Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests

Wikipedia arbitration About arbitration Arbitration policy Request arbitration Request enforcement Current proceedings Guide to arbitration Noticeboard Committee About the Committee Rules & procedures History / Elections Subcommittees Audit (AUSC) Ban Appeals (BASC) Clerks About the Clerks Clerks' noticeboard Sanctions Discretionary sanctions Active sanctions Records Archive of proceedings Related changes

Dispute resolution Tips for dispute resolution Use etiquette Assume good faith Be civilised in discussions Be open to compromise Ask for editor assistance Negotiation Discuss on talk pages Get a third opinion (⇒) Request comments (⇒) Dispute resolution noticeboard Wikiquette assistance (⇒) Request informal mediation Formal Mediation Request formal mediation Guide to formal mediation Mediation Committee Formal mediation policy Arbitration Request arbitration Arbitration Committee Remedies Administrator assistance Arbitration enforcement Editing restrictions General sanctions

A request for arbitration is the last step of dispute resolution on Wikipedia. The Arbitration Committee considers requests to open new cases and review previous decisions. The entire process is governed by the arbitration policy. For information about requesting arbitration, and how cases are accepted and dealt with, please see guide to arbitration.

Please make your request in the appropriate section: Request a new arbitration case Request clarification of an existing case Request an amendment to an existing case This includes requests to lift sanctions previously imposed Request enforcement of a remedy in an existing case Arbitrator motions Arbitrator-initiated motions, not specific to a current open request

Requests for amendment

Request to amend prior case: Race and intelligence

Initiated by Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) at 21:31, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Case affected 

Race and intelligence arbitration case (t) (ev/ t) (w/ t) (p/ t)

Clauses to which an amendment is requested

1. Mathsci topic-banned by mutual consent

List of users affected by or involved in this amendment

• Ferahgo the Assassin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
• Mathsci (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)
• Captain Occam (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request

[1] [2]

Amendment 1

• That Mathsci is banned from interacting with or mentioning me and Captain Occam anywhere on Wikipedia.

Statement by Ferahgo the Assassin

Despite my having had no interaction with him in many months, Mathsci (talk · contribs) is continuing to bring me up on Wikipedia in inappropriate situations after being asked multiple times by arbitrators to stop. Arbcom has requested that Mathsci drop this issue at least four times:

• [3] February, Roger Davies asked him to leave it to uninvolved editors to bring it up if someone's editing in R&I is a problem.
• [4] April, Risker told him clearly to disengage.
• [5] [6] September, Roger Davies and Cool Hand Luke both told him to disengage. From my understanding, the only reason he wasn't given an interaction ban is because the arbitrators were confident he would follow their advice. [7]
• [8] And finally, two weeks ago he was formally warned by Jclemens to stop bringing up off-wiki evidence against other editors.

But Mathsci has been continuing to do this exact thing the entire time, and in fact it seems like the quantity of examples is steadily increasing. Keep in mind these are only diffs from after the amendment thread in September when he was told by two arbitrators to stop. There are many diffs of this kind of behavior from before September, but those were addressed in the previous amendment thread.

• [9] October: Mathsci inserts himself into a discussion that has nothing to do with him in order to bring me up (including the irrelevant details of my relationship).
• [10] November: Mathsci brings this up again (along with the R&I case) in another discussion that has nothing to do with him in order to attack arbitrator Jclemens.
• [11] [12] [13] November & December: Mathsci attempts to prove Boothello (talk · contribs) is a sock of David.Kane (talk · contribs), based on off-wiki research about where David.Kane lives, another example of Mathsci conducting off-wiki sleuthing about editors connected to R&I.
• [14] December: Mathsci inserts himself into another discussion that doesn't involve him in order to push for sanctions against Occam.
• [15] December: Mathsci again bringing up Occam out of the blue.
• [16] [17] [18] January, the most recent occurrence: This time it was to threaten an editor for what looks like a very brief involvement in editing the human intelligence template. Here Mathsci is making real-life, off-wiki claims about me in an attempt to threaten TrevelyanL85A2 (talk · contribs) as well as me with sanctions, including threatening us "all" with a community ban. (???)

This recent example is the exact thing that Jclemens told Mathsci to stop doing, and here he's done it around two weeks after being told that. Over the past few months, Mathsci has continued to demonstrate an increasing fixation on R&I, myself, Occam, and off-wiki research about editors connected to R&I. I have attempted to make an agreement with Mathsci to stop doing this: that he leaves me alone entirely (and completely stops mentioning me and Occam on Wikipedia), and I'll return the favor. In his last comment on TrevelyanL85A2's talk, he has rejected that request. Unfortunately, I think at this point the only long-term solution here is an official sanction administered by Arbcom that prohibits Mathsci from mentioning me anywhere on Wikipedia. It can be mutual or one-sided at Arbcom's discretion. Although Occam is currently blocked, I think it's important for the interaction ban to cover both of us. Mathsci tends to bring us up both in the same context, and I don't want to leave room for gaming by requesting an interaction ban only for myself.

As an aside, I should point out that last time this happened, Coren suggested the issue go to RFC. However, my current topic ban (as per share policy with Occam's IP) prohibits me from starting an RFC about anything connected to R&I. Additionally, the best outcome from an RFC would be that the community requests Mathsci to drop this issue. If Mathsci won't heed Arbcom's advice multiple times, I don't see what it would accomplish for the community to tell him the same thing.

I think it is important that this issue is finally put to bed. He has been told by Arbcom to drop this four times. I don't think a fifth request would accomplish anything at this point if it is not accompanied by an interaction ban. In September, Cool Hand Luke decided against the requested interaction ban because he was confident Mathsci would follow his instructions to drop the issue. Mathsci has not done so. This seems relevant to the vested contributors issue: Mathsci has made a lot of useful contributions to the encyclopedia, but that should not justify repeated second chances to follow Arbcom's advice every time he ignores it.

