Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Miscellaneous/2006 September 17

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
< September 16 Miscellaneous desk archive September 18 >
Humanities Science Mathematics Computing/IT Language Miscellaneous Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions at one of the pages linked to above.
< August September October >

Japanese WWII History[edit]

Why isn't the true WWII history, in the pacific, taught in Japanese schools?

First of all, is this claim 'true' the way you phrased it? Secondly, how do you define 'true' in the context of WWII history? Most nations struggle with NPOV when it comes to their own history taught at schools. Perhaps the article on historical revisionism has some more information and links that might interest you.---Sluzzelin 00:46, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
The study of truth belongs to philosophy and religion. History confines itself to written records that are often incomplete, contradictory, or open to interpretation. The best historians are quite humble about these limitations. Books about history that assert claims of absolute truth are generally written by second-rate scholars who shortchange any opinion that conflicts with their own. Durova 01:19, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
While the truth in some ancient wars may be obscured by history, such as the Trojan war, this is not true of WW2. This event is recent enough that there is a great deal of direct evidence, including living witnesses. So, if people say the Holocaust did not occur, there was no massacre of civilians in Manchuria, or there was no Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, these are not mere matters of opinion, but things which can easily be disproven. StuRat 10:58, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Even some of these things can be made problematic if one is willing to go down that rabbit hole. Of course all of the three examples you chose are highly politicized historical incidences as well, so it is really not worth even trying to discuss them, but if you picked something more mundane but equally large in scope, you can often find many, many ways in which any given event can be interpretted, spun, or even essentially denied. Even the facts of something as recent as WWII are not necessarily straightforward (and I say this as someone who does research into WWII and Cold War history at the professional level). --Fastfission 14:06, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
There could possibly be different interpretations of some events (like the Japanese might say they were "forced" to attack Pearl Harbor because the US was cutting off their trade), but the factual portion (that a large-scale aerial bombardment on Pearl Harbor by Japanese Imperial forces occurred on December 7, 1941), really can't be denied, due to overwhelming evidence (film, eyewitnesses on both sides, sunken ships, etc.). The US doesn't deny dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and Japan shouldn't deny what they did, either. StuRat 04:13, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Here's a question that I'll enjoy answering. It's not so much that what they're being taught isn't true but that they aren't really being taught at all. To understand why there's so much controversy about the way WWII textbooks have been made in the past, and continue to be made in Japan it really takes a deep understanding of a typical Japanese mind, which I will attempt to explain with examples in as little space as possible. I think it goes without saying that you should first get all of your information from the properly sourced articles on the subject (such as Japanese textbook controversy) that have already been created for us to browse through in Wikipedia, but I will try to attempt a more general, neutral while at the same time critical, perspective.
It appears that there is a considerable amount of awareness of the textbook problem, even amongst the Japanese authorities themselves, and there have been recent attempts to handle South Korean and Chinese sentiments by creating more neutral textbooks, but, at least for me, it doesn't seem like they've really got their finger on the correct problem.
I would like to outline a series of events that unfolded a few weeks ago on the popular (though rather controversial) satirical political debate show Prime Minister Ōta, a show where a popular comedian Mr. Hikari Ota (called the Japanese John Stewart by NYT) takes the stage by imagining (or having imagined for him) what he calls "manifestos" that would in some way improve Japan, or "bring peace to the nation", as the show boasts. It is presented in a comical way; one of the manifestos in the past was "force husbands who don't help with the cleaning to pay more tax", but they also often touch on very important issues, and I must say it is really fascinating.
You can imagine I had my eyes glued to the screen when I heard that the manifesto to be debated for the day was going to be to "create history textbooks in cooperation with other major east Asian countries". Ota is widely considered to extremely intelligent and leftish democratic, though it's possible he may be slightly socialist. It's difficult to tell because he often argues for the sake of a good argument, even when he doesn't necessarily believe in what he's arguing for. Regardless, the manifesto he proposed that day was on a very current and touchy subject, and the debating that day was harsh (red faces, spitting, name calling, standing up and pointing!).
As is normal with Ota's manifestos, the arrangement of seats at the beginning showed that most of the debators (many of them politicians) initially disagreed with Ota's proposal. By the end of the discussion, the participants voting against the proposal were pretty clearly divided into 3 different camps (and, not unusually, were fighting amongst themselves too):
1) Those who believed that it was a great idea, and wished it were possible, but didn't believe it would ever be possible, usually stating the "irrationality of" and "lack of constructive communications with" their Asian neighbours as the reason.
2) Those who believed that the issue was so far in the past that it had become an issue impossible to fix, unless given another equally long span of time to settle down.
And perhaps most shocking of all, 3) those who believed that the issue was far in the past and that it should be ignored because bringing once again such evil things to the light will only serve to undermine the delicate peace that has been achieved through 50 years of delicately planned democratics and wishy-washy dialog, as well as possibly "tainting" the current population of youngsters that had been lucky enough to have grown up in a peaceful and peace-loving society.
Granted, most of the political types were part of group 1, and those in group 3 were generally of the not-so-intellectual "TV personality" type, but it was still incredibly shocking for me to hear real people saying these things, actually believing them to be true. There were also other participants who didn't really believe it was much of a problem, or didn't really know enough about the problem to make any statements, but they weren't very active in the debate so their votes shouldn't have really counted for much.
On the other hand, a lot can be understood about the Japanese position when you see the way Chinese response looks living on the Japanese islands. With all the propaganda, fake democratics and demonstrations, and blatant censorship that filters through the communists into the Japanese media, it is really difficult to take anything the PRC goverment says seriously. South Korean protests seem to spark a little more constructive thought, but they are (unfortunately?) rare and disorganized, and often limited to small fishing communities: Japan is very popular in young urban Korea, and the reverse is just as true.
Now all of that is pretty much saying it "as it is", but the following is nothing more than a personal opinion, so don't take it as any more than that. I believe this problem of history is related to the lack of an ability for Japan to separate itself from its historical self. Japan is known for its rich, long culture, and they have a lot of pride for their zen, samurai way, haiku, etc. In the US, the scars of slavery still exist and threaten to flame up every now and then, but I believe the secret to the healing of those wounds is the fact that urban Americans nowadays freely and willingly admit to the horrible crimes that were commited, and have even idolized many icons of the struggle to end racism. An African-American will certainly have a different perspective than I do, but I'm only comparing the US to Japan here, which is by comparison a heaven-on-Earth for non-Japanese. The only real "icon" of racial rights I know of in Japan is some white guy named Debito Arudo, and though extremely obscure, most of the people that know his name seem to think he is little more than a foreign annoyance, whether they themselves are Japanese or not. It seems to me that many Japanese people think the crimes comitted in WWII and around that time were the fault of a few crazy Japanese generals, who are all dead now and never really represented the Japanese populous, which is true in a way, of any population and its commanders really. That doesn't really work well for the victims on the other side of the water, though, so as much as Japan may be considered Americanized today, it really seems to me that they've got a long way to go when it comes to being a nation boasting modern, responsible philosophy in the international sense.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  12:33, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
That's a very good write-up of the issues here. Even in the US people get mad when one "continually harps upon" the history of slavery, the treatment of the American Indians, the internment of the Japanese during WWII, the support of dictators during the Cold War, and now such unpleasantries as extraordinary rendition, the possibility of Bush having illegally stole the 2000 election, and things of that nature. It is often not so much a matter of arguing against a historical event having happened (though this does indeed occur) as arguing that it isn't worth discussing (or isn't representative, or isn't patriotic, etc.). History is very powerful stuff — for many it is what defines their individual and collective identity, and it is what gives an example of where they have been, how they got there, and where they are going. Even when people agree it can be for extremely dubious political reasons — most people in the US will acknowledge very openly the worst of the excesses committed in the name of racism, though by sticking primarily to the extreme examples they make the entire historical incident seem like the product of a few backwards Southerners rather than a pervasive form of social organization that reached through at every level and at every place in American society for 150 years. When you see things as the former it is easy to celebrate how far you have come; when you see things as the latter you start to wonder if things have just gotten more pervasive to the point where systems of blunt coercion are no longer needed to keep people "in their place". These are just examples of interpretations; I don't necessarily go to either extreme myself. --Fastfission 14:06, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
The way history gets taught in elementary and secondary schools has very little to do with the way historical studies are conducted at the university level. So far as I am aware, this seems to be true throughout the world. Conceptions of what young people ought to think about their country and society tend to take priority over stimulating actual inquiry. Durova 16:39, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
It's also interesting to note that the article on the Japanese wiki for this issue has been frozen since February, and you can see how frequently traded the reverts had been just previous to the protection in the page's history.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  16:52, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

