Wikipedia:Peer review

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Wikipedia's peer review process is a way to receive ideas and feedback from other editors about articles. An article may be nominated by any user, and will appear on the list of all peer reviews. Other users can comment on the review. Peer review may be used for potential good article nominations, potential featured article candidates, or an article of any "grade". Peer review is a useful place to centralise a review from other editors about an article, and may be associated with a WikiProject; and may also be a good place for new Wikipedians to receive feedback on how an article is looking.

Peer reviews are open to any feedback, and users requesting feedback may also request more specific feedback. Unlike formal nominations, editors and nominators may both edit articles during the discussion.

To request a review, or nominate an article for a review see the instructions page. Users are limited to requesting one review at any one time, and are encouraged to help reduce the backlog by commenting on other articles. Any user may comment on a review, and there is no requirement that any comments may be acted on.

A list of all current peer reviews, with reviewer's comments included, can be found here. For easier navigation, a list of peer reviews, without the reviews themselves included, can be found here. A chronological peer reviews list can be found here.



Everyday life[edit]

Development of Grand Theft Auto V[edit]

I am looking to take this article to FAC at some point and would like some feedback on the prose, non-free content, sources and structure.

Thanks, CR4ZE (tc) 13:21, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

I have also sent it over to WP:GOCE. CR4ZE (tc) 13:22, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Thursday 24 April 2014, 13:21 UTC)----

Madison Paige[edit]

This is a fairly new article, and I'd like to get it in good shape from the start. Tackling this article also moves me closer to improving coverage on Heavy Rain -- one of the more notable games and a rare AAA "interactive movie". The article is moreorless complete, though the "Character overview" section is short and the "In Heavy Rain" section a bit long, but I'm having difficulty figuring whatever I can cut, and could use an outsider's view (always hard to cut anything you wrote).

Thanks, – Bellum (talk) (contribs) 16:35, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Monday 21 April 2014, 16:35 UTC)----

Proteus (video game)[edit]

Previous peer review

This article has been at Peer Review twice already, receiving no comments either time, and has recently been at FAC. The FAC received a limited response and was not promoted; I'm requesting a peer review with the aim of the next FAC going smoothly. My main concerns currently are that of quality of writing, but I would also like comments on other aspects of the article.

Thanks, Sam Walton (talk) 16:53, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Did you address all of J Milburn's and Masem's complaints? Tezero (talk) 05:47, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

I believe so. I've added a link to the FAC above. Sam Walton (talk) 09:02, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Doing... Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 15:01, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Friday 18 April 2014, 16:53 UTC)----

2013 NFL season[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to get some feedback on changes I have recently made to the article and with an eye toward eventual nomination of this article as a good or featured article. I have made substantial changes to the article's structure which diverges from the pattern established by other NFL season articles (e.g. 2012 NFL season and 2010 NFL season). I feel that these changes enhance the article's coverage of its topic, but I would love to hear opinions from others. I have asked for comments from the NFL WikiProject, but have so far gotten no responses.

Thanks, — DeeJayK (talk) 22:03, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Shudde I have a few comments, these are only very brief, but if you want to nominate the article for GA I think they'll be useful.

  • I'm not sure about having the article start with a list of tables. If it were to remain as is, I think I'd have an introductory paragraph for both Standings and Postseason giving context to the information. As it stands it will not be widely accessible.
  • The lead could be expanded as per WP:LEAD
  • In general, the article seems to be a collection of lists or bullet points. If this were in a print encyclopaedia would it be presented this way?
  • I'd do your best to reduce things like jargon and geographically-biased terms. Even something like "4pm ET on March 12" makes little sense to a non-American. ET? What is that?
  • How were things like "Notable events", "Scheduling highlights", "Major trades" decided? If there is a reason for the list of Major trades for example, then maybe say what the criteria are in a sentence or two at the beginning of the section.
  • I think the article could do with a large multi-paragraphed prose section that would incorporate the major points from Notable events and Records and milestones. This would be a lot of work, but would make the article more encyclopaedic.
  • I think some fancruft could be culled, and some of the more crufty material split off into separate articles. At the moment the article is > 200kb so this may be warranted as per WP:SPLIT.

I've got no doubts the article is well sourced and covers all the material it should. But like I said above I think it could do with a substantial prose section and some culling of the lists and bullet points (or the conversion of the bulleted stuff into paragraphs). Looks like a lot of work has gone into this, and is quite impressive, but just think a large prose summary of the season will make it bit better. Hope this helps. -- Shudde talk 03:44, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Response from DeeJayK
Thanks for reviewing the page and providing your feedback. These are all excellent points and I will work on implementing your suggestions into the article. I've got to admit that I find this article a bit tricky simply because so much of what is included is (or should be) covered in much greater detail in another article. For example, the individual team season articles, like 2013 Denver Broncos season, would be expected to have much more detail on the seasons and games of each team, the 2013 NFL Draft article covers the draft in more detail, the 2013-14 NFL playoffs article covers the playoffs and the Super Bowl XLVIII article covers the championship game. Because of this, I've had a hard time determining what really belongs in this article and in how much depth things should be covered. In some ways, this article really functions more as a hub from which readers can drill down into the more detailed coverage in these other article. Hence the over-reliance on things like lists. I guess a more thorough re-thinking of the structure is in order.
I've got some questions with regard to some of your more specific points:
  • Re: jargon and geographical terms like time zones - when time zones are used I've made a point to link the time zone at least the first time it's presented in each paragraph. I'm not sure how one presents times without including this info. If you have any specific suggestions on what changes you would make, I'd love to hear it. Was there any other jargon that gave you pause?
  • Re: fancruft - Can you be more specific on what you would consider "fancruft"? I assume you are referring to the rather long list of records and milestones. I agree this list is rather comprehensive — perhaps this is something that could/should be broken out into it's own article? Do you feel like that section could stand on it's own? Perhaps the list of awards should also be broken out? Are there any other sections that you feel contain trivia not worthy of coverage in this article (or at all)?
Again, I want to thank you for sharing your opinions. Once I have a chance to implement your suggestions would you mind if I reached out to you again to have you take another look? Thanks! — DeeJayK (talk) 15:15, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
You're right that those other articles cover a lot of material in more detail, but that actually gives you the freedom to be selective in what you include in the article. It's going to be a summary of the season, and the quality is going to depend more on what you exclude than what you include. With 32 teams and 256 matches, you've obviously not going to be able to mention every match, and maybe not every team! My advice would be work backwards from those sides that progressed further in the season. A summary of the season would obviously include more information on the Broncos or Seahawks than say Washington. I would decide on what kind of length you want in the prose section, and then work from that. You may want to go into a little more detail than you'd like and then cull back, but that all depends on your writing/drafting style.
  • Regarding more specific concerns, something like say "Awards and Statistics" (this should be "Awards and statistics" btw) could be split off, and a paragraph summarising it added. Some of the tables could remain, but only those you'd deem most notable.
  • Just be careful of jargon, have a look at things like MOS:TIME for how best to present this information -- it just adds significantly to accessibility.
  • Fancruft is just the material that only the die-hards would really care about. Things like "Schedule changes" -- is that 'The Texans–Chiefs game was moved from noon CDT to 3:25 pm CDT to accommodate "regional broadcast patterns" ' really very notable? Many of the things in "Records and milestone" would be pushing it as well. It's just about distilling down the things you think would be most broadly notable, and then splitting off the rest into a more specific article or list.
My main point is that you want to delist this article as much as possible and replace the lists with prose. It's a lot of work I admit! But it's my honest opinion that this would be the best way to improve the article. I'd be happy to have a look at the article in the future and offer further advice. -- Shudde talk 03:47, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
@Shudde:I've expanded the lead per your suggestion and I've also added a dozen-or-so paragraph prose section covering the highlights of the regular season. Some of the info previously included in lists has been worked into this section. The article remains a work in progress, but I'd like to get your opinion of the direction I am heading. Does the length of the lead strike you as appropriate? Do you approve of the tone and scope of the regular season section? etc. Thanks. — DeeJayK (talk) 21:59, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Wednesday 16 April 2014, 22:03 UTC)----

D. Djajakusuma[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because I'd like to bring it to FAC and would like some feedback regarding prose and accessibility to those not well-versed in Indonesian history.

Thanks,  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:08, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments by Wehwalt
  • "Upon invitation from Usmar Ismail," Perhaps, "After being invited by Usmar Ismail".
  • " before leaving it after completing the comedy Masa Topan dan Badai in 1964." The before/after is unpleasing. Is the name of the film really relevant for lede purposes?
Early life
  • " As such, in early 1943" perhaps "Accordingly, in early 1943"
  • I suggest the various translations of Cultural Centre be consigned to a footnote. That sentence could usefully be split
  • "To promote a sense of …" this sentence might also usefully be divided.
  • Semicolon changed to period. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:55, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "Anwar later wrote that he had also gone to Banten to ask a kyai to make him impervious to bullets." This sentence is ambiguous, centering around the "also" Either someone else went to Benten or Anwar went somewhere else, I imagine. And who's him?
  • "when the Dutch colonial government held control of Jakarta" perhaps "with the Dutch colonial government in control of Jakarta"
Entry etc.
  • " General Assault of 1 March 1949" link?
  • Nothing blue yet, sadly. Redlinked (I have several books here to write an article with).
  • "owing to the smile of a waitress" Hm, I don't know. Maybe "transfixed by the smile of a waitress" or similar.
  • "while at UCLA " Did he transfer from USC? Please also check the use of "UCLA" a little later on. Perhaps also one of the "lessons" (used twice in sentence) could be changed?
  • My apologies, I seem to have misread the source. Fixed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:55, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
Last years w/
  • " the director had abandoned too many traditional aspects of the puppetry." perhaps "ignored" for "abandoned"?
  • Fair enough
  • "their two teenaged daughters who are in the throes of puberty" perhaps "adolescence" for "puberty"?
  • Alright
  • "This regional-focused adaptation" Huh?
  • "Indonesians should focus on local arts and not continue to depend on Western theories." Is "theories" really the word you want? It seems oddly contrasted with "arts".
  • I'm not sure what you're describing there is "legacy".
  • Fair enough, retitled. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:55, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Anyhoo, good job.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:33, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Sarastro[edit]


  • "During the Japanese occupation from 1943 to 1945 he was a translator and thespian, and during the four-year national revolution he worked for the military's educational division, several news agencies, and in drama.": Is there a way to avoid “during…during"?
  • "In 1951, Djajakusuma joined the National Film Corporation (Perfini) after he was invited by Usmar Ismail.": What about “In 1951, Djajakusuma joined the National Film Corporation (Perfini) at the invitation of Usmar Ismail."
  • That's what I was aiming for with the "upon" sentence which Wehwalt mentioned. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:24, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "Djajakusuma released a further eleven films with the company before leaving it in 1964.": I think we could lose the “it"
  • "much of his energies": Should this be “most of his energies"?

Early life:

  • Nobleman is a bit vague, and for those too lazy to follow the link, may be misleading. Could a word of clarification be added, or even a note? People generally known as nobles do not usually have to work!
  • In a British context, definitely. In a contemporary Javanese context, they were the only ones qualified for certain jobs (such as bupati). In the early 20th century they were also the only ones who qualified for government schooling, so many of the people who held jobs which required an education were (minor) nobles. Journalists such as [[Tirto Adhi Soerjo], political leaders such as Sukarno, lawyers such as Soepomo... anyways, changed to have "priyayi" show directly. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:24, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "Djajakusuma was the fifth child of six born to the couple, which lived comfortably off Djojokoesomo's salary as government official.": Should this be “who lived comfortably"?
  • "With his friends, he would act out the bedtime stories his mother told him with his friends.": Repetition of “with his friends"

Indonesian national revolution:

  • "The group would travel throughout the city" and “after the arrival of the Netherlands Indies Civil Administration, they would sometimes attempt to spy" and “Djajakusuma would listen to international news broadcasts": Do we need “would"?
  • "these were printed in underground newspapers": Perhaps too idiomatic? Unless it was for The Wombles? (And I’m sure you don’t get that reference, but someone might…)

Entry to film:

  • "Djajakusuma helped Ismail adapt the event for the screen": “helped Ismail to adapt" would sound more natural to my ear.
  • "had to be powered by a car battery owing to the inability to buy the necessary equipment": Should this be “their inability"?
  • "the film featured some of the first nudity in a local production": Does this mean an Indonesian production, or something more specific?
  • Indonesian. Changed to Domestic. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:24, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Last years:

  • "This film was reportedly held by the censorship bureau for almost a year.": I’m not a fan of “reportedly"; who reported? How reliable is the story?
  • Removed, as we don't use "reportedly" in the article on the film. The source is Said, who lived through the period and had access to contemporary newspapers; reliable enough, though (as with all contemporary Indonesian sources) quick to cast aspersions on the communists. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:24, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Later career:

  • "He is particularly recognised for his revitalising lenong.": By who?

Final years:

  • "In 1980 he made his last film appearance, acting in Ismail Soebardjo's Perempuan dalam Pasungan (Girl in Stocks)": Was this not his only acting appearance? If so, could we specify why the change? (Unless I’ve missed something?)
  • I'll see if I have any explanation in my sources. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:24, 20 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "His adoptive family later recalled that he showed no outward signs of ill health.": Can we explain why he had an adoptive family, and who they were? We seem to have this explanation in the next paragraph.
  • Removed altogether, because it would end up awkward if explained here. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:24, 20 April 2014 (UTC)


  • We use “garnered" twice; I think once is more than enough!
  • This section gets a little listy in places.
  • Sadly the sources I have don't go into that much detail. No sound bites, no controversy over the awards. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:24, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Another good piece of work, and I had no problems in following this at all. Let me know when it gets to FAC. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:23, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

  • Thanks for the review! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:24, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from SchroCat[edit]

Apologies for the tardy comments here - distractions on and off Wiki have tied me up recently. I'm taking advantage of the in-flight WiFi on the way to Oslo, which is the first proper,chance I've had to go over this. I've made a few CEs here and there. They are mostly grammatical, rather than stylistic, but feel free to revert anything you don't agree with. More specifically, a few suggestions below to consider: adopt or reject as the mood takes you:


  • "dedicated but easily angered Djajakusuma": should that be a hyphenated "easily-angered"? I'm not entirely sure, so I'll send up the bat signal for @Tim riley: to comment.
  • I believe the hyphen is necessary for adjectival phrases, but not those with adverbs. Of course, if Tim differs we can hyphenate here.
  • I am no authority on punctuation in general or hyphens in particular, but I'd say as used here you don't want the hyphen. But you'd much better seek the advice one of WP's real experts, such as User:Chris the speller, who has got me out of many a hole of my own digging. I'll look in properly at this PR if it's still open when I've done the two I'm already signed up for. Tim riley (talk) 09:17, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
  • We don't use a hyphen in cases like this. WP:HYPHEN sub-subsection 3, bullet point 4 says "A hyphen is not used after a standard -ly adverb (a newly available home, a wholly owned subsidiary) unless part of a larger compound (a slowly-but-surely strategy)." Chris the speller yack 16:32, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
  • As Ko-Ko says in The Mikado, "very glad to have my opinion backed by a competent authority". Thank you, Chris! Tim riley (talk) 19:53, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Early life

  • "at times he would sneak out of his home after curfew": two things here. Firstly, is "sneak out" encyclopaedic? Secondly, "curfew" suggests a civil or military legal imposition: was this the case?
  • No, just your standard "Dad says we shouldn't be out after x o'clock". Copyedited. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:20, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Done to the start of "Later career": more to follow soon on this very interesting piece. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 06:38, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

  • Thanks for taking up this PR (and have a safe trip)! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:20, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Second and final batch

Again, a few further suggestions for you to pick up or ignore as you see fit:

Later career

  • "The second film, meanwhile, was an adaptation": I'm not sure the "meanwhile" is needed here?
  • "His last role behind the screen": There's probably a better way of saying "behind the screen", but my brain is on a go-slow this afternoon


  • b. "propagandising": fine in AmEng, painful in BrEng. The Americans are happy to turn nouns into verbs, but it is still not ideal in BrEng. Perhaps "with the ultimate goal of (providing or building) propaganda for the Japanese political position"?

All good, and look forward to seeing this at FAC! - SchroCat (talk) 14:45, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Tuesday 15 April 2014, 16:08 UTC)----

Flipnote Studio 3D[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because I want to improve it! That includes the possibility that there is too much information...I would like feedback on what information is too in-depth and unneeded for the article, as well as anything that's unclear, or anything that's incorrectly done, etc etc.

Thanks, Sforzando (talk) 00:04, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Tezero[edit]

  • Would you be able to find reception for the game? Famitsu is a well-known Japanese reviewer. Additionally, perhaps Western media outlets like IGN and GameSpot have offered opinions on the game, even if not full-fledged reviews.
  • Also, the more third-party (i.e. not by Nintendo) sources you add, the less in-question the article's notability will be.
  • The level-4 subsections in the article (e.g. "Flipnote Gallery: Friends") are a little too detailed. Those bullet points really aren't necessary, and I'd prefer if all of those subsections were merged into "Online services".
  • Three images may be a little much for fair use. I'd recommend removing either the second or third one, as they don't illustrate a whole lot about the app's features or general gameplay. (To put it in context, including the friends online would be like a Pokémon game article having a screenshot from the menus – apparently, even a screenshot of the overworld, a major and unique part of the game, is too much to ask, though.)
  • If you're trying to get the article to GA status, it may be ineligible while there are still plans for a Western release but it hasn't happened yet. That was how Pokémon Black and White failed its GAN, for example.

Tezero (talk) 01:05, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Tuesday 15 April 2014, 00:04 UTC)----


Video games aren't known for attracting robust peer reviews (especially since there are so many FACs to attend to right now), but I'm looking for feedback on an article I've been building for a while. Looking for some advice from those interested on where I may be missing the forest for the trees. Any standard feedback appreciated—would like to take this to FAC eventually. czar  01:34, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Tezero[edit]


Here are the major obstructions I see:

  • "Many critics considered Titanfall to be the next step for the first-person shooter genre,[86][87][92] and the game received abundant publicity from video game journalists." - This sentence isn't really necessary, as both parts are covered elsewhere in the section.
  • I'd separate Reception into "Pre-release" and "Reviews" or something to break up the wall a bit.
  • Likewise, Development could probably be split up a little.
  • What's the story of Expedition like? If there's enough to say about the expansion, you can probably create a subsection for it.
  • "The two opposing Titanfall teams each have their own musical fingerprints" - Elaborate.

May come back with more later. Tezero (talk) 17:01, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

That first sentence is there to signpost the rest of the section. I left the subsections out to keep it cleaner—I think it's more personal preference unless there's a readability argument. No info released on Expedition yet, but probably a subsection eventually. Rephrased "fingerprints"—I have one source I may use to expand that section. I likely won't be able to get to the other peer reviews due to life afk (and I do think you can only have one up at a time per the rules), but I appreciate the feedback czar  22:52, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Huh, you're right about the review limit. Well, I hope they'll let that slide; to make up, I've been adding comments to other peer reviews. Tezero (talk) 00:57, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Solitary comment from The ed17[edit]

Why are the voice actors not named? Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 00:09, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

@The ed17: Thanks for stopping by. They weren't mentioned by name in any of the reliable sources so I didn't think it was notable information czar  02:41, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Monday 14 April 2014, 01:34 UTC)----

Babe Ruth[edit]

Previous peer review

I've listed this article for peer review because… I intend to nominate it for FA and would appreciate feedback.

Thanks, Wehwalt (talk) 21:33, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Doing...: will do in stages – it's a long article. Brianboulton (talk) 09:57, 11 April 2014 (UTC)


first batch of comments
  • "Everyday player": perhaps the term has a specific meaning in baseball terminology. To British ears, unfortunately, it suggests run-of-the-mill, commonplace. I think the equivalent British term would be "all-round". I'm not asking that you change this, but be aware that it might be misunderstood by some British readers.
Tweaked. It is a baseball idiom.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:24, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "Denied a job in baseball..." without explanation is a little mystifying. Perhaps add a few words of justification?
Early Years
  • Reads as if the relatives owned Frederick Street
  • "while at St. Mary's" – superfluous words
  • "As a baseball player, making a large salary, he would adjust the collars of his shirts himself, rather than having a tailor do it." Confusingly worded within this paragraph. Suggest something along th lines of "When he became a baseball player..."
  • There is a link, albeit to a poor-quality article, for Xaverian Brothers
  • "George rarely was visited by his family..." – shouldn't this be "Ruth rarely was visited..." etc? You have not previously called him "George"
Reader better eased into that usage.
  • Link catcher, shortstop
  • "During his time there he would also play third base and shortstop, again unusual for a left-hander, and forcing him to wear mitts and gloves made for righties." Reads slightly awkwardly; maybe lose the second comma. And "righties" is listed in the OED as "N. American - informal" I am also dubious about the encyclopedic nature of "bender" which occurs a few lines further down.
Since "left-hander" is used twice in succession, I think "right-hander" would feel repeated, and given the lack of synonyms … "bender" I think is justified. It sums it up and is instantly understandable.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:15, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Well...slang by its nature is readily understandable, but in an encyclopedia the norm should surely be more formal language. "Righties" could be "right-handed players", "bender" could be "drinking spree". While I accept the need to use the jargon of the sport to a considerable extent, does that justification really apply here? Brianboulton (talk) 18:54, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
I have, somewhat reluctantly, deleted bender. I'm not sure right-handed players avoids the issue of repetition, and the dexter/sinister sort of synonyms seem out of place.
  • "Catholic" should be piped to Catholic Church
  • "He was generous to the school..." St Mary's presumably, but needs to be specified
Baltimore Orioles
  • The signing is dated in the text "early 1914", his first game being dated 7 March 1914, but the image, with Ruth in it fully kitted, is dated 1913.
The image is badly named. I'll look at the page. Done down to here.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:10, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "How it came to be that Dunn signed Ruth" seems a bit wordy: "The circumstances of the signing..." etc?
  • "Others involve Brother Gilbert..." → "Other accounts involve Brother Gilbert..."
  • General: if you are looking to trim the wordcount, I think this paragraph could be a candidate for a cull. The details of the various accounts of Ruth's initial signing don't seem particularly contentious and are questionably worthy of inclusion in a summary encyclopedia article.
Issue with Brother Gilbert mooted by removing him from the article. Part of the reason or that, is I found another Brother GIlbert story on this, supposedly from the good friar himself. Dunn's signing of Ruth is a base that must be touched in this article, but I agree it is overdone.
  • "Although by late June the Orioles were in first place..." In first place in what?
In the league. That is an American sports idiom that it would be troublesome to fix, as it recurs in the article and avoiding its use would be difficult.
Developing star
  • "...the Cleveland Naps (as the Indians were still nicknamed)" – I don't see much point in introducing the nickname, which adds unnecessary confusion to the parenthetic note.
  • "Shore was given a start by Carrigan the next day, and won that and his second start and thereafter was pitched regularly. Ruth lost his second start, and was thereafter little-used." Three "ands" in the first sentence could do with some smoothing, as could the close repeat of "thereafter"
The repetition is is intentional as a contrast is being drawn between Shore and Ruth, so similar words are being used.
  • It's a little hard to understand why Ruth's taking batting practice should offend his team-mates to the extent of their destroying his equipment. Am I missing something?
Pitchers are usually not very capable batters, accordingly their taking batting practice might not be considered as essential as those who play other positions, and are expected to be capable with their bat if they expect to keep their jobs. A pitcher need not be more than minimally capable with the bat to keep his job, therefore Ruth taking up some of the limited opportunity to take batting practice might be resented by his teammates. It would be especially presumptuous as he was a rookie.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:08, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "Although Shore was initially the more effective pitcher, it is uncertain why Carrigan used Ruth so little." The answer to the question posed in the second part of the sentence seems to be provided by the first part.
First part of sentence deleted.
  • "...his departure for Providence was delayed when Cincinnati Reds owner Garry Herrmann claimed him off waivers".Even with the help of links I can't work out what that means.
It has to do with the circumstances under which a player may be transferred from a major league club to a minor league one. I think withe link it will have to stand.
  • "getting his first major league hit, a double." Explanation?
  • Why did Ruth think he was a year older than he was?
It is explained in a footnote. Perhaps wise to delete that portion of the sentence.
  • "a 20 game winner" → "a 20-game winner"?
  • "Until another game of that length was played in 2005, this was the longest World Series game..." Unless the 2005 game was longer than 14 innings, the 1916 game is still the (joint) longest World series game.
I tried various alternatives, that I do not think would help. It is a very fine point and I am inclined to let it stand. Up to date.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:57, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

More soon Brianboulton (talk) 18:26, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Next bit
Developing star
  • "ERA" should be linked or explained at first mention in text
Emergence as a hitter
  • "The runner was caught stealing" – no doubt immediately understood by baseball followers, but otherwise mystifying. Who was "the runner", and what was he stealing?
  • Is there any known reason why Ruth wasn't conscripted? He was surely of military age?
That is explained in "Emergence as a hitter". The owners had contended that as baseball entertained the troops, the players should be exempt. When they were ruled against in 1918, they negotiated keeping the players out until the end of the season, which was shortened. After that, they had to either join the military or an essential war industry, as mentioned.
  • "Ruth's effort gave his team a 3–1 lead in games, and the Red Sox won the Series, their third in four years, two days later, four games to two." Too many commas. My suggested version: "Ruth's effort gave his team a 3–1 lead in games, and two days later the Red Sox won their third Series in four years, by four games to two."
  • "Before allowing the Cubs to score..." – is "allowing" the best verb here? It reads as though the Cubs needed his permission to score.
It is baseball lingo. Alternatives would be "surrendering" "permitting". All of the terms place responsibility on the pitcher.
  • " a ballpark where the distance to right field was 215 feet (66 m)." The implication is that this was a smaller field of play than usual, but can this be made more explicit?
Word "only" added.
  • "He broke it four days later..." → "He broke the record four days later"
  • "...the Red Sox finished sixth..." – one can only judge the merit of this by knowing how many teams there were in the league. For example, sixth out of six is a lot worse than, say, sixth out of 18.
I will add a footnote. Done down to here, will resume later.
Sale to New York
  • "Not all of the circumstances of how it was Frazee sold his best player to the Yankees are known..." A laborious construction. Possibly: "Not all the circumstances of Frazee's sale of his best player to the Yankees are known...", but personally I would cut down to "Not all the circumstances of the sale are known"
  • Pipe-link Prohibition
  • Link Polo Grounds
Linked in an earlier section.
  • Do we know what Ruth's personal salary was when he joined the Yankees?
Yes, I will add something.
  • "According to Marty Appel in his history of the Yankees, the sale of Ruth..." etc: it was of course the sale and purchase of Ruth that affected, repectively, the Red Sox and the Yankees. Or, perhaps, "the Ruth transaction"
I think "the transaction" is enough, there's no ambiguity.
New York Yankees 1920–23
  • "...a feat believed only to have been accomplished by Joe Jackson" – insert "previously" after "accomplished"
  • "Ruth hit his second home run on May 2, and by the end of the month had set a major league record for home runs in a month with 11, and promptly snapped it with 13 in June." Needs rwording to avoid two "ands". In normal parlance, records are broken rather than "snapped", which has a sportswriter feel about it.
  • "Frazee and Barrow quickly made a deal with Frazee..." chop last two words?
First Frazee should have been Ruppert. Changed.
  • I don't think it's encyclopedic to refer to Ruth as "The Babe"
  • "Ruth's appearance in the 1921 World Series also led to a problem and triggered another disciplinary action" – why not, simply: "Ruth's appearance in the 1921 World Series triggered another disciplinary action"?
Sentence cut, it is purely introductory and things are fine without it.

