Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 June 8

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June 8

Smoke Detector

I have a wired smoke detector here with a 9V DC backup and it beeps twice roughly every 20 minutes. It happened last night, I unplugged it and plugged it back in and it stopped. Now it's repeating the beeping tonight. Now, it says on the back that if it beeps every minute, then the battery needs changing. It's definitely not the battery, because I removed the smoke detector and took it out and tested it with my tongue as I do with 9V's. Something also peculiar, after I took the battery out, then it started to beep once every minute. Seems strange that it could beep without a power source, unless there's a capacitor still charged. Any thoughts on this double-beep every 20 minutes? --Russoc4 (talk) 00:48, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

If you have 'wired' it and are using the 9V DC as a backup, then taking the 9V out is not going to cut the power source, is it? You'd be best checking that out.--ChokinBako (talk) 00:57, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

By 'wired', I mean it plugs into a 120VAC source, but even after I unplug it from the ceiling, remove the battery, and wait, it still beeps. But that's not the point. The point is that it beeps while it's up on the ceiling. --Russoc4 (talk) 01:03, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Right, well, by 'beep', do you mean a single beep or the actual alarm going off (mine is a beeping alarm, this is why I ask about the beep). In answer to one of your questions, though, I do think many modern smoke alarms do have a charger inside so they can still work during a power outage.--ChokinBako (talk) 01:08, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

A single, short beep every minute while the battery is out. Two short beeps every twenty minutes while plugged in. If we're talking morse code, then you can call them dots. I've made a clip with Audacity. It's almost identical to the smoke detector: [[1]] --Russoc4 (talk) 01:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I could only imagine that there is something wrong with the power source. Either that or it is actually set to give you a notification that it is working, which is HIGHLY unlikely. Mine just has a little light for that, and that keeps me awake sometimes, but a beeping noise like the one in the sound clip would drive me insane. You'd be best contacting the manufacturer.--ChokinBako (talk) 01:29, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll ask around. I looked on the manufacturer's website and they say nothing about double beeps like that. I'll keep looking into it. Thanks. --Russoc4 (talk) 01:41, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Why not phone the manufacturer? It could be an error signal, meaning that you need to replace the detector. --Anonymous, 09:10 UTC, June 8, 2008.

Right. I'd also read the manual to see whether there isn't a switch that controls whether it reassures you that it's on by beeping or flashing. --Milkbreath (talk) 15:11, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Many smoke detectors will continue to give an "attention required" beep for a considerable time after they are depowered. The usual reasons for the beep are;

• The battery has gone flat
• Mains power has been lost
• A recent smoke detection is now cleared

You seem to have eliminated battery as a problem and proved that the battery fault beep is different from the one you are hearing now. Given that, you need to check that the 120V ac power is being supplied. Most usual reason is that the breaker has tripped. Most houses have a separate breaker for the smoke detectors so you will not necessarily have noticed the power going off. So go check your fusebox/consumer unit. If you have more than one detector in your house, you can also try swapping them around. If the fault moves with the detector, then get a new smoke detector head, if the fault stays at the same position, then you have a wiring fault. Other than that, get in a qualified electrician - don't mess with the wiring yourself. SpinningSpark 17:53, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

You said you tested the battery by applying it to your tongue; but did you actually try a fresh, new battery? Acceptable (talk) 22:41, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, it may have some voltage, but does it have enough ? Can your tongue tell the diff between 9V and 8V ? Use a proper battery tester. StuRat (talk) 23:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I have not tried a new battery. But I think I've ruled out the battery being an issue. I will check the circuit breaker when I get a chance. In all honesty, I am living on a college campus this summer doing research and I this is really a job for our maintenance workers. One of the campus police officers I asked said unplug it and plug it back in. If it continues, tell them on Monday. We'll see. --Russoc4 (talk) 02:18, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Medical dish

Is there a name for those kidney-shaped metal dishes that doctors put things in after pulling them out of the human body? I've mostly seen these on TV, but I have seen it once or twice in real life, so it seems to be pretty standard procedure. Therefore, I figured there must be a specific name for them. Is there, and what are they called? 137.186.173.69 (talk) 01:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

A quick Google Image search suggests that they are called kidney trays [2]. --Russoc4 (talk) 01:38, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Kidney dish has pics and Emesis basin doesn't. cheers, Julia Rossi (talk) 02:11, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I've always known them as kidney dishes, and google likes that also [3] Gwinva (talk) 02:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

math tutor

Where is the best place I can an online math tutor (paid)?