Additionally I think that history has shown that this kind of behavior, if left unchecked, can drive experienced contributors away from Wikipedia or provoke them into acting in unacceptable ways. I really don't want this to progress that far in my case: I enjoy contributing my artwork and knowledge to Wikipedia, and Mathsci's behavior regarding me makes me very uncomfortable. Because of the harm behavior like this can do to the project in the long term, I think it's important for Arbcom to stop it before it progresses that far.

New examples

• While this thread is open, Mathsci is currently removing comments by another editor from my user talk. [19] [20] He suspects them of being a sock, but either way I've asked him multiple times to stay off my talk page, and Mathsci should know this is inappropriate. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 15:38, 9 January 2012 (UTC) New example from today: [21] -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 00:38, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
• Mathsci is now attempting to get me blocked at AE while this thread is open. [22] -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 15:21, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Response to arbitrators

Admins at AE have disallowed Occam and myself from participating in RfCs related to the R&I topic area, and also advised us against participating in AE threads related to it. [23] Additionally, when Occam brought this up with Jclemens, he suggested that this issue be raised as an amendment. [24] [25] Even if Arbcom decides that AE or RfC is the best place for this request, I have found that the community is generally not hospitable to my posting anywhere about issues related to R&I. The responses I've received from other involved editors in this thread, and Mathsci's current attempt to get me blocked at AE, are good examples of how the community tends to react to these things. A decision that this issue should be handled by the community instead of Arbcom would only prolong the current conflict, without providing a chance of a resolution. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 16:54, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Update 1/22

Risker's comment makes me a little more hopeful that this thread might finally be receiving some attention from Arbcom. There's one other new issue that I'm hoping Arbcom will resolve: whether editors should be allowed to bring up off-wiki personal information about others in public, rather than sending it privately to Arbcom. Based on my understanding of policy and my discussions on this with Jclemens, I don't think doing this is ok. But in this thread Edjohnston (the admin who usually handles R&I related AE reports) was unconvinced that off-wiki personal information can't be handled in public at AE, and that if Arbcom disagrees they should take some formal action in this amendment thread.

Mathsci's posting of personal information about other editors, and other editors' repeating of it, has been going on for a long time. This almost always involves the same group of editors. For example in my evidence in the original R&I case almost 2 years ago, I mentioned that Mathsci was publicly posting what he'd discovered off-wiki about the details of my relationship with Captain Occam, and that after he posted this it began being repeated by Hipocrite and Aprock. No action has ever been taken against any of the editors who do this, so it's continued unabated since then. Here are a few other examples from the past few months:

• [26] Mathsci's speculation about user:Miradre's off-wiki identity
• [27] This edit summary is oversighted now, but I think Arbcom can see it
• [28] This comment was in response to Miradre's request that Mathsci respect his privacy. The comment wasn't itself an invasion of privacy, but I think Mathsci's response to that request is a good indicator of his attitude.

I don't think it's acceptable that this is continuing to go on without any action, and that at least one admin (Edjohnston) is unconvinced it's a problem at all. In addition to the requested interaction ban, I would appreciate it if Arbcom could clarify that off-wiki information like this can only be sent to Arbcom privately, and also do something about admins' general unwillingness to do anything when it's posted in public. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 03:52, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

@Professor marginalia: You're the only one defending Mathsci here who I think deserves a response. But first I'd like to say something about the people commenting here: this is the exact same group of people who were opposing me and Captain Occam around the time of the original R&I case in 2010. You, Mathsci, Hipocrite, Aprock, Beyond my Ken, Slrubenstein and Enric Naval all belong to this original core group of editors. Arbitrators can verify this with the list of involved parties on the original case page, and these two AN/I threads [29] [30] from April and June 2010. Every person against me here was involved in at least two of these three places (except for Volunteer Marek who got involved more recently). It's been over a year since I interacted with the rest of you, and I find it amazing that you're still showing up to oppose me after all this time.

R&I articles have a problem with sockpuppetry from Mikemikev, everyone knows that. But that doesn't excuse how the rest of you are acting. It's reached the point where every new editor who doesn't immediately ally himself with this core group is assumed to be a sock or meatpuppet, whether there's any evidence for it or not (besides them being new). Yfever is the most recent example. The amount of bad faith that's being assumed about him by you and Hipocrite in this discussion is appalling. Especially since the only evidence I've seen that he's a sock is that he found an old version of that article in Ephery's userspace, even though he could've just found it when FT2 linked to it here. Vecrumba, DGG, and Xxanthippe have all mentioned recently how toxic the editing environment has become because of this atmosphere.

I've looked at some earlier arbitration cases that involved similar issues, and this situation is quite like 2010's climate change case. The conflict that led to that case involved a well-known sockmaster (Scibaby) and an atmosphere of hostility and paranoia where every new user whose viewpoints were vaguely similar to scibaby was assumed to be sock or meat. In that case Arbcom was clear on how they feel about this attitude, and they t-banned several of the editors responsible for it. Some of the principles from that case are very applicable here, especially this and this. But our situation here might be worse, because in the climate change case nobody was conducting off-wiki research and posting their conclusions in public.