More to follow Brianboulton (talk) 18:54, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Done to here.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:36, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
3 more sections
  • The repetition of "spring training" is unfortunately aligned in lines 2–3 of the second para.
  • Although you have a link to the "premature obituary", Ruth is not among those listed there. Maybe you should add a line there?
  • "had what would be his worst season" → "had his worst season"?
  • "The St. Louis Cardinals had won the National League with the lowest winning percentage for a pennant winner to that point (.578) and the Yankees were expected to win easily." Insert "the World Series" after "to win".
  • "deemed a defensive gem" – odd phrase, meaning not immediately clear: "deemed" by whom?
  • Re the Sylvester story: are we to understand that Ruth did not, in fact, hit the supposed promised home run?
I think the point is it was made a lot more dramatic than it was. I've inserted that he did not know the boy, thus he did not have as great emotional involvement than the version in the movie, where the Babe visits and gets all teary eyed, and then goes out and hits the home run and puts little Johnny on the road to recovery. He did not even remember who Johnny Sylvester was, soon after. It's a base that must be touched in the Ruth story.
  • I believe I've commented on the usage of "the Babe" before.
  • "as much as" unnecessary. Not clear at what point they led by 17 games
The source does not specifically say.
  • Who are "the A's"? I suppose the misplaced apostrophe is necessary, to avoid "the As", but is use of the nickname really necessary?
  • I don't think that Babe Ruth's called shot should be hatted as the main article for this whole section, which covers five years of Ruth's career. The link in the paragraph describing the incident is enough.
I think it is likely enough that someone looking at this part of the article is seeking info about this to be worth a "further information". It's the only Really Big Babe Ruth Legend to be in this section.
OK, but call it "Further information" rather than "Main article", which is a misnomer. Brianboulton (talk) 14:30, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Can you explain "half a World Series share"?
  • "He hit the first home run in the game's history" – this should be clarified to "in the all-star game's history"
  • "Ruth hit only .288 with 22 home runs..." – statistics repeated from earlier in the paragraph.

I shall be missing for a couple of days, but expect to be back on Friday. I should complete the review then or on Saturday. Brianboulton (talk) 23:13, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Have a useful time off. I'm up to date, I think.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:53, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
My final pickings
Boston Braves (1935)
  • "Rumors cropped up" – a bit informal. Perhaps: "There were rumors that Ruth..." etc
  • "he was talked out of it by his wife, Claire" – this is the first mention of this lady; what happened to Helen?
  • "Under way" is two words in all my dictionaries (evolved from "under weigh").
  • "Ruppert had stated that he would not release Ruth to go to another team as a player". The words "go to" are redundant. Also, Ruth was obviously going to play for the Braves (as a gate attraction), so shouldn't this read " as a full-time player"?
  • "Hoopla" is an informal term (BritEng equivalent "hoo-ha"), and clear enough in meaning, but I think beyond the borders of encyclopedic use.
  • "five of New England's six governors" – link New England, and I suggest "six state governors" (you'd be surprised how many people over here assume that "New England" is a US state).
  • "His conditioning" → "His condition". Also "little more" and "little else" in close conjunction
  • "Ruth also found out that rather than give him a share of the profits..." I'd strengthen this to: "Ruth also found out that far from giving him a share of the profits..."
  • "Larry MacPhail made it clear when Ruth was hired that he would not be considered for the job if manager Burleigh Grimes retired at the end of the season as expected." Needs a slight tweak to clarify which job he wouldn't be considered for,. e.g.: "Larry MacPhail made it clear when Ruth was hired that he would not be considered for the manager's job if, as expected, Burleigh Grimes retired at the end of the season."
Cancer and death (1946–1948)
  • "His name and fame gave him access to experimental treatments, becoming one of the first cancer patients to receive both drugs and radiation treatment simultaneously." "Becoming..." is wrong here: "...and he was one of the first..." etc
Personal life
  • The information "Ruth met Helen Woodford, by some accounts, in a coffee shop in Boston where she was a waitress" has been given earlier in the article.
It has, but quite a long time ago and I don't think the repeat that horrible as a lead-in
  • You should mention year of Claire's death, as you do for Helen and stepdaughter Dorothy.
  • I'm not sure that "Despite his marriages..." is the right way to introduce this anecdote, since we have little previous indication of the nature of these marriages, e.g. whether or not they were happy. "Despite" would make sense in the context "Despite his two happy marriages..." if that is the case, but otherwise it doesn't really work.
I've tried again.
Memorial and museum
  • "Moved from old stadium to new were the tributes to Ruth housed in Monument Park, which remains in center field in the new ballpark, as it was in the old". I found the organisation of this sentence rather odd, and also hard to follow. I gather from the link that Monument Park was a museum in the old Yankee Stadium, and that the museum was re-established in the new stadium when it was opened. So I'd replace "remains" with "was re-established". From the monument's WP article: "When the Yankees moved to their new ballpark in 2009 a replica Monument Park was built beyond the center-field fences and the contents of the old transported over" – the whole contents of the museum, not just the tributes to Ruth, were moved from the old stadium to the new.
I've tried in a simpler manner.
  • What does "the monument was in play" mean?
It means that a ball could conceivably hit it and still need to be retrieved by the fielder, though likely in vain by this point. This did not happen very often. Piped to ground rules
  • Close repetition of "is located" in first line of the second paragraph
Contemporary impact
  • Montville argues, Stout notes (both present); Creamer recorded, Wagenheim stated (both past). Is there a case for consistent use of the literary present? (later in the article we have "Montville noted)
I've tweaked that. Montville is now present tense except when definitely dated.. Stout is still with us.
  • "Ruth's penchant for hitting home runs altered how baseball is played." Seems like a "legacy" statement rather than contemporary impact
Yes, but the game changed while he was still playing it.
  • Ruth Cleveland has a WP article & can therfore be linked
  • Likewise, the most recent events concerning the "Baby Ruth" candy bar are hardly "contemporary impact". I'd say the whole para could easily be transferred to the legacy section.
  • Is there any example of "Ruthian" having this meaning outside the baseball context?
  • "...fictions about Ruth, and in the case of the latter film, the impression that Ruth was overweight throughout his career, rather than just in the later part of it." Well, he did weigh 260lb in 1925, which is hardly "the latter part of his career".

Nothing to add. This is a most affecting article, and needs only minor polishing, in my view, to meet the FA criteria. I found it absorbing enough barely to notice the length. The only area which I think needs careful watching is the dividing line between what is acceptable in baseball reporting, and what is admissable within a formal encyclopedia article. I have highlighted a few instances which I think need to be looked at again, but there are no major concerns. Brianboulton (talk) 18:31, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. I think I've addressed everything.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:20, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
I'll chime in when I can as well. I've made a few minor changes in the References and External links sections for clean up. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:14, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
And I just fixed three dab links. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:27, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
Many thanks. THe more the merrier.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:39, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
I'll be clocking in as well, but not till BB has finished. Shall watch this review page and report for duty after Brian has done the hard work. Tim riley (talk) 18:32, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Tim riley[edit]

Coming on after the Boulton cavalry has swept through the battlefield is an excellent arrangement. I can just bayonet the wounded here and there.

  • First lot, to end of Early years (leaving the lead till last, as I prefer to do):
    • "the date of his parents's marriage" – I continually bleat on about possessive forms – Jones's rather than Jones' – but even I boggle a bit at parents's.
    • "during his well-compensated baseball career" – compensation suggests making up for some unpleasantness rather than for playing a sport he enjoyed. Perhaps just "well-paid"?
    • "George rarely was visited by his family" – I'd replace the name with a pronoun, and perhaps "rarely was visited" might flow better as "was rarely visited"
    • "made for righties" – the meaning is abundantly clear, but I question if "righties" is encyclopaedic language. It certainly ain't in these islands, and I speak as a militant left-hander who notices these things.
  • Baltimore Orioles
    • There are a lot of differing statements before we get to the cluster of citations 19, 20 and 21. Could they be conveniently distributed among the earlier individual statements?
    • "Dunn also became his guardian" – Does that mean his legal guardian, in loco parentis and all that?
There's enough doubt on this one that I'm removing it.
    • Second para: two "likely"s in two sentences.
    • "most center around" – there are those (of whom I am emphatically not one) who get aerated about "center around" on the grounds that it's a logical impossibility. I find it expedient to accommodate this fetish by writing "center on".
    • "him being referred to" – I'd make this a gerund – his being referred to – but that may just be me, in my wing-collar, pince-nez and spats.
    • "who was also dangerous at the plate" – does this mean dangerous as a batter? Just asking. I suppose you can reasonably assume that anyone reading a substantial article on a baseball player will understand (as I do not) the basic terms of the game.

I have never seen a baseball match or read an article on the subject, but I can truly say I am enjoying this. More anon. Tim riley (talk) 23:15, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Second lot, down to end of Sale to New York
  • Boston Red Sox (1914–1919)
    • "and was thereafter little-used" – I get in a dither about hyphens, but I'm reasonably sure you don't want one here.
    • "As a batter, in his major-league debut, Ruth went 0-for-2 against left-hander Willie Mitchell, striking out in his first at-bat, before being removed for a pinch hitter in the seventh inning" – just a mild English observation that there's a helluva lot of technical terms in that sentence. I'm not objecting, or even demanding a translation, but pray keep in mind that, e.g., a "pinch hitter" is as incomprehensible to those in Commonwealth Countries as "silly mid-on" is to you over there.
I know, but I'm loath to link every baseball term. It can't be toned down lest the ninety and nine not have their expectations fulfilled.
As it happens, the term "pinch-hitter" is pretty well known here and in the Commonwealth, to followers of limited overs cricket. A pinch-hitter is a fast-scoring batsman sent in early in an innings to knock the opening bowlers out of their stride. Sanath Jayasuriya of Sri lanka was famous for pinch-hitting in the 1996 Cricket World Cup. Chris Gayle is a current example for the West Indies. Perhaps the term has a similar connotation in baseball? Brianboulton (talk) 22:55, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Linked and point taken.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:16, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "quickly acquired tastes for food, liquor, and women" – I imagine he had a taste for food from a much earlier age than this, as we all do. Perhaps "fine food" or similar?
    • "hold onto first place" – this may be a transatlantic difference, in which case ignore, but I think "onto" needs to be two words in this context. (Isn't there a Gershwin song, "Hang on to me"?)
    • "Phillies ace Grover Cleveland Alexander" – I swear you make these names up, Wehwalt. We had a cricketer whose full name was William Gladstone Grace" – not!
I blame the parents.
  • Emergence as a hitter
    • "The United States's entry" – as with earlier possessive apostrophes, above, I'm uncomfortable with the s's here. As a rough guide to myself I speak the phrase aloud, and then write what I say. In this case it isn't "Stateses", but perhaps you demur, in which case I withdraw.
    • "World War I" – I can't provide chapter and verse but I have an idea that linking to this war and WW2 is now regarded as WP:OVERLINK. I may be delusional, however.
    • "had many holes in the Red Sox" – suggestion (perhaps deliberate and mischievous?) of sewing or darning here. Perhaps "vacancies"?
I think this is where baseball lingo doesn't allow for alteration.
    • "Ruth hit .300" – showing my complete ignorance: is the period correct before 300?
Yes. It is a baseball statistic.
    • "Ruth pitched 29⅔ - I believe I have seen that the neat formatting of the fraction as here is not compatible with screen readers for visually impaired users. I just flag this us and do not press it, as I really don't know the facts.
  • Sale to New York
    • "According to one of Ruth's biographers, Jim Reisler" – with my musical bias I enjoyed this paragraph, but I'm afraid I must question its importance in the whole long narrative, and I'd be inclined to consider blitzing it. Frightful cheek, and I'm quite prepared to be told to get lost.
It is, in my view, part of the Ruth legend, and has to be addressed in this article or people will put it in wrong. Generations of Boston young have been told of how Harry Frazee sold Babe Ruth to finance No, No, Nanette.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:53, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "Cynics have suggested" – does your source justify the word "cynics" here?

More anon. – Tim riley (talk) 20:03, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for soldiering through this. I will have to check on the cynics tomorrow, I fear.
To the end of Boston Braves
  • 1920–1923
    • "Ruth rewrote the record books" – a lively image, but not quite literal enough for an encyclopedia article, perhaps.
    • "flirting with first place" – ditto
    • "decimated" – Pedantry Alert: it may one day be universally accepted that "decimated" no longer means "reduced by one tenth", but not while I'm alive
    • "that broke on September 28" – which broke, as this is not a defining clause rather but a descriptive one
    • "but drew 1.2 million fans to the Polo Grounds" – is this strictly correct? Selling 1.2m tickets doesn't mean there were 1.2m fans – many, perhaps most, of those attending one match surely also attended most or all of the other matches for which the total 1.2m tickets were sold.
    • "On March 6, 1922, Ruth signed …" – there are eleven "Ruth"s in this para, some of which could be replaced with a pronoun to the advantage of the flow
  • 1924–1925
    • "binging" – correct spelling? Over here we'd write "bingeing", I think, but perhaps this is a US/UK thing.
  • Boston Braves (1935)
    • "A's owner/manager" – have I missed an earlier explanation of what "A" stands for in this context?
A's is the common abbreviation for the Philadelphia Athletics' (now Oakland Athletics) team name (as shown by their team logo). Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talkcontributions) 15:35, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Last lot will be with you shortly. Tim riley (talk) 09:08, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. I will get back with these by Saturday as I am traveling right now.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:33, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Thursday 10 April 2014, 21:33 UTC)----

Woman Seeking Dead Husband: Smokers Okay, No Pets[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because I hope to bring this successfully through FAC as the first in what will hopefully be several featured articles in my Psych (season 1) topic. There is not too much to go on for this article. Only two major critics reviewed the episode, and there is not too much in the way of production information. However, this is probably the best article there could be with the provided info. My biggest concern is prose, since history has shown that I'm not the strongest writer. All comments appreciated.

Thanks, Awardgive. Help out with Project Fillmore County 00:00, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

  • Your writing is repetitive in a lot of places. Something to look out for is variety in the way you construct your sentences. For example, take a look at the first para of Reception. The sentences begin "The episide was", "It aired", "The episode aired", "The episode was". See the pattern? Not a big deal for a GA but it will not pass for FA criteron 1 (brilliant prose).
  • Here's an example fix: Instead of "The episode was rebroadcast by the National Broadcasting Corporation (NBC) on August 7, 2006, due to the network's struggling ratings.", you could write "Due to the network's struggling ratings, the National Broadcasting Corporation (NBC) rebroadcast the episode on August 7, 2006." That's an improvement not only because it introduces variety, but because I put the the subject of the sentence before the verb and object. Make sense?

I'm going to continue looking, but I won't make too many detailed prose comments since I think a lot of the sentences are going to have to be rewritten based on what I said above. You will probably have to work with a good copy editor. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 16:37, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Wednesday 2 April 2014, 00:00 UTC)----

Big the Cat[edit]

A logical next step for my second-favorite purple cat from Sonic, as I'm considering taking Sonic characters to WP:FTC and that will require a few FAs. As of yesterday, Big seems to have found something green, if not his frog. I think he should get a gold star for his valiant efforts, so I've taken him here first. Of particular concern is the use of the second-tier gaming site Cheat Code Central as a source; it's an opinion piece by a decently established editor on the site, but I'd still like weighings-in on whether it seems reliable enough in context. I'd also particularly like input on whether some additional non-free image would be ideal, as this was suggested during GAN, and on the article's wording. As always, though, all comments are appreciated.

Thanks, Tezero (talk) 22:59, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Spike Wilbury[edit]

  • I'm not concerned about the use of Cheat Code Central, personally (although that doesn't preclude someone calling it into question at FAC). It is an opinion peace, but you're using just to express the author's opinions. Looking at the site, they seem to have an editorial process in place which usually means fact-checking as well. It would help if you could produce any known reliable sources (like gaming sites or magazines) that refer to CCC as reliable or authoritative.
  • Check refs for dead links and put correct archive URLs in the citations using the archiveurl and archivedate parameters.
  • "and has made playable and non-playable appearances in other games" This doesn't fit well with the structure of the rest of the sentence; maybe it can be made into its own sentence? Also, do you mean other Sonic games only, or other games in general?
  • Is the character being derided by the fanbase sourced? I can only find that statement in "Big's reception by critics and fans alike has been strongly negative", which is sourced to an article that's a dead link for me. Making a sweeping statement about fanbase reaction will require more (and better) sourcing.
  • Fixed the dead link (God, and this one's used in a number of other articles) and removed the part about the fanbase. Tezero (talk) 17:22, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "His poor reception and apparent uselessness caused Sonic Team to remove him from any future games in 2012" This seems awkwardly written to me. How about: "Due to his poor reception and apparent uselessness, Sonic Team stopped including him in games in 2012"
  • Reworded. Tezero (talk) 21:06, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
Conception and creation
  • "Rumors persist that Big was created to capitalize on the Dreamcast's fishing peripheral" Careful with phrases like this that suggest currency. The source dates to 2011; do the rumors persist even today? How does the source discuss it, and how did the author know the rumors were "persisting"? Did Iizuka state as much in the interview? Do you read German fluently? If not, how did you translate the article? Google Translate is not very good at getting a properly nuanced translation for more than very basic facts.

Need to take a break because my internet service is dodgy at the moment, but will be back with more. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 15:39, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

  • I'm concerned with the use of the Blistering Thumbs site as a source. Looking at the archive, there is not really any indication of any fact-checking or editorial process on the site, or any indication of how "Richard Coombs" is notable and why we should take his opinion seriously. As you saw, the site was taken town and folded into That Guy with the Glasses earlier this year. This is a critical problem because you have several citations to the Coombs article. As with the use of CCC, these will probably be challenged at FAC and you will need to produce reliable sources naming BT and CCC good sources of criticism.
  • ...Fuck. Fuck. You're right. I could've sworn it was a known reliable source here, although looking back, it may have just been that I hit "preview", saw that it was bluelinked in the citation, and figured that was good enough. I may keep it for the time being at a few other Sonic character articles as some extra weight so they don't get AfD'd, but I've removed all references to it here. Tezero (talk) 21:06, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
  • I don't think it's a huge deal, and it's probably fine for GA, but it's just one of those things someone might bring up at FAC. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 22:12, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
  • No, you're spot-on; they totally will, and it's better to replace it as necessary now, when I have time and am not risking the deadly Oppose vote for poor sourcing. I just wish I could find another source that summarized how Big's thought of overall. It's frustrating; I know I've seen some from definitively reliable publications, but they're not turning up now. Tezero (talk) 23:26, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Nothing should be in the infobox that's not also written about and sourced in the article text. For example, the "voiced by" fields. You should write about those people in the appropriate headings and make sure to include sources. Those can be primary sources (like credits, instruction booklets, etc.)
  • Seems generally well-written and complete; I didn't notice anything I would change in the writing. You did ask about non-free images, and I actually find it curious that you decided to include an image that doesn't actually depict Big. Rather than adding another image, I would considering replacing the current one with one that depicts Big in the midst of some key game-play.
Reception and impact
  • Looks well-written, and it seems that you gathered as many sources as are likely to be available.

I think that's it. Let me know if you have any follow-up questions. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 13:54, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Friday 28 March 2014, 22:59 UTC)----

Engineering and technology[edit]

Robert Stephenson[edit]

Previous peer review

I closed the previous PR with no comment a couple of weeks, as I needed to take a wiki-break. I've re-listed this article because after writing a number of articles about historical railways, I thought I'd write a biography. I would like to get this FA; please let me know if you think anything is missing or the a section of prose really doesn't work.

