Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests

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A request for arbitration is the last step of dispute resolution for conduct disputes on Wikipedia. The Arbitration Committee considers requests to open new cases and review previous decisions. The entire process is governed by the arbitration policy. For information about requesting arbitration, and how cases are accepted and dealt with, please see guide to arbitration.

Please make your request in the appropriate section:

Contents


Requests for arbitration


Requests for clarification and amendment

Amendment request: Civility enforcement

Initiated by Hawkeye7 (talk) at 09:58, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Case affected 
Civility enforcement arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)
Clauses to which an amendment is requested
  1. Remedy 1
List of users affected by or involved in this amendment
Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request
  • Self, no confirmation needed
Information about amendment request

Statement by Hawkeye7

As of December 2014, I have contributed to 39 Featured Articles, a featured list, 75 A class articles, 178 Good Articles, and 163 DYK articles. I have been active as a MILHIST administrator, being re-elected to a fourth term in September 2014. In this capacity I have assessed articles, closed A class reviews, and written articles and reviews for the MILHIST newsletter. I assist at DYK with reviews and assembly of the prep areas. I have also written and maintained the MilHistBot and FACBot used by the featured article and MILHIST A-class article processes, and for updating the MILHIST announcements page. I was runner up in the WikiCup in 2013.

I have been involved with GLAM work with the Australian War Memorial and the Australian Paralympic Committee. I was instructor in four Wikimedia Australia workshops, and an accredited Wikimedia media representative at the Paralympic Games in London in 2012, where I filed stories and interviews for Wikinews, and worked on keeping the Paralympic articles up to the minute. Since then I have continued expanding the Paralympic articles, particularly relating to wheelchair basketball and rugby, and the games in Sochi in 2014. I attended Wikimania in Hong Kong in 2013 on a scholarship from the Wikimedia Foundation. I also ran, albeit unsuccessfully, for the post of president of our Australian chapter.

In all of these activities, the loss of my admin tool set has been keenly felt. It is embarrassing to have to file constant requests for admin assistance, and painful to watch DYK run late because I cannot reset the queues. I am not seeking to have my admin status returned; merely to be restored to being a editor in good standing with the community by having the verdict against me vacated. Per WP:CLOUD: exceptions may exist in some cases, for example reinstatement may be by Arbcom appeal or perhaps consensus was reached to leave the matter a particular way at the time. This often happens in cases where passage of time is needed to decide what is fair, where demanding reaffirmation could actually be seen as unfair or impractical. ArbCom retains jurisdiction over all matters heard by it, including associated enforcement processes, and may, at its sole discretion, revisit any proceeding at any time.

An earlier request in 2012 so I could be a candidate in the ArbCom election that year was dismissed without prejudice to refiling at a later date, on the grounds that ArbCom was fully engaged in that year's elections. I was hoping that the community might adopt proposed measures to supplement or replace the RfA process. Chances of reform have now dimmed, but I chose to wait until after a recent case had close before refiling. ArbCom have criticised me for being a poor politician, but I have always tried to do the right thing, and I hope that the Committee will consider this request.

@Thryduulf I am asking for the verdict against me to be vacated. The last sentence differs from the conventional wording, "may regain the tools via a request for adminship". In my case, ArbCom retained the right to overturn the RfA verdict. It also precludes the use of an alternate mechanism in the event of reform of the RfA process.
@Newyorkbrad Thanks for your comments. You will be sorely missed when you leave ArbCom. Hawkeye7 (talk) 01:40, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
@Seraphimblade The admonishment was part of the Racepacket case. A conflict between an editor (LauraHale) who was a close friend of mine, and one called Racepacket spiralled out of control, with Racepacket harassing her, and attempting to contact her employer about her Wikipedia editing. This resulted in an RfC/U, and then an ArbCom case. My part was quite minor. The Olympics Project decided to rename one of the articles she was editing, and had up for GA review. Racepacket jumped in, and the GA bot became confused, resulting in multiple copies of the review being generated. The tools were needed to fix this problem, so I stepped in. When Racepacket interfered, I blocked him for 48 hours while I repaired the articles. It was very wrong of me to do this. Another admin (Ironholds) reviewed my block, found that it was improper because I was WP:INVOLVED, and switched the block to a more reasonable one of a week. When the case went to ArbCom, my bad block was again reviewed, and I was rightly admonished by the Committee. There was only one admonishment. Ironically, while the case was ongoing, ArbCom put a stay on my content work, so I only did admin work for a time. ArbCom criticised me for issuing very few blocks, so I became more involved in this area. Racepacket's one year ban was subsequently extended after he made comments about me on another Wiki, which ArbCom did not choose to share with me. Every now and then one of his socks shows up, and I file another SPI.Hawkeye7 (talk) 09:15, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
@Seraphimblade The second case, which happened a year later, involved the editor now known as Eric Corbett. I had never had any interaction with him before, and knew nothing of him. When I came in, he had been blocked by one admin, and then promptly unblocked by another. He then said this, and I blocked him. The case went to ArbCom, which defined wheel-warring as "undoing each others' administrative actions without first attempting to resolve the dispute by means of discussion with the initiating administrator". At the time I believed that I had not done this, but ArbCom ruled otherwise. The one week block was not overturned. During an appeal for admin assistance I said that Eric seems to be a koala (an Australian military term meaning a protected species). This was considered an egregious personal attack, but I had not meant it that way. Hawkeye7 (talk) 10:12, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
@Seraphimblade I would prefer never to block anyone again. Ever. Hawkeye7 (talk) 10:12, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
@Salvio giuliano You seem to have forgotten that you wheel warred by lifting my block without any attempt at discussion. Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:25, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Thryduulf

The relevant remedy reads, in full, "Hawkeye7 (talk · contribs) is desysopped for wheel warring and conduct unbecoming of an administrator, in the face of previous admonishments regarding administrative conduct from the Arbitration Committee. Hawkeye7 may re-apply for the administrator permissions at RFA at any time."

Given the last sentence, I don't understand what is being asked of the committee? It seems clear to me that ArbCom has declared that it has no objection to the community giving Hawkeye7 admin status following a request at RFA whenever they (the community) feel he can be trusted with the tools - there is no need to get the committee's permission to do so. Thryduulf (talk) 10:40, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

@Hawkeye7: I'm not reading the power of veto in that sentence that you are, particularly as the "conventional wording" post-dates your case. RFA reform has been in discussion for a long time, but serious proposals for the way forward being an alternative process first emerged long after your case so the intent of the restriction is clearly only to distinguish between requesting adminship from the arbitration committee and requesting it from the community (or from Jimbo).

In any case I don't see the need for this to be vacated - at most replacing the final sentence with the now standard wording or "Hawkeye7 may regain the tools following a successful request for adminship at RFA or alternative community-sanctioned process". However, I think all that is actually needed is a clarification from the Committee that the wording used here means the same thing as the standard wording.

To avoid the issue arising again in future, it may be worth the committee explicitly stating (by motion?) that if the community sanctions an alternative process or processes to the current RFA (whether a direct replacement or not) then any editor who has been desysopped by the Committee with instruction/allowance to reapply at RFA or by "request for adminship" may use such any alternative process (they would be entitled to use if they had never held the tools in the first place) without explicit permission from the Committee. I would strongly encourage them to use better wording than that though! Thryduulf (talk) 13:02, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Comment from Harry Mitchell

I've worked with Hawkeye at MilHist and DYK and I have the utmost respect for his work. He has made some mistakes in the past, and I won't dispute that the events leading up to the desysop were—shall we say—not his finest hour, but I thought at the time (and, now that I know Hawkeye better, have no doubt) that the 'personal attack' was a misguided attempt at humour with no malice intended. A lot of water has passed under the bridge since then (as near as makes almost no difference, three years' worth—half a lifetime on Wikipedia). I believe Hawkeye has redeemed himself, and has amply demonstrated his trustworthiness. If we had a suitable process for (re-)appointing administrators, Hawkeye would be an admin again. But the standards at RfA have little, if anything, to do with what would make a good admins and more to do with extracting a pound of flesh from candidates in retribution for perceived wrongs by the candidate, RfA, Wikipedia, The System™, or something else.

