Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bugs and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

Newcomers to the technical village pump are encouraged to read these guidelines prior to posting here. Questions about MediaWiki in general should be posted at the MediaWiki support desk.

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Template access to Preferences:Appearance:Offset (or local time generated from it)?[edit]

I'm doing a template that will show today in both the Western Calendar and the Hebrew Calendar. What I would like to have access to is the Preferences Appearances:Offset value (or something related) in order for the template to change what day it displays for the Western Calendar at Midnight based on the user preferences for offset (and the Hebrew date to change at 6PM). Is the information as to what the user has as their Offset value available to templates? (Asked on Help Desk, the suggestion was to post here)Naraht (talk) 13:53, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

That is not possible, as it would either show a version of the page cached with someone else's timezone preference or would fragment the caches. To do something like this, you'd have to have some sort of JavaScript (in common.js or a gadget) that would add in the user-specific date on the client side. Anomie 17:32, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
I guess that makes sense, everything that the offset affects are pages where they have to be calculated each time in areas like special. However it is possible to have templates that include the date and time, so this would cause a more rapid flush of the cache, correct?Naraht (talk) 15:20, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, they do to an extent. Also the times displayed by such templates may well be out of date. Anomie 11:09, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
@Anomie: And to the extreme, they can include time. Can this cause the cache to empty every second? (I'm curious as to whether there are things in pages that would force the cache to be emptied quicker) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naraht (talkcontribs) 18:47, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
No, there is a minimum. Offhand I think it's one day, but I don't recall for certain and I'm not feeling like looking it up at the moment ;) Anomie 04:14, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
Accessing an article today the box says "Today Tuesday 27 January 2015 AD 7 Bahman 1393 SH 6 Rabi'al - Thani 1436 AH". The source code is "Today|AD|SH|AH". Actually there are curly brackets round that but I haven't included them because I don't know what will happen. When I tried to insert that template into a page all I got was a link to a U S television programme. Can someone explain how the workings of this template can be unearthed? - The template has just been updated, but I'd still like an answer to my question. (talk) 09:45, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
More info: there is a "Template: Today" marked "This page is about U.S. TV program. It is not to be confused with Date - computing templates based on current time." Clicking on this link leads to "category Date - computing templates based on current time", and clicking on "Template:Today|AD|SH|AH" simply brings up what appears in the article. Now I see this text is editable (from "Editing Template: Today|AD|SH|AH") and the source text contains lots of parameters in curly brackets. Taking one of these at random, "CURRENT DAYNAME" produces the output "Wednesday". So where is the interface which enables editors to check whether a template does what it says on the tin? (talk) 13:04, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
The template you're looking for is Template:Today/AD/SH/AH with forward slashes ("/") rather than pipes ("|"). In template syntax, pipes separate a template name from its parameters, so {{Today|AD|SH|AH}} invokes Template:Today, the navbox about the TV program. {{Today/AD/SH/AH}} invokes the correct Template:Today/AD/SH/AH. SiBr4 (talk) 15:00, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Interwiki link[edit]

Hi, Can someone put in links between The Sea Girl and A Menina do Mar on the Portuguese Wikipedia, Thanks GrahamHardy (talk) 15:25, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks ! GrahamHardy (talk) 16:29, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Compact Personal Toolbar beta removed[edit]

This is notification that Jared Zimmerman has now removed the beta feature Compact Personal Bar which reduced the top menu items to a dropdown menu and simple icons for the watchlist and notifications. I'd even forgotten this was a beta feature so very sad to see it go. It was the first time I'd seen a design move away from a text-heavy interface, one of the—if not the most—important factors in Wikipedia's look being off-putting to readers and those we should be encouraging to edit. Hopefully this is just a prelude to the introduction of the Winter/Fixed Site Header feature (which uses a similar system), but I don't see why it isn't available as a gadget for those people happy to keep using the toolbar before that is released. SFB 22:16, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

It requires some server-side code, so a gadget is not possible. Personally, I found the design pretty horrid, with it's non-descriptive icons, which jumped all over the place when scrolling, so nothing had a fixed spot. Imagine a car where the accelerator and brakes moved around depending on which way you steered... I do hope that Winter is more intuitive and not too afraid of text. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 22:37, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
@Sillyfolkboy, Edokter: Well, since the extension, VectorBeta, is still loaded, you can activate it with an one-liner in vector.js: mw.loader.load("skins.vector.compactPersonalBar"); There is a discussion on undeploying the extension from WMF wikis. Zhaofeng Li [talk... contribs...] 00:07, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
@Edokter: I feel that the Winter prototype strikes the image-to-text balance in the interface very well. I understood the setup within a minute. I think this is the first technical change for Wikipedia that I've actually been excited about and immediately see value in. If categories and portals are added to the right rail then that will completely transform the way we interact with and use those areas. SFB 00:56, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
SFB, I've heard that it was removed because it broke the mw:Universal Language Selector. It will be back as soon as they can get the bug fixed (maybe as early as next Wednesday, if I've read the deployment calendar correctly). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:09, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
No, it was removed because currently there are no plans to fix it in the short term. --Glaisher (talk) 18:15, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Renaming of User:Zhaofeng Li/Reflinks[edit]

Hello, folks! Since the the original Reflinks tool is working again on his own server, User:GoingBatty suggests that we use another name for the new tool on Tool Labs. This makes sense, since it's confusing to have two tools with the same name, and the current name doesn't get the purpose of the tool (expanding bare references) across very well. The localised version of the name in Chinese is 来源扩充 (as in "citation expander") which makes its purpose clear. Any idea for a concise name? Zhaofeng Li [talk... contribs...] 00:37, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

@Zhaofeng Li: Bummer - looks like Wikipedia:Citation expander already exists. GoingBatty (talk) 01:23, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
@GoingBatty: True, and it's too long anyway. Zhaofeng Li [talk... contribs...] 01:31, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
@Zhaofeng Li: "RefMaker" or "CiteMaker" also seem to be taken. Maybe "CiteExpand"? GoingBatty (talk) 01:38, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps we could have a naming contest on Zhaofeng Li's talk page, or a brainstorming session. I thought of "CiteIt", but that's a commercial product. Could we include all or part of Zhaofeng Li's name, or the English meaning of the characters, in honor of the creator? Any groan-worthy puns, like "AppleCiter"? – Margin1522 (talk) 04:40, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Maybe something like "zLinks", "zLinkRefs" or "zLinkrefs" could fit the bill? With "zLi", any of them would honor the creator. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 08:25, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
@Zhaofeng Li, Margin1522, Dsimic: Agree with the idea of a contest/brainstorming sessiom on Zhaofeng Li's talk page. As of now, I would pick something with "zLi" in it over my previous suggestion. GoingBatty (talk) 13:02, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for all your comments! I'll start a brainstorming session on the tool's talk page later when I have more time. Face-smile.svg Zhaofeng Li [talk... contribs...] 08:49, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Article assessment links STILL not working[edit]

These links have been broken about 50% of the time for the past 6 months or so, it is very frustrating. I refer to the links on this table here: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Anatomy#Article_assessment_statistics. Is it possible to file a bug report or change the links to a tool that works? Cheers, --Tom (LT) (talk) 04:13, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Day 3 and still not working. Tool is "enwp10". Example link is [1]. --Tom (LT) (talk) 20:59, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
If you urgently need some lists, Catscan 2 on WMFlabs can provide similar results. Just search for the needed category and check the correct page type in "Namespaces" (usually the talk page). A pre-defined example query for Anatomy templates would be "[11]=1&doit=1" (nowiki here, because of [] characters). You can also search for specific importance levels, listing both class and importance category as selection criterion. Hope that helps a bit, while we wait for the "enwp10" project to recover (can't help with that - not a developer or tools writer). GermanJoe (talk) 00:58, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

@CBM: ^^ (as the only obviously active maintainer listed at :-) --Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 01:04, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I was logged in for other reasons and noticed this message. I am no longer a maintainer. I have requested to have my name removed from the list - I think that a cached version is being shown. I can say that the wp10 project could use one or more additional maintainers, but I cannot do it at this time. — Carl (CBM · talk) 01:35, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Project has been restarted and works again (thanks Theopolisme). See also Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Index with some information about that project and recent requests and questions. GermanJoe (talk) 13:41, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
+1 confirmed results are now available. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 14:46, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Indian Religions: mobile site picture cropping[edit]

I don't know what team to talk to about this, but I figured you guys would know.