It doesn't matter whether you think Mathsci or you have a good reason for doing it. The simple fact is that this is against policy, and Mathsci has been warned by Arbcom to stop it multiple times, most recently just a month ago. As Jclemens said here, nobody should have to answer questions about off-wiki information in public, because outing policy demands that other editors not confirm or deny the accuracy of the information. Yet you and the other members of your group still continue to confront me and TrevelyanL85A2 about this information on-wiki, knowing full well that we shouldn't answer. For you to say there's nothing wrong with doing this doesn't just contradict policy, it contradicts what Arbcom has said about this many times in the past year. -Ferahgo the Assassin (talk) 19:53, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Mathsci

Initial response

Captain Occam was site banned by Risker for one year under ArbCom discretionary sanctions for "having returned to the disruptive behaviour and battlefield mentality that was sanctioned in the Race and intelligence arbitration case." My understanding is that, as far as matters related to WP:ARBR&I are concerned, per WP:SHARE, Ferahgo the Assassin's account is considered to be indistinguishable from that of Captain Occam. It would therefore appear that Captain Occam is continuing exactly the same kind of disruption in WP:ARBR&I related issues for which he has just been site banned. It would also appear that he has had this kind of disruption in mind for some time. [31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40][41] In the circumstances I cannot see how any proposals formulated by Captain Occam can be discussed on wikipedia, no matter who his proxy is or how they seek to justify themselves.

As far as privacy is concerned, both Ferahgo the Assassin and TrevelyanL85A2 have chosen to place external links and personally identifying information on wikipedia and/or commons. However, as Shell Kinney has confirmed and has given me permission to repeat on-wiki, a real life association between their accounts can easily be determined without any of that information (or "sleuthing"). Shell Kinney kept the rest of ArbCom informed about this in 2010 and contacted Captain Occam by email, reporting his response here.

Jclemens' request would be reasonable if Ferahgo the Assassin had not included Captain Occam in her proposed amendment and if Captain Occam did not happen to be site banned for one year. There was an almost identical request in early September 2011 by Captain Occam during which he lobbied Jclemens extensively on his talk page (cf diffs above). Please could other arbitrators clarify how WP:SHARE applies in these extraordinary circumstances, where an editor has been site banned and their partner then appears to be continuing the same old campaign as a proxy.

Continued disruption by proxy

• The amendment page is not a general complaints page for topic-banned editors or proxies to air their grudges. Boothello, a single-purpose account, was recently topic-banned indefinitely at WP:AE. Several editors commented there and I commented about one logged-off edit he had made recently. If he wanted to appeal his ban, he could have done so at the time, but he did not. Nobody has even mentioned him here, so why is he commenting? Do the terms of his topic ban allow him to comment here? Why is he mentioning WP:ARBR&I if it preceded his time as an editor on wikipedia? That case is closed and has no relevance now. The issues concerning proliferating proxies or suspected proxies are new since the case closed. Professor marginalia has given a description of the effect that has had on active editors. Mathsci (talk) 00:44, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
• Ferahgo the Assassin is pulling out all the stops now with a notification on User talk:Yfever,[67] but in what way is he related to Captain Occam or Ferahgo herself? (I requested checkuser to see whether he was another sock of Mimikemikev, just like the problematic editor Rrrrr5 (talk · contribs) = Spencer195 (talk · contribs).) Perhaps Ferahgo could explain why she has not left a similar message on User talk:TrevelyanL85A2. Mathsci (talk) 14:33, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Hipocrite

In the interests of transparency, do you know TrevelyanL85A2 outside of Wikipedia? Hipocrite (talk) 00:53, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Having done just the most rudimentary amount of googling, it is quite clear that Ferahgo the Assassin and TrevelyanL85A2 have a substantial off-wiki relationship, and that off-wiki relationship is in no way related to race and intelligence.

I don't ask my friends to show up at Wikipedia articles/processes to support me. Captain Occam should learn to do the same. I suggest that TrevelyanL85A2 be subject to the same topic ban that his friends are subject to. Hipocrite (talk) 15:43, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

FtA has now stated that some of what I've said is false. I've made two claims - 1. "it is quite clear that Ferahgo the Assassin and TrevelyanL85A2 have a substantial off-wiki relationship." 2. "that off-wiki relationship is in no way related to race and intelligence."

Which claim is false, exactly? Hipocrite (talk) 16:54, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Volunteer Marek

I didn't pay attention to the Abortion case so I don't know anything about that. But what is the relevance of these two statements of FtA's?:

• November & December: Mathsci attempts to prove Boothello (talk · contribs) is a sock of David.Kane (talk · contribs), based on off-wiki research about where David.Kane lives, another example of Mathsci conducting off-wiki sleuthing about editors connected to R&I.

What does this have to do with Cpt. Occam specifically? It seems like just a complaint that Mathsci is "interfering" with SPAs who push a POV on Race and Intelligence article that was previously supported by Cpt. Occam and FtA. And this is a topic area that has a long history of disruptive SPA and/or sock puppeting. BTW, Boothello WAS topic banned from R&I recently for a mixture of "probable sock puppet of David Kane per duck" and "even if not, being a disruptive tendentious SPA".

• : This time it was to threaten an editor for what looks like a very brief involvement in editing the human intelligence template. Here Mathsci is making real-life, off-wiki claims about me in an attempt to threaten TrevelyanL85A2 (talk · contribs)

Again, what does this have to do with Cpt. Occam and FtA aside from the fact that FtA appears to be annoyed that her off-wiki friends' connections to her and the Captain - i.e. meatpuppets - are pointed out by Mathsci? There'd be no need for any kind of sleuthing if FtA and CO didn't keep recruiting off-wiki buddies in order to what looks like, an intentional circumvention of their topic bans. This wouldn't be that problematic, except that it's FtA who brought this amendment up and cited this for support. Having meat puppets is one thing, requesting that somebody be sanctioned "cuz they pickin' on my meat puppets" is another.