Although I understand the reluctance to get back to reinstating removed admin rights, ArbCom does have the ultimate ability (ArbCom giveth, ArbCom taketh away, blessed be the name of ArbCom!) to do so, and I would echo Anthony's comments that devolving such authority to the community (while in principle an idea I heartily support) while the community has no functional process to make such decisions would be unwise. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:46, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

An analogy comes to mind that, to me, nicely addresses the jurisdictional/constitutional argument against this request: for ever other remedy, ArbCom retains the sole jurisdiction to vacate the remedy. ArbCom is not in the habit of posting appeals by editors it has site-banned on ANI, nor does it tell editors topic-banned by arbitration remedy to appeal to the community, so why would it insist that an admin desysopped by remedy go through RfA (which, as a side issue, is a broken process that is the greatest act of masochism on Wikipedia)? It seems out of sync with all other arbitration remedies. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:13, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by {yet another user}

Clerk notes

This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Civility enforcement: Arbitrator views and discussion

  • Hi @Hawkeye7: That is indeed a stellar body of work. It is true that we still have jurisdiction over the case but, even at that time, the committee was moving away from reinstating sysop privileges (something it had once regularly done) and leaving it to the community to make the call. There is no bar to you going to RFA and this is touched on in the remedy discussion. ArbCom has been seeking for some time to return peripheral responsibilities (which it has had foisted on it as part of a delegation of God-King powers) and, regretfully, this is one which I would be very reluctant to resurrect.  Roger Davies talk 10:39, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
    • As far I can see, the last time ArbCom resysopped someone was in 2009. Since then, the updated Arbitration policy has been ratified, giving ArbCom authority in its own right and incidentally superseding our earlier authority as a delegation of Jimmy's powers (which includes the power to sysop). In the process, the policy limited ArbCom's jurisdiction to removing sysop privileges.

      However, we do have the authority, as part of our ongoing jurisdiction over cases, to restore the tools when we withdrew them because a fatal error in an earlier decision. We have never been down this route because truly fatal errors are rare and because we are not in the business of re-writing history for the dozens of former admins who were desysopped by us or resigned under a cloud.

      The sysop/desysop process has three components: (a) community consensus, which determines who may receive the tools but not who may lose them; (b) ArbCom, whose decisions determine when an admin loses the tools but not who may gain them; and (c) the bureaucrats who independently and after due diligence execute the sysop/desysop process and we have no authority (apart from a vague term in the "Management of websites" section of the Terms of Use) to compel them.

      What ArbCom certainly does have the jurisdiction to do - always assuming that sufficient cogent arguments and persuasive examples would be provided to convince arbitrators to accept - is hear a case about serious conduct issues arising at RFA, the resulting toxicity/dysfuntionality of the RFA environment, and the consequent misapplication of policy/guidelines there. In such a situation, ArbCom could issue temporary injunctions, mandate a binding RFC to resolve the issues, or impose procedures to ensure that RFA is policy-compliant, and issue injunctions in the interim.

      In other words, while ArbCom cannot resysop desysopped individual admins by fiat, it can do something within the framework of a case.

       Roger Davies talk 13:38, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

  • Awaiting further statements. My preliminary reaction to this request differs from Roger's in that I would be open to restoring adminship to an administrator we had previously desysopped where circumstances warranted, consistent with decisions this Committee has made on occasions in the past. ¶ In this instance, I cast the sole vote in opposition to desysopping Hawkeye7 in the original case in February 2012 (see, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility enforcement/Proposed decision#Hawkeye7 desysopped). My view at that time was that while Hawkeye7 had significantly mishandled the incident that led to the case, there were mitigating factors, one of which was that the matter would likely never have come before this Committee at all if it had not happened to involve a particular editor, and another of which was that I saw little likelihood of repetition of the incident. ¶ If Hawkeye7's description above of his contributions since February 2012 is a fair one, which I have no reason to doubt but on while I will await community input, I believe that more than two and one-half years away from adminship would be a sufficient sanction for the misconduct we found, and I would be inclined to vote to grant this request. ¶ That being said, based on evolution in this Committee's practices in recent years, I anticipate that this approach might not receive majority support from my colleagues. In that event, I hope that the community would be open to a new request from Hawkeye7 at RfA (particularly if he agrees in such request to avoid controversial blocks). In addition, if the community were to create a new or revised approach to selecting administrators in addition to or in lieu of RfA, nothing in our prior decision would bar Hawkeye7 from applying and being considered under such approach. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:54, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Like Newyorkbrad I actually believe the committee should, in some cases, move to restore an administrator's status. That said, although I have never interacted with him directly, my one memory of seeing Hawkeye on the encyclopedia outside the original case gave me a dim impression of him. On balance, I am undecided about this appeal. Although I disagree with the shift towards non-motion adminship restoration, I am also not minded to grant the petition for this particular user. I will continue considering and will read further statements with interest. AGK [•] 20:41, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Thryduulf says, "serious proposals for the way forward being an alternative process" – RFA is unfit for purpose, as the entire project accepts, and it is therefore an unsuitable recipient of the committee's delegation of powers. AGK [•] 20:44, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
  • I'd be minded to at least consider such a request. As AGK says, we all well know the current incarnation of modern RfA has its issues, to put it mildly. However, I would want to see the request, rather than say "I've done great things on articles and it's been a while since the issue," directly and specifically address the issues that led to both the initial admonishment and later desysop, and explain how Hawkeye7 intends to ensure that a third such incident will never happen. Seraphimblade Talk to me 05:53, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
  • The FOF was accurate and the consequent remedy was appropriate. In light of this, I think we should not vacate the relevant part of our decision. And, although I agree that the RFA system is broken and that it's far too difficult for good users to become administrators, I recognise that the principle so far has always been that the community grants the tools and ArbCom may review their use. ArbCom's remit is very limited and does not include the power to interfere in how the community appoints administrators, even if we were to consider it dysfunctional.

    I can see us regranting adminiship when we made a mistake, or when new evidence comes to light which should have been taken into consideration but wasn't or other, similar, and exceptional cases. This, in my opinion, is not one of them and I don't see why we should treat Hawkeye any differently from any other editor who wished to become a sysop simply because he already was one before being desysopped for cause. Salvio Let's talk about it! 10:59, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

    • I most definitely did not wheel war and I'll thank you for removing your unfounded accusation. Being one of the case clerks, I unblocked Eric for the sole purpose of allowing him to participate in the arbitration case about him, as was (and is) customary. Salvio Let's talk about it! 12:25, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
  • I agree with Salvio on this matter. I don't see the original FoF and remedy to be incorrect. As such, Hawkeye can reapply for adminship via an RfA at any time, but I don't see where it's acceptable for us to return it by fiat at this point. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 14:09, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Clarification request and appeal: Discretionary sanctions alerts

Initiated by  Sandstein  at 16:21, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Case or decision affected
WP:AC/DS

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:

Statement by Sandstein

Today, John Vandenberg, an administrator, alerted me about the discretionary sanctions applying to the Eastern Europe topic area, and logged this as a "notification" on the case page, which he later changed to a "warning". Judging by an earlier comment, he did so to register his disapproval of my speedy deletion of an article created by a sock of a banned user. After I removed the alert after having read it, it was immediately reinstated by an anonymous user, 41.223.50.67.

Per WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts the purpose of such alerts is to advise an editor that discretionary sanctions are in force for an area of conflict. I am and have been active as an administrator by issuing discretionary sanctions in this topic area, and am therefore perfectly aware of the existence of these sanctions, as John Vandenberg confirmed he knew. The alert therefore served no procedure-based purpose. This also applies to the unneeded logging on the case page: Unlike earlier notifications, alerts are not logged on a case page because they can be searched for with an edit filter. John Vandenberg knew this because he used the correct alert template as provided for in WP:AC/DS.

It therefore appears that John Vandenberg used the alert procedure and the log entry not to actually inform me about discretionary sanctions, but that he misused the alerts procedure to mark his disapproval of a deletion I made and to deter me from making further admin actions in this area with which he disagrees. That is disruptive because this is not the purpose of alerts, and it is not how admins are expected to communicate with each other about disagreements concerning each other's actions. It is also disruptive because it has had the effect, whether intended or not, to create the incorrect impression in another administrator that I am disqualified from acting as an admin in this topic area because I received this alert.

To the extent the now-"warning" is meant as a sanction in and of itself, it is meritless and disruptive: The speedy deletion I made was compliant with WP:CSD#G5, and does not conflict with the prior AfD because the ban evasion issue was not considered there. Any concerns about this deletion should have been discussed at deletion review.

Per WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts, "any editor who issues alerts disruptively may be sanctioned". Nobody other than the Arbitration Committee is authorized to issue such sanctions. I therefore ask the Committee to clarify that alerts should not be used for any other than their intended purpose, and to take such actions (e.g., issuing a warning) as it deems appropriate to ensure that John Vandenberg will not continue to issue alerts disruptively. By way of appeal of discretionary sanctions, I also ask the Committee to remove the "warning" from the log as being without merit.

