Wikipedia:External links/Noticeboard

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This page is for reporting possible breaches of the external links policy.
  • Post questions here regarding whether particular external links are appropriate or compliant with Wikipedia's guidelines for external links.
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TS Roadmap[edit]

Recently User:Carolmooredc has removed a bunch of external links to the site such as [1], claiming that the links fall under Advocacy. She also notes that the owner of the site has been banned. ( Specifically she is topic banned ( not site banned ) on the subject of human sexuality, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Sexology for details. ) The links in question were originally added by other users, often around the time of the article creation. I believe that the links in question are a useful and curated resource and fall on the side of being useful to have, with the exceptions of certain articles and sections of the site. I have reverted one of the removals, but would like additional input before I decide to either revert my revert or look at restoring the link to other articles on a case-by-case basis. PaleAqua (talk) 01:53, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Also wanted to be clear I support some removals such as this one, though that was one used as a source, not an external link. I've quickly gone through the remaining links to the site ( most of the remaining are on talk pages and archives ) and don't see any other ones that might be problematic from a BLP pov. PaleAqua (talk) 02:43, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia:External links says that "Links normally to be avoided" include those that are "Advertising and conflicts of interest" and I think this definitely falls in the former category; not familiar enough with circumstances to know if the latter category is Relevant. It also notes "In biographies of living people" which reads: External links in biographies of living persons must be of high quality and are judged by a higher standard than for other articles. That doesn't include someone's personal website giving recommendations on whether someone is a good doctor or not. Also, I noticed three other External links to personal web sites are dead links and they also should be removed. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 08:21, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
If the dead links are in external links they can go. (If they are used as sources ( and are reliable ) then replacements should be found or they should be marked as {{dead_link}} and possibly an archive link added. Just because as source link is dead does not mean it can be removed. Similar to sources to out of print books etc, the source doesn't need to be online to be used.) For the cases of Blanchard's etc, I can see a POV issue and possible COI, in other cases this is a well known site, and it is a curated collection of multiple reports, not just as personal site. I can see if being a little greyer issue. Especially if the reports are negative. If I recall with Meltzer, though it has been a while since I read though it completely the reviews were generally positive which is one reason I felt more comfortable reverting that one vs. the others prior to discussion. I'm not sure if advertising applies as it wasn't the site owner that added the links. The other thing to note some of these links have been present a long time even through the conflicts that want through arbcom. I imagine if there were issues with them they would have been examined and gone through at that point. PaleAqua (talk) 09:14, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
I think this link fails Wikipedia:External_links#Links_normally_to_be_avoided in some form under 4.1 Advertising and conflicts of interest; biographies of living people' and Avoid undue weight on particular points of view. There are a bunch like that on related type articles. Dead links for high quality sources doesn't apply to lower quality and questionable sources like these. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 17:09, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
The list is here, and it looks like only 19 (13%) of them are in the mainspace at the moment. A glance at Carol's contributions suggest that perhaps about 10 have been removed, almost all from biographies. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:57, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
Yes, that's what I saw when checking as well, had the same link list up earlier. Mostly in talk pages or archives. A handful still in article space, Carol removed a few that were in BLPs. I reverted one before noticing the other and switching to discussion. I do think that if they are restored it needs to be on a case by case bases. I am of a different opinion then Carol on some of the concerns but can see how it could go either way. ( I don't think it falls under the advertising clause. And I'm not sure I would consider Jokestress to have a COI issue, but more a point of view issue over a closely related topic which I don't think is at play here in most of the cases. ( See the Carol's removal in Blanchard's typology I noted above for a case where it might be in play. ) PaleAqua (talk) 22:14, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
I don't really mean to be bureaucratic about it, but it looks like a good deal of those removals were as sources, and ELN doesn't deal with sources at all; that's WP:RSN's territory. How many removals (or potential removals) were actually under the ==External links== banner and not BLP-related? WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:17, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
That's a really good question. The ones I looked at were external links. And those are the ones my opinion differs. The ones used as a source are a different kettle of fish. It's probably why your count of 10 looked a little high to me when I first saw it. I do not have the issue of removals used as sources. I would consider TS Roadmap to be similar to linking Yelp, Urban-Spoon or the like. Better to use a meta-critic like site for sources if necessary, but considering that TS Roadmap is one of the best know review collection site seems ( at least in my opinion, hence the question here ) to be worthwhile as an external link. PaleAqua (talk) 22:30, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
In particular, see the pages for surgeons Toby Meltzer, Stanley Biber, and Suporn Watanyusakul; as well as Deep Stealth Productions. I also think what it might be useful as an external link at Douglas Ousterhout where it was removed as a source. PaleAqua (talk) 22:46, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
First, thanks for info on searching for external links. Most seem to be talk pages. I was concerned about a number of such SPS testimonials by various individuals used in external links, not just this one individual's. Toby Meltzer has four links, all dead. Did a quick search of Category:Surgeons specializing in transgender medicine and didn't find any. So not as likely to look through Category:American_plastic_surgeons.
TSRoad map still seems to fall under Wikipedia:External_links#Links_normally_to_be_avoided in some form under 4.1 Advertising and conflicts of interest; biographies of living people' and Avoid undue weight on particular points of view. I know some SPS sites used in external links in other topic areas were brought to WP:BLPN last year and nixed. So I do see BLPN as the final judge for BLPs. Of course, I feel I've wasted more than enough time on this specific issue.
But am surprised that advocacy and promotional sites being given so much slack since have seen them slashed out of a lot of political and economics articles over the last year. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 03:24, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Yeah the link search tool is really useful. There was another one that search across different language sites in the past that I've used in the past, but can't remember where it is right now. Was useful for dealing with problematic source links. Looks like the link at Douglas Ousterhout got put back in. I just checked through the Toby link's and about 4 or 5 of the dozen or so at TS Roadmap seem to be dead. For the other links at the articles 3 of the external ones that are dead are to Anne Lawrence site. Let me fix them, though not making a comment for keeping them by doing so. Do you have a link to the discussion from last year? I still don't see how the pages in question are advocacy or promotional. I still don't see how a collection of surgery results and photos counts as advocacy. I also don't see any advertising involved. Gender reassignment surgery is not something that the owner of the site performs. She is not the one that originally added the link. The pages do not seem to say go to this surgeon or not that surgeon. They aren't even a part of the site that extolls either the benefits or determents of the greater picture on if surgery is the right choice. They just document the results. Note that SPS are may be valid if they are from an expert in the field. I would definitely say that Andrea James is a notable expert and TS Roadmap is a well known repository of information. PaleAqua (talk) 04:29, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Dead links under ==External links== should always be removed or replaced. Also, looking at Toby Meltzer, there are three links to the same site, which is generally not desirable per WP:ELPOINTS #4. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:59, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Agreed, sources that have become deadlines are still sources, external links that are dead are useless. For the duplicates as I noted in my link-vivifying comment they should be merged with the index link. And since that's unrelated to the TS Roadmap link in question going to make that change now. PaleAqua (talk) 22:49, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