VolunteerMarek 01:13, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

@FtA this is the exact same group of people who were opposing me and Captain Occam around the time of the original R&I case in 2010. - no, I'm new and I'm also opposing this amendment and/or the meat puppetry edits on R&I.VolunteerMarek 20:38, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

@Boothello - Boothello you are currently topic banned from R&I topics for being a disruptive SPA and a probable sock puppet of a user (David Kane) who got topic banned during the original R&I case. This RFA is not, or at least WAS NOT, in any way related to yourself, hence it is not relevant discussion result process. Hence you are very clearly in violation of your topic ban, especially since you're using the opportunity to make a statement as a soapbox for stuff on R&I topics. *If* I was as bad as you say I'd have already reported you to AE, as you well deserve. I haven't but I still'd appreciate it if you removed your comment, or someone did it for you.VolunteerMarek 16:04, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Statement by aprock

Over the last two years, at least four confirmed off-wiki associates of Captain Occam have joined the project to edit in support of him in the topic area covered by WP:ARBR&I. Given this long history of WP:MEAT it seems counterproductive to restrict discussing him, or his associates, when trying to determine the nature of present disruptions. aprock (talk) 18:36, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Beyond My Ken

I would urge the committee to take this issue seriously -- not the request for amendment, which is frivolous in that it seeks to amend something which does not exist -- but the issue of Captain Occam and his continuing disruption of Wikipedia through proxies, notably FtA. CO's site ban should be extended to any editor who acts as his meatpuppet. Without such an action, the ban becomes a farce, allowing CO virtual access to the site at will. The project will not suffer from the loss of these editors, who contribute little. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:34, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Interesting that Vercrumba talks about Mathsci going into "attack mode" when it was Ferahgo the Assasin who raised this issue. Can ArbCom do nothing to shut down Captain Occam's proxies? Do you intend to allow him to continue to make fools of you, circumventing your rulings by utilizing his girlfriend and other proxies? For pete's sake, he's spitting in your face and laughing at you. Show some cojones, please shut down this disruptive editor for good. Beyond My Ken (talk) 11:11, 13 January 2012 (UTC) (Part struck as needlessly incendiary and disrespectful. My apologies. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:00, 14 January 2012 (UTC))

Could I suggest that a clerk please remove the comment below by The Wozbongulator, who has been indef blocked as a sock. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:31, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

In a recent addendum to her statement, FtA complains about seeing the "exact same group" of editors speaking in opposition to her, and named Professor Marginalia, Mathsci, Hipocrite, Aprock, myself, and Enric Naval. The crux here, however, is that these editors came here on their own, as independent actors, with no on- or off-wiki coordination, while the relevant charge, which negates FtA's request for amendment, is that FtA and others are acting as meatpuppets for the banned Captain Occam, and therefore should be subject to the same editing restrictions as CO is. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:47, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Vecrumba

I regret to observe that Mathsci thrives on going into attack mode. When I first became interested in R&I on-Wiki, Mathsci set upon me in no uncertain terms and brought up completely unrelated events in a blatant character assassination attempt. I can go back to provide diffs, this was quite a while ago, but the acrimony exhibited toward me at that time disposes me to believe Mathsci has serious ownership and self-superiority issues that no administrative action will ever solve. When an editor sets upon another, that is not frivolous, and whatever one thinks apart from the attack is immaterial to the attack itself (e.g., the object of the attack is a criminal and deserve what they get). If you ever want WP be a kinder gentler place, start with the attackers not their victims. Whether or not you approve of the victim is not material to the complaint here. If you think it is material, you're part of the self-righteous poison permeating WP. PЄTЄRS J V ►TALK 01:50, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Xxanthippe

I have to endorse generally the concerns of User:Vecrumba about the toxic editing environment in this area. My own views on the R&I issue are here.[68] Surprisingly they have never been criticized. I live in hope. Xxanthippe (talk) 01:34, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Enric Naval

So, we keep having more meatpuppets canvassed to the R&I area. Probably brought by Captain Occam or by people in his environment. And Mathsci keeps removing them. Understandably, Captain Occam is pissed. And Mikemikev keeps trying to insert racist content via socks. And Mathsci keeps removing those socks. I don't see how this is supposed to result in a topic ban for Mathsci. --Enric Naval (talk) 21:18, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Professor marginalia

The only reason I have for commenting in this is my mounting frustration with proxy disruptions in the involved articles. And the disruption is considerable — two of the articles especially, Race and intelligence and Race (classification of humans), are in awful shape. While povpushing puppetry isn't completely to blame for this, the exertion necessary to investigating them and their suspect edits (to keep the situation from getting worse) is so all-consuming editors are essentially too burned out to do much more or too intimidated to commit an opinion (given the likelihood there's a banned puppet or other bad character behind it all) so there's not much progress, imo. The R/I arbitration came about due to disruptive editing practices that included canvassing and tag teaming, misuse of sources and original research, forum shopping and incivility. Those of us editing these articles out in the open are judged by our edits now and our edits prior arbitration. But if those editors who were sanctioned are granted a handicap, ie rewarded, when they continue their crusade through proxies, then what's the point? Why are any of us to pay any time or mind to the process or results of arbitration?

I have no opinion whether or not an interaction ban is warranted between Mathsci and Ferahgo for conflicts beyond those involving the R/I articles. But forcryingoutloud....this was triggered by Mathsci's firmly worded cautioning of TrevelyanL85A2 who after a hiatus in the aftermath of earlier proxy editing accusations had returned to an R/I dispute. Then Trevelyan traipses over to Ferahgo's talk page to solicit her input, then she battles Mathsci on Trevelyan's page, and what follows between them since is a bunch of yada yada about who accuses who of what, in which venue it belongs, both of them shooting a few ineffectual arrows against the other about stuff outside the R/I issue.

