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USAir Flight 405[edit]

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This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because it was recently promoted to GA status, but whilst it passed with flying colours, the reviewer didn't leave any comments for what could be improved, and so I'd like to know what more I need to do before I go for FA.

Thanks in advance, WackyWace you talkin' to me? 13:15, 14 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Music Sorter Overall I have found the cheatsheet from Ealdgyth to be very useful when writing for GA status.

General comments

  • Many of the sentences in each paragraph are a bit longer than would be considered simple grammar and should be shortened.
I think I've sorted this now. If anyone finds any more sentences that need shortening, please don't hesitate to mention them. WackyWace you talkin' to me? 17:48, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article covers an American airline company that crashed in an American city. The NTSB document highly sourced throughout the article uses the American English spelling of airplane vs the British English spelling of aeroplane. The WP:ENGVAR section of the style guide recommends that quotations should use the national language of the reference and the section MOS:TIES should use the language of the country in which the article is based.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 10:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • All indented quotations should be using quotation marks at the beginning and end.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 10:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very nice use of images spread throughout the article.

Intro

  • Nice use of the Infobox; appears to be complete and detailed.
  • The first sentence is a bit longer than is typical. Consider breaking it into two sentences.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 13:06, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • When entering a full date use a comma both before and after the year as in "On June 14, 1982, the plane went down."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 13:06, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • If the intro sentence is not completely rewritten the current passage "...flying the route crashed in poor weather..." needs a comma between route and crashed.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 13:06, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Avoid beginning a sentence with a number unless you write it out as in "Twenty-seven of the 51 people..." Alternatively you can rewrite the sentence as in "Of the 51 people onboard, 27 of them, including the captain..."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 13:11, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overall there are a wonderful number of inline citations. The first paragraph lists five, but the next two paragraphs in the intro do not list any. Typically a GA (or at least an FA) will include a citation for each statistic, quotation, disputable note, or paragraph should have a citation. It is acceptable to include the citation(s) either in the middle of the sentence next to the statement being supported, or grouped together at the end of the paragraph. Although in the case of five citations you may want to consider moving them across the three paragraphs in the intro where appropriate. In general more than three lumped at the end of the paragraph becomes an eyesore.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:14, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Look at paragraph two and review the MOS:SERIAL entry on when to use commas before the and when using a serial list to help improve the readability. Also consider rewriting it to separate the two serial lists. In a single sentence it is a bit wordy and hard to follow.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 15:57, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the third paragraph the word whilst is typically a British English word and in the US is very rare and sometimes considered pompus. If the article was about a British flight or crashed in a country speaking predominately British English you would be more inclined to use it. However the word while would be appropriate in both country's English.
 Done - Sorry for all the British words, only as I live and have always lived in Britain, British words are second nature. WackyWace you talkin' to me? 13:11, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The last sentence of paragraph 2 includes a comment about runway 13, but in the summary that information does not seem to add any significance. It is better to just leave it only in the detailed coverage of the accident.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:00, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first sentence of the third paragraph is also a run-on sentence.
I've done my best to sort that out, but I know what you mean. I'm just not entirely sure how I would go about fixing it. WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:03, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Flight history

  • Overall very well done. Nice use of citations for each paragraph.
  • The second paragraph uses captain twice in short succession. One way to avoid this would be to word it "The 44-year old commander was Captain Wallace J Majure II..."
 Done, although with 'pilot' rather than 'commander'. WackyWace you talkin' to me? 13:14, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The sentence "He was hired as an F28 first officer by Piedmont Airlines in 1985. After serving as a first officer and then a captain on a Boeing 737, he was reassigned during company cutbacks to an F28 pilot" is somewhat as to the timeline. Did you mean "He was hired as an F28 first officer by Piedmont Airlines in 1985. After serving as an F28 first officer and later as a captain on a Boeing 737, he was reassigned as an F28 captain due to company cutbacks."
 Done - I've attempted to clarify this, so I hope it reads better now. WackyWace you talkin' to me? 13:18, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The third paragraph might be using a few redundant words in "...company records indicate that he had accumulated an approximate total of 4,507 flying hours..." Consider simplifying to "...company records indicate he had accumulated approximately 4,507 flying hours..."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 13:21, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Accident