Don't point me to the Math RD please, it's nice for a couple of questions, but I need someone who goes through my exercises and tell me what I am missing, what I have to learn.

GoingOnTracks (talk) 02:36, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I can't recommend any tutors myself, but people should be able to give much better answers if you indicate what mathematical level you're at, and what sort of exercises you'll be doing. Teaching GCSE maths isn't like teaching finals. Algebraist 07:21, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I am interested in all pre-collegue topics. Even if I don't need them, it will also be nice learning in advance. Is there any eBay of tutoring out there? GoingOnTracks (talk) 12:02, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Probably everywhere on the internet you will find someone who can teach high-school maths. There are certainly thousand low-pay Russian mathematicians with a good level of English hanging around.

How much would you be willing to spend per hour of tutoring ? Were you thinking of e-mail, IM, or bulletin boards ? StuRat (talk) 23:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

8-9 would be cheap for me. I was thinking only of virtual interaction IM, skype or similar. GoingOnTracks (talk) 01:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Any particular currency? Algebraist 01:32, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Dollar, what else? GoingOnTracks (talk) 17:38, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying. You should expect to spend several million dollars per hour of tutoring. -- Coneslayer (talk) 17:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Not everyone here is from the US, you know. While I'm sure we have all guessed correctly that you meant USD, why did you feel the need to leave us guessing? -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 12:47, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Eight to nine dollars for good tutoring in mathematics is quite a deal, and you're probably only going to find that at a school's tutoring center. One small university in my city pays math tutors ten (US) dollars per hour; students receiving help, of course, don't pay anything outside the standard tuition and fees. I know this is not what you are looking for, but I mention it because my own rate is in the twenty- to thirty-dollar range, depending on the kind of help the student needs. My advice to you is to find archived video lessons, often posted by math teachers for their classes, or perhaps (if you're in the United States) check out the many courses offered on public access television. These courses don't provide interactivity for non-students, of course, but if you had any specific questions or problems, you could then bring those to the Reference Desk, where I'm sure people would be happy to help. You have to be aware that most qualified tutors have a million things to do, and eight dollars is not worth one hour of their time. Mitchell k dwyer (talk) 20:21, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I know that 8-9 US dollars is not too much. I said that 8-9 would be cheap for me. I meant that I could pay more. The point is that in some places outside the US, 8-9 dollars can be a lot of money. Some people can live decently with that amount/day. That's why also I am searching online. GoingOnTracks (talk) 23:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Twilight hack

Does it work with the gamecube version? --The Dark Side (talk) 13:31, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Since the gamecube does not have an SD card reader, no. Thomashauk (talk) 23:12, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I meant does it work on a Wii if I'm using the gamecube version of the game. --The Dark Side (talk) 02:18, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Alien sex pic question

I'd like to know, if its at all possible, what film or show this picture and this picture of a woman having sex with an alien is from. Can it be bought in the shops? Paradoxer (talk) 14:42, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure they are having sex? The alien looks dead to me. SpinningSpark 17:37, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

It's an "artistic" photo shoot by a guy named Terry Donovan. Here's the original one that the first blog got it from; here's more on Donovan's website. Not safe for work. (Note that all this required me to do was to check the original Wired.com blog post and figure out what it was linking to.) It is not from a film or a show. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 19:06, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Apparently, aliens drink PBR. haha. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.188.121.45 (talk) 05:31, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Horses - mucking out stables

In relation to the above subject, what does to 'set fair' mean? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.151.8.57 (talk) 14:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't know much about horses, but here's a link that mentions the term and it's meaning. Fribbler (talk) 22:54, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Disposing of the evidence

Hi, this is a oddball question. After I've masturbated, I usually hold my foreskin closed tight at the end of my penis to keep the cum from seeping out, then quickly run to the toilet where I deposit the load and flush. Is this what most guys do, uncircumcised of course. I can't imagine cuming onto a tissue or something, but do people? What is the most common method? Wasy Ples (talk) Wasy Ples (talk) 17:53, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

That's a good question, because it demonstrates a lack in Wikipedia. The masturbation article suggests nothing more than a tissue (like you're going to spend your moment of ecstasy manipulating a little tissue?), and we don't have an article on inflatable sheep or wank sock. Yes, some men use a sock, some use toilet tissue (plenty, so you can thoroughly wrap it round percy), some use a (dedicated) small soft towel. Whatever you use, make sure it it is clean and is soft enough that you don't get sore. If you're in the bath you don't need anything. Enjoy!--Mrs Wibble-Wobble (talk) 19:34, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I do the holding on to the end bit and then empty it into a tissue when it's all over, which I throw out the window for the rain to wash away. This avoids having a mess to clean up afterward and walking around the house where I might be seen by other people. Before I came up with that idea, I just positionned myself over an unused corner of the carpet, and rubbed it in thoroughly afterward, which was very messy, so don't do that unless you have no other alternative. You can't do it in the bath though, it would be all floating around in there with you. Not sure how a sheep would help though either. 92.21.134.11 (talk) 20:05, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

You could always use condoms.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 06:23, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Looking for work

I know, this isn't an advice site and I really should find somewhere a bit more appropriate to ask about stuff like this, but I can't be bothered.

