Some comments/issues I have:
- Changed to developer per suggestion.
- ".. features a large number of.."? It's not that large, to be honest. Can "features many character" suffice?
- I was thinking "a diverse set of...", but then figured that was probably too subjective. In any event, I went with "features many characters" as you suggested.
- "focuses on the exploits of treasure hunter Nathan Drake" - "exploits"? As in: Nathan is the character who does what he does for his or his friend benefits? I'm not particularly familiar with the series.
- The usage of "exploits" here was more in line with the definition "A heroic or extraordinary deed," rather than to use for one's benefit.
- I thought it might be. No further quarrel. — Hellknowz ▎talk 18:51, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- "..it as a biological weapon, and in Uncharted 2:.." Can you put a full stop somewhere there? That whole sentence is just too long.
- "He seeks various valuable items, and was designed to be an average and likable character." Two completely different facts in the same sentence. Sounds a bit weird.
- "He is supported by a number of characters" - truly "supported" or just accompanied?
- In some cases, truly supported, but in others, merely accompanied. Changed wording to "accompanied".
- "The first is Elena Fisher, areporter who" - space
- ".. has a separate antagonist who dies.." - "different antagonist"
- After "Each different installment of the series.." it would be best if individual storylines would be separated by some indication. Like saying "In first game, blah blah ... In second game, blah blah blah". Unless it was intended to be a continuous description. Because still reads very "chunky"
- "..he goes after El Dorado once Sullivan tells him he is on to a big find." - can it be just "tells him about it" or something. That mess of short words is very vague.
- This wording is intentionally vague. In the game, Sully does not tell him what the find is, merely that his next find will be significant. Roman shows up without knowing that the find is El Dorado until later.
- So something along the lines of ".. once Sullivan tells him of a significant find he discovered."? — Hellknowz ▎talk 18:51, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I re-worded it, is "once Sullivan tells him that he has found something of great value" acceptable? かんぱい！ Scapler (talk) 19:01, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- "who steals the idol to sell its cursing abilities as a biological weapon to the highest bidder." - can it be just "...to sell it as a bio..."? Is the fact that it's sold to "highest bidder" important enough to include?
- It does seem redundant, doesn't it? Removed the "highest bidder" part.
- "Drake causes Navarro to drown when he forces El Dorado into the ocean, attached to Navarro's leg." That's a very weird construct. Can it be simply said "Drake drowns Navarro by forcing El Dorado.."?
- Technically, Drake did not drown him, so I have removed him from the sentence completely, hopefully resulting in a clearer sentence.
- To be honest, lead seems excessively long. The image does not help either. I'm not sure what to do about it though. Image may be moved to next section, then again it's really nice.
- To me, the lead seems in line with an article of this length. Also, the image shows a number of characters in the series grouped together; a similar image is found at the top of nearly every FL character article I've found. For example: List of Naruto characters, List of Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow characters, etc... OK, so there are only three character featured lists, but I think the image gives at least a brief overview of the subject: the characters of the games.
- Well, not everyone's on a 42" monitor :P My point was that the image is very wide and in other lists it's not quite so big. Also, other FL don't truly dictate the layout of any future FLs. So the image can be manipulated until best appreance. But, as I say, I don't know what can be done about it except shrinking or moving down to next section.— Hellknowz ▎talk 18:51, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh! I believe I completely misinterpreted your comment! I have viewed this page on a little netbook, so I know what you mean. I will make it a bit smaller. かんぱい！ Scapler (talk) 19:01, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, I think there is not much more to improve about it now.— Hellknowz ▎talk 19:15, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I will go through remainder (hopefully) later.— Hellknowz ▎talk 17:49, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the comments! I believe I have addressed them all, besides the last one, which I happen to disagree with you on. かんぱい！ Scapler (talk) 18:26, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- "..development team drew a number of concept sketches depicting.." You could link to Concept art
- "..depicting cliff-hanging and awkward weapon handling.." - "unfinished"? cliff-hanging for me means something a bit different.