Thanks, Edgepedia (talk) 12:16, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from David Cane

  • Introduction
    • Without looking at the reference "The only son of George Stephenson, who has been called the "Father of Railways"" is ambiguous as to whether it is Robert or George who has been called the "father of railways". I suggest that you change to "The only son of George Stephenson; he has been called the "Father of Railways""
      • Done
    • Avoid putting information only in the introduction. It should summarise information from the rest of the article, so should not need citations.
      • Doing, need to consider best place for this... **
  • Early life
    • "to a two rooms in a cottage" - remove the "a".
      • Done
    • Explain why it is relevant that Robert's right arm was stronger.
      • From the phrasing in Jeaffreson I take this to mean he was left handed, but this is not clear; I'll see if I can't find anything in Ross about this. I might take it out.
        • Frustratingly, Ross just quotes Jeaffreson without coming to a conclusion. Edgepedia (talk) 19:12, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "Betrothed" and being "summoned back to get married" seem archaic. I suggest "engaged to be married" instead of betrothed, although this, her literacy and her church attendance seems tangential to Robert's life story.
      • (1) Rephrased and (2) I mention Robert's faith later, so I considered he faith of his Aunt and father important, as they probably influenced this
        • I removed the literacy comment through Edgepedia (talk) 17:24, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
    • When did Robert first go to school in Long Benton?
      • This is not known (Ross p. 31).
    • Is there a reason why "(Tommy)" is inserted into Thomas Rutter's name? Is he particularly known by this name?
      • Some sources say Thomas, some Tommy
    • Link picks so it is clear there was a degree of burdensomeness in his task. The age at which he was doing this might be interesting, though it does seem as if his biographers were attempting to imbue him with heroic stature.
      • Done, from Ross, taking pickaxes to smiths was a common task for young boys at this time.
    • "George was promoted in 1812 to be enginewright at Killingworth Colliery with a salary of £100 per year; he built his first steam locomotive, Blucher, in 1814 and the following year was earning £200 a year." Needs to be split into sentences. At the moment it covers three years without a pause. I suggest a full stop after "£100 per year".
    • You use both "per year" and "a year".
    • Give a current equivalent for £100/year and £200/year.
      • Done these three; I though we only need one conversion as the second is clearly double the first
    • Lost most of his accent. State what accent he would have had (Tyneside?).
      • Done
    • A comma is needed before the "but" after "(16 km)"
      • Done
    • "his father and him" - change to "he and his father"
      • Done
    • "after school" following "in the evening" seems redundant
      • Removed
    • Make the piece about the sundial a new sentence. It does not naturally follow the designing of steam engines so a semi colon is not a strong enough break.
      • Removed
    • If Elizabeth's brother stated that he introduced George and Elizabeth in 1818 or 1819 and the Smiles biography was corrected for this, wouldn't that seem to be more reliable than the later biographies that may have just repeated Smiles' original error?
      • Just covering all the bases and allowing the reader to form an opinion. See if I can get other views.
        • Thinking about it, my concern is that if we leave it out, others will add it. Edgepedia (talk) 18:52, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
    • Start a new sentence at "unable to buy a mining compass..."
      • Used 'and' to join the two clauses together instead
  • Stockton and Darlington Railway
    • "Ways were investigated in the early 19th century to transport coal from the mines" and "canals had been proposed". Who investigated and proposed?
      • Isn't too much detail for this article? This is detailed in the Stockton and Darlington Railway article
    • "Welsh Engineer" -> "Welsh engineer". A link to Wales here might be appropriate.
      • Done
    • Is it necessary to state that Edward Pease was a Quaker? Put this in the note with the other information on Quaker backing.
      • I mention Quaker (once) again. Perhaps we consider both together?
    • Was Pease just a backer or the instigator of the scheme for the S&DR? Did Overton make his survey for Pease or for others?
      • Pease backed a already formed scheme, I believe. Will see what I can dig up. No, Pease was a prompter at the meeting; this is not clear in Allen, but is in Tomlinson.
    • The new route would have required a new bill to be presented. Use "an Act" rather than "the Act" this first time and link to Act of Parliament.
    • Note 5: Presumably Wood is Nicholas Wood, though it is not mentioned previously that he was involved with the S&DR proposals. How was he involved? Where had Stephenson and Wood "travelled down" from?
      • He travelled with George from Killingworth. Don't think he wasHe wasn't involved with the S&DR, just a travelling companion and witness.
    • Why was Pease concerned about Overton's competence?
      • I'll see if I can find any details; perhaps these would be better in the S&DR article?
        • I've removed it, it's not in all the biographies. Will see if I can find something for the S&DR article. Edgepedia (talk) 19:37, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
    • Which "work was hazardous" to Robert? Presumably working down the mine, but coming after the mention of his father surveying a new route this is ambiguous.
      • Changed to his work
    • Current equivalent for £660/year. George was now pretty affluent so an indication of what this would be worth would be useful
      • Done, although a comparison with the average wage could be more useful
    • Why did Robert spend only six months at Edinburgh University? Was that the intention or did he leave early to help his father on the S&DR? What did he study? Explain why it is relevant that Robert met George Parker Bidder there.
    • Change "whilst" to "while". Americans have a big problem with this at FAC.
      • Found two and changed them
    • "On 23 May 1823 the second S&DR Act received Assent"; put a comma after "1823" and change "the" to "a". Add "Stephensons' proposed" before "deviations".
      • Missed this, now done. Edgepedia (talk) 19:09, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
    • In June 1823, Robert Stephenson was not yet 20 years old. Current equivalent for £200/year.
      • It seems Rolt miscalculated, so I removed it.
    • Hagger Leases branch, needs a bit more explanation.
      • Not quite sure what you were asking for, clarified a bit [1]. Is this what you meant? Edgepedia (talk) 17:01, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
    • Chronology is getting out of sequence. Put the sentence about the locomotive order after the bit about the branch line act.
      • Done
    • Remove last sentence as it pre-empts the next section. I suggest you just state that the line opened on 27 September 1825.
      • Ok, I've joined the sentences together.

- More to follow. --DavidCane (talk) 13:24, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks DavidCane, done some of this, doing the rest ... Edgepedia (talk) 18:05, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
Think I've covered or made on comments everything above, except for the lead which I would like to come back to at the end. Edgepedia (talk) 17:01, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Saturday 19 April 2014, 12:16 UTC)----

Nanostim Leadless Pacemaker[edit]

Thanks, Laurakoehler (talk) 19:44, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Comments from EricEnfermero

I'm fairly new at PR but I am happy to leave a few comments.

  • Should the article be moved at some point to Nanostim leadless pacemaker? It seems this is reflected in the company's literature.
  • Per WP:LEAD, that section should summarize the body of the article. It shouldn't introduce significant facts omitted from the body.
  • Are there independent sources that could replace some of the uses of the company's product information?
  • I think that the article could benefit from some background on pacing before detailing the advantages of the Nanostim.
  • The Advantages section doesn't list that many advantages. Maybe it's just a matter of titling the section differently.
  • Check the article for redundant language such as "there still remains a considerable..." - WP:GOCE may be able to help.
  • I would also try to avoid subjective language like "remarkable" and "unique", except maybe in direct quotes.
  • "subjected to harsh environments and mechanical stress..." - not 100% clear on the harsh environments.
  • There is extraneous punctuation in the Advantages section. Again, a GOCE copyedit may help.
  • I would expect a History section to take a more chronological approach. I would start with the 1950s.
  • "feasibility of these pacing systems has shown to be successful" - feasibility and success are different concepts.
  • Because you talk about phases later, I would use a different term for the 1970 research.
  • By "initial technical difficulties with intracardiac pacing", do we just mean the need for leads? That sentence needs a reference.
  • How big is a traditional pacemaker? I'm assuming you mean the dimensions here.
  • "catheter-based delivery system originating from the femoral vein" - imprecise; originates in a factory, not from a vein. May help to make those two separate sentences.
  • Avoid the use of "currently" per WP:WTW; might use "as of" instead.
  • Two references to Phase II trials. Should the second one be Phase I?
  • I would like a little more specific information on risks of pacemakers and this device.
  • There is no mention that Nanostim was its own company until it was purchased by SJM.

Good luck with this entry. It's a pretty fascinating topic! EricEnfermero HOWDY! 09:50, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Monday 17 March 2014, 19:44 UTC)----


Just did a split on the article. Really need advice on clean up.

Thanks, Serialjoepsycho (talk) 20:37, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Cas Liber[edit]

  • Too many sentences star with "On date x,..." -see my tweaks
  • I am not familiar with it and have no idea what it is at first read - it needs a description section of what it is before launching into the timeline.
  • Is there any review/feedback/criticism that can be added? Any models/upgrades that worked better or worse than expected?

Good luck...Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:41, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Monday 3 March 2014, 20:37 UTC)----


Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band[edit]

Previous peer review

I've listed this article for peer review because – after a successful GAN – I would like more input before I nom the article at FAC.

Thanks, GabeMc (talk|contribs) 16:35, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments by Wasted Time R


  • This gives the recording begin date as 6 December 1966 but the article text says sessions began 24 November 1966. Maybe the text should clarify that the recording of the first song that made it onto the album was 6 December.
Fixed. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
  • The chronology 'next' link to The Beatles' First seems unwarranted to me. It's very obscure and if the article on it is correct, it was a re-release of a 1964 original release.
Fixed. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)


  • This was shortened from four to three paragraphs during the GA review due to a misunderstanding by the reviewer. At 50 kB readable prose size, the article definitely merits a four paragraph lead and I think the old one should be reinstated.
Restored. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
  • In particular, the old lead had all the different musical styles on the album, which is very important, and also the three most well-known songs from it ("With", "Lucy", "Day"), which any album article lead should include.
Restored. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
  • The reviewer also didn't like "is widely regarded as one of the most influential albums ever recorded" in the lead and it was removed. I disagree that these are 'weasel words'; they are true, are borne out by the article text and its cites, and even by those who think the album is overrated on its artistic merits would agree that it has been very very influential. Now maybe one could argue that the new third (old fourth) paragraph is enough on this count, but I still think it's worth saying where you had it.
I think they made a good point in that its a bit strong to state without a direct quote, so I've restored the point as a quote. Let me know if this is an adequate solution. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
  • The one thing I wouldn't restore from the old lead is "their work on songs such as "Strawberry Fields Forever", "When I'm Sixty-Four" and "Penny Lane" ..." This would be confusing to less expert readers who might conclude that the first and last of these are on the album. Better to leave that for the article body.
Removed. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
  • It might be a good idea to give the years of the Larkin and Rolling Stone best-ever lists.
Done. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)


Removed. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Same with the link in "send out four waxworks ... "
Removed. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
  • I'm not at all convinced by the theme of the second paragraph, which seems to be that the end of touring allowed them to make a great record. They had been making great records all along during the touring era. When did Lennon say "We're fed up with making soft music for soft people"? The Beatles never made "soft music" at any point in their career; this sounds like one of those 'Lennon is liable to say anything' remarks that can be disregarded. When did McCartney say "Now we can record anything we want ... and what we want is to raise the bar a notch, to make our best album ever"? They had already done just that twice, with Rubber Soul and Revolver, while they were still touring! They could largely ignore the material from those albums when putting together their set lists. I agree that the end of touring was a significant change in The Beatles' history, and yes it gave them the time and freedom to further push the boundaries, but they were already pushing those boundaries anyway and I think this paragraph is overstating the case.
I'm not sure that I agree with you, but more to the point every source that I used for the article made a strong point about the retirement as the key moment that allowed the Beatles to spend so much time on a record; its used quite literally by everyone to set the stage. While its true that their previous releases are considered as good if not better than Pepper, I think the point here is that they finally had the freedom to take 5 months to record without having to fulfill any other commitments during that time. E.g. spending 55 hours on "Strawberry fields" and 35 hours on "A Day in the Life" would not have been possible under a deadline. Further, they left to tour Germany just two days after completing Revolver, which must have put a strain on those sessions, or at the very least they felt compelled to finish the album before the tour lest they miss a contractual deadline. This point is reinforced by the fact that two of the first three songs that they recorded were pealed-off for a single. Maybe I'm not making the point in the best way possible, but the sources are adamant and consistent that retirement from touring afforded them the freedom to work unencumbered, making the elaborate and indulgent Sgt. Pepper recording sessions possible. Had the Beatles committed to another tour for say, January or February 1967 Pepper would have been a much different album. Any thoughts? GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

More later. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:56, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to help out, Wasted. As always, you're comments are most helpful; I look forward to the rest! GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:06, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Wednesday 23 April 2014, 16:35 UTC)----

1998 FA Charity Shield[edit]

The 1998 FA Charity Shield was played between Arsenal and Manchester United, two of English football's well-documented clubs. I'd like to nominate this article at FAC, hence why I've listed it for a peer review. Any sort of comment would be welcome, particularly to check if the summary reads 'encyclopedic'. Thanks, Lemonade51 (talk) 22:16, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Monday 21 April 2014, 22:16 UTC)----

Matt Lepay[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because that's what you do.

Thanks, TheWarOfArt (talk) 16:24, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Monday 21 April 2014, 16:24 UTC)----

Hinukh people[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because I just made some translations from ruwiki. I need a general review regarding the grammar and other issues.

Thanks, Ali-al-Bakuvi (talk) 12:23, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Monday 21 April 2014, 12:23 UTC)----

Despicable Me 2[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because I want to nominate it for GA later if it meets criteria.

Thanks, Captain Assassin! «TCG» 02:32, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Monday 21 April 2014, 02:32 UTC)----

Digor people[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because I just made some translations from ruwiki. I need a general review regarding the grammar and other issues.

Thanks, Ali-al-Bakuvi (talk) 13:08, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Saturday 19 April 2014, 13:08 UTC)----

Trouble (Natalia Kills album)[edit]

Previous peer review

I've listed this article for peer review because I've been meaning to make it FA-class for a while now and I'd like that to happen eventually.

Thank you for reading and don't feel obligated to comment, however I would appreciate it a lot! Thank you! :) prism 15:28, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from XXSNUGGUMSXX
  • Don't need the "exec" bit in producers field of infobox
  • The info contained in the "background" section all belongs in the Perfectionist album page, not here. Find some info for this album if such a section is to be included.
  • In "development" section, there is no need to mention people's nationalities
  • In "artwork" section, just use ref#24 once at the end of the second paragraph per WP:OVERCITE
  • More WP:OVERCITE in "composition" section- after ref#31, just use ref#29 once at the end of the second paragraph
  • The Hall & Oates picture isn't really needed, if anything use someone who worked on any of the album's tracks
  • In "reception" section, I strongly recommend removing Huffington Post (ref#56)- they're known for fraudulence in things like politics, science, and medicine.
  • More WP:OVERCITE in "reception" section- ref#54 (AllMusic) should just be used at the end of the "rating of three and a half points out of five" bit. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 17:34, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
Comments from WikiRedactor
  • There are two external links that may need to be corrected, although if I'm not mistaken citations often have this "problem" even though the links go through smoothly. Long story short, it's probably not going to be an issue.
  • All of the pictures should include altnernate text.
  • I would link "studio album" in the introduction.
  • Since the "Background" section is kind of small, you could probably merge them into one paragraph and add it to the "Development" section, which I would suggest renaming "Background and development".
  • I would mention that the album credits are adapted from the liner notes of Trouble in the "Track listing" section, like how it is in the "Personnel" section.
  • You might be interested in moving the "Release history" references into a separate column, although that is purely a matter of personal preference.

The article is definitely in good condition, and is well on its way to becoming an FA! WikiRedactor (talk) 19:27, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Wednesday 16 April 2014, 15:28 UTC)----

2013 Mudsummer Classic[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because I have intentions to nominate this page for GAN, and I can not seem to find anything else to add to improve this page.

Thanks, NFLisAwesome (ZappaOMati's alternate account) 20:37, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments by Royalbroil[edit]

  • LCQ wasn't spelled out as "last chance qualified"
  • I don't understand how NASCAR can classify Eldora as an intermediate track even though it's shorter that the Bristol short track. You've reliably sourced it so you should leave it.
  • "dirt track ringer" should be defined
  • (suggestion) I heard that Goodyear started with a dirt modified tire...You could research and attempt to substantiate
  • lots of references need wikilinks
  • How is the "Racing News Network" a reliable source? Same with Catchfence. SB Nation looks iffy in reliability depending on the writer. The rest are good.

Overall, very well done! It's looking good for a GA run. Royalbroil 01:23, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Alright, so here's what I attempted to accomplish today before hitting the hay for the night: ZappaOMati 04:07, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Not too sure what you mean by that, but I presume you meant for put (LCQ) for "last change qualifier".
  • Already covered.
  • Replaced "ringer" with "specialist", since I assume most should know the latter's meaning much more than the former.
  • I'll check it out later.
  • I'll deal with that later
  • Replaced the Catchfence one with the Jayski team chart, which, although it doesn't focus on the topic particularly, it does still mention Joe as Jennifer's father. I took a look at the Racing News Network one, but I could not find another source with Tom Gideon (director of safety) stating the track is fine, instead finding a NASCAR spokesman and Smoke's assurances that the track is fine ([2]).
  • Catchfence reprints team press releases, so it's countable as a primary source - simple facts (such as the one that was cited here) can be cited using it, but not controversial ones. - The Bushranger One ping only 05:19, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
  • If that's the case, I'll just keep the Catchfence one in. Looking at the RNN one, meanwhile, it's written by Mark Aumann, a writer for, and IIRC, this same ref was formerly on, but I presume it was later transcluded onto RNN. Should the RNN ref stay? ZappaOMati 13:51, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
  • The big purge they did of's back content when they dumped Turner Sports was atrocious. If you're certain that it was an article that was originally on, putting "archived from...(etc.)" in the reference should work, IMHO. - The Bushranger One ping only 20:41, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Luckily, I did manage to find it ([3]). ZappaOMati 00:16, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Looking better! If you want to keep the Mark Aumann article that's fine- but I'd mention it in the GA nomination that he wrote for along with a link to prove that his writing has a history of proper vetting. Royalbroil 01:14, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Monday 14 April 2014, 20:37 UTC)----

Demi Lovato[edit]

Previous peer review

Since this article has reached GA, I am looking for input before I nominate this for FA. My goal is to have this be the "Today's featured article" for her 22nd birthday this upcoming August 20th. Any input would be appreciated. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 15:56, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

  • I regard the blog which is used to support the claim that she has a mezzo-soprano voice with a three-octave range as not reliable and unsuitable. Mind you, neither of these claims is particularly remarkable and I wonder whether the article would be better without it (and the corresponing category). -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:38, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
  • For now, I'll just go ahead and remove that bit. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 02:50, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

This is just an advice and you don't have to do this. Make sure you have archive back ups for every url in the article. The WayBack Machine will usually already have an archive page, but some pages aren't accepted by the Wayback Machine. In those cases, you'd use WebCitation. The last thing you want to deal in a FAC is broken link which, from my experience, occurs a lot. Erick (talk) 16:30, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Checklinks should help with that, thank you for the pointer. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 16:49, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Monday 14 April 2014, 15:57 UTC)----

WINC (AM)[edit]

This article was promoted to Good Article Status on April 10 and I am looking for a review of the article whole prior to taking the article to FAC. Advice is also welcome. Thanks...NeutralhomerTalk • 12:28, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Finetooth comments:

General thoughts

This looks to be in good shape, and I found very few minor things to fix. I was unable to find an example of an FA article about a radio station, so I'm thinking that this one could be the model if eventually promoted. Making it comprehensive (no easy task) will be important.

Non-U.S. readers might be puzzled by things that are common knowledge to U.S. residents. Readers in India may not recognize the name Patsy Cline, and lots of readers will know nothing about CONELRAD or the FCC. You have already provided links, but I'm thinking that brief in-text explanations might be useful too, though it will mean finding tidy RS summaries that can be cited.

It would be interesting to know more about the size and nature of the original listening audience and also how those changed with time. These are probably related to other variables such as the number of competing stations in the region, the changing population size and demographics, the changes in ownership and affiliations, and the changes in programming. I imagine, for example, that listeners had opinions about the change from a music station to a talk station and that WINC reached a larger and possibly different audience by increasing its transmitter power and by adding a sister FM station. In addition, competitors using radio, TV, or Internet transmission may have siphoned off some of WINC's original audience.

I wonder if and how the politics of the station changed with time. The current station features a lot of what some observers might describe as right-wing propaganda ("The Right Side of the Radio Dial"). If so, was that always the case? It appears not, from what's already in the article, but it's not clear when or why the change came about. Maybe with the switch to talk radio? Maybe with one of the changes in ownership? Maybe with changes in the audience?

Is anything else known about the economics of the station? Has it always been profitable? How many people work at the station?

There's mention of advertising minutes in the article. Is there any way to say who the main advertisers were or how the kinds of ads might have changed over time?


  • I would add to the lead that this station is in the United States.
    • Yes check.svg Done - NH
  • I'd include brief mention of the "Programming" section, and I'd include mention of the switch from music to all-talk.
    • Yes check.svg Done: I included a sentence about the switch to talk and the station's format. - NH
  • I'm not sure how a contest could short out telephone circuits. Maybe "The resulting thousands of simultaneous phone calls to the station shut down the local telephone system." Or something like that.
    • Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: I think it was because it was a 1947 phone system, making it easier to short out. That is how it was discribed by the owner, Richard F. Lewis, Jr., in the article at the time. The mention of the system shorting out was just used in a DYK. - NH


  • Say where WFVA was based, as you do with the other radio stations.
    • Yes check.svg Done - NH
  • "on the week of November 10, 1940" – "During" rather than "on".
    • Yes check.svg Done - NH
  • "At launch, the station broadcast at 250 watts day and night." – Would it be good someplace here to explain whether 250 watts is a little, average, or a lot? What was the range of the station?
    • Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: 250 watts is considered fairly low for an AM station. Unfortunately, I don't have any sources to back that statement up. The range was, probably, within the Winchester city limits. That is a guess, to be honest, as I don't have anything to back that up either. - NH
  • "The station was assigned the WINC call sign in early March 1941." – Might be good to say who assigns the call signs. I assume it's the FCC, but I don't know.
    • Yes check.svg Done: You are correct, it is the FCC which assigns call signs. I put "by the FCC" at the end of the sentence. - NH
  • "The station's first transmitter was a Western Electric type 310B." – This will mean nothing to most readers. I would link transmitter and also say something more about the Western Electric type 310B, if any RS can be found to explain it. Was it special in some way, better than other options?
    • Yes check.svg Done: I ditched this sentence. I included it as a neat piece of trivia, but you are right, it won't mean anything to most readers. - NH
  • "Lewis filed the initial application for a new station in Winchester, Virginia, with the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) on the week of November 10, 1940." – What was the population of Winchester at that time?
    • Yes check.svg Done: Population added, sourced via the University of Virginia. - NH

Post World-War II

  • The request for more power (500 and 1,000 watts) seems related to range, audience size, and marketing, but the reason for the requested shift to 950 AM is completely unclear to me. What would be better about 950 AM?
    • Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: That's a very good question. Fact is, I don't know. I'm not sure if they were trying to go for a lower frequency which allows for greater coverage or if they wanted to later expand to higher wattage, maybe even try for clear channel status. I'm just not sure. The information I have doesn't give a reason, unfortunately. - NH
  • Did Virginia Hensley sing more than once on WINC? If so, did she become Patsy Cline while still singing on WINC? Did she get paid by The Melody Playboys despite her offer to work for free? What did she sing on that first occasion?
    • Yes check.svg Done: Unsure if she ever got paid, nothing I can find states one way or another, but she did continue to perform on WINC. Not sure what she sang either. - NH
  • "In 1959, WINC engineer Philip Whitney designed a CONELRAD alarm device for FM stations." – I think this is the first mention in the article of an FM station. Did WINC have an FM sister station in 1959? If so, when was it added?
    • Yes check.svg Done: Added a quick blurb about it, with source. - NH
  • " early nationwide warnings in the event of possible enemy attack during the Cold War" – Link Cold War.
    • Yes check.svg Done - NH
  • "Whitney is also credited with creating many of the remote control systems used by radio stations, including the microwave remote control system." – How do radio stations use remote control systems? What for? Are microwave transmissions from tower to tower the main or only use? I'd add a link to microwave transmission to help readers with at least part of this. Are the transmissions incoming only, or do they go both ways, to and from WINC?
    • Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: As I understand it, stations use remote control systems to control a transmitter that is miles away. Essentially so they won't have to have a big tower in their back yard. Today, this is done via Studio/transmitter link and Transmitter/studio link. I'm not sure if Whitney created these systems or not. I can't find anything online stating one way or another. - NH

The 1960s through the 1980s

  • I'd recommend shortening the section head to "1960s through 1980s".
    • Yes check.svg Done - NH
  • In the 1965 logo in this section, the FM station is listed as WRFL. In the "The 1990s to present" section, the sister FM station is named WINC-FM. Some possibility for confusion exists here; maybe the call sign was changed at some point? If so, when and why? WRFL is now based in Lexington, Kentucky. Did the station move, or is there some other explanation?
    • Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: WINC-FM switched it's call sign to WRFL in 1949. In June of 1979, that station became WQUS, before switching back to the WINC-FM call sign on January 1, 1981. - NH
  • "The station was the first in Winchester to announce the assassinations of John F. Kennedy in 1963 and Robert F. Kennedy in 1968." – I think this is the first mention in the article of other stations in Winchester. What are the other stations? What kinds of programming do they offer that differ from WINC? Maybe the answers to this belong mostly in the final section of the article. It would be interesting to know if Winchester has an NPR station, a classical music station, a country-and-western station, a jazz station, and so on.
    • Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: In 1963, Winchester had three stations. WHPL 610 (now WXVA), WINC and WINC-FM. A fourth, WHPL-FM 102.5 (now WUSQ-FM) hadn't launched yet. No formats were available in the sources I have. By 1968, WHPL-FM was on the air, bringing the number of stations in Winchester to four. No formats were listed then either. Today, we have a selection of stations from country, to CHR, to rock, to AC, to religious. WMRA, the NPR station in Harrisonburg, Virginia (about 90 miles to our south) has a translator in Winchester, but no real programming comes from Winchester. I do list all the area stations in the market template in the "External Links" section. - NH
Oh, I just missed that. I didn't look at any of the collapsed lists at the bottom for info, but there it is. I leave it to you to decide whether to add any of this to the main text or not. – FT
I fear that would start bringing the scope of the article away from WINC (AM) if I were to add any about other stations. With WINC-FM, since it is the sister station, a quick mention I believe is OK. But others, like stations owned by other companies, would get beyond the scope of the article.
There is a "Sister Station" section in the infobox and the market template, which allows the reader to flip to other articles. I believe this would be enough of a mention for connected (ie: sister stations) and unconnected stations to WINC. That's just my opinion, though. :) - NH