While this is a great shot of the statue, I think that on mobile devices, this is probably not the photo we want to see here. The crop places undue visual emphasis on the statue's genitals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spaceboss (talkcontribs) 18:49, 25 January 2015‎ (UTC)

Is this the Wikipedia app? It seems to center the first image it finds. I've swapped the two top images. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 19:16, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, that was the Wikipedia app. It's good to know how to change the picture it grabs for the header - it looks great now. Spaceboss (talk) 20:32, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for posting a link to the image. User:Deskana (WMF) may already have this problem on his list. I believe that this only affects the Android app (not what you would see if you used a web browser on an Android device). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:13, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the feedback. I've submitted a patch that changes the cropping of images to focus the top of the image rather than the centre. That should stop this kind of thing from happening. In the mean time, changing the image should also work. Thanks! --Dan Garry, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 17:54, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Arabic font[edit]

Does anyone know if something about the way WP displays Arabic has changed recently? For me, it seems to be clashing with the proceeding Latin script, which I'm 100% certain it didn't used to. Formerip (talk) 20:44, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

@FormerIP: Is this the same as #Arabic display issues above? --Redrose64 (talk) 23:19, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
It could be related, but it is happening for me with the lang template already in place. I am seeing the last part of the Arabic (bearing in mind Arabic reads right-to-left) overlaid with the last past of the preceding Latin. I also *think* the font looks different overall. I was wondering whether maybe someone who has access has been playing around, which might explain it. Formerip (talk) 23:33, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Formerip, what's your broswer and OS? Can you link to an article that has this problem? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:37, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
the description sounds very similar to an issue Google Chrome browser developed recently (well, not that recently: several months ago, maybe with version 38 or 39) with RTL languages - the problem seems to be closely related with use of diacritics in the text. so if the browser is chrome, and the problem does not appear with other browsers (prolly better to compare with IE of FF, not safari), please file a bug report with google (either through Menu=>About=>Report, or simply Alt+ Shift+I). i sent a report several months back, but i think that the more people report the issue, the better chances it gets to actually getting fixed. if you do send a report, i think it's best to use "permanent link" from the side-bar to get a link to the page (press "permanent link", and then issue the report - chrome will include the link in the report automagically), so the report will remain valid even if someone edits the page in a way that disappears the issue. peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 19:56, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Search Reverts[edit]

Is there a way to contributions search an editor's history of "undo" reverts?

If not, is there any possibility of implementing a tag, or preferably and easier a checkbox, that would filter the contribution list to show all the "undo" reverts implemented by an editor?

It appears that "tags" has "Rapid reverts" as an option, but when I put the option in the tags field, it doesn't work for registered editors (as indicated by the description "Non-autoconfirmed user rapidly reverting edits") –GodBlessYou2 (talk) 21:33, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

You can use the "Edit summary search" tool at the bottom of their contribs page, and search for "undid" or "reverted". There's really not a better way to do it, since revisions don't contain any other indication of whether or not they're a revert. Jackmcbarn (talk) 21:44, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. That's very helpful.GodBlessYou2 (talk) 22:02, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
I've checked this tool out for a number of editors who frequently do a total revert of other's edits. For some, what you suggest works fine. Some editors, however, delete the autogenerated comment line, replacing it with some other explanation, or even nothing useful for recognizing it as a revert.
As a diagnostic and evaluation tool, I think it would be helpful to be able to develop metrics on editors who have a tendency to "protect" articles with rapid deletions instead of working to refine articles collaboratively. Being able to identify how frequently editors revert without refinement would be a helpful tool. I'm sure there are plenty of reasons not to add an extra field to the database, but it would be helpful if there was an automated log showing that an edit completely reverted the previous edit. This would be helpful in being able to review the "revert" activity of specific editors for discussions regarding whether or not their pattern of reverts are generally helpful or generally disruptive or may indicate a tendency to WP:OWN an article.—GodBlessYou2 (talk) 22:18, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
If you use the "undo" link on a single edit, the default edit summary is "Undid revision nnnn by [[Special:Contributions/xxxx|xxxx]] ([[User talk:xxxx|talk]])". But if you are viewing a diff of two or more edits, and use the "undo" link, the default edit summary is blank. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:09, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Interesting. A record of a reverting multiple edits should also be logged. Couldn't the database record that the "undo" link was used to initiate the edit and save a tag in the tag field (or some other field) indicating it was initiated as an "undo" when the edit is saved?–GodBlessYou2 (talk) 15:31, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
GodBlessYou2, why would you want to do that? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:36, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Well, Whatamidoing, I think it would be helpful to view a list of reverts made for many reasons, especially in cases where editors may have a pattern of rapidly reverting goodfaith edits rather than practicing WP:PRESERVE methods. It may also be useful in arbitration to be able to more easily see the pattern of reverts. Outside Wikipedia, other wiki's might benefit from being able to see reverts, too.--GodBlessYou2 (talk) 21:38, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Templated reasons in MediaWiki:Ipbreason-dropdown[edit]

Many of the user talk templates were standardized several years ago, including block messages; Wikipedia:Template messages/User talk namespace#Blocks. It appears MediaWiki:Ipbreason-dropdown was missed in the update. I'd like to correct them to match the correct template names, and add an informative note beside each one. For example,
would be changed to
{{uw-spamublock}} <-- Promotional username - Bad faith -->
. Any objections? I'll do a full mockup of all changes in a sandbox if requested. --Geniac (talk) 03:18, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
{{spamusernameblock}} doesn't sound like a warning, and its name as is doesn't need an XML explanation, it's clear. But actually I don't care, if you think your solution is better, make it so. JFTR, <!-- Be..anyone (talk) 16:52, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you mean. spamusernameblock doesn't sounds like a warning because it isn't a warning; it's a block notice. I'm proposing updating block reasons, not any warnings. I've posted to the sandbox subpage MediaWiki:Ipbreason-dropdown/sandbox and I'll wait at least a day or two for discussion. And yeah I forgot the ! in my example here. --Geniac (talk) 01:46, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Don't see the problem as long as you don't break Special:Block (which uses that page as the input to its dropdown menu). Black Kite (talk) 22:37, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, Special:Block uses that page. That's my point; the options in that dropdown menu need updated and some of them need annotated. Another improvement I've made in the sandbox is to group some related block reasons together in a logical order. --Geniac (talk) 01:14, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
uw = "user warning" is arguably misleading for a block, but no big deal. –Be..anyone (talk) 03:35, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
The uw- prefix simply indicates that a user talk template was a part of the standardisation effort of 2007, not that a template is necessarily a warning. That's neither here nor there; those are the current correct template names. --Geniac (talk) 03:45, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Edit notice filter[edit]