Prior to making this request, I discussed the issue with John Vandenberg, but we failed to reach an understanding, and he invited me to submit this matter to this forum for review.  Sandstein  16:21, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

I cannot understand John Vandenberg's contention that I used admin tools while involved. I have never interacted with "Polandball" or related pages or users editorially, but only in an administrative capacity. Per WP:INVOLVED, such continued administrative activity does not speak to bias (even if others may not agree with the admin actions), but is instead merely part of an admin's job. John Vandenberg's casting of unfounded aspersions of misusing admin tools and of "battleground mentality" is also disruptive. As I said elsewhere, I did fail to take into consideration that my alerting the user who filed a DRV request concerning an AfD I closed might be perceived as an improperly adversarial action, even though an alert is not supposed to be one and I didn't oppose the restoration of the article proposed at DRV. I'll keep this in mind in a similar future situation. Nonetheless, because alerts may be issued by anyone, including involved users, the alert raises no question of involvement.

As concerns the "warning", either it is meant as a discretionary sanction for misconduct (as the warning by me he cites was) and in this case is appealed here as meritless and disruptive, or it is not and has therefore no place in a log under the new procedures.  Sandstein  18:30, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

John Vandenberg: Alerts are not admin actions because they neither require advanced permissions nor are they restricted to administrators. But neither are they editorial actions that speak to bias and would disqualify an admin that issues them, because they are intended to be neutral and informative in nature. Are you seriously contending that merely issuing an alert makes me involved and unable to act as an administrator, and on that basis you alerted and warned me? It should be obvious that this can't be the case, if only because by that logic your own warning would be inadmissible because it was preceded by your alert which would have disqualified you from acting further.

This episode indicates, to me, that this whole alerts system is unworkably cludgy and may need to be scrapped if even former arbitrators can't understand it, and that perhaps general clarification is needed that discretionary sanctions and alerts are, shall we we say, not the ideal way to respond to concerns about admin actions - such concerns are normally a matter for the Committee alone.  Sandstein  21:51, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by John Vandenberg

To my mind, Sandstein is obviously 'WP:INVOLVED' in the current DRV about Polandball, however not surprisingly he claims to be uninvolved. To quickly recap, he is the admin who deleted the article at DRV; when notified of the DRV, he decided to issue a DS alert to the person who initiated the DRV, and speedy delete another related article which had survived an AFD and was mentioned on the current DRV. When User:Nick undid the speedy deletion, Sandstein also demanded that Nick redelete it. IMO, this is fairly clear battleground mentality, only including the use of admin buttons for good measure. All quite unnecessary, as a sizable chunk of the community would participate in the DRV, so his voice there would be heard. It is very strange logic that Sandstein felt he had to alert user:Josve05a about discretionary sanctions, but objects to me feeling the same way about his own editing/admining in this topical area. He claims his alert to user:Josve05a was not an admin action (otherwise he would surely run afoul of 'WP:INVOLVED'), but then cant see he is participating as a normal contributor. Maybe he considers a DS alert to be a friendly chat, when he gives one to someone else ...

Anyway, the nature of this clarification is the use of alerts and the logging of them on case pages. Obviously some serious saber rattling would have quickly occurred had I sanctioned Sandstein, so I went with an alert only with a stern message with the hope he could see how others were viewing it. He didnt; he continued to post aggressively. When I found the right DS alert template and posted it, the edit filter notice reminded me to check if he had been notified any time in the last 12 months, and press Save again if I was sure it had not occurred. As I didnt find any prior notices (in edit filter log or on talk page archives), I proceeded to save the alert. I then went to the relevant arbcase to log it as is the usual procedure. I knew DS had been standardised earlier this year, and was pleasantly surprised by the edit filter logging, but it didnt occur to me that alerts would not be logged. The arbcase log for the EE case had all the signs of logging being part of the standard procedure.

Since Sandstein objected to the logging, I went and had a look at other cases and found quite a few examples of the log including notifications and warnings; I did offer to give Sandstein examples of such notices and warnings, but we are here now. Here are the ones that I've quickly found in arbcom case logs since April 2014.

If it is no longer appropriate to log alerts/notices/warnings on the arbcom case, an edit filter should be added to ensure admins are aware of this change. John Vandenberg (chat) 17:50, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

@Sandstein, when you put a notice on user talk:Josve05a, were you doing that as an admin or as a normal user? If it was the "editor Sandstein" who popped that friendly note on user talk:Josve05a, and not the "admin Sandstein", can't you see that you've become INVOLVED? John Vandenberg (chat) 18:41, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
@Sandstein, so you issued a DS alert to user talk:Josve05a with your "editor Sandstein" hat on, and you want admins to be exempt from discretionary sanctions? Thanks. John Vandenberg (chat) 01:17, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Nick

I've nothing to add to the clarification and amendment section, but I will state, as I have repeatedly said, I'm really getting fed up watching good content be deleted and destroyed as a result of battleground mentality. It genuinely makes me sad watching material that people have put their heart and soul into, being deleted because it was written by this week's bogeyman. Nick (talk) 17:57, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

@Future Perfect at Sunrise. The CSD-G5 criteria cannot be used on any page that has survived a deletion discussion (AfD). The CSD-G5 deletion by Sandstein was out of process. Please refer to Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion#Pages_that_have_survived_deletion_discussions for further information. Regards, Nick (talk) 12:16, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Olive

If the DS alert is going to be used without a sting it has to be used for everyone all the time. Its common for editors to know an article is under DS, but this isn't something one can assume. Of course, the use of the alert can been abused and can be seen as threatening. Use that is universal will over time render the warning as commonplace and standard, will de sting. Whether it was used in this instance as an implied threat, I don't know or care. Behind many of the actions I've seen against editors over the years are threats, some so complex as to be almost invisible. I know how that feels, so am not condoning anything that threatens but unless we deal with the surface level of an action and ignore assumption we will never get to supportive editing situations.(Littleolive oil (talk) 19:04, 1 November 2014 (UTC))

Comment by A Quest for Knowledge

One of the goals of the recent reforms which turned "warnings" to "alerts" was to remove the stigma of the warning/alert. Apparently, that stigma is alive and well. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 22:57, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Comment by Alanscottwalker

Giving a "warning" is an administrative function. Its only purpose is administration of the website. No, a User does not have to have privileges to do much of administration on Wikipedia. The idea is anathema to the community, which expects good users to administer, even to requiring such at RfAdmin, moreover, the website would not function, if users did not step up. So no, giving a warning does not mean one is INVOLVED. Alanscottwalker (talk) 01:40, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Comment by Fut.Perf.

John Vandenberg's actions in this case are wrong on so many levels at once it's hard to know where to start. About his technical misunderstanding of the nature of alerts and the non-logging of "warnings", I think all has been said. More importantly, his warning was wrong on its merits. As for the speedying of Why didn't you invest in Eastern Poland? (the only issue he actually mentioned in the warning), Sandstein was processing a valid G5 speedy; the fact that there had been an earlier "keep" AfD is obviously irrelevant as long as the facts justifying the speedy weren't known and discussed during the AfD. As for Sandstein's actions in the Polandball issue, which seems to be what John Vandenberg is really more concerned about, the claim that he was showing an inadmissable battleground attitude is utter nonsense when you look at his actual, very measured and balanced, comments in that DRV. Finally, the "warning", whether logged or not, was also out of process. A "warning" under DS means that I, an administrator, will hand out a block or topic ban to you, the person I am warning, if you repeat the behaviour I am warning you over. Does John Vandenberg seriously believe he would be entitled to block Sandstein if he did a G5 speedy like this again in the future? That beggars belief. Even if John Vandenberg had legitimate reasons to be concerned over Sandstein's actions, then his recourse would be not to impose "sanctions" on him, but to ask Arbcom to review Sandstein's actions; that, however, is not in any way inside the scope of what the DS are about, and therefore also doesn't belong in the DS logs. Fut.Perf. 09:14, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Comment by Neotarf

This request is eerily similar to this one made some time ago, where four editors were given "civility warnings" by Sandstein, apparently at random. The result of the clarification request was a delinking of the four names in the ARBATC case page. If any action other than delinking is recommended for the current situation, it would only be reasonable to revisit the other situation as well. —Neotarf (talk) 02:53, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Comment by Ncmvocalist

Perhaps AGK needs to take a step back and reconsider what it is that is being said rather than apparently typing rash replies. I am sure it would not be difficult to demonstrate how involved they have been in this "DS" rewrite project (on or off wiki), and maybe that is why he is naturally inclined to be defensive of it (even bordering what people term as ownership mentality - eg "I have spent hours editing this....").

