Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of currencies in North America/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was archived by Crisco 1492 05:07, 21 June 2014 (UTC) [1].

List of currencies in North America[edit]

Nominator(s): Mat ty.007 18:07, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because after a failed featured list nomination and a more recent peer review, I feel that this meets the criteria (sorry for the cliche). I find this topic an interesting one, particularly the usage of the East Caribbean Dollar. Thanks, Mat ty.007 18:07, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Where's Greenland? Matthewedwards (talk · contribs) 16:38, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Isn't a soverign state or a dependency. Matty.007 16:53, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - It's still part of North America, as are the Dutch municipalities / constituent countries of Aruba, Bonaire, Curaçao, Sint Maarten, Sint Eustatius, and Saba; and the French overseas regions/territories Guadaloupe, St Barts, Saint Martin, and Martinique. Matthewedwards (talk · contribs) 17:38, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    - Doing... Matty.007 17:48, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      - Matthewedwards: added, finally. Thanks, Mat ty.007 20:08, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments:
- IMO but there shouldn't be captionless images. You can't assume layout will always place an image next to the descriptive text.
  - I've had issues with this before. I've put in [[File:Kelk i.jpg|350px|right|The East Caribbean dollar reverse sides]], what do I need to do to get the caption to show? Thanks, Mat ty.007 18:25, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- What is the criteria for appearing in the third table? The Netherlands and France are sovereign nations with territory in North America. Personally the nation listed should be those, rather than their constituent parts. It would be akin to listing "Hawaii" in a list of Oceanian currencies. Where they use a different currency than the rest of their country should be noted.
  - Oh, I see, it's the same dreadful division used in the list of countries in North America... yeah, don't go by that. It's dreadful. I would list the sovereign countries in North America - which includes France and, I believe, The Netherlands and possibly Denmark - and have sub-rows for the particular parts of those countries where they use a different currency. Specifically, Bonaire, Sint Eustatius, and Saba don't use the Euro, despite being (I believe) fundamental units of the Netherlands. Greenland and Aruba's relationship with Denmark and The Netherlands, respectively, is a little beyond me, so I leave that to others, but I believe those to be considered integral parts of their nations as well. Listing Guadeloupe and Martinique separately makes no more sense than listing Hawaii and Alaska separately, and shouldn't be done. (Saint Martin... That's a weird one).
    - Sorry, please can you clear this up for me? What scheme should I go by? Also, I'm afraid I have no idea how to do a sub-row... Thanks, Mat ty.007 18:25, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - I see zero reason to include Clipperton Island as an 'other area' with 'no currency', yet Navassa Island is included in 'dependences' with 'dollar', despite both being entirely uninhabited.
    - Whoops. Changed Navassa to uninhabited
- Furthermore, while the text supplies lots of info on the East Caribbean dollar, it doesn't spend a single word on these other countries, for example explaining how these fundamental units of other countries are using different currencies from the rest of their country, or even who these other countries belong to. It talks about how Panama and Cuba use two currencies, yet no explanation of Sint Maarten using two currencies, or anything about the Netherlands Antilles Guilder. There also needs to be a discussion in the text on how it's not just U.S. territories using the U.S. dollar, since it's also used in the British Virgin Islands, and how the British territories collectively use four different currencies.
  - I can't discuss all the currencies in the text (think of what I would have to do for Africa!), what inclusion criteria should I use? Thanks, Mat ty.007 18:25, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm against including the 'previous currency' column; if someone is interested in what preceded a currency, they can click the article on it. It's bad form to just include the immediately previous one, and in many cases that isn't accurate (for example, Panama didn't use the Colombian peso; Colombia did, and then Panama split from them. And how many centuries ago did Belize cease using the Spanish dollar?)
  - It makes it seem a little scarce I would have said? Thanks, Mat ty.007 18:25, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- At present this is more a list of areas and what currencies they use... rather than the list of currencies. Start from there, and we'll have a better result.
I have to oppose at this time. --Golbez (talk) 21:11, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- - I'm not sure I quite follow? Thanks, Matty.007 18:25, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    - This isn't a list of the currencies used in North America. This is a list of the countries and dependencies in North America, and what currencies they use. The list would rightly be "East Caribbean Dollar, Euro, U.S. Dollar", etc., rather than "Bermuda, Bahamas, Panama, ...". --Golbez (talk) 19:08, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      - How would that work if countries used two currencies? Thanks, Mat ty.007 19:12, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
        Then the country would be listed twice. --Golbez (talk) 15:12, 14 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I made the exact comment last nomination. The way the list is structured now, it looks like there are far more currencies than actually exist. You made a list of countries, with currency as a column. I strongly believe it should be a list of currencies, with the country (or countries) as a column, given the title of the article. Mattximus (talk) 20:35, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah. I was thinking this morning, "Just because it's a list of X doesn't mean that has to be the primary column." For example, a list of current governors of U.S. states would be organized by state, not governor. But you hit it on the head - there are many fewer currencies in use than there are countries. My proposal is: Currency, Symbol, Decimal unit, and then subrows (using rowspans) for each country using it and the year it was introduced. The 'previous currency' adds nothing; why is the Colombian currency previous for Panama but not the British currency previous for the United States? --Golbez (talk)
  - I'll have a look at changing at the weekend (I hope you don't mind assisting me when I do it?). Thanks, Matty.007 17:07, 14 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    - Golbez: will you be able to help with sub-rows this weekend? Thanks, Matty.007 10:12, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      - Phew! Changed layout. OK now? Thanks, Mat ty.007 15:35, 18 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Much better, but there are still some clean up issues. Why would you have none (uninhabited) as a row? What is the logic behind dividing the the table into three (the US dollar, for example, appears 3 times)? Mattximus (talk) 21:07, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Mattximus: removed none, would you suggest combining? Thanks, Mat ty.007 18:00, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes unless I'm missing something. Why were they separated to begin with? Mattximus (talk) 20:44, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As soverign states, dependencies and other. Working on merging. Thanks, Mat ty.007 16:25, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Mattximus: done. Thanks, Mat ty.007 16:35, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be better to include the name of the country perhaps in italics in brackets after the dependencies. And the title of that column can't just be countries (maybe countries and dependencies?) Mattximus (talk) 21:33, 28 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Mattximus: doing. Thanks, Mat ty.007 08:13, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not too sure of the title, but done. Thanks, Mat ty.007 08:28, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not done, by Holland I think you mean the Netherlands, and also Bonaire is administered by the Netherlands. Mattximus (talk) 21:03, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Mattximus: done. Thanks, Mat ty.007 17:55, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

