Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests/Archive 98

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Help Cleaning Up an Article Please?

Resolved: Page userfied. Kudpung (talk) 05:18, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

InSegment (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)


I am looking to enlist the help of a knowledgeable editor that can help me out with a Wiki article I have recently created.

The article I created was first marked for speedy deletion; I delayed the request using the "hang on" function. After leaving comments on the article's talk page, it came back that the neutrality of the article was being challenged, and it may need to be cleaned-up.

I am not sure what the next step is. At this point, will the article be "cleaned up" by an editor? Or, am I responsible for cleaning up the article before it gets deleted?

I created this article with Wiki policy/guidelines in mind, and I tried to create the article to read as neutral as possible. I am open to changes that make the article more in accordance with Wiki guidelines and would love help from others, but I am not sure who is responsible for making these changes. It would be great if I could receive some feedback from a more experienced Wikipedian!

Please let me know what I need to do to ensure that the article gets cleaned-up rather than deleted entirely.



Jordan.Gilbert (talk) 20:17, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

A friendly editor may come along and help out now that you have asked here, but it is not guaranteed, so your are better off cleaning it up yourself. You should read WP:COI because a quick Google search indicates that you have a conflict. Also take a look at WP:BFAQ, WP:CORP, WP:SPAM and WP:RS. – ukexpat (talk) 20:21, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Welcome to Wikipedia, where you are the editor! :) In all seriousness, I've had a look at the article you wrote, which has been deleted at this point. I can see that you've put a lot of effort into making it a decent Wikipedia article. However, I don't think the company meets our notability guidelines. "Notable" is Wikipedia shorthand for things that have been the subject of significant published attention in reliable sources (magazines, newspapers, books and that sort of thing, generally). It's really hard to write an article about a company that's both verifiable (everything in it has been published before) and neutral if there isn't much written about it. If you have sources like this, I'd suggest that you create a draft article in your userspace and ask for comments at requests for feedback before moving it to the main site. It's very probable that there aren't such sources; if they don't exist, it's a waste of everyone's time to try to make an article. Of course, depending on your interests, there's a lot of things to do here otherwise. We have a bunch articles on Internet marketing (check the sidebar on that page for more) that could use some attention if you'd like to edit in a field related to your work. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them here, on my talk page, or at the help desk. --Danger (talk) 21:51, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
I have edited this article and posted it as a user draft, taking Gimme Danger and OrangeMike's (the deleting editor's) comments into consideration. Would any seasoned Wiki editor mind taking a look? The article is located at Insegment.
p.s. sorry if I wasn't supposed to change the marking from "answered" to "unresolved." I'm not 100% clear on the proper ways to communicate with the community here on Wiki.
Comments added on draft talk page. Danger (talk) 02:45, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Review New Article / Format Help

Answered: Kudpung (talk) 05:22, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello, I am not good at computers, and I am having difficulty formatting the article that I have created. Please assist. the name of the article is: Matt Urmy. thank you,

BK Monroe The Red Light Library — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheRedLightLibrary (talkcontribs) 05:18, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, notes have been left on you talk page, both about the article which has been deleted and also about COI, please note that accounts should not be shared amongst people. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:49, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Congregation Beth Shalom Rodfe Zedek

Resolved: Kudpung (talk) 05:30, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

The link to the Steven Lloyd on the Congregation Beth Shalom Rodfe Zedek page is the wrong Stephen Lloyd. The correct Stephen Lloyd is an architect practicing in Brattleboro, VT and Chester, CT. He presently does not have a website so the link should be removed. Thank you. Signed, Stephen Lloyd —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:41, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing this out. I have edited the article for you. Feel free to be bold and correct errors yourself in future. -- John of Reading (talk) 20:51, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Formatting citations

Resolved: Kudpung (talk) 05:33, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

I've never posted here before so this might not be the right place to do this, but I seem to be having trouble formatting references in Mechanics' Union of Trade Associations. I formatted the first two references correctly, but when I tried to use the second reference twice (by using <ref name=Mechanics' Union: A history></ref> the second time) it didn't work and gave me some red error. I checked the Help page it directed me too, but I still couldn't figure it out even after trying to correct it numerous times. If anyone could take a look at the page and see what the problem is, that would be greatly appreciated. --Ashershow1talkcontribs 20:26, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done You didn't use " marks in one of the ref names. I simplified the ref name too. Rehevkor 20:31, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you!!! --Ashershow1talkcontribs 23:15, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Steps to take with a non-responsive editor

Answered: Kudpung (talk) 05:48, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

I mostly edit MMA related articles as a part of WP:MMA and we are having a problem with an editor that makes multiple disruptive edits. S/he has never posted an edit summary or anything on a talk page and I'm wondering what the proper course of action (and timeline) would be at this point. I've looked through WP:dispute resolution but most of the solutions require some kind of dialog. Thanks! ZephyrFox (talk) 03:29, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Without knowing who the editor is or some links to the offending edits, there is little we can do here. Try addressing the problem on the talk page(s) of the affected article(s) and inviting the editor to take part in the discussion. There are also template requests and/or warnings that you can place on an editor's talk page, including reminders for edit summaries. Use with discretion - friendly personal messages are often better. --Kudpung (talk) 08:08, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Further research reveals this report. When warning users, it helps to use the incremental warnings at reasonable periods within the same month, to enable the editor to read and react. A final Level 4 warning will generally alert the administrators. --Kudpung (talk) 08:21, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Answered: Kudpung (talk) 05:47, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

The links to ALL arcades on this page are "dead" EXCEPT for the link for "Video Paradise" in the 1983 list of arcades. You might want to delete the dead links. Again, the link for "Video Paradise" is valid and goes to a web site. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 01:43, March 8, 2011

We typically don't delete dead links.   ArcAngel   (talk) ) 06:55, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

I need help

Answered: Kudpung (talk) 05:50, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi. It appears that I am getting banned from contributing to admin areas, see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Topic bans for Porchcrop. See my recent talk page discussions and they say that I lack in understanding the policies and guidelines. I need help in knowing what I need to improve. Is any of you willing to help me? Thank you so much for your help. -Porchcrop (talk|contributions) 07:17, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Porchcrop. I've had a glance at your edits and the comments that have been made at ANI and the editor review. Lack of understanding is something that is fixable - but it's not something that you will be able to sort overnight. Whilst becoming an administrator is a possibility some time in the future, I think it is unlikely with your past record and it's something I think you should forget about. With that in mind, I do see a lot of enthusiasm, and would be willing to mentor you. If you'd be willing, I'd suggest you run through my adoption school, focus on changing your pie chart to be more red. I believe you could be a great editor. WormTT 09:42, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Good advice Worm. --Kudpung (talk) 15:16, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Toque snuff ltd keeps getting deleted?

Resolved: Editor blocked. (COI/spam) Kudpung (talk) 05:53, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I have just had to put our snuff company back on the list of UK snuff companies under the heading 'snuff' someone keeps deleting Toque snuff from the list. Is there anything we can do to stop this malicious act?

Hasn't Toque snuff the same right to be listed as all the other UK snuff companies?


Roderick Lawrie — Preceding unsigned comment added by Toquesnuff (talkcontribs) 17:46, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

User now blocked as a spam user name.. the block and COI notice should suffice to explain for the most part. Notability might be well worth a read also. No one has much of a "right" to anything they want on Wikipedia. Rehevkor 18:02, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Having said that, I don't see why any of the Snuff manufacturers on the Snuff article are notable. Will raise at the talk page. WormTT 18:05, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
I was bold and made some edits, and replied on the talk page. – ukexpat (talk) 18:35, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Android article Android_(operating_system) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)


The user User:Markpb91 is adding content to the Android article that is npov, while removing any positive references in the sections he edits. I accidentally pressed 'Save Page' instead of 'Show Preview' and cleared out the section, and got a warning about an edit war, so I'm not going to edit the page until I'm sure I won't get blocked, but when he adds negative statements and I revert them, he immediately adds them back, and I'm unable to get any response from the talk page. He adds (and re-adds when I remove them to create a npov section) words to avoid such as 'unfortunately' and 'called the fragment of all things' etc., and the entirety of the Usage Share section (which he renamed Fragmentation without reason) is nothing but pro-Apple and anti-Android quotes, while he removed a quote from a developer saying that the fragmentation problem wasn't as big of a problem. From his edits of the Mac OS X article, it's clear (in my opinion) that he has a pro-Apple and anti-Android slant, and it's being reflected in his edits. My attempts to achieve a npov are being reverted by him and now I'm unable to edit the page for fear of being blocked, and I'm unsure of what to do. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you. - SudoGhost (talk) 05:09, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

You were completely in the right... Markpb91 has been warned with a level 4 warning, as I have an extremely low tolerance for single purpose accounts that are doing nothing but trying to promote their personal views on this site. If you have any other questions let me know. Coffee // have a cup // essay // 05:41, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Spy Game lead material

Answered: Danger (talk) 17:53, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Spy Game (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

An editor added the following paragraph to the lead of this article:

Spy Game is a true to life composite of many real intelligence operations. Spy Game is more real than fiction and is based on the life of intelligence operative Tom Golden, the son of an Arkansas dirt farmer. Golden was an army intelligence officer assigned to the Central Intelligence Agency Phoenix Program during the Vietnam War. Nathan Muir was Golden’s CIA code name in Southeast Asia, and during his intelligence operations in Indochina. Golden served a distinguished career in the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), The Pentagon, and the CIA. He served in Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, Western Europe, and Central and South America. Tony Scott does a great job of presenting the true to life dangers faced by Intelligence Agents in the field and the bureaucratic decisions sometimes made in Washington that are driven by politics.

These are the two citations that follow the material: "[Secret Warriors, Putnam Press 1988 by Steven Emerson]" and "[PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER, 12/16/1990; KNIGHT RIDDER, 12/18/1990]". The film came out in 2001.

I reverted the editor. Another editor added it back in. I reverted the second editor twice more. After my third reversion, yet another editor (this time an IP) reverted me. On my third reversion, I posted information about all this on the article's Talk page. No one has responded, and the material remains.

The first editor has been registered since March 2010 but has made only a handful of edits, most of them to Spy Game. The second editor has been registered only since February 28, 2011, and has edited only this article. The IP made only the one edit, the reversion. I'm suspicious of the editors themselves, but, more important (to me) is the quality of the lead, which is still compromised.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:34, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

As the sources are published before the file was released there's simply no way to connect it to the film in such a way, it's original research if anything. I have reverted the text and explained why (my only revert) and will try to contribute to the talk page. If none of the other editors contribute to it the only option is really page protection. And if the accounts are linked the only way to verify would be via an SPI. Rehevkor 16:35, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, Matthew, hopefully the reversion will stick.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
It didn't stick. Yet another IP reverted. Because it's been long enough since I last reverted, I reverted the IP. I'm not real knowledgeable about sockpuppets and how they're investigated, but I decided to create an SPI and let others who are more experienced look into the issue.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:31, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
"Undid revision x by Rehevkor", oh, how much I hate those little words. An SPI is probably the best avenue at this point. It's unlikely the accounts/IPs are unrelated. Rehevkor 21:40, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
The SPI confirmed that Jackmartin40 is a sockpuppet of Leorojasxx. Jackmartin40 has been blocked indefinitely, and Leorojasxx has been blocked for a week. As for the IPs, the investigator said: "No comment on the IPs. Ready to close/archive." Not quite sure exactly what that means with respect to the IPs - was an investigation done?--Bbb23 (talk) 23:12, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
Checkuser won't link an IP address to an account. (As a matter of policy, not as a technical inadequacy). If the problem with the IP addresses persists, you might want to request semi-protection for the article at WP:RFPP. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:33, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the response. What then is the purpose of identifying the IP addresses in the SPI?--Bbb23 (talk) 00:51, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
IP accounts may be identified as sockpuppets based on behavioral evidence. (Per WP:DUCK.) --Danger (talk) 17:53, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. Such colorful descriptors - ducks and sockpuppets - feels like a fantasy world. The IPs, btw, came back, and I followed Demiurge's suggestion and requested protection for the article. It's now semi-protected to March 25.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:59, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Help with Constant Motion (redirect) and Constant Motion (song) (article)

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:18, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello, I am here to request some help with more experienced editors who could help me here. I'm currently expanding the article Systematic Chaos, a studio album from Dream Theater, and relative articles. The problem, it's one of the songs, which is Constant Motion, but this is a redirect to the precedent album, and there is an article which is Constant Motion (song), which really doesn't need a disambiguation. I'm just trying to keep the article but with the title without disambiguation.

Thanks for your time. --Sirius 128 (talk) 00:49, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

That's a bit of a mess. Constant Motion (song) is currently under discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/In the Presence of Enemies where it's suggested that it doesn't meet the notability criteria at WP:NSONG. I think it might be best to wait for the outcome of that before deciding how to arrange any other pages. You seem to have moved Constant Motion to Constant Motion (song) 1, which isn't a page name that would typically exist here. I think it might be best to undo that move; if the song article at AfD survives then it should be at the undisambiguated title as you suggest, and otherwise the old redirect can be reinstated. --AndrewHowse (talk) 14:21, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
I've requested that the page move be undone; this'll preserve the old history. --AndrewHowse (talk) 17:23, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Vinnie Vincent

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:19, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Vinnie Vincent (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

I noticed that the section "The Vinnie Vincent Model Guitar" had some bad grammar, words in all-caps, etc, so I cleaned it up. In the process, I noticed that the entire section was unsourced and unverifiable. I removed most of it but left a few sentences. The page's original author, DAworDisDAword101 is apparently watching the page and continuously reverts the changes. I tried to be polite in encouraging him to discuss the reverts on the article's talk page, but he doesn't participate in the discussion. I added the "article ownership" warning to his talk page and tried to be polite there, as well. I've re-done the edit to the article a second time, but won't do it again, because I have no interest in an edit war. In any case, the majority of the entire article (not just the section I edited) appears to be original research. LesPaul75talk 18:16, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

  • Correction - I didn't mean to say "page's original author"... I believe he might be the original author of that particular section. LesPaul75talk 18:27, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
I have placed a warning on the editor's talk page and am keeping the article on my watchlist. Jezhotwells (talk) 13:19, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Unrelevant articles

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:19, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

The article G.j. Alexandrie is in several languages (not english) but isn't relevant or accurate at all. Can someone check it out and maybe delete it? Thank you -- (talk) 17:55, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Each Wikipedia has its own procedures and processes; you will have to address this at the Wikipedias in question, not here in the English-language Wikipedia. --Orange Mike | Talk 17:58, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Correcting abusive entry

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:20, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

The current wikipedia entry on gang stalking has been illegitimised and locked so as to prevent redaction.

Harassment of this nature has been verified in recent court cases including that of James Walbert, who was recently recognised by u.s. courts as having five subcutaneous implants above the neck. Within the last week, a presidential bio-ethics committee was appointed to issue a report to President Obama on gang stalking by the end of this year. These facts are verifiable (see below).

The current "article" on gang stalking illegitimises it by using quotes around the term, and by using vague and insinuating language relegating reports as "examples of belief systems" instead of anything pertinent to objective reality.

The article I proposed for gang stalking uses neutral language that does not intend to assert or deny the authenticity of these reports, unlike the preexistent content which intends for the term to be pertinent to imagined phenomenon only.

This is my submitted article. More information follows below.

Deleted page assistance (copy of message to RHaworth)

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:21, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I am contacting you in hopes that you can further explain and advise on a recently deleted page that I posted, titled "Myles L. Berman" on 3/6/11 by RHaworth.

In creating the article, I tried to avoid solicitation designed to promote Mr. Berman or his law firm. Rather, I attempted to demonstrate the notability and achievements in his expertise through biographical information and works of accomplishments. Utilizing the model article of a fellow attorney (which can currently be viewed on Wikipedia), I devised the content with reliable sources of information provided for verification.

It appears that as a new page, the patrol division deleted it due to "unambiguous advertising or promotion." Can you please offer any guidance on this reasoning and the following questions? 1. How come some articles on an individual or company are considered "masquerading articles" and deleted, while others are not and left posted? 2. What constitutes notability and the legitimacy of an individual or commercial entity? 3. Is there any way to recreate a page for either Mr. Berman or his firm without it being considered advertising or promotion?

I am passionately working on social media for our company and was suggested at a recent conference to take part in Wikipedia, as it is such a large media reference globally. If there is any information or advice you could offer in regards to posting a successful, acceptable article, I would greatly appreciate it.

Myleslberman (talk) 22:23, 9 March 2011 (UTC)Evelyn Hirshberg, Office Manager, Law Offices of Myles L. Berman

The best advice I can give you is that you should work your way down the FAQ page for Organizations. This will lead you through the Wikipedia policies on advertising, conflict of interest, and how Wikipedia pages are written about businesses. You will find it very difficult to create a Wikipedia page on behalf of your company.
More bad news: since your chosen user name matches your company name, it fails the user name policy and is likely to be blocked. -- John of Reading (talk) 22:42, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Shmuley Boteach

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:21, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Shmuley Boteach repeated vandalism through the years - its been approved as is by multiple users and I'd like to request a block/lock and dont know how to do so. Please advise and assist ? Jonathangluck (talk) 23:06, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

I'll watch that page to see what happens next, and act if necessary. I have the necessary admin tools to do a block or a protect, if that's what's needed.
In other news: are you the same person as User:Jonathanglick13? I would advise that you stick to one account for editing. --Deryck C. 23:10, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Bio on Richard Poirier

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:22, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I revised the page on Richard Poirier that contained an inaccurate statement that Richard Poirier..."he was Marius Bewley". However, on 7 March 2011, a Mr. Charles Matthews "Moorlock" revised my change to reflect his previous script as of 21 Feb 2011. That version is not accurate. How do we resolve this issue. I want to correct this factual error and also post a new accurate bio on Marius Eugene Bewley that will provide a more comprehensive, accurate description of him and his achievements. Thank you for your assistance.

Sincerely, Bruce Johnson —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:06, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Your edit to the article in question, [1] added the text "NOT MARIUS EUGENE BEWLEY.", at first glance this would not appear to be productive, and was reverted. Your best bet to address this would be to go to the article talk page Talk:Richard Poirier and explain your edit(s). Remember if you want to update this article, you should provide reliable sources to verify your editions. Cheers. Rehevkor 00:15, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
I've notified Charles Matthews, who reverted your edit (and also inserted in the first place what you said was wrong) to participate in this discussion. --Deryck C. 00:20, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

On second read at the disputed article, I think I've come to the following conclusions:

  1. There was no confusion in the original article. The original version said "He was Marius Bewley Professor of American and English Literature emeritus", which meant "He held a position named after Marius Bewley", not "He is Marius Bewley". The objection that Bruce Johnson ( raised is, therefore, invalid.
  2. The rest of the article seems to be accurate, according to this this post , and this external link from the article. However, inline citations will be helpful, to help prevent future disputes. --Deryck C. 00:30, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Yes, the edit summary statement "mistakenly stated Richard Poirier and Marius Eugene Bewley were the same individuals" seemed to be a simple misconception. Stating that someone is the John Doe Professor is not stating they are John Doe at all: it is just common usage in academia. Obviously the form of words can be avoided by circumlocution, but I didn't see that it had to be. The comment would have been better placed on Talk:Richard Poirier. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:21, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
I'm not sure the grammatical change clarifies the respective positions each individual held. My understanding is that Marius was a professor in the Department of English. Richard was the department chairman and a colleague of Marius. When you say Richard "held" Marius position I think it's a confusing statement. When Marius died his position (by his name) evaporated. Richard may have still been a professor in the English Department and, perhaps, still chairman; but, I don't believe he served in a "position" that retained Maris Bewley's name. Rutgers did establish the Marius Bewley Fund to recognize outstanding student coursework as an honorarium. The language should be simple and clear to avoid confusion. BTW, since there are websites such as Feebase and others that have posted excerpts from Wikipedia, how does one correct or clarify all these inaccurate statements?
In order to provide some clarity to this situation, I will prepare a bio on Marius and post it. That way there will be some more definite information on Marius...if and when someone posts a search for his name.
Bruce —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 03:54, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
It's apparently a named professorship, of the kind common to all serious universities in the English-speaking world. Are you saying there is no such professorship for Richard Poirier to hold? --Orange Mike | Talk 04:05, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
I'm familiar with the argument that if one person is ever confused by something, then it is "confusing". But I don't accept it. I mean, here it is in the New York Times of 1979: "Richard Poirier is the Marius Bewley Professor of English at Rutgers". The complaint seems querulous. Charles Matthews (talk) 15:30, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
I agree that the compound academic title "Marius Bewley Professor of English" is fundamentally confusing. However, since it's a proper noun there is little we can do to solve the problem. The current version of the text has already made it unambiguous to anyone who has seen examples of named professorships. In reply to Bruce: Richard Poirier owned something (in this case a professorship) that is named after Marius Bewley, not something that used to belong to Marius Bewley. --Deryck C. 17:36, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be clearer to use the "is the Marius Bewley Professor of English" form of words (my emphasis to illustrate my change)? – ukexpat (talk) 19:39, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
Good idea. Done it. --Deryck C. 16:25, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Nestle Chunky Candy Bars

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:22, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I am curious as to whether the Nestle Chunky Candy Bars come in minatures? Who could I contact to request this? doesn't really comment on Chunky Bars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 03:30, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 4 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck.--Orange Mike | Talk 03:33, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Christianity and homosexuality

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:23, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Christianity and homosexuality (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

There is a question of neutrality in the Christianity and homosexuality article. I feel there may be a conflict of interest on the part editors involved in the article. This being such a contentious issue I feel it begs the assistance of a neutral third party to both resolve the neutrality dispute and if the consensus is that this article lacks a NPOV perhaps a neutral third party to help guide this article to Wikipedia standards. Thank You. Serialjoepsycho (talk) 07:54, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