As the only apparent defender of the external link self reverting my restoration of it as it has been 7 days. Note this does not mean that I support the removal and I still believe that it is a valuable resource, but not interested in standing alone. PaleAqua (talk) 01:14, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Always nice to run into a reasonable editor :-) Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 19:28, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Honorverse wikia[edit]

At Honorverse (book series) article, several editors agreed to link to the Honorverse wikia ([2]). One user raised concerns about how this wikia may violate WP:ELNEVER due to its use of copyrighted images, some going beyond fair use, and after over a week of discussion we are clearly deadlocked, with none being able to convince the other party of their arguments superiority. It is my understanding that ELNEVER does not prohibit us from linking to such sites, as long as we don't link directly to infringing content, which is not the intent here (we just want to add a link to the Honorverse wikia main page to the article's external link section). Further, looking at past discussions here and at our other practices, it seems that it is acceptable to link to large, active wikis in such a fashion, when there is a consensus that such a wikia is a valuable resource for our readers. Few examples: We do link to some wikia sites. Yu-gi-oh Wikia ([3]) is linked from Yu-Gi-Oh!, following a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Anime_and_manga/Archive_45#Allow_external_links_to_Yu-Gi-Oh.21_Wikia.3F. Naruto links to Naruto wiki ([4]). Memory Alpha ([5]) wikia linked from Star Trek or Wookiepedia ([6]) linked from Star Wars. Young Justice (TV series) links to Young Justice wikia ([7]), following a discussion at Wikipedia:External_links/Noticeboard/Archive_14. I'd like to hear thoughts of EL experts on the case of Honorverse wikia, which at over 8k articles (thus about five times larger than the Young Justice wikia which was discussed here), edited daily, seems like a very valuable resource to link from the Honorverse page. Thoughts? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 17:02, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