I recall he previously said in relation to this topic (but on a separate matter) 'I will not have it said that any issue relating to DS has been rashly dismissed, particularly after an exhausting, year-long consultation. I'm sorry to have to point out that you are not coming in at the eleventh hour, but a year and a half late.' But the simple fact is, there is genuine concern or criticism regarding how convoluted and time-consuming the DS system is to the vast majority of users, and even if it is now two years later, I am sorry to say his replies below do seem to me to rashly dismiss those concerns ([1][2]) and are not consistent with what is expected here.

It is so patently obvious that a number of editors, administrators, and for that matter, former arbitrators and current arbitrators have in fact needed to take quite a bit of time to go through this 'system', and that it is by no means 'simple', 'easy to use', or 'working' by extension. Now that this reality is finally noted, I would suggest at least the rest of Committee rectifies the issue. It would be good if that happened. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:20, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

I too would repeat this comment by A Quest For Knowledge. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:44, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Discretionary sanctions alerts: Arbitrator views and discussion

  • When I get back from a trip on Monday, I will wade into the technicalities here. For now, I will simply note that Russavia is surely laughing his ass off at the drama he is causing here without even trying. Let's all try not to give him more reason to do so. Newyorkbrad (talk) 18:03, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
    • I spent the past half hour or so reading over the back-story to this request, and perhaps I am in the advanced stages of serving out my last term as an arbitrator, but I really wish I hadn't. Let's back up a step. "The purpose of Wikipedia is to create a high-quality encyclopedia, in an environment of collaboration and community among the contributors." The entire administrative apparatus, including "discretionary sanctions" and the arbitration process and the other WP: pages where some of us spend too much of our wikitime, is ancillary to the objectives of Wikipedia that brought us all here. Debating the rules of these administrative processes should not become, in intent or in effect, an end in itself. Put differently, if the bickering about the rule-sets governing administrative processes on Wikipedia has become more complicated than some of the real-world rule-sets that I interpret every day as a litigation attorney, something is wrong. The dispute, or set of disputes, crystalized in this request is so many levels removed from the purpose and objectives of Wikipedia that it is sad. Beyond that, I will leave sorting out the fine points here to my colleagues who were more active in the DS recodification project. Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:47, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
      • What? I do not think it fair to say that anyone in this request is requesting clarification with non-constructive motives. These editors have a legitimate need of a ruling here, and you cannot legitimately refuse to be understanding of that and still expect the project's administrators to do their job. AGK [•] 23:15, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
  • There is an alarming failure here to grasp the distinction between the two relevant procedural entities. Cautions or warnings are sanctions and need logged; alerts (previously known as notices) are not sanctions and carry no implicit accusation of guilt. These two used to be more or less the same thing. In the recent update of procedures, they were split off and it is wrong to interchange them. John Vandenberg needs to decide whether he wanted to caution and sanction Sandstein (it appears he did) or alert him. If it is the former, he should issue Sandstein with a hand-written caution (and delete the alert template, which he may not use for that purpose). If it is the latter, Sandstein is already aware per point II of the relevant procedure and he must not attempt to 're-alert' him. I accept JV's claim that he was not aware of the changes in procedure, but I would remind him and all administrators generally that, before engaging in this process, you must take five minutes to update yourself on these changes. If you do not, you can be sanctioned by the committee, and given that this process is hardly in its infancy you are likely to find the committee exercises this right.

    On the complaint of JV about Sandstein, my position is that it cannot be heard in this venue. With the procedural confusion clarified (not that there should have been any in the first place), I suggest JV take this complaint up, perhaps with a handful of other administrators, directly with Sandstein. Neither party appears to have made an adequate effort to resolve this together, despite, as administrators, being obliged to do so. Should those attempts prove futile, a proper case request should then be filed. AGK [•] 12:31, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

  • I essentially agree with AGK. Seraphimblade Talk to me 16:26, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
  • I also agree with AGK. T. Canens (talk) 20:00, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
  • As do I. WormTT(talk) 08:33, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
  • And I. GorillaWarfare (talk) 03:32, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
  • I do as well but it's frustrating the amount of time I had to spend, back several months ago, to get a solid grasp of how this system works. Brad makes a point: the system is quite complicated, and has become a bit of a self-contained beast. While I was able to pick it up, I'm afraid it would simply be incredibly daunting for any new user to navigate. NativeForeigner Talk 05:04, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
  • AGK summarises things well but makes one key mis-step. He asks that: "I would remind him and all administrators generally that, before engaging in this process, you must take five minutes to update yourself on these changes." The response by NativeForeigner and NYB show that the estimate of 'five minutes' to update oneself on these changes is a woeful underestimate. What is needed here is some feedback from newer admins on how easy it is to understand the system as it currently stands. It is also incredibly important that ordinary editors, especially those potentially facing sanctions, find the system easy to use. If the system fails that test, then it will be unfit for purpose. Carcharoth (talk) 02:08, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
  • @Carcharoth: DS is easy to understand, because we put months of effort into writing polished, clear documentation for it. NYB and NF are not good test cases: while voting earlier this year, they had to get to grips with both the new system and the changes made from the old system. Current administrators merely need to read and follow WP:AC/DS.

    More to the point, the new system is working. Let us leave it at that. AGK [•] 06:14, 25 November 2014 (UTC)


Motions

Motion for a standing procedure on arbitrator requests for self-assignment of CheckUser or Oversight permissions

Any current member in good standing[a] of the English Wikipedia Arbitration Committee may at any time receive access to the CheckUser and Oversight tools after making a request on the appropriate page, even if the member had not held one or both permissions previously. Such a request is to be considered authorised by the Arbitration Committee, within the scope of AP §1.1(5).

  1. ^ "good standing" is here defined as not suspended and not the subject of a current vote for suspension or removal from the Arbitration Committee, as discussed in AP §1.3.
For this motion there are 13 active arbitrators, so 7 support or oppose votes are a majority.
Support
  1. As proposer. LFaraone 11:17, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Motion withdrawn. There are other adequate solutions to the specific problem that motivated this motion. LFaraone 21:16, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
  1. Personally, I'd add, just to be on the safe side, "after making a request on the appropriate page" and without the need for any further formalities, but yes, this is a sound idea. Salvio Let's talk about it! 11:20, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
    I assume the Stewards would interpret "[…]request is […] authorized by the Arbitration Committee[…]" as "no additional questions or formalities are required. But if there's a way to refactor this to make it more clear, I'm all ears. LFaraone 14:48, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
  2. Yes, fine. (With a minor tweak from "policy" to "procedure" in the title),  Roger Davies talk 11:45, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
    Well, technically we can modify our "internal rules and procedures" (elsewhere called "processes") by motion, but casting this as "policy" speaks to me as something that would require modification to the Arbitration Policy, which is a very different process. LFaraone 14:48, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
  3. This has the potential to blow up in spectacular fashion in ways we have not tried to foresee, but I still cannot bring myself to vote against something that will dispense with more of the higher permissions bureaucracy that has creeped in during recent years. AGK [•] 13:10, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
# Beeblebrox (talk) 04:52, 21 November 2014 (UTC) switching to oppose, see below
Oppose
  1. Not sure about this. There are technical reasons why non-administrators cannot access the oversight tool, and I'm similarly not sure about non-administrators on the checkuser tool. That said, if a non-administrator has passed community muster to be elected to arbcom, they should be allowed the administrator flag for the duration of the time on the committee. As such, I cannot support as written - I would support the same with administrator flag (though I don't know how the community would feel about that), but otherwise it's not too onerous to work on a case by case basis. WormTT(talk) 14:01, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
    If there are technical restrictions to the utility of these tools to non-administrator arbitrators, I believe they can be worked around through requesting changes to the rights given by a group to include the minimum rights needed to use the tool. Specifically:
    • Oversight: Grant the delete, deletedhistory, deletedtext, deletelogentryt, undelete, suppressrevision, and viewsuppressed permissions to the Oversight group or create a new group for it.
    • Checkuser: Apart from not being able to block, I'm not convinced a change here would win anything.
    That said, there is a real justification for considering adminship proper for the duration of a non-Administrator, perhaps with AUSC-esque limits that they are discouraged from taking actions unrelated to functionary or committee work. LFaraone 14:48, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
    Definitely not keen on changing Oversight just for this hypothetical (for the time being) usercase. But thanks for the reply, I'll think on the matter. WormTT(talk) 15:04, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
  2. I understand why this is proposed and will not be upset if it passes. Routine motions and "paperwork" to approve routine things are annoying, as we were reminded this week. Moreover, if at any time the Arbitration Committee had reservations about one of its members' having the checkuser and/or oversight rights, that would be a bad situation because it would imply reservations about that member's having access to all the other non-public information that the arbitrators are privy to as well. Thus, in voting on candidates, the community should operate on the assumption that the elected arbitrators will receive these permissions on request, and that most of the arbitrators will request them. Nonetheless, although it's a close call, I'm opposing this blanket grant for three reasons. First, it is at least theoretically possible that a future Committee might not want to confer the permissions on each and every arbitrator. Second, we have the uncertainty about whether non-administrator arbitrators could be granted oversight as a technical matter without also being granted adminship (which they should be, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion). And third, it's not 100% clear to me that the stewards would click the button in (say) 2015 to grant CU and OS to a group of newly elected arbitrators whose identity was not yet known to the Committee that passed this motion in 2014. If they require additional confirmations at that time, the result would be greater bureaucracy rather than less. Thus, while I'm open to persuasion, my instinct is to leave things the way they are now. Newyorkbrad (talk) 14:41, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
  3. Am opposing this as unnecessary, and also per the concerns raised by Risker, NYB, and others. For both my terms on the Arbitration Committee I took up the CU and OS tools at the start of my terms and handed (will hand) them back at the end of the terms. I didn't use them to take logged actions, but they were there to be used if needed (for checking evidence submissions and to verify logs mainly, but potentially to help with emergency uses and backlogs). Handling things this way is better than the less efficient and more time-wasting method of handing them out to some arbs and not others and then having multiple motions over the following year to approve the grants of the tools to those that didn't take them up at the time. Carcharoth (talk) 16:17, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
  4. I support the spirit of this motion, which was simply intended to eliminate needless process. However, this is a situation that is probably going to be pretty rare (although an arb who is currently in the middle of being suspended suddenly asking for these tools seems like a way, way more rare scenario) and the benefit frankly is not worth the hassle. Thanks for trying, Lafarone. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:50, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
  5. Although I think this does make some sense, I also recognize the concerns mentioned below. This is such a rare occurrence, and since people have expressed concern about potential edge cases, I'd rather just have the Committee pass a motion on a case-by-case basis if needed. GorillaWarfare (talk) 17:44, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
  6. Per GW, NYB. NativeForeigner Talk 00:59, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Abstain
Recuse