OK, sometimes you use United States of America, and sometimes USA in the table. Please be consistent. Mattximus (talk) 20:52, 30 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Changed the one 'USA' to 'United States of America'. Thanks, Mat ty.007 08:05, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There are 25 currencies in the table, but the lead says 18 + 4? Also the first sentence of the second paragraph is a passive mess and needs to be rewritten to be clarified. Mattximus (talk) 20:16, 14 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Changed. Thanks, Mat ty.007 19:39, 15 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think one more column should be added, the three letter ISO 4217 code is quite useful. After this change I am satisfied with the table. Then the lead needs quite a bit of work, it's not very well written, but I'll see if I can get to it. Mattximus (talk) 20:06, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No, that is against consensus. Originally, the ISO codes were there, then a few editors said it would be better removed, therefore consensus exists against it. Thanks, Mat ty.007 16:22, 17 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I checked the archived nomination, but could not find ISO opposition. Which editors were opposed to the three letter code? Also I have to oppose on prose, it needs a major rewrite. Especially notable are passive sentences galore. For example consider which sentence is more clear, the first is in the article, the second is my rewrite:

"By the number of countries in North America sharing a currency, the East Caribbean dollar is most used."
"The East Caribean dollar is used in the most number of countries in North America."

In addition the sentences about reserve currency are a complete mess. It really needs a thorough copyedit. Mattximus (talk) 17:26, 17 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

- The Europe nomination. Thanks, Mat ty.007 17:53, 17 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Drive-by Comment - Tweaked tables:
- All tables now sortable by individual locations versus blocks in some cases. Second table- removed sorting from fractional unit (all the same). Third table- removed extra column with a single rogue cent denomination listed, removed "Euro" from Netherlands Antillean guilder row. Each table edit is independent, feel free to revert if it's not an improvement.-Godot13 (talk) 05:11, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - Looks very good now, thanks, Mat ty.007 16:25, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delegate's comment - This nomination has been archived. There will be a delay in the closing of this nomination; please be patient. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:04, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.