1988 "Lottery" lawsuit

  • "Thomson analogized it to a contestant on Let's Make a Deal." – "It" is ambiguous in this sentence. Maybe: "Thomson compared the contest to Let's Make a Deal, a television game show in which winning contestants could choose to keep a prize or trade it for a chance at a bigger prize." If you use my suggestion, you'll need to add an RS for the last part of the sentence.
    • Yes check.svg Done: I changed it up to read: "Thomson compared the contest to the game show Let's Make a Deal". - NH

The 1990s to present

  • This section head might be better as "1990s and after".
    • Yes check.svg Done - NH


  • Link IMG?
    • Yes check.svg Done: I used IMG College instead. IMG the company is the umbrella name for everything they do from Art and Commerce, to Consulting, to Events, to Fashion. IMG College is the broadcasting arm of the company. - NH
  • Does WINC cover any local sports such as high school football?
    • Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: Not anymore. They did several years back, but to what extent, I'm not sure. - NH


  • The formatting looks good to me except for a few newspaper article titles that should be converted to title case. An example is citation 66: "Judge says WINC Radio Contest is Legal" in which "Says" and "Is" would be correct (initial cap letters on major words). In this same way, citation 52 is correct, but citation 76 is not.
    • Yes check.svg Done: I did my best with these. The one that confused me, ref #48, gave me some issues. I corrected it as "Voice of Prophecy" to Go on NBC on June 3, but I'm not sure if that is right. The word "Go" has me confused. - NH


  • I don't think you'll have trouble convincing everyone that one non-free image (the first logo) meets the WP:NFCC criteria, but it will be hard to convince everyone that you need four non-free images of logos. The last three seem mainly decorative to me, and I would try to replace them somehow. You could simply delete the 1941 logo since it creates a text sandwich with the infobox. You might consider using File:Patsy Cline II.jpg, File:HarveyPaul.jpg, or anything that seems to fit thematically.
    • Yes check.svg Done and Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: I removed the last two logos and kept the station's first, moving it down to the "World War II" section. Since it is the station's first logo, I'm hoping the historic value will be enough to keep it, but will cut it if necessary. I moved the picture of the station's studios down slightly. There is an old black and white photo of Patsy Cline in front of an old WINC microphone. The website is a fan page with alot of stories, old pictures and what not, says the information is copyright "EllisNassour", but I'm wondering if this person really owns the copyright to that photo. - NH
Yeah. People sometimes claim copyright even when they shouldn't. I've run into that with fan sites that sell old postcard images from before 1923. The Patsy Cline image is post-1923, so at this point there's not enough evidence to say one way or the other whether it's under copyright. Wikipedia can't use it without proof that it's in the public domain or otherwise licensed for copying, altering, and redistribution, essentially. Maybe WINC owns the original and could advise about its copyright status and/or license the image for use by Wikipedia. The official process is a bit tedious, so before pursuing this, you'll have to decide if the image is worth the trouble it might take to obtain it. – FT
I have a message into WP:IMAGEHELP to see if the above linked image might be allowed here on Wikipedia. I will let you know the outcome of that either here or on your talk. - NH
The image (both the one full image and the cropped one) come from an image that is copyright to "Frank Driggs Collection/Hulton Archive/Getty Images". So, we can't use it. :( - NeutralhomerTalk • 00:57, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

I hope this helps and that you'll be able to improve this one to FA. Holler if anything here is unclear. Finetooth (talk) 22:44, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

I have done my best with all of the suggestions. Some that I either haven't done, due to lack of information or whatever, I have marked with a Pictogram voting info.svg Note: mark. Others that I have finished, I have marked with a Yes check.svg Done mark, though some of those might have notes.
Please let me know if anything else needs cleaned up and I will work on those as quickly as I can. Thanks again for your help. :) - NeutralhomerTalk • 10:25, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
That was fast. I don't have any other ideas at the moment, but if something occurs to me, I will post another note here. Finetooth (talk) 16:31, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
When I'm excited about a project, I get to work. This one has me excited because it is just one of 2 GA radio stations in Virginia and will be the only FA station ever if promoted. Plus, it's the history of Virginia that gets me going too. - NeutralhomerTalk • 00:14, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Hamiltonstone comments I generally don't review these sorts of articles, so please disregard anything that seems inconsistent with, eg, wikiproject guidelines.

  • Linking "broadcasting" in the lead seems unnecessary
    • Yes check.svg Done - NH
  • The expression "news/talk/sports formatted" seems clunky and certainly not a prose style I'd expect at FA level. Also, each of those terms is linked, and I note the link for "news" is to "news only radio", yet this obviously isn't news only, because it is also doing talk and sports.
    • Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: This is the format given by Arbitron and the station. Some talk stations are just "Talk", some are "Talk/Sports" when they carry sports coverage, but ones that have their own news coverage, are "News/Talk/Sports". News radio, redirects to All-news radio, and doesn't always mean the station is all news, but that is carries news programming. - NH
  • While the lead refers to the current format of the station in this way, the body text actually does not define the station's format until the 1980s section. Why is that?
    • Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: The sources that I have available don't give a station's format (AM or FM) until the early 80s. From what I have heard, the station carried a Full Service/Variety format, but I don't have anything to back that up. - NH
  • The lead is too fragmentary / choppy to reach FA. Consecutive sentences are about unrelated content. While Patsy Cline is obviously a significant figure, in the lead it comes across as a piece of trivia / factoid that doesn't lead anywhere. Ditto the factoid about shorting out the phone system.
    • Yes check.svg Done: I expanded both the Patsy Cline and phone shorting blurbs. I have also expanded the CONELRAD blurb as well. - NH
  • The lead doesn't tell us whether it was or remained an AM band station.
    • Yes check.svg Done: I added "1400 AM" right after the initial call sign in the very first paragraph. - NH
  • "He did not foresee any changes to the stations" - repetition of word "station" in successive sentences sounds clunky.
    • Yes check.svg Done: I changed the first to sister stations (as it mentions WINC's sister stations), the second I switched to "company", and the third I left as is. - NH
  • "The sale closed in August 2007". What does this mean? Is this a technical term relating to how radio freuqencies are transacted? It was on offer but the sale closed without a buyer, or does the article mean the sale was successfully made for that sum?
    • Yes check.svg Done and Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: "Closed" is a real estate term, means the same thing here. The sale closed (money exchanged, signatures signed, etc.) in August of 2007. To make the term less confusing, I have linked the word "Closed" with Closing (real estate). - NH
  • The article begins by referring to Richard Field Lewis, Jr., and later has "Richard F. Lewis, Jr." at one point - it seems odd to have this relatively full version of his name in subsequent use. Why not just Lewis, or Richard Lewis? The article doesn't mention Lewis Senior at all.
    • Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: The first use of Lewis's name was the full "Richard Field Lewis, Jr.". To change things up, I used "Richard F. Lewis, Jr." and I used "Lewis" a couple times as well. I was trying to not use the same thing over. From everything I have found, Lewis, Sr. was never apart of the company. - NH
  • "the first to get through was from the telephone company informed Sheeler that his contest was jamming local phone lines" - missing word / syntax problem there somewhere.
    • Yes check.svg Done: I fixed that by switching it to "the first call" and breaking it into two sentences, it seemed to be a bit of a run-on. - NH
  • How could the phone company have been the first to get through? It seems impossible. After all, they would have had to react to the sudden influx of calls. Surely the first to get through would have been a random one of those first callers?
    • Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: The information I have is that the telephone company got through first. You may be right that a random person got through first, but the source I have says the opposite. :S - NH
  • Do we have an explanation available of the dismissal of the 1947 application for change in frequency and power?
    • Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: That one I actually dug for, because I was curious myself, but I couldn't find any reason. - NH
  • "WINC joined the NBC Radio Network on November 1, 1951, after more than 10 years as an ABC affiliate.[23] WINC rejoined ABC Radio, carrying both networks' programming, on January 18, 1952,[45] but dropped NBC programming in 1953". This passage raises more questions than it answers. How can one be a member of two networks simultaneously? Why did it drop the NBC programming after such a short period? I realise the sources may not be clear, but it seems like a major event that demands some sort of explanation.
    • Yes check.svg Done and Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: NBC Red became NBC, NBC Blue became ABC. Confusing, I know. So I added some "previously called NBC (color)" in parentheses to clear things up. I also have the name switch of NBC Blue to ABC listed and sourced several paragraphs above. - NH
      • Not sure that this has helped - it doesn't seem to address the issues I raised.hamiltonstone (talk) 12:39, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
        • Missed that part at the bottom. I honestly don't know why they switched from ABC to NBC and then back again. The information I have just mentions the switch. I do know the NBC Network went to WINC-FM. - NH
  • is it "a" CONELRAD device or "the" CONELRAD device - the lead implies that Whitney designed the concept and system, and there was only one such thing; the body text is more ambiguous, implying he may have designed one such alarm device, and there are others. Which is correct, and then copyedit the text to make it consistent and clear.
    • Yes check.svg Done: I fixed this when I fixed the CONELRAD reference in the lede. - NH
  • I thought Shenandoah was a place. How come there's a Shenandoah Apply Blossom Festival in this other town? And what on earth is a Queen of an Apple Blossom Festival?? And a Minister of the Crown has a particular meaning in Westminster system countries such as Australia and the UK. It obviously has some other meaning here, which is completely opaque to me.
    • Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: Shenandoah is town in Virginia, but it is named after the Shenandoah Valley. Since Winchester is named for Winchester, England, we take some of the terms from them. Each festival has a Queen, we do too. The Minister of the Crown is typically the father of the Queen. - NH
      • Thanks for the note, but it still needs fixing in the article. I'm sure a Virginian will understand this, but that leaves the rest of the English speaking world. And even the explanation you make here doesn't completely make sense to me. You say some of the terms from England, but I've never come across a festival queen, just a queen of the country :-) And no modern Minister of the Crown would be the queen's father. All in all, it remains bizarre. In any case, do you think it might be reaching a level of unencyclopedic detail for a radio station entry? hamiltonstone (talk) 12:39, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
        • You do have a point about how the mentions could be unencyclopedic. The reason I put them in the article was to explain why President Johnson was in town. I could change it to say "President Lyndon B. Johnson, visiting for the Apple Blossom Festival in 1964, was interviewed live on the station." Completely removing any mention of Queen, Minister of the Crown, or anything confusing. - NH
  • More generally, the whole first para of the 1960s to 80s section is a bit wierd. It is an assemblage of celebrity spots on the station. This section needs to be introduced with a more substantive para about the history of the station, rather than who happened to have sat in front of one of its mikes. It also refers to "The station was the first in Winchester to announce the assassinations..." My reaction to this was 'are you kidding? it's a town of 12 000 people. How could there possibly be any other stations?' The article has not mentioned any rivals, only that WINC was the town's first station.
    • Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: As I mentioned in the other PR above, in 1963, Winchester had three stations. WHPL 610 (now WXVA), WINC and WINC-FM. A fourth, WHPL-FM 102.5 (now WUSQ-FM) hadn't launched yet. By 1968, WHPL-FM was on the air, bringing the number of stations in Winchester to four. We are kinda of a centrally located town, so we got radio stations quicker than the towns around us (except for DC and Baltimore, of course). I didn't mention any rivals as I didn't want to move away from the scope of the article. There is a template box at the bottom with all the radio stations in the market. - NH
      • OK, well i still think there are things needing fixing here; the point about the rivals wasn't really my main issue. Actually, you've just identified a big gap in the article: no data about market share. hamiltonstone (talk) 12:39, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
        • I could move all celeb references to a sentence or paragraph of their own. I think it is worth mentioning that big name celebs and a sitting President were on the station's air. As for market share, are you meaning ratings? Because those will be tough to find. Arbitron, now owned by Nielsen, doesn't have back copies of seasonal ratings books. - NH
          • Well, if the para structure stays as-is, then give that first paragraph an introductory sentence. Like "In the 1960s, the station hosted interviews with several prominent figures". That said, I would also query the notability of a politician (other than the President) giving an interview at a radio station (what else are radio stations - at least news ones - there for?) I guess I may not be understanding the political culture. If a radio station only managed to interview one of its state's Senators / Congressmen in four years (as this implies), that suggests to me poor performance rather than the notability of the one interview it finally secured (and in several cases only because the person was around for some other unrelated reason). What am i missing here? hamiltonstone (talk) 12:51, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
            • It is very possible there were other politicians interviewed on WINC, I just have those. I cropped the mentions of Luci Baines Johnson, Harry F. Byrd, and Robert Byrd. I left Paul Harvey and President Johnson. Harvey being notable as he broadcast his "News and Comment" show to the entire nation from WINC. - NH
  • The article refers to "American Contemporary Network" (in quote marks). What is this, why is it in quote marks, and how can it be a "network" when that word is elsewhere used to refer to a group of related radio stations?
    • Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: The "American Contemporary Network" was one of four networks from ABC Radio back in the 80s. There isn't a page for it here on Wikipedia, so I used quotes. Mid-Atlantic Network, Inc. was WINC's previous owner, they were a radio network in the typical sense, just the name of the company. - NH
      • I think it is better without the quote marks. I'm afraid I don't follow what you're saying about the use of "Network" - you refer to "one of four networks from ABC Radio" but then later contrast this with a different use of the term: "Mid-Atlantic Network, Inc. ... were a radio network in the typical sense, just the name of the company". For me this highlights the confusion a reader of the article will have. It somehow needs to be clearer that the ACN is not actually a network but a... I don't know, a syndicated schedule of programming, or whatever? hamiltonstone (talk) 12:39, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
        • Yes check.svg Done and Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: Sorry, that should have read "they weren't a radio network in the typical sense". That's what I get for typing too fast. I removed the quotes from "American Contemporary Network". - NH
  • "dropping the AP" why "the"?
    • Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: "The AP" comes from "The Associated Press", AP being the nickname. "The AP" is what they call themselves. - NH
      • If they call themselves "The AP", why is the phrase earlier in the paragraph "became an affiliate of AP Radio"?
        • Yes check.svg Done and Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: This is where they get confusing. They call themselves "The AP", but don't call their radio division "The AP Radio". You'd think they would choose one or another. I changed "The AP" to read "the Associated Press". - NH
  • "On May 17, 2007, Mid-Atlantic Network, Inc., announced it was selling WINC,..." whoa, what's with all the commas? Surely "On May 17, 2007, Mid-Atlantic Network Inc. announced it was selling WINC," is enough?!
    • Yes check.svg Done: Fixed. I suck at commas. :) I always overuse them, so forgive me on that one. :) - NH

Hope these comments help.hamiltonstone (talk) 01:06, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

@Hamiltonstone:: I have done my best with all of the suggestions. Some that I either haven't done, due to lack of information or to answer any questions you had, I have marked with a Pictogram voting info.svg Note: mark. Others that I have finished, I have marked with a Yes check.svg Done mark, though some of those might have notes.
Please let me know if anything else needs cleaned up and I will work on those as quickly as I can. Thanks again for your help. :) - NeutralhomerTalk • 05:15, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
  • I still don't like the choppyness of the lead. I've made a bold attempt to improve it, and you can see what you think.
  • Like an earlier PR contributor, i think audience / market share information is important and probably needs to be hunted down for an article that is going to be comprehensive enough for FA. hamiltonstone (talk) 12:51, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
    • Lead looks good to me. On the audience/market share, are you meaning ratings? - NH
      • Yes, although anything else on the listening audience for that matter would help. But I just can't imagine an article about a broadcaster making FA without the reader having any information about who actually listened / watched or how popular the station was / is. hamiltonstone (talk) 13:26, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
        • OK, going back to the 40s, I don't think I will be able to find any ratings, cause I don't think the existed...yet. But I can give you how many "radio units" were available for a certain town or county. As you can see on this link, there was 2,968 radio units (or houses with radios) in 1942. Is this something you are looking for? Just to note, these were put out yearly. - NH
          • I can also give seasonal ratings from 1981 to about 2001. Beyond that, I can't do much as the information isn't available. How often should I put ratings information in or the "radio units" information? - NH
            • OK, I'd do a couple of things. In the 'pre-broadcast' section, I would work in a context sentence along the lines of 'In 1940, Winchester had a population of around X, and just under 3,000 radios were owned by households in the county [cite that 1940 magazine article]". Then, once you reach the period for which ratings first become available, I would add a sentence along the lines "In 1981, the first year for which ratings information is available, WINC had X percent of audience share in Winchester [or however it is expressed in the source]" then I would chose a couple of other points in time to quote audience share. These should be somehow linked to events in the station's history, or any notable shifts in the ratings. For example, You might note what its audience share was at the time it won that award for news spots (1988), when it underwent a significant format change (1992), and when all music was dropped and it became an AP affiliate (1996). I take it there are no ratings data for 2007 when the sale occurs? Why is that? Have agencies stopped gathering ratings data since 2001? hamiltonstone (talk) 23:54, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
              • Sure, that I can do, no problem. I won't be able to give the 1940 or 1941 "radio units" information, as the first year they came out was 1942, about 6 months after WINC went on the air. So not a big jump in time. The reason ratings aren't online or in book form after 2001 is a good question. R&R (magazine) previously had historic ratings on their website, but their owner, AC Nielsen, shut the site and magazine down in 2009. Unfortunately, you can't use the Internet Archive for that site. The other sites that are available for ratings don't store back editions of ratings books per Arbitron's rule that they don't. Typically, for historic ratings, you have to get them from the source (ie: Arbitron, now owned by AC Nielsen) and that costs a crapload of money. - NeutralhomerTalk • 08:17, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I was able to find the 2007 ratings from a different source. I found the '42 "radio units" information, no problem. The '81 and '96 are also on there. The one I had a problem finding was the 1992 ratings. The site I use didn't have that ratings book. I checked the '91 and '93 books and Winchester wasn't listed, so that wouldn't have helped anyway. - NH

  • Hi Neutral, that looks pretty good, but the first time you use them, you need to give the reader some sense of what those rating numbers mean. Are they percentages of radio listeners? Or something else?hamiltonstone (talk) 03:53, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
    • @Hamiltonstone::I looked for percentages, which would be ALOT easier to explain, but unfortunately I couldn't find them. I did, however, find a story about Nielsen buying Arbitron which explains TV and radio ratings. I linked the story as a reference with a quote (the explanation of ratings) beside each time I bring up the ratings in the article. This way, the reader is given an explanation as to what ratings are and the article doesn't veer off-topic. - NH

Mojo Hand comments:

  • For the lead, is "news/talk/sports" a defined radio format? If not, I think using slashes is too informal in the lead; perhaps you can use commas or explain the combination format.
    • Yes check.svg Done: I switched it from "news/talk/sports" to "news, talk, and sports". - NH
  • I think the first paragraph of the lead section should touch on the stations format(s) before the change in 1996 (though I wouldn't detail every change - just briefly mention the prior formatting).
  • The second paragraph of the lead feels a little scattered. It looks like the paragraph is a listing of milestones for the station, but there is nothing to tie them together. Perhaps we could start the paragraph with something like, "Several milestones have occurred during the station's more than seventy years of history."
    • Yes check.svg Done: Took the sentence you suggested and ran with it. - NH
  • The third paragraph of the section "Pre-broadcast and launch" seems disjointed - two sentences about the address and two sentences about population. I don't think it works as a cohesive paragraph.
    • Yes check.svg Done: I refined the population/radio stats part and moved it up slightly, merging the two sentences together. - NH
  • "Post World War II" section, last paragraph - I don't understand why the CONELRAD design is notable. Was it new or unique in some way? Whitney won an engineering award, so I assume it's notable, but I think we need to explain why.
    • Pictogram voting info.svg Note:: CONELRAD, which stood for Control of Electromagnetic Radiation, was the predecessor of today's Emergency Alert System and yesteryear's Emergency Broadcast System. "This is only a test....beeeep!" It was also the first of it's kind. There wasn't a system like it prior to 1951. The system, though, was only for warning of enemy attack during the Cold War. It became a dual-use system giving timely weather warnings (just like today) as well as the ever-ready warning to duck and cover. There was, prior to Whitney's invention, no way to relay those messages to radio stations. His alarm system made that possible. I worry, though, about going too in-depth about CONELRAD because it leaves the scope of the article. - NH
  • The "Sale" section paragraph needs better flow - perhaps restructure into two paragraphs?
    • Yes check.svg Done: I broke the paragraph apart into two, smaller paragraphs. I also tweaked some of the sentences and moved a couple around. - NH

I also made a couple of small edits myself. Overall, it's a well researched and comprehensive article, with very strong referencing. It's an excellent addition to the encyclopedia, and I hope my comments are helpful. Cheers.--Mojo Hand (talk) 03:38, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

@Mojo Hand:: I have done my best with all of the suggestions. I made a note on one, the CONELRAD one, which I marked with a Pictogram voting info.svg Note: mark. The rest I have finished and marked with a Yes check.svg Done mark, though some of those might have notes.
Please let me know if anything else needs cleaned up and I will work on those as quickly as I can. Thanks again for your help. :) - NeutralhomerTalk • 11:25, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Saturday 12 April 2014, 12:28 UTC)----

E.T. (song)[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because it has recently been promoted to a Good Article and I want to see how it can be further improved upon so that eventually it can be a Featured Article

Thanks, Giacobbe talk 18:33, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Comment: while it would definitely not be appropriate for me to peer review, I will help along the way with getting this to FA :). XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 18:57, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
Comments from Pedro
  • First of all, let me just say congratulations to you both for the work you did on this article. Amazing, considering how it was a year ago. I'm very glad to see this input to this song (it is one of my favorite Katy songs ever) and I think it could be improved even more. See Party (song), for example. It has two versions available (just like this song). Both were released as singles (here it's a little different, "E.T." [original] was released as a promotional single, nonetheless important just like "Walking on Air"); and both have relevant commentary and reviews, which probably is the case with the original version. I think if we work a bit into this, we can make something out like "Party"'s article, and I would definitely work on it if you don't mind it. prism 21:04, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
    • One question: is there artwork available for the solo version? If so, that would make things easier. Also, I'm not sure how charts and such would be split. Thanks for the basis, though. There is also the Christina Aguilera remix of Do What U Want (though only takes up roughly 15% of the article rather than about half). XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 21:15, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
      • Yes, there is. It was released in August 2010 exclusively to iTunes as a countdown single. The charts could be found by 2010 Billboard articles or by searching article history here (there must have been an article for it when it was first released). For Do What U Want there were some editors who thought an infobox was inappropriate for that case (which I don't really understand). Obviously the solo version of E.T. would take up a smaller portion of the article since it wasn't an international hit single (thus it didn't get much recognition worldwide, aside from the demo leaks etc.)... prism 21:25, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
        • I wasn't necessarily saying to have an infobox for Do What U Want. What I meant was that there is a section specifically dedicated to that edition of the song. Then again, Hot n Cold (which I reviewed and passed for GA) has an infobox for the "Woe, Is Me" cover and that edition doesn't take up much of the article..... XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 21:42, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
Comments from WikiRedactor
  • Interesting, I thought they had all been addressed when Zanimum passed the GAN..... though Yes check.svg Done
  • This actually never occurred to me before..... Yes check.svg Done
  • In "Music video", all three sections could probably be merged into one because none of them are large enough to need a courtesy break.
  • Perhaps, though I did this for if each subsection gets expanded
  • In "Release history", I would suggest merging the two tables into one table, since the first one only has one entry.
  • Yes check.svg Done
  • In "Certifications", I think you should convert the existing two-column certifications into a three-column version (like "Roar").
  • Can't seem to configure this :/, Giacobbe could you perhaps perform this?
  • In "References", I recommend organizing the citations in columns of three instead of two as they currently are.
  • Yes check.svg Done
  • In "External links", it might be helpful if the MetroLyrics link for the track was included.
  • I don't think it would hurt to include both, although if you have to pick one, I'd probably go with the regular album version. WikiRedactor (talk) 19:22, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

The article is certainly in good shape, and is well on its way to becoming an FA! WikiRedactor (talk) 21:39, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Note: We could all work on User:Prism/E.T.! prism 21:44, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Wednesday 9 April 2014, 18:33 UTC)----

I Need to Know (Marc Anthony song)[edit]

Previous peer review

I've listed this article for peer review because I want to see if can be improved further for a possible featured article nomination.