That's not how conflict of interest works. You are going after Carey for being a gay Christian, no? Roscelese (talkcontribs) 15:29, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Actually I was unaware of Carey's sexuality. I also see no relevance to Carey's sexuality. If there is please point it out. The conflict of Interest is the inability of editors of that article to separate themselves from their own views while writing the article. There is a partiality given to the Pro-homosexual side. I see no relevance to Carey's sexuality. The conflict of Interest relates to his and from what I can perceive others religious beliefs and his academic beliefs. He and others have to close a relationship to the subject. That is covered under conflict of interest. "Any situation in which strong relationships can develop may trigger a conflict of interest. Conflict of interest can be personal, religious, political, academic, financial, and legal. It is not determined by area, but is created by relationships that involve a high level of personal commitment to, involvement with, or dependence upon a person, subject, idea, tradition, or organization." Serialjoepsycho (talk) 18:57, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
Your contribution here and on the article's Talk page speak in generalities. It would be helpful if you could be more specific as to what assertions in the article are non-neutral. Simply saying it's "such a contentious issue" preempts the usual discussion of the supposed problem.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:37, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
My apologies Bbb23. Since most of the issues were highlighted on the talk page I didn't want to fill this with large quantities of text. From what I can gather:
  • The article lacks impartiality in so far as the pro side Lists many prominent individuals to highlight their views while there are very few individuals to highlight the views of the con side.
  • The article is unbalanced with most detail going to to the pro-side while it seems that their are reputable source contradicting each other and both sides seem to be of relatively equal prominence.
  • Referring to the first point it seems that the best and most reputable authoritative sources are used for the pro-side while the same can't be said for the con-side
  • one complaint holds that the part of the article labeled, "Views critical of homosexual behavior" contain favorable and make it seem like an argument while the part of the article Labeled, "Views favorable to homosexuality" Solely contains favorable views. Which leads to the question does this consist of an impartial tone?
  • The section, "Homosexuality in the Bible" doesn't have an impartial tone. By using seem it's seems to take a stance and there is the question of what purpose that serves since it may only represent the pro-side. There is also the question if that all is original research.
  • The section titled, "The Church and homosexuality" Contains a sentence on con-views while it contains a paragraph on pro-views. The title of the section suggests something other than what it is. The entire religion of Christianity can and has been labeled the church but the article doesn't refer to the religion. Instead it refers to a limited number of specific churches and/or Congregations.
There is a long debate about this on the talk page about neutrality with the argument that the article is neutral limited to the personal opinion of one individual's dislike and bad opinion of specific individuals. The other argument being that if anyone thinks the article isn't neutral they should fix it themselves and that they feel the article is neutral to Wikipedia:Neutral point of view standards. This of course is my assessment of the views of the Individuals who feel the article is neutral. The other individual who feels this article is not neutral feels that individual editors have the responsibility to maintain neutrality. I agree.I feel that each of these individuals has a conflict of interest as highlighted above. I myself feel I have a conflict of interest due to my religious views and as such don't feel I would be able to represent any Christian views neutrally. I have brought this here in hopes that someone can address the issue of neutrality and help to resolve it. I apologize again that my first message lacked detail. I was following the rules of this Project page as I understand them.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 20:42, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
I'm confused, but let's see if I have the situation straight (no pun intended). Serial, you posted a single message on the article talk page stating that you thought that it was not neutral, without any specific reasons as why or offering any suggestions on how to improve the situation. You have never edited this article and it isn't protected in a way that would prevent you from editing it. Thirty minutes later, no one has responded to the message you left on the talk page and you post here, accusing the currently active editors of the article of a conflict of interest, without either asking them about it first or giving any reasons why you have come to this conclusion beyond your previous statement of a "question of neutrality". Is that a fair assessment? Danger (talk) 19:50, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
To address your question Danger I had read through the discussion. I saw the suggestion that the article be added up for deletion. The argument was going no where and I felt that I wouldn't be the best individual for a religious debate especially one relating to Christianity. I did agree with the lack of neutrality but felt that I had as much a conflict of interest as anyone else. I felt that everyone their had a conflict of interest.. I felt this article could be important to a number of individuals so settling the dispute seemed more important than anyone moving to delete it. I don't think it would be hard for this article to be moved into compliance and feel that the individuals who maintain the article would have a problem keeping it in compliance. I do apologies for not listing the conflict of interest in the first place but I mistakenly assumed it was obvious in the discussion on that page and wasn't aware that I would be called a homophobic for questioning the neutrality of the page.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 20:57, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
Without addressing all of your points, I have some suggestions:
  • Just because you're religious doesn't mean you can't be neutral. All of us have our own personal views on the world, but that doesn't mean we can't comply with Wikipedia neutrality. If you feel so strongly that you can't be neutral, then I'm not sure how you can reasonably raise the issue of non-neutrality in the first place.
  • The is no "pro" or "con" side.
  • Take up each of your issues separately on the Talk page of the article. For example, if you question the Bible section, address that. Do them one by one; otherwise you'll bog down in a jumble of different things. Avoid accusations of conflicts. Just focus on the material, the sources supporting the material, the wording, etc. Stick to facts, not to what you believe to be the personal views of the editors.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:26, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
  • I'm not suggesting that just because they are religious they can't be neutral. They can be neutral but they choose not to. They choose not to separate their views on religion from their duties as an editor. I admit that my views on certain editors may be based on the article it self but my specific views on the editors in the discussion at the bottom of the talk page are based off that discussion after reading through every inch of it. It could simply be the work of one or two individuals. I don't feel it was done in bad faith but I do feel they fail to recognize the implications.
  • "pro/con" "for/against" "positive/negative" "favorable/critical" take your pick.
  • I have no problem weighing the neutrality. I would just have a problem giving an article on this religion it's proper respect. I would personally just remove a bunch of information to balance it out. That would simply remove the hard work put into the favorable side and unintentionally favor the critical side. I have no problem with homosexuality. I just fear my disdain for this particular religion may favor the critical side of the debate. I do feel in the end it would be neutral but I do feel it would waste quite abit of another individuals time and effort.
  • I feel another individual would be able to better resolve this issue than I and not end up locked up in an edit war. There would be no unintended or at least undesired consequences.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 22:13, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
I have nothing more to say. You should edit the article as you see fit, and you should discuss the article on the Talk page as you see fit.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:59, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
I only skimmed through the original talk discussion so forgive me if I'm repeating what has already been said. Editors who advertises themselves as having a vested interest in topics they actively edit are not violating WP:COI. In fact, many users exclusively edit articles on topics they feel passionately about. The editor who posted this request should include some diffs demonstrating a non-neutral pattern of editing at Christianity and homosexuality. Editors should always of course assume good faith. One can be a gay Christian and still be capable of including reliable sources in their contributions. To argue against that would probably amount to bigotry IMO. Wikifan12345 (talk) 07:44, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

It is no doubt that people can have vested interest in a subject and edit an article on it but people can also be to passionate about an issue which in an article like this can lead them to neglect a part of an article that does not correlate to their passion. When your vested interest in an article causes you to neglect policies like wp:npov there is an obvious issue of wp:coi. The argument on the talk page by Carey for neutrality is based on bias towards particular individuals critical to homosexuality and original research that has lead him to conclusions that particular individuals views are not worthy of inclusion in the article. The suggestion above by Roscelese that I have brought this issue to this page due to Carey's sexuality leads me to question their ability to neutrally edit that article as Roscelese is also an editor of that article. I have said nothing negative of homosexuality here or in my 2 comments on the discussion of the talk page so any discussion of bigotry on my part seems highly questionable since it implies bad faith on my part with no inherent basis behind that bad faith. This issue does not differ from any other article about 2 or more prominent conflicting views as it pertains to Wikipedia. This article as with any other article requires neutrality. In an attempt to not join in the unbalanced and highly biased debate that is playing out on that page and an attempt to not start or be a part of an edit war I have brought this issue here. I have brought it here in hopes that a neutral body more acquainted with this religion might address the question of neutrality.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 15:17, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

My editing of the article has been minimal, actually. I have it on my watchlist, though, so I get all the talkpage conversations. I'm sorry you took my point about COI badly (and your comment shows you still don't understand it), but dude, that's what happens when you go "the page isn't biased enough against homosexuality! there must be a conflict of interest involved!"
More to the point, I'm not sure why this requires a request post as opposed to just editing the article. This applies both to you and to the IP - you go on and on about how it isn't neutral, but you can't be bothered to edit it yourself. It's not going to be possible to find a Perfectly Neutral Editor - because some editors are Christian, and some are non-Christian, and some are queer, and some are straight! Roscelese (talkcontribs) 17:10, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

I never said,"the page isn't biased enough against homosexuality! there must be a conflict of interest involved!" I have tried to impress the point that there has been failure on the part of editors particularly Carey to address the issue of neutrality. The conflict of interest on his part is his inability to septate his religious and academic beliefs from his job as an editor. The views of Christians critical of homosexually many may call biased but that's a topic for a forum. The conversation at hand is about neutrality and the particular favorability of the views of Christians favorable to homosexuality. I am not nor do I feel that the IP was suggesting that anyone make the page more biased to homosexuality. I and I feel the IP was suggesting that editors of the article should equal validity to both sides represented in the article. Though initially the IP was suggesting that the side critical of homosexuality be given more prominent and deserved more weight that the favorable side. Making this an issue of bigotry seems more like a straw man tactic to me than anything else. I would gladly edit it but as highlighted in the "Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/FAQ" Deleting information isn't the best way to edit when there's a reasonable chance of becoming neutral eventually.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 19:17, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Jean-François Berdah

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:24, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Jean-François Berdah (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)


A comment has been added to the page I createdlast year that says : "This biographical article needs additional citations for verification. Please help by adding reliable sources. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous or harmful". I haven't been able first to answer it due to a major research project, but secondly to understand properly what it's all about and how to "get rid" of the banner. There is no "contentious material" nor "libelous or harmful" content, but perhaps yes not enough sourced references. Since the page has been included in WikiProject Biography and WikiProject France I suppose that its interest is not unrelevant and maybe interesting. I would be very thankful to receive the advice of a good specialist of living biographies and academic profiles, someone who could help me to improve it and adapt more closely to Wiki standards. Many thanks in advance. Vanechka79 (talk) 21:21, 10 March 2011 (UTC) 10th March, 2011, 22:20 (CET)

I will have a search for some sources and post them on the talk page. I don't speak French nor am I familiar with the subject so I will leave it to others to judge if they're useful or reliable. Rehevkor 21:28, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:25, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

User:Fleetham has been around for a while, but I only encountered him when he started work on articles relating to the Chinese auto industry in 2010. I have been spending about a third of my time since, trying to repair his often disruptive and confusing edits. I have engaged in countless talkpage conversations on his, mine, and article talkpages, but absolutely nothing has any impact. The problematic articles are manifold, but the biggest dispute is at Share taxi. I expanded lengthily on my problems below, but a visit to Share taxi and some digging around should make the problems fairly obvious. WP:OWN, over-referencing, chopping articles into countless subsections, and a refusal to engage in any useful conversation with other editors are the main problems I've encountered.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 21:37, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

(I typed the long below harangue before realizing that this should be kept short - I figured I'll leave it in but don't read it if you don't feel like it)

Long List of Issues

The problems are manifold, but since Fleetham's targeted articles are rarely of interest to very many people his oft disruptive edits are rarely noted. Here is an example of one of his versions of a sentence:

In Turkey[15] and Turkish controlled, Northern Cyprus[16] dolmuş (pronounced "dolmush"[17]) are share taxis that run on set routes within[17][18] and between cities.[17]

Over referencing, many times quoting one source several times in a single sentence for entirely innocuous statements. He also treats the articles as his own personal sandbox, while reverting any edits done by any other user. Other bizarre edits such as this one abound. Here's another favorite - the result reads "Incorporated in September[5] 1953[5][6]". When asked why there are so many references he answered:

"Okay, I will reduce the number of refs as a "final step" once I finish my major editing. Some of the refs are really low quality, such as blogs or just totally random travel sites like "". So I do want to add many refs, and then later I will remove the lesser-quality ones." - clear ownership issues. His references almost always consist of nothing more than a URL between ref brackets, and when asked to provide proper referencing he says it would be "inconvenient".

Another method of his is chopping articles into hundreds of subsection, many often containing a single sentence. Check out Skyworth for an example of his style.

Not all of his edits are useless, but he often edits without thinking. As an example, a few days ago he began deleting pictures with CC-SA 2.0 licenses across dozens of articles. I brought this up with him and asked him to replace the pictures, but he refused and kept arguing that the license was no good. See my my talk page for an ongoing and very frustrating effort to change things (it continues into the next section). He still hasn't replaced a single photo, although he has stopped reversing my replacing them. As a further example, I like the following quote by the user himself: "I can understand why people didn't want to read a page of superscripts but all these facts need citations because I tend to add stuff that isn't true. Each fact carries a burden of truth and if that must be a superscript than so be it." (superscript mine)

Lately I have been getting tired of these fruitless discussions with Fleetham and have attempted to turn "his" articles into readable prose once again. His result has been to revert everything and now considers me a "hostile bother". Another editor supported my suggestions but has been brushed off entirely.

I hope someone could look into this, as the situation is becoming very frustrating and an enormous timesuck. Most of these articles aren't even of any real interest to me, but it is upsetting to see perfectly acceptable articles become chopped into pieces. The sad thing is that he finds a great amount of often useful sources for articles, but then refuses to adapt any of the style parameters and will not listen to any suggestions that he change.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 21:37, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Sounds like this might be an issue best placed on WP:ANI. Rehevkor 21:41, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Ok, thanks. I hope that won't be in violation of the "no double posting" policy here?  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 23:42, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Is "no double posting" even a policy?
On another note, that his edits are rather broken doesn't matter. Your effort of fixing them actually meant that their efforts have had some effect. It's their reverting everyone's edit to their stuff that is the problem. --Deryck C. 00:00, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
It says on top of the edit page not to post issues here that are posted on another noticeboard. Anyhow, I agree, his refusal to write proper references is only problematic because the user also refuses to accept any further edits to "their" pages.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 00:27, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
I don't think any of us are confused, so it's fine. --Deryck C. 00:41, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
I posted over on ANI, but have so far not received any response - it will be archived before soon. The user in question has only sped up their editings, reverting and removing all edits made by others to "their" pages. I really would like for some outside voices to take a look at this situation please.  ⊂| Mr.choppers |⊃  (talk) 09:21, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

I am lost and not sure where to begin

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:26, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi All,

I have hesitated regarding participation for years because I become lost and don't know to begin.

My passions are Jazz Improvisation, Afro-Cuban Jazz and Jazz Bass Guitar. I would like to help in one of these areas.

Is there a way I can help??? Where do I begin???

Enjoy The Journey, Tom Williams AKA mystic1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mystic1 (talkcontribs) 05:23, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

I placed some links on your talk page which will give you some ideas and basic information about editing Wikipedia. You can contribute to any article which interests you, or create new ones of your own. If you have more questions as you get started, please don't hesitate to post them here, on your talk page or mine. Jonathanwallace (talk) 13:21, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
If jumping in to the bigger articles is a little scary (I know it was for me!), you could look at WikiProject Jazz, a project for user interested in jazz. There you can find to-do lists of articles that need improvement. You could also look in Category:Jazz stubs for articles that are very short and need expanding. I see that Afro-jazz is in that category. And as Jonathan said, if you need anymore help or ideas, feel free to post here or on my talk page. --Danger (talk) 15:10, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
Don't hesitate to ask me too, especially on Jazz-funk, Fusion, or Be-bop. --Kudpung (talk) 05:16, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

youngest navy seal

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:27, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I have had it ,,,i am sick to be left out .My name is Michael Clayton Kelly ,,,I am the youngest seal ..I knew Scott ...Run the math ..And check the military records before you come to a false answer .I signed up when i was 16,,,i had no a school ...i was in class 106 ..when i reported onboard at udt/21 i was still 17 ...this is simple ...did Scott report before he was 18 ? /// [Redacted some material not necessary to resolution of issue]

At Wikipedia, we have to rely on independent third party sources, not the knowledge of individuals, which we have no way to evaluate. Please let us know which article you are referencing, and if you can provide sources about yourself, editors here will change the article accordingly. Jonathanwallace (talk) 07:46, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
The OP is probably talking about the Scott Helvenston entry on the List of Navy SEALs. His article and the list says he is the youngest person to complete BUD/S training. The article has a citation attached to the fact but nothing in the citation verifies this information. I have put a {{fv}} tag in the article and a {{fact}} tag in the list. If I or anyone else can not find anything to verify the information in a week I will remove it from both places. GB fan (talk) 13:45, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
Update, I found a reliable source that verifies he was the youngest Seal, some of the information in the source disagreed with the info in the article, so I also updated the article. GB fan (talk) 14:35, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Emergence bill without seeing a Doctor

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:28, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I was billed in 2009 for $688.00 now I have a court date for Mar. 25 I'm being sued for $5,000.00 or less bills were sent to my old address for the past two years(I think that this is very unethical) —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:54, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry we cannot help you with your problem. This is a legal issue and we cannot give you legal advice. – ukexpat (talk) 19:45, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Chanel No. 5 re-edit

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:28, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Chanel No. 5 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Hello, I just completed the re-editing, actually a complete re-write and re-formating for the "Chanel No. 5" page. There was (and still is) a box posted at the top of the page, indicating that the entry needed to be re-written. How do I delete this now that it has been re-written? I'm fairly new to Wiki so I need assistance with this process/policy. Thank you in advance for your assistance. Betempte (talk) 22:59, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Much of the new material appears to have been copied from
--CliffC (talk) 23:29, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
That section of Domotica is a Wikipedia mirror, albeit in a really cool format. I saw the February date too in a Google search, but I can't find any reference of when they downloaded this material. --Danger (talk) 00:07, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
First, it seems like you've done a solid rewrite on a really important topic. (I have gone through obscene lengths to purchase this scent for my mother; it's good to know I'm going with the backing of some history and not just riding a fad.) Thank you.
Second, since you've addressed the issue that the tag is a notification of, you can go ahead and remove it yourself. The article still needs work, but doesn't everything? One thing that needs to be done is "wikification," adding internal links to the article so that readers can look for more information about things that they're likely to want to look up while reading and formatting the article so that it's easy to read. You can read about how to do this here. If you need any help or have any questions, feel free to ask them here or at my talk page. Danger (talk) 00:07, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
The "advertising" tag can be found near the top of the article when you click "Edit" and look at the source; it is generated by the word "advert" in curly brackets. I didn't delete it just now because (sorry to rain on the parade) the article still seems to me a little too much like a marketing brochure. I would recommend taking another cut at an encyclopedic tone (perhaps with fewer references to what Chanel thought and felt) before removing the tag. Jonathanwallace (talk) 00:14, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Here is an example of prose which does not seem encyclopedic to me: "This past resonated within her as she contemplated the composition of the new fragrance. Somehow she would reconcile the clean and the scrubbed with the sensuality of the garden, distill these powerful, personal, childhood associations into one evocative perfume that would truly be her signature." Hope this helps. Jonathanwallace (talk) 00:28, 12 March 2011 (UTC)


Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:29, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Voltaire (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

I saw a (citation needed) in the article on Voltaire that I've been trying to provide, but could not find the means to do it.

It's under the heading "Legacy", toward the end, in a discussion of the often cited phrase "If God didn't exist, it would be necessary to invent him". A citation is requested to prove that this was part of a retort to d'Holbach and the atheists.

Peter Gay gives this explanation in "Voltaire's Politics: The Poet as Realist", Yale University, 1988, p. 265, and provides the original line in full: "If the heavens, despoiled of his august stamp could ever cease to manifest him, if God didn't exist, it would be necessary to invent him. Let the wise proclaim him, and kings fear him."

Hope that helps, and that you'll be able to provide/correct the entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:22, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Done--and thanks so much for giving me an opportunity to edit Voltaire! Please see WP:CITE for information that will help you add references yourself next time. Jonathanwallace (talk) 00:36, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

W. Ferrell Shuck, Publisher

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:29, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

User:Comogreg/W. Ferrell Shuck, Publisher

I want to cite these two references in the W. Ferrell Shuck, Publisher article: and the Lee's Summit Journal, July 1, 1981, page 3A How? Thanks. Comogreg (talk) 14:56, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

I added a references section, but you need to out the cites at the appropriate place in the text and supply a title for one of them. I have put some useful links on your talk page. Check out WP:CITE for specific information on citing. Jezhotwells (talk) 15:07, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Need advice about a deleted page

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:30, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello -

I need some advice and assistance. The page Parents Via Egg Donation was created back in 2009 with the help of one of your Wiki editors Toons. We received some sound advice from him and appreciated. In the meantime I edited my own page which I didn't realize at the time was against the rules. I was banned. Thankfully Wiki worked with me and I learned the rules and was unbanned. We moved on and with Toons advice went on to gather more credible information about the organization. It's now 2011 and our page was tagged orphaned and thankfully I was able to find a writer who was familiar with our organization and has edited as a user on Wiki before and she added to our page. Shortly after, it was marked for speedy deletion. We followed the rules and used the ((hang on)) command to explain our position and it was deleted.

So, I am back now at square one, frustrated and not sure what to do next. Our organization is a service organization, at non-profit that helps thousands of patients yearly with infertility issues, focusing on egg donation. We are not self serving, and we are not promoting a single individual, we are attempting to become part of an encylopedia as we are an educational and support organzation.

If you can help, I would be in your debt. Thanks.

MDG 00:31, 13 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marnad1963 (talkcontribs)

The article you are referring to, Parents Via Egg Donation, appears to be alive and well, having not been deleted. There seems to have been a misguided attempt to delete it but it was rejected. History is a little weird, are other people involved in the organisation aware that they shouldn't be editing the article? Rehevkor 02:19, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
It was in fact deleted [2] at the time of the post here. It was later restored by the same editor after discussion at User talk:Martijn Hoekstra. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:32, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
(ec) Based on recent editing, the one user who looks suspicious is User:Desktop Inc, principally because he registered recently and edited only that article. I'm also struggling to see how the article would survive notability.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:37, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
I agree with the notability issue, searching on Google found nothing notable outside of the organization's website, the same was also the case looking through news and other avenues, and I couldn't find any reference to this site in any secondary sources other than the minor ones listed in the article, and even those are very old and not significant. I'm going to go ahead and put a notability tag on the article, in hopes of having someone with more knowledge of this field with the ability to find secondary sources being able to verify its notability. Feel free to edit/remove the tag as you see fit if this is not the correct context to use such a tag. Thank you - SudoGhost (talk) 03:59, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
I think the tag is conservative. I was going to nominate it for deletion, but I'll wait a bit to see if anything happens with it first.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:00, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

POV catagory

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:31, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Howdy, I noticed Category:Israeli settlers has been created recently. I don't know the rules regarding cats but it seems to be this cat gives undue weight to an assumed political view of the person by dint of association. Thoughts? Joe407 (talk) 04:39, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to copy your question to Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration/Current_Article_Issues because it's really a thicket of differing interpretations between captured, occupied, illegally occupied, etc. that needs knowledgeable response/debate. It's possible just removing the description is best thing to do. CarolMooreDC (talk) 14:08, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Quick thoughts: (1) This is a geographical/national category that seems fairly clearly bounded. If people in it turn out to be politically aligned, it will be a place where that alignment is visible, if they disagree politically, then it will be a place of political diversity. (2) since the number of territories is small, it might be better to enumerate them in the description page than use the current language, even though it appears NPOV to me.--Carwil (talk) 14:45, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't see any POV issues with the cat, it seems to be created for Israeli settlers, Israeli settlements are called Israeli settlements by the international community. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 15:32, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I see no problem with this category: living in a specific area has nothing to do with one's political views, IMHO. --ElComandanteChe (talk) 16:11, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
I see a potential problem with the application of the cat. Is it about individuals or groups or maybe both? Is Israeli settlements the parent cat or are they equal in a cat tree? I bring this up due to the cat going back and forth at Israeli settler violenceCptnono (talk) 21:39, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
I guess primary it would be for individual people who happen to be Israeli settlers. It maybe fits in other articles as well.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 00:52, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

US Senate Committee Subcommittees, inconsistant names

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:32, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Hey, I was looking at the US Senate Committee pages, and noticed that the Energy and Natural Resources subcommittees are incorrectly named "United States Senate Energy Subcommittee ..." rather than "United States Senate Energy and Natural Resources Subcommittee ..." Upon further looking I noticed that there is a similar situation with regards to the subcommittees for the "Commerce, Science and Transportation", with them being shortened "United States Senate Commerce Subcommittee on ..." Contrastly, for some of the "Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs" Subcommittee pages, they are named "United States Senate Homeland Security Ad Hoc Subcommittee on ..." whereas others use the above system of shortening them.

So my questions are 1) Should there be some consistancy here? 2) Which method should be used? Using Ad Hoc, not, or using the full title? 3)If it should be changed, I can do it myself, but am unsure how to (if I can) change the title of the pages, so how would I do that?