Hellow, how can I add an edit notice when some wants to edit an article and imform him not to add a common misconseption. Eg. above the edit box there is an notice saying: wait until the results are published (eg). --C messier (talk) 12:47, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Editnotice#How to request an editnotice if you are not an administrator. --  Gadget850 talk 13:04, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
And if I am (I want to know how add one in el.wikipedia, where I am am admin)? --C messier (talk) 14:20, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Editnotice#Other namespaces for the name of the page you must create. The English Wikipedia has made it easier by creating MediaWiki:Editnotice-0 which links to the edit notice page when you edit an article with an admin account. It may be difficult to convert it for use in el:MediaWiki:Editnotice-0. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:43, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
You can see examples at el:Special:PrefixIndex/Template:Editnotices/Page/. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:46, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
If you are and admin, then you can simply use Wikipedia:Editnotice#Creating editnotices. I don't see the the Greek Wikipedia has the help page, but you could translate it there or just copy the section to your userspace. --  Gadget850 talk 15:03, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Vertical bar in a table?[edit]

I'm trying to build a table that has cells that contain a vertical bar character, |. I tried {{|}} but that gets interpreted as }}. Anyone know the trick? Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:16, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Use the magic word {{!}} (formerly a template). --  Gadget850 talk 13:20, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Using &#124; as a HTML escape also does the trick. However, using {{!}} is a cleaner solution. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 13:27, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict) If you want to display a pipe and not make it part of any syntax then you may have to use {{Pipe}} or &#124;. It looks like that is needed for your intended usage. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:29, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Unenforced non-blank edit summaries[edit]

Hello! While editing lead section of the Data scrubbing article, I've accidentally clicked on the "Save page" button instead of "Show preview" and my edit was saved with no edit summary. The trouble is that I have "Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary" ticked in my preferences and blank edit summaries shouldn't be allowed; that enforcement seems to be working as expected when editing non-lead sections, but fails to protect lead section edits. While editing that lead section, I've used the "edit" link provided by having "Add an [edit] link for the lead section of a page" ticked in my preferences.

Perhaps this bug has something to do with the automated insertion of /* top */ into edit summaries when lead sections are edited, what was introduced about a year ago or so. However, IMHO it should be fixed, if you agree. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 13:20, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

  • Dsimic, I'm not sure if this is what happened in your case here, but if you click save, and notice some text out of place or something and go back to fix it or whatnot I've found it easy to forget I clicked save once. When you click save again, it goes right through because you've already clicked once and technically gotten your blank summary warning. It's actually never prevented saving, it just takes you back to the edit window and doesn't let you know why. It can be very confusing to new users. I'll try to put in a phab ticket today if I can remember. :) — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 14:20, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
@Technical 13: Yeah, I didn't mean that edits with no summaries are completely impossible, instead I had those "first click" warnings in mind. Sorry for not describing it more precisely. However, just to make sure, I've tried to reproduce this bug, and a test edit on a lead section, with no edit summary provided, was saved immediately after clicking on "Save page" with no warnings or anything. So, that's what happened in the first place. :) — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 14:44, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Sooo... is this a bug or a feature? :) — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 11:35, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Nobody finds it important? Technical 13, maybe? — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 12:50, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
It seems like a minor issue and I doubt it can be fixed without an unreasonable effort by the developers to adapt a MediaWiki feature to take a gadget into consideration. "Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing is part of the MediaWiki software which powers thousands of wikis. "Add an [edit] link for the lead section of a page" and everything else at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets is made at the English Wikipedia, in this case MediaWiki:Gadget-edittop.js where /* top */ in the edit summary was added in [2] after discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 123#Editing the lede as opposed to editing the whole article. If you really want to avoid the issue then you could disable the gadget and make a version in your common JavaScript without /* top */. You could probably just copy code from MediaWiki:Gadget-edittop.js and remove a few things near the end without having to know JavaScript. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:20, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
  • I really don't have time right now, but what I would do is modify the gadget to check if the `warn on blank summary` option is activated if ( mw.user.options.get( 'forceeditsummary' ) === 1 ) { ... and then hijack the Save page button to see if ( $( '#wpSummary' ).val() === '/* top */' ) { ... and if it does throw confirm( 'Blank edit summary detected,\npress [OK] to save anyways\nor[Cancel] to go back' ) and then if they click OK $( '#editform' ).submit(); or if they click cancel do $( '#wpSummary' ).focus();. Anyways, I don't currently have access to gadget pages and I'm too busy to work up and test it in a sandbox at this time. Ping me back in a couple three weeks or so if you can't find someone else to do it and I'd be happy to. :) — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 14:52, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter, Technical 13:
Went ahead and had a look at includes/EditPage.php from MediaWiki 1.24.1: basically, MediaWiki sends an MD5 hash of the default edit summary as a value of the form variable wpAutoSummary on edit pages, and compares it when the form is submitted later to see whether a summary was entered (better said, whether it was modified). Gadget-edittop.js jumps into the middle of that and pretty much "breaks" the relationship between the default edit summary and its stored MD5 hash. In more detail, Gadget-edittop.js presets the summary using GET variable summary, what is additionally handled in includes/EditPage.php as a fix for bug #17416: if submitted using &summary=, edit summary is checked only to be non-empty (the default summary is forcibly assumed to be empty) – that's why /* top */ is accepted.
Thus, Gadget-edittop.js should instead set the summary by modifying wpSummary form varible upon the initial loading of edit pages, and should also initially set the wpAutoSummary to the value of md5('/* top */'). That should correct this issue, by establishing the same relationship as if the setting of a default edit summary was performed by MediaWiki. Would something like that be doable in Gadget-edittop.js? — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 15:01, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Okay, so then Phab:T19416 apparently isn't fixed or was rebroken is what you are saying? MrBlueSky, since you're the one that marked this as resolved, maybe you or Happy-melon (bug author?) can help clarify there. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 19:03, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Well, that's what the code in MediaWiki 1.24.1 does (see lines 2428–2433 in includes/EditPage.php). If that behavior is changed, then it seems that Gadget-edittop.js should be working as expected with no modifications. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 20:04, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Phab:T19416 asks to not require a different edit summary when &summary= is set. MrBlueSky (talk) 21:24, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Hm, the whole Phab:T19416 is like "well, I like my waffles with xyz syrup" with no real explanation and no analysis on what else could be affected by such changes. Maybe I'm missing something, but in a request like this it would be important to state where pre-specified summaries shouldn't be validated to be different when a page is submitted; as-is, IMHO it doesn't look like it's about a bug or specific misbehavior. — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 21:39, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Well, I guess this is one of those WP:DEADHORSEs. :) — Dsimic (talk | contribs) 06:00, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-05[edit]

16:08, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Font-weight or '[edit]

If I'm writing a template, what would be better from technical point of view? Using <span style="font-weight:bold;">{{{1|}}}</span> or '''{{{1|}}}'''? I'm not talking about this kind of problem (an empty {{{1|}}}, which if using the ''' results in '), but generally, using span/''' is better, because ... ? --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 16:43, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

For now wiki markup is better, because it could be rendered differently, e.g., for mobile devices not supporting CSS. –Be..anyone (talk) 17:02, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
That is a stretch. I would prefer CSS because it prevents reversing the bold wiki markup, ie. when text is already bold, it stays bold. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 17:21, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Unless purely decorative, <em> or <strong> is at least better than span, because they are semantic HTML elements. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 22:20, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
<strong> is a good idea, even screen readers and text browsers should grok this. –Be..anyone (talk) 02:31, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, the strong element "represents strong importance, seriousness, or urgency for its contents", whereas the b element "represents a span of text to which attention is being drawn for utilitarian purposes without conveying any extra importance and with no implication of an alternate voice or mood". The first is semantic; the second is merely presentational. As for the span element, it "doesn't mean anything on its own", and relies on CSS styling to achieve a change of appearance, but cannot give a semantic meaning. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:10, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

XTools moved to Labs?[edit]

For those of us who still have User:Hedonil/common.js in our script .js, clicking on "See Full statistics" at the top of any article now flips to this: "301 Moved Permanently This tool has moved to a new location. You will be redirected to shortly."