I'll comment only on the copyvio issue: Normally, when we evaluate the suitability of a link, we are evaluating the suitability of the single, exact page that's being linked, not other stuff that happens to be on the site. With copyrights (and anything else with potential legal complications), then you need to use some judgment: If we're talking about some website, then the fact that the home page is all legal—and all the rest is illegal—is not a good enough justification. But if you're linking to the main page, then the fact that a few of the 8,000 other pages on that website contain some copyvios is not necessarily a barrier (or even that a few percent of them might contain some copyvios: it's worth remembering that where Wikipedians generally draw the line is much higher than where US law does, so we sometimes tend to overstate the existence of problems). WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:47, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
@WhatamIdoing: Good points. So to be clear: you think that linking to Honorverse wikia would be as acceptable as linking to Memory Alpha, Wookiepedia or other examples I cited in the op? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:07, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
I have no opinion at all on the Honorverse wiki link. I've never looked at it. I only say that the presence of a small number of possible copyvios somewhere else in the site is not necessarily a bar to linking to a page that does not have any copyvios. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:53, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Note that for a Wiki, often the main pages reflect content or show content (we show featured pages on the main page). Although I agree with WhatamIdoing (we have other reasons to exclude fair-usable material), point is that WP:COPYRIGHT does strictly disallow linking to sites which carry work in violation of a copyright. Wikipedia has an educational target, and can use a lot of copyrighted material under a fair-use flag (not that our pillars would want us to, but that is a different matter). It however depends on the external wikis form whether it is allowed to use material under fair-use too. The above mentioned certainly seem reasonable at first sight, but wikis can have a completely different target (there are commercial wikis out there as well), where fair-use can simply not be claimed in any form. --Dirk Beetstra T C 03:40, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
@Beetstra: Honorverse wiki is a regular, non-commercial site, neither selling anything, nor carrying any pirated works (outside the usual abandon of images, some exceeding fair use, but not mote than the well-estabilished Wookiepiedia, Memory Alpha or other wikis). Since here, at ELN, I am asking about "yay or nay" for linking to this specific wikia, Honorverse, would you mind commenting on whether this case is acceptable, or if not, what makes Honorverse wikia different from the other examples linked in my op? Thanks! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:07, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
I am not saying they are different. If Wookiepedia and the others are similar to Honorverse, and the verdict is that we would be linking here to copyvios (when 'featured' or whatever on the main page) .. that would mean the same thing for the other wikias. What I will add is that it should not be our goal to include external links, we are writing an encyclopedia here, not a linkfarm or an internet directory. If people are looking for the Honorverse or Star Wars wiki, that is what search engines are for - and I do not think that omitting these wikis is detrimental to the understanding of the topic as described by this encyclopedia, it is just additional info that one can get. It's not worth the electrons. --Dirk Beetstra T C 05:00, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

@WhatamIdoing, Beetstra: Would you mind commenting on the Honorverse wiki, because so far this discussion is still not helping - the same editor who went against the page consensus at Talk:Honorverse before is still reverting the inclusion of the link, arguing that the discussion here is not conclusive/not relevant/does support the removal of the link. The purpose of me posting here was to see whether neutral EL experts would support one of the sides in the argument there, and while I find your comments quite valuable, unfortunately they are too general to help us. So: Honorverse wiki link: yay or nay? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:06, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