  • Overall nice use of inline citations.
  • The following sentence uses a quote to continue to subject of the sentence, but the wording is awkward and needs to be reworded. "Trump Shuttle flight 1541, a Boeing 727 which had landed around the time flight 405 was taxiing had "picked up a lot of snow quickly during my post-landing walkaround, but by the finish it seemed to be more rain," the second officer said."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 15:29, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The same sentence uses a quote but does not have a citation inside or at the end of the paragraph.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 15:29, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the sentence "Just under five seconds later, the stick shaker activated and the crew received six stall warnings, before the jet began banking to the left, leaving the runway." the ending of the sentence should join the beginning as "Just under five seconds after leaving the runway, the stick shaker activated and the crew received six stall warnings, before the jet began banking to the left."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 15:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The sentence "Passengers who sustained minor injuries and injuries that were not life threatening most likely drowned as a result of confusion, disorientation or entrapment." leads me to believe all passengers with minor injuries or non-life threatening injuries drowned with this wording. Do you mean to say "Confusion, disorientation, or entrapment most likely caused the drowning of passengers who otherwise sustained only sustained minor injuries and injuries that were not life threatening."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 15:33, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Investigation

  • The two paragraphs would work better as a single paragraph with sentence "The inquiry lasted just under one year." moved to the end of the new paragraph.
I haven't done exactly that, but I've re-worded it to make it clearer, by putting the section about the loss of lift in the section about the buildup of ice, two things which are linked very tightly together. WackyWace you talkin' to me? 15:40, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Aftermath

  • While not required for GA level, there are a number of paragraph making specific quotations and comments that require a citation. I assume they came from one of the sources already used, but you just did not add the citation link.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:26, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dryden report allegations

  • "The crash was featured on National Geographic Channel in an episode..."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 15:40, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

USAir

  • This section does not specifically say the re-branding efforts were a direct result of the accident or not. If it was it should be stated (with appropriate source citation) or it should be a separate section not related to the "aftermath" of the event.
While I have added a sentence specifially stating that the rebranding effort was not a direct result of the accident, I don't think the section deserves its own level 2 section. I put that section there thinking it would swiftly be removed for being trivial, but I thought to the average reader it rounded off and concluded the article, if you know what I mean. WackyWace you talkin' to me? 15:48, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

References

  • All Web citations should include accessdate=
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 17:52, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The links to the NTSB report should use the Journal citation template to better match the other references cited. They need to include the title of the document and use the page= entry to show the page number (which is already nicely embedded into the link).
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 17:52, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Conclusion

  • There was a huge effort by you last month to expand this article and it shows. Great work. I would say with the above changes it would more accurately reflect the GA status possibly prematurely passed onto this article.

I hope this helps you. If you have any comments back to me I may not see them here unless you post a comment on my talk page asking me to look here. Keep up the good work. § Music Sorter § (talk) 08:57, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Follow-up review Nicely executed changes. My congratulations on getting this done quickly and so completely. These additional comments follow from my deeper review after some of the sentences were shortened, and from a few things I may have overlooked. Most of the other comments might be considered FA criteria, so you are welcome to ignore them. However I believe you desire moving to an FA review at some point and I think these comments may help it in my opinion.

Intro

  • When entering a City-name, State-name, there should always be a comma after both the city and state names as in this sentence (except if it is the end of the sentence.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 10:23, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • For the sentence "The airplane managed to leave the ground, however it failed to gain lift and managed to get several meters off the ground." consider rewording it because the first and last part of the sentence are somewhat redundant in idea.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 10:26, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • In reference to paragraphs 2 and 3 here, I personally believe that the spirit of WP is to always cite references in every paragraph even if it is only at the end of the paragraph. Some FAs have appeared without a reference on at least the end of every paragraph, but IMHO I don't think that is appropriate except when the sentence or paragraphs are indisputable or somehow clearly referenced in some other way in the body of the paragraph. In your paragraphs this is the intro that summarizes the article below that are very well referenced, so it could be argued that they are referenced by the time the article is completely read.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 17:48, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I believe the comma in the following sentence should be removed "The NTSB concluded that the flight crew were unaware of the amount of ice that had built up, after the jet was delayed by heavy traffic taxiing to the runway."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 10:28, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I recommend that "While the jet encountered a delay of up to 35 minutes, they found that the deicing fluid that was being used at the airport, and across the United States by the majority of commercial airlines, was effective for only fifteen minutes." be modified as "While the jet encountered a delay of up to 35 minutes, they found that the deicing fluid that was being used at the airport, and the majority of commercial airlines across the United States, was effective for only fifteen minutes."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 10:28, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The final sentence can be further simplified as "The accident led to a number of studies into ice's effect on aircraft, and several recommendations into prevention techniques."
 Not done Whilst admittedly that would simplify it, I don't think an apostrophe looks particularly pleasing in that situation. To me, it almost looks like an "isn't" or a "wouldn't" in a Wikipedia article. WackyWace you talkin' to me? 10:32, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
On the point that it did not look pleasing you may be right. After I read it again it felt clumsy in that situation. On your comment related to the contractions isn't and wouldn't, those are different situations. Contractions are not typically used in formal writing. On the other hand, our use of ice's is possessive and is perfectly acceptable as stated here Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Possessives § Music Sorter § (talk) 05:44, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I completely understand what you mean, but while "Mary's cat" implies that Mary owns the cat, I don't think that ice really owns the effect it has on an aircraft. Regards, WackyWace you talkin' to me? 06:22, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just to give you an example of a possessive use with a noun like ice, check out this article with two references, (1) ice's effects, and (2) ice's thickness. "http://thedartmouth.com/2010/03/02/news/arctic". {{cite web}}: External link in |title= (help) But remember I don't think we should change it. § Music Sorter § (talk) 09:00, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Flight history