Discussion by arbitrators

Community comments

  • A few thoughts: I'm not sure that a steward who is unfamilar with enwiki politics wants to figure out whether an ArbCom member is in "good standing" or not. It's probably best to just explicitly say "X is granted CU/OS" each year like has been done in the past. Also, this would mean that CU/OS could not be handed out until January 1, which would be a problem if you were planning on handing it out soon after the elections like last year. (Yes, I know I'm being annoying, but stewards have to be careful on enwiki, or they risk being yelled at for their mistake by Wikimedia's largest wiki). --Rschen7754 03:17, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
    • (For clarity, I don't act on enwiki rights requests, as enwiki is a home wiki per the m:Stewards policy). --Rschen7754 06:20, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
      • I think the definition in point (a) is unambiguous and easy enough to determine that this won't be a big problem. I am sure that any arb who gets themselves into enough trouble to no longer be "in good standing" will be being watched, closely, by a crowd of people, who will be only too happy to explain the situation to any steward. Lankiveil (speak to me) 11:30, 20 November 2014 (UTC).
        • I was under the impression that all Arbcom members, both current and former, had both permissions automatically? And I don't mean "unquestioningly granted upon request"; I thought that both permissions were given to you as soon as you joined the committee. Nyttend (talk) 12:09, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
          • No, the permissions are granted upon request. Although most arbitrators do choose to ask for the tools and it is routine for ArbCom to make a cumulative request to the stewards at the beginning of each term, some other arbs, for whatever reason, choose not to ask. After all, they are not strictly necessary, especially when an editor does not have any previous experience with it. Take CU, for instance, an arbitrator who has never used the tool may rely on his more experienced colleagues (which is something we generally do anyway; we don't run 15 independent checks, when someone appeals) and, so, consider access to the tool superfluous. Salvio Let's talk about it! 12:35, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
            • Thanks for the clarification. I, for one, wouldn't mind if we had some way of granting "the administrator flag for the duration of the time on the committee"; being elected to Arbcom is vastly more of a responsibility than ordinary adminship, so in my mind, it would be thoroughly unhelpful if we required a non-admin arbitrator to stay that way, or if we required an arbitrator to go through RFA just so that said arbitrator could function normally. Since former arbitrators get to keep their CU/O rights, I wouldn't mind if the admin flag were retained after said arbitrator left the committee. Nyttend (talk) 12:53, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
              • I entirely agree. The scrutiny an arbcom candidate is subjected to far exceed that of an admin candidate, in my opinion. But I don't think ArbCom can do that because it would require a policy change, which is outside our province... Salvio Let's talk about it! 13:05, 20 November 2014 (UTC)
There are a number of issues here:
  1. Is this a policy change? The Committee is charged with the responsibility to approve and remove access to (i) CheckUser and Oversight tools, a blanket approval does not, in my view, fit with this.
  2. Consider, for example, we currently have a Wikipediocracy member standing. Even if he gets in there may be considerable concerns with him having CheckUser and/or Oversight. Remember the poll is predicated on existing policy.
  3. There is value in having to say to the committee "I want these bits". Arbitrators may in general prefer not to have them, but if it is automatically granted on request to 'Crats, tend to get them enabled for a particular problem, and keep them through inertia.
  4. Note also that if there is a committee process there is scope for community objection.
All the best: Rich Farmbrough00:54, 21 November 2014 (UTC).
There's no policy against a Wikipedia member using any other web forum, including Wikipediocracy. Lacking specific evidence of off-wiki conduct by an specific individual, such guilt-by-innuendo statements are not appropriate here. NE Ent 01:15, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Support per nom. NE Ent 01:15, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Aggre with that, and I would add that there is already community scrutiny and input in the form of the arbcom elections. The community has therefore already said that any sitting arb is entitled to these tools. The committee should not even be considering overiding the election results, so even though we are technically the gatekeepers of CU/OS any arb asking for it has to be granted itm making the whole motion we just did a pointless rubber stamp. Beeblebrox (talk) 04:51, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
The community has said no such thing, the way forward here is to change the policy after the current election. Not to mess with Arbcom procedure to pervert the policy. The power would not be vested in the committee if it was intended to be a rubber stamp. All the best: Rich Farmbrough20:25, 23 November 2014 (UTC).
  • Question: Are the CU/OS rights granted under this motion permanent, for a fixed duration, or valid only while the person serves on the ArbCom? Abecedare (talk) 05:12, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
    • Under the present system, the CU/OS rights are granted permanently (subject to any activity rules, misconduct, etc). Thryduulf (talk) 09:00, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Concern: Needs a mandatory waiting period before approval, to avoid you guys on your secret mailing list having a discussion about booting one of your members for, say, leaking the mailing list, and then them going and requesting CU to release CU information on people they don't like. Hipocrite (talk) 14:10, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
  • How would a steward verify whether a vote for suspension is currently taking place or whether the member is already suspended? Snowolf How can I help? 21:13, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
If the arb was already suspended there would certainly be an announcement on the noticeboard, and they would be removed from the list of committee members on the main arbcom page. Otherwise I should think a simple ping to our mailing list pointiong out the request would be more than enough. Frankly an arb being suspended is a vanishingly rare event and probably not worth much worry. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:05, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
If stewards are supposed to privately contact the Arbitration Committee to verify that a member is not undergoing suspension proceedings, then we should stick to the current system where the Arbitration Committee sorts these things about before the stewards being poked. Otherwise, you should make a public announcement somewhere when proceeding starts. Snowolf How can I help? 01:18, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
@Newyorkbrad: In response to your third concern, I think the only way to know would be asking at m:SN, for the opinion of some non-enwiki stewards. I certainly have an opinion on the matter, but then I am also certainly not neutral in the matter. --Rschen7754 02:20, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Given that there have been votes to suspend Arbcom members, but not all of them have been public, how would stewards know that there was not a private suspension vote occurring? From my experience of stewards, I think they will be expecting confirmation from Arbcom that the user meets the requirements to be of good standing. Also, as NYB points out, a future Arbitration Committee (or even the community, as is contemplated by the Checkuser and Oversight global policies) may decide to move to a different method of determining who should have access to these tools. Arbcom might also want to consider, historically, the problems associated with people coming and going with advanced permissions, and even more seriously might want to consider how many cases they have worked on in the past year that genuinely required the use of checkuser or oversight tools. Risker (talk) 01:36, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
    • If the problem is that you want to prevent an arb whose suspension is being discussed from getting access to the tools, then the quickest solution would be for a steward to just send an e-mail to the list prior to actioning the request. Right now, a motion is required, which, in turn, requires a majority of non-recused arbs to support it and, quite frankly, is a waste of time. Salvio Let's talk about it! 11:24, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
      • Making someone else confirm the intentions of the Arbitration Committee is absurd and inconsiderate of the value of the time of other volunteers in the movement. Stewards have better and more useful things to do than email Arbcom; if Arbcom can't get its act together sufficiently to manage advanced permissions for its members in a quick and efficient way, that's Arbcom's problem, not the problem of the stewards. It's not about a quick solution, it's about not dumping your responsibilities on someone else. Risker (talk) 15:46, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
        • What if the reply from Arbcom comes from the user that requested his permission? What if, as it happens, the Arbitration Committee takes a long time to reply, or even forgets to reply to such an email? In essence, the arbitration committee members who are voting in favour of this motion are requiring that somebody other than the requesting user validate the request. Why can't it be the case that an arbitrator different from the requesting one has to file the request on Meta or, as it is now, that an arbitrator speaking on behalf of the committee files the request? This motion's only effect would be a slight time-saving for the Arbitrators at the expense of unclarity and extra work on Meta... Snowolf How can I help? 17:03, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
          • Yes, this basically dumps extra work from the arbitrators to the stewards, at the expense of transparency. This is a bad idea. --Rschen7754 17:42, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
            • In addition to this, in the future it's probably best to encourage all arbitrators to accept CU/OS in the beginning, as it's when they accept it later when the extra work occurs (for both arbs and stewards). When we grant CU, we have to get their email address (and verify it), and add them to checkuser-l and the CU wiki and IRC channel, and when we grant OS, we have to make sure they are added to the OTRS queue (which arbitrators have frequently forgotten to request). It's easier to do it all at once, especially now that Risker (who serves as a CUwiki crat/mailing list admin) is no longer on the committee. (Removing permissions isn't as bad, they just get blocked on the CUwiki and dropped from the list). --Rschen7754 20:01, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
  • I think this is getting blown all out of proportion. This was simply intended to eliminate a seemingly needless layer of process, whereby someone who was already entitled to CU/OS by dint of having been elected by the community still had to be subject to a confirmation vote before the stewards would flip the switch. All this worry about suspension proceedings is much ado about nothing in my opinion. There is no provision here requiring the stewards to double check because it doesn't seem necessary. Someone asked how they would know, so I gave an answer, but the motion as worded does not require it at all. Stewards can just go ahead and do it, secure in the knowledge that it is arbcom's responsibility to inform them if they should not. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:26, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
    • Nothing requires the stewards to double-check anything that they do. It's only that they are the ones on the hook if it turns out that they screwed up, and they could be voted out in the next elections. --Rschen7754 19:30, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
    • The crux here is the words seemingly needless. All the best: Rich Farmbrough20:30, 23 November 2014 (UTC).
  • Actually, on reviewing the global checkuser policy and global oversight policy, it appears that Arbcom does not have the authority to grant unrestricted access to CU/OS to any group of editors (including members of its own committee) in a prospective way. Both policies state, with identical wording: "On wikis with an arbitration committee elected with 25–30 editors' approval, users may also be appointed by the arbitration committee (unless the local community prefers independent elections). After agreement, a member of the arbitration committee should place a request on Steward requests/Permissions." There is no provision for access other than by direct Arbcom appointment. I suggest the motion be withdrawn. Risker (talk) 21:07, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
  • The global policy linked by Risker appears pretty clear; I don't understand why more care was not taken to ensure this was authorised in the first place, but moving forward, withdrawing the motion seems very sensible. Ncmvocalist (talk) 15:50, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
  • @Risker: That isn't quite right. Appointments that would be made once this motion in effect would not violate the clause you cite in any way I can see. It may help if you do a word-by-word analysis of the Meta sentence, as I don't see the clash. AGK [•] 06:25, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
  • The way I read it, the appointment must be authorized by the *currently sitting* arbitration committee. Arbcom, as it currently exists, has just over five weeks left in its term. After that point, this current Arbcom no longer has authorization to appoint anyone to anything, but this motion is essentially appointing all future arbitrators. Come January 1 of each year, there will be a new Arbcom, and only that Arbcom can make appointments, and only for the duration of its term in office. Both must follow the required global policy; local policy cannot override global policy, so the appointment must be made by the currently sitting Arbcom, and the minimal procedure must be followed, with evidence that the appointment *has* indeed been made (thus the current standard of a link to an announcement on WP:ACN). You may not be aware that historically there were a few problems with individual arbitrators (and in at least two cases, former arbitrators) posting "appointments" that were not, in fact, approved by the committee as a whole or were otherwise deficient, which created additional workload for stewards; thus, they quite reasonably insisted that Arbcom follow the global policy to the letter. There is never an "emergency" that requires immediate access to the tools for an individual arbitrator who otherwise doesn't already hold them; it should be no problem to obtain the requisite 50% +1 support from colleagues in, say, 48-72 hours via the mailing list. Alternately, if there is a need for immediate access to certain information, all arbitrators are authorized to receive case-specific non-public information (including, for example, oversighted edits or checkuser results), and that information can be shared by another arbitrator or suitably qualified functionary. Risker (talk) 15:03, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Requests for enforcement


Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Mooretwin

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user 
Mooretwin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)Mooretwin (talk) 13:11, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Sanction being appealed 
Indefinite topic ban on articles, discussions, and other content related to The Troubles, the Ulster banner and British baronets, imposed at [[3]]. The decision was imposed on 10 February 2012, six months passed on 10 August 2012. I appealed on 9 October 2012. The appeal was not upheld, though was relaxed by the removal of the British baronets topic ban. Since then, I have not made any subsequent appeal until now, over two years since the previous appeal and some two years and ten months since the ban was imposed.
Administrator imposing the sanction 
T. Canens (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
Notification of that administrator 
[4]

Statement by Mooretwin

I have abided by the topic ban for nearly three years now, and I would like it to be lifted. That is a long time during which to reflect and I think the period demonstrates my patience and acceptance of the sanction. I have not been involved in any disputes, edit wars, incivility or any other misdemeanours during that time. While in the period up to about five years ago I was involved in a number of such disputes, I had not been involved in any in the two years prior to the incident that led to this ban. That incident was in the "heat of the moment" and, I argued at the time and still do, was the result of extreme provocation. I should like to think, given the conduct in the two years previous and the nearly three years since, that it would be accepted that the incident does not represent a fair reflection of my contributions to Wikipedia, and thus that an indefinite ban is no longer a reasonable sanction.

At the time of my first appeal, editors sought evidence of collaborative editing. However, I made the point that my inability to edit articles in the only real area of my expertise (Northern Ireland) meant that I was unable to edit collaboratively. This remains the case, although recently, for example, I have engaged constructively at WP:CRICKET in relation to achieving consensus for a new notability criterion.

@EdJohnston: I'm afraid, as a result of the ban, I haven't been reading or following any very closely, so I'm not up to speed on what needs work. There is currently no particular article that I intend to work on immediately. I don't have a lot of time, to be honest, but I would still like the freedom to be able to participate as and when I think I can offer something useful. At one time, I was in the process of creating articles on historical members of the Northern Ireland Parliament missing from the encyclopaedia, adding categories for government ministers and so on, but that all had to stop. Eventually I'd like to complete that. A few random examples of articles I've created are: Basil Kelly, Colum Eastwood, David Graham Shillington, Edmund Warnock. I also won't pretend that I wouldn't wish to be able to add value to some of the more "controversial" articles on occasion without resorting to edit wars or confrontation: I've certainly learned my lesson on that, and would give an undertaking to tread carefully and respectfully. Mooretwin (talk) 23:05, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
In response to the comments by Cailil, I would like to make the following points:
  • It is factually incorrect to say that I have made "only 2 talk page comments in 2014", as the talk page of WP:CRICKET, which I noted in my statement above, will testify.
  • If there is a genuine desire to see me collaborate productively, why not lift the ban partially, say, for six month so that I may participate in talk page discussions but without being able to edit articles? As I have said consistently, I cannot demonstrate productive editing when I am banned from the only articles in relation to which I have any expertise to offer. Mooretwin (talk) 22:36, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
It seems to me that the suggestion from Cailil is that I should deliberately seek out articles about which I have no particular expertise or interest, but about which there is some kind of dispute or issue - and thus an opportunity to intervene constructively - for the purpose merely of demonstrating that I can work collegially. This appears to be the only way I will convince Cailil that the ban should be relaxed, never mind lifted. I have already made the suggestion above that the ban be relaxed to allow me to edit Talk pages, while keeping the ban on editing articles in place. Surely this is the best (and obvious?) way of allowing me to demonstrate the ability to work collegially? Mooretwin (talk) 10:56, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by T. Canens