@Piotrus: - My stance here is clear - if the mainpage of the wikia linked to features material in violation of copyright, it should not be linked to. Whatever consensus on a talkpage you have, it does not trump our policies and guidelines, especially not WP:COPYRIGHT (and some others). I am not going to get into the dispute itself, I have over and over commented on the general problems and general issues. And I still believe that it is not our goal here to include external links, we are writing an encyclopedia here, not a linkfarm. You have dodged the question ignored the remark, whether not linking to the wikia is detrimental to the understanding of the page, etc. --Dirk Beetstra T C 03:43, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
  • All large sites have a certain percentage of copyvios. Our link does not guarantee that everything on the site is clean. If the main page of a site is not itself copyio, and does not primarily serve the purpose of linking to copyvio, this is sufficient justification to linking to the site. After all, we do link to other WPedias, and does anyone want to claim that all of them follow copyright exactly without a few errors and misapprehensions slipping in? Beetsrta is in my opinion way over-zealous to the point of impracticality. WP is an encyclopedia, and exists to provide basic information and to guide to further information. When there are pages on the net that extent our content , we not only can must emphatically ought to link to it. We are in a limited sense a guide to that small portion of the internet that extend our contents, just as we are a guide to all the copyright non free published material that extends our content. DGG ( talk ) 14:28, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Our overriding concern should be the quality of our articles and informing the reader; all else is secondary (for example, protecting the WMF from legal harm is useful only insofar as it serves the reader). So the question here is, given Wikipedia's well-known proclivities for trimming fiction articles, is the reader well-served by linking to the Honorverse Wikia? Certainly yes. Is there any copyright danger to some of their arguably-fairuse image usage? Certainly not. The Wikia is the target for any legal action, and in any case, the relevant parties are completely uninterested in harming the fan communities which keep the franchise selling so well; I will point out that Baen & David Weber have gone so far as to put several Honorverse works into the Baen Free Library - they are literally voluntarily giving away copies, believing this increases sales of other work, and if giving away entire works is something they think is a good idea, how much more so a wiki? --Gwern (contribs) 19:17 6 July 2014 (GMT)

List of Playboy Playmates of 2014[edit]

This page is a classic collection of every possible external link, handily embedded in the article. It appears the tradition goes back to List of Playboy Playmates of 1954 (see the navbox at the bottom). Does anyone recall this issue being discussed? Johnuniq (talk) 10:20, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