  • I believe the sentence "The Fokker 28 is a two-engine, medium-range jet..." should use "F28".
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 12:51, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The sentence "The jet involved in the accident was registered in the United States as N458US." starts with the same words as the first sentence. Consider using "This particular jet was registered in the United States as N458US.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 12:51, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Drop the and after the comma in "The 44-year old pilot was Captain Wallace J. Majure II, who was fully qualified to pilot the F28 and four other commercial aircraft, and had accumulated approximately 9,820 total flying hours, of which 2,200 hours were in the F28."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 12:51, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think this sentence is still out of order on the timeline "He was hired as an F28 first officer by Piedmont Airlines in 1985, before being reassigned as a first officer and later a captain on a Boeing 737, he was reassigned as an F28 captain due to company cutbacks." What about "He was originally hired as an F28 first officer by Piedmont Airlines in 1985. Sometime after that he was reassigned as a first officer and later a captain on a Boeing 737, but finally returned to an F28 captain due to company cutbacks."
 Done, but slightly differently to the way you suggested because I think saying "sometime after that" sounds a little vague. WackyWace you talkin' to me? 12:58, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The quotation from the NYT in paragraph two is long and would be easier to follow as an indented quotation as you used later in the article.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 12:58, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Accident

  • Note the comma usage in City, State, as mentioned in the Intro section.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 13:06, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first paragraph uses whilst verses while which I mentioned in the first review in American English would sound rare and sometimes pompus to some people, but it is not incorrectly used.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 13:06, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • This sentence is too long "Following the completion of this process, one of the two deicing trucks delayed the pushback of the jet by around 20 minutes when it experienced mechanical problems in such a position that it prevented the aircraft from taxiing to the runway following the flight crew's return."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 13:06, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the sentence "After the deicing truck was repaired, the pilot requested a second deicing, though the flight crew did not perform a walkaround of their airplane, as USAir procedures did not require them to do so." the final thought "...as USAir procedures did not require them to do so." can be interpreted two ways. Did the pilots chose not to perform the walkaround BECAUSE the procedure did not require it, or did the pilots simply not perform a walkaround and you were noting that it was not required by USAir procedures?
Personally, I found it notable that in a snowstorm, USAir did not require a walkaround of an aircraft, and therefore I noted it in the article. Since the pilot was killed in the crash, we never will know whether he didn't perform the check because of the fact they were far behind schedule, or whether he simply didn't do it because procedure did not require him to do so. However, the final report does imply that the crew should have checked the wings before takeoff, and i thought that an average reader might be intruged at why USAir did not require a walkaround check in poor weather. WackyWace you talkin' to me? 13:16, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
In that case you can change the sentence to "...though the flight crew did not perform a walkaround of their airplane, as and USAir procedures did not require them to do so." This way you are not implying that you know why they did not do the walkaround when you used the word as in that sentence.§ Music Sorter § (talk) 05:44, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 06:25, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • You can simplify "Engine anti-ice was turned on for both of the two engines during taxi." to "Engine anti-ice was turned on for the two engines during taxi."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 13:12, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the third paragraph you mentioned a few times that "The captain announced" some things. The items you listed I have never heard on a plane as a passenger, so I assume the "announcement" was to himself and the co-pilot. In that case I assume it was from the voice flight recorder. If the source makes that statement, or you believe it is clear the source meant that the flight recorder recorded the captain saying these things, then the sentence should reflect that differently such as "The flight recorder captured the captain stating the flaps would remain up during taxi..." and later "The recorder also captured the captain saying they would use standard USAir..."
The NYT article states that the captain did announce to "flap watchers" onboard that they should not be worried if they saw the flaps retracted during takeoff. I've put a reference in to verify this.
  • I see both "US Air" and "USAir" in the article. Confirm if the company uses a space between the words and make the article consistent.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 13:01, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Weather reports for LaGuardia state..." might sound better as "Weather reports for LaGuardia showed..." since generally people make statements and reports show information. In the same sentence the word that is unnecessary.
 Done, but the sentence "weather reports for LaGuardia showed on the night of the accident, all taxiways were coated with a thin covering of snow" does not really make sense, so I've kept the than. WackyWace you talkin' to me? 13:27, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • This sentence is somewhat improper "Nor he or the pilot saw any evidence of contamination on the wing or on the black strip and therefore decided against a third deicing." Consider instead "Neither he nor the pilot..."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 13:28, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • This sentence "The flight crew spent the time taxiing discussing deicing procedures." would flow better as "While taxiing, the flight discussed deicing procedures."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 15:35, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • This sentence is a bit too unclear and I don't understand what it means "The first officer suggested to the pilot that they "this [aircraft], he might keep our wings clear for us." Was he trying to say the exhaust from a jet in front of him would keep their wings clear of ice? If so you can make that statement if the source was clear that was the intent of the quote, but you would put any unspoken words inside [here is where you explain or clarify missing words].
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 15:35, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • You can improve clarity of "The second officer of Trump Shuttle flight 1541, which had landed around the time flight 405 was taxiing said the Boeing 727..." with a comma after taxiing and replacing the Boeing 727 with their Boeing 727.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 15:35, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • You can increase clarity in "The weather had created heavy traffic at LaGuardia..." by adding ground as in "The weather had created heavy ground traffic at LaGuardia..." [italics not intended for the final article]
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 15:42, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Generally you spell out single digit numbers and use roman numerals for double or more digit numbers. Consider this change for "Investigators estimated that the plane took between twenty five and forty five minute..."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 15:42, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Consider in "...vibration, rate of acceleration, ambient noise, and directional control."to replace and with or.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 15:42, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The reverences at the end of "The aircraft struck two visual approach slope indicator posts, touched down again for approximatley 100 feet, before lifting off again and striking an ILS beacon and a water pump house." should be reordered so the one currently numbered 7 comes before the one numbered 22.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 15:42, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove redundant sustained in "Confusion, disorientation, or entrapment most likely caused the drowning of passengers who otherwise sustained only sustained minor injuries and injuries that were not life threatening."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 15:42, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rescue