Thanks, Erick (talk) 06:58, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Tuesday 8 April 2014, 06:58 UTC)----

Flood (They Might Be Giants album)[edit]

Hi! I'd really like someone with more experience than me to have a look at this article I've been working on. This is the first article of this length/thoroughness I've written for Wikipedia. I'm not sure how to move forward so I would appreciate any advice. Unfortunately, I can't get much more specific since this process isn't very familiar to me. One thing is, though, I'm not sure exactly which date format to use. I realized that my usual convention of dd-m-yyy for publication dates and yyyy-mm-dd for access dates might not actually follow MOS and I'm not sure whether I should be using an American convention or whether non-US is okay. My other concern is that, since I am fond of the band and the album, there could be lapses in NPOV, so any commentary on that would also help. I might want to nominate it for GA at some point, but that's another thing I know very little about, so any advice specifically toward that end would be great.

Thanks, ~ Boomur [] 23:48, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Richard3120:
Great album and the article is looking in decent shape too. I would probably look at splitting off 'Artwork' and 'Style and composition' into separate sections from the 'Recording and production' section (see Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums/Album article style guide), and place 'Influence' after 'Critical reception' as it's more logical chronologically (I might also be tempted to rename 'Influence' as 'Legacy'). Regarding date formats, I'm British but I've always been of the opinion of using British date format for British articles ("9 April 2014") and American format for American articles ("April 9, 2014"). So I would choose either the "April 9, 2014" format or "2014-04-09" format, but keep it consistent throughout the references and don't mix the two (I prefer the first option myself, I think it looks tidier).
Regarding POV I don't think it's too bad: I think the pun on "flood" in the 'Influence' section may have to go, and to me the phrase "the quality of the album was augmented under the direction of..." in the lead section seems a little awkward.
Are you American or Canadian, or British? As is obvious from the chart performance section, the album and "Birdhouse in Your Soul" were sizeable hits in the UK. "Istanbul (Not Constantinople)" also made the UK charts, and I'm damn sure the album would have gone at least gold in the UK. I'll try and edit the article accordingly when I find the information tomorrow. If the GA nomination can wait a few months, I'll be back in the UK over the summer and will be able get a proper reference for the Q review and to dig out reviews from the UK's other major music magazines of the time (NME, Melody Maker, Record Mirror and Sounds) which can then be added to the critical reception section. Richard3120 (talk) 22:34, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
@Richard3120: thank you for your input! I've made preliminary attempts toward the changes you suggested, including changing "influence" to "legacy" (I think the latter clears up any confusion over whether the section refers to influences upon the album). I reorganized the sections somewhat, including merging style and composition, but I think that section might benefit from employing a subheading somewhere. I think I'm going to use the "April 9, 2014" format, as you suggested; even though I think 2014-04-09 is more logical, it's not as readable.
I am American, but the album came out before I was even born, so I don't have a great background for how it was received anywhere! I did find that "Istanbul" charted at #61 on the UK singles chart, according to TMBW. I'm guessing this is a reliable figure; however, obviously, other wikis are not RS. I think I remember that when I was writing the article, I couldn't find any online sources that listed weekly UK singles charts beyond the top 40. If you could add more info about UK charting and reception, or even just sources, that would be great. I'm in no rush to nominate for GA, in any case. Thanks for your comments! ~ Boomur [] 23:59, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
Ah, you see, Flood came out during my first year at university, so I remember well just how much of a surprise hit "Birdhouse" was, reaching the UK top ten (I suspect that by now it's sold somewhere around a quarter of a million copies in the UK, which I'm sure few Americans, least of all the two Johns, can believe) – it's still fondly remembered and it gets played frequently on "oldies" radio stations. I've added citations for its position on the Irish charts and for "Istanbul" on the UK charts (both of these are "official" sources so they're Wikipedia approved), and also a certifications table: I was right, the album did go gold in the UK.
I should also mention that as far as I can tell, "Twisting" only ever came out as a single in the US, nowhere else in the world – perhaps you might want to mention this somewhere in the article. Richard3120 (talk) 04:56, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Monday 7 April 2014, 23:48 UTC)----

Leonce and Lena[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because i need help to improve this acrticle. please be nice and tell me anything.

Thanks, Nossoju (talk) 15:38, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Gdirado[edit]


Lead section – The lead section is supposed to summarize the content of the article. As written now, it summarizes the history of the content of the play. All of this information is valuable, but should be moved to a section in the body of the article. I would suggest that you expand and properly cite this information in a Historical Context section.

Body – The body of the article is logically structured with helpful and appropriate headings and subheadings. I think that the article would be improved if you expanded the content of the some of the subheadings that currently appear quit short.

In-text links and "See Also" – This article includes many in-text links that are both useful and informative for readers. The Ponce de Leon link does not connect to an actual article, so you may want to correct this. As you add more content to the article, you should continue to be thorough with your links. This article currently does not have a “See Also section, so you might want to add one.

External links section – There is not currently an “External links” section, and I think the article would be improved if you added one. I would suggest finding websites that provide more historical context, or that link to information about productions of the play.

Images – The article contains an image that is relevant to the topic and follows Wikipedia guidelines. If you can find production stills or drawings, I think that might add to the quality of the article.


Information – Last semester, Ssilvers told me the following regarding character sections: “The Theatre Project's article structure guidelines suggest that characters should be described, to the extent that they are important, in the Plot (sometimes called Synopsis) section, and so a separate character list section may not be needed.” Since this is the Wikipedia standard, I would suggest folding the “Character” section into the “Plot section.” I’m not sure what other sections you were planning on adding to the article, but like I said previously, I would suggest creating a “Historical context” section based on the content of the “Lead.” You might also consider creating a section that examines the themes of the play.

Sources – This is the section of the article that needs the most work. The entire lead section provides valuable information, but doesn’t include any citations. There is only one source included in the article, so your references section needs to be expanded to include multiple, reputable and scholarly sources.

Nice job so far Kyu! I look forward to seeing your work on the article! Gdirado (talk)


Hello Kyu! Nice job on the article, you have giving it a head start from where it was. I would sugest the following:

The lead could use a bit more information on the author and on the when the play premiere.

The summary looks good, but it seems like a very fast plot break down, I would keep that because it gives a break down of what each scene is; but i would add a new section that is more cleary a plot summary and expand on what happens maybe by acts in general (intead of acts and scenes).

The character analisis is great! good job!

Maybe it needs a section on the themes of the play, and how the play represent the period in which it was written. Under what style does it fit?. You can probably do a section on that.

Also adding an area of performances of the play would be helpful.

Any other photos you good fine of a performance would be good, to give the reader a visual image of what this is.

Is looking good! Good job! --BorreroFortier (talk) 22:17, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

  • Note to reviewer: please do not use level 2 or level 3 subheadings, as they disrupt the {[WP:PR]] page. Level 4 is fine – I have adjusted. Brianboulton (talk) 23:17, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Monday 7 April 2014, 15:38 UTC)----

Slug (song)[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because it has failed three FA nominations for being too short and not comprehensive enough, despite the fact that shorter featured articles exist. Myself and other editors have done extensive research on sources for this topic and we all feel that the subject has been extensively covered and would like to see it pass an FA nomination.

Thanks, –Dream out loud (talk) 02:52, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Comment: As you're concerned with the length, I've listed some sources which could be used on the talk page of this PR. Not rich pickings, but there may be something of use there. They're all good, reputable publications, at least! J Milburn (talk) 11:59, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment and the review. I looked at the four sources you posted - three of them are already cited in the article and the fourth one just mentions the song but doesn't really say anything about it that I could include in the article. Just to clarify, I personally have no issues with the article's length and feel it is fully comprehensive. However, in each of the three FA noms, editors have shot it down solely based on that reason. A user at WP:MUSIC recommended that I request a PR to help it become FA. –Dream out loud (talk) 17:12, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Monday 7 April 2014, 02:52 UTC)----

George Greeley[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because I need the review to improve my proficiency in creating articles.

Thanks, Cathlec (talk) 17:17, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Sunday 6 April 2014, 17:17 UTC)----

George Robey[edit]

The English music hall comedian George Robey was perhaps best known for his "Prime Minister of Mirth" character and his humour which mixed everyday situations and observations with comic absurdity. Robey's naturally big, black eyebrows, together with his use of clown-like make-up, wooden cane, black robes and small, bowler hat, formed the appearance of the Prime Minister of Mirth which he used to entertain audiences on both the national and international stage. He was envied by his colleagues for his ability to ad-lib and was adored by his country for his tireless fundraising which earned good causes in excess of £2 million during both world wars. For this, he was made a CBE and was later knighted shortly before his death in 1954. He was, according to his biographer Peter Cotes, "the finest entertainer of the English music hall tradition".

Together with the FA promotions of Dan Leno, Marie Lloyd and Little Tich, it would only seem right that I now bring the fourth biggest name in English music hall (IMO) to the FAC stage. The article has already benefitted from a thorough copyedit from Ssilvers and a mini review by SchroCat. At 83,000 bytes, I am keen not to extend the article any further and I would be most grateful if reviewers could keep that in mind when asking for elaboration on some of the information. I also welcome ideas on how to reduce, without it effecting the article in terms of quality. I would be most interested to see what others think and I would be happy to receive any comments and/or criticisms from any willing reviewers. Thanks, Cassiantotalk 15:10, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Great job, Cassianto. Another question for reviewers is whether anyone has any ideas for images that could be used in the lower third of the article (of course it is harder to find free images published after 1923). -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:50, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you Ss. I think I have exhausted every possible avenue with having images in the lower half of the article, but have so far hit a huge copyright wall with every turn. If anyone does have any ideas for a way to get around this, then I would very much welcome them. I believe that the same copyright concerns would exist with sound files, but I would happily be proved wrong. Cassiantotalk 04:43, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Tim riley[edit]

Tons more to follow, but two preliminary thoughts before I get stuck in properly:

  • It would help the flow of your prose if you deleted "Robey" wherever it would be adequate to say "he", "him" or "his". For example: "In the early months of 1919, Robey completed a book of memoirs, My Rest Cure, which was published later that year. During the run of Joy Bells Robey was awarded the Legion of Honour for raising £14,000 for the French Red Cross. Robey declined a knighthood that same year because, according to Cotes, he was worried that the noble title would distance him from his working-class audiences, and instead he received the CBE from George V at Buckingham Palace. On the morning of the penultimate Joy Bells performance, Robey was invited to Stoll's London office where he was offered a role in a new revue at the Alhambra Theatre. On the journey, Robey met the theatre impresario Sir Alfred Butt, who agreed to pay the comedian £100 more, but out of loyalty to Stoll, he declined the offer and resumed his £600 a week contract at the Alhambra. On 28 July 1919, Robey took part in his second Royal Command Performance, at the London Coliseum. He and Loraine sang "If You Were the Only Girl (In the World)"." I reckon you should lose the second, third, fifth and sixth Robeys there. And so on.
    • I have blitzed the surname where I think it needs blitzing. I have an annoying tendency to do this. Please let me know if I have missed any. Cassiantotalk 18:09, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
      • I don't know any editor who doesn't fall into this trap. I do it all the time. It's just easier to spot when someone else does it. I'll keep my eye open for it when doing my close reading tomorrow or Tues. Tim riley (talk) 22:19, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "Mondo ladro" – would you mind if I, whose favourite opera is Falstaff (not a word to Ssilvers) redrew this sentence and even expanded it a bit? Falstaff has been chucked in the Thames just before this, and his gloomy mutterings about the wicked world were utterly up Robey's street.
    • Please do. I know nothing of Falstaff so I would be only to pleased for you to elaborate where I have failed. Cassiantotalk 18:09, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
      • Not a question of "failed", you maddening young person! It's just that I wanted to fine-tune it because it is so very close to my heart. Now done. Please check you're happy with my changes to the DID listing. Tim riley (talk) 22:19, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
        • Quite happy Tim, thank you! -- Cassiantotalk 22:46, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

That's all for now. More later. I'm really looking forward to a close reading of this one. Tim riley (talk) 17:16, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

First lot of comments, down to the end of Film debut and The Bing Boys Are Here

  • Lead
    • Leaving till last, more meo.
  • Early life
    • "he later claimed to have studied at the University of Cambridge" – I don't think this quite squares with your footnote, which says only that he played along with people's mistaken belief that he was at Cambridge.
      • Now consistent. Cotes mentions this on page 21. Cassiantotalk 17:58, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
  • London debut
    • "Where Did You Get That Hat" – I think this should have a question mark at the end of the title. (I googled it and the first hit is someone called Stanley Holloway singing it.) You say "by J C Heffron", but I think that though he performed the song and made it a hit, it was written and composed by someone else. The British Library thinks it was by one James Rolmaz: see here; Wikipedia thinks it was by Joseph J. Sullivan (vaudeville). Heaven knows what the facts are, but either way it doesn't appear to have been Heffron's work. I think it might be prudent just to call it "the popular new comic song" or some such.
      • Cotes reckoned it was Heffron. Yes, I think being vague is probably best. Cassiantotalk 17:58, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "Robey negotiated with his co-star to sing one of the comic songs " – two points here: first, as Robey was merely the stooge, is it accurate to describe him as a co-star? And secondly, the wording makes it ambiguous about which of them was to sing it.
    • "where, according to Cotes" – this is the first mention of Cotes in the text, so I think we need something on the lines of "according to his biographer Peter Cotes..."
      • Now introduced. I seem to remember introducing him elsewhere, so I expect this to also come up :) Cassiantotalk 17:58, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Music hall characterisations
    • "centred around" – some people (probably the same people who faint at the sight of a split infinitive) insist that "centred around" is a logical impossibility, and that the phrase must be "centred on". Best to indulge them, for a quiet life.
    • "Robey dressed in a top hat, frock coat and malacca cane" – one would have be very thin indeed to dress in a malacca cane
    • "The new garb set him apart" – this is the second "garb" in three paras. Once is all right, but it's not a word to scatter about, I feel. Perhaps "outfit" or similar this time?
    • "several, well-established" – I'm no expert on punctuation, but I don't think you want the comma here
  • Success in pantomime and the provinces
    • "image: Robey's make-up design" – this is a key image for the article, and I suggest you ask the image boffins to improve the contrast, which is pretty murky at the moment, not to mention the words dimly showing through from the other side of the page from which it was scanned. I've never approached them myself, but Crisco and Loeba have been hugely helpful to me in this regard, and you might like to consult one of them.
      • I may be able to do something, but I need some resolution to work with. Any higher resolution than 250px? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:04, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
        • Alas, no. It's a clipping at 100% size by the look of it, from a newspaper. All things considered it's surprisingly good. If it's too low res to be improved, so be it, and thank you, Crisco, for looking in so quickly. Tim riley (talk) 21:27, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
          • Crisco has very kindly had a go at improving them for me, but there has been little improvement. I will keep with the current one for the time being until that rare old beast – a beautifully photographed image which is desired AND PD comes along. Cassiantotalk 06:39, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "St Clement Danes church in the Strand" – probably best to add "London"
      • Removed the piped link. Cassiantotalk 17:58, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
    • Geography: Circus Road is really in St John's Wood rather than Swiss Cottage; on the other hand 83 Finchley Road is bang in the middle of Swiss Cottage, not Camden Town as your link has it.
      • Remedied. Circus Road was already linked to St John's Wood. Finchley Road is now Swiss Cottage. Cassiantotalk 19:26, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "at, amongst others, the Oxford Music Hall" – I always prefer "among" to "amongst", "amid" to "amidst" and "while" to "whilst"– shorter and less archaic
    • "for a fee of £120 per week" – "per" is fine with "annum", "cent" or other Latin word, but with the plain English "week" I'd go for "for a fee of £120 a week"
    • "only agreed on this" – I might rejig this as "agreed this only"
    • "Many's the squeeze she's had of my blue bag on washing day" – I bet you don't know what a blue bag was! They were still around when I was a little lad, and "can I have a squeeze of your blue bag?" was a catch-phrase of some comedian or other (clearly a Robey fan, I now realise).
      • I didn't know, no. It's surprising how many phrases come from the halls. Cassiantotalk 21:56, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Sporting interests
    • "Marylebone Cricket Club and remained an active player for them for many years" – this looks wrong to me: members of the MCC are the old buffers in the egg-and-tomato ties, whereas the players were the England cricket team. But I may be mistaken and I leave it to Sarastro or Brian B to comment authoritatively.
      • I'm ashamed to say that I know very little of cricket or the clubs who play it. Sarastro, I believe, will be along shortly. Have yet to ping Brian, but I will do shortly. Cassiantotalk 19:26, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
        • Members of the MCC were entitled to play for the club whenever they wanted; the MCC played many low-level games against local teams, as well as top-level matches where they were effectively the England team. So there's no problem here. Maybe say that he played in minor games to avoid any confusion. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:33, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
          • I have added the minor matches into this. Cheers. Cassiantotalk 06:56, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
            • However, this page is from an ultra-reliable cricket site. It gives some of his games for the MCC, but it contradicts the article somewhat. We say that he was introduced to cricket in 1903, but CrickerArchive has him playing in 1895, with his own team, no less. So his interest must pre-date 1903 to some extent. (I realise this is a very, very minor point in the context of Robey's career, but the cricket pedant in me felt the need to point it out!) Sarastro1 (talk) 21:33, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
              • We have a battle of the sources here. Cotes, as far as I can see, makes no mention of the 1890s being the decade in which Robey played cricket. I will check Wilson and report back, but if nothing, then I'm happy to use the source you provided above. Cassiantotalk 06:56, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
                • Now remedied using the source you provided. Contradiction has also vanished. I have also uploaded and added a Robey/MCC image. Cassiantotalk 19:23, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "complimentary of" – about?
    • "right-handed bowler" – I don't think our cricket experts will like that phrase much ("right-arm" bowler is usual) but as it's in a quotation it will have to stand
      • Apologies in advance. I have amended the ref to show the culprit. Cassiantotalk 19:26, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
        • Not that big a problem actually. It's a bit archaic, but there was nothing wrong with "right-hand" or "left-hand" bowler (e.g. "slow left-hand"), in the same way that we now say "right-hand bat".
    • "The match raised significant proceeds" – what did they signify? You mean substantial or considerable, I think.
      • Of course, now changed. Cassiantotalk 19:26, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Oswald Stoll
    • "to which his biographer Peter Cotes attributes" – too late to give Cotes his job description here, particularly if, as suggested, you give it in the London debut section earlier.
      • This was what I mentioned earlier. Fixed. Cassiantotalk 19:26, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
    • The chronology has gone off the rails in the first para. In 1912 George V was king (not prince). His father, Edward VII died in 1910. When the latter pops up later in the para it is rather confusing. I think you need to recast this para so that the private show for King Edward comes before the Command Performance for King George.
    • "Lord Lonsdale and Carlton House Terrace" – well, I'm blest! I worked in that very building (13–16 Carlton House Terrace) in the 1980s, 90s and 2000s. If I'd known Robey had performed there I might have enlivened some of the duller meetings with the odd burst of one of his songs.
      • Haha, that would have gone down very well! Looking at who occupied the offices in Carlton House Terrace and comparing them with Robey's songs, I'm sure "A Dear Kind Doctor" could have been sung at No.2 or I'm Dotty" at No. 5 :) Cassiantotalk 19:26, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "organizing performances" – but you use "–ising" endings elsewhere in the text
      • I blame my spell checker. Fixed. Cassiantotalk 19:42, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "Robey was fond of the Merchant Navy" – to the pure all things are pure, but I can't help seeing a Hello Sailor joke in that phrasing. Perhaps "Robey was a strong supporter of..."?
  • Film debut and The Bing Boys Are Here
    • "First three sentences need a citation between them
      • Sorry, I'm being thick. What do you mean? Repeat the ref which is given after the fourth sentence? Cassiantotalk 19:42, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
        • Apols: it's not you but me being thick. I hadn't clocked that the ref after the fourth sentence covered the three previous ones. Tim riley (talk) 17:02, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "Robey met with film makers" – this is good AmEng, but in BrEng one meets with abstract things like success or disaster, but just meets people.
    • "Theatrical historians blamed" – past tense wanted here?

More soon. I'm enjoying this every bit as much as I expected. Absorbing stuff, and highly enjoyable. Tim riley (talk) 15:31, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

I am most grateful thus far, thanks Tim! Cassiantotalk 19:42, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Round two, to the end of Shakespearian roles
  • Zig-Zag to Joy Bells
    • "The Prehistoric Man", with Daphne Pollard playing the role of "She of the Tireless Tongue" – he clearly stole this from Hengist and Senna Pod in Carry on Cleo.
      • ha, thats nothing; the other character was called "He with the Nobbly Knees".
    • "secured the box at the Savoy Theatre" – "a box", rather than "the box" in 1917. There was, I'm pretty sure, only one box after Rupert D'Oyly Carte rebuilt the theatre in the 20s, but the original Victorian theatre had lots of boxes.
    • "that the noble title" – blitz "noble". Knights ain't noblemen.
    • "and instead, received" – another comma I'd lose (but what do I know?)
      • Nothing apparently, like us all! Cassiantotalk 22:03, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "who agreed to pay the comedian" – agreed to pay him?
  • Films and revues of the early 1920s
    • "did not know how to correctly apply" – stronger without the adverb, I'd say
      • I only added this the other day. Now swapped back. Cassiantotalk 22:03, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "By 1920 variety theatre" – unexpected blue link here
    • "often hired the comedian" – "often hired him"?
    • "at London's Alhambra Theatre" – we've had the Alhambra mentioned several times already, so perhaps "London's" is not needed here
    • "before tossing the seeds" – when did you last eat a cherry? They have stones, not seeds.
    • "in aid of both" – I might lose the "both"
    • "at the Cromer Pier theatre where he was supported by the Beecham Opera Company" – Speaking as Sir Thomas Beecham's vicar on Wikipedia I have sprained my brain trying to imagine this. It seems highly implausible and I'd like to know exactly what your source says – every word of it, if you please, on this page or by email if you don't want to clog the review up.
      • I will mail you. Cassiantotalk 23:56, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
        • Press cutting received. I'd mention all or else none of the supporting acts. I think all would add a nice flavour. Tim riley (talk) 10:48, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
          • Deleted altogether. Cassiantotalk 19:28, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
            • Was this just a one-night concert? If so, I agree with the deletion. Just checking. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:11, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
              • Yes it was just for a night. This was a very minor, one off show for the summer season with little in critical commentary, hence my deletion of the whole sentence. Cassiantotalk 22:00, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
    • Cardus quote box – excellent!
  • Marriage breakdown and foreign tours
    • "That year, Robey separated from his wife Ethel owing to the amount of time he was spending away from home working" – this doesn't read well, to my mind. May I suggest something like "The amount of time he spent working away from home led to the breakdown of his marriage, and he separated from Ethel in 1923." I'd then remove "As a result" from the next sentence.
      • You may, I have and I have. Cassiantotalk 23:56, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "and was written intentionally" – I'd drop "intentionally"
    • "a company of 25 artists, many engineers and support staff" – not clear if the 25 include the engineers and support staff or if they're on top of the 25
      • Added "as well as" to separate the figure. Cassiantotalk 23:56, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "Capetown" – Two words, I think
    • "Don Quixote" – if the man playing Quixote was anyone we have heard of I think you should mention his name
  • Venture into legitimate theatre
    • Why, may I ask, have you not linked to the short but serviceable article on W H Berry by the admirable Tim riley with contributions from the incomparable Ssilvers and someone describing himself as Cassianto?
      • Good grief! I shall link right away. How could I do such a great disservice to one of Wikipedia's greatest and most respected editors! It's also not fair on Ssilvers or Tim either! Cassiantotalk 21:56, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
        • I laughed aloud at that! I think you win this exchange. Tim riley (talk) 10:48, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
          • Points to Cassianto! -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:14, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "Critic Harold Conway" – you know my loathing for this journalese/US construction. Let's have a definite article, if you please.
      • Changed, goodness knows how that slipped in. Cassiantotalk 23:56, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "Robey's refusal to join the actors' union Equity" – was he a member of the variety artists' union (the VAF, I think it was called), or was he a refusenik for all unions?
      • No mention of any unions I'm afraid. Cassiantotalk 23:56, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "when the comedian was included" – when he was included?
    • "A substantial donation was made by Robey to the union" – perhaps go for the active rather than the passive: "Robey made a substantial donation to the union"
    • Done. Cassiantotalk 23:56, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Shakespearian roles
    • I was going to ask for mention of other cast members, but I see from the Times archive that in Henry IV pt 1 the only big name apart from Robey was Lady Tree as Mistress Quickly. (John Laurie later of Dad's Army had a small role, but that's not notable here.) You might, perhaps, quote a sentence or two of Robey's reviews for his Falstaff. I'm sure you've got access to The Times; I can rummage in The Manchester Guardian and Observer if wanted.
      • If you could, that would be wonderful! John Laurie was a very underestimated actor and it is surprising to see how many distinguished plays he appeared in! Cassiantotalk 23:56, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
        • Will rummage and send you any relevant cuttings by email. Tim riley (talk) 10:48, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "The comedian Richard Hearne" – Mr Pastry was one of the greatest comic treats of my childhood (see him dancing the Lancers with a whole ballroom of imaginary people) but I can't honestly think he is so famous that mention of him is warranted here. I doubt that any reader not in possession of a Freedom Pass will have heard of him. Tim riley (talk) 21:10, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