Trevelyan was a recruit to this mess from off-wiki, along with several other proxies. It's a DUH! for anybody with a base measure of common sense who is following this goofy trainwreck, and google, to double-check themselves, just to verify, to make sure their DUH meter isn't on the fritz. (If this needs revisiting, I will provide diffs) Any "personal information" that's been repeated about Ferahgo, Trevelyan and Captain Occam now in accusations against Mathsci result from Trevelyan's re-entry to the R/I involved articles, and the both of them (Trevelyan and Ferahgo) wikilawying a way to sanction Mathsci for incivility.

I agree Mathsci's tone in remarks in disputes like this can sometimes seem provocative, but they have resulted in far less disruption in these articles than the obsequiousness adopted by topic banned Captain Occam and his proxies. Mathsci's been an unqualified benefit when it comes to identifying proxies. It seems to me that if Captain Occam-who is topic banned-and his recruits (1st generation, 2nd generation et al)-would move on and quit trying to game these articles, then wikipedia wins. By the same token, it seems to me that if Mathsci is sanctioned such that he cannot lend help with the proxy problem, then wikipedia loses. Professor marginalia (talk) 05:46, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

@Ferahgo-I suggest you refocus all your complaints about our behaviors in R/I to concentrate instead on whatever's bothering you about us that may be occurring outside the R/I involved articles. You're topic banned from R/I. Professor marginalia (talk) 20:32, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

@Boothello-So we have two topic banned users now who've been following Yfever. It feels like reliving Groundhog Day, again. And again. An AE action was initiated against you on Dec 13, fairly or not involving Ephery, [69], Yfever soon follows to R/I [70], and first links to then recreates the POVforked and AFD'd article Ephery userfied? [71] Professor marginalia (talk) 00:48, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Boothello

I don't care who gets banned from interacting with who, but there is no mistaking the editing environment in this area is abysmal. And I think the amount of cabalism on the topic is obvious to anyone who edits the articles and doesn't throw in with the dominant group. I had no idea that most of the people taking Mathsci's side here have been working as a group since the original R&I case. Marek joined them more recently, maybe a year ago. Any time a member of this group is in a dispute about R&I anywhere, its guaranteed several of the others will show up for support, even if the dispute is caused by one of them being disruptive.  

One recent example of how this goes is hipocrite's disruption. In these edits [72] [73] [74] he removed several paragraphs with the dishonest edit sum "not a reliable source." The content he removed was cited to peer reviewed journals Psychology, Public Policy and Law and The Open Psychology Journal as well as books from publishers Praeger, Methuen Publishing, Pergamon Press and W. W. Norton & Company. These are obviously RS, and Hipocrite's claim that they weren't was just a flimsy justification to remove content he disagreed with. I opposed him on this - as I had before on similar things, and during these edits he took his dispute with me to AE. [75] And in that, Mathsci, Volunteer Marek, Professor Marginalia and Aprock showed up to support Hipocrite and advocate a topic ban for me. This happened amazingly fast: Mathsci showed up at AE to support Hipocrite less than an hour after the thread was posted, even before I'd seen the thread myself. [76] So I got topic banned, and Hipocrite wasn't even warned.

It's been mentioned that AE threads on R&I are usually handled by EdJohnston, and one other admin who handles them sometimes is WGFinley. But the bigger problem is that both of these admins just react to majority opinion instead of looking carefully at diffs. A recent example is the report on Yfever at AE, which contained zero diffs, just a link to Yfever's contributions. Finley said at first this wasn't actionable, but then he went ahead and warned Yfever that although he wasn't being sanctioned, "if you continue tendentious editing as listed in the report, you could be." What does he mean, "as listed in the report"? The only "evidence" in the report was Yfever's contributions and some vitriol from members of the cabal. But this is all it takes at AE to convince an admin that someone's editing is tendentious!  

Cabalism + the nature of admins who handle R&I requests at AE = any members of the "group" can act with impunity. All they have to do to ensure AE threads will go in their favor is support one another and make uninvolved editors feel unwelcome, so there will be no one to disagree with them. Recall that Mathsci, Hipocrite and Marek have all been sanctioned in the past for the same behavior they're now displaying here. Mathsci was sanctioned for his incivility and battleground attitude in the original R&I case, Hipocrite was sanctioned for battlefield conduct in the Climate Change case, and Volunteer Marek (aka Radeskz) has been blocked by Sandstein for making public accusations of bad faith that rely on off-wiki evidence (which as Sandstein noted can only be sent to arbitrators). But what I can gather from the current situation is that recidivism in this topic area doesn't matter, because it's far more important to care about off-wiki evidence on someone who made one single edit to the human intelligence template. Is that what passes for logic in this topic now? 

I really, really hope that the arbitrators examine this situation carefully. Because it isn't just one or two editors that cause the problem here, the big picture issue is with the nature of the entire editing environment. That isn't to say that the behavior of certain individuals shouldn't be dealt with, of course.Boothello (talk) 23:22, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

• @Marek R&I topic bans apparently don't extend to arbitration pages. As far as I can see, nobody objected to Mathsci commenting on requests for amendment or clarification before his topic ban was lifted. [77] [78] I can also see from one of Feragho's diffs that Jclemens has said topic bans don't prevent commenting here in general. [79] That applies to me as much as to everyone else.

• To other commenters: this request began about Feragho and Mathsci, but then the thread turned toward the nature of the editing environment. Xxanthippe mentions it, Professor Marginalia commented on how Mathsci's behavior is justified because of disruption from socks, and Beyond my Ken said there's no coordination causing the same group of editors to show up supporting one another again and again in R&I disputes. These things are really painting a picture of the topic are that's far from complete, and the arbs deserve to have the complete picture. There are editors such as Xxanthippe who say they avoid the topic area because they can't stand the editing environment, [80] there are other editors like Yfever who are treated with the worst WP:BITE I've ever seen, and anyone who thinks there are no problems besides socks is just sticking their head in the sand.Boothello (talk) 22:38, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Slrubenstein

I have little to add to the statements by Aprock and Marginalia. Matchsci has added considerable encyclopedic content to articles relating to race and intelligence, in ways that fully comply with our core policies of NPOV, NOR and V. Captain Occam, Ferahgo the Assassin and others have generally edit-warred to push one particular POV. It is unsurprising that they and others (e.g. Xanthippe) try to paint Mathsci as pushing a POV but this is not a clash between two POVs, it is a clsh between a collection of people pushing one POV versus Matchsci and other editors who seek to give due weight to the different significant scientific points of view with appropriate context.