  • Same comment on whilst.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:18, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Consider shortening or dividing the first sentence in each paragraph.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:18, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • NTSB should be spelled out initially as National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and then you can use NTSB from there on.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:18, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Investigation

  • After defining NTSB in the prior section you can use NTSB on its own here.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:18, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Consider changing "They concluded that, unknown to the crew, ice had collected on the wings, disrupting airflow and reducing lift." to "...wings, which disrupted airflow and reduced lift."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:18, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • That same paragraph really needs a source.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:18, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the sentence that includes "...and the speed brakes were not deployed." may want to drop this comment since a more detailed description of this fact appears in the next few sentences.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:18, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Same comment on whilst. Consider a global search if you decide to change all to while.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:18, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...very very..." should have a comma between the words.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:18, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "F-28" appears differently than in the rest of the article with "F28".
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:18, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Aftermath

  • Commas required as entered in "Dryden, Ontario, after the crew..."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:52, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • You have established a need to follow American English due to the sources and subject of the article, so the rest of the article should use American English for program rather than programme
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:52, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is quite long "The Honourable Virgil P. Moshansky, who investigated the crash in Dryden, appeared in the documentary, alleging that if the recommendations in his report, such as the use of Type II deicing fluid rather than Type I, deicing trucks near the runway rather than at the gate, and that the crew should inspect their wings not only from the cockpit, but also the cabin, had been followed at LaGuardia and other US airports, the accident on USAir flight 405 could have been prevented."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:52, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • As is this one "Following the crash of flight 405, along with American Eagle Flight 4184, an ATR 72 which suffered a catastrophic loss of control after the wings were contaminated with freezing rain in 1994, Air Florida Flight 90, when pilot error lead to ice buildup of the wings, causing the jet to crash into the Potomac river in 1982, and Air Ontario Flight 1363, the FAA began to research methods of improving deicing practices at airports to minimise the number of accidents caused by a buildup of ice."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:52, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Commas needed in "...May 28 and 29, 1992, in Reston, Virginia, for the..."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:52, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Consider changing "At the conference, industry methods were discussed and agreed on actions that should be taken in the long term and short term." to "At the conference, industry methods were discussed and agreed upon for actions that should be taken in the long term and short term."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:52, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Need a comma before but in "They also found that the pilot in command was the ultimate authority for take off decisions, but that..."
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:52, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The section Developments in deicing have two paragraphs with no sources.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:52, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

References

  • There are a number of web entries which do not show the retrieved date.
  • Reference 63 has a typo and is displayed improperly.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:52, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

External links

  • Specific external links are not usually used when the item is already included in the article as with the specific NTSB report on this accident.
 Done WackyWace you talkin' to me? 16:52, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Conclusion Overall excellent article and I would say with these changes it is ready for GA review with not a lot left before a FA status should be attempted. Great work WackyWace. § Music Sorter § (talk) 10:08, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent follow-up to my comments. Great work and thanks for the great improvement to Wikipedia. § Music Sorter § (talk) 05:44, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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