And then it hangs in a loop forever and never really redirects to anything.

However, I do notice that Labs has all the XTools listed there. The problem is that the redirect doesn't really redirect. Can anyone please either correct that, or supply a new script to substitute for Hedonil's old one. Thanks. — Maile (talk) 00:10, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

  • That's because the maintainers agreed that we should segregate the /ec and /articleinfo tools into there own webservice to improve overall stability since they were the top two most likely culprits for locking the whole thing up. If it is getting stuck there, then articleinfo itself is locked up and you just need to ping one of the maintainers (Cyberpower678, Technical 13 and MusikAnimal) and one of us will restart it (I just restarted it now, FTR). :) — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 00:32, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
  • This also means we found the tool causing xTools' entire instability.—cyberpowerChat:Online 00:37, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, both of you. It is indeed getting stuck at Labs, because when I try to open the Page History tool directly from Labs, that's the one that hangs. Thank you for trying to restart it, but it still does not seem to be working. Still getting that message, either from the article or directly at Labs. — Maile (talk) 00:42, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Technical 13, Mozilla, Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:35.0, 5.0, Gecko 20100101, Firefox 35.0. OK, its really strange. As of this morning, progress. After I get the above message, it stalls a few seconds and then, the full page read out that always used to show. However...when I scroll down that to "Page views", the only thing there is a "bla" link. I click on that, and I get "Again something is messed up after Tool Labs database maintenance Sorry for that!No db-connection-" with an image that resembles a test pattern. So, therein, we are back to the original problem that has existed since Hedonil stopped editing. What happened to the daily page views? — Maile (talk) 13:31, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
    I'm pestering Coren to give me access to that tool to restore functionality. I pestered him today, but nothing.—cyberpowerChat:Online 00:14, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
    Today's part of "Tech Days" for the WMF dev staff, so he may be busy with event-related things right now. Things should mostly be back to normal by next week. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:08, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Navigation popups style change[edit]

This is to let everyone know that I have fulfilled the edit request at Wikipedia talk:Tools/Navigation popups#Style enhancements similar to Hovercards, which brings the style of navigation popups in line with that of Hovercards. The actual edit was made to the page MediaWiki:Gadget-navpop.css. If anyone would like the style tweaked, or the change reverted altogether, please voice your opinion at the edit request discussion. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 05:28, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

I've reverted, seeing as the first couple of reactions weren't positive. If others could join the discussion about whether/how to tweak the styling, it would be appreciated. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 05:43, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Watchlist changes curtailed[edit]

This morninng I logged on to find my watchlist's list of changes severely shortened. It is only displaying changes as far back as ca. 11:00 pm last night (about 12 hours ago). I checked my preferences and they are unchanged, I should be seeing many more days' worth. Is this a know issue or something to report? — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 10:27, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

To confirm, the "Show last" period displayed is stuck on "12 hours". When I click on a different value, the script seems to run but the setting sticks at 12 hours. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 16:04, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
"Works for me" isn't a very helpful response, even though it's true. Have you tried all the usual things, like WP:BYPASS? What happens if you go to the full URL: ? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:43, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for the suggestions. Hving hit the probem with Chromium on Linux, I am now on my Andriod tablet and I can confirm that the probem perists. I tried the direct url for 30 days and that just resets the dispay to 12 hours as well. Seems to be some sort of corruption of my Wikipedia account settings? — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 21:32, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
@Steelpillow: How many pages are on your watchlist? There used to be a threshold (which was once 1,000 pages) beyond which a user's watchlist would only display the last twelve hours of changes – I'm not sure if this is still the case. Also, how many changes are displayed on your watchlist? That could also have something to do with it. Graham87 06:03, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Good thoughts. However the number of pages was 351, and I just now trimmed it to 343 and the problem persists. The last few weeks it has been above 343 and the list of changes has been displaying fine. The number of changes displayed is whatever were made in the last 12 hours: there is a user setting above the list for "Show last 1 | 2 | 6 | 12 hours |1 | 3 | 7 | 30 days" and whichever I select it just reverts to 12 hours selected. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 07:11, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
What happens when you click Does the url continue to say days=3? Post the line of form "Below are the last $1 changes in the last $2 hours". What is the first two fields at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist, and is "Expand watchlist to show all changes, not just the most recent" enabled? PrimeHunter (talk) 11:19, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
the url remains correct but the displayed list of changes does not match it. First two fields are: Days to show in Watchlist 5, Maximum number of changes... 250
@Graham87: Any threshold that exists is plenty more than 1,000 pages, since my watchlist is now 19,736 pages, and it will show me right back to 13:21, 29 December 2014 - a genuine 30 days. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:28, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Solved, thanks to PrimeHunter (talk · contribs). Maximum number of changes to show in expanded watchlist was 250. I recently added WP:ANI and that's when the problem kicked off - it ate all my allowance. Raising it to 1000 has solved the problem. All the 12 hr stuff seems like it must have been coincidence, as I was judging the duration set by the list that appeared. Many thanks to all who chipped in. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 16:16, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

@Steelpillow: If you set it to zero, that's treated as "no limit on count", and the only limit that then applies is the time period. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:33, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Cool, I'll do that. I keep forgetting MediaWiki is coded by people who are doing what they want. :) — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 21:19, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Edit request references[edit]

Is there anything that can be done to clean up the references at the bottom of a talk page generated by edit requests example, this can be highly confusing if you don't know why they're there ? Mlpearc (open channel) 19:09, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