This is why they don't teach it: Unit 731. They 're embarrased as they should be. Jasbutal 03:41, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[[)">Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg -->|thumb|right|280px|Two Japanese officers, Toshiaki Mukai and Tsuyoshi Noda competing to see who could kill (with a sword) one hundred people first. The bold headline reads, "'Incredible Record' (in the Contest to) Cut Down 100 People—Mukai 106 – 105 Noda—Both 2nd Lieutenants Go Into Extra Innings"]]

I don't buy the "just following orders" logic which explains genocide as the fault of just a few leaders, or maybe even just one. Following orders should never be accepted as an excuse, unless the person can show they would be killed if they refused those orders, and otherwise would have refused them. There is ample evidence to the contrary in WW2 Japan, however, as in the contest between soldiers to see who could behead the most Chinese civilians in a set time period with their swords. StuRat 04:31, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
There is a practical reason for Japan to now accept responsibility for their actions in WW2, the time appears to have come for Japan to rearm, possibly including nuclear weapons, to defend itself from North Korea and/or China. However, the US and other nations will be uncomfortable with this until there is evidence that Japan can face it's past and thus move beyond it. StuRat 04:31, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Your facts are a little bit off. In the last few years, the US has been calling for Japan to make modifications to Article 9 of the Japanese constitution (the part that forbids them to take arms) that would allow Japan to assist UN members in collective international military efforts on the UN Security Council. The government is rather divided on the issue, but the Japanese populous is still quite against it, often insisting that Article 9 is the secret to Japanese peace and is now a part of their culture. SK and China would certainly feel uncomfortable about letting something like that happen, which is primarily why they keep trying to prevent the UN from letting Japan become a member of the security council.
I don't think it really matters if one can be excused for "just following orders" or not, it is impossible to punish an entire nation for such widespread war-crimes, and I already breifly detailed above how I believe Japan should go about healing the long hardened wounds of Asia. Though it's obviously not non-existant, maybe not even by a long shot, I don't believe the issue here is denial at all. Most of the denial was done by the Emperor decades ago, and others tried to use secret documents supposedly written by the Emperor before he died as proof that Japan never really wanted to go to war in the first place. On the other hand, even now I occasionally see WW2 programming with titles such as "Why did we go to war?", and "Why was this done?" instead of "What we did in the war", and "Why did we do it?", though I can hardly think of any countries that would deliberately title their documentaries in that way.
I still don't believe that the main issue here is denial, there is no equivalent cult of Neo-Nazis denying the holocost in Japan. The main issue will always be that Japan avoids confronting the issue entirely, avoids situations in where the issue would come up as a problem, and China uses this fact to their advantage, attempting to fuel patriotic passions and increase their image while Japan turns a back side to them. Interesting article there, by the way, and I'm glad to see that it was correctly translated.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  11:18, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Which of my facts are a little bit off ? The new situation is North Korea having nuclear weapons and soon being able to reach the US West Cost with them. Once this happens, US threats to respond (if North Korea attacks Japan) will no longer be credible. Thus, Japan needs to be fully self-sufficient militarily. However, this makes the rest of Asia quite uncomfortable until Japan atones for their sins during WW2 ("If they don't say they're sorry for WW2, does this mean they will do it all again ?"). StuRat 12:02, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Controversial question[edit]