That's all for now, except to report a vague feeling that from the text as it stands a reader new to the subject might not quite get the distinction between music hall and variety. (Indeed, I'm not quite certain I know it myself.) Pray ponder. Having carped at you for line after line, let me say what a treat I'm having reviewing this! A delight. More soonest. Tim riley (talk) 21:10, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

  • I agree. Can you give a sense of Robey's variety career? Was it all provincial tours? How much time did he spend doing variety shows, or can you give some other description of his variety career, and how it was different from his (earlier?) music hall career. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:18, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
    • I will have to have a more thorough look at this. Not all of his variety shows were limited to the provinces, he appeared in London and internationally with them as well. They differed from his MH routines inasmuch that they relied on some sort of organisation and scripting, where as his MH were frequently impromptu and their sketches or monologues were often picked at the last minute. Cassiantotalk 21:56, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
Last lot from Tim
  • Radio and television debut
    • "over his fifty-year membership" – of Middlesex or Surrey, and was he really a member at age 16 (if my arithmetic is correct)?
      • This is what Wilson says. "In another talk he congenially discoursed on cricket, told about the players he had met in his youth when he regularly visited the Oval, and of the famous characters he knew at Lord's during his fifty years' membership." (Wilson, p. 159)
        • Fair enough, I think. From the quote it's clear he was a member at Lords – of the Middlesex County club, presumably. The Marylebone Cricket Club (MCC), also based at Lord's, was the elite and exclusive mafia that ran cricket in those days, but he wouldn't have got a sniff of membership of the MCC as a teenager. You might ask one of our two cricket sages to run an eye over this, as I don't really know what I'm talking about. Tim riley (talk) 11:13, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
          • I believe Sarastro is popping along in the next few days.
            • That sounds wrong. Unless his dad was a member of the MCC, he would not have got in that quickly as there is/was an infamous waiting list for membership, and it was very, very exclusive. Especially in that period. It is ambiguous about which club he is talking: the Oval was less exclusive (and incidentally, the Oval and Lord's "crowd" hated each other with a passion) so maybe he was a member there. But it sounds like an exaggeration. Fifty-year association would be more plausible. (And I'm not sure whether Middlesex had any members as such, or if it was just the MCC at Lord's. It's not really important for the article, but I could probably check easily enough if it matters.) Sarastro1 (talk) 21:40, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
              • It now appears that Cotes also acknowledges Robey's membership of the MCC (he was elected in 1905 apparently). Cardus gives an anecdote and remembers Robey on the field at Lord's in 1921. Cotes quotes: "His strongest tie with cricket was his membership of the MCC; elected in 1905, he remained a member to the end of his life." Cassiantotalk 18:56, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
                • Not sure this helps, but this cigarette card from 1906 shows he played for them. The card shows the reverse, which states he is actually a member. - SchroCat (talk) 19:32, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
    • The Sydney Morning Herald – you have misquoted the paper, which doesn't mention "fun". It's not a very illuminating quote in any case, it seems to me.
      • Agree. I have deleted it. Cassiantotalk 00:44, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "with his divorce from Ethel finalised" – fifteen years after he walked out on her. Do we know why it took so long to complete the divorce?
      • He never spoke of the reasons as to why he split from Ethel, nor why he omitted to get a divorce. Blanche was even kept in the dark about it. Sure, Cotes offers his conspiracies, but none are tangible enough to include in my opinion. Divorce, I believe, was a sin back then and it was better to be Mrs George Robey than Mrs Nobody I suppose. Cassiantotalk 00:44, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "Critic Harold Conway" – another missing "the"
  • Legacy
    • "of the Sir Henry Irving statue" – there are more than one, but this assuredly refers to the one outside the National Portrait Gallery. Worth mentioning, if so?
      • Yes, that one. Now given. Cassiantotalk 00:44, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
    • A passing observation: Gielgud was a huge fan of Robey: "who paused as he surveyed the audience and had them roaring with laughter before he uttered a word". JG drew on Robey's technique when confronted with a tricky comic role in André Obey's play Noah.
      • Interesting. Is this worth giving here? Cassiantotalk 00:44, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
        • Refs to hand if you want to include it, but I'd say not. A bit peripheral to your subject. Tim riley (talk) 10:48, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Lead
    • "which formed a basis for his humour" – not sure these seven words add much.
    • "Aside from his music hall acts" – I think of "Aside from" as an Americanism; to my mind "Apart from" is the English idiom.
      • Opted for "As well as..."
        • I don't think "as well as" worked, so I changed it to Tim's phrase, which I think is clear, even to those in the New World. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:28, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "a series of menial jobs" – I don't know that I'd decribe working in a civil engineer's office as "menial". Perhaps "routine" or "humdrum"? Afterthought: for many years the Yellow Pages had the splendid entry "Boring–see Civil engineers". Now removed, alas.
      • I went for "routine". Cassiantotalk 00:44, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
        • I think "routine" is too vague. I changed it to "office jobs". But was it really "a series" of them? How about "some" or "a few"? -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:34, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
    • "the on-stage assistant to an established comedian" – I wondered why not just "straight man"?
    • "for the 1944 film of the same subject" – not quite. The film was of Henry V. Better to say "a role he later repeated in Laurence Olivier's 1944 film of Henry V."
    • "During the Second World War … for which he received the CBE" – but you tell us later that he got his CBE twenty years before the Second World War.

That's all I have to offer. This is a fine article, and how nice to read a biography of a music hall star who had a long and, it seems, generally happy life! – Tim riley (talk) 10:01, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

I thoroughly enjoyed that review Tim, thank you very much! Cassiantotalk 00:44, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from SchroCat[edit]

I went over chunk of this when it was still being written, but much has changed since then. I've made a few minor tweaks here and there (where it's easier to do, rather than say): feel free to revert or tweak any of them (apart from the change from an errant US spelling that had wondered in).

Early life

  • "His father Charles Wade[6] was a civil engineer who spent much of his career on tramline design and construction": Commas seem to be in the spotlight elsewhere at the moment, but I think Charles's name could be dropped into a sub clause by the judicious placement of two of the little beggars here. (I wait with baited breath for TR to tell me it's unnecessary...)
    • Adopted unless I hear different. Cassiantotalk 21:35, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
      • Bloody hell! The bogeyman looking in here. Yes, commas are wanted, unless he had two or more fathers. More realistically, if we were talking of siblings, you'd write "his sister Susan" if he had several sisters and "his sister, Susan," if she was the only one. The difference between a describing ("non-restrictive") clause and a defining ("restrictive") one. But as the bogeyman needs to eat someone, who is it who has baited rather than bated breath? Oh, all right, I'm sorry! Tim riley (talk) 23:13, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Ditto Ma Robey (I see you've followed the comma-name-comma pattern on the third family member, Uncle George)
  • "the family moved back to London near the border between Camberwell and Peckham": slightly pedantic, but I'm not sure Camberwell and Peckham were actually part of London at the time... It may be best leaving as is, but someone may pick up on it at some point
    • How about deleting London and leaving "border between Camberwell and Peckham"? Strictly speaking, Cotes doesn't say London, only Camberwell and Peckham? Cassiantotalk 21:35, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
      • I'd leave in London, or "the London area", as all your readers will understand the general location without clicking away from the article. Unless it is jarring, I'd stick with just London. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:08, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "part of their ordinary daily lives": I'd be tempted to leave out "ordinary": some may have had quite extra-ordinary lives, and "part of their daily lives" seems to cover the point well enough.
  • "He later claimed to have studied at the University of Cambridge,[9][n 3]" Is there more to follow here, or should the comma be a full stop?

London debut

  • "returned to South London": I'm always getting the capitalisation mixed up with this, but is it "South London", or "south London"?
    • I think South London. Can anyone shed some light on this? Cassiantotalk 21:35, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
      • Not cocksure about this, but I think South London is widely enough taken to be a geographical name rather than a geographical description that caps are appropriate. Perfectly prepared to be told I'm talking round objects. Tim riley (talk) 23:35, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
        • As the holder of an English degree from a prestigious university, I can confidently say that I don't care. Also, it ain't broke - see South London. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:08, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Done down to the end of London debut: more to follow in this fascinating and excellent article. – SchroCat (talk) 19:03, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Success in pantomime and the provinces

  • "his position at the top of every theatrical bill": what, every bill? Even the ones he wasn't in? I'm being slightly facetious, but do you see wheat I mean?
  • "However, Robey disputed": the "however" will be a red flag to some at FLC, especially at the beginning of the sentence.

Sporting interests

  • The para beginning "By 1903" confuses me slightly. We start with Vigoro/cricket then into Millwall, then into the MCC and cricket. Perhaps starting with Millwall, then into Vigoro, moving into cricket and the MCC?


  • "Prince George V"? Either George, Prince of Wales or King George V, depending on the year.

Done to the end of Stoll: sorry it's a bit piecemeal, but a stack of new cases in over the last day or so has squashed my free time somewhat. More to come asap. - SchroCat (talk) 20:25, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Another batch for you: sorry about the delay in getting back to this, an outbreak of rather depressing silliness delayed me somewhat. Anyhow, on with the show...

Lovely, thanks. Not a problem at all. Cassiantotalk 17:48, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Marriage breakdown and foreign tours

  • "In early 1929, Robey returned to South Africa and then Canada for another tour with Bits and Pieces. He then started another series of English variety dates." These two short sentences could move together quite happily (and lose the "then…then" repetition. Perhaps "In early 1929 Robey returned to South Africa and then Canada for another tour with Bits and Pieces, after which he started another series of English variety dates."?

Second World War

  • "he appeared in various types of shows": should that be "various types of show" (singular)?
    • Done Cassiantotalk 17:48, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
      • Hold on thar. If this is correct Brit. grammar, I am appalled and suggest a rewrite of the sentence. I've put it back to "types of shows" for now. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:08, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "He was unspecific in his choice of venues": I'm not sure "specific" is the right word, but my brain isn't working well enough to think of a substitute.
    • I agree. I have reworked the whole sentence. Cassiantotalk 17:48, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • It's a bit thin around the late 1940s: is there a similar gap in the source material over these dates?
Unfortunately, both sources are scarce on information from 1947 (ish) to the early 50s. This, I'm sad to say, is a ramification of that. Cassiantotalk 17:48, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Decline in health

  • "Poplar in east London" Poor east London: only granted lower case status when South London gets all la-di-da with its capitalisation!
    • East of the river is just as good (if not better) ;). changed. Cassiantotalk 17:48, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "he starred as Clown in a short pantomime": is Clown the character's name? Fine if it is, but the definite article needed if only a descriptor
    • The character was called Clown. Cassiantotalk 17:48, 14 April 2014 (UTC)


  • "charming, gracious [and] one of the few really great ones of [the music hall era]."[198] Perhaps a slight tweak to shorten the quote and remove the second set of brackets: "charming, gracious [and] one of the few really great ones" of the music hall era.[198] Your call either way.


  • You may want to check the formatting here and there, as some of the italicisation has gone a little awry: compare 150 and 152 157 and 159, for example.
    • I need to go through both these and the references. Be assured this will be fixed! Thanks so much for looking in. Cassiantotalk 17:48, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Very minor quibbles in all, and feel free to adopt or ignore at your discretion! An excellent article and I await its appearance at FAC. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 15:30, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Sarastro[edit]

Sorry for the delay, this week was slightly more chaotic than I expected.

No problem at all, thanks for popping by! Cassiantotalk 16:58, 13 April 2014 (UTC)


  • "and musical theatre actor": Far from a major issue, but I wonder if "an actor in musical theatre" may be less abrupt?
  • "he made his debut on the London stage when he was 21 at the Royal Aquarium, where he was the on-stage assistant to an established comedian": Again, not major, but would "he made his debut on the London stage, aged 21, at the Royal Aquarium as the on-stage assistant to an established comedian". But may not be an improvement.
    • Much the same really, I'll stick if that's ok? Cassiantotalk 16:17, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "a mainstay of the popular Christmas pantomime scene": Is this popular in the sense that everyone liked it, or popular in the sense that it was looked down upon by superior types?
    • The former. Pantomime was huge in the Victorian times. Cassiantotalk 16:17, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "and secured many private bookings for royalty": Reads as if he made the bookings for the royalty to star in! Maybe "appearing before royalty"?
  • "In 1914 he debuted in film when he appeared in the comedy short George Robey Turns Anarchist, but he had only modest success in the medium": Maybe a "he" or two too many here?
  • "his first legitimate theatre role": Slightly condescending editorial voice here!!! Can we rephrase to avoid "legitimate" (does this make pantomime illegitimate? I'd agree wholeheartedly there!)
    • legitimate →straight. Cassiantotalk 16:17, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
      • Both "legitimate" and "straight" are ambiguous, as both are often used to mean "not a musical theatre show". But this was a musical (an operetta, in fact). To be clear, how about saying: "first theatre role other than in a revue or pantomime". -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:18, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Is the lead lacking a little summary of why he was so important? There looks to be a few things in the legacy section which could go here.
    • Its where to put it! He had such a full life, that it was a complete mission to get all the pertinent information covered in the four paragraphs. I can have a go in a sandbox somewhere. Cassiantotalk 16:17, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
      • I just made some edits in the first paragraph along these lines. See if you like them. -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:18, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Early life:

  • "and its tree lined pavements were flanked by large, well-kept houses." This seems a little over-described here.
    • Removed, given the articles already excessive length. Cassiantotalk 17:05, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • " Robey's parents both died during the First World War; his father of a heart attack and his mother as a result of an injury she had sustained during an air raid": Were the two deaths connected?
  • Is there a way to cut a few of the "Robey"s in the first paragraph?
  • "In the later months of 1880, the Wade family moved to Germany": Why?
    • Wade moved for work reasons. Now explained. Cassiantotalk 16:57, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "He enjoyed life in Germany and was impressed with the many operatic productions held in the city and the way the locals treated the arts as an integral part of their daily lives": A few too many ands in this sentence.
    • Deleted the last part of this sentence as it was a bit redundant. Cassiantotalk 13:05, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "When he was 14, Robey moved in with a clergyman's family in the German countryside": Why?
    • Explained in the next sentence. Cassiantotalk 13:05, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
  • The note on his supposed attendance at Cambridge is a little confusing. Where did the claim come from? The text suggests that it was Robeys's claim, but the note suggests that he played on the "supposition" that he did so. It can't really be both. And did he really convince anyone?
    • According to Cotes, Robey himself claimed to have studied there. This set the ball rolling and the likes of Max Beerbohm carried on the rumour, long after Robey had abandoned it. Rather than correct them, he let them keep the rumour alive as I suppose it's better to have "studied" at Cambridge than any lesser university! I have tweaked it a little. Cassiantotalk 17:11, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Up to the end of "Music hall characterisations" so far. A good read! Sarastro1 (talk) 21:22, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Success in pantomime and the provinces

  • " had signed the comedian on a £25-a-week, three-month contract": Without using any of those godawful inflation templates, or measuring worth, or anything like that, could we give a vague indication about how much this was? Perhaps how it compared to other stars at the time?
    • Now added. Cecilia Loftus was paid £80 a week that year, so it appears he was well on his way to commanding the same figures. Cassiantotalk 18:42, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
      • Unless one of the sources mentions Loftus's salary (or compares his with anyone), this is open to the accusation of WP:OR at FAC. But, I have no objection if you want to wait until someone objects (if ever). -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:18, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Sporting interests

  • "Robey was asked by the English cricketer Harry Wrathall to take part in a charity match at the Yorkshire County Cricket Club. Robey played so well that Wrathall asked him to return the following weekend": As written, it looks at first glance like he was playing cricket; I think we need to specify that he was playing football.
  • "By 1903, Robey was a semi-professional player and was signed as an inside forward by the Millwall Football Club and scored many goals for the club at national level.": And...and...and. Also, I'm not too sure about "at national level" here. Could we be more precise at what level he was playing? First division? Second division? Friendly games?
  • I think you saw my comments on the cricket in the sections above.
    • I did. Responses given above. Cassiantotalk 06:21, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Now down to the end of "Oswald Stoll". Sarastro1 (talk) 18:45, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Film debut and The Bing Boys Are Here:

  • "The show's casting was controversial with critics": To disregard your request to not ask for elaboration (!), why was this?
    • "Controversial" was the wrong word, so I have used "doubt" instead. I have also added a ref which I had originally missed. Cassiantotalk 20:11, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
      • Whoa! It can't be what you wrote, Mr. C. I understood this to mean that the critics expected ROBEY to play the dame and were surprised. Assuming that's what you meant, I have changed it to: "Although the critics were surprised by the casting, it appealed to audiences..." If that's not what you meant, let's try again. -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:18, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
        • That was what I meant. I thought "controversial" was wrong to use here as it wasn't; more of a disappointment or a "hmmm, I'm not sure about this casting". Cassiantotalk 22:39, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "Another film followed in 1916 called The Anti-frivolity League,[75] followed the next year by another film, Doing His Bit.":

Zig-Zag to Joy Bells:

  • "The Italian writer Emilio Cecchi gave Robey a glowing review...": If you are interested in trimming, I'm not sure that this quote adds much to the sum of our knowledge.
    • Deleted. Cassiantotalk 20:03, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
      • Sorry to disagree, but without this review, the reader has no idea of the reception of this major role in Robey's career. Possibly the quote could be removed or streamlined, but IMO the fact the Cecchi gave it a glowing review should stay. -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:18, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
        • As per my edit summary, I have restored this. I agree that this helps and deliberated over deleting it for some time. Cassiantotalk 09:07, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Sorry this is coming quite slowly, but I'm up to the end of the Zig-zag section now. On the subject of length, I'm always writing articles which are too long. There may be a few parts here and there which could safely be trimmed if you are wanting to reduce the length; personally, I think you are just about OK at the moment. I tend to take the optimal length to be around 8,000 words and try to trim to that sort of length. Sarastro1 (talk) 19:15, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Not a problem at all. I'm finding the breaks a big help in keeping in top of things, cheers! Cassiantotalk 20:03, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Films and revues of the early 1920s:

  • "George Robey's Day Off (1919) showed the comedian acting out his daily domestic routines to comic effect,[90] but the picture failed at the box office. The British film maker John Baxter concluded that film producers did not know how best to apply Robey's stage talents to film.": Too many "films"! I would also suggest rewording as "George Robey's Day Off (1919) showed the comedian acting out his daily domestic routines to comic effect,[90] but failed at the box office". And (maybe Mr Riley can help here) is it box-office?
  • "Robey admitted that he had difficulty in differentiating between the business of film and variety theatre, with the former providing little room for his customary improvisational humour.": If trimming is required, this could go as it makes essentially the same point that Baxter did in the previous sentence.
  • "A sign that his popularity was continuing to increase came in August 1920 when he was depicted in scouting costume for a series of 12 Royal Mail stamps in aid of the Printers Pension Corporation War Orphans and the Prince of Wales Boy Scout Funds.": Maybe just "A sign of his increasing popularity ..."?

Marriage breakdown:

  • "Robey, however, resented having to grow a beard for the role and despised the foreign climate": We state the location as being in France in the note, but not in the main body. That makes the work of the reader a little harder.

Venture into legitimate theatre:

  • "although he had frequently read Shakespeare from an early age.": Redundancy?
  • ""integrate himself with the other stars, ... to learn many pages of dialogue, and to remember countless cues."": Why the comma when we are using an ellipsis?

Down to the end of the legitimate theatre section now. Part of me wonders if some of the lists of roles and locations could be trimmed a little? Not a huge problem at all, but I sometimes find these a little wearing in the biographies of performers. But it's not really detracting so far, as we are kept entertained by various tales and anecdotes, but it is worth considering if you are still worried over length. Sarastro1 (talk) 19:31, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

  • This is a good point. In general, I would mention a role if it was from an important production for Robey, but I would not mention the name of a theatre, especially a provincial theatre, unless it was a really significant venue or particularly significant to Robey's career (I would just mention the city). So, along these lines, do we need: "Paragon Theatre of Varieties", Brighton's "Alhambra Theatre", Manchester's "Comedy Theatre", Birmingham's "Palace Theatre", Vancouver's "Empress Theatre", Woolwich's "Royal Artillery Theatre", Bristol's "Hippodrome Theatre", Burnley's "Palace Theatre", Sheffield's "Empire Theatre"? -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:18, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
    • OK, I think I caught them all. Cassiantotalk 21:58, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Shakespearean roles:

  • "At the start of 1935 Robey accepted his first Shakespearian role, as Falstaff in Henry IV, Part I, which caused much surprise in the press and some worry by his variety fans that he might retire the Prime Minister of Mirth.": Why not just "surprise"? And should it be "worry from his fans"?

Radio and television debut:

  • "The popular interview brought Robey over a thousand letters from listeners": "Popular interview" could be interpreted in a few ways, so maybe "the well-received interview"? And the interview didn't bring him anything, so what about "as a result of the interview..."?
    • Dropped "popular" and I have omitted to use "well-received" as I couldn't think of an alternative to use instead of "...receive letters". Cassiantotalk 22:39, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "The press were warmly impressed": Not keen on the adverb here.
  • In the quote following on from "The press were warmly impressed...", there is a full stop followed by an ellipsis.
    • Caught and deleted. Cassiantotalk 22:39, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
      • I believe that the full stop - space - ellipses is correct, to indicate that the omitted material includes the end of a sentence. I see that it does not specifically so state in WP:ELLIPSES, but I am sure that the punctuation mavens do it this way at FAC. Does anyone know differently? -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:34, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
  • "In the later months of 1936, Robey repeated his radio success with a thirty-minute programme entitled "Music-Hall", which he recorded especially for American audiences, to honour the tenth birthday celebrations of the National Broadcasting Corporation.": Redundancy?
  • "he had met on his frequent visits to the Oval and Lord's cricket grounds over his fifty-year membership.": And to return to this, and taking on board your comment above, he wasn't a member of the MCC fifty years before this interview, as he became a member in 1905. So I would still prefer "association" here. Not a big deal, but as written this is slightly inaccurate.