@Mlpearc: Yes --Redrose64 (talk) 19:17, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Thank you (quick response also :P ) Now I have a follow up, is there a way to have {{edit semi-protected}} and similar templates, place that template if it's needed and not present ? Mlpearc (open channel) 19:27, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
It's nothing to do with {{edit semi-protected}} (or similar). The problem occurs when somebody uses <ref>...</ref> on a page that has no <references /> {{reflist}} {{reflist-talk}} or similar on the page at any point after the last <ref>...</ref> that is on the page. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:55, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
{{ec}}Thank you again,Redrose64. @Technical 13: Yes I do use that script and your suggestion is basically what I was asking (Sorry I didn't realize about the <ref> tags). Mlpearc (open channel) 20:22, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
@Technical 13: It is nothing to do with {{Edit protected}}, either. The automatic reflist was showing at the bottom of the page, in the "Reliability of Popjustice" section, which has no {{Edit protected}}. I placed a {{reflist-talk}} in the "Genres" section, because that is the only section containing <ref>...</ref>; it also has no {{Edit protected}}. The section between them, "Semi-protected edit request on 25 January 2015", does have a {{edit semi-protected}}, but that is irrelevant because that is neither the section with refs, nor the section where the refs were showing. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:18, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
I guess I got things confused here, Sorry. I only mentioned {{edit semi-protected}} cuz that's when editors usually add the references to the page. Not because I thought the template was causing the issue. Mlpearc (open channel) 20:28, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Redrose64, something was misunderstood here. I read the OP as is there a way that {{Reflist-talk}} can be added to the various {{Edit protected}} templates so that if there are references in the section below that, the reflist will show up. My answer to that interpretation is no, putting the call to list the references in the template above the references will not work in that way. My response had nothing specifically to do with the templates used. I hope this clarifies what I was saying, although it seems that Mlpearc understood what I was saying. :) — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 20:58, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Mlpearc said "the references at the bottom of a talk page" and gave a link, I followed that link, looked for the references, and found them exactly where Mlpearc had said they were (at the bottom). I also noticed also that they were not in a section that bore an edit request, and regardless of that, I cleaned up these refs as requested. The link that I gave in my first post shows exactly how I did that. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:27, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
In my "Example" link, I wanted to show that there's no separation between the last section and the reference links. (also the article has nothing to do with the issue, just the example I choose). Mlpearc (open channel) 21:39, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
It's not practical to automatically add a reflist, since it doesn't work if it's above the references, and there's nowhere suitable to add it below them. Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:01, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

502 Bad Gateway[edit]

About five minutes ago I got the message "502 Bad Gateway". Does this indicate that my connectivity was lost due to a temporary condition? Robert McClenon (talk) 19:17, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

I wasn't running a bot. Does the reboot of lab instances affect connections of regular editors to the servers? Robert McClenon (talk) 22:27, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
  • It affects all bots and tools that are hosted on labs. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 23:22, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Preventing user talk pages from being moved[edit]

It often happens that a new user writes an article in his main user page and then moves it to the mainspace, taking his user talk page with it. Sometimes the redirect at the original talk page gets over-written with new messages, and the confusion becomes difficult to sort out. Would it be possible to arrange that main user talk pages do not, by default, move with the user page, but can only be moved by an admin? JohnCD (talk) 20:31, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

When you move a page, there is always an option (checked by default) to move the associated talk page. If you move the talk page by mistake, one can tag the redirect page with {{db-a7}} and an admin will delete it. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 20:51, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, but the sort of inexperience newbie I am talking about doesn't understand that, and as the default is checked, his user talk page goes off into the mainspace with his article and probably gets deleted with it. JohnCD (talk) 21:24, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Help Needed Copying a Template to Another Wiki[edit]

I asked here if I could borrow the 'In5' template and copy it to another wiki, but nobody's responded there yet. I would just copy the page's wikitext to a page with the same name on the other wiki (or could I just use template transclusion?) but the 'In5' template delegates the work that it does to a Lua module. How can I copy it, or do I even need to?
— RandomDSdevel (talk) 22:38, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Do you have admin rights on the other wiki? If so, you should be able to use Special:Import. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:03, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I actually don't have administrative rights over there. I am, however, on good terms with one of that site's admins, so it couldn't hurt just to ask him if he might do it for me!
— RandomDSdevel (talk) 20:29, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
You cannot transclude a template from another wiki. Special:Version versus shows no Lua or Scribunto at the latter so you cannot use the current version of Template:In5. The page history [7] shows non-Lua versions before 2013. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:02, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Don't panic[edit]

To deploy a patch for an urgent security vulnerability, the operations team at the Wikimedia Foundation are rolling out restarts of all servers. If something is down, from the wiki to labs to thumbnail renders/image scalers to whatever, never fear! they shall be back up very shortly. If the outage of something lasts for a really long time, do let me know. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 23:57, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

@Keegan (WMF): - AFD Stats on Labs has been dead since the restart. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:58, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, it looks like it's working again. Labs was being fussy. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 19:35, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

What's going on with this page?[edit]

Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex - Solid State Society appears to be suffering from every script error imaginable, and I don't see the source---it appears to be an internal scripts issue. Perhaps this is related to the post above, but on the off chance that it isn't, can someone take a look and determine what's happening? Loading previous revisions seems to restore the page to working order for me.

Here is what I am seeing: [8]. ResMar 14:37, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

I saw the same thing. All errors disappeared after a simple purge though. SiBr4 (talk) 14:46, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Well, whatever it was it's gone now. ResMar 02:48, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Bad page names[edit]

Https:// Wyatt Family (American Guns), a redirect, is up for deletion. Attempts to link to it using wiki syntax render, brokenly, as [Wyatt Family (American Guns)], which is actually a link to Draft:The. Should we have an edit filter to prevent such pages from being created? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:34, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Use the entity &#x3a; instead of the first colon: Https:// Wyatt Family (American Guns). --Redrose64 (talk) 18:48, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
URL-like page titles are already forbidden by means of the title blacklist. However, there have recently been some bugs that caused non-admin/-TE users to be able to create blacklisted pages. See this archived thread. SiBr4 (talk) 19:01, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
@SiBr4:, sure enough, the title that was deleted matches a blacklist entry. Yeah, that MediaWiki software issue was a bit annoying; glad it's fixed now. Steel1943 (talk) 19:08, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Andy Mabbett, a better venue to bring this concern up would probably be MediaWiki talk:Titleblacklist. (I was going to suggest that to you in the RFD discussion, but the discussion was closed before I had a chance. Someone who watches that page may have an idea how to add it to the title creation blacklist, but unfortunately, I personally am not sure what syntax would have to be added to the list to accomplish the task you are asking ... which I agree needs to be done somehow.) Steel1943 (talk) 19:06, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
(Never mind on that; looks like the deleted title already matches a blacklist entry, and was probably created as a result if the software issue that SiBr4 referenced above.) Steel1943 (talk) 19:11, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Find red links[edit]

Hello. Is there a way to find all red links that are in all the articles of a certain category? Xaris333 (talk) 21:28, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

There is in AWB: make a list of pages in the category, save the list, convert it to a pipe-separated list, and make a new list using "Links on page (only redlinks)" for those pages. If you don't use AWB, I could make the list for you if you gave the category name. SiBr4 (talk) 21:41, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
User:SiBr4 thank you! I did it! Xaris333 (talk) 22:13, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks from me, too, as I didn't know I could provide a piped list of pages for that purpose, and I've been using AWB since last summer. Stevie is the man! TalkWork 15:10, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Stats broken?[edit]

I've just noticed that appears to be broken as It failed to record any record for this article yesterday. Is there an issue as WikiViewStats is down too? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 21:59, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

The C of E, It's just that one article, I think. I see stats for all my articles for Jan 27. Here's the Main_Page stats. — Maile (talk) 20:31, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


I am a fairly new editor, but am having some difficulty with infoboxes. If for example, a person is say both Native American leader and a politician, Harry J. W. Belvin it does not appear that the boxes can be combined, thus, as I did there, does one have to use 2 boxes? Or is there a way to combine the information?

On several articles, though I have completed the tribal leadership position and language, that information does not actually show in the infobox. It may or may not be a critical piece of information to a programmer but for example in the case of Bill Osceola and Billy Osceola their information is so similar that ANY identifying characteristics that help one to determine which is the correct one may be critical. They did not hold the same tribal office, nor did they speak the same native tongue, but that information does not show in the infobox, though it was completed. Can these become visible fields?