Should a 'points system' be introduced for those editors answering questions on the reference desks? If not, why not?--Light current 01:08, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but only if it gets me a free vacation to Puerto Vallarta. Durova 01:19, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
As long as there are not blackout dates. And I want triple points for answering this question. --Maxamegalon2000 01:32, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

(sorry : forgot to say this question is not included in the system-- if it ever gets adopted!)--Light current 01:37, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

How should the system be upheld? 惑乱 分からん 01:53, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
And couldn't the system be abused by people adding unimportant remarks instead of really answering the questions in a useful manner? 惑乱 分からん 01:54, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Don't you think? 惑乱 分からん 01:54, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes the system could be abused by fly by night editors, but points would be awarded by other editors: a bit like the Eurovision song contest. ie mediocre replies/remarks wouldnd get many points! So if I particularly liked your answer, I would give you a point (maybe 2), but I couldnt subtract points if I didnt like it.--Light current 01:58, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Would including the word 'seagull' in your answer automatically deduct from your score?---Sluzzelin 02:06, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Absolutely! In this case we need to make an exception to the rules! 8-) I would say mentioning that particular creature (or the shortened form-- without the 'sea') should instantly attract a score of -20 points (at least) --Light current 02:08, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Do you really think anyone would be that gull-ible... =P 惑乱 分からん 13:01, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Minus 20 points already!--Light current 13:25, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
That would be pretty cool to implement. --Proficient 04:27, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Then we would be well on our way to being Slashdot. 16:20, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
I think lightcurrent suggested this only because he knows he will win :). In seriousness though I would personally prefer a reputation system to some sort of points award. But that has been shot down many times in the past. --Darkfred Talk to me 16:24, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
I suggest leaving well alone. Has anyone seen Yahoo Answers recently? What a train wreck of a site that is. --Richardrj talk email 17:06, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Please remember that, as usual, Im only half serious! 8-)--Light current 21:41, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
I think lightcurrent got the idea of this points system from Yahoo Answers.100110100 15:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
No honestly, I thought it up all myself 8-)--Light current 16:02, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Steve Irwin[edit]

What website can I view the video at? -- 02:55, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it has been leaked or released (yet).---Sluzzelin 03:07, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
It has been stated that the video will not be released. Possibly, it could be leaked, though... 惑乱 分からん 13:02, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
It would be cool to see it. --Proficient 05:43, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
I'd definately save it --Froth 06:09, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Largest City Park[edit]

What is the Largest City park in the World?

The Englischer Garten in Munich? (3.7 km²) ---Sluzzelin 03:33, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
This Google search makes claims for several different parks. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:34, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Ok I just saw that South Mountain Park (Phoenix) has 65 km². I withdraw my ridiculous suggestion above. ---Sluzzelin 03:36, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
The article on South Mountain Park states that it is only the second largest in NA, so I assume that a larger one must exist in Canada. It's quite difficult to filter through all the US google results without explicitly stating what country you're looking for. [Correction] It seems that SMP may be the largest city park in NA, even though the article doesn't state it as such.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  11:25, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Here's a list of the largest US parks. I don't know how accurate it is. Anchoress 05:04, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
The article on SMP goes on to say that Franklin Mountains State Park in El Paso is larger, but isn't a city park because it's owned by the state. I don't think that this distinction is meaningful in most of the world, and so probably wasn't what was meant by the original poster. Marnanel 12:36, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
What is a park and what is a city park? The Amsterdamse Bos is 9 km2. 'Bos' means 'forest', but the northern part is clearly park-like, with lawns and neat roads. The southern half is a bit wilder, so should that be substracted? It is still maintained, though. The 'neatly maintained' northern half is about as big as New York's Central Park (probably the most famous city park). But Central Park is smack in the middle of the city and the Amsterdamse Bos is not really in Amsterdam, but at its edge. But it still falls within the city boundaries, so does it count?
South Mountain Park makes a distinction between city park, urban park and municipal park, but doesn't say what the difference between them is.
Here's another extreme example: Amsterdam is the city with the largest tree-density in the Netherlands. Almost all canals are lined with trees. So is it one big park? It covers 166 km2, so that's the biggest one so far. :) DirkvdM 06:42, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Isn't Amsterdam also crammed full of grass ? :-) StuRat 12:12, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, but you're not supposed to walk on that grass and in my opinion that means it's not much of a park.
On a more serious note, there ins't more grass in Amsterdam than in just about any big city anywhere. I't just that you don't get jailed for smoking it, so that's a rather popular pastime among young travellers, who alas consequently don't remember anything of their visit. In this case the t-shirts (such as "they say I visited Amsterdam") are all too often true. DirkvdM 17:37, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

GED preperation[edit]

need help with exactly whats on a GED test, so that I can study!

What's a GED test? And if it was anything to do with me, the first question would be "how do you sign your posts on wikipedia?" Howard Train 05:40, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

GED answers the followup question nicely, and it links to a free GED preparation course which should answer the original question.-gadfium 06:03, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
This probably means the General Equivalency Degree test. It confers a U.S. high school diploma for people who don't complete formal classwork but learn adequate skills through self-study. Here are some free sample tests (the site will try to sell you study materials too - this link is not an endorsement of their products)[1] And another link which is nonprofit but requires registration[2] - tests vary so it's a good idea to do a Google search for your state's version. Many states have public service websites devoted to their particular tests, although as a practical matter it's probably useful to get a separate study guide from a library or bookstore. Best wishes, Durova 06:06, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


What is the most mobile chess opening for black? 04:38, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

E4 D5. Anchoress 05:10, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Anchoress refers to the Centre Counter Defence or Scandinavian Defence, but I think the most open (and therefore mobile) defences are those beginning with e4 e5. Black has much less control over the opening than White does; if White opens with d4, then most variations result in a fairly closed position. Disclaimer: the last time I played chess, the Benko Gambit was fashionable.-gadfium 06:15, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
The last time I played chess, Benko Gambit was nothing more than an imaginary Star Wars character.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  11:12, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

IMO "e4 d5" was a good answer because Black will probably be headed for the showers rather quickly.