Although this may be more fitting for a discussion page, it involves multiple pages and may involve changing the name of a page which I'm unsure how to do, or if I even can.

Sincerely, Ezuvian — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ezuvian (talkcontribs) 13:31, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

They should be accurate to the current title, best found from current congressional committee website information. Former titles often are good to mention too in the lead, especially if well known, since they may appear in historical descriptions of the article and/or their references. [(Ie XXX committee (formerly known as XXY committee)] To move look for the down arrow next to the star on top of the article, below search box, click it and follow instructions. But feel free to wait for other opinions before charging ahead. CarolMooreDC (talk) 15:27, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Policy link on editor "responsibilities"

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:33, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

At this thread this self-styled "newbie" keeps asking me for my philosophy and my reading list to challenge my explanations on the WP:OR of his proposing to reorganize the article according to criteria he has yet to prove are backed by WP:RS (and probably are not). I just can't figure out what the best page to refer him to to explain "editor responsibilities" (or whatever you might call it). I.e., that would explain that unless one is using/proposing new references, editors don't have to do this and it is WP:Soapbox or tendentious editing or whatever for him to keep asking me. Thanks! CarolMooreDC (talk) 14:04, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Although I prefer to assume good faith, my sense is he's conning you. First, he's not really such a newbie. He's been heavily editing since August 2010 and has been registered since March 2009. Second, he's a self-proclaimed historian, and I think he's trying to obliquely "show you up" as a non-expert. He's not asking you for policy; he's asking you for what you've read on a particular topic, which is at best condescending and at worst inappropriate. I'd ignore him, but if you feel you can't do that, then just refer him to the usual policies like WP:EDIT and WP:RS. If you want to refer him to WP:EXPERT, an essay/failed guideline, you could.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:03, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Good analysis! Figured best way to deal with him was a nice policy link/quote. Didn't know about WP:Edit (!) Learn something every day! Thanks. CarolMooreDC (talk) 13:21, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

moises salinas

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:34, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

This is the first time I am trying to edit a page and I am totally confused. I am trying to add important biographical info to the above article to include criminal activity of which he has been found guilty. My reference source is the mainstream press,i.e. The Hartford (CT) Courant, March 9, 2011. I thought I had edited it properly but apparently the style of the reference note is not correct.

Help! Davidmb48 (talk) 15:12, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I fixed it for you. If you look at this diff you can see what I did. GB fan (talk) 15:26, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

help taking down an autobiographical article

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:34, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Frances O'Roark Dowell (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Last fall I posted a brief article about my publishing history, unaware that this isn't how Wikipedia works. I just wanted something to link back to the UMass MFA program page, so anyone I'd gone to grad school with could see what I was up to. Obviously, I should have done a bit more research about Wikipedia before posting. In any event, I would like the article deleted, mostly out of personal embarrassment--not at the content, which is factual--but just because it looks like I'm self-promoting. Is there anyway to take this article down?'roark-DFrancesdowell (talk) 00:18, 14 March 2011 (UTC)owell

Thanks for your help!

Best, Frances O'Roark Dowell

Welcome Ms. O'Roark Dowell. The short story is that articles are generally not deleted because their subject or original author requests them to be deleted. Looking at the history of the article, it seems that it was proposed for deletion last year using the proposed deletion process, but was not deleted because another editor decided that you were notable. It is possible that if the article about you was brought to articles for deletion that it would be deleted, but it's not a guarantee. For what it's worth, the article does not appear to me to be promotional and is comparable to other articles about authors that are of similar length. Does that help? --Danger (talk) 00:37, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your prompt reply. Well, I'm glad it doesn't seem self-promotional, but it's still a bit embarrassing to have all the notations above it about it being suspicious because I wrote it. I suppose that's what I get for not investigating the rules more closely (or, to be honest, at all) and for wanting to make sure the people I went to grad school know I'd amounted to something! Again, thanks for the fast feedback; I appreciate your help.

Best, Frances Dowell — Preceding unsigned comment added by Francesdowell (talkcontribs) 01:53, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

For what it's worth I have added the article to my watchlist, if you have any specific concerns about it in the future it may be worth asking on the article talk page: Talk:Frances O'Roark Dowell. Rehevkor 02:03, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
The article is OK and reflects the subject's notability as an author, it does however need more reliable references per WP:BLP just to confirm notability, and other editors might request these.Kudpung (talk) 02:23, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Peak Phosphorus

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:35, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Peak phosphorus (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) editor chhe has twice removed my additions to the Peak Phosphorus page. Chhe first claimed it was plagerism thenthat it contained copywrite material. In both cases this is incorrect and I have re-instated my contribution. I suspect it will again be removed and I would like a third (neutral) oppinion. I am new to Wikipedia, so please excuse me if I am misunderstanding the proceedure. Feedingtheworld (talk) 13:10, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

The text you posted and re-posted was previously published on this website. At the bottom it says "© Fertecon Research Centre Limited", so I agree that this is a copyright violation. As it says on your talk page, you may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of article content such as sentences or images. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:16, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Table is moving to external links

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:35, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I've added a table with images to a section of Maidenform (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). The table and images move down to the external links catagory.

Bfoster333 (talk) 16:42, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

I've added the missing "end of table" marker. You will sort out the licensing and copyright issues on those pictures, won't you? -- John of Reading (talk) 16:47, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
I note your connection with the Maidenform company. Please read the Wikipedia policies on conflict of interest and advertising, and especially this section. I suspect that much of the material you have been adding will be removed fairly soon, since it reads as advertising and does not cite any sources. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:58, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Nonsense on the second wave of the Spanish flu

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:36, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Dear editor,

My changes to errors in the Wiki on Spanish flu have been undone. I pointed out that the "theory" of the second wave is unsupported, and referred to those who identified the virus (Mohrens and Tauberger, in the New England Journal of Medicine). 1- The reference to later 'partial immunity" by sufferers from that flu is from a newspaper article - how on earth would you be able to identify systematically that partial immunity many decades later, other than through anecdote? You can check this statement is only supported by hearsay. Epidemiologists attribute that partial immunity to the large pandemics in 1896-1900: these saved the elderly. Now you assume that the imaginary "first wave" did not touch the younger??? 2- It was this theory of the second wave that created a health scare from a mild virus. It is an observable fact that this health scare generated billions for the vaccine and antiviral industry. This creates powerful interests.

I am not ready to learn the ropes of wikipedia. Besides, I can not compete with interest groups with multi billion interests. I would like you to remove this part of the "second wave" of the wiki. If you don't believe me, you may read the paper in the New England, the most prestigious medical journal. You can check my name in the Pubmed to observe that I am a regular scientist. You may check for yourself that the history of acquired immunity is tenuous indeed (if not impossible).

Yours truly,

Luc Bonneux [details removed] —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:30, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

I suggest that you post at Talk:1918 flu pandemic where it will be seen by the editors most interested in the article. I have removed your email address to protect your privacy; Wikipedia editors tend to communicate using talk pages, not by email, and posting email addresses here only encourages spam. -- John of Reading (talk) 17:39, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

John Florescu page

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 01:37, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

John M. Florescu (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)


My name is Dana Gliga. I am contacting you reffering John Florescu's wikipedia profile. I know I have been receiving a message from Wikipedia's assistance about the fact that if I don't provide references, more exactly, links about the pege yped on wikipedia website, it would be deleted. I begun to post the text about John Florescu on 4th of March and the term (regarding the possibility to be deleted) was mentioned to be about 10 days.

Please do not delete the page created, because I will send you references about John Florescu in short time. He is a worldwide very good known producer, one of the best cable television professionists. You'll see upon the links that I will send you.

I will forward you tomorrow other sources from other websites as you suggested in your inquiry. Thank you for your understanding.

Best regards, Dana Gliga. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dana83art (talkcontribs) 18:04, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Well you need to put these references in the article. The PROD template provides a link to how to go about referencing. You don't have much time as the notice has been there for ten days! I note that you have a copy in your user space, so if it does get deleted, then add the refs to your user copy and then ask for feedback at WP:FEEDBACK. THe references that you have provided are not very useful as they appear, at a quick glance, to be merely TV listings. Jezhotwells (talk) 18:28, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
(e/c) These URLs do confirm that John M. Florescu was the producer for various TV shows. I have added them to the article and removed the deletion notice. The article still needs lots more work and lots more references, both to verify the information given and to show that people have written about him. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:33, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Accidently deleted references

Resolved: Jezhotwells (talk) 21:04, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I accidently deleted the references from a page when I tried to add my own (alkaline diet) —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 03:14, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

The references disappeared because you deleted {{Reflist}} in [3]. Your edits have been reverted. See Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners for the right way to make an inline reference. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:31, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Selection websites for the Wikipedia page

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 21:05, 20 March 2011 (UTC)


I am writing again with the request to add some websites about John Florescu's activity as an executive producer and as an cable television expert. I will forward you a selection of some articles written by or about John M. Florescu. They are in NYT, Washington Post, Christian Science Monitor, Boston Globe, San Francisco Chronicle. I will send you also some refernces written by important personalities from the political life reffering John Florescu as a nominee for the post of Ambassador of Romania. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dana83art (talkcontribs) 10:05, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

John M. Florescu (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Yes, those will help improve the article, especially those written about this person. But please don't post them on this page, since this is a general "help" forum. Instead, either add them to the article, preferably using citations, or place them on the article talk page for other editors to see and use. -- John of Reading (talk) 10:22, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
Dana, you don't need to ask here every time. Several editors are watching your talk page, the article, and the article talk page. I have also given you a lot of help as you will remember. You can leave a message on the article talk page or ask me directly on my talk page. --Kudpung (talk) 20:30, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Page locked/blocked while trying to create.

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 21:05, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

32nd Cavalry Regiment (United States) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

I can no longer edit a redirect page I was trying to create because I screwed up trying to follow the directions (I've never done this before.) Now I'm blocked from further work on the page because it suspects I'm vandalizing for some reason.

I'm trying to add a redirect from: 32nd Cavalry Regiment (United States) to: 32nd Armored Regiment (United States)

The first one ( the redirect attempt) is the one that's blocked.

Thanks for any help! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wheels0132 (talkcontribs) 16:02, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Well the problem seems to be that your target is actually called 32nd Armor Regiment (United States). Should that be moved to 32nd Armored Regiment (United States)? Jezhotwells (talk) 16:09, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Editing query

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 21:06, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Can you please tell us how something important may be added to a locked page? We refer specifically to the following:

We would like to post a reference but cannot. We have a major reference book about the Nazi party that Wikipedia viewers should know about. How can we get the title, author, etc., posted on the page?

Thank you. (talk) 16:33, 15 March 2011 (UTC)Enigma Books editors

It should be noted that for quite some time now this IP has been used only to add books published by Enigma Books (a minor publisher in New York City) to other articles. I have given them a level-3 anti-advertising warning, as this seems to be their only purpose here. --Orange Mike | Talk 16:48, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

/* External links */ we are new to wikipedia and might not understand the rules

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 21:07, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

My mom is an AKC Judge and has content on her site that we thouhgt would be benenifical for article but we have noticed that that Miyagawa removed every edit we do. I hoping this is just because we didn't create the link correctly or something. I'm wondering if we add to the article if this might be a better way of sharing information instead of just putting an external link.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prosenba (talkcontribs) 19:13, 15 March 2011

It's been removed as a spamlink to a commercial website which sells Pomeranians. --Orange Mike | Talk 19:34, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
Just an additional note to say that you are more than welcome to add your link to the Pomeranian section at the dmoz open directory project which is linked to from the article here. Miyagawa (talk) 21:28, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Having Trouble with Searching Article Archives

Resolved: Jezhotwells (talk) 20:06, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Salsa (dance) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

  1. I was trying to create an archive page for the Talk:Salsa (dance) discussions, but I think I might have done something wrong, because the archive searches don't work.
  2. Here is an example of the search not working correctly. If you search for "Picture", you should get 1 result for it in the search. But if you click on that link, you don't go to the archive, you go back to the main talk page where the topic isn't there anymore. Yet if you check the archive, the discussion is indeed in there.
  3. This is what I did to create the archive, and why I think I might have messed up. I followed the instructions on Wikipedia for using the cut and paste procedure for creating an archive, but I only archived one of the discussions. Later on, I went and edited the archive to add more discussions to it, but the {{talkarchive}} tags say not to edit the contents, which I did several times.

Can anyone help me fix this please? Cold Salsero (talk) 02:04, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

You also asked this question at Wikipedia:Help_desk#Having_Trouble_with_Searching_Article_Archives and it has been answered there. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:37, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
Got it, thanks! Cold Salsero (talk) 10:22, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

User space redirects?

Resolved: Jezhotwells (talk) 21:01, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Is there a policy about redirects in user space? I found a user with a borderline offensive username whose only edits are from 2008 when he redirected both his user and user_talk pages to the mainspace article to which his username alludes. (talk) 11:02, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. There's no point in being cagey about it. Let us know who it is and we'll investigate. --Kudpung (talk) 12:06, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
[4] [5] —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:17, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
I have removed the redirects. It is inappropriate to redirect your talk page to an article. With the redirect in place you can not leave any messages for the user. GB fan (talk) 13:13, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

I need someone to delete my edits please!

Resolved: Jezhotwells (talk) 20:59, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Help! I obviously don't know what I'm doing so I need someone to fix my errors. I was trying to edit "Janet Fielding" and was correcting her date of birth and age to 1957 and 53, resepectively. All edits performed on 3/20/11 were mine. Thank you.

Link: —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:43, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Fixed, nothing to worry about. Incidentally, blog sites like Blogspot aren't generally considered reliable sources for information in Wikipedia articles. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:52, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Repeated attempts to move Spark(fire), always restarting after failing to get a consensus to move

Resolved: Moving on at talk. Danger (talk) 00:41, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Over on Talk:Spark_(fire), there have been five failed attempts to get a consensus to rename the page, within four months. Every time an attempt fails, yet another attempt starts. All but one of these have been started by the same editor. The sixth attempt has just started. This all seems a bit silly. Can it be curtailed somehow? ErnestfaxTalk 19:04, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Two closed debates ending in no consensus for the move - the last one yesterday. The only way to curtail this is for the concerned editors to simply move on to more constructive work and stop fanning the fire. --Kudpung (talk) 14:13, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
Groan! Pun warning next time please! – ukexpat (talk) 17:06, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
Kudpung can't help it. He's just got that fire in his belly for improving the 'pedia. Danger (talk) 02:58, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you. And thanks for your sparky comments and for not flaming me ErnestfaxTalk 08:05, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
  • This is a total mischaracterization of the situation. There was one long discussion, split into multiple categories, ending with a move proposal that failed, with many of the oppose votes proposing alternate options. A second proposal was just made which basically no one agreed with, and now discussion is continuing. Some editors seem to insist that, since the first proposal did not pass (with the closer encouraging a continued discussion) that all discussion should end and all the concerns raised by both support and oppose !voters should be ignored. Rather than try to stifle discussion, I'd encourage anyone knowledgable about science to come participate.--Yaksar (let's chat) 08:59, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
I don't see what is inconsistent with WP:CON here. The discussion has been civil and informative and has resulted in at least partial consensus and progress in the disambiguation of spark. The closing admin of the first move request said "This topic appears to be the primary topic, and if consensus is established, it may be moved to Spark." Per the admin's suggestion, I proposed the move to spark. [6] There was a strong consensus against the move and, more importantly, a strong consensus that there is no primary topic.[7] SInce there was consensus on no primary topic, I was able to add content to electric spark that might otherwise have gone into a primary topic article.[8] This allowed yet another editor to clean up the spark DAB page.[9] There are content and naming issues that remain at spark (fire), but significant consensus has been achieved on several issues and there has been improvement in the content of the spark articles. Rather than being told to move on I think that Yaksar should be thanked for helping to build the consensus that we have achieved so far and encouraged to continue to participate in useful consensus building discussions. --Kkmurray (talk) 14:17, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
That being said, I'm sure Ernestfax has a good reason for wanting to stop all discussion other than there being too much of it, which I'm very curious to hear.--Yaksar (let's chat) 17:26, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
My suggestion was plural. I have great respect for all the editors concerned, but I think this debate over the name needs a pause. Kudpung (talk) 15:27, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
The "debate" at the moment isn't even about renaming, but the creation and splitting of other types of spark articles off of the Spark (fire) article so that it is primarily and only about sparks in terms of fire. I don't see anything wrong with such a discussion. SilverserenC 02:42, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
Kudpung, with all due respect (and I really do mean that in a sincere way), there seems to be progress being made in the discussion, and it will most likely be continuing, especially since, as Silver Seren pointed out, it has resulted in developments beyond just a title change. I hope you don't take my disagreement as a slight. Thank you.--Yaksar (let's chat) 04:50, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
No problems at all Yaksar. I hope this EAR discussion has helped in some ways. Progress is indeed being made on the talk page, and I've stopped following it, so perhaps we can close this one. Keep up all your good work. Kudpung (talk) 05:28, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Second opinion on personal entires in Silverpoint article

Resolved: Danger (talk) 00:42, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Silverpoint (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

This article seems to have been hijacked by two [editors] <attempted outing redacted> who have each entered quite a bit of self-promotional information and personal links into the page. I am not comfortable with the editing rules, and there seems to be a bit of rivalry on the discussion page. It is quite different than the articles on watercolor, or oil painting for example. (talk) 19:58, 7 March 2011 (UTC)amy

I removed a lot of WP:COATRACK and WP:PEACOCK material.Jonathanwallace (talk) 01:14, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Please do not attempt to out other editors. Danger (talk) 00:09, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Citation issues

Resolved: Danger (talk) 05:43, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

I invented a new word and I can't provide Citations other than from my own published works. brending — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jdzarlino (talkcontribs) 04:38, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you are referring to. A page named John Zarlino was deleted in 2007 - is it anything to do with that? Please provide more details, but see also WP:COI. Kudpung (talk) 05:39, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Summer camp possible advert

Camp Moshava, Wild Rose, WI (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) The article Camp Moshava, Wild Rose, WI is an article about a summer camp. It seems notable and is sourcing everything but somehow has become a WP:ADVERT and WP:NOTWEBHOST. The main editor states on his talk page that is a past employee. Any help in assessing how to proceed would be appreciated. If you look at it and it seems fine, I'd be appreciative to know. Thanks, Joe407 (talk) 21:17, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

You seem to have done pretty well. I'm sorry that no one addressed this in a timely manner. I've raised some of my concerns about notability on the article talk page. Danger (talk) 18:08, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
Answered: The discussion has now moved to the article talk page and is progressing. Thank you all. Joe407 (talk) 08:03, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Help with a deleted article and one that has been proposed

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 15:52, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

I helped to create both the Nefsis and Loring Ward pages. Sticking to Wikipedia guidelines, each page has/had a significant amount of reliable sources.

In the Loring Ward case, a Wiki admin deleted the page altogether without putting up a flag for speedy deletion or a flag for proposed deletion.

In the Nefsis case, this article has been nominated for deletion on the Nefsis articles for deletion page

The editor who flagged the Nefsis page and tore down the Loring Ward page citing Churnalism for both artilces – yet each page has/had references from reliable sources.

Wondering if I could get help/guidance on how to deal with this Wiki admin and if there is a possibility to get the Loring Ward page back up since the editor did not put up a flag, as common practice. Karebear 1022 (talk) 23:38, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi. The instructions for getting the Loring Ward page undeleted or WP:userfied are on the deletion notice at User talk:Jbarbi. The Nefsis article will be decided on by consensus of the community - you are welcome to comment there if you have not already done so. --Kudpung (talk) 04:22, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
Criteria for speedy deletion like WP:CSD#G11 do not require that a flag is put up, but I have commented on your post at User talk:JzG#Loring Ward and Nefsis. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:26, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Marc Mysterio Page Vandalism

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 15:51, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

I have been engaged in a disput for the past 2 days now with user KWW and now user Edjohnston whom I asked for help first. KWW has needlessly deleted numerous very notable events of this artist -- ALL WHICH ARE/WERE SOURCED!

I'm asking that the edits of KWW 03:34, 15 March 2011 are reverted. This is a copy of the conversation for edjohnston talk page:

Hi, I noticed you placed a protection on the Marc Mysterio page in 2009. It came to my attention that a user with the handle KWW is, and has been for over 2 years, needlessly butchering this article of sourced info.

I have now reverted his edits on a few occasions and added sources but this fellow is intent on killing this article, and this is a very known musician on major labels and major press.

Can you please place the article under a loock status to prevent this KWW from further vandalizing and revert the edits he may make in the interim between now and the time you get this.

He is even deleting sourced notices of the artist collab on a Grammy winner new album (Roger Sanchez) and other chartings.

This is one of the better sourced articles on this web site to it seems this KWW may have some personal issue or obession with the artist.

marc mysterio page is here: —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:29, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Take a look at the history, and I'm sure you will notice that the edits I am reverting are puffery, unsourced information, and questionable charts. The anon here is either Marc Mysterio himself or one of his promotional staff. It's been a running problem on the page for several years.—Kww(talk) 03:39, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
I reviewed Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard/Archive 29#Marc Mysterio. Based on that, plus the recent IP edits, I've semiprotected Marc Mysterio for one year. EdJohnston (talk) 03:57, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. I hadn't realised that other people had already figured out that we were dealing with Mr. Mysterio himself.—Kww(talk) 04:31, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Ed, can you please revert the edits of KWW as they are valdalism and were done prior to your protection and is the exact cause of the valdalism which requested the edit. @kww, I am not Marc Mysterio. Why would you think he is the one making these edits? You sound to have a personal gripe with the artist? Information that was removed, was all sourced and I even spent 20 minutes sourcing it myself. It appears info was even edited out that was previously talked about on discussion page. Sourced collaborations with Grammy Winners, MTV Awards, etc. I suggest a revert of the last edits of KWW. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 07:06, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Assistance needed to edit aricle with an abusive editor

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 15:51, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi, I'm relatively new to wikipedia, and have run across an article with apparently an abusive old timer. I'm pretty sure they can't get away with what they are doing, but since I am learning the ropes, I'm not sure what to do.

The article is here:,_Mark,_Luke_and_John

The problem is the user editor claims that it is widely called the Black Patornoster in the opening, but won't cite it. Looking online, very few if any people call it this.

A cite on origins further down provides the only citation for a Black Patonoster, but it was only for a book citing a reference to a similar (not the same) poem made by an alleged witch - "Satan's invisible world". I looked at the source the editor provided. Originally, the name of the author of the book wasn't correct either. The quote alleged from Ady in the book isn't there either. I've repeatadly tried to correct this, but the editor just keeps putting it back - while keeping the correction to the author's actual name, and is accusing me of vandalism..

Now, actually, I've never removed his material, although I feel it is pretty bad research, I just kept after correcting the quote that wasn't correct and the author's name which wasn't correct.

However, the section I put it which has sources for a possible catholic origin of this rhyme keeps getting removed. I believe that is vandalism according to wikipedia. I think it's pretty darn poor scholarship to keep information when it is shown to be wrong, and to delete information about a possible origin of a ryme when it is part of the printed literature.

Can anyone help?