Statement by (involved editor 1)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Mooretwin

AFAIK, you've had no problems in other areas during the 2+ years, thus a demonstration of your new approach. IMHO, your topic-ban should be lifted. Afterall, it was placed as a preventative measure & since there's nothing to prevent anymore.....? :) GoodDay (talk) 17:38, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

If Mooretwin's appeal is denied on the basis of his not having caused problems, because his sanctions worked. Would that not be like saying "we want you to proove you can behave without your handcuffs, but we want you to do this while wearing your handcuffs"? GoodDay (talk) 06:38, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

I am very troubled by Cailil's comments below, especially the implication that because there has been no trouble from Mooretwin in the past couple of years, it means that the restriction must therefore be working, and that in itself is a reason for the restriction to stay in place. That is not the purpose of placing a restriction on any editor, and is an abuse of the restriction process in general. In good faith, an absence of comments on Talk pages might mean that Mooretwin recognizes that this is a potentially troublesome area for him and stays away and that is exactly the behaviour we should applaud. Enough time has passed in Mooretwin's case to lift the restrictions and let him, and everyone else, reassess his involvement with the project. If his behaviour should prove troublesome in the future, then we have lots of mechanisms and processes by which to take further action. -- HighKing++ 15:48, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

@Cailil, the question isn't whether Mooretwin can edit with collegiality across a wide range of articles. Even had Mooretwin edited other articles, the question the community needs to answer is "Has Mooretwin recognized his previous disruptive behaviour - and this is a crucial bit - in his proven area of expertise or interest, and - this is the critical bit - is now prepared to accept community standards of behaviour." To use your own analogy, Mooretwin shouldn't have to drink in every other pub in town before he can return to his favorite pub. That is not the purpose of sanctions, and is unfair, especially for editors that have a specific area of expertise and/or interest. -- HighKing++ 02:08, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

IMHO, Mooretwin has the ability to reform his behaviour in the area he's restricted from. Give him the chance to proove himself. Should he mess up again? then merely re-instate his restriction. What's the harm in placing him on probation? PS: Anyways, that's all I've left to say, here. GoodDay (talk) 19:22, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

I wonder if it might be possible, probably with the consent of T. Canens and the applicant, to institute some sort of discretionary sanctions on the editor in the relevant fields for at least a given period of time instead? Such discretionary sanctions might be able to expire after a given period of time if there are no substantive issues during a predetermined time period, and might, at least potentially, allow for the replacement of the topic ban if during that period of time the concerns seem to resurface. John Carter (talk) 19:48, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

I believe that is a more sensible approach. Putting in place a process whereby Mooretwin can engage once again with the community in the relevant fields and can be monitored for a period of time is far more likely to result in an opportunity whereby Mooretwin can demonstrate he can collegially engage towards a consensus. -- HighKing++ 02:08, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

With respect to Cailil, his analogy with the pubs is kind of like suggesting that someone who's been barred from a pub should head off and prove that they can behave in a knitting circle, even though they've no interest in the latter. Mooretwin has edited other pages, mostly on sports, without any obvious issues. The vast majority of editors on this project will have specialist areas which interest them. Besides sports, Mooretwin's is obviously Northern Ireland related, so they do seem to be in a bit of a Catch-22. There has to be a more practical way of doing this. Putting Mooretwin on probation and only allowing them to edit talk pages at first, followed by a 0RR on articles, would be a more practical way of dealing with this. Valenciano (talk) 19:26, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by Mooretwin

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
  • Mooretwin, can you give an example of a TROUBLES-related article you would work on if this ban was lifted? What kind of material would you add? EdJohnston (talk) 17:25, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Nobody has advocated keeping the ban, so I am planning to lift it. Be aware that, if there is further trouble, any single admin has authority under Discretionary sanctions to reimpose the ban. So please be careful. EdJohnston (talk) 18:07, 29 November 2014 (UTC) Striking my comment after reading Cailil's observation below. EdJohnston (talk) 18:35, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
  • I agree that it can be lifted per EdJohnston, though I'd prefer a comment by @Timotheus Canens: or a few more comments from admins (to meet the WP:AC/DS requirement for a "substantial" consensus. Callanecc (talkcontribslogs) 12:23, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
  • I would hope that ArbCom and the community would accept unanimity as sufficient for a substantial consensus, even when the numbers are relatively. There's just no way to read the will of the silent majority. But just to help out a bit: my reading is the Mooretwin has been abiding by his topic ban and continuing to edit in non-disruptive ways (not just trying to "wait it out", as some have done, and which just doesn't work). Given that a substantial amount of time has passed, I would agree to lift this ban. Though I also agree with EdJohnston's reminder that the ban can be reimposed and agree that Mooretwin should approach this area with caution. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 03:46, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Given that the whole substance of this ban is to do with interaction with others in the Troubles area I am far more skeptical than my colleagues above. It was this diff at the original AE (one filed by Mooretwin against another user) that resulted in his ban.
    The whole problem here is Mooretwin's history of not being able to work with others (not any bad editing in articles per se) and using the DR system to attack others. Despite the reformed gnomish edits to various articles Mooretwin has made only 2 talk page comments in 2014 (1 in February and 1 in May). The last one before that was July 2013[5]. In more than 2 years the last substantial interaction/converstaion this user had was with anyone on WP was with a bot that they swore at & Cloudz679 who was biten for reminding Mooretwin not to WP:BITE [6] in April 2013.
    I would suggest that lifting in these circumstances is looking for trouble. A clear road map was given to Mooretwin at the last AE[7] (which was in 2013 not in 2012 as Mooretwin says above, the 2012 AE appeal relaxed the ban from the Baronets[8]). That road-map was not followed.
    To my mind if this user can edit productively with the topic ban in place and has no compelling reason to edit in the area and has shown no movement on the roadmap then there's no reason to lift it. Simply put the ban is working - for everyone (Mooretwin included he hasn't been blocked or sanctioned in years), thus in light of this I cannot endorse lifting this ban--Cailil talk 17:41, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
    @GoodDay - until recently the big red box at the top of the bag explained that ArbCom rulings and their enforcement are coercive rather than punitive. Nevertheless ArbCom remedies are not preventative in the same way blocks are under the normal rules. Hence, AE decisions take so much time, consideration, and have so many rules attached--Cailil talk 18:08, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
    @Mooretwin - I'm sorry I missed those edits Mooretwin. Yes you did make 4 comments to that page in November 2014 (all related to the 1 topic or "Irish cricket clubs: notability"[9]) (3 of which are very short). All of which look very positive however I can't find any others before that (up to April 2013), have I missed them? If I haven't missed anything then this evidence is unfortunately too slim for an appeal of a ban about interpersonal conduct. The problem for me is quite simple, *you* don't need to edit in WP:TROUBLES articles to demonstrate reform - it actually might encourage old behaviour. If you can show change by continuing to collaborate and to do so consistently then your ban will be lifted, however coming back to AE every so often but avoiding engagement with others outside this topic area is the definition of "waiting a ban out" - which wont work with an indefinite sanction (it has nothing to do with time and everything to do with behaviour)--Cailil talk 19:03, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
    @GoodDay & HighKing - If Mooretwin's appeal is denied on the basis of his not having caused problems, because his sanctions worked and the implication that because there has been no trouble from Mooretwin in the past couple of years, it means that the restriction must therefore be working.
    Don't misrepresent what I wrote here[10]. My reason for declining is that: "if this user can edit productively with the topic ban in place and has no compelling reason to edit in the area and has shown no movement on the roadmap then there's no reason to lift it".
    The handcuffs analogy is a specious. The actual situation here is like telling someone: "you're barred from Barney Kiernan's pub in Dublin for causing trouble and we wont let you back in until you show you can behave yourself in other pubs in the City, of which there are over 1,000". Except here on wikipedia there are millions of places MooreTwin can go and can demonstrate reform. The constant refrain from single purpose nationalist accounts that: "I need to edit in the ***enter whatever Nationalist dispute area here*** topic, these are the only articles I care/know about!!" is in fact a clear articulation of their problem - an obsession with one topic area, and a refusal to substantially edit anything else.
    FYI hyperbolic comments like these are among the least convincing ways to get anyone to change their opinion--Cailil talk 19:03, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
    @Mooretwin - No I am not saying to seek out other articles "where there is a dispute", I'm suggesting you edit generally and collaborate generally. The idea that a topic banned editor edit other areas is the only thing they can do. Also if you have "no particular article that [you] intend to work on immediately", then what exactly is the hurry? Why not work on the cricket articles or football articles more and bring one to a higher quality. That kind of concrete evidence is convincing. Also I take it from your lack of reply to my question that I didn't miss any further edits?