If you want a meaningful answer, you're going to have to explain what you mean by "mobile." B00P 11:12, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Mobile? That refers to moving about, or the possibility to do so. The motion of the pieces is restricted by the pawns. So an opening that kills off as many of those as fast as possible would be a good one. So assuming white opens with E4, D5 seems like a good one, as Anchoress suggested. But if white then does E5 you have to be careful not to let things get locked up instead. Then again, my chess prowess a bit rusty. DirkvdM 06:55, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
OMG Dirk -- another classic one: Mobile? That refers to moving about. I enjoyed the flatness of that answer so much! I dont know why I find pointing out the bleeding obvious so funny!--Light current 02:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


== i need help == can you send me refercing (bibliography) information plz i need it striaght away plz plz plz plz plz plz for

-- 06:28, 17 September 2006 (UTC)billi fretd-- 06:28, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi. If I understand what you are asking, please go to the article you want citation information for and click on "Cite this article" from the bottom of the toolbox links on the left hand side of the screen.--Fuhghettaboutit 06:44, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Wrist Watch keeps losing Time[edit]

My wife Susan has for a number of years an issue with her wrist watch losing time.

We have sent numerous watches back to the manufacturers to check for defects however they are unable to find any fault with the watch.

For no apparent reason during the course of a day the watch will fall back in time approx 45 minutes per day.

Are you to advise if this issue is in any way linked to body biorhythm.

Are you aware of others ever having this problem?

Thank you

Steve Walker–

  • Such a thing is usually linked to a defective battery. Did you have it replaced? - Mgm|(talk) 08:55, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I take it this is a quartz watch? I always found clockwork watches more reliable myself, and they can be cleaned more easily, although these days cleaning either type of watch is not always economical, and clockwork ones are becoming difficult to find. It sounds as though the watch is actually stopping for a while then starting again. I had this trouble with all my quartz watches, until I changed over to a radio-controlled (quartz) watch. Since then I have never looked back. They only cost a little more than a regular watch and are always spot on.--Shantavira 09:02, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
By the way, I figured it might have something to do with static electricity, but I never found out for sure. I don't think biorythms have much credence. Besides, everyone has identical biorythms!--Shantavira 11:56, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

If she and her watch were beamed up to an alien spaceship each night and flown far away and back at very near the speed of light, exactly the effect you have described would be observed. Not saying that is the explanation, but it's worth considering. Edison 21:48, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

  1. 1st week, have her wear the watch as per normal. At the end of every 24 hour period note the time loss and reset the watch.
  2. 2nd week, have her carry the watch but not wear it. At the end of every 24 hour period note the time loss and reset the watch.
  3. 3rd week, have the watch left sitting in your home undisturbed. At the end of every 24 hour period note the time loss and reset the watch.
  4. 4th week, you wear the watch. At the end of every 24 hour period note the time loss and reset the watch.
If in all four weeks the watch loses time then there is a problem with the watch. If the watch loses time only in the first two weeks then it would appear that the movements of your wife are causing the watch to lose time. If the watch only loses time in the first week then I would suggest you try a lapel, fob or pocket watch. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 00:35, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
My watch tends to be ahead most of the time. It keeps going ahead by a couple seconds each week. --Proficient 04:30, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Have you considered that maybe she's winding you up? --Dweller 13:11, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Have you considered that the watch needs winding up? Luigi30 (Taλk) 12:06, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I have "wrist"watch trouble and used a lapel type when I worked and now have a charmbracelet one but one on a wriststrap neer worked,battery or clockwork(hotclaws**== 15:52, 23 September 2006 (UTC))

Is this whole thread a complete wind up? Or is it just a bobbin?--Light current 02:50, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


hello, Im abner valiente from phillipines, i just want to make inquiry about the name of Sir Mick Paul a registrar of the british high court. You know friend, there are three of us here who was promised a job in london by the Solid rock international agency whose secretary is Rose anneth Kohl. She said that our documents was being lodge in the british high court whose registrar she said is sir mick paul. I just want to know if all of this is true.That Sir Mick Paul is really the registrar of that court. We have paid already around $300 for prospective job in london. Good if its really true. thanks and more power.

truly yours,

Sorry, but I think you've been scammed. Not only have I not heard of this person, but it sounds to me suspiciously like a combo of names of musicians Mick Jagger ("Sir Mick") and Paul McCartney. In the future, I would encourage you to check these things out before you hand over money, not after. StuRat 10:01, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Here are some suggestions to avoid being scammed in the future:
  • Get identification papers from anyone you talk with, such as a driver's license. If they refuse to show you such info, they probably aren't who they claim to be. Of course, if they do have ID, it could be fake or they could be using their real name for the scam.
  • Do Google searches on the alleged name of the company and the names of anyone they give you. If you find nothing (like I did for this scam), they probably don't exist. If you do find matches, read them to look for complaints from former "clients".
  • Ask for names and phone numbers of other clients. They might have some "shills" who will swear they are a legitimate company (in exchange for money), but large numbers of "clients" would be difficult to bribe.
  • If you have a police/government agency ("bunko squad") or something akin to the Better Business Bureau, check out the business there.
  • They should give you a receipt for any money and a signed contract. Did you get those ?
StuRat 10:14, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I agree with those sentiments above, that this is a scam. The High Court isn't concerned with everyday immigration matters (only very occasionally, with appeals of a serious and complicated nature). Visas and work permits are granted by the Immigration and Nationality Directorate, a part of the Home Office. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 10:33, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
For more information see scam. Whatever you do, don't send them any more money.--Shantavira 12:55, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

how to prepare for IAS from small class?[edit]

good evening mam/sir I am studying in IX standard. My ambition is to become a cardiologist & then to get IAS. What should i do toget my goal from now?– minu.

If you want to ask questions, it helps if you use terms that Wikipedians in general will understand. IAS is a disambiguation page with eighteen different expansions, and Google gives me such varied meanings as 'Institute of Alcohol Studies', 'Immigration Advisory Service' and 'International Association of Sedimentologists'. It might also help to indicate what country you are in (Wikipedians are all over the world). ColinFine 18:42, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I would suggest you learn how to use a stethoscope, a skill which is being lost in favor of fancy new skills, like using a CAT scan machine. StuRat 03:53, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, If you are an Indian,maybe i can help you. Coz even im in IX Standard. Frankly, IAS means a lot of hard work and a lot of pressure.So,if you want a Relatively easy job,go for Medicine/Biotechnology!!!! All The Best!!!