I have trouble following the article, but I do have some advice for you as an editor. You should stop edit-warring. It won't help, and you may end up being blocked.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:36, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
MaxKen - I left you a note on my talk page. I think you may believe that several editors are ganging up against you. Actually we have all rolled back the edits you made independent of one another, which means that we are all seeing the same thing, Please discuss what you want changed on the talk page for the article. There it can be discussed. When you make serial repeat edits it flags you as a vandal and the software we use will flag any edits to that page as possible vandalism. Good luck! Golgofrinchian ≤TALK≥ 03:04, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Help in category

Answered:  Chzz  ►  20:12, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi, On Category:Open proxies blocked on Wikipedia contains 27,054 Open Proxies that are blocked on Wikipedia. Those 27k separated into 199 pages. I want to take them into a single page like we do on history pages. Please help. Thank you --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ walkie-talkie | tool box 17:11, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

User:Chzz/open_proxies. Warning: Big page, 795 kB. If you need something else, let me know. Cheers,  Chzz  ►  20:04, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia having a article on Open-Source HTML5 Advertising

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 15:50, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not have a article on Open-Source HTML5 Advertising.

Wikipedia uses donations for Ad-free content in 2011, Wikipedia only accepts Ogg-Theora multimedia content.

Use of Open-Source video formats as Elements in HTML5 Advertising, is an important situation which can be a article on Wikipedia.

The article can mention the various types of Open-Source HTML5 video Ads.

HTML5 video Banners HTML5 Video Overlay Ads HTML5 Pre-Roll Commercials HTML5 Multi-Element HTML5 Ads

The article can mention Flash, Canvas, and other Web Advertising methods.

The article can mention both Ogg-Theora and Google's WebM video formats as video elements in HTML5 Advertising.

(Types of Ad formats Wikipedia would have displayed, if it had Advertising to supplement operating costs in 2011).

The article can mention browser share supporting Open-Source HTML5 Advertising.

The article can mention possible Open-Source Advertising on Wikipedia, (as an example for general reference).

The article can mention Open-Source mobile HTML5 Advertising on phones and tablets.

The article can have a link to the examples.

Open-Source HTML5 Advertising, is a important article to add to Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:22, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

See WP:NOTABILITY. – ukexpat (talk) 21:20, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
Your suggestion may or may not be deemed notable enough for an article. You could suggest it at requested articles. Pastordavid (talk) 05:05, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Question about requested articles

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 15:50, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

I placed a request on the Requested Articles page for Businesses and organizations a few months ago for inVNT, but haven't seen any movement or received any feedback from the editorial community. Admittedly, I took the wrong route in trying to post this article myself, as I'm a contractor for the company, and it was deleted under the conflict of interest rules. So instead, I posted the request here. My question is, what else can I do to get an editor to consider writing an article about the company? I already have a few notable pieces of media coverage listed here (and I can list more), which seems to be more than what a lot of people are doing on the Requested Articles page. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! Andrew rodger (talk) 18:17, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Requested Articles is a crazy slow turn around, the chances of anyone making an article based on a request there are, admittedly, slim. Another issue is that the article was deleted, via discussion: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/InVNT. The conclusion there was that the company simply wasn't notable (per WP:CORP), this could be a stumbling block if someone were to recreate the article. My advice, would be to let it go. If in the future your company becomes notable to Wikipedia, someone independent from the company will, in theory, create an article on it. Conflict of interest and spam editing is something that is very much looked down on Wikipedia, the best chance for an article would be for you and any other staff members to step away and let things take their course. Rehevkor 18:46, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

could you upload the picture in my article Ramjee Kunwar

Resolved:  Chzz  ►  21:34, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I am finding bit difficult to put the picture of Mr. Ramjee Kunwar to its page . If its possible to help and also sort out the format

thank you

Prashant — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prashantk23 (talkcontribs) 20:54, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

the steps at Wikipedia:Upload are fairly clear I think. What is the particular problem? Jezhotwells (talk) 21:08, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
I'm marking this 'resolved' because Prashantk23 uploaded File:Mr._Ramjee_Kunwar.jpg, and then successfully added it to article Ramjee Kunwar here on 18 March.  Chzz  ►  21:34, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Martin Hirsch

Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 00:42, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Martin Hirsch (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

In the course of the unreferenced BLP, I took a lot of French persons articles in my watchlist. I spotted a problem wht I beleive is a problem with neutrality on this article, and I'm now accused of "exporting a wp:fr edit war". --Anneyh (talk) 09:51, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

For such a tiny stub, this article is indeed a mess. Your contribution about what he said on TV is jarring, without any context, and overtakes the entire article. Also, my assumption is that your citation to the video website is improper because it's a potential copyright violation. The editor who is reverting your changes is correct, in my view, although there should be a discussion of the issue on the Talk page.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:19, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
I've reverted your information and started a discussion on the article Talk page.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:43, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, just a detail, I have not inserted the statement, but reverted it a few times. Thanks for answering my request for help. --Anneyh (talk) 10:47, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the material keeps coming back in. No one wants to contribute to the discussion on the Talk page (except one mindless comment). The material is incoherent and still a possible copyright violation. I've posted a message regarding the copyright vio on WP:MCQ here, but no one has responded and it was the wrong place for me to post it. I should have posted it at WP:CP, but I'm embarrassed to say I didn't know that. I'll try to fix that, but in the meantime, I'm running out of reverts.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:59, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, I looked more closely at WP:CP, and I couldn't see a way among the oh-so-complex instructions to discuss whether citing to a particular website ( is a copyright violation, particularly, as here, when I've reverted the material, not just for the copyright vio but for other issues. So, I did nothing at WP:CP. If anyone here has guidance on this issue, I'm listening.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:06, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
One more update in this little dialog I'm having with myself. I was just reverted again, and again with no contribution to the Talk page discussion. Although I could revert once more without violating any rules, I'm fed up with it and hopefully will get some comments here. The reverting editor put {{uw-3rr}}, which really makes the article look even sillier than before. I guess he didn't realize he should have put it on my Talk page. Fortunately, the silliness was only temporary as yet another editor reverted (thus removing the offending material and the template). That's the state of it for the Wikipedia present.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:14, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
The last editor who removed the material said it was because it wasn't notable. That didn't last long. Yet another editor (in his first edit as a registered editor), put the material back in saying that we shouldn't fight for "political reasons", whatever that means. I provide these wonderful little updates in the hope that if I whine enough, someone will help. :-) --Bbb23 (talk) 23:25, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
You are correct that these Dailymotion videos are of uncertain copyright status, we cannot presume the uploaders are the copyright holders (but any idiot can see that they are not) at least until some evidence and a consensus on the talk page, or the original source cited directly - if reliable. Per WP:3RR#3RR exemptions these edits can be reverted without limit and the editors reported to the relevant noticeboards, regardless of any merit the edits may have. Rehevkor 23:36, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks much, Matthew. If necessary, what noticeboard would you suggest reporting them to?--Bbb23 (talk) 23:58, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
WP:AIV probably, see WP:VANDTYPES, copyright violations can be considered vandalism as long as the users are warned. Rehevkor 00:13, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Gang stalking

Answered: Danger (talk) 23:55, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Gang stalking, group stalking, community stalking, cause stalking or gaslighting refers to alleged coordinated harassment often involving electronic and psychological methods such as HSS speakers and classical conditioning. [1] These activities are difficult to trace or verify, leaving few precedents for public credibility outside of cases such as the electronic harassment of James Walbert.[2]

Anecdotal accounts generally depict gang stalking as a widespread, often international conspiracy of unclear intent, associated with counterintelligence programs such as MKULTRA and CoIntelPro.<ref>{{cite web|url=|title=WHO IS GETTING THOUSANDS OF GANG STALKING REPORTS A MONTH?|date=August 17, 2009||accessdate=2011-03-03}}</ref>Critics propose that reports of gang stalking are rooted in psychological issues catalyzed by the exchange of information on the internet.[3][4]

As you can see, this proposed entry is significantly less biased towards the assertation that reports of gang stalking can only be attributed to mental illness and is overwhelmingly more sympathetic to victims of a crime that is being reported with increasing frequency and verifiability.

The case of James Walbert is documented in many places online, despite a lack of media acknowledgement. A cursory examination of the issue will reveal that the matter is certainly not trivial and that public awareness of these pernicious crimes would prevent such occasions from transpiring so easily.

Video from the recent bio-ethics committee hearings -

The personal doubts of the wikipedia editors in these matters must be put aside, and a more neutral stance must be taken in this entry when the increasing amount of evidence indicates that these events are actually taking place. There are thousands of reports of gang stalking online, not hundreds, and the truth of the matter is not to be decided by click-happy wikipedia editors.

My proposed article is wholly unbiased towards why these events are taking place and whether they are authentic or imagined, outside of the case of Mr. Walbert, which is verifiable as far as the u.s. legal system is concerned. The denigration heaped on the subject in the current article can be offensive to people who may have had to endure these transgressions.

At any rate, the concept of gang stalking is so widespread in this culture that it does not need to be illegitimised as language. We do not honour the word "small" and refute the word "little" because they both mean the same thing. It is time for the cultural redaction being enacted in the maintenance of this article to cease. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xoxos (talkcontribs) Xoxos (talkcontribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

You need to sort this out on the talk page. Remember to assume good faith. Jezhotwells (talk) 19:07, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
(ec)The page is protected because of disputes - there needs to be a consensus on the talk page before this can be lifted. I see you have no edits there, this should be your first step: Talk:Stalking. Is the core of the issue is grammar and phrasing then it shouldn't be too difficult to come to a consensus.
I'm not sure how I can help you here beyond that, are you complaining about Wikipedia editors being in some way biased? Perhaps you could start a request for comment, there're also some steps in WP:Dispute resolution you could try, but only after you have drained all avenues at the article talk page. Are you asking for someone to come along and back you up? In that case, the issue seems too ambiguous for anyone to just wade in without some knowledge of the subject already. Good luck. Rehevkor 19:15, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the well wishes, I will certainly need them :) I am not sure that a consensus is possible. eg.

Phil Bridger (remove delusional conspiracy theory yet again) Phil Bridger (Once again, please take this to the talk page - previous consensus has been against including these delusions Phil Bridger (revert addition of loopy conspiracy theory "cause stalking" content -

I do not have Phil Bridger's experience with editing wikipedia and expect that I will be outmanoeuvred at every turn. Moreover, though I am not able to prove it, I would not be surprised in the slightest to find that this topic is watched by special interest groups who already have a large body of active editors to ensure that this topic does not express views they find unfavourable, which is why I am appealing to whatever authority on wikipedia there is to help to approach objectivity in this matter instead of wasting my time struggling with these offensive censors in their territory.

If no one is able to interject on the grounds I have already presented, I will pursue the protocol for request for comment as recommended.

I agree re: ambiguity. We have two sides to this argument: either these reports are in part factual, as verified by Mr. Walbert's case, or they are delusional, as suggested by an article in the New York Times. Perhaps the u.s. courts are not equal to the opinions of the New York Times journalists on the matter of reality? Especially since both have vested interests, I will once again request that an entry that is not biased against the claims of gang stalking be adopted, thank you :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xoxos (talkcontribs) 19:32, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Belief that a consensus cannot be gained without even trying won't get you very far here. You should discuss it on the talk page then if that fails I provided some alternative venues for you. Good luck. Rehevkor 19:39, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


Answered: Jezhotwells (talk) 00:42, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi there, My post in whistleblowing was removed as it was considered 'promotional'

I work for a registered charity that gives free legal advice to anyone in the UK who wants to blow the whistle on something at work, but who is unsure about how to go about this

The awareness of our free help is low and this seems a simple way to help

There is no commercial gain from quoting our existence and phone number, its is a straightforward user benefit, and I would like to request that the post is reinstated

Gary Brown Public Concern at Work <phone number redacted> — Preceding unsigned comment added by Garybrown23 (talkcontribs) 17:23, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and cannot be used to promote your charity. Rehevkor 17:29, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
I have redacted your phone number. – ukexpat (talk) 17:41, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
To expand on what Rehevkor has said, promotion for any sort of organization, person, or product is not appropriate for an encyclopedia; it does not matter if you will not make money from it. Look here for more details. --Danger (talk) 20:48, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
We are not here to promote organizations, but we are here to promote the dissemination of useful knowledge. If Mr. Brown wants to help expand and add detail to our pages on whistleblowing, perhaps to include a list of resources for whistleblowers in the UK, that would surely be helpful. Simply posting one organization's phone number everywhere doesn't seem helpful in and of itself, but the interest in improving awareness does not need to be stigmatized. @garybrown23: If you want to add more detailed information about specific outlets for whistleblowers, but don't know how to do that in Wikipedia's style, you can leave a comment on the talk page of the article (or here, for that matter) -- a description of the context of UK whistleblowing laws, and other resources available in your country, would help editors figure out if there is an appropraite list that could be made. SJ+ 19:24, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Traditional Chinese Medicine

Discussion moved: This went to AN/I. Danger (talk) 23:57, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Traditional Chinese medicine (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

I am still relatively new to WP, but I am frustrated and curious to get a second opinion. I created a wiki profile in 2008 in order to contribute to the TCM page. I have been attempting to do so this last week, but there is an editor who seems to be on WP 24/7 lawyering all suggestions and acting as a consensus. There are other very knowledgable editors working to improve this article as well, but none can keep up with the editors (PPdd) constant changes. He has changed my entries and claimed he mistakenly erased them thinking it was his addition, but never reverted the entry when I pointed out that it was my addition. He makes accusations of POV due to the subject matter and ignores the consensus on the definition of what constitutes Traditional Chinese Medicine. I find it impossible to reach any consensus with other editors since by the time we discuss it on the talk page, PPdd has changed the whole thing many times over. I just wish he could be given a time out from the page in order to allow some time for those editors with a great deal of schooling (including masters of science and doctorates) on this matter a chance to work out inaccuracies without them being changed 30 seconds later, with 10 other inaccuracies being introduced at the same time. I'll admit that most editors trying to improve this page are fairly new to WP, and that has lead to a great deal of wikilawyering and citing of rules without true care for accurate entries. Calus (talk) 01:23, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

me against everyone else

Stale: Danger (talk) 23:57, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Gavin Menzies (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Hi, recently I've been trying to make some improvements to this biography of a living person, which I think is biased. I tried to do this a year ago when I was new at wikipedia, and now I'm trying again. This article has been very controversial for over two years. For me the problem, now as well as last year, is that everybody usually disagrees with me. So I'm hoping to get some neutral feedback: Are my suggestions reasonable? Am I presenting them in a manner that is clear and civil? I entered the discussion on the talk page here, and everything below this section on the talk page has been discussion of my recent suggestions.
Thanks! --Other Choices (talk) 02:46, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Difficulty dealing with User:Macropneuma

Answered: Danger (talk) 23:58, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Masanobu Fukuoka (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

I am having great difficulty dealing with User:Macropneuma working on the article Masanobu Fukuoka. I had originally gotten involved through an RFC to help improve a previously woeful version of the page [10] but have struggled to understand Macropneuma's objections through incredibly long talk page comments with unconventional grammar and littered with accusations of POV, personal attacks and a plethora of other wikilinks (eg. [11][12][13]). He had also tried to revert the entire page back to his last version [14] with an unintelligible edit summary.

Since then he has engaged in sarcastic (eg. [15]) or outright incivil edit summaries (eg. [16]), has been hostile in his comments on the talk page. When asked to comment on the reasoning behind his changes or to help seek consensus, he seems to refuse to detail his concerns in any clear or concise manner and instructs to 'read the talk page', which is now over 160K in size. The explanations he does give don't make much sense to me and he doesn't seem interested in answering what I consider to be fair, simple questions to try to deduce his meaning.

I believe I've made genuine effort to try to work with this editor. I have become increasingly frustrated and less able to assume good faith on his part, and I admit that I have been drawn into a few edit wars (including us both crossing the 3RR line) with him born from that frustration. Obviously I'm not happy about that, and I've made clear that if any reports were to happen I'd be reporting myself as well. I've had to warn him no less than five times to stop making unfounded accusations about me (he seems to believe anything I say contrary to his opinion is a personal attack or POV), including his comment that he has 'better editors' to deal with. I believe there is still a case of WP:OWN going on, but since the article has very few interested editors, for the most part it's just the two of us and I'm really struggling to find a way to productively work together with him.

I could really use some advice here on how best to proceed. TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 05:43, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

You might want to move on for a few months. Don't forget that there are other editors out there and that you don't need to personally safeguard the page. SJ+ 19:33, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Pat Tillman quote consensus closure

Resolved: KFP 16:02, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi, can someone please evaluate consensus and close the discussion in Talk:Pat Tillman#Hew to the source?

It is a quite simple discussion about "Should we use THIS quote or THAT quote".

It had generated a lot of discussion since 8 December 2010, and so - on 9 march - I created a new heading, "Clarifying for consensus", to try and sort things out.

Without wishing to be at all biased...I think consensus is clear. But as I've actually commented in the discussion, I'd like someone else to close it off.

Many thanks,  Chzz  ►  07:57, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Off-topic link spam

Resolved: Danger (talk) 00:01, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Heat map (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

The article above contains an external link to something called iMapBuilder which is off topic and seems to be only for the purpose of advertising a commercial product. The user's only edits are postings of this link to this and other articles, although this is the only article it remains on. Attempts to remove the link by previous editors and myself have been reverted by the original editor. I also posted on the user's talk page to indicate the reasons, although it is an IP user ( so I'm not sure if that is significant. To continue trying to remove the link would just be to engage in an edit war. So, I'm not sure what the proper process is from here. Any guidance would be appreciated. Polydeuces (talk) 14:00, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

I've given the IP some standard advice. If this IP keeps spamming without discussion, you can report it at WP:AIV. If even that doesn't work - perhaps because several different IPs join in - you could try the Wikipedia:Spam blacklist. -- John of Reading (talk) 14:22, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
The suggestions and advice are appreciated. The link has not returned so far, so perhaps the situation is resolved, but I'll keep a watch out. Polydeuces (talk) 16:25, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Platinumshore and Peak oil

Resolved: Editor hasn't been editing. Danger (talk) 00:03, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

User Platinumshore[17] has been asked several times to provide RS sources for material they have written at Peak oil. In response, they have removed CN tags, repeatedly replaced uncited and poorly cited material (ie using wikis, commercial websites, and discussion threads), called other edits "sabatoge", and ignored discussion on their talk page and the article talk page. Please help. (talk) 23:36, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Rabbi Pinto

Stale: Danger (talk) 00:03, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Rabbi Pinto page assistance please ? A major investigative feature was written and need eyes ? - Feature story is here can editors assist ? Thanks much Babasalichai (talk) 11:31, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

non neutrality in article 'acupuncture'

Answered: Danger (talk) 00:05, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

The article on acupuncture is written from a critical, evidence based medicine perspective. And so is grossly non-neutral. Also contains some factual inacuracies. I tried to make some small amendments, I did not remove any of the critical comments, but these were reverted within 24 hours to a previous version (warts and all). I recognize that there may have been some deficiencies in my contribution in terms of sources which presumably could have been noted. I am new to Wikipedia, but I do not have unlimited time to enter into a war of editing. And I do not want to adopt an antagonistic approach. Such an instant dismissal of my work cannot be good in itself in terms of Wikepedia aims and policies.

Examples of factual inacuracies in the first section! The comment on 'causes' of disease is not accurate. Chinese medicine includes a concept of causes of disease that would include emotional, environmental and physical factors. And so the contrast with modern medicine is less clear cut. What this article is describing is the mechanims not the causes. Possibly to acentuate the critical viewpoint. The comment on the origin of 12 channels in 12 rivers of China may or may not be factually accurate (there were 11 meridians in early text so it may not be). But this is only an historical note, and presumably intended to portray acupuncture as fixed in archaic ideas, and not real world observation. For example, the Greeks coined the term 'atom' it would make no sense for me to point this out in front and centre, in an article on modern physics (silly modern physics still believing in ancient Greek ideas) except in an historical context. Describing Qi as metaphysical is not accurate. It is not verified by modern science. But in contradistinction to metaphysics. It is intended to be a model of the physical world in physical laws. It may be disputed, but modern science, but so is 'string' theory, and that would not be described as metaphysical - simply an unproven theory.

Andy Prescott Aaprescott (talk) 14:11, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps that is what has been decided to be the most factually accurate and neutral way to write the article? I'm not really familiar enough to comment on specifics, but I imagine most alt medicine articles have been written from the mainstream/scientific viewpoint. See WP:FRINGE and WP:UNDUE. Beyond that, any specific concerns you have should probably be brought to the attention of users at Talk:Acupuncture. If this is a content dispute, WP:Dispute resolution has avenues available. Rehevkor 14:35, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
Well, Rehevkor, this problem is currently under arbitration, so I suppose I should put this page on my watchlist too. misuse of sources to push a scientific POV is still misuse of sources. --Ludwigs2 14:41, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Ram Rahim Singh

Stale: Danger (talk) 00:06, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

There is a slow motion edit war occurring on these articles. From my perspective, it appears as though there is a version of the first article with WP:PEACOCK and WP:POV problems. There is a group of SPAs fighting to preserve this version and refusing to engage in any discussion:

I have tried various approaches, including copy editing, removing bad sources, and tagging the article for the problems I mentioned above. I also tried getting some input from the WP:INDIA talk pages, but have received no feedback from there. I'd like to get more opinions on whether the article needs changes. The second article is having similar problems, but I haven't participated in it as much. Torchiest talkedits 21:33, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Difference of opinion about nature and relevance of source to article content

Stale: Danger (talk) 00:06, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

There has been a prolonged disagreement of editors on the Talk page Talk:Israel and the apartheid analogy (edit | [[Talk:Talk:Israel and the apartheid analogy|talk]] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), "Section 1 New version of proposed contribution," subsection "1.1 Version 2: First Paragraph" (see the most recent postings in this subsection), regarding proposed sources and text to add to the article itself under its Section 10.2: "Criticism of the Apartheid Analogy:Differences in Motivations." In the case here on which I am asking for an independent assessment, I have proposed adding to the article some description of a book, written by a British analytical philosopher, devoted to the subject of the logic and assumptions in left liberal anti-Israel circles that readily push the apartheid analogy. That the book is notable and that there must be some reference to it in the article has been granted by other editors, but the one chiefly in debate with me about it wants to reduce the reference to a brief phrasing that removes as irrelevant the book's reference to and focus on left liberal ideologists as such, and therefore also the author's "deconstruction" of what lies behind their critical view of Israel including their claim of "apartheid." This however is the whole point of the book, as I have shown in the Talk page debate, and the author discusses this explicitly in the section of his book dealing with the "apartheid" accusations as elsewhere throughout his book. Moreover, it is essential to understanding the relevance of the book to a discussion of "motivations" behind proponents of the Israel apartheid analogy. I argue that the focus on left liberal ideology must be included in the article description, and the argument of the book concerning the cultural significance of this ideology also included as being relevant to "Differences in motivations."Tempered (talk) 22:09, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

AfDs needing closure

Answered: Danger (talk) 00:06, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

This may be the wrong place, but two days ago I asked a couple of Admins on their talk pages and they never responded. We have a pair of AfDs which have been running for far too long, and we need an Admin to come in and close them. The original issue was CoI, but I think that has been solved, and now it comes down to notability. One is about an academic society, the other is about a publication of said society. One solution which has been proposed would be to merge them under the society. That would be acceptable to me as the original author of both articles. I think that between the two we have enough sources to justify notability for at least one article, but not everyone agrees. One problem is that we have a person present (actually an admin, but he appears to be contributing just under his "user" hat) who is arguing for deletion on a very personal basis and raising the aggro level. We just need the thing finished one way or the other. Here are the links:

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Medieval Chronicle Society
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Encyclopedia of the Medieval Chronicle

Would be good if someone in authority can take control of this. Thanks. --Doric Loon (talk) 23:00, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

An admin would need to close this, so try WP:ANI? However, the listings should last a week from the last relist which will be the 19-20th of March. I see no reason to finish early here, the usual reasons being either a snow delete or a speedy. Rehevkor 23:18, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Floating wave power plant page

Answered: Danger (talk) 00:07, 27 March 2011 (UTC)


I created Floating wave power plant page Page still have "This article is being considered for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia's .." sign Please help me to fix it or advise how I can fix it myself

Ivec01 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ivec01 (talkcontribs) 23:39, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Did you look at the deletion discussion here? That will tell you why it is being considered for deletion. Plus, you can contribute to that disussion as well.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:30, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

James O"Keefe

Answered: Danger (talk) 00:07, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

James O'Keefe (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

I have tried several times to improve the page "James O'Keefe". The edits are dismissed and removed almost in real time and whle I'm on the page continuing to edit.