This conflict has certainly involved sockpuppets and meatpuppets and has already gone through arbitration. The most one can say about Mathsci is that she is zealous in ensuring that prior ArbCom decisions be enforced rigorously. If she has ever been excessive, well, this calls for clarification by ArbCom. But so far no one has provided any examples of her doing anything beyond attempting to ensure that ArbCom decisions are enforced stringently.

The proposed ammendment is the most disingenuous thing I have ever seen. Ferrahgo is upset that MathSci is vigelant in enforcing ArbCom decisions. If Ferrahgo ever thinks that MathSci is overzealous or wrong, she should deal with it the wikiway, through discussion. Beyond this, it is just ludicrous to topic-ban one of the best editors we have in the sense that this editor has spent considerable time researching the scholarship on race and intelligence and adding neutral and encyclopdic content. Mathsci is not the only editor ho has added much important content, but if we were to remove the content she has added it would significantly degrade the quality of a number of articles. This is not the editor who should be topic-banned. Slrubenstein | Talk 16:35, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

@Ferahgo the Assassin — so you have now added me to your list of co-conspirators against you. So what? I am sure that the members of ArbCom are familiar with a pattern that is pervasive at Wikipedia. Our articles fall into roughly three groups. First, articles on hot topics, like Justin Bieber and Barack Obama which may or may not be contentious, but which attract such a large number of editors all of whom have access to reliable sources, that sifferent points of view cancel one another out, or editors are able to work out compromises, and we end up with fairly detailed articles that actually comply with NPOV. Second, articles on obscure and uncontroversial topics like Emile Durkheim that, sadly for an encyclopedia, attract a very small number of editors. If we are luckly one or two of them actually know more than what one might have learned in an undergraduate sociology course or cribbed from other encyclopedias. The result is a highly stable, but also pretty superficial, article.

And then there is the third kind of article, like Race & Intelligence. As with Emile Durkheim, this is a topic that relatively few Wikipedians have expertise on or even have access to the most reliable sources, namely, recent books and peer-reviewed journal articles by psychologists, anthropologists, and sociologists, and who have enough contact with active researchers to be able to assess what weight to give different views and to understand the contexts that produce different views. Unlike Emile Durkheim, however, this article also attracts people with very strong points of view and who are fanatical about ensuring that their point of view be given the greatest weight. That is because this is one of those articles that is on a topic that is both of real interest to academics, and is also of interest to the general public because it touches on issues of importance to the general electorate (e.g. school funding, affirmative action). It is not at all surprising that the result is two groups of editors who regularly clash.

Ferahgo the Assassin, Xanthippe and others wish to paint this as a clash between two points of view. Or they will claim that they represent "the truth" and the co-conspirators who oppose them are pushing come communist point of view. Perhaps you may think I am doing the same - presenting MathSci and Professor Marginalia as representing the truth and Ferahgo the Assassin and others as POV-pushers. Maybe when it comes to this third group of articles, it is inevitable that editors on either side of a conflict will present themselves as relying on the most reliable sources and their opponents as POV-pushers. The point of this comments i not to classify Ferahgo the Assassin or MathSci as one or the other. I am just pointing out that Race and Intelligence falls under the third category of articles, and such articles are always plagued by such conflicts. These are precisely the kinds of articles that led us to create ArbCom in the first place. Unlike the second class of articles they constantly attract controversy, and unlike the first class of articles, the wikiness of this project, in which a mass of editors cancel out each editor's limitations or weaknesses, the third class of articles are centers of intractable conflicts. These conflicts are almost always between two groups of editors, and it does not matter (in my view) whether the members of a group are all friends, or simply happen to have comparable educational backgrounds and access to academic sources.

ArbCom has to arbitrate the case based on the actual edits and consider whether those edits express a good-faith effort to comply with core policies, or do not. This is the only issue. My own view is that MathSci conduct towards other editors does not reflect personal malice but rather a desire to ensure that past ArbCom decisions be enforced strictly, and her edits to articles reflects her attempt to represent accurately the most reliable sources, and to put academic debates in their proper context. Am I right or am I wrong? It is for ArbCom to decide, but they should not decide this based on my own history of edits, they should decide it based on MathSci's history of edits (and, if approprioate, Ferahgo the Assassin's history of edits). Slrubenstein | Talk 15:10, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Further discussion

Statements here may address all the amendments, but individual statements under each proposed amendment are preferred. If there is only one proposed amendment, then no statements should be added here.

Clerk notes

This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Arbitrator views and discussion

• Under the provisions of the final decision (as amended), could this matter not be referred as normal to the Arbitration Enforcement process? It seems to me that the interaction ban, if warranted, could be made as a discretionary sanction. Such a method of proceeding seems to me far preferable to any direct action by this Committee, which by its nature would probably be protracted and unpleasant. AGK [•] 22:01, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
• Mathsci, I'm not sure your responses here are consistent with WP:SHARE. Would you mind re-responding to the concerns only with respect to Ferahgo? We're not here to re-hear Occam's case, I trust both parties understand. Jclemens (talk) 15:43, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
• I'll be interested to see what others more experienced in this case have to say, though my initial feeling is that concerns about harassment might be better dealt with via RfC. The community can deal with harassment and potential outing matters, blocking if appropriate. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 00:50, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
• I'm recusing on this one as I recused on the original case and also am the administrator who most recently blocked Captain Occam. Risker (talk) 16:59, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

---

Requests for enforcement

Click here to add a new request

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by SonofSetanta

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user 

SonofSetanta (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) – SonofSetanta (talk) 14:51, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed 

this AE Report

Administrator imposing the sanction 

Wgfinley (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights)

Notification of that administrator 

The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.