No need for discussion, this plainly fails WP:EL and WP:NOT. Wikilink to the Wikipage of the subject is enough (and there the official website of the subject should be listed, not every online presence). --Dirk Beetstra T C 11:32, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
Agree with Beetstra. The use of Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook links is highly inappropriate. ThemFromSpace 18:21, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
I have started cleaning out, there is also a wiki, standard linked from the final external links, and I have problems with seeing '' being the official website for these lists - there may be an appropriate link there, but .. not everything needs to have or has an official external link. Also pruned those. --Dirk Beetstra T C 03:44, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
Oh, my. That page needs both weeding and BLP-quality sourcing. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:20, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
I take exception to any claim that there is "No need for discussion." While these pages (the Lists of Playboy Playmates) are prone to collecting excessive external links, particularly for social media and for-profit blogs that are not official Playboy sites (despite some having names like "Playboy Blog"), at least two types of external link are fully appropriate. One type is the official website of the particular Playmate, assuming that it is has not become a deadlink. And the second is an official link of Playboy, not for the company as a whole but for that particular Playmate.
It is appropriate to link the Playmate's own website if she has one, because she is one of the subjects of the List of Playmates and she should be able to say something for herself. The link for Playboy about that Playmate is expressly allowed under WP:EL as an "official site" directly related to the subject at hand. "Playmates" are the creation of Playboy, after all, and Playboy is the ultimate authority regarding who is or is not a Playmate, and where they can be found as Playmates.
There should of course be only one such link, and the best candidate for such a link is the Playboy Wiki -- and specifically its page for the Playmate named in that entry on the List of Playmates. Despite the word "Wiki" in its name, which may raise a red flag with certain contributors here, the Playboy Wiki does not, as Wikipedia does, have hordes of contributors both competent and not. It has the form of a wiki, but it was established by executives of PEI and is maintained by organizers appointed by them and who closely monitor the relative handful of active contributors. In practical terms, the Playboy Wiki is the best single official Playboy site to link to because its page for any particular Playmate consolidates all the information regarding where she can be found _as a Playmate_ on every other official Playboy site. Links to have long been accepted as external links, but especially since that site was outsourced by PEI, it does little more than confirm that so-and-so is a Playmate, and then directs viewers to "Playboy Plus" which is only accessible to paying members. In contrast, a Playmate's page at the Playboy Wiki lists her every appearance at the free site, at "Playboy Plus", at the still-archived previous paysites (the Cyber Club, Playboy Girls Network, and Special Editions Club), and at Playboy.TV, In most cases, the Playboy Wiki page also lists information relating to that Playmate's appearances in Playboy's print publications and in Playboy videos—even old videos that may only be available as VHS tapes and may not be listed at IMDb. No other site does all that, and it is all directly relevant to anyone seeking information about any given Playmate _as a Playmate_. And unlike a Playmate's page here in Wikipedia, the Playboy Wiki reveals nothing that might violate her personal privacy. Only what she chooses to reveal herself in the course of her role as a Playmate, posing for pictures and video. Wikilister (talk) 11:10, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
That page needs citations, not external links. The social network links are especially unwanted per WP:ELNO#social. The only WP:ELOFFICIAL link should be the link. Each individual entry should not contain external links.- MrX 13:32, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
  • I started working on the Playboy lists some years ago, focusing more on the lists in general, but noticing and removing the inappropriate external links. See Talk:List_of_Playboy_Playmates_of_1955. --Ronz (talk) 16:07, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Related discussion here. --Ronz (talk) 16:18, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
Wikilister, the subject of the page is not "Miss July", or whatever the models are called these days. The subject is "Playboy Playmates of 2014". Therefore, the only possible WP:ELOFFICIAL link is to a page or website about all of the 2014 models, presumably hosted at Playboy's own website. "Miss July" only gets a link to her own "official" website if the article is entirely about her (i.e., it does not include the other eleven models for that year).
The far more important point is that the page (last I looked) contained zero WP:Citations to WP:Reliable sources, and it's a WP:BLP-oriented page. If you don't get some proper citations on that page ASAP, then it could get deleted. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:24, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
I did not start any of the "Playmate Lists", and I am not versed in Wikipedia's means of handling citations. I do try to improve the lists with what I do know: appropriate links to further information. But most of those lists, which have been up for years, do have the required citations.
Re your first paragraph, I take it then that you won't object to me adding back the links that were at the bottom of most of these lists — links not to the home page, which does not focus on any given year's Playmates, but links to the appropriate sections of a Playmate index at Playboy Wiki. Of course, you have to know something about Playboy, its various sites, and "what the models are called these days" to appreciate the difference, but those links would be better focused on the subject of the article (the 12 Playmates of a given year), and still hosted on one of Playboy's own websites: Playboy Wiki.
To save time re predictable objections: Playboy Wiki meets every one of the requirements of WP:ELOFFICIAL. And although it is a wiki in form, it meets the exception in WP:ELNO #12: "except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors". For what it's worth, it is also vastly smaller and far more closely monitored than Wikipedia. Most of its content is generated by, and all of it reviewed by, the "organizers" appointed by Playboy executives.
It is not a "fansite" either, but since at least one objector has tried to dismiss it as such, it escapes under the very section cited against it: ""Fansites" ... are not considered official websites because the subject of the article cannot control the information being presented." But the subject (Playboy) _does_ control the information. The section cited is in the form of "A" because of "B". Logically, ~B implies ~A. The reason for considering it "not official" does not apply. Overkill, perhaps, but Playboy Wiki additionally meets WP:ELMAYBE #4, assuming that you accept information from other official Playboy sites as knowledgeable sources, even though Playboy Wiki editors often seem to point out errors at the other sites, which later get corrected. Wikilister (talk) 11:56, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
"Playboy Wiki" can only meet the requirements of ELOFFICIAL if Playboy Wiki (the website itself, not the magazine it talks about) is the subject of the Wikipedia article. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:02, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
As long as we're all getting a lesson in WP:EL, I thought that a lesson in WP:ES would be beneficial as well.
From WP:ES: "It is considered good practice to provide a summary for every edit... Accurate summaries help other contributors decide whether it is worthwhile for them to review an edit, and to understand the change should they choose to review it."
It would have saved a lot of my, and other's, time if the editors who were carrying out the consensus of this discussion would have provided a link to it in their edit summaries instead of vaguely making references to WP:EL. EL is several screen views long with several sub-sections. Meanwhile, this discussion sums up the reasons for the edits succinctly. Now, if you don't mind, I have better things to do than instruct experienced editors on basic wiki-etiqutte. Dismas|(talk) 05:16, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
The article looks much nicer after the cleanup. What it needs now is prose expansion of the individual playmates. Without the linkclutter this is obvious. The links really served as a distraction from building encyclopedic content; they promoted linkbuilding instead of content creation. ThemFromSpace 18:25, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
@Dismas: - just to note that I removed them on the basis of the consensus of WP:EL (& WP:NOT), not on the (maybe at best emerging) consensus here in this thread. (the latter, as I expressed above, I feel is not even necessarey). --Dirk Beetstra T C 03:18, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

External links on article talk pages[edit]

It may be useful to put relevant external links on article talk pages, and anyone interested may care to comment at the above. Johnuniq (talk) 01:49, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Dispute on Spyro (series) external link[edit]