This last time I included several citations from the Wasington Post as well as politico and media matters. Respected sources, all. They were removed in buk and cited as poor sourcing

I also removed a superfluous statement that has been without citation since oct 2010. I also added a reference from the Congressional record.

There were many more.

I took pains this time to carefully cite all my edits.

Someone is carefully watching the page and keeping it slanted in favor of mr o'keefe a controversial figure.

The gist of many of my edits was to change the page so that it doesn't refer to mr okeefes deceptively edited videos at great length before briefly mentioning at the end that the videos have been investigated and discredited

To be blunt, the right wing is watching this page and they're persistently removing any attempts to make the page more objective, even-handed and fair.

Any idea about what to do here? I don't think just undoing their revision is the right thing.

Also, I'm new to the wikipedia thing. I'm stmbling through what to do. I surfed into te page and I was irritated at how uneven it was. Gcherrits (talk) 03:09, 18 March 2011 (UTC)Glenn

You've just raised the issue of the edited videos on the Talk page. Why don't you let it play out? There is already material in the article about the editing of the ACORN and the NPR videos. The questions seem to be whether the word "deceptively" should be used and whether this belongs in the lead or only in the body. Why don't you try to flesh out these issues in a focused way on the Talk page? Currently, in the article itself it says the NPR videos were "heavily edited to present only one point of view" in the body, and it says the ACORN videos were "severely edited." So, you're not far off in terms of the article's presentation. You just have to hammer out the details with reliable sources (opinion pieces, even from the Washington Post are not the best sources for this sort of assertion). I'd steer clear of comments like "the right wing is watching this page." Makes you sound like a kook.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:26, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Horrible pencil edit thingy

Answered: Danger (talk) 00:08, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

I notice that a horrible pencil edit thingy has today appeared on every page adjacent to the section heading. Doubtless there is a page where people are complaining about it, but I can't seem to find it. Can anyone point me in its direction as I'd like to add my dissenting voice (although it's rather late in the day), or is there a way of switching it off? Thanks, Ericoides (talk) 10:09, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Very odd, it now seems to have disappeared. Ericoides (talk) 10:11, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2011-03-14/Technology report -- John of Reading (talk) 10:23, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Aha, thanks John of Reading. Ericoides (talk) 10:48, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Replacing an article with an improved version

Resolved: Danger (talk) 00:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

List of power stations in England (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

User:Stor-Börge (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

I have made some contributions to an alternative to the article List of power stations in England on Thryduulf's user page and think it is mature to replace the original article as a better and more encompassing format and content. Could a more experienced user please facilitate this?

Stor-Börge (talk) 18:44, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

There seems to be a broken bit near the bottom of the England section. Drop me a line (preferably on my user talk if you want fast action) when the page's completely ready, then I'll do the necessary page moving and page history merging for you. --Deryck C. 23:37, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Magnetic reconnection

Discussion moved: Moved to WP:FRINGE. Danger (talk) 00:09, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

There has recently been an edit war on the article on Magnetic reconnection, of which I was one participant. A section was added a week ago by another user entitled, "Criticism of the reconnection concept." I am a researcher in this field and have investigated magnetic reconnection in space, laboratory, and astrophysical plasmas for seven years. I can attest that the views presented in this section are held by an extremely small number of plasma physicists and astronomers, and have been discredited over the last few decades. I attempted to remove this section, but it was put back up several times. The person who posted this also had very long arguments on the talk page about this with others. It is my interpretation of events that this section was posted to put forth the author's unconventional views presented here. The tone of the author on the talk page is also a cause for concern, and suggests that compromise is unlikely. Any advice or assistance? -Spacehippy (talk) 02:40, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Any content in an article of this kind that is not strongly referenced, or cannot be strongly referenced, must be removed, whoever added them. That goes, above all, for the over long lead section.Kudpung (talk) 12:14, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
See also the WP:FRINGE noticeboard, where they specialize in this kind of thing. Jonathanwallace (talk) 04:39, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
Good idea, let's continue the discussion there. Spacehippy (talk) 04:47, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Ecological Art

Answered: Danger (talk) 00:10, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

RE: New Category-Ecological_art

please advice how to revert to today's published article since we are working with several art historians and curators of ecological art to develop the category accordingly. Curator emeritus John K. Grande has been involved in this process and we are in the process of editing references, etc...Thanks for your immediate attention to this issue. Nohra Corredor/ECOARTNET PUBLISHER — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ecoartnet (talkcontribs) 18:23, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

It seems, based on what you have said, that you have a notable conflict of interest writing about this subject. You can still contribute, but you might want to step back and make sure that you're being neutral in your discussions about ecological art. Anyways, I added a merge tag to the top of the article, and I would welcome you to discuss your opinions on the talk page for that merge. ~a (usertalkcontribs) 18:32, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


Answered: Danger (talk) 13:22, 27 March 2011 (UTC)


I would like to start editing, translating and making pages especially about actors and singers, or artists in general. I would like to work mainly with those two languages: italian and english, and translate pages from one page to another.

Is it possible, I mean, can I already start working on this?

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Portanza (talkcontribs) 22:11, 19 March 2011 (UTC) #

Well, put simply, the answer is yes! I have put some links on your talk page. You may find the WP:WikiProject Italy is a good place to look around and perhaps offer your services. I am sure that there are many articles on the Italian Wikipedia] that could be translated into English, and vice-versa. Welcome! Jezhotwells (talk) 01:16, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

edited article does not change

Answered: Danger (talk) 13:27, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Zambia Adventist University (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

i have edited this article (above named) but there is no change that is taking place. but i redirected an article "runsangu unversity" to the same page and it displays my changes why doesn't the original article display the changes?

luwii 00:36, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

The changes you have added to Zambia Adventist University were reverted by XLinkBot because you are a new user that is adding external links to Facebook. Facebook links not usually allowed unless that is the primary website that is used as the official website. In this case it does not appear to be the primary oficial website. You are also changing the name of the school without explanation. GB fan (talk) 00:41, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Gemma Atkinson 13Hrs

Answered: Danger (talk) 13:27, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

13Hrs Antony De Liseo

I was searching Gemma Atkinson's wiki-page and noticed there was no link to the movie she starred in '13Hrs'. It won BEST BRITISH FILM and BEST PRODUCTION at GRIMM Up North Film Festival and peaked at number 7 on the DVD new release chart and I thought, due to that, you'd have some more information on it as I really enjoyed the movie and the actors in it. It also stars Tom Felton (who plays Draco Malfoy in the HP series) and have noticed that there is nothing about 13Hrs on his page. I've heard they may be a sequel and would like to see if there's more info on that. I also am intruiged to find out more on Antony De Liseo (who plays Luke in 13Hrs) as he has a real talent and I have noticed him on TV a few times. There is a bit of info on him on his IMDB page but thought you may have some more. Also intruiged in the Actor Joshua Bowman who stars in 13hrs (alongside Atkinson and De Liseo) as Ive seen some coverage lately on him dating Miley Cyrus. Thanks for your help Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by LoganRMF (talkcontribs) 07:40, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia, the encyclopaedia that anyone can edit. I have place some useful links on your talk page. You can add information to the page, but you will need to source it from verifiable and reliable sources. In this context only casting details from IMDB are accepted as reliable, see WP:External links/Perennial websites#IMDb. Jezhotwells (talk) 12:37, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I am the source of my own bio

Resolved: Danger (talk) 13:28, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Peggy Ann Adler (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Since I am the source of my own bio, how can I have copied it from someone else? The bio I submitted was written by me and is entirely info from my life and resume. Please explain. Regards, Peggy Ann Adler — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bxzooo (talkcontribs) 09:23, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't see from the article that anyone has accused you of copying it from anywhere, though under Wikipedia rules there could be a potential copyright issue if you copied your own words from another web site. However, your article has been proposed for deletion because you haven't cited independent third party sources demonstrating your notability under Wikipedia rules. Not everyone, no matter how creative or locally prominent, is entitled to have a Wikipedia biography and writing your own is disfavored, see WP:AUTOBIO and WP:COI. Also see WP:AUTHOR and WP:ANYBIO for some more information on notability. The general belief at Wikipedia is that autobiographical articles usually have a lot of issues and that the best practice is to wait for someone else to write about you, which is likely to happen if you are notable. Sorry I couldn't give you better news, and I hope this helps you understand what is going on with the article. Jonathanwallace (talk) 11:24, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
The article history shows that an IP placed a copyright notice on the article and it remained there for 4 minutes. The IP also placed a warning on Bxzooo talk page about the problem. Ttonyb1 and I have both looked at the page, that the IP said the article was copied from. Neither of us see that it was copied from that page. You can safely disregard that message. As Jonathan says above the article will need some work or it will be deleted. The initial problem you need to overcome is sourcing. There are no sources in the article that allow anyone to verify the information in the article. Next is the problem of notability, this is normally judged by having significant coverage in reliable sources. The sources for the initial problem might fix this problem also if they provide significant coverage. If you need any help let me know. GB fan (talk) 12:42, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

advice on merger

Resolved: merged. Deryck C. 20:46, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Religious toleration (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Please compare the above article with Toleration. The latter is largely restricted to religious examples, and I have started to insert material at the former (to be expanded) which deals with toleration of gays, ethnic groups, political groups, etc. Both articles are now templated to indicate a merger proposal. I am aware of the merger proposal noticeboard, but it seems to be very sleepy. Eventually, I know that if no-one objects, I can boldly accomplish this myself by turning "Religious toleration" into a redirect, while pasting its content to "Toleration" (which is where I personally believe the surviving article should be). Is this acceptable, or is it better practice here to involve an admin, do a formal page move, etc? Thanks, Jonathanwallace (talk) 14:58, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

If the merger involves copying text from one article to another, copyright issues may need to be considered. However, unless deletion of anything (rather than just replacing one of the pages with a redirect) is necessary, a {{Copied}} should be sufficient. --Deryck C. 15:16, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick response. What are the copyright issues involved when one Wikipedia article is pasted to another? Jonathanwallace (talk) 15:19, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
An attempt to clarify what I am proposing: 1. Blank "Toleration" and paste the full text of "Religious Toleration" to it. 2. Blank "Religious Toleration" and turn the page into a redirect to "Toleration". I know that doing it in the other direction would be cleaner, involving blanking only one page and substituting a redirect, no pasting. However, I believe the surviving page should be "Toleration", as there is content to be added which deals with toleration in non-religious contexts. Another alternative: preserve "Religious Toleration" as is, delete all religious examples from "Toleration" while preserving a wiki-link to the other page, and expand "Toleration" to discuss only non-religious matters. But since most modern writers on the topic such as Michael Walzer deal with both types of toleration interchangeably, I think its better to have one article. Jonathanwallace (talk) 15:59, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
I suggest a history merge as an alternative.
  1. Move "Religious Toleration" into "Toleration", thereby deleting "Toleration".
  2. Restore all page history. The history of the final "Toleration" page will be interlaced with two different articles' histories, although that'll preserve all contribution records on both articles.
You need an admin to do both steps, and I'm happy to do it for you if that's what you want. --Deryck C. 17:35, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks so much for your offer, and I will take you up on it. I want to spend a couple days more improving and reviewing the articles, and will then post on your Talk page when ready. Jonathanwallace (talk) 21:57, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Regarding OTRS permission

Answered: Danger (talk) 13:29, 27 March 2011 (UTC)


I am assisting my colleague with posting his own images, he is the creator of those images, under dental articles. But, as soon as we added the images, those were nominated for deletion. So, we sent permissions to OTRS a few days ago, but it seems like no one has responded yet.

I am wondering if there is any other things I can do, or we should just wait for a few more days.

Thank you,

Jacob--Jacobleigh (talk) 15:22, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

OTRS is manned by volunteers like the rest of Wikipedoia and it can take several days, sometimes a week or two, for them to process e-mails. Even if the images are deleted in the meantime, OTRS will undelete them assuming that the permissions are appropriate. – ukexpat (talk) 17:03, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Gijsbertus Jacobus Sas

Answered: Danger (talk) 13:30, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Gijsbertus Jacobus Sas (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Good Morning,

I'm not sure how to go about this but I happened to come accrtoss an article about my grandfather - Gijsbertus Jacobus Sas. Toward the end of the article it list his rank at the time of pension as Lt. Colonel. The article correctly states that he died in a plane crash in Scotland but the article implies that he was retired (pension). At the time he was on active duty and was serving as the Dutch military attache in Washington DC. His rank was Major General (Generaal Majoor) at the time of his death. His also had one son, Gijsbertus Jacobus Sas, born 29 July 1918 died 15 November 1982.

One thing the article doesn't reference is that his efforts made it possible for Queen Wilhelmina to escape to England after Germany invaded the Netherlands on 10 May 1940. The article doesn't state that Sas' credibility was seriously in question because Hitler had cancelled the invasion 22 times prior to 10 May 1940. Even after Sas was re-united with Reijnders, the General Staff and Queen Wilhelmina in London in June-July of 1940, there was great emnity between Reijnders and Sas and the General Staff. After that Sas traveled to Canada to train Dutch forces and was promnoted and assigned to Washington DC as the military attache as a reward for his sevice during the war.

I will gladly provide citations as requested. My email address is --redacted--

Thanks, Guy Sas —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:33, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the highly interesting information about your grandfather. Wikipedia articles must be based on reliable secondary sources so we would need to be able to refer the information you are suggesting to a newspaper, book etc. in order to include it in his article. Wikipedia cannot rely on personal recollections or knowledge of family members because we have no mechanism for verifying that kind of information. If you have sources, please feel free to post them at the article's Talk page--and if not, perhaps your post will inspire some of the editors here to do some research on your grandfather. I will also post some links on your user talk page which may help in future efforts to edit Wikipedia. Jonathanwallace (talk) 15:43, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Is this an example of the medical advice we don't give?

Resolved: Danger (talk) 13:22, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Maybe it's the style, or the added external link, but I'm not comfortable with these recent additions to Azithromycin. As a layman I'm reluctant to revert edits that are not obvious spam from medical articles, so I'd like some advice on this and similar edits. Thanks, CliffC (talk) 17:52, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed the sections you listed above. They were completely unsourced and they do appear to be giving medical advice. I do not think it is appropriate for the article. GB fan (talk) 18:14, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Good call, completely inappropriate material, sourced or not. – ukexpat (talk) 18:24, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Resolving multiple reverts

Answered: Danger (talk) 13:31, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

On the Time_Matters topic, another editor keeps reverting the deletion of his addition of irrelevant links. The External Link and Reference are to a competing product and violate NPOV.

I posted the following on his Talk page: Please post a rationale for including HoudiniEsq as an External Link and Reference on the Time_Matters page. You should provide an Edit Summary explaining the reason for reverting the deletion. When I deleted your links, I noted in the Edit Summary that the links were removed because of Neutral Point of View. To elaborate on that, one would need to include links to all competing products to be consistent with including the link to HoudiniEsq. In other articles, links to all competing products are not found.

The other editor has not posted anything in Edit Summary to explain the basis for his edits. What should I say to this editor? At what point should I go further in the Dispute Resolution process? Thank you. Wells50 (talk) 17:57, 21 March 2011 (UTC)Wells50

I think your reverts were entirely appropriate. If the IP editor insists on re-adding them ignoring your talk page message, it's a matter for WP:3RR or WP:ANI. – ukexpat (talk) 18:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Considering that the IP is adding the EL to other pages which have absolutely no reason to have the link (such as Docket_(court), it's apparent that the editor is simply spamming every relevant article possible, and the link adds no value to any of the articles in question, so I would certainly say he's not attempting to improve the articles. - SudoGhost (talk) 20:58, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

A State of Being

Answered: Danger (talk) 13:32, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

I Have created a new page with reference to the above, i would like to know how i post it to the Encyclopedia, does it have to be passed before it is seen ???

YA I NO TV — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yaino TV (talkcontribs) 22:14, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Your article does not appear to be about a subject that is considerd notable according to WIkipedia standards. I would suggest you read about how we determine is a film is notable, Wikipedia:Notability (films). The biggest problem is that your article has no sources. You will need to show that there has been significant coverage in reliable sources. Also you might want to read about our guideline on Conflicts of Interst, Wikipedia:Conflict of interest as you appear to have one. If you have any questions please ask. GB fan (talk) 22:46, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

(resolved) Article name changed and many other edits -- how to undo?

Resolved: Danger (talk) 13:33, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

The article Super (2010 film) was renamed Super (2011 film) by Bencey (talk · contribs · count · logs · page moves · block log), without any discussion. He then proceeded to make many changes to other pages to reflect this change. However, as the article itself says, the film was released in 2010. I have requested a move to change the name back, as it seems I can't just revert it, but wonder if an admin can bulk revert all this at once. I'd rather not chase him around and undo every edit by hand, quite likely starting an edit war in the process. Barsoomian (talk) 03:09, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

I just looked at Bencey's talk page, which is blank, but there is a lot of history there regarding similar precipitate edits. Barsoomian (talk) 03:36, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (films)#Between films of the same name says: "add the year of its first public release (excluding film festival screenings)". According to the article, the 2010 screening was only the film festival TIFF. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:00, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
A cursory glance at two random sources listed (IMDB and rottentomatoes) both have the release date listed as April 1, 2011, Film Festival screenings do not apply, as explained above. - SudoGhost (talk) 04:20, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

OK, so 2011 it is. Would have been nice if the editor had bothered to mention this on the Discussion page. Barsoomian (talk) 05:05, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

question regsrding the 4 different types of markets (primary, secondary, third and fourth)

Answered: Danger (talk) 13:36, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello, —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:55, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

You haven't made your question very clear. I suggest you start at the article Primary market, which has links to articles about the other kinds of market that you mention. -- John of Reading (talk) 11:59, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello,far from being an expert I have jusst read with much interest your 4 definitions quoted above and i would like you to explain what you gain or lose,when enterind a type of market or/and leaving another, what are the risks associated, etc. Of course you can also give the links i can follow to access such answers. Thanks and regards.

<<email redacted>> (Paulette Emmanuelle Essame) —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:06, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm no expert either! I can only suggest you look in those articles and in the articles and external links that they refer to. You could also start at the article Financial risk.
Note that no-one at Wikipedia will give you detailed investment advice; please see the Risk disclaimer. -- John of Reading (talk) 12:38, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
But also note that we will not do your school or college homework for you. – ukexpat (talk) 13:47, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Serena Harragin

Resolved: Article deleted. Danger (talk) 18:08, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

See Article on Serena Harragin...

This biography was written by Serena Harragin and it is completely false.

I tried to put a disclaimer on the article, but it was "almost instantly rejected."

Either a disclaimer is needed, or the false article needs to be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Acctatwiki (talkcontribs) 15:30, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Do you have any references that contradict the information provided? - SudoGhost (talk) 15:45, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Serena Harragin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

The biography of Serena Harragin was written by her to get herself a job.

Most of it is false.

Please either put a disclaimer on it or remove it.

Acctatwiki (talk) 15:58, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

I have placed a tag on the article for deletion, because the article is not notable. However, please do not edit the article by changing information with information you 'feel' is more appropriate, unless you can provide appropriate sources that reflect this. - SudoGhost (talk) 16:03, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of 'Coffee Party Progressives' page

Answered: Danger (talk) 18:11, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello -

The page for 'Coffee Party Progressives' has been a target of a speedy delete:

10:08, 23 March 2011 RHaworth (talk | contribs) deleted "Coffee Party Progressives" ‎ (Multiple reasons: Speedy deletion criteria G11, A7)

I don't believe that these codes are appropriate to this article. Additionally the editor did not give time for improvement of the article.

This organization, Coffee Party Progressives, does in fact exist, being a smaller informational/activist group similar to "Move On" but formed in reaction to the "Tea Party" in the U.S. I have been a member for many months now, and heard about this deletion this morning.

It is disturbing that the editor used the "speedy delete" option without appearing to do doing any specific research. Does this person only value what he has personally heard of, or perhaps what he politically agrees with? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:37, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

While I don't drink coffee, I am in deep political sympathy with the goals of the CPP movement. Nonetheless, I agree with the speedy deletion, as the "article" was quite promotional, and did nothing to assert the actual notability of the organization. Not every organization with a worthwhile goal is notable enough to have its own Wikipedia article. --Orange Mike | Talk 12:52, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

The editor removing the page seems to be active on the "Coffee Party USA" page, which has had a bit of "bad blood" with Coffee Party Progressives. The speedy deletion and assertions of lack of notability are thus questionable.

If the article needs to be rewritten, that should be the comment. --the original poster — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

What are you talking about? Is this about something that RHaworth does elsewhere, or something Haworth does in Wikipedia? Who or what in "Coffee Party USA" is feuding with the other group? --Orange Mike | Talk 15:00, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

can't think of a good name to move these to

Resolved: Danger (talk) 18:10, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

We have a series of article such as List of war films based on books (1927–1945). At first glance, I'd think the films were released 1927–1945, or maybe the books they were based on were published then. Turns out the wars took place 1927–1945. That is completely opaque. Any ideas on where to move these? "List of book-based films on wars 1927–1945", maybe. Still not very good, though. — kwami (talk) 23:30, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

"List of films based on books about wars occurring 1927-1945"? Wow, its a four-intersection list. Jonathanwallace (talk) 00:52, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
Well, "A list of war films based on books about wars that took place between 1927 and 1945" is a bit long, how about "List of war film based on books (1927-1945 wars)"? - SudoGhost (talk) 01:00, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
Good enough! — kwami (talk) 07:42, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Feminist movement page- UN HDR statistics

Resolved: Resolved on talk. Danger (talk) 18:12, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Feminist movement (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

The user, Aronoel, has mistakenly interpreted the UN HDR 2004 report, see page 233, to mean that women in selected developing countries work 20% more than men. In the same data Aronoel has interpreted the data to mean that women work 5% more than men in OECD countries. The actual numbers should be 9%, and 2.42%, according to basic calculations of percentage. Please see the WikiProject_Feminism talk page to see my attempt to explain this to Aronoel, despite them changing it back to incorrect percentages. The way that they have presented the data is false and does not reflect the data. It inflates the amount of work that women do more than men, from 9 to 20%, and from 2.42 to 5%, respectively. (talk) 00:08, 25 March 2011 (UTC) talk:WikiProject_Feminism#Request_to_remove_unverified_statistic—Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:03, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

So, why are you not discussing this on the article talk page? Jezhotwells (talk) 00:38, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Page move

Answered: Danger (talk) 18:09, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I have created an article with the heading "User:Hamptonhouse/First women to run around australia"

How do i change the heading to First women to run around australia

thanks for your assistance Hamptonhouse (talk) 02:48, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

You would click the "move" tab and fill in the title to which you wanted to move, if the page were ready for that. I don't think it is ready though; it needs some reliable sources to have some coverage of the subject, in order to meet our notability guideline. Major newspapers might be a good place to look, or perhaps a TV news show? --AndrewHowse (talk) 03:11, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
I have moved First women to run around australia to Deborah De Williams because the article is really about just one woman, not several women. – ukexpat (talk) 20:01, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Krishna is not a Hindu Deity

Answered: Danger (talk) 18:09, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

The article on Krishna opens with the following statement: This article is about the Hindu deity.