Anyway, the thing is, I've been trying to find a job for a while, but there are some things I'm not sure about and thought maybe people here could help, what with many of you being normal people, who have seen more of the world than me. the first problem I'm having is with writing a CV. I'm not sure I'm doing it right. are there any things I have to do, stuff I have to write about, specific ways of doing parts of it, or can I just write about myself for a while, like an essay? And would they want to know what sort of person I am, what books I like, what I do in my spare time, stuff like that? I did read the article, but I'm still confused, it didn't help much. And secondly I'm having trouble finding any vacancies to apply for, they've all suddenly disappeared a few days ago. I tried a few websites but none of them were much help, especially as almost every job they find needs some sort of previous experience, which I don't have yet. Is there anywhere I can go or anything I can do to find jobs that don't need much experience? A final problem that I'm going to have soon and might as well prepare for now is that I am moving half way across the country in a few months, and would like also to apply for a job there, but I'll not be able to visit anywhere there until I actually move. Would that be a problem? is there any way of arranging everything before, so that it's almost all sorted out by the time I get there?

HS7 (talk) 18:02, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Your best information will come from people located in England, as you appear to be, based on the information on your user page. Resumés (CVs) tend to have a prescribed form or forms depending on where you live and what kind of job you are seeking. An essay is not a format I have ever seen for a CV. Your local employment bureau will likely have examples of good CVs posted and may even have free workshops in how to prepare a good one. If you have absolutely no experience at all -no jobs during the hols, no babysitting, no grass-cutting, no volunteer experience, no membership in clubs or other interest groups where you took a leadership role- it's an uphill battle to get your first one. As for moving "halfway across the country", you have the options of a few cheap day-return bus or train trips to look around. Most big cities carry newspapers from across the country, and, if they don't have hard copies, such papers are often available on line. Good luck! ៛ Bielle (talk) 18:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC) P.S. "I can't be bothered" should never appear where a potential employer might see it. If you can't be bothered to do some research for the beginning of the rest of your life, how likely are you to be bothered to go that extra bit on the job? Just a thought, that. ៛ Bielle (talk) 19:02, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

There are many places on the web you can look for jobs in another part of the country. The most well known is Monster[4]. They also have a CV advice page[5]. There is also the government run site Jobcentre Plus, which lists vacancies here[6]. There are many other sites and agencies which specialise in particular kinds of work, if you are looking for a particular kind of work try Googling for it. I agree with Bielle, negative comments like "I can't be bothered" are a definite no-no, I almost couldn't be bothered to answer your question. SpinningSpark 19:22, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

If you don't have any work experience, your CV should probably just include your education so far, a list of any extracurricular activities that would be relevant, and a list of skills (even really basic skills are worth listing as long as they aren't ridiculous. Can you type? Are you familiar with the Microsoft Office suite? Any other software of note?). Here's a nice model CV. Keep it simple and to the point. Do not "write about yourself for awhile." Don't talk about the books you like to read. Languages are a good thing. A few hobbies might give you a little character but leave off any that could have negative associations (playing video games is not something most employers consider attractive). Consider that the people reading it will just be skimming it. If you have no work experience, the best thing you can do is appear capable, professional, and a quick learner. And be prepared to work for cheap, at first. In the US, getting your first job is about applying, and then calling back cheerfully in a few days to see how things are going, and being prepared to not hear back from anyone for awhile, but eventually something usually comes through. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 19:19, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Obviously I'm not going to tell employers how lazy I am, but here, where I'm nicely anonymous, I can be myself.

Other than that, it seems all really useful advice, like usual, which is mostly why I've never bothered to find a different site to ask questions like this on.HS7 (talk) 19:56, 8 June 2008 (UTC) How to do a CV, by Serviam (talk) (Include headings):

Personal details

Name
Address
Telephone

Education

Years in primary school and name which school eg "2000 - 2005 in ballybackwater primary school"
Years in secondary school and name school

Exam results

English - A
Maths - C
...