Location 0,0[edit]

Is there a name for the spot where the Equator meets the Prime Meridian? Ojw 14:36, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I doubt it; for a start, its an area of open ocean 350 miles off the coast of Africa, and also, the Prime Meridian is just an arbitrary line based on the location of a small London borough. smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 15:15, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
(observatory not borough...)
Well the line of 0°N has a name. and the line of 0°E has a name (albeit labelled "english invention" in wikipedia). and the line of 180°E has a name. and the point of 90°N has a name. and the point of 90°S has a name. It seems a bit strange that the point at 0°N 0°E doesn't...
Even if some of those places have physical meanings rather than arbitrary ones, it seems like the sort of place that cartographers would come-up with something more snappy than "the point where the equator and the greenwich meridian meet" to refer to the origin of their coordinate system. Ojw 16:03, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't know whether there's a special name for the spot, but sailors who have crossed it are known as shellbacks of the order of The Royal Diamond. Durova 17:45, 17 September 2006 (UTC) (shellback, order of the Golden Dragon)
The Prime Meridian was the North-South line at the Greenwich Observatory selected by George Biddell Airy, a meticulous 19th century astronomer, in 1851. In 1884 an international conference selected that exact line as the Prime Meridian, but France obstained from the voting and used a meridian in Paris as their reference. EuropeanTime throughout Europe was electrically coordinated in the late 19th and the 20th century ny noting when stars passed the index line of a telescope at that observatory set on an axis along that Prime Meridian. A similar telescope at the observatory had previously been a small distance away from the meridian selected by Airy. When GPS was set up the French allegedly did not want the worldwide navigation system to be so British as to observe the tradition of Airy's Prime Meridian, so via some mathematical conjuring, a reason was found to move the Prime Meridian 102.5 metres to the east of the line marked at Greenwich, causing great puzzlement when persones with GPS sensors compare them to the Airy Prime Meridian.Edison 17:12, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
I suggest 'origin'. I know its not original but..... 8-)--Light current 22:25, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I think the fact that it's in the ocean explains why it doesn't have a name. If it happened to be on land, there would be a name, a plaque, an obelisk, and probably even a MacDonalds there to support the thriving tourist trade. But things like that don't usually happen in the middle of the Atlantic. JackofOz 23:51, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

The prime meridian is as arbitary as deeming North America a "continent" Jasbutal 03:39, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Then what is North America ... a really big island ? :-) StuRat 03:50, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
North America wouldn't be an isalnd at all if it wasn't for the Panama Canal. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 04:42, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Calling North America a continent is as arbiutrary as calling it a sub-continent. Or an island, if you wish. DirkvdM 07:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
my criticism was not clear, labeling the entity, "North America" as important geographically is what is arbitrary. Jasbutal 23:15, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
If it had been on land, a logical name would have been ground zero. That would have been a more logical meaning for the term than 'where an explosion took place'. What idiot came up with that meaning? DirkvdM 07:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
That comes from nuclear warfare planning. "Ground zero" is used to designate the point on the ground, directly under a nuclear explosion ("or zero miles away"). StuRat 09:11, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Or an expected location, e.g. middle of The Pentagon. Ojw 12:32, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I know that (checked the article). But "zero miles/cm/cubits away" from what? the term most logically means the centre of something. Anything. It could also be used to refer to the the epicentre of an earthquake, to mention just one thing. Why limit it to explosions? DirkvdM 17:47, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
With your experience, Dirk, it should be illogical to expect the English language to operate logically. What are you getting all uppity about? There are more important battles to fight. JackofOz 20:55, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Oh dear, am I getting uppity about something? Well, it's pretty trivial, isn't it? I can hardly think of a better reason to get uppity about something. :) DirkvdM 05:59, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
The equator is arbitrary too. Why define the equator as parallel to the solar plane instead of perpendicular? Or diagonal? Or curvy-ways? --Froth 23:26, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
It's got nothing to do with the solar plane. Read equator. And it's not arbitrary either. You could say the Moon is arbitrary because why not define it as the Gulf of Mexico? Saying that does not make it arbitrary. Did you eat too much sugar? --LambiamTalk 01:53, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
True north is determined by the position of Polaris, which is perpendicular to the solar plane. Though Geographic north is indeed calculated by earth's axis of rotation, I was thinking of true north --Froth 15:47, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
If you read the article True north, you'll discover that it is defined in terms of the position of the North pole. The position of the North pole is determined by the Earth's axis of rotation. "Geographic north" is just another term for "true north". It is only accidental that there is a star, Polaris, roughly in the direction of true north. It's actually pretty close, less than 1° off, so why do you make a deal of the distinction? But let us pretend for a moment that it served to define true north. Then why should Polaris, a star some 431 light years away from Earth, have chosen to position itself in a direction perpendicular to the solar plane? Or is the Earth compelled to move in a plane perpendicular to the Sol–Polaris axis, and what strange force mediates this? In fact, that plane (known as the plane of the ecliptic) makes an angle of about 23° with the equatorial plane, which is perpendicular to the axis through the poles. --LambiamTalk 23:25, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Programming help needed[edit]

I'm trying to write a program on my TI 83 + SE for a Snake game (where the snake grows and the game ends if the snake hits the border or itself). Can anyone help? This is what I've got so far:

:Lbl ST
:While K=(24 or 25 or 26 or 34)
:If K=26:X+.1==>x
:If K=34:Y-.1==>Y
:If K=24:X-.1==>x
:If K=25:Y+.1==>Y
:If pxl-Test((32-10Y),(10X+48))=1
:Goto ST

prgmALLPREFD just resets the calculator to my preferred settings. 18:38, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