The term Hindu is nowhere to be found in the Vedic literatures of India. A more appropriate term would be Vaishnava Deity. The term Hindu derives from the name of the River Sindhu, and was invented by Islamic invaders to refer to the people east of the Sindhu River.

Since Wikipedia is an open source encyclopedia dedicated to presenting the truth, I implore your editors to illumine all your uses of the term Hindu with reference to more appropriate terminology and in general to inform the reading public that this term Hindu is both offensive and inaccurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rozenthalm (talkcontribs) 02:53, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

You need a source showing it's offensive. It's the normal English term. — kwami (talk) 07:41, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
The request is kind of hard to square with this Google books search of the specific phrase hindu god krishna in quotes, which returns over 1,500 book results.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 16:17, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Table issues

Being dealt with at the Help Desk. – ukexpat (talk) 18:19, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hello, I seem to have some issues with tables again. In the article List of colleges affiliated to Visvesvaraya Technological University, which I am expanding completely, the table goes out of the normal page width. I've experimented by removing some sections, but it still doesn't seem right. Would be grateful for any help. Regards, Yes Michael?Talk 15:10, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article about the author Aleksandar Obradovic

Answered: Danger (talk) 00:55, 30 March 2011 (UTC)


Dear colleagues, a few weeks ago I wrote an article about a writer and painter Aleksandar Obradovic and put it on your portal to be reviewed from one of the administrators. Cause I didn't knew the conditions necessary for publication of articles, I repeatedly changed the article, but after the precise instructions that I received from the administrator named Chzz, I have attempted to set and credible source of information or a link after each data. So, after the date of birth, I put a link to the municipality in which the author was born and where you can check the information, after the information about his studies - the link to faculty where he studied, after the data about his first employment - link to the company Radio Television Sarajevo and after citing the published book - ISBN numbers and a link to the National Library of Serbia, where it is possible to check the information etc. You must bear in mind that all these sources are not on the technological level as in America, so if you want to prove some of information, it is necessary to contact the institution by phone or by mail. In the countries of former Yugoslavia is not possible to establish another form of data verification, because the computer system is still based on undeveloped technology. Newspaper articles from the past can not be obtained through web pages or internet. Few days ago I spoke with Aleksandar Obradovic and I wrote the information about his activities in Sarajevo, Frankfurt and Munich. If I, for example, cite the fact that the author worked as a cook in Frankfurt and at the same time as a source of reference I list an address and telephone number of the restaurant "Schwarzwald Cafe, " that means that the restaurant doesn't have its own web page and that the only way to verify information is via phone call. At the end of this letter I want to say that for such an article don't exist another credible sources of information and if you want to have as a collaborator somebody who has over twenty years of journalistic experience, you should give a little more detailed look at the mentioned article and accept my arguments about data sources. Yours sincerely Nobelovac (talk) 09:47, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Please see our reliable source rules for a better understanding of what can be used in Wikipedia. Articles cannot be based on your personal knowledge or on interviews with the subject, see WP:BLPPRIMARY. They can, however, be based on foreign language and off-line sources, so the fact that Yugoslavian newspapers don't have websites is not really an obstacle. References must be in-line, after each statement, using ref tags. Click edit to see how I did this [5], or see WP:REF. The "reflist" tag is then placed at the bottom of the article and your footnotes automatically show up under it as a result (you don't need to type them there as you apparently did in the revised article). I also note we already have a bio for someone named Aleksandar Obradovic who seems to be unrelated to your subject, so if your article is moved to article space it will need to be named something like "Aleksandar Obradovic (author)" to differentiate it. Jonathanwallace (talk) 11:34, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Exclusion of Victor "Transport" Maghakian from the list of Historically Notable Marines.

Answered: --AndrewHowse (talk) 15:39, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I have attempted several times to include Victor "Transport" Maghakian on the list of Historically Notable Marines. However, it is being removed without clear or neutral explanation as to why. Victor Maghakian (aka Ear Banger Maghakian) is the first Marine ever in history to have his blood shed by a Japanese sword in China long before the commencement of WWII. He is also one of the most decorated Marines in WWII history and one of the first of the Carlson Raiders. The United States even made a movie about him called Gung-Ho! Tashjian, James H. The Armenian American in World War II. Boston: Harenik Association, 1952, p. 34-43. Apparently, the Marine Corps wants to exclude him on the list because of these historical factors to include his last name. This cannot be tolerated as it violates the neutrality requirements of Wikipedia. Monte Melkonian (talk) 21:53, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

See below reply at #Exclusion of Harry "K-Barr" Kizirian from the list of Historically Notable Marines. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:42, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

You state see below, however, you have deleted the inquiry. Why have you done that? Is it because his name ends in IAN? Semper Fi Macbeth.Monte Melkonian (talk) 01:27, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I haven't deleted anything. The link I made #Exclusion of Harry "K-Barr" Kizirian from the list of Historically Notable Marines. goes right to your similar post below and my reply to it. I didn't want to repeat the same reply here. Please see Wikipedia:Assume good faith and stop with your conspiracy nonsense. Nobody is out to get people with Armenian names ot whatever you are hinting at. You appear to have strong feelings about Armenians but try to keep objective. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:24, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Exclusion of Harry "K-Barr" Kizirian from the list of Historically Notable Marines.

Answered: --AndrewHowse (talk) 15:40, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I have attempted several times to include Harry "K-Barr" Kizirian on the list of Historically Notable Marines. However, it is being removed without clear or neutral explanation as to why. Harry is the first Marine ever in history to have the Marine Corps bayonet named after him the "K-Barr." He is also one of the most decorated Marines in WWII history and one of the first Marines ever to be awarded the Rhode Island Cross for valor. Tashjian, James H. The Armenian American in World War II. Boston: Harenik Association, 1952, p. 108-113.Monte Melkonian (talk) 22:50, 27 March 2011 (UTC) Apparently, the Marine Corps wants to exclude him on the list because of these historical factors and because of his last name. This cannot be tolerated as it violates the neutrality requirements of Wikipedia. Monte Melkonian (talk) 22:03, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

My suggestion would be to start an article on him first. An established article would make it easier to show that he belongs on the list. GB fan (talk) 23:27, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
I think you are jumping to conclusions because you don't yet know how Wikipedia operates. Many lists in Wikipedia are mainly or only intended for subjects which already have their own Wikipedia article. The list can link to the article and most details about the subject can be mentioned in the article and omitted from the list. For example, Lewis Burwell "Chesty" Puller has a detailed article at Chesty Puller. List of historically notable United States Marines formerly had a few red links (meaning entries without their own article) but they were recently removed. The people you want to add to the list don't appear to have their own article. Victor "Transport" Maghakian and Harry "The Killer" Kizirian, or any variation of their names, are currenly red links. You are welcome to write such articles if they satisfy Wikipedia:Notability (people). See Wikipedia:Your first article. After creating articles, you can add the subjects to the list with a link to their article. Wikipedia editors are volunteers from around the world and there may not be others currently willing to put in the work to write articles about these people. That does not by itself imply they are considered non-notable (as in Wikipedia:Notability (people)) by Wikipedia. If an article is created but later deleted for failing Wikipedia:Notability (people) then it may be a sign they are not considered notable. Anybody can edit Wikipedia. Somebody editing articles about the United States Marine Corps or other topics may or may not have any affiliation with it. If they do then they should watch out for Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:40, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

So, as I understand it, you have not included these Marines because they don't have their own articles. That is extremely disturbing as an American. Why hasn't the Marine Corps done articles for these individuals as they did for some other Marines like Chesty? Monte Melkonian (talk) 01:08, 28 March 2011 (UTC) Since you are a volunteer, why haven't you done an article on these extremely notable Marines? What is the problem? Based on these, why shouldn't sharpen my K-Barr? Monte Melkonian (talk) 01:08, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Why do you think the Marine Corps has created articles for any Marine? The articles on those Marines were probably started by someone interested in the person, probably not by the Corps itself. Since we are all volunteers, we work on things that interest us. You are a volunteer also and you can start the articles on those Marines since you have an interest in them. Here is a link to a good page about creating your first article, WP:FIRST and here is a wizard that will help you create the article, Wikipedia:Article wizard. GB fan (talk) 01:18, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
(ec)You answered your own question there, as a volunteer, creating articles is entirely voluntary - no editor is required to create any articles, neither are the Marine Corps (in fact they would be advised not to, as they would have a conflict of interest). There are thousands if not millions of "notable" subjects out there that do not yet have Wikipedia articles, the simple reason they do not exist is that no one has gotten around to creating them. You may need understand that this is an "English" (language) encyclopedia, not an "American" encyclopedia - it has no affiliations or obligations, patriotic or otherwise. As PrimeHunter pointed out, you are continuing to jump to conclusions because you don't yet know how Wikipedia operates. Rehevkor 01:20, 28 March 2011 (UTC) I am
sorry you feel that way. But, I think I have strong evidence of these facts. Why have these heros been eliminated from your collective memories if any? The other thing I noticed on the film credits by doing a search on the movie "Gung-Ho!", Victor's name is not mentioned or erroneously listed as some other person. The other thing I noticed, is that Netflix has the only credit score for Victor. These are some extremely disturbing coincidences, if you will. Maybe some English speaking American, such as the Marine Corps, can volunteer to put this man's name where it rightfully belongs. Don't you? Monte Melkonian (talk) 01:36, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
You have the ability to do it, so instead of complaining here, write the articles and fix the articles you have a problem with. The basic requirement is that your changes are refereenced to reliable sources. GB fan (talk) 01:56, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
I am Danish and have no military affiliation and limited interest in the US Marine Corps although I recently enjoyed watching The Pacific. If I increase the around 3.6 million current Wikipedia articles then it will be about other things of more interest to me, for example prime numbers (the reason for my username in case you thought it was something more dramatic). These people may be legendary to you but it's a big world. I and most others have never heard of Victor "Transport" Maghakian and Harry "The Killer" Kizirian. How many Danish soldiers can you name? I can actually name many American for a country on another continent. These two may be notable but if you do start writing articles then note that Wikipedia is not a memorial. Millions of soldiers around the world have fought heroically but relatively few of them satisfy Wikipedia guidelines. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:44, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
You seem to implying there is some sort of conspiracy here. Good luck with that. I am British born and raised and have little interest in creating these articles for you. Best way to fix this "issue" is to do so yourself, as others have suggested. Rehevkor 03:23, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't think I used the word conspiracy. I rather use names and facts. Particularly, that cursed name Macbeth. If the facts lead you to treachery, then don't be surprised if Macbeth sticks Harry's K-BARR (affectionately named after him as the Angel of Death) into you. If you ever see the Marine Corps silent drill team, and Harry's K-Barr slices an ear off, then you will know who is cursed. Monte Melkonian (talk) 17:03, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

If you are interested in prime numbers and solving mathematical problems, then you should have figured out by now in your theorem that I am a 1.5 er. Semper Fi Mac....beth.Monte Melkonian (talk) 18:40, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I think we're done here. I'm sure we all hope our advice will assist you now and in the future. Rehevkor 18:42, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Hey Monte Melkonian :) Just to summarise, before adding them to the list, it's best to create an article about them. The article might not exist yet for a number of reasons: either nobody has gotten around to creating it yet, or there might not be enough reliable sources to create an article about them. If you can find enough reliable sources, feel free to create the article, then re-add them to the list. If you need any more help, feel free to ask on my talk page [stwalkerster|talk] 21:44, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Disputes on Frot with Flyer22

Resolved: Things seem to have settled on the talk page. Danger (talk) 11:52, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Frot (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

I'm writing about a series of wide raging disputes that I have had with Flyer22 on the Frot (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) article. Basically, we disagree on where to place and what to call what is currently called the Comparisons to Anal Sex section of the article. This has all been documented at length on the article's talk page starting here; however, the dispute essentially centers around whether men's motivations and feelings about practicing frot should be considered factual content or perceptions and opinions and listed and labeled accordingly. Flyer22 supports the former, while I support the latter. My primary concern is that the main sources cited at length in the Debates subsection see the act of frot as a way of negotiation gay masculinity and therefore situate it in a network of perceptions about anal sex and its relation to masculinity, effeminacy, monogamy, promiscuity, and AIDS that are beyond the scope of the article.

My secondary concern is that, given my edit history, Flyer22 interprets the bulk of my edits to be supporting an "agenda" and continually claims that I am "hindering the article" or "tampering with the article". While little can be done to actualy alter Flyer22's opinion of my edits, I feel the repeated claims constitute a personal attack as they attack the contribution through the contributor and not the contribution alone.Mijopaalmc (talk) 07:28, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I've tried to wade through the Talk page debate between you and other editor, but it's heavy-going. I'll restrict my comments to two areas: your complaint about "personal attacks" and the article generally.
Flyer's comments are pretty tame as so-called attacks go on Wikipedia. Would it be better if she avoided words like "agenda": In an ideal world, yes, but in the context of the continuing debate, I'd hardly call it an attack.
As for the article, my view is it generally strays too far from the topic of frottage and into the political arena. The issue of the frot advocates and the anal sex defenders is a bit much. The article collapses into a gay political debate with health ramifications being thrown in to spice it up. Some examples of inappropriate material (in my view):
  • "Gay activist Bill Weintraub, who runs the sites and, is one of the more vocal frot advocates,and insists frottage is "hotter" because anal sex "cannot give you the same experience as direct genital-on-genital sex."
  • "However, frot can still transmit other sexually transmitted infections, such as HPV the viruses causing genital herpes and genital warts, either of which can lead to serious health problems." (the last phrase about serious health problems is medical speculation, even if it's true).
  • "Others who enjoy anal sex argue that gay men who dislike anal nonetheless have an obligation to defend the practice against purely homophobic attacks, especially so long as sodomy laws continue to be enforced in many countries." This sentence is in the Debates section, almost all of which I think should go.
The article should concentrate on a description of the sexual practice, its history, and how it's practiced. Also, any relation to other animals (no matter how amusing). The rest of it should either go or be summarized in a very brief section. It would be a topic for another article, or a redirect to another article.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:00, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for taking the time to wade through the wall-of-text that is the Frot talk page. While I understand that Flyer22's comments about my having an "agenda" that "hinders the article" or "tampering with the article" are very tame, I still feel that it obstructs consensus on the article, because it focuses on me as an editor rather than my edits themselves and poisons the well against me for other editors. Given the above, I called it a "personal attack" because WP:PA is summarized as "[c]omment on the content, not on the contributor]]. It may have been a tad hyperbolic, but it seems an appropriate short-hand.
As for you concerns about the article itself, the second one is actually factual, but it illustrates the difference between fact and perception-opinion that I feel pervades the Debates section. In particular, the CDC mentions:

Genital ulcer diseases include genital herpes, syphilis, and chancroid. These diseases are transmitted primarily through “skin-to-skin” contact from sores/ulcers or infected skin that looks normal. HPV infections are transmitted through contact with infected genital skin or mucosal surfaces/secretions. Genital ulcer diseases and HPV infection can occur in male or female genital areas that are covered (protected by the condom) as well as those areas that are not.[18]

It is therefore a fact that both HPV and HSV can be transmitted through frot. However, to go from facts about disease transmission to value judgments about sex acts is a statement of opinion based on a perception of what an acceptable relative risk is. The problem with the Debate section is that it is rife with such transformations of fact into opinion. In fact, the central issue that the Debates section discusses arises from the transfer of fact about the insertion of the penis in to the vagina or anus during sexual intercourse to perception-opinions about gender roles during intercourse and their translation to gender expression outside of intercourse and to interpersonal, sexual relationships. In particular, the frot advocates cited in the Debates section based their opinion of "analists[19]" or "gAys[20]" on the perception that a man who is anally penetrated is treating his anus like a vagina[21][22] and therefore becomes a effeminate and promiscuous "pussy boy[23]" or "man-khunt[24]". Mijopaalmc (talk) 19:26, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Moved section

The placement and content of the Debates subsection of the Comparison to anal sex section of the Frot article has been discussed at great length on the Frot talk page. While the current placement of the subsection is a compromise, I still question that general relevance of the subsection to the article. For instance, the general notability of the movements that provide the bulk of the source material for the Debates section has been questioned by the editor who maintains that the Debates section relevant to the article, when it was proposed that the Debates section be split off into separate articles, so I question the notability of the opinions themselves. Moreover, an editor on the Anal sex article has mentioned that the "frot vs anal sex" dichotomy gives undue weight to frot in the Anal sex article, which consequently lead to the rewording of the paragraph containing the information on frot in both the Anal sex article and the Frot article, so I question why the elaboration of opinions of questionable notability in the Debates subsection does not also give undue weight to those very opinions.

My edits and comments expressing concern about the general tenor of the Debates subsection and its appropriateness to the article have been met with suspicion and hostility on the part of the regular editors of the article, so I wondering if I could get several fresh pair of eyes to look at the article. Mijopaalmc (talk) 20:06, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Mijopaalmc tried to engage the community in a discussion above about this article. The last thing I said in the above section was to ask for other editors' comments, but, unfortunately, no one responded. I've looked at the Debates section in the article more closely, and my biggest problem with it is its citation to what, in other articles, would probably not be considered reliable sources. For example, one source, which is cited SIX times in the article is a fluff-opinion piece from Out magazine ([25]). A good example of the tone of the magazine article is the phrase, "but when talking with our friends about our sex lives". Yet, this type of article is used to support various assertions, including the opening sentence of the section: "A charge often leveled against male/male anal sex by frot advocates is that in comparison to the "equality of frot," anal sex tends to introduce a "non-equal" dimension to sex (i.e., one man is the "top" and the other is the "bottom")." Another source, used twice in this section and three times in the article ([26]), is a so-called "policy paper", an "essay" about anal sex that is clearly an opinion piece.
Part of the problem is the overall article itself because I'm not sure what it is supposed to be, a scientific article about frottage, a scientific article about health issues, a political article about gay sex? All of the above? Even articles like this should be held to the same standard as other, less controversial articles on Wikipedia.
Again, I'd really like to hear what other editors think.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:46, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
I replied above as well, and do not see why another section was started (other than urgency for support) when the above section covers all of this. Short note is: I and others disagree with Mijopaalmc. The discussion he mentions at the Anal sex article shows me proving an editor wrong and then us compromising. That editor also said that the in-depth information regarding frot vs. anal sex should be in the Frot the word "frot" has a lot more to do with the debate. And as for the sources, Out (magazine) or its website qualify as a WP:Reliable source. And as a reliable source on gay topics, it is quite appropriate to use for gay men's opinions about why they do not engage in anal sex. It is not as though it is only one gay male speaking for all gay men (and men who have sex with men in general). It encompasses some gay men's views about the practice of anal sex, by their own admission. Are we expecting scientific sources for gay men's opinions as to why they don't engage in anal sex or choose frot over anal sex? Only scientific or otherwise academic sources can be used, really? As for, I did not add that source to the article. I only moved it around to what it actually supports. I have expressed concerns about those sources (the frot advocate websites) as well, in the past on the talk page, and have recently removed some from the Debates section...along with their POV. And, yes, the Frot article is "all of the above"; nothing wrong with that. In fact, the three main sex articles -- Sexual intercourse, Anal sex, and Oral sex -- articles which I have either fixed up or partially fixed up, are "all of the above" just like that. Flyer22 (talk) 23:26, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Flyer22, I merged the two sections (your speculation as to why two sections were started is probably spot on) to keep this all in one place. Not perfectly linear, but it was the best that could be done to keep the dialogues together and approximately chronological. I don't think I've lost any of your comments.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:06, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Resuming initial section