Work experience

June-September 2006 in the tasty cafe, Bradford
...

Interests and achievements

I like swimming and won a race, and complated a life saving course

Referees

School Principal
School
Town

Mr. Johnson
Tasty Cafe
Bradford

ALWAYS PUT YOUR SIGNATURE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE PAGE FOR HANDWRITTEN CVs, AND ON THE LEFT FOR ONES YOU TYPED -Serviam (talk) 20:06, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

What now? I have never seen a signed CV or resume at all. Typically your signature should appear on the cover letter, not on the CV. --Trovatore (talk) 22:41, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

What if I can't remember some of what I did? If I really hated my school, and don't want anyone else to pay any attention to their oppinions of me, do I still need a reference from them? And what is a covering letter and do I need one of them too?HS7 (talk) 22:07, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

A covering letter is essentially a letter of introduction attached to your résumé - keep it brief. See Cover letter. You probably shouldn't include any referees who would speak poorly of you but your prospective employer may find it "strange" that you conspicuously omitted certain parts of your school career in your referees section. If you were ever in a position where you held responsibilities then mention those. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 22:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

The purpose of the covering letter is to explain why you want this particular job and point out the parts of your experience/qualification found on your CV are particularly relevant. What the employer wants to hear is that this is the perfect job you have really yearned for all your life. What they do not want to hear is "oh well ok, it will do until something better comes along". Do not leave out your school, employers are very suspicious of any gaps that are not accounted for. They expect to see all your time accounted for in reverse chronological order. If you leave gaps you will most likely not get an interview at all. At the very least you will get some very difficult questioning at interview. All they are likely to check up on with your school is that you did attend for the years you claimed and that you left with the qualifications you said you did in your CV. Not likely to try and get your teachers opinions of you. Not sure I like the idea of hand written CVs, some places that might be ok, but others won't like it so why limit your chances. SpinningSpark 22:32, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

While I don't want to minimize the importance of convincing the employer you want the job, I suspect that most employers understand that that part of the letter is often less than entirely sincere, and do not pay much attention to it beyond seeing that you cared enough to go to the trouble and that you can handle this sort of conventional social hypocrisy in a graceful and grammatical manner. But cover letters also serve a more functional purpose, which is to indicate which opening you're applying for, and what evidence you're including to show that you're qualified for it. Remember that the letter will not be opened by the person who decides whether to interview you, but by someone who has to decide who is the right person to forward it to. Anything you can do to reduce the chance that that decision will be the wrong one will improve the effectiveness of your search. --Trovatore (talk) 00:29, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Afaik, schools can issue a standard reference, not personal but says you were there, went whatever distance and they usually wish you well (no matter what).

And the jobs have probably been taken for the summer, but go to an employment agency and talk to them about applying anyway. Sometimes just walking into places, asking for the boss (of the cafe, discount store, MacDonalds or wherever) and giving out your cover letter, cv and a couple of ref letters clipped together (with your phone number), in a polite and friendly way is a good start. Julia Rossi (talk) 05:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Do I need to get my references first and take them all with me, or should I be trusting my vague memory that I just tell the employer who to contact to get them? What if my work experience place has closed down and I can't use them as a reference? I had been hoping I could just print lots of copies of my CV and then hand them out, but it seems I'll have to find out every place I want to apply to and write a seperate cover letter for each of them. Is there any way around this? what if I just visit each place and ask them about it first?HS7 (talk) 20:04, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi HS7, I'd say have things on paper: you could list the people who know you etc and their phone numbers on your cv page. If you haven't worked yet, two or three contact numbers can be enough. If you have a hard copy one from say, school or the work experience place or other contacts willing to write it down, then a couple. The idea is to photocopy/multiprint your cover letter, your cv, and a couple of refs you like, put them together and hand out the file as you go. One friend of mine spent the morning walking from place to place every day of the week until he got something out of it. He started in MacDonalds's then stacking in a discount store and later a trade apprenticeship. Another would just lie (this one was getting into hospitality): "You waitered before?" "Yes sir, I have." Even if he failed, he used the track record to say he had experience. Best not to think about it too much after you get organised and keep in touch with the local youth skills/employment body and maybe do any training courses they offer if they get your interest. Best of, Julia Rossi (talk) 07:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

PS I just realised that every place I've waitered for went out of business, but saying I have experience is still okay.  : ) Julia Rossi (talk) 07:24, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

But doesn't a cover letter have to be specific to that job at that place? So how would I print lots of copies, especially as I'm just going to anywhere I can find and asking them, so until I do that I have no idea even where I'll be applying to.