What you'll need to do is this: have two lists containing the x and y coordinates (in pixels, that's the only way you're going to be able to do it), say L1 and L2. You should also have two variables that gives direction, say A and B, for instance. A is how much the x coordinate of the head of the snake changes, and B is for how much the y-coordinate of the head changes. Hence, they can be -1, 0 or +1. For instance, if you are going to the right, A=1 B=0, and if you are going upwards, A=0 B=-1. Now, when the snake moves, you are going to have to erase the last pixel in the snake (stored in the two lists) and make draw the new head. You'll also need to remove the last element of your lists, and add a new first element. This will be very innefficient if you have the head always at 1, and very wasteful of memory if the head is always at the tail of the list. What you'll need to do is this: have a pointer to an element of the list that is the head of the snake. When the snake moves, increase that pointer, and add the new value (which is the previous coord. of the head + the change, ie A and B) at the pointer. This will remove the last pixel of the snake (ie it's tail) from the list, and add a new value as head. Make sure you erase the pixel from the screen first though. Ohh, and yeah, if the pointer goes beyond the length of the list, set it to 1. In the main loop, have a variable capture what key is being pressed and modify A and B accordingly.
That's the easy part. Next we have to do collision detection. The only way to do that with any speed on a TI-83+ is to simply look at the screen. There is a command (i don't remember what it's called) that can check if a pixel is lit. If the pixel you are about to run into is already lit, that means that you will collide. It's cheap and dirty, but it'll work. Hmm, maybe that part wasn't so hard after all :P
This is a fairly simple project, but if you are very inexperienced as a programmer, you might find it difficult. How much have you programmed before? How comfortable are you with loops and lists and such? Oskar 18:04, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I haven't programmed much. I have no idea how to do this list thing you're talking about though... I think the problem is with the "While" loop.

That "collision detection" thing is "pxl-Test(" option. To get to it: 2nd-PRGM-→7.

How about this:

:While K=1
:If K=1

for the "While" section? 18:38, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Nope... Nevermind that. I just tried it.... Problem not solved. 18:42, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I won't do it all for you, but I'll write the pseudo-code:
Clear screen

lX = (10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16) #This is the initial list of x-coordinates for the snake, where he starts
lY = (10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10) #This is the initial list of y-coordinates for the snake. Along with the x-coords this should be a horizontal line
loop on i from 1 to length(lX)
   draw pixel lX(i), lY(i)     #draw the initial snake

7 -> P #list pointer (it currently points to the next element of the list, ie 1 (when it comes to the end, it cycles back to 1).
0 -> K #the pressed key, initialized to 0

1 -> A #How the snake will move
0 -> B #these settings give makes him move to the right

while K is not equal to exit-key
  getKey -> K
  #These ifs decide what direction the snake will move.
  if K == left-key
    -1 -> A 
    0 -> B
  if K == right-key
    -1 -> A 
    0 -> B
  if K == up-key
    0 -> A 
    -1 -> B
  if K == down-key
    0 -> A 
    1 -> B      
  #Calculating new coordinate
  lX(P) + A -> X
  lY(P) + B -> Y
  #X and Y will now point to the next pixel that the snake will go to. 

  #Collision detection
  if PixelIsLit(X, Y)
     Disp "Your snake DIED!!!"

  #Now we increase the pointer of the list, and cycle it back to 1 if need be
  P + 1 -> P
  if(P > highest element of lX)
     1 -> P

  #Erase the tail of the snake
  TurnOffPixel lX(P), lY(P)
  #Set new head in the list
  X -> lX(P)
  Y -> lY(P)
  #Paint the head
  TurnPixelOn X,Y
End Loop

This should make for a decent snake game. You're going to have to write the code yourself (I haven't touched my TI-83+ in years), but If you have any questions about the algorithmic nature of the game, feel free to ask. Oskar 19:17, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Why wasn't this posted to the Computing Ref Desk ? StuRat 03:45, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, sorry about clogging up to RD. I could move it out of here if you want? Oskar 12:08, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
If it's already answered, there isn't any point in moving it now. Just be careful to post to the correct Ref Desk from now on. StuRat 17:50, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Spore (videogame) video[edit]

I want to watch the Spore video, but I use dialup internet, the video is over 300 MB, and I can't find it in a compressed format. Could somebody link me to a compressed file of it, or else download it and compress it for me? Thank you so very much. -- 15:48, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

By the way, it takes me about 10 minutes to download 1 MB. -- 15:56, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think many people are willing to do this kind of work for you. Use a download manager, such as GetRight that lets you save your downloading progress, or try to find some friend with a faster connection and a CD burner. 惑乱 分からん 15:57, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
"The" Spore video? Is there a specific one you want to see? Many smaller videos (of the upcoming game spore) are available on Youtube.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  16:40, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
He's referring to the 300MB GDC '05 video which has a lot of d/l places. It's a MPEG anyway so it's pretty compressed. You can find both the full version and the gameplay only versions on google video...getting links...gameplay only full, found on SporeWiki. Good luck! Chris M. 18:38, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Native Americans[edit]


i am a student trying to find out info on the california culture group and wikipedia doesn't have it can you help me??

We might if you retype that with proper grammar, punctuation, and capitalization so we can understand it. Alphabetagamma 19:01, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Whats the point of responding if you're going to be so obtuse and unhelpful, when did the ref desk become a service provided to those only with flawless english grammatical knowledge. Philc TECI 19:17, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Whats the point of responding to an obtuse and unhelpful response with an obtuse and unhelpful reponse? Joneleth 19:19, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

In the possibly poorly founded hope that you won't do it again. Hipocracy doesnt devalue the point, but further highlights the problem. Philc TECI 20:06, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
California's Native Americans were noted for their diversity, not their unified culture. See Category:California tribes for individual tribes. Rmhermen 19:27, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

There isn't a lot there, but have you looked at History of California through 1899#Before European contact? User:Zoe|(talk) 19:30, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Dick and Jane[edit]

Why is there so much nostalgia for Dick and Jane? The books were so damn boring! Your pal, Duke of Doubt