Without responding to Mijopaalmc's most recent comments, I'd like to hear from other editors about the article overall. Obviously, if the Debates section - or at least most of the content of the Debates section - shouldn't be in the article in the first place, that would moot at least some of Mijopaalmc's concerns.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:39, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Mijopaalmc, the least you could have done is let me know that you started this discussion, so that I could have weighed in too. Doing this, reporting without alerting me of the discussion, is sneaky, I feel, and more reason that I do not trust most of your edits on the article. I still do not understand your problem with the views, other than that these views are expressed in the article. You act as though you are okay with the titles and then come here and complain about it? There is no need to have the word "Perceptions" in any title of the article. It is clear that these are the perceptions of men who have sex with men (MSM). You get all bent out of shape just because these men state health effects associated with anal sex, or how they feel about masculinity associated with anal sex. Well, that is the reason some MSM do not engage in anal sex, which should be mentioned in the article. I even made the masculinity issue more neutral by providing information from experts that a sex position/role among MSM is not necessarily indicative of one's masculinity or lack there of. These are MSM's opinions about frot and anal sex, and it is clear that these are their opinions. The title Comparison to anal sex is neutral, and has neutral subheadings (Preferences and Debates). Furthermore, two editors have agreed with my edits...feeling that I have actually improved the article.
And, Bbb23, thank you for weighing in. I do not feel that "the issue of the frot advocates and the anal sex defenders is a bit much." Choosing frot has largely been about an aversion to anal sex, and a lot of the time is about a preference for it over anal sex. It is not all or even mostly political. It's mostly about preferences, and the debates in relation to those preferences. The article does concentrate on a description of the sexual practice, its history, and how it's practiced; it just so happens that the sexual practice has a lot to do with preference for it over anal sex. Flyer22 (talk) 08:33, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
In my view, the Comparison to anal sex section, which includes the Preferences and Debates subsections, should be eliminated or drastically reduced. Much of it is political, many of the sources are from political advocates, and many of the sources would not be permitted in another article as they do not qualify as reliable. Your view, Flyer, that "the sexual practice has a lot to do with preference for it over anal sex" may have some validity, but mostly it is an outgrowth of the contraction of HIV. In any event, to permit literally a debate of the two sides to remain in the article makes no sense. Frot is not a political phenomenon but a sexual practice. If you want to do a short comparison between it and other sexual practices, fine. The rest opens up an inappropriate can of worms.
I should add that I don't necessarily agree with Mijopaalmc that the section is POV. Whether it's precisely balanced, if such a thing is possible, it's hard to say, but my objections to the section are on other grounds (as above).--Bbb23 (talk) 00:34, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
I disagree that the Comparison to anal sex section, which includes the Preferences and Debates subsections, should be eliminated or drastically reduced. Most of what is in the Preferences section is not political, and all the sources I added pass WP:Reliable sources. I am not understanding where you are drawing the conclusion that most of the information in total is political. Political about what? HIV/AIDS awareness? There is brief mention of that. Generally, the sections are about why some men who have sex with men prefer frot over anal sex and why. Why should there not be a section specifically about that? It is not my view that the sexual practice of frot has a lot to do with the preference for it over anal sex; it is evident through the reliable sources I added. This is also why the article has covered it for so long, and the talk page (past and recent discussions) is littered with the very topic. You may be thinking of frot as just the male-male practice of frottage, and, yes, the article is clear that it is about that as well, but the term "frot," at least by gay males, originated to specifically disparage anal sex. This is why a well-sourced section about frot vs. anal should be in the article (not to mention because some men actually do prefer it to anal sex for all the reasons mentioned in the Preferences section). The Anal sex article touches on it as well, with agreement on the talk page there that only a bit should be covered in that article...while the Frot article should cover the in-depth material on it. The term "frot" is also why Mijopaalmc tried to get the article title changed, and to have the article merged. Mijopaalmc feels that the term "frot" specifically signifies an anti-anal POV. And Mijopaalmc is right that "frot" has a lot to do with disparaging anal sex, from what I have read anyway. All I did was fix up a section that debated these stances, added reliable sources to it and made it worth something that should be mentioned in the article. Three editors agree with me regarding these edits, one even awarding me a barnstar. As for the unreliable sources (the frot advocate websites), I did not add those, and have recently removed them from the Debates section, along with their POV. Flyer22 (talk) 21:51, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
The lead of the article states: "The term "frot" was originally popularized by gay male activists who disparaged the practice of anal sex." There is no citation in the lead, and I see little support for it in the body of the article. Indeed, in the Debates section, the article states: "Others have at times disparaged frottage as a makeshift, second-rate form of male/male intimacy — something better left to inexperienced teenagers and "closeted" older men." The citation for that assertion is an article from Out magazine, which states a claim by a sex columnist that he "coined" the word "frot" because he thought that "frottage" meant any kind of "erotic rubbing", whereas "frot" "is always phallus-to-phallus sex." So, the entire thrust of the article appears to be based on an unsourced (even contradicted) premise.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:54, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
That was recently put into the lead, per this discussion: Talk:Frot#Should "often signifying de-emphasis on anal sex" be added to lede graf?. The infomation is delved into further in the Concept and etymology section, but the information is attributed to Bill Weintraub. This has been the biggest issue with the article -- the fact that "frot" has a lot to do with him; the term, not the act of male-male frottage. The columnist of the Out magazine source you cited is not claiming to have coined "frot." Bill Weintraub is. If the term "frot" comes up, Bill Weintraub is there being interviewed...and by reliable sources, such as this and this. These reliable sources were missing before I added them, and everything he stated was only attributed to his own websites. But as can be seen from the sources, he has gotten some attention from the gay media. Also seen in those sources is his stance on anal sex, which is also attributed to the men who take part in his websites. This, and men who simply prefer frottage to anal sex, is why I state that the term "frot" is not just about the practice of frottage and has a lot to do with anal sex, and why Mijopaalmc tried to get the article moved or merged (see Talk:Frot#Rename page "Frottage" and Talk:Frot#Is the term "Frot" POV?). I have extensively agreed with Mijopaalmc that the term "frot" is not notable outside of Weintraub and his followers (see Talk:Frot#Terms/synonyms for Frot), but the practice of male to male genital rubbing is. This has been the main issue with the article all along, whether the article should even exist under the title of Frot. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Frot first nomination). Flyer22 (talk) 00:21, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Why don't you two come and discuss the article on the talk page? Mijopaalmc (talk) 01:33, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm okay with discussing on the talk page, Mijopaalmc, of course. I was just answering Bbb23 here. What I don't understand is why no one from the LGBT WikiProject will weigh in on the article when we post something about it there. Heck, I don't understand why we hardly ever get any assistance in working out the issues regarding that article. I mean, I know it's not a highly-watched article, but when we go to places like RfC, you would think at least one outside editor would weigh in. Then again, RfC, and asking people of relevant WikiProjects to weigh in, hasn't been working that well in regards to any article I've been at these days.
My plan to balance out the Debates section, as I stated before, is to add more pro-anal sex information to it. To me, that is all it needs. I just haven't been able to find a lot of pro-anal sex information in regards to gay males/MSM...either on Google Books or Google Scholar. Every time I type in "gay males and anal sex" or some variation of that, I get information that not all gay males engage in anal sex, and some of the same information that is already in the Frot article. I wonder if I'll have to go to a local library or something to gather some pro-anal sex information for gay males/MSMs. Flyer22 (talk) 04:12, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Personal attack; slander; unwillingness to discuss; requested citation deemed frivolous.

Answered: Requester directed to other resources; this is too wide a conflict for this board. Danger (talk) 11:55, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

September 11 attacks (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

User:Pedant (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Another editor has called me a "known POV pusher" , "who has been banned before" (I have not been banned, nor am I a POV pusher, known or otherwise) I have attempted to discusss the article's content rationally but this editor (after I have requested 3 years ago that the editor refrain from attacking me on my talk page) The issue is over an unsourced assertion of fact, which the editor in question refuses to acknowledge, dismissing the request as if it were frivolity to request a cite for the assertion as fact.

I have at all times been unable to get a rational response from this editor, and since this has recurred 3 years after it first happened, this has ceased to be a case wherein it is possible to assume good faith. I consider this behavior to be chronic, rather than anomalous. Editor in question maintains a single-purpose account for the purpose of owning a single article. User:Pedant (talk) 09:38, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps other editors can figure out what you're saying and what it is you want, but I can't. You accuse another editor of calling you things, that the other editor has a single-purpose account, and that the problems with this editor began three years ago, yet you notably do not identify the editor or point to any of the pages that support the other editor's supposed remarks. Perhaps in another context this would be easier to figure out, but this in the context of a controversial article and your Talk page, which is one long battle (and doesn't have any of the quoted remarks in it). And even assuming you identified the editor, what do you seek on this forum? Do you want the editor blocked? Sanctioned in some other way? This isn't the forum for that kind of relief.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:07, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
This would probably be the editor where Pedant's reply was "Do not bugger sheep.". I'd advise not making such comments. Dougweller (talk) 15:51, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I saw that unfortunate comment, but I couldn't find any evidence of that editor making the kinds of comments Pedant is accusing someone of.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:16, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
My reply was in response to being told not to do something I don't do haven't done and never intended to do. It was an analogy, to advise Tarage not to bugger sheep, something I believe he has never done or intended to do. It was on my talk page where I reserve the right to employ more flamboyant speech than is appropriate for an encyclopedia, and particularly do not intend to be civil to someone engaging in a 3-year-long grudge against me since making similar forays against me and being rebuffed here. The editor, Tarage seems unable to or unwilling to understand that all assertions of fact, challenged or likely to be challenged need references, or are subject to removal. I requested a reference over a year ago for the assertion that 'hijackers intentionally flew the planes into the towers' (the word intentionally is the one in question) the only sources provided as references are quotes of the same text, but no source is given in the reference, so the reference is in effect a primary source. User:Pedant (talk) 23:59, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Now I am being attacked by the same author I banned from using my talk page years ago, and he's got some help from another admin, both of them making threats against me to frivolously impose sanctions on me without regard to process. User:Pedant (talk) 23:59, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
The personal attack in question: "The person who added it is a known POV pusher who has been banned before for it. Ignore, move on. --Tarage (talk) 04:46, 5 March 2011 (UTC)". This statement contains two false allegations. User:Pedant (talk) 23:59, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
As to what I am seeking, I want to edit Wikipedia without being slandered or threatened. I want references for assertions of fact that have been or are likely to be challenged. I'd like references to be verifiable references from reliable 3rd party sources. I was threatened by Beeblebrox with sanctions if I do not employ 'formal dispute resolution processes. I have been through the stages of dispute resolution to this point assume good faith; calm civil discussion; leaving a good edit summary for edits likely to be questioned; making small edits; attempting to reach consensus through discussion ... at this point the process fails in a flurry of "everyone knows it's intentional and no need for a cite"-type remarks; and threats of banning me for disruptive behavior, accompanied by stern warnings to engage in a more formal DR process. I hate to waste the time of other editors on one more bit of process, especially since the applicable consensus guideline is so clear, there is only one appropriate avenue available to a good editor: remove the assertion or provide a quality reference, from a reliable third party source. The policy is being ignored and I am being attacked for suggesting that we adhere to it. I am here asking for help because I have been threatened by User:Beeblebrox that not to do so will result in my being banned. Any more details you need to work on this? User:Pedant (talk) 23:59, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Aah, thanks, Doug was right. For anyone who is interested, the comment is here. So, now you've identified the editor and the comment (putting aside your references to "another admin" - Tarage is not an admin, and you don't identify the admin, although I have a fairly good idea who you mean), what is it you want?--Bbb23 (talk) 00:09, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
The admin is Beeblebrox. I assume he's an admin, since he's threatened me with sanctions. So the dispute is "I challenge an assertion of fact and maintain that all assertions of fact need references, if they are challenged or likely to be challenged. I have been described by Tarage as a 'known POV pusher' and Tarage says I have been 'banned for it' before. Both statements are untrue. I am being threatened with sanctions without being told what my 'crime' is. This has escalated from a single word edit, to attempted discussion, which was met with uncivil behavior and ridicule. No substantive discussion has ocurred. I bring the subject up and Beeblebrox closes it with unresolved questions still pending, stating that the discussion has finished." I would like some help resolving this dispute and eliminating the unwarranted personal attacks and persecutory behavior from both Tarage and Beeblebrox. If possible, I would like Tarage to be banned from editing the 911 attack articles, since he maintains a single purpose account which he is using to WP:OWN and control the content of one single article. He has been disruptive to all attempts at rational discussion on this subject, for over 3 years. User:Pedant (talk) 00:36, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

I suspect this is beyond the scope of this board.. I'd try suggestions at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution or WP:ANI. Rehevkor 01:04, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

+1 SJ+ 19:31, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

In the future it would be nice to notify me when I am being talked about. Otherwise it's all taking place behind my back. --Tarage (talk) 20:03, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

That goes for me too. I never said I would have you banned, I said you may be subject to sanctions as permitted by the ArbCom decision on 9/11 articles. I will repeat that for the billionth time here: Pursue proper channels of dispute resolution, or let it go. Ignore that advice and you can expect to be sanctioned. I also suspect this entire affair is far outside the intended scope of this page. You're not asking for assistance, you're asking that another user be subject to a topic ban. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:32, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Issue on a title of an article

Answered: Danger (talk) 11:44, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Good morning,

My name is Arnaud Masson deputy project scientist of the Cluster mission at the European Space Agency. There are two articles on wikipedia in English related to the European Space Agency/NASA Cluster mission.

One is "Cluster mission", the other one is "Cluster (spacecraft)". However, the Cluster mission article redirects to Cluster (spacecraft) one.

This does not make sense, I strongly suggest to do it the other way round. Namely that the "Cluster (spacecraft)" being redirected to the "Cluster mission" article.

I tried to do that but didn't do it the right way and don't know how to do it.

Thanks to help me out.

Dr. Arnaud Masson Deputy project scientist of the Cluster mission European Space Agency [details removed] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Masson75 (talkcontribs) 10:00, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Article names with something added in parentheses are very common in Wikipedia for disambiguation. The page history [27] shows that Cluster mission was moved to Cluster (spacecraft) per WP:SPACENAME. If you disagree with the move then you can request a new move. See Wikipedia:Requested moves. Never make a cut-and-paste move. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
I have removed your email addressto protect your privacy -- John of Reading (talk) 13:31, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Help Needed with Banana Equivalent Dose

Stale: Request unclear. Danger (talk) 12:01, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Banana Equivalent Dose (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Would love to have some savvy help with dispute resolution at Banana Equivalent Dose. There is some disagreement among editors as to the content of the article and placement of some of that content within the article. This is being worked out in the Discussion section, but I believe we may also be having some trouble with Disruptive Editing and/or a Sockpuppet which is making resolution needlessly difficult. Being a fairly new editor who is still learning the ropes, I'm having trouble finding and applying appropriate Wikipedia policies that can be applied to this situation. Thanks in advance. Belchfire (talk) 17:46, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

I think you haven't had more of a response for a couple of reasons. First, you aren't really specific about the problems. I looked at the article and can imagine you are complaining about issues of WP:WEIGHT, WP:NPOV, WP:FRINGE etc, but am not sure. Also, this is highly technical material which not all of us are competent to deal with (I am not). You may find people at the Fringe noticeboard who have more useful knowledge on this kind of issue. Jonathanwallace (talk) 20:12, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

I am able to edit but it disappears after some time

Answered: Danger (talk) 12:01, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Dear Sir,

I am trying to edit the page of Hubli(Industrial & Business development paragraph). We need to add our companies name (It is established in 1978 and which is India's no. 1 company 'Basant Floorings Pvt Ltd' in your listings and 'high quality concrete products mainly for landscaped areas'. I am able to edit but it disappears after some time.

Paragraph after editing will read as below:

Hubli is a developing industrial hub in Karnataka after Bangalore, with more than 1000 allied small and medium industries already established basically located in Gokul Road[4] & Tarihal[5] regions of Hubli. There are machine tools industries, electrical, steel furnitures, food products, rubber,leather industries,tanning industries and high quality concrete products mainly for landscaped areas. With the establishment of K.E.C, Bhoruka textile Mill, Universal Group of Industries, Microfinish Group, Apace Life Sciences, N.G.E.F, K.M.F, BDK Group of Industries[6],Murudeshwar Ceramics[7][8],Basant Floorings Pvt ltd. It has gathered momentum in industrial development. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:56, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

It is disappearing because someone is removing it, likely because Wikipedia is not supposed to be a business directory or a place to advertise companies. See the guidelines on conflict of interest, external linking and neutral point of view for details. - MrOllie (talk) 14:37, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Tarbut V' Torah (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Stale: Time heals all wounds? Danger (talk)

Please see this edit.
An SPA is reverting the article back to "his" version and remaining silent to requests for discussion both on the article talk page and on the user talk page. I'm tried requesting that this user be blocked until some discussion can be had as to the nature of the edits and concerns I raised on the talk page (POV, ADVERT, WEBHOST, OWN). For some reason my request was dropped from the RPP page so I may have posted in the wrong place. Perhaps someone can help me out with proceeding. For the moment I have not reverted his edit again so as to avoid warring. Thank you. Joe407 (talk) 14:21, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

English Defence League

Answered: Danger (talk) 12:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Ref The article English Defence League (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). The article described the EDL as 'Far right' and in several places as 'Hooligans'. Since both of these descriptions are entirely subjective, I edited them out of the article. Almost immediately, user undid my edits. Pete (talk) 14:38, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Actually, the description is fully sourced. If you still feel it is wrong, then the place for such discussion is Talk:English Defence League. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:50, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Agreed. User:Petesm has engaged in an edit warring procedure because he does not like what he reads and which has been the subject of a general consensus in the talk page for some time. The fact that what he doesn't like is correctly cited does not seem to bother him. Emeraude (talk) 17:12, 24 March 2011 (UTC)


Stale: Danger (talk) 19:22, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Led Zeppelin (edit | article | history | links | watch | logs) User talk:Revan ltrl (edit | user page | history | links | watch | logs)

I was recently blocked for 24 h because of my posting on another user's (LedRush) talk page without his consent; furthermore, I was recommended to act "as if he didn't exist" in the future (this recommendation by the administrator who blocked me, the whole thing punitive rather than preventive). We were in dispute on the Led Zeppelin talk page, and now, after my block has expired, and after I wanted to contribute to the same discussion, he keeps bringing up the dead issues we had, in a condescending discourse, reminding me of my block, both on the article's and my own talk page. He has done the following: he thinks I should stay away from the entire Led Zeppelin article because he thinks that it is synonymous with staying away from him; he makes up theories about why I post, believing I have a hidden agenda; he deletes posts I make on the talk page; he repeatedly posts on my talk page, both before and now after my initial block, imploring me to stay civil and stop attacks I haven't made. I have repeatedly told him to stay away from my talk page because I don't want anything to do with him. I have also reminded him several times that he keeps bringing up a dead issue. I feel that I have been mistreated and that he grants himself too much freedom with what he can accuse me of because of his better orientation with WP policy and regulation. Revan (talk) 15:53, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

It's curious how new sections keep getting added and dealt with while mine remains uncommented on. Revan (talk) 22:38, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

It looks like your queries have been answered on the article talk page. Your own incivility doesn't seem to be helping matters. Jezhotwells (talk) 23:50, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Insert weblinks for John M.Florescu page

Answered: Danger (talk) 12:04, 31 March 2011 (UTC)


I sent you a while ago a message regarding to add some links to complete the page for John M. Florescu - executive producer. If I send you the links to the materials- articles are you willing to add them as references ?

Thank you, Wait for an answer from you, Dana. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dana83art (talkcontribs) 15:59, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

John M. Florescu (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Yes, the article certainly needs more references. You can either add them to the article yourself (see WP:CITE for instructions), or dump them at the bottom of the article's talk page, which is Talk:John M. Florescu, for other editors to see.
Your use of the word "you" makes it look as if you think Wikipedia has some kind of editorial board, but in fact there are only volunteer editors - and you are one of them. So I can't promise that anyone will get round to improving the article if you don't do it. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:15, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Completing the wikipedia page


Regarding the previous message that I have send it to you - for example if I send you links, as this one, for example : 29, 1999

are you willing to make the connection to the link, please, for the readers ?

Thank you, Wish you a beautiful day, Wait for your answer, Dana Gliga. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dana83art (talkcontribs) 16:12, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

See my previous answer. (And yes, thank you, it's a beautiful day here in sunny Reading) -- John of Reading (talk) 16:17, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Rabbi Pinto - Assistance

Answered: Article getting eyes now. Danger (talk) 12:07, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Rabbi Pinto (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

A major feature story ran on Rabbi Pinto, the largest story ever written about him and the few editors who control the board didnt allow neutral entrees to be placed. Need assistance from curious non interested parties.

The article was syndicated and picked up by Globes a major Israeli paper, The Real Deal a major NYC real estate publication and Vos Iz Neas Religious news service but entire chunks of article werent included. Can we have new eyes please ?

Would suggest adding: "Considerable questions have risen regarding Pinto’s organizations finances. A report by a leading New York Jewish newspaper has revealed a “contrast between the rabbi’s lifestyle and his reputation for modest living, and questions about the rabbi’s image as a business guru when his own not-for-profit faces financial problems.” The Forward stated: “The business troubles at Mosdot Shuva Israel could be seen as ironic, given Rabbi Pinto’s reputation as an adviser to businessmen, and particularly to real estate brokers.” (talk) 13:24, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

The news was discussed at some length on the article's Talk page (including your comments), and a consensus was reached as to what should be added to the article, and it was then added, along with a citation to The Jewish Daily Forward you mention. It's problematic that you post your message here as if none of this happened. You apparently just disagree with the consensus. Happens to all of us.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:13, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Seems to be a little forum-shopping going on here. Versions of the above request have been posted at Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests, Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism, an RfC, and on four different user talk pages (all today).
Some related background is at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Babasalichai/Archive. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:02, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Request for Confirmation

Resolved: Danger (talk) 12:07, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Is is possible that one of you hear can confirm my name so that I can upload images to Wikipedia? If so that would be very helpful Michael Power 2011Michael Power 2011 22:52, 26 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michaela Power 2011 (talkcontribs)

Handling it at user's talk page. Amalthea 22:54, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

I want the full details and pictures of RAF Dhubalia during Second World War

Answered: Astray. Danger (talk) 12:15, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

I want the full details and pictures of RAF Dhubalia during Second World War. Please send this to my email --redacted-- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aritrac4 (talkcontribs) 20:16, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 4 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. Danger (talk) 03:21, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia, §1!

Resolved: Danger (talk) 12:17, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Someone should fix the message it gives you when you register. Sindragosa (talk) 16:15, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I believe this problem started March 18 and has now been fixed by [28] (but I'm not creating an account just to test it). The source code should contain $1 which is replaced by the username, but it accidentally contained §1 which is not replaced. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:50, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Change of format.

Answered: Wrong venue. Danger (talk) 11:33, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

You should not have quotes in the Word of the Day on Wiktionary. Saw the Homer quote. No. That's the last thing anyone needs is a confusing messeage. NO. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Selena George (talkcontribs) 04:31, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Wiktionary is a separate project from Wikipedia. To comment on the Word of the Day on Wiktionary, go here. --Danger (talk) 11:30, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

"Spring" appropriateness

Answered: Danger (talk) 19:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

I've felt for awhile that it would be useful to create a page listing the times that the term "spring" is used in a political context to referred to a period of political liberalization, ie, Prague Spring, Beijing Spring etc. I added these events onto the Spring (disambiguation) page but another user removed it saying, quite rightly, that no one searching for just the word "spring" would be interested in all of this. I just created a new article, Spring (political liberalization) which at this moment is merely the same listing of events I had put on the disamg page.