- Reworded to "hanging from cliffs" to avoid confusion with the common phrase
- That sentence also need a mention that this is about characters not weapons or anything. For example, "Other more fluid motions were not.." is kind of ambiguous until you read up to motion capture part. Everything makes sense on second read. But I'm not sure it should need second reads.
- Agreed; it should not require a second read. Reworded to make the motion capture bit the first part
- "In designing the characters, the production team sought to capture a certain tone.." -> "The production team sought to capture a certain tone in the character design, .." the less commas the better
- "..studied source material from the pulp adventure genre." "source material" seems a bit redundant, what else could they have studied? The latter sentences list examples anyway. "..studied the pulp adventure genre."
- Removed "source material"
- "characters' personalities" -> "character personalities", commonly accepted construct and reads easier, besides it's not used later on in, say, "character reactions".
- "characters' humanity" - ditto
- "To accomplish this, many of the character reactions were accomplished through.." - Accomplish does not really read easy here, especially twice in a row. "To accomplish this, many of the character reactions were delivered through.."
- Major oversight on my part using a word twice in a row; switched with "conveyed"
- "through expressions and body language" - "facial expressions"?
- Yeah, explicitly say so now
- "The actors did a number of read-throughs and .." - you can link read-through. Though it doesn't seem like the correct term. I'm not too familiar with slang though.
- I have linked it, but I do believe it is correct. That is, they sat around and read the script before actually ever performing any of it.
- "Naughty Dog conciously worked to avoid.." -> "consciously" and "Naughty Dog consciously avoided.." - redundancy
- "..stereotypes, both with the super-powered heroes, and with the overly sexualized female characters."
- Firstly, why are there "with"s? - "..avoid stereotypes, both blah, and blah."
- Secondly, these aren't the only stereotypes of action games. So "both" is sorta wrong. So, "..avoid stereotypes, such as blah, and blah"
- "Evan Wells, Naughty Dog co-president stated.." -> comma "..co-president, stated.." You do use comma like that in other places. Also ", Naughty Dogs' co-president," or ", co-president of Naughty Dog,", it needs possessive case here. Otherwise it's just co-president Evan Wells who is a naughty dog XD
- I can't speak to his personal naughtiness, but I have fixed this
- "..Nathan Drake's, the main protagonist of the series, personality." That's a bit late to mention he's the protagonist (and next section titles/intro pretty much saying this too). Surely this can be moved to the lead into "Nathan Drake is the primary playable character in the series."
- Moved protagonists mention to an earlier spot
I'm a bit picky, I know. But I oppose FL for now, so I'll point out things to fix so I can support it. Further comments soon.— Hellknowz ▎talk 02:37, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Picky is good. I don't just want a star on the page, I want a page deserving of the star. I look forward to your picking apart of the rest of the article, sincerely I do. For now, I have addressed most of the above statements. かんぱい！ Scapler (talk) 03:19, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- "But Hennig doesn't believe that technology was the only key to capturing emotion; rather, she said, it was the production of the game as if it were a traditional movie or stage play." [2] - how about this quote in development?
- Good quote. I paraphrased it and added it to the third paragraph of the creation section.
- "Nolan North voices Drake, and has a considerable" - I don't think the comma is necessary
- "..interjecting aspects of his personality into Drake's." -> "mixing/adding his personality into Drake's." - unnecessary excessive expressivness
- "Drake is a playable character in the series' two video games" - "two video games of the series", possessives always sound weird with "s"s.
- "Drake is depicted as a professional treasure hunter with a shady background involving various people from the underground illegal goods market.[12]" - the source talks in present tense. It does not explicitly state he has "shady background". I think this is a bit on OR side for one of the main facts of the character. Just "..treasure hunter involved with various people...".
- I have added a source that says, "With a shady reputation and an even shadier past".
- "He is a very intelligent man, self-educated in history and various languages, and a supposed descendant of Sir Francis Drake.[13]" The ref does not talk about his intelligence, self-education in history/languages. The ref only applies to descendent part and even then it is concluded via sorta OR.