Well you know, Duke, people are idiots. Come to terms with it now, and you won't be disappointed in the future. Oskar 20:12, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Spectacular answer! Best of the week! alteripse 21:58, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I disagree with Oskar and alteripse. The Dick and Jane books were intended for first-time readers. Of course they're not great literature, but no early readers are. Have you tried to read McGuffy's Readers [3]? (I'm surprised we don't have an article on them! Or on William H. McGuffy). User:Zoe|(talk) 22:13, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Dr. Seuss Durova 23:44, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes, Dr. Suess books were made to show that you could make a book using only simple words and still have it be interesting, unlike the Dick and Jane books. StuRat 03:39, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Aren't these books often remembered for their cheeziness? As a footnote, I recently read my father's and uncle's Norwegian Early Readers from the 60's. Horrible, conservative, judgemental stuff. 惑乱 分からん 23:06, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Aww, thanks! Oskar 22:56, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

It fun to make fun of because it's so bad, much like MST3K. StuRat 03:31, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

See Dick. See Jane. Dick sees Jane run. Jane sees Dick run. Dick dicks Jane. Dick gets VD. See Dick's dick run. StuRat 03:31, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

!!!!!!! Jasbutal 03:38, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I am not even sure what a Dick and Jane book is. Perhaps I should read the article. --Proficient 05:44, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Did you never wonder where the movie title Fun with Dick and Jane came from? (Btw, the George Segal/Jane Fonda 1977 original was much better than the Jim Carrey/Téa Leoni 2005 remake.) JackofOz 08:53, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

BTW, while we're dumping on the blandly moronic Dick and Jane books, has anyone noticed if the actual reading abilities of 1st- and 2nd-graders has gone up with whatever they're using now? B00P 10:30, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

The Dick & Jane books may very well have taught basic reading skills. The problem is that they also made kids think reading was boring, which may have contributed to them becoming nonreaders later on. StuRat 11:55, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Pittsburgh Steelers sports trivia[edit]

Hello, I am trying to find the answer to this question... Who signed Pittsburgh's Steelers first million-dollar contract to play football?

Thanks for your help.

54/40 or fight[edit]

From whence comes the quotation "54/40 or fight"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

54-40 or fight. 'Nuff said. Anchoress 21:55, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Interesting. --Proficient 05:45, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

The Polk administration called for the Canadian border in Oregon Country to be at 54 degrees, 40 minutes north latitude. Next time, don't be lazy and look it up yourself!Sturgeonman 20:30, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

drink driving law[edit]

Is it against the law to sleep in your car in the back seat with your car keys placed underneath the passenger seat after having consumed a large amount of alcohol? Is this classed as drink driving? COuld you be arrested by a policeman if he saw someone doing this?

In what country? User:Zoe|(talk) 22:25, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I think in UK you could be prosecuted as you are in control of the vehicle. If someone else had hold of your keys either inside or out side the car, you may be ok.--Light current 22:28, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Just thought of a way round this one: Say there are 2 of you, each with his own car, then you swap keys (or cars) and sleep it off 8-)

--Light current 22:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Here where I live, it only counts as drunk driving if the car is running. But it really does depend on the local laws. Hyenaste (tell) 22:33, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
If you're sleeping you'll be there for some time. If you parked your car on the road, you might be fined for obstructing the road. If you're on a parking space you don't count as a traffic participant, so you couldn't get a trafic fine, I'd say. According to Dutch law as I understand it, that is. DirkvdM 07:10, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
And now for a silly answer: "COuld you be arrested by a policeman if he saw someone doing this?" Only if you were that 'someone'. Unless there's some other policeman (they never come alone, you know). DirkvdM 07:12, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Height and weight of Andorra and San Marino populations[edit]

Dear Ladies and Gentlement,

I am interested in the average heights and weights of the populations of Andorra and San Marino. Thank You. Tom Samaras

I'd guess they're average. --Dweller 13:08, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Is it possible on average to make a decent living with eBay?[edit]

Yes, I know eBay employees can, but what about people selling things through eBay?

I've just had some junk mail which says that withing three months it is possible to make £1000 a month through spending one or two hours on your computer, by selling surplus possessions, things bought at car boot sales and so on. Is this true please?

Yes, I know you could do this if you sold off your surplus rolls-royces, but what about the average punter? 23:05, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Don't listen to that. people who make money off eBay do it through a corporation, and the corporation usually 'goes bankrupt' and the person is left with very little money and the corp laughs all the way to the bank. And although this may sound harsh, it might be a good idea to get a real job instead, for both financial reasons (you could end up with serious debt) and legal reasons (eBay could sue). Sorry. ~ Porphyric Hemophiliac § 23:11, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't... 惑乱 分からん 23:12, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Word. ~ Porphyric Hemophiliac § 23:13, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes, in a few areas it is possible to run a decent business. In the US for instance tool importing is quite lucrative with 500% markups in some areas. Chinese and Taiwanese tools are often duplicates of US brands, and are sold locally for 1/10th of the cost. Import 1000 or so and you are in business. Assume a 1:4 or more loss for returns and warrantee work though. Choose an unsaturated tool, too. --Darkfred Talk to me 23:18, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