Statement by SonofSetanta

There has been no attempt at frivolity by me. Mo Aimh made an edit at Ulster Defence Regiment which clearly reverted in one edit four different edits I had made the previous day here - none of which removed anything from the article. [81]. This is a clear breach of the 1RR policy on the article. There is nothing frivolous about that. One Night in Hackney stalked me to the Harry Baxter article to revert text about the Ulster Defence Regiment there without explanation or discussion which I felt was absolutely necessary given the current high feelings about the Ulster Defence Regiment article: that in addition to reverting an edit I made at the UDR article. The banning editor made it clear he was unhappy about the sourced text being removed but seemed to be under the impression that it was I who had reverted it - not true. I made the complaint in good faith, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Result_concerning_Mo_ainm.

I fully realise that the situation is confused. By walking into two editing traps I have found myself blocked twice for nothing more than trying to edit an article. There is nothing contentious about my edits and all are sourced but the same couple of editors always step in to remove them and preserve the article as it stands. I am not a very experienced user but do my best on this noticeboard to comply with what is required of me. The truth is I'm very confused about it all. I'm left feeling that I have been successfully gamed again and that fair play hasn't been shown.>

I would like the sanction lifted and the genuine, good faith complaints against Mo Aimh and One Night in Hackey to be looked at afresh. I sincerely feel the wrong editor has received a topic ban.

@HJ Mitchell. In my defence I would ask you to look at my editing history. How many blocks I have received, where and why? My contention would be that I am not a troublemaker. I have an interest in military history and make good edits on Wikipedia in good faith. As far as the Ulster Defence Regiment is concerned though I am not permitted to make any changes it appears. I've not been involved in trouble anywhere else which is why I don't know how to make complaints properly or even fight my own corner. On this board I am lost but no-one seems to be in a mood to assist or even extend good faith to me.

@WG Finlay. I have not posted a complaint in response to any complaint against me. No complaints about me where on the board when I clicked the link to make my own complaint. I am not very good at filling out the complaints forms however and it seems that on two occasions mine have come in second as a result. Had I been faster then it would be the others who would be in this position. Look at the times, that should confirm what I'm saying. I ask you: whatever happened to "extend good faith" and "don't bite new editors"?

@T. Canens. I have already stated that I made no frivolous or vindictive complaints. Please try to extend good faith to me. SonofSetanta (talk) 17:33, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

@All admins. See post below by Domer48 to illustrate how I have been treated on the several occasions I have tried to edit the UDR article. Always the same people and always preventing me from doing anything - sourced or not.SonofSetanta (talk) 17:47, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Clarification requested. I am still able to edit and post on the UDR discussion page. Is this ban I've been given some kind of voluntry thing on my part?

Statement by Wgfinley

For the record I wasn't notified but the filing party from the previous AE did so.

This case is a result of three different recent closures here at AE, they are listed above but for simplicity here are the three closures:

• Report concerning Mo ainm
• Report concerning One Night In Hackney
• Report concerning SonofSetanta

There was support from multiple admins in all three of these cases for a TBAN of SonofSetanta that the report concerning him/her had evidence of revert violations on Troubles related articles. There was also support from multiple admins (I didn't close the first case) that the cases SonofSetanta filed were frivolous and without merit. Given his/her revert and battleground behavior also evidenced by previous blocks in this topic area, invoking the cabal and filing multiple AE reports in response to an AE report filed against him/her that started this whole spat he/she is entirely deserving of the 90 day ban from Troubles and AE. --WGFinley (talk) 16:01, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Further Administrative Action

SonofSetanta has continued participating in an article subject to his ban[82], I've been forced to block him for two weeks as he just came of a one week block, I notified him he can still participate in this appeal by posting to his talk page.[83] --WGFinley (talk) 18:31, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Update Based on an email SonofSetanta sent me and some of his comments it seems he thought the system would prevent him from editing articles subject to his ban. I am going to AGF and assume he is being honest and give him a second chance. I've unblocked him and instructed him he has to govern himself in observing his ban. --WGFinley (talk) 13:44, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Mo ainm

SonofSetanta says "The banning editor made it clear he was unhappy about the sourced text being removed". This refers to a comment he made in his bizarre AE report on me here, which read "and removed an insert by me, properly sourced, about how women were more suitable as radio operators. There is no explanation for this other than to suggest the editor is gaming". Before that AE report by SonofSetanta, I had posted to the article's talk page here regarding this, giving my explanation for the removal of that content as "already covered in the same section". I repeated the same point on the AE report here. RepublicanJacobite (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) went even further than me when replying to the AE report here and pointed out the text of both the original text and the duplicate addition, and pointed out which paragraph they could be found in with a link to the version being talked about. So I don't know why this "he removed sourced content" card is still being played despite it being pointed out not once but three times the information was removed because it was duplicate information. SonofSetanta made a series of new changes to the article. I disagreed with some of them, and I reverted the article once here while keeping the changes I had no problem with, and explained my reasons for doing so on the article's talk page here. SonofSetanta reverted my revert, breaching 1RR in the process. SonofSetanta's post to the article's talk page regarding this is here, and reads "I happen to disagree so the information will be put back the way it was. Anyone who wants it removed should seek concensus here". As I've already said in the original AE report this is turning consensus upside down, Some of SonofSetanta's changes were reverted by me, I explained why, it was up to SonofSetanta to seek consensus for those changes. Instead he didn't take part in the discussion in any meaningful way, he reverted me and filed a bad faith AE report because I had made one revert which I explained on the article's talk page. Mo ainm~Talk 15:28, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Whatever happened to good faith? "There is no explanation for this other than to suggest the editor is gaming", despite the fact I had posted on the article's talk page here before he said that. Does good faith only work in SonofSetanta's direction? Mo ainm~Talk 17:56, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Domer48