Thank you for your assistance. SusunW (talk) 23:08, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

I've echoed part of your question here: Template_talk:Infobox_Native_American_leader#Parameters_not_showing_up_in_Infobox ... I note that for language the template is wanting an ISO code and not a link to the language artice page, so for Bill Osceola that would be native_name_lang = mik ... and the infobox seems to use the "mik" to alert your browser that the nickname is in that language ... your browser yawns and ignores the info being thrown at it. I've not figured out what, if anything, happens to the known_for parameter info. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:34, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
@Tagishsimon: Thanks, I think. LOL. I have no earthly idea what an ISO code is, nor a how one figures out what one is. Programming is pretty much unintelligible to me, as a researcher. Can you tell me in simple language for a writer what that means and how one determines what it is? I think, that it doesn't matter if one knows the secret "code" or not as someone added the box to Minnie Evans (Potawatomi leader) and it still isn't visible. I admit freely that programming is way over my head, don't remotely understand it. SusunW (talk) 04:00, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
@Montanabw: totally confused. Andy responded at the link above on template talk, still have no clue what any of it means. Is he saying it won't show up even if you fill it out? I am wayyyyyy too old to learn so many new tricks. ;) SusunW (talk) 04:13, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

You're not intimately familiar with ISO 639-3 Susun? I'm shocked!. From the top. You quite reasonably want to be able to specify a language and a known_for sentence, so they'll appear in the infobox. I'm hoping that Andy, or someone else, will look at that in a short while. The ISO code for Mikasuki language is to be found at the bottom of the infobox on the Mikasuki language page - it's mik. But be clear: the native_name_lang parameter, into which you entered Mikasuki language, is not designed to display a language in the infobox, but instead to specify the language of the native_name of the individual, if such has been added to the infobox (and in a way - ISO codes - useful to browsers and the wider semantic web, but of no use to the human eye). You should only need to hunt for ISO codes if you add native_names and want to do your best for posterity by specifying the language of the native name in a machine-readable format. We - people on wikipedia who understands templates better than I - need to be responsive to your requirement to get a human readable "language" parameter, and a working "known_for" parameter. And if this comes to pass, then we get you to where you perhaps ought to be - able to use Mikasuki language rather than "mik". (There's also the open which infobox to use / should multiple infoboxen be used query yet to be answered.) hth. --Tagishsimon (talk) 04:34, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

@Tagishsimon: You have made my night. I can hardly breathe from laughing so hard. I told Montanabw earlier that it would be an interesting conversation, but that there was a real possibly no communication would occur due to the language barrier ;) and here I am learning that humor is universal. While I (think I do) understand that the language parameter is meant to specify the correct spelling of the native name, from a writer's standpoint, I will have verified that with multiple sources. (In the case of Minnie, I verified it with 3 sources before I determined the 2nd syllable should be waht rather than what.) We call it preponderance of evidence. Not very scientific, possibly, but the way researchers work -- verifiable and weighted. I would much rather be able to see the mother-tongue if it can be determined, as an identifying biographical figure, than as a formula for determining how to spell their name properly, as, it may important for identification purposes, as previously identified, and how the name is spelled, has quite often changed over time. (My own name, case in point, has varied at numerous points in my lifetime, but I am still me.) SusunW (talk) 05:07, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I find your case for a human readable native langauge field unimpeachable, and I live in hope it'll be implemented. The machine readable code of which we spoke is not to do with spelling/verification, so much as to tell the web browser software that "this next bit's in French" on the off chance the browser wants to display French text in a different font, for instance. In the case of Minnie Evans, it turns up in the code which makes up the page as: <span class="nickname" lang="pot" xml:lang="pot"></span>. Which is nice. Meanwhile, I find no guidance on the question of multiple candidate infoboxes, although I'm still poking about on that question. I triple checked the spelling of your name before committing it to my preceding paragraph ... "verifiable and weighted", I muttered to myself, as I typed... --Tagishsimon (talk) 05:25, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Indeed. Mi cabeza da vueltas. I suspect, that you are way too young to be at the muttering stage yet, so I apologize for reducing you to muttering, though I admit, it is often where I am in muddling through Wikipedia. The infobox is a very complicated tool o.O What if it is a woman, Native leader, politician? Oy vey, we input which box? Thank you for the levity. Nothing is so serious that it cannot be laughed about. SusunW (talk) 06:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
@Tagishsimon, SusunW: It's not a good idea to simply say "ISO code", since there are many different things that are assigned codes by the International Organization for Standardization (ISO). In this context, it's better to say "ISO 639 code", but even that is ambiguous - here, the ISO 639-3 code is what is needed. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:43, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Not so much "display text in a different font" (though that'd be possible), but to set the accent for (for example) text readers for blind users; or to tell translation software what's going on. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:55, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


Please see the template talk page for updates, and continue discussion there (where it will be seen by other interested parties). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:55, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Spoiler: known_for has been fixed by Andy and is showing up on Bill Osceola. And consensus is being sought on the template talk page as to whether or not, and if so how to add a native language parameter to the infobox. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:12, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Thank you all so much. I am amazed at how fast y'all were able to resolve this. Total respect for what you do, to make the articles more reader friendly. SusunW (talk) 19:28, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Embedding Infobox officeholder[edit]

How do we make {{Infobox officeholder}} embeddable within another infobox? I can do that for templates based on {{Infobox}}, but this one isn't. Please discuss at Template talk:Infobox officeholder#Embeddable, or boldly make it so! Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:10, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Should/could this be rewritten to be based on {{Infobox}}? --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:13, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Ideally yes; whether that's possible, I have no idea. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:59, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Japanese and Chinese character forms[edit]