Second World War:

  • "Aware of demand in Australia": Not quite clear what the demand is for here.
    • For his act, clarified but may need checking. I have said "Owing to popular demand for his act..."
      • I think that "aware of demand" is much better than "owing to popular demand", and we certainly need to say where. I think that the only change needed to satisfy Sarastro is to add the "for his act". I've made the change. -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:34, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Decline in health:

  • "Instead, he would stay at home and draw comic sketches featuring the Prime Minister of Mirth": Why "would"?
  • "a request the comedian was only too happy to fulfil.": I can see why this wording is used, but would "was happy to fulfil" work just as well?
    • Works fine I think. Done. Cassiantotalk 22:39, 17 April 2014 (UTC)


  • Does this section really describe his legacy, or more about his comic style? Perhaps this isn't the best title for the section. Additionally, is there anything general that could be said here about his personality? (It comes across throughout, but I was wondering if there were any pithy quotes)
    • How about "Tributes and legacy"? -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:34, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

And that's it from me. A great piece of work, very readable, and feel free to ignore any of my comments if you don't agree. Let me know when this reaches FAC. Sarastro1 (talk)

Comments from Crisco[edit]

After doing those images, I'll try and give some prose comments. Have you had a check of the copyright on these images yet? (BTW, if you could have a look at my considerably shorter article (PR) that would be much appreciated)

Thankyou. I have done the best I can on the images and with the exception of perhaps one or two, I think they are ok. I will happily drop in on Djajakusuma in the next day or two. Cassiantotalk 08:06, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Royal Command Performance in 1912 and regularly entertained before royalty. - any way to avoid repeating royal[ty]?
  • Prime Minister of Mirth - should these all be in quotes, or not?
  • I've linked Henry V (1944 film) in the lede.
  • Kennington Road was an affluent area and was mainly inhabited by successful tradesmen - do you need the second "was"?
  • I don't see Robey's year of birth anywhere outside the lede.
    • I'm not sure it needs to be. Cassiantotalk 08:06, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
  • a school in the city of Dresden - is "the city of" necessary?
    • I think for those not geographically minded among us, it serves a purpose here. Otherwise we run the risk of forcing people off the page. Cassiantotalk 08:06, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
      • Dresden is a fairly large city, and famous in the Anglsophere for the bombing of Dresden. Even not knowing that, most readers would understand that it's a place without a clarifier. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:16, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Is "enrol on" correct in the Queen's English?
  • He later claimed to have studied at the University of Cambridge. - wouldn't "though this has been disputed" help make it clear (to those who don't read footnotes, like several reviewers I've met...) that this "claim" is not necessarily correct?
    • I think the footnote is a suitable place to have it. If I introduce it into the text, then things will become a bit bloated.
      • I'm not saying to have the whole footnote as part of the running text. I'm suggesting that "though this has been disputed" would make the idle reader (i.e. one who does not click on footnotes) realize that the Cambridge claim may not be correct. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:16, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Should you refer to Robey as Wade until he makes the name change?
    • No as things will become too confusing. IMO, the subject matter should be referred to by the name for which they were best known. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? Cassiantotalk 08:06, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Cecilia Loftus, a well-established music hall performer, was paid £80-a-week for an engagement that year. - is this really worth having in the running text?
    • Sarastro mentioned this above and thought it would be helpful to compare Robey's wage to other performers of his day. I must say, I'm inclined to agree with him on this. Cassiantotalk 08:06, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
      • I'm not questioning the inclusion of this. I'm questioning its inclusion in the running text (i.e. not as a footnote). It's not quite pertinent to your narrative. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:12, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Ethel Haydon - notable enough for an article?
    • She was a very minor actress. I'll see how much I have in the sources. Cassiantotalk 08:06, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
      • Your footnote has "a star in her own right", which doesn't sound like "minor" to me. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:12, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Watch for too many paragraphs that start with "in (year)" or similar.
    • Swapped a few, thanks. Cassiantotalk 08:06, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
  • That weekend, while waiting in the pavilion before the game, Robey was approached by an agent for Hull City Football Club, who asked the comedian to sign an amateur form for a match that same afternoon. Robey agreed, swapped his flannels for a football kit and played with the team against Nottingham Forest as an inside right. - Did he end up playing cricket that day?
  • King Edward VII - If it's Sir George Robey and Sir Alfred Butt, why not King Edward VII?
  • King George V and his wife Mary were the royal attendees who - is "were the royal attendees who" really necessary?
    • I think so as it may become ambiguous inasmuch that they were delighted knowing of Robey's performance, when in actual fact they were there. Anyone else? Cassiantotalk 08:06, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
  • 1am and following ... is this correct in BrE? Not even a space?
    • Changed. Fixed 0600 too. Cassiantotalk 17:25, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Film makers or filmmakers?
  • Hippodrome theatre or Hippodrome Theatre?
    • Likewise. The pr fairies must have visited overnight! Cassiantotalk 17:21, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Pollard was again cast, with Phyllis Bedells and the supporting dancers included Anita Elson and Leon Errol. - not quite clear to me. What was Bedells' role in all this?
  • Emilio Cecchi - translation also by Cotes? Original text supplied?

Skipping ahead...

  • In his lifetime, Robey helped to earn more than £2,000,000 for good causes with £500,000 of that figure being raised during the First World War alone. - Goes from the funeral service to this... kinda jumpy. Also, is "good causes" NPOV? Charitable causes, maybe?
  • the honour "the music hall version" of the Sir Henry Irving statue, - not getting this reference
  • More on the morrow. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:15, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
  • According to our article on Prince Littler, Emile was his brother. Why link to Prince?
  • first failure for the comedian under Stoll's management after their string of hits. - either the first few words or the last few are redundant; if something is a first failure, then what preceded it was successful.
  • one of the first productions to feature a film sequence that showed Phileas racing an Atlantic liner in a motor boat. - meaning such a scene was shot again and again?
  • Consider grouping references at the end of clauses and/or sentences
  • embraced it fully. - is this encyclopedic?
  • 15,000 miles - shouldn't we have convert templates here?
  • Don Quixote (1932) - link Adventures of Don Quixote? Also, why just Don Quixote?
  • at the Savoy Theatre in his next legitimate theatre role as Bold Ben Blister in the operetta Jolly Roger, - I'd remove "in his next legitimate theatre role "
  • legitimate theatre critics - why not just "critics"?
  • [ballet, opera and musical comedy] - what was the original?
  • Shakespearian roles doesn't feel like the correct title. It's almost all about Falstaff. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:00, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
  • he got his biggest kick - encyclopedic language?
  • A report in the Kinematograph Weekly comment that the sixty-nine year old comedian - two things. A report ... comment ? and sixty-nine year old is missing hyphens (to be safe I'd go 69-year-old)
  • That September Robey appeared as the Prime Minister of Mirth in Portsmouth for a one-man show. - is this one worth mentioning, at all? I mean, it's a single performance, with no critical commentary. Or do you have another purpose for including it?
  • sympathising - Is this really the best Easter egg? It's odd how we don't have an article on Nazi sympathizer, since they're not quite the same.
  • cine-variety - worth a redlink?
  • Henry V - Worth quoting any British critics? I mean, it was a UK production, right?
  • In the early months of 1954, and confined to a wheelchair, - the conjunction doesn't work very well here, I think. It could be moved to the next sentence easily — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:12, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Sunday 6 April 2014, 15:10 UTC)----

An Enemy of the People[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because as part of my Theater History course we have been asing to pick an article and make a contribution to it. At this moment I have added an audio reading, a photograph and expanded the plot summary. Im working on revising the Lead and update the summary so is not as broad as it is now. Any suggestions on the article and what you would find helpful to see in it if you would be searching for information on this play, will be appriciated.

Thanks, BorreroFortier (talk) 20:17, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Peer review[edit]

Lead section: The lead section is telling us a bit about this play. I think you can add up more in formation and you can move the information of film to adaptations section.

Plot overview: I think this is good. It has a lot of information so that readers can get the the idea about the story of this play.

Characters: That is good to know who are in this play, but i would be great if you can add more details of each characters such as their personalities...

Themes: This is helpful to understand this play.

Adaptations: This is good!

Audio: That's goot to putting here. Listening is really helpful to understand characters.

I think you are doing great job! my friend! Nossoju (talk) 19:04, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Review by llywrch[edit]

This is an important play by Ibsen, so thanks for attempting this. However, I encountered a major problem right off the bat: the "Plot overview" sections are large, difficult-to-read slabs of text. To be blunt, the phrase TL;DR -- "too long; did not read" comes to mind. Either shorten the summaries of each act, or use some paragraphing to make them more readable. Once you fix that problem, I'll take another look at this play, & see if I can suggest some ideas for secondary sources. -- llywrch (talk) 08:08, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Saturday 5 April 2014, 20:17 UTC)----

Adrienne Lecouvreur[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because… I have added some sections and edited information on this article, and would like to invite anyone who is familiar with Mademoiselle Lecouvreur to collaborate or make suggestions for improvement.

Thanks, CataVillamarin111 (talk) 00:42, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Peer review[edit]

LEAD: I think this is a great summary, and introduced me to her in a nice, general way. You have a little type -- I think you mean "scholars have." I really like that you've talked about her whole life here, not just her acting career. That really helps to paint a fuller picture of her personal history. When you say "her story," do you mean her life story?

STRUCTURE: I think you have a great structure. I like that you took the time to talk about her legacy. I might suggest renaming Early Years to "History" and then having subheaders like Early Years, Later Years, etc (or whatever is appropriate). That may help the reader follow along a bit better.

INTERNAL LINKS: You did a great job linking to other Wiki articles throughout the text, when applicable/appropriate. I couldn't think of any See Also pages to add, so for now I think you're probably fine without a See Also section.

EXTERNAL LINKS: Likewise, I drew a blank for any External Links I would have liked to have. Unless you come across something directly relevant, you're probably ok not to have this section either. The article is not lacking, for not having one.

IMAGES: These are wonderful! There are some beautiful images you were able to use. Great job.

HISTORY/HISTORICAL DEVELOPMENT: I love the information about her early years! Here are a few questions I had when reading: At what age did she move to Paris with her family? I was a little unclear on the second theater troupe in the sentence beginning "Young Adrienne found" ...what troupe are you referring to? I'd also love to know how old she was when she played the role of Pauline -- you may want to make it more clear that this is her stage debut, yes? Finally, I would want to make it clear that Philippe Le Roy is Elisabeth's father, not Adrienne's. The information is all here, just little clarity things! Really great job.

COMPREHENSIVENESS OF INFO: I really love the Acting Style section. I think it's wonderful to have this whole section devoted to something she was known for. I also like the Legacy section quite a bit, because it rounds out the article. I would love to see a section devoted exclusively to the talk of her mysterious death, since it seems to be a huge part of her history, and it's something you mention in the lead section.

ACCURACY OF INFO/CITATIONS: You have a number of wonderful citations! I can't wait to see what you add with that new book you just got. I'm really impressed by how thorough these citations are; great job.

CLARITY OF INFO: In the lead, I would change the first sentence to read "considered by many critics" or something that's more neutral/less general. My only other thought would be starting the first sentence in Early Years with "Adrienne Lecouvreur was born Adrienne Couvreur on..." In general, I think you refer to an individual by their last name for the duration of an article, after having mentioned their first name in the lead. So you'd just write Lecouvreur was... for the rest of it. (But you may want to double-check me on that!)

OTHER: Love it! I can't wait to see what else you come up with. Ashleybirdsell (talk) 21:45, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Kfurano1129

A great start on this article so far, Catalina! Here is my peer review for our class assignment; hope it is helpful!

  • Structure, format and appearance
    • Lead section - this article's lead section provides an excellent overview of the subject, without going into excessive detail and while keeping the majority of content within the body of the article. The lead section also uses in-text links very well. My only suggestion here would be to clean up the sentence structure a bit; I think the information could be expressed in a more succinct and clear manner.
    • Body - the article contains a logical series of section that help organize the context of the article. I have not seen your writing plan, but I think the article might be improved the addition of sections dedicated to her career in at its peak; on the circumstances surrounding her death; and on her personal life (since you mentioned both in the lead section). Of course, this is all dependent on your access to research material on these topics.
    • In-text links and "See Also" section - this article makes excellent use of relevant in-text links throughout, helping increase the a user's understanding of the article. I would suggest the addition of a "See Also" section to strengthen the article, linking to relevant Wikipedia articles not currently covered by the in-text links.
    • External links section - this article currently lacks an "External Links" section, which would strengthen the overall comprehensiveness of the article's contents.
    • Images - the article contains three relevant images of Mlle. Lecouvreur that all adhere to Wikipedia guidelines. My only suggestion would be to revisit the caption on the third image; it is a little unclear.
  • Content and sources
    • Information - this article's content provides a strong overview of the topic, providing both historical context and a largely complete overview of Mlle. Lecouvreur's life. My only suggestions to expand the article's content can be found in the "Body" section above (again, should relevant research be available). The article is also well-sourced and cited, containing references to strong secondary and tertiary sources, including scholarly journals. As with the lead section, I think the language could be a little more succinct throughout.
    • Sources - I would suggest taking another look at the Wikipedia reference standards handout; the citations could be cleaned up a bit. As per Tim riley and Ssilver's comments to me last semester, it seems to be Wiki best practice to separate journal and news sources into the "References" section that will then refer, when necessary to a "Sources" section that lists all book sources. Also, there are several sources you have listed twice, rather than having separate citations refer to the same reference/source. I'd be happy to show you how to fix this!

Keep up the great work! Kfurano1129 (talk) 22:06, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Saturday 5 April 2014, 00:42 UTC)----

Clif Magness[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because this is my first Wikipedia article, and I have a conflict of interest.

Thanks, Brentclemens 18:39, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Friday 4 April 2014, 18:39 UTC)----

Sad Wings of Destiny[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because the Background section has had some additions, and a new section called Reception has been created. Any suggestions about how to improve this article, or what needs to be changed/cut would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Twyfan714 (talk) 13:36, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Friday 4 April 2014, 13:36 UTC)----

Augustin Daly[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review as part of my graduate course in Theater History at Brooklyn College. As of today, Thursday 4/3/2014 the only improvements I have made is I've added the warning templates regarding the need for more historical information and improvements to the references section. As I move forward there are other items on my list that need to be expanded upon or added which will improve the articles quality and they are; Lead section, Images, Biography, Notable Works Chronology, Influence (Local Color, Melodrama, directing style, 'star-maker,' managing style, Theaters (Daly's London and NYC theaters). I may also subdivide existing material into more appropriate sub-headings.

Edits that have been made regard improvements I've made to the reference section. I've deleted a dead-link which has then been re-added and made live again by User:Sideways713. I also reformatted two reference correctly.

Thanks, Brian Kafel (talk) 03:56, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Gdirado[edit]


Lead section – While the lead provides a nice general introduction to the life and career of John Augustin Daly, it should be expanded so that it summarizes all the major points of the article.

Body – The body of the article is logically structured with helpful and appropriate headings. It provides valuable information, and the writing is, for the most part, clear and concise.

In-text links and "See Also" – This article includes many in-text links that are both useful and informative for readers. The “Biography” section is particularly thorough regarding in-text links. In the “Notable works” section, I would recommend linking realism and melodrama to the appropriate articles. There is no “See also” section in this article, so you might want to consider adding that.

External links section – The one external link included is excellent. I think this section could stand to be expanded further, but only if you can find other links that are applicable and add value.

Images – The article contains an image that is relevant to the topic and follows Wikipedia guidelines. If you can find some, it might be helpful to include images from productions of Daly’s plays.


Information – This is article has solid foundation to build upon, but much of the information included in the “Biography” section is not sourced. Some of this information seems to be author’s opinion, and needs further explanation. I’m referring specifically to, “At the first of these, he gathered a company of players, headed by Ada Rehan, which made for it a high reputation, and for them he adapted plays from foreign sources, and revived Shakespearean comedies in a manner before unknown in America.” Sentences like these need to be verified by a reputable source, edited for clarity, and further explained. The “Notable works” section is appropriately sourced and represents clear, verifiable facts. The article is off to a good start, but I would suggest including a section that provides historical context and/or discusses Daly’s legacy. I also really like all of the proposed changes you listed above.

Sources – The sources included all appear to be formatted correctly and are from reputable, scholarly sources. Like I said previously, much of the information in the “Biography” section needs to be cited, and I think the article would be improved by the inclusion of a few extra sources.

Great job so far, Brian! I look forward to seeing your progress! Gdirado (talk)

Comments from CataVillamarin111[edit]

Hi Brian, thanks for clarifying what your edits were. Given that you haven't worked on the article's contents, these are some suggestions of how I would improve it.

Lead section – I would expand this section a little bit. As it is, it's too general. I understand, however, that lead sections get "richer" as the articles themselves get more content. But you have a good start there.

Structure – The "Biography" section has great information, which could be divided into sub-headers. There's a great deal on his career, so you could maybe add more information on his personal life, his education or his youth?

In-text links and references – I agree with Gina: this article has a lot of useful in-text links which are both interesting and relevant. However (and as you have pointed out), the article has a lot of statements that need a citation or to be referenced in order to verify them. If you can, before adding new information, you could hunt down fragments of books and articles and add them as references? I'm only suggesting this because, as your article grows, it will be harder for you to find you way around the edit page to do this.

Images – I like the image on the article, and would love to see some more! Is there a way for you to get images of his plays?

Sounds like you have a great plan for this article and I'm looking forward to reading it at the end of this semester! CataVillamarin111 (talk) 13:19, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Friday 4 April 2014, 03:56 UTC)----

Theatre of Cruelty[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because I am editing and improving the article as an assignment for a Theater History course at CUNY - Brooklyn College.

Thanks, Gdirado (talk) 23:58, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Tim riley

I've made a few minor amendments – typos etc – which please check to see you're happy with them. Revert any you disagree with. This is a most promising article, and I'll certainly look in again shortly with substantive comments. Tim riley (talk) 23:22, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

The article has been improved since Gdirado began work on it last month. I have a few suggestions for further improvement:

  • Theory
    • First two paragraphs lack references. I suggest that if Gdirado thinks they are valid he/she should dig out citations; if they seem like an earlier editor's personal take on the topic they can be removed: all statements in Wikipedia need to comply with our key principles of verifiability, no original research and neutral point of view.
    • Not sure why "impossible theatre" is in bold. Looks rather odd.
    • The statement that Müller, Churchill and Bausch have been identified etc needs a citation to justify it. Who, in short, has so identified them?
    • Block quote at end of section: this was there before Gdirado began work, but I can't work out the strange bursts of capital letters, and the whole block needs sorting out.
  • Empirics
    • I have no idea what "a conceptual heuristic" is. Can this phrase be put in plain English?
    • The para is mostly uncited. If the Walker ref covers all the para it needs to be repeated at the end. If it doesn't a suitable ref is needed.
  • General
    • Quotation marks – Wikipedia's standard is double quotes, so that, e.g., another 'Artaud' and implies, 'untimely' should be tidied up.
    • Except in quotations, where the original spelling must be faithfully reproduced, the spelling of "theatre/theater" should be consistent throughout the article. As the title is "Theatre of Cruelty", that spelling seems called for.

I hope these few points are useful. Don't hesitate to let me know on my talk page if I can be of any further help. – Tim riley (talk) 23:24, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Kfurano1129[edit]

Overall, you have made great progress on this article, Gina - good work! Below you will find my peer review for our class assignment. Hope it is helpful.

  • Structure, format & appearance
    • Lead section - Great use of in-text links in this section! In its current state, the lead provides a sufficient summary of your topic. However, I think it could perhaps be expanded upon slightly to provide a more thorough overview of the article that follows - perhaps a sentence or two about how this philosophy was put into practice on stage and its continuing impact. Also, I'm not quite sure, but I think there should be a citation for Artaud's quote (which is fabulous!).
    • Body - the body of this article is well-structured into logical sections, each providing valuable information on the topic. Great work on this!
    • In-text links and "See Also" - this article is an excellent example of valuable in-text links, which are present throughout and provide necessary insight on the topic to the user. The "See Also" section is also thorough and well-structured.
    • External links section - Good work here so far; the external links provide valuable insight. I think that perhaps this section could be expanded slightly, however. Perhaps you could include links to recent stage productions or more practitioners of this theatrical philosophy.
    • Images - this article currently contains a relevant image that adheres to Wikipedia's guidelines. If possible, it might be beneficial to include an image from an Artaud production.
  • Content and sources
    • Information - this article presents a comprehensive and accurate overview of the topic. The only suggestion that I would make would be to perhaps include information about the origins of Artaud's philosophy historically - who or what were his influences? It would be interesting to learn more about the historical context in which Artaud developed this theatrical philosophy - what was happening in the world that lead to this radical idea?
    • Sources - this article currently uses reliable scholarly sources that support the information provided. However, there are several facts that don't seem to have citations - particularly in the "Theory" section. I think that would strengthen the article as a whole. The current structure of citations and sources sections also doesn't appear to adhere to Wikipedia standards, as I understand them. I would replace the "Footnotes" section with a "References" section that lists all journal and news sources (fully cited), and that then refers to a "Sources" section that lists all books. I had both Tim riley and SSilvers give me this advise last semester, and it seems to more in line with Wiki common practice.

Keep up the great work and I hope this is helpful! Kfurano1129 (talk) 21:09, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Peer Review[edit]

Hello! I think the article is looking good, your improvements have made it a more informative article, and is easy to travel through the article. I would try go get some information about the relationship between the actors and the way Artaud approach the methods theatre of cruelty on them. Aside from that, you could expand on the section of people that use his methods and places that try to experiment with them in the 21rst century. Maybe as you find more information on the subject it can be more subdivided by how Theater of Cruelty affected each single are of the performance (actors, rehersals, experimentation, audience, design...etc)

Looking Good! --BorreroFortier (talk) 19:32, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Tuesday 1 April 2014, 23:58 UTC)----

Theatre Communications Group[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review in order to reach out for additional sources to more strongly verify the information I've added to the article, and to seek out additional facts about Theatre Communications Group that can be verified by reliable secondary or tertiary sources. Since TCG is an existing organization, I've had to rely on many periodical sources, and I hope to increase the reliability of this article with the addition of more scholarly sources with the help of the peer review process.

Since this article is the subject of an assignment for a graduate course, I would also welcome suggestions about the readability and structure of the article thus far. Thanks for your help! Kfurano1129 (talk) 23:21, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Kfurano1129 (talk) 23:21, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Peer review[edit]

LEAD: This is a really thorough description; great job! I would maybe consider combining the first and second paragraphs for flow; or, you could put all of the publication info together (ie TheatreFacts and the American Theatre magazine, etc). That would help the flow, for me!

STRUCTURE: I really like the way you've divided the article up, particularly the subheadings within the membership section. Perhaps you could use subheadings within the Services and Events section as well? (i.e. Grantmaking activities; networking; publications). Otherwise, your structure is very logical and organized, which certainly makes for easy reading.

INTERNAL LINKS: When applicable, there are internal links to other Wiki pages. This topic as a whole does not lend itself to numerous internal links, but these are thorough for what's appropriate. ARTSEARCH in the lead section is a dead link. I like that you've included the list of TCG member theatres in the See Also section. (Would it be appropriate to link this in the text as well? I was hoping for a list when reading the Membership section. Again, not sure what Wiki-land dictates.)

EXTERNAL LINKS: This a great section; I've never really seen an External Links section with such pertinent info! Good job! I think this is great.

IMAGES: Good use of the logo and the Goodman as a founding theatre. I wonder if you could perhaps include a cover of American Theatre.

HISTORY/HISTORICAL DEVELOPMENT: This is well-developed! I would perhaps add some information regarding location, if that's pertinent? Not sure where their offices are. Did its founding members all hail from one region? That would be fun to know.

COMPREHENSIVENESS OF INFO: Overall, I think this is coming along very nicely! It was an easy but informative read, and I definitely benefitted from reading about TCG. You answered any and all questions I had while reading, and I didn't spot any glaring holes, in terms of comprehensiveness.

ACCURACY OF INFO/CITATIONS: From what I know about TCG, your information is accurate. I'm definitely impressed by your citation efforts! Everything looks incredibly well-referenced.

CLARITY OF INFO: My only concern would be the inconsistent use of TCG versus Theater Communications Group. You use both interchangeably, which doesn't bother me, but I'm not sure if one is preferred over the other in Wiki-land?

OTHER: Love it! Great job; can't wait to see what else you come up with this semester. Ashleybirdsell (talk) 21:12, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Tuesday 1 April 2014, 23:21 UTC)----

Concept musical[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because it is part of an educational assignment for the spring 2014 semester. I've worked to add a cohesive definition, a history regarding the origin of the concept musical, a discussion of the first concept musical, and a history of its development.

I plan on adding a section regarding more modern examples, and a section that considers Stephen Sondheim's impact on the genre. After filling out these remaining sections, I'm going to rewrite the lead section to be more thorough.

I'm looking for feedback regarding: what else could possibly be added, and any ways to connect this article more to musical theatre as its 'parent' genre. I'm interested in how the concept musical springs from and feeds into musical theatre's varying forms and popularity. Any other thoughts are of course greatly appreciated!

Thanks very much, Ashleybirdsell (talk) 23:18, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Peer review[edit]

Lead section: It's simple statement, but it gives me the idea of what is concept musical! i like simple.

Definition: It has a lot of information. Personally, i was confused a bit, because it's me!. There are slightly different thoughts of concept musical by many critics in this section. i think if there was a definition that you think most right and explanation about what critics have thought about it.

History: This section is great. I can see the concept musical's history. Are you going to add up more of recent shows?

sorry for my poor review. It is good time for me to go over your article and i learned from yours. I am looking forward to seeing your final draft! Nossoju (talk) 17:48, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Peer Review by CataVillamarin111[edit]

Overall, I think you're doing an amazing job with this article, especially when the definitions for this subject are so relative. I love how maintain neutrality by citing and referring to critics. A really smart thing to do. These are some things that I liked and that I would suggest.