However, I am not quite sure if the article as it currently exist meets Wikipedia standards. I've just been upgraded to a Wikipedia:Autopatrolled status and do not want to jeopardize it by adding a non-encyclopedic article. Where should I put this listing? Combine into another article? Create a "spring" category? Open to suggestions.--Dudeman5685 (talk) 16:02, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Seems to me to lean towards original research, with a side order of WP:DICDEF. If no reliable source has written about the trope of "PLACENAME Spring", then it's probably WP:TOOSOON. --Orange Mike | Talk 16:18, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
It seems more to me like a list of particular usages at a notable intersection. If the sources didn't all use the word "Spring" it would be original research. A one para article which simply says that "(Placename) spring means a political liberalization" would be a dictionary definition. Since this is is a list pointing to articles with historical/political content we solve that. I think its a useful list and would keep it as is. Jonathanwallace (talk) 16:26, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
I did take the time to find sources for the use of "spring" in some of the more obscure cases, but thought that would be inappropriate in the original disamb page. I could add them now, but first i want o make sure the article is encyclopedic and won't be deleted soon. --Dudeman5685 (talk) 16:32, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
I think you are onto a list that is useful. You probably should consider having "List of" in the title or move the article to Spring (political term).(political term) The page is not clear as to what "political liberalization" means. Are the movements trying to liberate people from existing powers? Also, the page needs some context as to why "spring" is attached to other terms to create such political terms. Is it about movements against existing powers that have finally experienced a season of growth? Is it that they are moving forward by leaps and bounds against existing powers? Is the event so named because the movement against existing powers has returned to its original position after being pushed or pulled or pressed? Does it mean that the movements against existing powers finally developed into a distinctive entity? Are the movements acting like a natural flow of ground water to nurish the people in the face of existing powers? Does it mean that these movements finally are bouncing back after being pressed for so long? Does it mean the movements unexpectedly and suddenly have sprung into action against existing powers? Someone somewhere must have a writting on the topic and you might want to search Google books.political term spring In the mean time, you can find more such spring articles by looking through this search. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 12:49, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

New concept with no references

Answered: Danger (talk) 19:24, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

I developed a new concept concerning authors. Can I submit an article describing what it is and who practices it? I am the originator of the concept, so there are no other references available. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sharoncjenkins (talkcontribs) 01:25, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

No. See WP:OR. - David Biddulph (talk) 01:42, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Also see WP:N and WP:COI.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:51, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Origins of WIne

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Stale: The original poster's comments have been answered. The discussion is now going nowhere. Jezhotwells (talk) 17:52, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Wine (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

I have several times attempted to resolve or discuss the issue of the origins of wine. The page states that it originated in modern day Georgia without stating that the territory was previously ancient Armenia. Moreover, there is a lot of confusion and contradictions as to the origins of wine. I have attempted to remove the wild speculationsItalic text of Georgian paid scholars. Speculations should have no place in Wikpedia once the archeological evidence contradicts them. Yet, the editor insists on maintaining those speculations. The Georgian language is neither Indo-European nor Semetic therefore their language was not used to pass on the technology to other neighboring tribes. The editors are misleading readers to believe that some how this technology was passed on to other tribes by the Georgian language. I have several times attempted to include the latest archeological discovery in Armenia of a wine making operation dating back 6,100 years ago as the first origin which contradicts the speculative Georgian origins. However, it continues to be deleted because the editor believes that the "BBC" news report was "shady." Moreover, the editor continues to delete the Indo-European Armenian word for wine "Gini" (pronounced Keenee) without explanation. This conduct cannot be tolerated as it violates the neutrality requirements of Wikpedia. Monte Melkonian (talk) 22:43, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

I see the discussion on the Talk page between you and another editor where you trade barbs. Her comment about "shady Armenian sources" was absolutely uncalled for. Your comment about the devil and Stalin was over the top. In any event, although I know nothing about the subject, the BBC report was of a respectable study that has been published in archeological journals. See also this article from the National Geographic. To the extent there's an inconsistency among experts as to the earliest indication of wine-making sites (the Armenian site that apparently dates to some 6,000 years ago and the Georgian stuff that apparently dates to some 8,000 years ago), that's not up to her to draw a "mathematical" inclusion. In any event, I think her math is wrong and the article is wrong. The source that says 8,000 years ago does NOT say 8,000 BC, which would be 10,000 years ago. So, the article per the source is incorrect.
Your information is reliably sourced and should be included, in my view. You should both tone down the rhetoric.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:11, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
Stalin sent 25 million people to their deaths. Why shouldn't I put him with the likes of the other Devil Adolf Hitler? I'm sorry you feel that Stalin deserves higher stature. But, when Jesus Christ said "this is my blood," I am sure he wasn't talking about Stalin's Georgia. Monte Melkonian (talk) 01:13, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
I don't have any rhetoric. Stalin's deeds are historical facts. Please don't insult our intelligence. We lost a lot of our families because of Stalin. Monte Melkonian (talk) 01:41, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
Wow, someone tries to help you, and you respond with irrelevant, inflammatory comments? I wasn't saying anything about the acts of Stalin, the devil, or Hitler. On the Talk page of the article, in response to one of Comtesse's comments, you said, "Thus, I see a lot of misinformation and obfuscation from reality. Nobody is going to believe you. Not even the Devil himself Joseph Stalin." No one, including me, is addressing Stalin's deeds. You could have easily made your point without the last two quoted sentences. The proper thing for you to do at this point would be to apologize to me.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:21, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I think you need to apologize to me for stating that I went over the top when I said "Stalin is the Devil himself." You need to do a lot of research on Stalin and Georgia before you ask me to give you apologies. Don't you ever say that I went over the top regarding the Devil himself and Goergia's Stalin. Monte Melkonian (talk) 18:51, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Bbb23 is not saying anything about Stalin or his deeds or whether he is the Devil. He is commenting on your post [29] where you replied to another user ComtesseDeMingrelie by saying: "Nobody is going to believe you. Not even the Devil himself Joseph Stalin." Bbb23 (as I interpret him) is saying that it was over the top towards ComtesseDeMingrelie. I agree. There is no need to bring the Devil and Stalin into a discussion about the origins of wine. You could have made your point about ComtesseDeMingrelie without doing that. See also Godwin's law. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:16, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, and you interpret me correctly.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:55, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

You may also wish to consider reposting at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wine. The WP:WINE is an extremely active project run by knowledgeable wine historians and professionals, and you can be sure that they will look into it. --Kudpung (talk) 00:16, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm hardly an expert, but I did change the article to be 8,000 years ago rather than 8000 BC - per the source cited. I also noticed that there is already information in the article about the Armenian find from 6,100 years ago, although Monte's source appears to me to be better than the current cited sources. So, all that has to be done is to add the source(s) to that portion of the article. If further tweaking is necessary to make clear what is going on, that can also be done.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:20, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Please in the future, do not delete my comments about the Devil himself Joseph Stalin and his beloved Georgia. I find that kind of conduct deceptive and to be extremely insensitive and disingenuous. Be very careful with regards to glorifying Stalin's Georgia or Adolf Hitler's Germany. Monte Melkonian (talk) 01:22, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

This section is full of you and nobody else talking about Stalin. I haven't deleted anything and haven't noticed others deleting anything. Please stop your ridiculous accusations. Nobody here has said anything positive about Stalin or Hitler. Apparantly you assume that if people here don't want to discuss the evils of Stalin and Hitler with you then it must be because they glorify them. That is absurd. Wikipedia is not a forum and this is not the place to rant about Stalin. If you continue then I may actually start deleting it or collapse and close this thread as unproductive. It was supposed to be about the origins of wine. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:40, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Please stop making personal attacks. That no place in this forum. You either haven't followed the preceding comments, or , you have purposefully mischaracterized them. Monte Melkonian (talk) 04:59, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

We've provided our advice here, and this is not the place to continue an argument. Please either continue your discussion on an appropriate talk page or take it to a dispute resolution board. I will be shortly closing this thread. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:10, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Please stop making unfounded accusations. Moreover, I am not done yet with attempting to resolve this matter through discussion. Therefore, don't close the thread just yet. I will have to weigh all of your so-called suggestions with other neutral bodies to determine whether indeed it has been neutral. These discussions will have be considered on either arbitration or mediation to be determined relatively soon. Monte Melkonian (talk) 04:15, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I have a new term I want to include

Answered: There really isn't anything else to say here. Danger (talk) 19:32, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

There is no citation for it anywhere yet. I am uncertain how to proceed, as I feel this term is a genuine contribution to the ongloing endeavors here. New things require indentifying terms; as I have searched extensively for any referent term for the subject matter it is intended to describe, and found nothing, it is my hope this new term can be accepted without a citation available. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CinDan (talkcontribs) 06:26, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

No, I'm sorry, Wikipedia articles have to be on topics that have already been written about. Have a look at the guidelines on notability and neologisms. I've left you some other introductory links on your talk page. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:07, 29 March 2011 (UTC)


Answered: --AndrewHowse (talk) 15:41, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I have attempted several times to include Arman T. Manookian on the list of historical Marines. Inexplicably, the discussion and his name are being removed from the list without response. Just recently as I asked again regarding the discrepancy, it was moved all the way on the bottom of the list. Please see page 9, first center incomplete paragraph of this article. The editors of the Historical Marines page continue to violate the neutrality requirements of Wikpedia. Arman does indeed have his own Wikpedia page and no valid grounds for exclusion. Monte Melkonian (talk) 19:05, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

OK first of all calm down and don't SHOUT. This is not a conspiracy, but a community project where we work by consensus. Ranting on the list's talk page and here will not do any good, calm discussion is the way to proceed. I suspect that Manookian was removed from the list because you formatted the link incorrectly and your description of him was less than encyclopedic. The proper format for the link is [[Arman Manookian]], rendering as Arman Manookian. Note that Manookian is at List of notable United States Marines because his notability as an artist isn't directly related to his service, hence he does not fall within the inclusion criteria for the List of historically notable United States Marines. See the lead to that list: the Names in this list are notable for actions made as a Marine; individuals whose notability is unrelated to service in uniform can be found at List of United States Marines. – ukexpat (talk) 19:55, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
And note that new questions always go to the bottom of the page; that is where they are supposed to go. --Orange Mike | Talk 20:01, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

First of all, no one is shouting and no body at this point is alleging a conspiracy. That was an unreasonable and unprofessional characterization on your part perhaps to instigate a belligerent response. Secondly, your statements made no sense. Note that Arman is listed, as cited above, a Historically Notable Marine by the father of the Marine Corps History himself, Maj. Edwin N. McClellan. Please respond appropriately and succinctly to the questions posed and don't skirt the issue. If you try to skirt the issue, then it leads people to believe that indeed you are part of that so-called conspiracy as you stated. Semper Fi Mac..beth. Monte Melkonian (talk) 23:42, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I have read the Arman Manookian article, and I agree with his removal from the List of historically notable United States Marines. He is known for things outside of the Marine Corps, which is why he is part of the List of notable United States Marines, but his being clerk to Edwin North McClellan does not make him notable, as there are thousands of Marines that have served directly under historically notable marines, this does not make them notable as per Wikipedia guidelines. He did nothing during his time as a marine to warrant inclusion in the List of historically notable United States Marines. Names in this list are notable for actions made as a Marine; he is not notable for any such actions, and to include him would be against the list's guidelines. Please take a moment to read the list you are trying to include him in, and hopefully you will see why he is not and should not be included in this list. - SudoGhost (talk) 00:12, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

As I read the article cited above, and I quote from it: "As far as Marine Corps History is concerned, his name and fame are intertwined in it."Italic text[Emphasis Added] [p.9, first incomplete paragraph, Maj. Edwin N. Mclellan]. Are we reading the same articles? How do you justify this glaring inconsistency with your statements? Semper Fi Macbeth. Monte Melkonian (talk) 00:50, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I also want to note something that has become glaringly obvious. It seems to me that these so-called volunteers have a particular bias for Marines who volunteer for suicide missions or ended their lives in suicide and having their last names ending in IAN. Do you see the same pattern? I consider myself an expert at recognizing trends and patterns. Do you agree with my observations? Semper Fi Macbeth.Monte Melkonian (talk) 00:59, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, then in the context of the first Marine Corps Artist in Marine Corps History, what does this quote mean? "As far as Marine Corps History is concerned, his name and fame are intertwined in it."Italic text[Emphasis Added] [p.9, first incomplete paragraph, Maj. Edwin N. Mclellan]. Are we reading the same articles? How do you justify this glaring inconsistency with your statements? Semper Fi Macbeth. Monte Melkonian (talk) 00:50, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

It's stuff like this that makes you sound like a conspiracy theorist. I see no reason to suspect the editors of that list of anything you hint at. It's a short list of a few selected members of an organization where probably at least a million have served. Arman Manookian may have been a fine artist but he doesn't sound to me like an appropriate addition to such a short list. Edwin North McClellan isn't on the list himself, and his biography says "He was the first director of the Historical Section of Headquarters Marine Corps, a historigraphical organization now known as Marine Corps History Division." Manookian served under McClellan to make drawings and upon hearing of Manookian's death, McClellan said nice things of him as your reference shows. Speaking kindly of a recently deceased former subordinate (or anybody you knew) is very common and I think you put too much emphasis on it. On the Internet, SHOUTING refers to using all capitals for no reason (except possibly to draw attention) like your section heading. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Are you people English speaking Americans? Your bias is really inappropriate. As I read the article, The Genesis of The Marine Corps History was with Mclellan. Those weren't just merely nice words about Arman T. Manookian. Please read the article again. Moreover, please indicate your level of education with regards to English so I can determine your level of expertise on the subject of English, Art and History. Do you really think people will not read the article cited at page 9? I quote from it: "As far as Marine Corps History is concerned, his name and fame are intertwined in it."Italic text[Emphasis Added] Semper Fi Macbeth. Monte Melkonian (talk) 02:24, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

As an English speaking Englishman, I find your suggestions of bias inappropriate, and hardly indicative of a high level of education - or at least, of making proper use of it if you have one. You have been making endless allegations of 'bias' and 'conspiracies', with no evidence to back them up. You have ignored any attempt to explain to you how Wikipedia works, and what you can do to change things. Frankly, I think you are wasting your time here. Insulting people is rarely a successful means to encourage cooperation. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:34, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Englishmen, with regards to Marine Corps History, are truly inappropriate experts. Moreover, it is common practice in our Anglo American scheme of fairness to test the credentials of so-called experts opining on these pages. I am sorry you feel that somehow you have been offended. But, in America, we always ask for credentials and don't believe in biased opinions. In the future, please provide your credentials. I can tell you this, I majored in English as an English speaking American. So, is there an American Marine, with an English, Art and History out there who can tell me what this quote means? '"As far as Marine Corps History is concerned, his name and fame are intertwined in it."Italic text[Emphasis Added] Semper Fi Macbeth. Monte Melkonian

Monte Melkonian, I think you might have misunderstood how Wikipedia works. Since we're all essentially anonymous to one another, and we have no means of verifying most claims about credentials, we judge each other according to adherence to the norms and collectively-agreed-upon policies here. That's what leads to our emphasis on verifiability, for example. There's really no such thing as a credentialled expert here, only volunteers with respect for a calm and well-supported approach.
In this case, you've tried, several times, to add names to a list. Other people who have an interest in that list have explained the criteria they have agreed to use in defining that list. I imagine they would be happy to have a calm discussion about whether a particular candidate meets those criteria. They'd probably be willing to have a calm discussion about adjusting those criteria, too. But instead, you've accused people of having biases, without giving much evidence, and you give the impression of having assumed that other editors have acted in bad faith. That might not have been your intent, but I think you could be read that way.
You wrote "But, in America, we always ask for credentials" - but not on Wikipedia. May I suggest that you step back from this particular issue for a while, allow some time to become familiar with the way things are typically done here, and perhaps find another way to contribute? If you have questions about how to do that, then you're in an excellent place to ask. Best, --AndrewHowse (talk) 03:29, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Let me make a suggestion for you. Why don't you apply a little common sense and realize that your statements are totally out of line. If you don't have proper knowledge regarding Marine Corps History, you then should follow your own advice and stop giving baseless opinions as to what the speaker had in mind when he made the comment. So, my question remains the same. Namely, is there some one out there, applying the plain meaning of English, who can tell me what this quote means? '"As far as Marine Corps History is concerned, his name and fame are intertwined in it."Italic text[Emphasis Added] Semper Fi Macbeth. Monte Melkonian —Preceding undated comment added 04:50, 30 March 2011 (UTC).

How are my statements out of line? You came here, presumably for help, and that's what you've been offered by several editors. Yet you ignore our suggestions, and keep posting the same link and the same question, along with a changing selection of dismissive remarks. Deliberately or not, your behaviour is trolling and I don't think we're going to make any more progress here. --AndrewHowse (talk) 15:37, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
The context can be just as important as the literal meaning. This is an officer commenting on the work done for him about Marine Corps history by a recently deceased former subordinate. I wouldn't expect him to say: "He did shitty work. I'm glad he's dead and hope he will be forgotten." I think List of historically notable United States Marines is more intended for marines who made history than somebody who drew it afterwards without having been there. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:18, 30 March 2011 (UTC) I am deeply offended by that comment you just made. Moreover, by your comment, it is evident that you didn't read the article completely. McLellan made that statement long after he left the Marine Corps. His comments pertained to Arman being the first Marine Corps artist in Marine Corps History. It had nothing to do with his work after he had left the Marine Corps in which he received acclaim as well. So, my question remains the same. Namely, applying the plain meaning of English, what does this quote means? '"As far as Marine Corps History is concerned, his name and fame are intertwined in it."Italic text[Emphasis Added] Semper Fi Macbeth. Monte Melkonian (talk) 05:26, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
My analysis of that quote is "completely useless fluff--a throw-away comment, or at best an introductory sentence to some more-detailed statement that explains what it's talking about." By wikipedia policy, it is not for any editor to judge or try to determine what a source has in mind. WP:V says we must rely (and cite) other reliable sources to make that assessment, in the context with which they are speaking. Nobody is allowed to use "inside knowledge" of an organization to interpret sources--all interpretations are still subject to those same policies. Any decent scholar would know that "plain meaning of English" of an abstract sentence is irrelevant if there is no context. DMacks (talk) 05:20, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Well then, in the context of Arman being the first Official Marine Corps artist/illustrator for the Marine Corps Historical Department, what does this quote mean? "As far as Marine Corps History is concerned, his name and fame are intertwined in it."Italic text[Emphasis Added] Semper Fi Macbeth Monte Melkonian (talk) 05:30, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Moreover, there is no requirement of inside information as alluded to in your comment. The entire article that I keep citing to on Mclellan and Manookian speak for itself if one simply reads it carefully. The frustration is instigated when one does not read it carefully. Semper Fi Macbeth. Monte Melkonian (talk) 05:46, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Moved from top to follow convention Why do you have this discussion alleged to have been Answered when there is a pending question? Monte Melkonian (talk) 04:17, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

As has been explained already in this thread, new posts go at the bottom. Your question has been answered; you need to discuss this at the relevant talk page, as you have, and then read the answers. If you keep posting the same questions and ignoring the answers you get, then other editors will simply stop responding. You might not always get the answer you hope to get, but that's quite different from getting no answer. --AndrewHowse (talk) 13:52, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
And I think it needs to said that your tone and accusations are verging on disruptive. – ukexpat (talk) 14:33, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Please stop making unfounded accusations about tone. You are starting to look defensive and silly. Monte Melkonian (talk) 21:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Please answer the question posed above. Namely, in the context of Arman Manookian being the first Marine Corps artist/illustrator to ever do Marine Corps illustrations for Marine Corps History, please explain what the following quote means?: "As far as Marine Corps History is concerned, his name and fame are intertwined in it." Semper Fi Macbeth. Monte Melkonian (talk) 21:48, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Please help, I am in dispute with my article with user future perfect at sunrise

Discussion moved: Duplicate request. Danger (talk) 02:10, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

The article I have been working on is: Almine De Villiers, The Countess of Shannon (Almine Barton) I have been editing for almost two days to clean up my article reference links and citations. There had been someone editing whom never cited that they were editing in the user talk discussion so I was unaware that there was a editing dispute going on. On top of that, this user started jumping to conclusions and gave me a warning to be blocked if I didn't stop editing my own article...I was only trying to fix the issues stated in the tag of the article. Now I am getting threats of being blocked when there was no notice before I was editing the article. It took me this long to get all the links changed. Also the editor is taking out verifiable sections of the article and changing the name of the person in the article which totally changes the validity of the section in question which is articles about Almine Barton, not articles about De Villers. Please can someone mediate this. This person seems to be on a mission and I don't understand why they are working so hard to change my article when I have not been given a chance to fix the issues on top of the fact that this person is doing this edits without telling me. Then out of the blue, I get a warning! Please someone help! I have worked so hard on this article. I have spent hours upon hours researching and redoing the reference links to the article. Thank you. user:theonelife Theonelife (talk) 20:43, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

See response to second thread, below. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:40, 1 April 2011 (UTC)


Stale: Danger (talk) 17:27, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

We have a problem with these two pages. Dr Martin Cawley (Neautone), an American citizen, has recently purchased what he believes to be the "manor" of Newton-in-Bowland, Lancashire from a company called Manorial Auctioneers. Unfortunately, for Dr Cawley, the "manor" does not exist. All manorial rights relating to Newton-in-Bowland were subsumed into the Manor & Liberty of Slaidburn, West Bradford and Grindleton after 1399. The Manor of Slaidburn was bought by the Assheton family out of the Second Schedule of the 1885 Towneley Estates Act in 1950. The current Lord of the Manor and Liberty of Slaidburn, West Bradford and Grindleton is Thomas Assheton, nephew of the second Baron Clitheroe. Mr Assheton owns the manorial rights relating to Newton-in-Bowland.

This can be proved by reference to HM Land Registry documents from 1950, 1977, 2003 - copies of which are held by Ingham & Yorke, land agents to the Clitheroes. The claim made by statutory declaration upon the "manor" of Newton by Lord O'Hagan and his agent Manorial Auctioneers is a false one and the sale to Dr Cawley was invalid. Dr Cawley is a victim here but unfortunately, refuses to accept the facts. He will not look at the evidence or engage with the experts in the area.

Dr Cawley is repeatedly amending the Newton-in-Bowland and Slaidburn pages to demonstrate that he is "Lord of Newton". This is a misrepresentation and cannot be allowed to stand.

For the record, I have no relationship with the Assheton family. I am an academic and a historian of Bowland based at the University of Cambridge. I co-authored the definitive history of manorial Bowland with local historian CJ Spencer in 2010.

I need help to protect the integrity of the pages for Newton-in-Bowland and Slaidburn.

Manorial (talk) 13:11, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Just one quick note. Remember to link that pages you are asking help for: Newton-in-Bowland and Slaidburn. --Enric Naval (talk) 13:49, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Request for advice on COI and self-promotion issue with Mudflap article

Resolved: Somewhat resolved. Danger (talk) 17:29, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Mudflap (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

I'm fairly new to Wiki (and I apologize in advance for posting from an IP), but I somehow ended up on Seaphoto's user talk page and then wandered over to the Mudflap article and tried to help it, but the user Avgjoejohn316 is having some problems with COI and self-promotion issues and keeps putting what I would say is irrelevant and frankly false information in the article. Seaphoto got on this first and has posted on User_talk:Avgjoejohn316 as have I (along with the article's talk page and Seahoto's talk page), in an effort to resolve the problem, but seemingly to little effect. We've tried to explain the issues and I've tried to post evidence to refute Avgjoejohn's claims, but he just keeps on going. :)

I don't really know what to do at this point, and don't want to get into further reverts, so I thought I'd look for some advice. Could you look at the article and talk postings and see what you think? Thanks. (talk) 20:51, 27 March 2011 (UTC) Just removing misposted text from below request... (talk) 22:05, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

I think we just have to see how this plays out. Not much has happened on this today, as far as I can tell, so let's keep an eye on the situation. Danger (talk) 03:53, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
Well, I've put this page on my watchlist, but there's not much else to do. --Danger (talk) 17:29, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

edits of the page ebony

Resolved: Per requester. Danger (talk) 17:45, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Hello, my name is Hannah. I play the double bass (upright bass, contrabass, ect.) in my high school orchestra as well as in the school jazz band. I've been looking into getting a new bow, of a better quality than the student one I'm currently using. Thus I have looked into the materials and craftsmanship that go into making a decent bow. So I looked up the original bow(music) page, the pernambuco wood page, and finally the ebony page. I noticed that on the bow page stated that, "For the frog, which holds and adjusts the near end of the horsehair, ebony is most often used". However, on the ebony page, though there is an extensive list of musical instruments, not only was the double bass not listed, neither was the bow! Well, seeing as how ebony frogs are used on violin, viola, and cello bows as well as bass ones, I wanted to rectify this oversight. So I signed up for an account, and didn't really read through the guidelines. I learn quickest by doing, you see. Well, after some rookie mistakes, (for instance, I had a link on "frog" that led to the page on amphibians, not the bow, and I now know to test such things in the sandbox first) I finally had a working edition that added the information missing from the article. And then it was deleted. I'm not entirely sure why, perhaps I missed some essential protocol or something. But if I can't add this information to the article, can someone else? It bothers me that the page on musical bows doesn't match the page on ebony. 123Hannah65 (talk) 03:35, 2 April 2011 (UTC)123Hannah65 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123Hannah65 (talkcontribs) 03:31, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

With regards to your edits on Ebony, don't worry about them. They're fine. The editor who reverted them might have been tired and made an error. Generally additions to Wikipedia require reliable sources to back them up, but in this case, what you added is pretty much common knowledge and unlikely to be challenged. If you have any other questions or need any help, feel free to ask them on my talk page.
(PS I always loved my pernambuco bow. It was definitely an improvement over the fiberglass that I had used before, for what it's worth. But I'm not a bassist.) Danger (talk) 03:52, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
I agree that your edits seemed good, and was puzzled why they got reverted. Good to see you caught the difference between bow and bow (music) on the second go-round. __ Just plain Bill (talk) 04:00, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. The edit is up- turns out that only the early edits with really blatant mistakes were removed. It was still kind of funny to see my work branded "vandalism", though. :P 123Hannah65 (talk) 17:43, 2 April 2011 (UTC)


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