SonofSetanta from their first talk page edit way back on the 13 October 2010 requested a mentor. They made the same request on their very first post on an editors talk page, asking that the mentor should have a "neutral point of view." There first edit to the UDR article was to remove a citation tag, and their fourth edit was to add an Attribution needed tag. In their very first talk page post we get the claim that Potter "is the official historian" and the very next day we had the whole " UDR historian" nonsense repeated again, again and then we get what appears to be an exact quote from the Potter book which says that Potter is the "official UDR historian, at the invite of the British MOD." This of course was completely untrue as the book says no such thing. Within three days of starting to edit, they post not only on the Reliable sources/Noticeboard but start treads on both Wikipedia talk:Verifiability and then on the very same day the Neutral point of view/Noticeboard before going onto WikiProject Military history/British military history task force. It won't be the first time that we get the call of help, I'm an inexperienced editor. This editor has been at this since October 2010. They have been making the same claims, starting the same discussions, and claiming inexperience. They understood enough about wiki from the start of their editing so its time to change the record. Asking WG Finlay "whatever happened to "extend good faith" and "don't bite new editors"? is a complete joke. Still claiming that they are new in 2012 and inexperienced is really pushing it. --Domer48_'fenian' 17:28, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Despite SonofSetanta topic ban, clearly stated on their talk page, stating that SonofSetanta is banned from "all articles, discussions, and other content related to The Troubles, broadly construed across all namespaces for 90 days" they ignore this, and post on the very same article talk page. And per norm, claim ignorance. --Domer48_'fenian' 18:03, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Statement by One Night In Hackney

There's little point me going over the frivolous report on me again unless really required? I have to echo the comments about "good faith", since SonofSetanta blatantly lies about what a book says (although this is the whole "is Potter the UDR historian" debate he's presenting what he claims to be an exact quote from the book, only it doesn't appear in the book at all) and describes my behaviour as "spurious in the extreme and this warring on the UDR article is part of a larger strategy to prevent articles on the Irish Troubles from being editied with a neutral POV". That's hilarious, and you'll have to forgive me for blowing my own trumpet for a little while. Take a look at Category:GA-Class Irish Republicanism articles. 1993 Bishopsgate bombing, Maze Prison escape and Mountjoy Prison helicopter escape were all created and taken to GA status by me, and pretty much me alone. Real Irish Republican Army was taken to GA status by me. So out of the seven articles, four were taken to GA by me. Or how about the only article in Category:FA-Class Irish Republicanism articles? 1981 Irish hunger strike taken to GA by me, then taken to FA by me (with some minor help from others). Or how about the discussion regarding me at Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles/Proposed decision#Proposed Finding of Fact 2? Like most things SonofSetanta says, it has little basis in reality. I grow pretty tired of him slinging mud at editors left right and centre (more diffs available, but I didn't feel the need to hammer it home) without anything to back it up, then demanding other editors assume good faith with him. Not happening under those circumstances.

I move (second time lucky, hence the "One intermediate revision by one user not shown") an article SonofSetanta created to the correct place, and he thanks me for the help. But when I make an edit to correct (described by Elen of the Roads as a "good edit") another new article SonofSetanta created, I'm a wikistalker. Obviously he hasn't read WP:STALK - "Correct use of an editor's history includes (but is not limited to) fixing unambiguous errors or violations of Wikipedia policy". If you make an edit to any article SonofSetanta edits that he doesn't like you're disruptive and/or a stalker and he reverts you, it's that straightfoward.

There's still major WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT problems as well. After severe problems in the discussion at [84], I post the text of the book being referred to here. Nowhere in the text does it say Potter claims to the the "UDR historian", "regimental historian" or "official historian", as a matter of fact it doesn't even contain the word historian. I also wasn't aware historian was a title you could bestow upon yourself even if it did. He was told here by Elen of the Roads that "you need a reliable secondary source that he IS the UDR historian". But despite this, while banned, we get "It actually proves everything. Potter IS the official historian. Clear as day". This editor will not listen, he constantly claims to be new and says experienced editors should help him more. But when then do try and help he just ignores everything if he doesn't agree.

If, for a second, we accepted SonofSetanta's notion that one edit equals four reverts if it happens to revert four edits at the same time, surely that would mean by making four edits in one day he is attempting to game 1RR by making so many edits they cannot be reverted without breaching 1RR? Food for thought...

Unless this editor is prepared to change I have little doubt we will be back here at AE dealing with him again within a week of the ban expiring. I see nothing since the ban has been imposed that makes me think there would be any benefit to it being shortened at present. 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 10:34, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Comment by BorisG

Textbook case of IDHT. - BorisG (talk) 02:36, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by SonofSetanta

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Unless there is more to the story than the diffs presented above, I can't see any merit to an appeal of the "verdict", so to speak. The only grounds on which an appeal might succeed would be an appeal of the sanction itself. I see nothing so far that would make me think a 90-day topic ban is unreasonable, but I would be willing to listen to an argument to that effect. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:27, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
• The original complaints by SonofSentanta are apparently vindictive and at least one is also manifestly frivolous. 90 days is probably lenient. Decline. T. Canens (talk) 17:21, 26 January 2012 (UTC)