Issues sometimes arise with browsers displaying the wrong form (Chinese or Japanese) of a particular character (e.g. versus ). Typically they seem to default to Chinese, which is inappropriate for Japanese content. Japanese (or Chinese) can be forced using the HTML "lang" parameter or various templates that presumably generate this internally, but it is highly tedious to do this throughout a long article that makes extensive use of such characters. Instead, what is needed is a way to set a default (Chinese or Japanese) for a whole article. Is this currently possible, and, if not, could I place a request for it to be considered as an enhancement? (talk) 21:36, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Can you give an example of each? --  Gadget850 talk 21:38, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Do you mean an example of a character that looks different in the two languages? I gave an example at the start of my post. If they look the same to you then it must be due to some local issue on your machine (e.g. maybe you don't have a Japanese font installed). If you don't mean this then I'm afraid I don't understand what you are asking. (talk) 22:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
For those like me who didn't know the issue, it appears that some Unicode characters are supposed to render differently depending whether they are part of a Chinese or Japanese text. {{lang|zh|直}} and {{lang|ja|直}} contain the same character 直 renders as: and contain the same character 直. The zh and ja version render differently for me. The third unmarked version renders like the Japanese in my Firefox 35.0.1 on Windows Vista. So does all three in the nowiki text. {{lang}} merely adds a "span lang=". I see exactly the same if "span lang=" is made directly. <span lang="zh">直</span> and <span lang="ja">直</span> contain the same character 直 renders as: and contain the same character 直. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
The first samples appear different to me. Please provide examples where you see the problem: what articles? --  Gadget850 talk 22:07, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Hes not saying anywhere is rendering it wrong, hes saying its tedious to have to set the language for every character, and would like to set it once for the whole page. Could a template at the top of the page set a variable that could then be read as a default value for unicode display later in the page? Gaijin42 (talk) 22:09, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
As I understand it, the display is potentially incorrect in any article that does not explicitly set the language (directly or indirectly via a template) every time Japanese or Chinese characters are used. Whether it is actually incorrect depends on what the browser does by default. Note also that most characters render the same. Only a few are different. (talk) 22:38, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
When I read "whole article" then I infer that certain articles have a problem. What articles and what are some of the wrong characters in that article? --  Gadget850 talk 22:45, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I can't remember now, and it doesn't matter. It is a general usability/maintainablity thing. For example, Japanese grammar has masses of Japanese text with no language set. If there any any uses of these dual-form characters (I haven't checked the whole article!) then they would likely display incorrectly. Rather than going through checking every line and applying "lang=", a better solution is clearly to set the language once at the top of the article. (talk) 22:50, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
The lang= attribute is already set at the top of every article, and it is set to lang="en" because this is the English Wikipedia. On the Japanese Wikipedia, pages have lang="ja" set at the top. This code must match the language of the page as a whole: if any part is not in the default language, that part should be marked up as being in that other language (whether by using <span>...</span> <div>...</div> or some other element isn't important), but if that element has (say) the lang="ja" attribute, it cannot enclose any text that is not in Japanese, unless that text is itself marked up using (say) <span lang="en">...</span> for text in English. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:33, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
It couldn't override the main language being English, of course. What would be convenient is a directive "everywhere you find Chinese/Japanese characters, set the language as Japanese (or Chinese)". (talk) 00:12, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Theoretically, you could write a parser function that could set a value like this for the whole page (a little like DEFAULTSORT). However, while it could work on a small subset of pages, I can see inherent problems on getting it to work for all pages in all languages. Even with a language pairing like English and Japanese that use different character sets, it would be difficult for a program to reliably tell which content was English and which was Japanese. For example, 三菱東京UFJ銀行 (Mitsubishi Tokyo UFJ Bank) should be tagged as being Japanese, but I could easily see a program mistakenly tagging the "UFJ" in the middle as being in English. And it only gets more complicated when you consider language pairings with the same or similar character sets, or pages that contain text in three or more languages. Tagging Japanese text manually may be a pain, but as far as I can see it is the only reliable way of getting it right. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 11:44, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Redrose64 is right: every English Wikipedia page has the language set to English by the MediaWiki software. Where other languages such as Chinese or Japanese are used, we have templates to set the language code. Without specific page examples, I can't see what is going on and I can't help. --  Gadget850 talk 23:53, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I have given you a page example. I believe I have explained the issue clearly enough. I don't know why you can't seem to understand it. (talk) 00:09, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
I see you did point out Japanese grammar. ("I can't remember now, and it doesn't matter." made me skip over the example). All of the Japanese text should be enclosed in {{lang-ja}} for proper language support. As PrimeHunter pointed out, the characters render differently when different language templates are used or not used. We have a series of templates for language support. --  Gadget850 talk 00:41, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
In both Chinese and Japanese 直 (U+76F4) is the same character with the same meaning. The difference is that the glyph in Chinese fonts looks different from the glyph in Japanese fonts. This FAQ from explains how this works, using the example of this character (U+76F4). So if we had a global tag for the whole page, we would be telling the browser that we want one font or the other for characters in the Asian code range. I think that modern browsers already have heuristics to handle this and usually get it right. For example, Japanese grammar and Chinese grammar both display fine for me, even though neither specifies the lang= for all characters. The problems tend to come up when pages contain mixed languages. One example is this page. If you look at the HTML for that page, it handles the 3 different glyph sets in the same way that we do, by wrapping the characters in "lang=ja" or "lang=zh-Hant" spans. We can always do the same thing on Wikipedia if the characters are not displaying properly. – Margin1522 (talk) 06:24, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Help needed with recursive template[edit]

I wrote a template which takes as its single unnamed parameter either a year or the word 'current'. In the latter case it determines from wikidata what the current year is, then calls itself with that value.

Documentation tells me recursion is fine for one level. However I got a recursion error straight away. Then I tried using safesubst: which seemed to work, but only later did I see that it did a regular substitution. Currently the only valid years for input are 2007 and 2010, but at the next census-like point there will be a later year, which I want 'current' to reach. That won't happen with substituted code. I know I can break this into two templates, one to determine the current year which is invoked from the other. But I'd like to know whether recursion is allowed or not.

As a supplementary, how does safesubst differ from subst (in words I can understand)? --Roger Camotes (talk) 13:42, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

As far as I know, no recursion is possible in wikicode. So you would have to use a simple ifeq on the main template and move the main code to the subtemplate. I have done this to Template:PH census (feel free to revert) but I'm not sure if the wikidata fetch is working correctly yet — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:18, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
A template may call itself once; a second level of recursion will throw "Template loop detected: Template:Template sandbox" (or whatever the template name is). --Redrose64 (talk) 16:49, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
That's what I thought, but it gave the error on the first recursion. @MSGJ: – that's what I was after. The subst'ed version wasn't even correct.--Roger Camotes (talk) 18:53, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
  • I hope you don't mind, I tucked some of that away in a collapsed section as it was making the page render in a way that was impossible to read. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:17, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
"it determines from wikidata what the current year is, then calls itself with that value." That's a terrible use for recursion, and there's no way to make that work. Either write your code in Lua instead, or use a /core template. Jackmcbarn (talk) 20:36, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
If all that you need is the current year, that's ... er ... {{CURRENTYEAR}} which returns 2015. See H:MW#Other variables by type. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:40, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
"current year" was a confusing description. If "current" is passed then the template pulls the census year from the Wikidata entry for the article. You could just make the test in the switch like this: {{#switch:{{#ifeq:{{{1}}}|current|{{#invoke:Wikidata|getQualifierDateValue|P1082|P585|FETCH_WIKIDATA|y}}|{{{1}}}}}|...}}. A subtemplate also works fine. I agree an attempt at recursion is a bad idea. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:54, 30 January 2015 (UTC)


Let me preface this by saying I am only asking for technical information on the feasibility of this idea. I just want to know if we can do it before opening a discussion of whether we should. Thanks.

So, the actual idea: rollback as a user right is deprecated and instead it becomes an optional gadget like Twinkle that autoconfirmed users can turn on or off for themselves in the "gadgets" tab of their preferences.

Is that possible, and if so can it be done locally or do we need the foundation to get involved? Also, any guesses about the time frame to implement it should it be approved? Beeblebrox (talk) 17:23, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

The simplest way would be to just give rollback rights to all autoconfirmed users, hide the actual links with CSS, then have a gadget to override that and display them. Another way would be to use $wgGroupsAddToSelf, which could allow autoconfirmed users to add themselves to the rollback group. Both would require relatively trivial changes to the site configuration, but no changes to the software itself. Mr.Z-man 17:32, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Just remember we'd still need some way to restrict access to tools like Huggle. Huggle should not be enabled as a gadget. Maybe that can be what the "vandal fighter" right is for =P — MusikAnimal talk 17:38, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
I might also add if we do create a separate right for Huggle and others, that would conflict with the cross-wiki support of those tools, as they look for rollback on other wikis but will have to be updated to look for a different right on enwiki. We'd also need to update STiki, Igloo and probably others as well. The biggest problem, I think, is that the sneakiest of the sneakiest vandals could create an account, wait till they become autoconfirmed, enable the rollback gadget, then use an older version of Huggle to cause massive damage. All I'm saying is we'd need to somehow ensure users can't get access to powerful semi-automated tools without explicitly being granted the permission on a case by case basis (except is STiki where you automatically get access after 1000 mainspace edits). — MusikAnimal talk 20:28, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
A sneaky vandal could already easily use Huggle without being a rollbacker (in theory, they could as an IP). Jackmcbarn (talk) 20:35, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
@Jackmcbarn: Really?! Are the developers aware of this? If it's easy to do we should probably figure out how to fix it! — MusikAnimal talk 23:50, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
@MusikAnimal: Yes, really, and by its nature, it's inherently unfixable. For WP:BEANS reasons, I'm not going to provide details here, but I'll email them to you if you want. Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:55, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
@Jackmcbarn: Understandable. I'm intrigued, do contact me if you do not mind! :) — MusikAnimal talk 23:57, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Since I don't that's WP:BEANS, I'll give some hints here. For those interested, it's possible as 1) It's a wiki 2) All the userright checking is done client-side 3) Huggle can do "software rollback". Zhaofeng Li [talk... contribs...] 00:13, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Talk pages on Android devices.[edit]