Lead Section

I like how short but concise it is, and how you mention some key dates without giving the full detail. THis will sound incredibly shallow, and I don't really know how to do this, but I would consider adding an image to this first section to make in look more attractive to readers.


This is a very thorough section with lots of relevant in-text links that certainly enrich the experience of reading through the article. I really like how you divided this section into decades: makes it look more polished, and easier to digest.

As for the Modern Examples section, my first guess is that you're probably still working on it, right? Because up until this point you have been really thorough and detailed and there's a lot of great information. In any case, I would encourage you to expand this section further (if this information is available) because you have done an incredible job with it so far.

I hope I had more suggestions to make, but I don't know much about this topic. In fact, I feel I have learned a lot from reading this article. I look forward to reading your final version (and learning some more with it).CataVillamarin111 (talk) 19:17, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Note to reviewers

Instructions to reviewers, given here, state that level 2 or 3 headings should not be used to subdivide reviews, as these disrupt the WP:PR page. I have adjusted the ehadings in this review to level 4, which is OK to use. Brianboulton (talk) 23:30, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Tuesday 1 April 2014, 23:18 UTC)----

Geography and places[edit]

SM Lanang Premier[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because… I wanted to improve the article.. Thanks, Funbeta 15:47, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Monday 21 April 2014, 15:47 UTC)----


I've listed this article for peer review because the first time I visited it was a real mess - it lacked references and contained much anecdotal material. As I was born there I thought Penge should at least have an accurate Wikipedia entry and have done my best to improve it (with the help of other editors and despite the odd vandal).

I feel that it is now in reasonable shape and would like views on what needs to be done to improve it further. For a comparatively small area, is this article of excessive size or should the virtually unlimited space on Wikipedia keep being filled, as long as it is factual and referenced? Are there any omissions?

Along the way I have found that the Library at the House of Commons most helpful with such things as Ordnance Survey maps made for Electoral Boundary Redistribution which can fill the gaps between normal OS editions. Thanks, Bebofpenge (talk) 12:40, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

You might want to have a look at WP:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements for sections that have been missed, and it's probably worth your while to take a look at User:Tony1/How to improve your writing for style. To answer your specific questions, no it's not too long - Crystal Palace, London is double the length, but I would say that the Penge article goes into excessive detail in places whilst missing out whole sections elsewhere. For instance, the street name changes can go while the cultural references are excessive and could probably be halved at least. I know Penge is one of those places that attracts comment, but you need to think about quality over quantity, or "farming out" references to other articles. For instance, one scene of Buddha of Suburbia isn't worth a mention here, but might just about be worth mentioning in the Penge East railway station article. That applies to other aspects, in particular there needs to be some thought about the relationship with the Crystal Palace article. I know that originally it was all Penge, but there's no shortage of things to talk about and that area is well covered in the CP article so I'd concentrate on the bits that are more exclusively Pengian(?). Another thing is that the article is currently rather "listy" in places, I know it can't be avoided entirely but you should try to make the text more continuous. Le Deluge (talk) 22:21, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Cas Liber[edit]

  • Lead should be about double the size. Select 3 or 4 of the most interesting/important facts and build the lead.
  • Politics of area - labour or tory? embellish....
  • Surely can enlarge Economy section?
  • Take out the bullet points from Culture and community and Landmarks sections - should be able to write as prose.
  • Need to cite Cultural references section.

(Peer review added on Wednesday 5 March 2014, 12:40 UTC)----


Manuel I of Trebizond[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because... well, I've put a lot of effort into creating a comprehensive article on a subject most references don't provide as much information. I'd like to think it could become a FA, but I doubt I have the patience to take it that far, so I'll stop if it reaches as far as GA. Anyway, I know there are points in this article that need polishing or improving, so I'm asking for input on the writing of this article, how well the information is presented. And if you happen to be an expert on the Empire of Trebizond -- although an esoteric portion of Byzantine studies, there are a few of them out there -- feel free to correct the facts or suggest further sources on Manuel Megas Kmonenos.

Thanks, llywrch (talk) 06:08, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Monday 14 April 2014, 06:08 UTC)----

Theodore Roosevelt[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because this is a former FA that I'd like to at least get back up to GA. Feedback before GA nomination would be very helpful.

Thanks, XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 21:17, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Ian Rose[edit]

Hi, well done taking on the considerable task of improving this article. I just now took a very quick pass, mainly spotchecking for prose/style and referencing:

  • Prose/style-wise, I tweaked a few things, and based on that would suggest that a decent copyeditor should give it the once-over.
  • There are many unreferenced statements and paragraphs that need to be addressed before GAN, let alone FAC. A good rule of thumb is to ensure every paragraph ends with a citation (meaning the entire paragraph is sourced to that reference -- if more sources are involved, then several citations may need to be sprinkled throughout the paragraph, as well as at the end).

Those are just what stood out on a brief look, if I can return to offer more detailed comments, I will, but you should have something to go on with for a bit... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 22:14, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you Ian. I'll do some more work and reach you afterwards. XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 22:26, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Hchc2009[edit]

One of my favourite US presidents...!

  • I was surprised not to see a bit more (possibly in footnotes) as to how different historians have interpreted Roosevelt in differing ways. He's a controversial figure, and views do differ, which doesn't really come through in the current text.
  • I'm sure he sparked controversy, but am not able to find that many historians who speak of him negatively (although I personally ensured that the text in this article itself is neutral), only other politicians. Will search, though.
  • If you've got access, have a look at "King Ted, the human dynamo", the review of Morris's book by Ernest R. May in the Times Literary Supplement (including its commentary on Pringle's biography) and Francisco E. Gonzaley's reply, along with May's collective review "Hero of a strenuous age". Hchc2009 (talk) 07:19, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • I'd echo Ian's points about referencing - there are a lot of gaps at the moment.
  • Removed lots of uncited content
  • The referencing needs to be made consistent - have a look at the reference list, and you'll see that there a whole range of different styles being used.
  • I'll work on that
  • Check that the references have page numbers - some which need them don't have them yet.
  • Will work on that
  • For web pages, ensure that all the relevant information is given (publisher, date of publication etc.) whenever possible.
  • Will do
  • Watch out for the stubby, one or two sentence paragraphs - they don't make for easy reading, and there are quite a few in the article at the moment.
  • Cleaned those out
  • Worth checking that all the sources are reliable and high quality - one or two look a bit questionable.
  • Which ones?
  • Examples (excluding dead links)
  • Is a high quality source for historical analysis?
  • Apparently not as it is a blog. Will remove as soon as I can find it within the article.
  • "Amberger, J Christoph, Secret History of the Sword Adventures in Ancient Martial Arts " - probably good for ancient martial arts, but is it a high quality source for Teddy's life?
  • I'll check that ref, but will say this: calling him "Teddy" is essentially dishonoring him as he very openly hated being called that. Please point out where this ref is as I can't seem to locate it.
  • (which throws up malware warning messages on my system so some caution might be applied. Hchc2009 (talk) 07:19, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Not sure why a genealogy site would give such warnings, but I'll look for something which should be less problematic. At the time, it was the only source I could find for some bits of ancestry.
  • Check for deadlinks (I've found at least one).
  • Shouldn't be a problem
  • I'd consider doing a pruning of the external links. Hchc2009 (talk) 08:36, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Any specific ones you recommend removing? XXSNUGGUMSXX (talk) 22:53, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Wednesday 2 April 2014, 21:17 UTC)----

Silent Spring[edit]

Level-4 vital article in Art. Important book in the history of environmental regulations, history of pesticide usage, and environmentalism. Listing this under History for that reason.

Would like to see areas where the article need improvement and to be expanded.

I've noticed the article was somewhat lacking recently, so I decided to take material from the main Rachel Carson article that relates to the book over to this article as a starting point. That article has a FA rating, and is very well written.

I have also attempted to improve the lede of the article.

--Harizotoh9 (talk) 07:15, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Tezero[edit]

  • Elaborate on Beyond Silent Spring, particularly since it doesn't have an article. It could actually get its own section.
  • "In regards to the pesticide DDT, Carson never actually called for an outright ban. Part of the argument she made in Silent Spring was that even if DDT and other insecticides had no environmental side effects, their indiscriminate overuse was counter-productive because it would created insect resistance to the pesticide(s), making the pesticides useless in eliminating the target insect populations" - While this isn't in direct violation of WP:NPOV, it comes off as an editorial argument against a pre-established position. There are citations later on that some people thought Carson was calling for an outright ban; either add them up there as well or just remove all mentions in "Contents" of Carson not calling for an outright ban. ...Does this make sense? I hope so.
  • Also, it should be "she makes in Silent Spring", not "made"; this is a general convention for describing stances.
  • The intro's fairly short given the size of the article.
  • You could also probably can the citations in the intro.
  • "Frank Edwin Egler was a contributor to the book." - Obviously, find a source. In addition, though, either merge this into the preceding paragraph (which is also far on the short side) or elaborate significantly on how he contributed.

Tezero (talk) 01:17, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Monday 31 March 2014, 07:15 UTC)----

Natural sciences and mathematics[edit]


I've listed this article for peer review because…

Prior to FA nomination.

Comments especially desired from:

  • editors with knowledge of FA process
  • editors with no specialist knowledge of the subject on how understandable the prose is (i.e. any jargon needing to be explained, etc.)

Thanks, Lesion 11:27, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

  • Comment: Why are the paragraph lengths in the intro so wildly uneven? Tezero (talk) 01:26, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
We are working on copyediting the whole article, which includes putting in normal length paragraphs. It is about 50% done which is why currently there are weird length paragraphs. Lesion 09:30, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Oh hey, just re-read your comment and you said in the intro. Currently the paragraphs are divided into concepts such as "causes", "treatment". The v short paragraph perhaps could be merged into another which might help this. Lesion 00:36, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from LT910001[edit]

As always very thorough! And a wonderful and interesting history section.

Some brief comments:

  • Quite a few sentences that tail paragraphs lack sources.
  • There are a lot of parentheses, which in my opinion makes it hard to read, although I recognise this is a matter of opinion! Some ways to get rid of these:
    • Creative use of wikilinks. For example: Pain is transmitted by pain receptors
    • Common description followed by technical term: Pain is transmitted by pain receptors (nociceptors)
    • Integrating parentheses into text, especially when they're at the end of a sentence: "which applies to any case where there is a collection of pus in the tissues (e.g. a periodontal abscess, pericoronal abscess or apical abscess). " --> " - for example, a periodontal abscess, pericoronal abscess... "
    • Use of {{efn}} and {{notelist}} for longer notes
    • Rewording from one to two sentences: "The pain pathway is mostly transmitted via myelinated Aδ (sharp or stabbing pain) and unmyelinated C nerve fibers (slow, dull, aching or burning pain), of the trigeminal nerve" -> "The pain pathway is mostly transmitted via myelinated Aδ and unmyelinated C nerve fibers of the trigeminal nerve. The Aδ fibres convey the sensation of sharp or stabbing pain, and the C fibres slow, dull, aching or burning pain..."
    • Removing if the words are just synonyms "Extra-dontally (outside the mouth), " -> "Outside the mouth, "
  • Some paragraphs are very long, and separating into two sections might improve readability
  • Some references with inline page numbers have different page numbers in text. For example this references (currently #18) in text is referred to with page 303: Hupp JR, Ellis E, Tucker MR (2008). Contemporary oral and maxillofacial surgery (5th ed.). St. Louis, Mo.: Mosby Elsevier. pp. 619–627. ISBN 978-0-323-04903-0.
  • Have done a very small run-through to get rid of some parentheses at the end of sentences and hope that is OK.

Good luck! --LT910001 (talk) 12:33, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the detailed feedback. Perhaps there are too many parentheses. Agree with your edits and these sections read better now. Regarding use of notes on this page, this might be good to reduce the overall length. Ian Furst, thoughts? Suspect there are many issues that will be raised with the refs at FA review. To get rid of all page ranges in reflist, and move them to inline citation by use of {{rp|XX}} might be the way forward... Something else that I noticed is that the authors' names are not given in a standardized format. E.g. we have B. Black; Bernard Black, Black, B. etc. Lesion 17:48, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Saturday 12 April 2014, 11:27 UTC)----

Scotopic sensitivity syndrome[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because scotopic sensitivity is a controversial topic, and recent edits have promoted the "pro" argument. The article needs balance, and would benefit from a review by someone with unbiased knowledge in reading disorders.

Thanks, WWGB (talk) 01:22, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Monday 7 April 2014, 01:22 UTC)----


I've listed this article for peer review because... this article isn't perfect, but I'd like to eventually get it to GA. I haven't edited this particular article much, and would like the input of other users on what areas need work to get it there, as it is sometimes easier to have a definitive list. Specific, definite and "actionable" points would be most appreciated.

  • Ping to Flyer22, who has worked with me in the past on these reproductive system-related articles.

Thanks, LT910001 (talk) 10:23, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Tezero[edit]

  • The article seems biased towards human placentas.
  • Is there a source for the statement about the two plurals of the word "placenta"?
  • Lots of short paragraphs around. Also short sections that may be better off merged together if expansion is not possible.
  • Some unsourced statements as well.
  • "Structure" in particular seems wanting of expansion.
  • Similarly, "Clinical significance" should be retitled to something more representative of its contents, and should also be significantly expanded with regards to each disease mentioned.

Tezero (talk) 23:23, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback. I'll try and get to these in the next week or so. --LT910001 (talk) 21:03, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Wednesday 2 April 2014, 10:23 UTC)----

Radial glial cell[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because I have completely redone the article. Minor fixes that may need improvement are fomating (commas, sentence structure) as well as wikilinks and flow. Please also comment on any content that you think should be added/changes.

Please also note that this is the first wiki page I have worked on, so any advice is appreciated!

Thanks, Anjely9 (talk) 20:21, 4 March 2014 (UTC)Anjely9

Comments from EricEnfermero I notice that this request has been here for a while with no comments. I'm a nurse, and certainly no subject matter expert, but I'm happy to leave some comments. Mostly, I think that there are some opportunities to make the language a little bit more accessible to the non-scientist reader.

  • Words like progenitor come up several times. I know you link to that term, but you might also explain in a few words, especially in the lead, where you're introducing the reader to the topic.
  • Same thing for the use of unipotent and multipotent - may be better as "can divide into (one/multiple) cell types"
  • "various varicosities or swellings" - is this a direct quote from Magini? Best to include an inline citation directly after a quote.
  • "Additional early works that were..." - passive voice makes this a little confusing
  • Functions section: I'm confused about whether Notch should be capitalized in this context.
  • "first widely-accepted" - usually no hyphen after an -ly adverb.
  • lowercase for glia in the Bergmann glia image
  • lowercase for lissencephaly x 2
  • See also: In most cases, we don't include wikilinks here if they've already been linked and discussed in the body.
  • References: Some caps issues in the references. For journal names, each major word is usually capitalized.

These are some initial comments for at least a starting place. Strong work so far! EricEnfermero HOWDY! 03:15, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Tuesday 4 March 2014, 20:21 UTC)----

Language and literature[edit]

Dylan Thomas[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because I would eventually like to push the article forward for FAC status in time for the centenary of Thomas' death in October.

Thanks, FruitMonkey (talk) 17:18, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Wednesday 23 April 2014, 17:18 UTC)----

Night of January 16th[edit]

Previous peer review

This article was promoted to good article status a few months ago and I would like put it up as a featured article candidate. My request for peer review prior to GA got no feedback, so maybe the article is too perfect to be critiqued (LOL). But since I've never gone to FAC before, I thought I should give PR another pass at it first.

Thanks, RL0919 (talk) 15:57, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Wednesday 23 April 2014, 15:57 UTC)----

List of Bleach chapters (1–187)[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to get some feedback about changes if this article need some cause I would like to nominate it for a featured article.

Thank you for your time, (Nightwolf87 (talk) 15:50, 18 April 2014 (UTC))

Comments by DragonZero
  • Remove leading zeros
  • deadurl=no for archive links
  • Update Viz links to live versions
  • Put the chapters in single column. Depending on zoom, seeing chapters take more than one line is very very ugly.
  • Update with 3 in 1 edition and digital volumes. Make an extra table for it. An example would be like List of Rozen Maiden volumes#Shinsōban.

Take this advice for the other chapter lists and close the request for PR all but this one. The only difference would be prose, which I don't feel like checking right now. DragonZero (Talk · Contribs) 10:24, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Friday 18 April 2014, 15:50 UTC)----

Holly Goddard Jones[edit]

Thanks, TheWarOfArt (talk) 21:09, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Tuesday 15 April 2014, 21:09 UTC)----

Philosophy and religion[edit]

David Malet Armstrong[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because at some point I would like to nominate it for GA. I've been steadily working on the article over the last few years and taken it from this to what you now see. I nominated it for DYK at one point, but a paragraph of exposition wasn't sourced and I was too busy in real life to fix it, so the DYK was declined.

I have more sources to add: the section on 'Mind' needs expanding with some of Armstrong's criticisms of other theories and ideas in philosophy of mind, and the epistemology section needs beefing up with Armstrong's early work on Berkeley and perception and various other works.

My question for this PR are:

  1. Are there ways I can make this more accessible to the lay reader? I have used this article as a pointer for graduate student level readers trying to understand some of the more technical parts of Armstrong's writing like the Principle of Instantial Invariance. I want this article to be useful as an overview of Armstrong's ideas for the lay reader as well as a useful and informative technical description of his ideas for a more advanced reader.
  2. What do I need to do to get this to GA standard?
  3. What other ways are there to improve this article?

Thanks. —Tom Morris (talk) 05:19, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Friday 11 April 2014, 05:19 UTC)----

Etchmiadzin Cathedral[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because I want to make it as perfect as possible before nominating it for Featured article. I've been working on it since early November of last year and it passed as a Good article in December. I prefer an experienced editor to review this article. As you may have already noticed, English isn't my first language and I do make a lot of mistakes (both grammatical errors and simple typos), so it would be helpful to point them out to me or just correct them.

Thanks, Երևանցի talk 04:10, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

well, it might be ready, but I would ask someone who's good at copyediting to give the article a once-over. also, check all the refs, make sure they actually say what they're supporting. check the licensing on the images as well. -- Aunva6talk - contribs 13:16, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
A copy edit would be helpful, but I'm a little skeptic about copy editors, because they often do more harm than good. I will review the article a few more times before nominating. --Երևանցի talk 20:33, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
I've just been reading through it and making some changes. I feel the quality of the article is poor, and the references used are particularly bad (mostly general works for non-specialist readers). It needs a lot of work done on its content, and better references - preferably specialist books about Armenian architecture. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 02:37, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Tuesday 1 April 2014, 04:10 UTC)----

Sri Aurobindo[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because want to this article to FA suggestions in converting this to FA would be helpfull

Thanks, Shrikanthv (talk) 10:47, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Spike Wilbury[edit]

  • I noted that you have quite a few citations to autobiographical works and self-published works. Ensure only basic facts are cited there, and nothing controversial or requiring academic inquiry or confirmation. For these you need secondary sources.
  • Check wikilinks; key terms should be linked in the lead and then first mention in the body. For example, ICS. Also check for double-redirects; your first link to ICS goes to a page that redirects elsewhere.
  • "turned into a spiritual reformer" is an awkward phrase. Maybe "became a spiritual reformer" or "refocused on spiritual reform".
  • " writing articles against their rule" Clarify what is meant here. Opposing their rule? Critical of their rule?
  • "Sri Aurobindo evolved a new method of spiritual practice" Evolved is an awkward term. Invented? Developed?
  • "Aurobindo was the first Indian to create a major literary corpus in English." This strikes me as something that could be challenged, and it is sourced to something that looks like a college textbook. Do you have any other academic sources about this? Do you have any information on the strength and authority of that book?
  • The Early Life section seems lightly cited. Do the citations at the ends of the paragraphs support all the text? If you go to FAC, reviewers may request more citations.

Will return with more later. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 15:07, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, have started to work on that but Spike Wilbury , have little concern over claims such as below

" Although his family were Bengali, his father believed British culture to be superior to that of his countrymen. "

the actual book here and at page 6

I feel its a wrong claim , Their is another senior editor involved in current correction, so what would be the right thing to do ? (unless if have to go for edit wars ) Shrikanthv (talk) 06:34, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

The source given at the end of that paragraph is Heehs (2008), pp. 8-9. Do you understand how our citation system works in this case? Anyway, the source on p. 8 seems to support that claim. --Spike Wilbury (talk) 11:24, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Thursday 27 March 2014, 10:47 UTC)----

Social sciences and society[edit]

Canoe & Kayak UK[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because I would like an independent assessment of the article's quality with suggestions for improving the article for a Good Article nomination.

Thanks, Jamesmcmahon0 (talk) 10:44, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Some comments
  • "is the best-selling British" --> "is a best-selling..."
  • What is a "canoeing magazine"? Link it.
  • I think it's better if it's like "Canoe & Kayak UK is a best-selling British canoeing magazine. Published worldwide, it covers all branches of British canoeing and kayaking, but is primarily focused on sea, surf and whitewater paddling."
  • Link that "sea" to "sea kayak", "surf" to "surf kayaking", and "whitewater paddling" to "whitewater paddling".
  • In the infobox, fix the "sports magazines" link. Replace with "Sports magazine"
  • I think it's better if the logo will be replaced by the mag cover down there because the cover, place down there, has no relevance. So it's better if it's in the infobox. After all, the logo is also there.
  • History section is very short. Should be expanded.
  • Regular features section is mostly unsourced. Back them up with reliable sources.
  • And other sections are very short and has no sources at all. I think you should merge some sections.
  • References also have problems. Ref 1 is dead and the rest are bare urls and have no footnotes. Fix them. Provide the author, date, accessdate, publisher, work, title, etc. See Template:Cite web
  • The article, accord. to the talk page, is assessed as "B". I think this should be "Start" class because it's not that complete yet.

Those are my comments. Hope this helps! Thanks. (talk) 09:54, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments, I've made changes based on some of them, some will take a bit longer though. I'll do more later. Jamesmcmahon0 (talk) 13:19, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Wednesday 9 April 2014, 10:44 UTC)----

Alex Morgan[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because I would like feedback on improving it to meet WP:GA?.

Thanks, Hmlarson (talk) 17:05, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Sunday 6 April 2014, 17:05 UTC)----


List of currencies in North America[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review as I withdrew the previous FLC, but I feel I have adequetly addressed the issues there, and brought the article up to a sufficient standard to be taken there again. However, I want a second opinion on the quality of the article. Thanks, Matty.007 18:18, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Tuesday 8 April 2014, 18:18 UTC)----

List of SpongeBob SquarePants cast members[edit]

I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to get this to FL status. I would like to hear some comments on the whole article's prose (if you find some problems or awkward wordings, etc) before nominating it at WP:FLC so it can be fixed. Thanks in advance for taking time to review this article. :)

Thanks, Mediran (tc) 11:16, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

I'm afraid I have no real experience with FLC, but I'm happy to have a look through and offer some thoughts.

  • "upon the cancellation of Rocko's Modern Life." It would be good if you could provide a bit more context on why this was relevant. "upon the cancellation of Rocko's Modern Life, which Hillenburg directed." (or whatever)
    • Done.
  • "Kenny and Catlett were the first cast members to receive award nominations for their voice-over performance." for their performance on SpongeBob, surely?
    • Done.
  • Interesting thought, but the addition of a non-free sample of SpongeBob's voice may be useful. I'm certainly left wondering what it sounds like!
    • I'll start looking for a good sample. Thanks :)
  • I don't really like the phrase "speaks the voice" or "performs the voice". "Voices" or "provides the voice of" are better
    • Fixed.
  • Be aware of MOS:LQ. See "Lawrence had "an interesting voice." Grillo" and "Squidward was "a very nasally, monotone kind of guy," said Bumpass."
    • Fixed.
  • "the characters of Patchy the Pirate, the president of the fictional SpongeBob SquarePants fan club, and his pet called Potty the Parrot debuted. The former is portrayed by Kenny, while series creator Hillenburg voiced the latter." Mention the fact Patchy is live action explicitly? Also, is the fan club fictional? Can kids not join it?
    • Is "...and his pet called Potty the Parrot debuted. The former is portrayed by Kenny in live-action, while series creator Hillenburg voiced the latter." better? And yes, that fan club exists only within the show's context.

Generally seems like a very strong article. Sources and pictures seem appropriate. J Milburn (talk) 18:04, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Wow. Thank you very much! This is very helpful! :) Mediran (tc) 08:16, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

(Peer review added on Saturday 29 March 2014, 11:16 UTC)----

WikiProject peer-reviews[edit]