to the offensive Yugoslav-era term Bosnian Muslim and added Serbian categories to the article. I reverted the edits and we have been having a discussion on the articles talk page about the users edits, which I feel to be nationalistic, for the past few days but it's getting no where between the two of us.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

I have reverted the users edits

How do you think we can help?

We need an outsiders opinion.

Summary of dispute by Yerevani Axjik[edit]

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Talk:Emina (poem) discussion[edit]

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

Female infanticide in India[edit]

Symbol wait old.png – New discussion.
Filed by Future Perfect at Sunrise on 10:21, 19 April 2015 (UTC).


Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

Users involved

Dispute overview

User:Darkness Shines wishes to illustrate the article with an image despite the fact that it is demonstrably an illustration of a historical situation different from the topic of the article. The article is about "female infanticide" (a well-established, notable topic with respect to India), and the 19th-century drawing is presented to the reader as a matter of course as if it was a straightforward illustration of this topic, but in fact this drawing purports to show a different, unrelated pattern of infanticide, an alleged religious practice of human sacrifice that was not gender-specific but whose victims were children of either sex. DS has brought no arguments against this explanation on the talkpage, but appears to believe (based on some misreading of WP:IMAGE RELEVANCE) that he can use historically unrelated images "for illustrative purposes" just the same [28]. He has reinserted the image at least 6 times, reverting 3 different users (one of them, admittedly, an abusive sock), and his latest reverts appear to show a refusal to engage in constructive discussion or listen to any arguments.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

None so far apart from explaining the issue on the talkpage – in fact, I'm doubtful if this should be treated as a content dispute in the first place, as it's more a matter of plain old disruptive editing, but I'd like to give it one more chance here.

How do you think we can help?

Somebody please point out the obvious to DS: you can't use an image showing situation X and pretend it's an illustration of situation Y.

Summary of dispute by Darkness Shines[edit]

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Female infanticide in India discussion[edit]

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.