It's very possible to make a decent living - in the UK for examples many (small) businesses have closed their bricks and mortor premises to concentrate on their ebay store. --Charlesknight 23:20, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's possible, but you won't live like a king just by cleaning out your attic. As with any other business, you have to study the market and arrange a supply line. Not every product sells equally well on eBay. Then create a niche strategy and budget time for creating ads and auctions and for packaging the goods. Durova 23:40, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I've heard of people that made money buying up goods with their auction title misspelled (e.g. amethysts) and reselling them with the words spelt correctly. As less people search for misspellings, such goods received less bids and sold for less than 'market value'. Arbitrage, basically. Of course, if this still works (I don't sell things on Ebay much so for all I know they have a built-in spellchecker now), since I've seen it on the news I'm sure other people will now be doing it and it won't turn a profit anymore. To make real money from Ebay, you probably need to have an actual business of the sort Charlesknight mentioned. --Sam Blanning(talk) 01:22, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I know a couple of people who are making a decent living selling stuff on e-Bay, but it's not the kind of career you just trip over. One is fairly expert at recognising good deals in junk stores (not necessarily 'the big one' as far as antiques, but stuff like single pieces of china that people would pay big time for as a replacement for the one piece missing from a 144-piece set, etc), and the other puts a lot of time into buying at bankruptcy sales; odd lots of perfumes, factory seconds, electronic equipment etc. And he has a warehouse where he stores it all. A field that is good to get into v/v e-Bay is pop market stuff like trading cards, figurines, signed celebrity photos, etc. But you either have to know about them or be willing to become an expert. Personally I don't think it'd be worth it. There are lots of things I could make money off if I wanted to become an expert in them, but it sounds too much like ... work? :-) Anchoress 01:29, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Not for the average person. --Proficient 05:47, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
I have a friend who's been making at least a living wage off of selling things on eBay for several months. However, he's not doing the "find good deals, either in person or on eBay, then sell them on eBay for a profit" thing. He's selling items for other people on comission. So that's a possibility. Chuck 21:25, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Pop Tabs[edit]

Why does one collect pop tabs from pop cans for school? Jamesino 23:09, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Several organizations donate money (usually about 2 or 3 cents) for every soda pop top turned in. These fundraisers are rarer, now, but if the operation is legit, you could really do some good by turning in hundreds or even thousands of tops. ~ Porphyric Hemophiliac § 23:11, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Why would the coroprations need the pop tabs? Why not just turn in the entire pop can? Jamesino 23:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Which is easier to transport? 10,000 tabs in 20 trash bags or 10,000 cans in 150 trash bags? It's like a proof of purchase.~ Porphyric Hemophiliac § 01:38, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
this doesn't get to the bottom of the question.....why pop tabs? Does Coke give money for every pop tab? Is the incentive that for every pop bought, and proved to be purchased with a tab, a large soda corporations will donate to charity? Or is it that pop tabs are just a form of currency because they're not "easily" available, they're not "easily" counterfeited, they're easily transported, etc. Can the question be answered with a simple, "they're a commodity, like gold" ? Jasbutal 03:36, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
This turns out to be very odd. a truckload of cans yields about $10 at the recycler while a truckload of tabs yields about $1,000 or A million pull tabs have a recycle value of just under $300 U.S.. But Pop Can Tabs Collection says the myth became real as does 2,200,000 pop tabs which earned $1,320 and Ronnie. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 04:50, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Not so odd, rather simple actually. There's no paint or ink or anything on the tabs, so they're relatively pure in composition, and since they're wrapped pretty tight, there's little wasted space for air.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  09:33, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
The snopes link given earlier is worth a view. Skittle 21:49, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Going commando[edit]

I recently started going commando, but I can't figure out how to zip up without getting my dick caught. Could somebody help me with this, or will I have to go back to wearing underpants? Thanks. -- 23:27, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Tuck it in before you zip up. Or you can do what actors do when they're filming nude scenes by taping it to your leg. Jamesino 23:30, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

The other concern comes if you run a cross country/track race with short shorts and it falls out. :) --AstoVidatu 23:41, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

No, that's okay, I like that. The real concern is when it gets caught. It really hurts. -- 23:48, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Buy pants with button flys. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 00:05, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
OK if you must persue this disgusting habit 8-), I've an idea: before you zip up with your right hand, say, you take your left hand, put it round your back between your legs and firmly grasp the offending member. Pull as hard as you can towards the back and hold it there by squeezing your legs together. You can now do up your zip. In this way you only have to worry about trapping your balls/pubic hair! Simple 8-) --Light current 00:06, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Buy bigger pants? Oskar 01:07, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Or buy bigger pants.. yes!--Light current 01:59, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
What are the benefits of taping it? --Proficient 05:48, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
A trip to the Emergency Room if you see a pretty girl and "rise to the occasion". StuRat 11:49, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
It stops it from flopping around all over the place. Transvestites also do this to lower the crotch profile.  freshofftheufoΓΛĿЌ  09:31, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Or pants withouty zippers, (although I'm not sure on what they're called in English, at the moment)... 惑乱 分からん 10:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
You have never worn pants without underwear? All you have to do is put them on, and make sure your penis and scrotum are INSIDE the pants. It isn't that hard. — [Mac Davis](talk) (SUPERDESK|Help me improve)06:11, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
At first, no! 8-) But with the extra friction it may get that way!--Light current 20:53, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Wear sweatpants --Sturgeonman 20:34, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

What about donig the Superman thing? Wear your underpants outside your pants?--Light current 23:40, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Intel Processors[edit]

Can someone give me a quick summary and comparison of the various new Intel Processors: Pentium, Pentium Extreme, Xeon, Core, Core 2, Itanium, Itanium 2? Thanks Jamesino 23:29, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Is Comparison of Intel processors sort of what you're looking for? -- Rick Block (talk) 00:00, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
That seems a little too ocmplex and "computer-ish". Can anyone just run over the quick points and pros and cons? For example: Xeon is used for server, its faster than etc...... Thanks Jamesino 22:16, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
Pentium was intel's old home processor line. Some of the pentium series had exteme editions with some extra feature like higher clock speed, larger cache, or faster bus. Xeons and Itaniums are the server line, with xeons being on low end server racks and itaniums being the insane upper end server line. core duo was intel's first foray into the dual core home market and was upgraded a little with core 2 duo this summer. core 2 has twice the cache at the higher end models, and has considerably less power consumption. Also you might hear people refer to Conroe or Merom, these are the desktop and laptop lines of core 2 duos, respectively. --Froth 05:59, 20 September 2006 (UTC)


Any one know how it got its name. I know next to nothing about it.--Light current 23:43, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Please see List of company name etymologies#E. -- Rick Block (talk) 23:50, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
It means electronic bay.
No, It's short for Echo Bay, according to the above link. ~ Porphyric Hemophiliac § 01:39, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

And here I thought it was pig Latin: "Ebay ymay alentinevay". :-) StuRat 03:06, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

nice --Froth 05:59, 20 September 2006 (UTC)