- Replaced the source with another that says all of that
- Replaced a number of "Drake"s with "he"s. Also, it believe it is accepted practice to link pages twice when the first link occurs in the lead and the other occurs in the body of the text. Personally, I believe this ensures that the article will be more comprehendible to readers, as some start by reading the lead, while others jump right into the article.
- I'm not talking about lead, rather Nathan section only.
- 1st para, 4th sent. "Drake is a playable character in the two video games of the series: Uncharted: Drake's Fortune and Uncharted 2: Among Thieves, and the lead character .."
- 2nd para, 4th sent. "In Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, he uses the diary of Francis Drake to track the mythical El Dorado to ..."
- 2nd para 7th sent. "In Uncharted 2: Among Thieves, he is hired to steal an oil lamp from a museum that might point.."
- In addition, later sections do not seem to adhere to the same linking policy. Fisher links fortune, skips thieves. Sully links thieves, skips fortune. Noone else links. If the reader does jump over lead, they'll jump to Nathan, so I agree Nathan section can be re-linked. Others — I'm not so sure. — Hellknowz ▎talk 01:09, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- For sure, for sure. I have de-linked now, sorry for the misunderstanding.
- "He, along with his partner Victor Sullivan, discover" - "He and his partner Victor Sullivan discover" less commas
- "statue that places a curse upon those who" - "statue that curses those who" - simpler unless the curse itself is significant on its own
- "from using the statues zombification properties as a weapon" - as much I'm into fancruft and fancy game terms... "from using the statue's powers of turning undead/creating zombies as a weapon" Also link zombie should you use it.
-
- "Drake tracks him to a monastery, where the entrance to Shambhala is discovered." - passive voice. I'm not sure who discovers it to suggest better - was it Drake, Zoran?
- "Lazarevic discovers and consumes.." - "discover" again, it was just used
- "Naughty Dog" you link these in Drake and Fisher sections. I think the two lead and development links is enough already.
- ".. did not want him to appear too generic" - you cannot be "more average", "less equal", or "too generic"
- I suppose not, lol. Fixed.
- "Drake's appearance is generic, usually appearing in a solid color shirt and jeans.[19]" - I can't find that in the reference.
- Added a reference to support this.
- "a solid color shirt and jeans." jeans are as much the subject of further research as color or shirt. I don't think it needs to be linked.
- "This was to impost an everyman persona upon the character." - no ref attached, the next one is about reporter acquaintance.
- Forgot the red; attached now.
- The whole love interest info in unreferenced. Only mention of acquaintance with Fisher. I'd really love to see a ref or two on that he really is romantically attached. I know it's just plot, but still. It is given much weight in the text.
- Referenced where it was not already.
- I think some facts need more referencing to signify their notability better. I know that very vague, I'll point stuff out when I go through refs.
- Finally, I'm a bit weary calling other characters protagonists. A protagonist is by definition the one main hero. I haven't played the games, but it seems others don't get much user playable screen time.
- What term should I use instead; would something like "main characters" be acceptable, or perhaps "heroes"?
- Heroes might be a bit stretchy, but "main characters", "supporting characters", or just "Drake's friend/hero/love/arch-enemy" all seem fine — really depends on content. I only didn't like the "protagonist" in particular. — Hellknowz ▎talk 01:09, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I am going to change to "main characters" - my main question is if this is an acceptable heading for the first section as well. Thoughts? かんぱい！ Scapler (talk) 02:25, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- It seems fine. I don't think there's a better alternative. "Recurring characters", perhaps, but that's just saying the same thing, really.— Hellknowz ▎talk 13:03, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Responded to this set as well. かんぱい！ Scapler (talk) 23:19, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Collect a full set and win a FL! ^^ — Hellknowz ▎talk 01:09, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- "{{main article|Nathan Drake (character)}}" -> "{{main|Nathan Drake (character)|l1=Nathan Drake}}" - not sure on WP policy on {{main}} template usage, but seems appropriate to give non-dabed name. Also {{main}} is the main (no pun) template.— Hellknowz ▎talk 14:49, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I didn't even know that you could pipe with that template. Fancy. Fixed. かんぱい！ Scapler (talk) 15:31, 6 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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