I have no idea who to have as references. There's my old school and my current school, then that's it. the shop I worked in has gone, and I have no idea what happened to the guy that owned it. I really can't think of anyone else.

And do I just put the school, or is it someone at the school, connected to whatever i did there? Where I did A levels last year and a BTEC course this year, but both at the same place, could I have someone from each course on the list of references?

HS7 (talk) 15:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi again, no it doesn't have to be specific unless it's a specialty related to you (as in if you had training, then it applies). Your goal is to get a job, I take it any job for now. You are saying you're available to work so the letter format offered above looks good to me, with a line saying how much you'd like to start working soon. About school, someone usually signs on behalf of the principal, so you can ask them at the office of both schools, for a ref and take it from there and get a record of your levels. If you've worked at the shop, that's something concrete even if the shop's gone. Small businesses come and go, no reflection on you: retail experience, customer service, cash handling (if it applies)... Definitely include whichever institution for the course and the name of whoever ran it with records. Ask around the food chains – you never know what turns up. Julia Rossi (talk) 09:56, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Cherries

Why are cherries so expensive? Also, is there a way to ask a question such as this to the author(s) of the Cherries article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scottmarks (talk • contribs) 18:08, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Personally I didn't even know that cherries were unusually expensive. I would have guessed this was due to the general worldwide increase in food prices, but this response to the question on Yahoo! Answers suggests that storms have damaged areas where they are grown.

There's no way to ask "the author(s) of the Cherries article" because it doesn't have a single author - that's the nature of Wikipedia.--213.94.148.138 (talk) 18:23, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Well you can find out the main author(s) of an article from the articles history page and then go to that users talk page. But there is no guarantee that they are either still editing Wikipedia or interested in answering questions. Here at the Help Desk is the best place for questions of that sort. SpinningSpark 19:28, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Or you could ask at that article's talk page, on the assumption that experts on the subject are more likely to go there than here.HS7 (talk) 19:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I do know that if there is too much rain then the water will just sit in the little divet on the top of the cherry and that water will quickly split the cherry. If there's too many rainstorms, too many of the cherries are split and aren't sold. Therefore, following the laws of supply and demand, when the demand stays constant but the supply decreases, the price rises. Useight (talk) 00:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Where I live at the moment (San Francisco), non-organic cherries are actually relatively inexpensive (last week 79 cents/lb, this week 89 cents/lb in my middle-of-the-road neighborhood). Mangostar (talk) 18:59, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Medicine Desk

Why is there a Medicine Desk when wikipedia can't give medical advice, and why is that desk never used? What is its purpose then? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rhodopsin drinker (talk • contribs) 19:16, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

It looks like it was created by a one-time-user without anyone noticing. It will certainly be deleted. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 19:23, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Tagged as such, an admin should be around to it soon to delete.--Serviam (talk) 19:54, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Volunteering

How can I become a Wikipedia volunteer? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.67.136.39 (talk) 19:25, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

By going to a page on the site and editing it to make it better. Just make sure it actualy is better though. reading the rules first sometimes helps with this.HS7 (talk) 19:44, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Click the "Sign in/Create account" button at the top right corner. You will have to create an account. All this requires is for you to make up a username and a password, and if you want you can put in an email address though that's not required.--Serviam (talk) 19:52, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not require you to have an account to edit, although it is recommended. SpinningSpark 20:23, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes that's fairly self-evdent, as the ip just asked a question...--Serviam (talk) 21:29, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

You said "You will have to create an account.", which is not true. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 22:00, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Take a look at Wikipedia:Contributing to Wikipedia which has a list of things that need doing near the bottom. Welcome to Wikipedia!, don't hesitate to ask questions if you need more help at Wikipedia:Help desk. SpinningSpark 20:19, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Bulls and Steers

Do bulls and steers act any different from each other? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.119.61.7 (talk) 22:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

A steer is a castrated male cattle. A bull is not castrated. --Russoc4 (talk) 02:26, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

And consequently bulls act more aggressively, are more territorial and also more determined to stamp over whatever stands between them and a cow. Steers are more docile in general. See castration in veterinary practice---Sluzzelin talk 02:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Besides bulls being more aggressive than steers, dairy bulls are generally more aggressive than beef bulls [7] . Temple Grandin says that a bull raised without the company of other bulls can be more aggressive toward humans, and that the development of this aggression can be decreased by raising him with older, heavier steers. [8]. Edison (talk) 14:45, 10 June 2008 (UTC)