I am really confused about talk pages when using Android devices. I am using the wikipedia app, but can't see the normal PC page layout with the talk page tab, except (strangely) on this particular page since I have started a new section by posing this question. Apologies if Im asking a stupid question. In conclusion then, how do I get e.g. Chrome apo or the wikipedia app on Android to display like a PC. 1812ahill (talk) 18:15, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

  • 1812ahill, scroll to the bottom of the page and click the link for "desktop mode". — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 18:32, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
@1812ahill: The Wikipedia app is meant to provide a simpler mobile view of articles. You can get a desktop view on Chrome, however. Visit any article through Chrome and then scroll to the very bottom - you should see a "Desktop" link. Clicking it will make Wikipedia start displaying like they would on a PC. You can switch back to mobile view by scrolling to the bottom again and selected "Mobile view". ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 18:33, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

restore IPA symbols that have been removed from editing window[edit]

The editing window has been revamped, and tone letters have been removed from the IPA (under 'special characters'). Perhaps others as well. Could someone restore them? There are also lots of useless entries, such as ʙ̩: If someone really needs a syllabic bilabial trill (and it's likely that in the entire history of WP no-one ever has), then it can be entered with two keystrokes. — kwami (talk) 22:21, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

See Help:CharInsert. --  Gadget850 talk 22:28, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
@Kwamikagami: presuming you use monobook, i think the problem is in User:Kwamikagami/monobook.js. some time ago, the script loading logic was somewhat changed, and now, if there is an error in your personal scripts, some of the system's gadgets and scripts will not load. your personal monobook script has a problem (it contains a line that was probably meant for your personal css file rather than your personal js file).
the problematic line is .IPA { font-family: 'Gentium', 'Charis SIL', serif; }. my guess is that simply removing this line, will resurrect the functionality you lost. peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 23:16, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Tested: It completely kills CharInsert for me. Documented at Help:CharInsert. The JS page now warns of errors on save. --  Gadget850 talk 23:59, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! That restored CharInsert under the edit window. The one over the edit window is still missing tone in the IPA, but as long as people have access to both, it shouldn't matter. — kwami (talk) 03:13, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Per MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition, the CharInsert gadget depends on the 'user' module. If executing the user module fails (because of incorrect syntax), then the dependency will not be fulfilled, and CharInsert will therefore not be loaded. If this behavior is not desired, you shouldn't depend on the 'user' module. Matma Rex talk 12:42, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia's eMail interface[edit]

Over the past month or two, I have had problems using our eMail interface (on 4 or 5 occasions, most recently on this timestamped day). The messages were either prolonged in delay, or not delivered at all – in every instance, I was not sent a copy of the email either, which my preferences stipulate, should happen. Any ideas? Thank you.--John Cline (talk) 06:59, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

You may be running into the bug described at phab:T66795, if your email provider is Yahoo or one of the others mentioned on that bug page. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:35, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Thank you, this seems to be describing my problem.--John Cline (talk) 10:33, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
  • For those unaware, having an email account with Yahoo!, AOL, Comcast, Hotmail, GMail, or any other email provider that has set their Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (DMARC) policy to p=reject will prevent using Special:EmailUser. Since the MediaWiki software is set up to spoof sending emails with the from address set to pretend it is sending directly from your mail client that has a domain that does not match the sender domain, it causes it to be rejected by mail hosts instead of sending directly from the local domain with the reply to address set as your address. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 13:06, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Slight clarification and have set DMARC policy to p=reject [9] [10]. Others such as and (the new and have a setting of p=none [11] [12] [13]. Yahoo explains their policy here. Some other sites don't publish records. --Mrjulesd (talk) 13:43, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Thank you Technical 13 and Mrjulesd. I am curious, will this situation also affect one's ability to get a password reset sent to the email address? It may seem obvious to the more technically fluent within our midst; but I must ask: what is a good/best manner of mitigation, or is this somehow in our own best interest; whereas instead, I should adopt a mindset of acceptance?--John Cline (talk) 13:55, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
  • John, it shouldn't interfere with the ability to get a password reset because those emails are actually coming from the the domain they say they are coming from. Those emails come from something like and have a sender set as The issue is when we try to send email from one user to another and the emails actually come from but the sender is set to The way to fix this of course, although apparently not as simple as it seems, is to have the email come from, have the sender set to, and have the reply-to set to — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 14:15, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
  • And to be very clear, this isn't broken on Wikipedia's end, some mail provider have decided to block these messages and the complaint technically should be from their customers to them (customer being a VERY loose word here as these are free providers whose actual customers are advertisers, email users are their product). I agree with T13 above that we could band-aid our system and the primary arguments against it all seem to be along the line of "sending a message to these providers that they shouldn't do this" - however I think the chance the providers will actually care about out message is slim to none. @Technical 13:, I haven't followed this very closely, but if this is enwiki specific any reason an RFC to change this behavior would be rejected by the foundation? — xaosflux Talk 14:52, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
  • xaosflux, it's not enwp specific. It affects all MediaWiki software customers. That said, I still think that we should hold an RfC on whether or not we should formally complain to the foundation as a community that is a customer. The issue I have with calling it a bandaid to fix something that email providers shouldn't do is that more and more email providers are doing it. Where is the threshold when the foundation accepts this is forward progress and will be the accepted norm? This is a question I can not answer and would love to hear feedback from the foundation on. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 15:05, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Technical 13 I won't drop the bandaid calling :) , but do think we should change this configuration. I'm missing the why this has to be a production process change for everyone -- even if it is a software change-should be able to be parameterized per project, no? — xaosflux Talk 15:10, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

External link icons[edit]

Different icons for e.g. https:// (see File:External link icons in Vector.png) have been withdrawn, see bugzilla:56604.

The page Help:External link icons needs updating. Hoping someone here can be bothered. – Fayenatic London 15:01, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Phabricator adds 2000 to bugzilla numbers so you mean bugzilla:54604 = phab:T56604. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:17, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank link on Recent Changes pages[edit]

It would be convenient if there was a Thank link on Recent Changes pages. I would suggest this as an update to the software, or barring that, if there's a user script that adds it, I would use that. I use RC pages a lot for patrolling changes, and having a Thank link there would reduce steps I take to thank other users. Stevie is the man! TalkWork 15:05, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Urbane Israel[edit]


There is a title on the Template:Largest cities of Israel that currently reads: Largest cities or towns of Israel which I would like to read Largest urban areas of Israel or Largest urban localities of Israel as per source material here. Help would be appreciated. thanks. GregKaye 15:40, 31 January 2015 (UTC)