Hello all, the Spyro (series) page has been having a dispute for a while now about the external links. A certain user has added a link to "", which is apparently a small, freely-hosted discussion forum. I and several other users feel that having this link on the page violates the Advertising and Conflict of Interest section of the external links guidelines as well as several others (not neutral, not providing any good information relating to the subject). The user who is adding the link disagrees, stating that the number of Facebook likes on the page proves that the site has "earned" its spot in the article. I would appreciate opinions on this so we can finally settle this. Thank you in advance! Sfstormy (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

It is a forum you say, so that invalidates it as a suitable external link. Nothing 'earns' a link a place on Wikipedia. Please remove the link. --Dirk Beetstra T C 03:14, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. The page is currently protected because I and the user who was adding the link were edit warring. Should I just take it off when it becomes unprotected in a few days? The user is refusing to accept the removal of the link (so we have apparently not come to a consensus), and I don't want to do anything that would be considered edit warring again. Sfstormy (talk) 03:24, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
Just as a note, I think that the should be in the external links section as the official site - link. The three links , and are all three not the official links, the first one the forum discussed, and the other two seem to be of the merchandise, not the official websites of the subject. At least belongs on Skylanders and not on Spyro (series). See WP:ELNO regarding direct and indirect links. --Dirk Beetstra T C 11:11, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
Spyro is not a currently running series and thus has no official website. The series was replaced by Skylanders (which is why the Skylanders link was there), but I can see why it might not count since Skylanders only has a small section in the article, and it's debatable whether or not it's considered part of the series. is a dead link - it's been down for years since the series it was promoting was replaced by Skylanders. Sfstormy (talk) 12:14, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
That latter link is in the infobox .. that's why I took it (I haven't looked at the content linked to, just at the application of WP:EL). That link then should go, and maybe more. --Dirk Beetstra T C 03:19, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
Alright, thanks again for your input. Should we maybe just remove the external links section altogether for now? I can't think of any relevant links to add in place of those. Sfstormy (talk) 03:31, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
There is the mobygames-link (though I have no clue about that one, I see it around more - I think it is deemed informative and adding to the knowledge of the subject). --Dirk Beetstra T C 03:38, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
For me that link is saying the game group no longer exists. I'll check out some other video game series articles and see what kind of links they have. Sfstormy (talk) 03:53, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
I think it makes the most sense to remove all of these from the External Links section. Most non-official websites simply fall on the wrong side of WP:ELNO. Regarding the official website, I don't think it should be removed if the only problem is that it is now defunct. Archived versions of most websites are available via the Wayback Machine at, and a link to an archived version (e.g. this) could easily be supplied. But I would disagree with the removal of an official URL even if an archived version was unavailable. That kind of information can be extremely helpful to researchers. -Thibbs (talk) 11:45, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Since there's already been some trouble with edit warring, I suggest getting someone else to remove the link. Dirk can help with WP:BLACKLISTing the link sitewide, if that becomes necessary (I really doubt that it will).
The general rule for disputed links is at WP:ELBURDEN: in case of dispute, the link gets removed. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:09, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
There has actually been ongoing dispute over the link being re-inserted in multiple articles by multiple IPs and one named account, as well as an offsite forum discussion that appeared to be driving meatpuppetry. Given the persistent abuse, I've added the link to the en blacklist a couple days ago. --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 20:00, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Interwiki link[edit]

How to create a link from Y-DNA haplogroups in Central and North Asian populations to Haplogruppen (Y-DNA) in zentral- und nordasiatischen Populationen? --Su4kin (talk) 16:15, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

A question like this should probably be at WP:HELPDESK (it's not related to external links) however let's talk about it. First, you must have scripting enabled. Then you can see a "languages" box in the left sidebar. It's empty. Click "Add links". However, it's not easy to sum up what happens next, although it's fairly simple. Do you want to try, or do you want me to do it? Johnuniq (talk) 02:30, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Would be nice if you could do it for me.. ..since I failed already ^^ --Su4kin (talk) 11:07, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Scripting has to be enabled probably for all of: + + After clicking "Add links" in the empty Languages box, a prompt asked for the Language and Page. I was going to type "dewiki" into Language because I knew that's what it wanted, but by the time I typed "de" it prompted "dewiki". Then I pasted the title from the dewiki page, and that was it. To finish the job, someone should click "Edit links" in the Languages box and enter the description, but I should be doing something else... Johnuniq (talk) 01:58, 7 July 2014 (UTC)