    @John Carter - I see your point but if the problem here is a single purpose mentality then what purpose does feeding that focus on one area of WP achieve - is it not counter productive? For me this was would have to be limited to 1 page in WP:TROUBLES first and then if Mooretwin were able to help improve it substantially and collaborate substantially at that stage my mind would be changed (but I remain unconvinced that this is a good idea until a more diverse editing pattern emerges)--Cailil talk 12:40, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

BoboMeowCat

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning BoboMeowCat

User who is submitting this request for enforcement 
MastCell (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) 05:38, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested 
BoboMeowCat (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Search DS alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Abortion#Discretionary sanctions :
Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 

This request concerns tendentious editing by BoboMeowCat at Becky Bell (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), an article about a teenager "who died in 1988 from a botched abortion because she was afraid to get her parents' consent, as the state law required." Bell's parents subsequently became highly visible critics of parental-notification laws.

  1. BoboMeowCat has a history of tendentious editing on abortion-related topics, and has previously been blocked for edit-warring on the Becky Bell article.
  2. BoboMeowCat removes 6 reliable sources attesting to the fact that Bell died of complications of an illegal abortion.
  3. On the talk page, BoboMeowCat claims "it's not a forgone conclusion that Becky Bell had an illegal unsafe back alley abortion" and that she may have instead died from a naturally occurring miscarriage.
Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any 
  1. Previously blocked for violating 1RR on abortion-related articles.
If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
Additional comments by editor filing complaint 

In a nutshell, this editor a) denies that Bell had an illegal abortion after b) conveniently removing a huge number of reliable sources attesting that she had an illegal abortion. This is both poor editing (in that there is no justification given for removing numerous reliable sources) and cynically tendentious gamesmanship, in that she's removing sources in order to advance her personal viewpoint more easily. In light of this editor's prior history of edit-warring in this topic area, I am requesting a topic ban for tendentious editing.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested 
Notified

Discussion concerning BoboMeowCat

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by BoboMeowCat

I don’t have a lot of time to respond right now, but would appreciate any advice and any input from uninvolved admins/editors on how or where I have made error editing this article and any input on what would be a better editing approach in future. I'm a little confused by this complaint, because I’ve only edited Becky Bell one time in the past 7 months. That one edit was to revert to an earlier version by editor GodBlessYou2, who the complaining editor, MastCell, appears to be involved in a slow longterm edit war with. I found GodBlessYou2’s arguments regarding the neutrality of his version convincing on the talk page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Becky_Bell#More_Neutral_Introduction and it appeared to me GodBlessYou2 had talk page support for his version being supported on talk page by 131.109.225.24. Regarding removal of sources, for that revert, I actually used the undo button to restore to the version by GodBlessYou2, and was doing so based on the neutrality of the text. I had no intention to remove any sources. I can understand a complaint regarding unintentional removal of sources, and will certainly be more careful to look at references, as well as text, when using the undo button in future.

Regarding my block on Becky Bell 7 months ago, that was the result of a content dispute with MastCell on that same article. I was blocked for violating 1RR. I was a new editor at the time, and I honestly did not understand that when content is being disputed, and you are leaving that disputed content completely alone, and there is other dubious content (regarding allegations of attempted murder which does not seem properly referenced) [11], that you have to wait 24 hours to delete that different content, if the article is under 1RR sanctions. MastCell reported me to the edit warring noticeboard for this, and I was blocked. I was actually very confused by this block and the revert rules in general and sought out advice and clarification at the teahouse as a new editor and on EdJohnston’s talk page was educated on what counts as a revert and have not since made the same mistake on abortion related or any other articles. [12]

Additional statement by MastCell

@BoboMeowCat: You claimed that Bell didn't have an illegal abortion, and then immediately went and removed all of the sources stating that she had an illegal abortion. Do you at least understand why that sequence of actions might concern another editor?

Your justification seems to be that you didn't look at the content of the edit you were reverting, and didn't realize you were removing a bunch of reliable sources (all of which happened to contradict the argument you were making on the talkpage). Even if true, that seems like an aggravating rather than mitigating factor, because it suggests that you're reverting just for the sake of reverting, without actually considering the content or sources. Your responsibility for your edits is just as great, if not greater, when reverting another editor as when making a de novo edit. You don't get a free pass on the substance of your edit just because you used the "undo" button. MastCell Talk 17:51, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Additional statement by BoboMeowCat

The version I reverted to one time by GodBlessYou2 contained reliable sources saying that Bell died of an illegal abortion. It's not true that I removed all of the sources that state Bell had illegal abortion, although I readily admit that removing any RS references was a careless error on my part, which I will be vigilant to avoid making in the future. I reverted based on the article text comparison between the two versions, with GodBlessYou2's text seeming more neutral and also based on what seemed to me to be compelling talk page arguments by GodBlessYou2 and what appeared to me to be talk page consensus, which MastCell seemed to be reverting against. I have previously asked uninvolved editors to advise above on a better courses of action for future editing, and would like to ask again here. Please refer to talk page discussion here: [13]. Also, please note that MastCell’s comment about adding additional references was made after my one and only edit during this content dispute. To further clarify what occurred, I've had this page on my watch list for several months and have noticed a slow back and forth edit war between GodBlessYou2 and MastCell on the Becky Bell article. Talk page indicated GodBlessYou2 said he was trying to make article more neutral and had concerns that reliable sourcing that argued it was possible that Bell had a natural miscarriage were not being neutrally represented and that there remains debate that parental consent laws caused Bell’s death. I found these arguments by GodBlessYou2 particularly compelling [14] [15] [16] Additionally, I noticed that 131.109.225.24 indicated agreement with GodBlessYou2 and that he was concerned that MastCell was purposely adding misleading information to the article. [17] [18] [19]

I then contacted GodBlesYou2 on his talk page to provide him with an additional reference for this article. [20] For a bit of back story, several months ago, Auric pinged me regarding a reference for an additional reliable source on case from the Cleveland Plain Dealer which apparently reported Bell's best friend, Heather Clark, indicated Bell did not have an illegal abortion, saying the two of them had actually made plans to obtain a legal abortion in Kentucky (where no parental consent was needed) but Bell became ill and died before that occurred. Auric provided me with the full reference for this article from the Cleveland Plain Dealer by referring me to this website [21](relevant content about 1/4 of the way down). The article in question is old (1990) and not available online and would require trip to library and I haven't gotten around to getting it as I said I would, so I left a note on GodBlessYou2's talk page, passing on the information regarding the Cleveland Plain Dealer article, in case he had time or interest in pursuing it. GodBlessYou2 replied that his concern mainly was that the 60 minutes reference was not being adequately represented. [22] I then carefully read the talk page and the text of the two versions and reverted one time and one time only, which I admit carelessly resulted in removal of references. I have no intention to continue to remove references, I am committed to editing more carefully when using undo button and would like advice on how best to proceed from here as there is currently a content dispute on that article. I have previously brought content dispute concerns from other articles to the NPOV noticeboard, but have had limited luck because of limited outside input (seems involved parties often just follow to noticeboard with little to no outside input) I’ve never used formal dispute resolution and am not entirely clear how it works and if it would be a good avenue in this case. Any outside advice would be appreciated.--BoboMeowCat (talk) 00:48, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by 131.109.225.24

This is an example of the arrogant bullying and intimidation of a relatively new editor by a cliquish and highly biased, but well-connected administrator. If any participant in this article should be a candidate for punishment by discretionary sanctions it should be MastCell. Here on the Talk page [23] she made a far from comprehensive response to points brought up in the discussion. Eleven minutes later [24] she substantially changed the articles wording (to the "stable" earlier version) "per talk" as if her preferred version had been reached by consensus. She then has the monumental chutzpah to recommend BoboMeowCat for punitive sanctions because he had the common sense to revert her massive changes pending further discussion. Bobo should get one of those barnstars I see, instead. As for MastCell, at the very least, a well earned rest from administrative duties. 131.109.225.24 (talk) 19:52, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by ArtifexMayhem

The editor does not seem to understand (or possibly doesn't agree with) our policies on reliable sources, neutral point of view, and notability (film). For example,

April
  • Edits, beginning here, to the Becky Bell article that place undue emphasis on a Baltimore Sun op-ed by James A. Miller, then director of research for Human Life International, and an article on LifeNews.com by the founder and Editor of LifeNews, Steven Ertelt[25].
  • In response to the Becky Bell article being tagged for the use of unreliable sources the editor either failed or refused to understand the policy based explanations provided on the talk page.[26]
November
  • Creation[27] of 22 Weeks which relies excessively on unreliable or partisan sources (e.g., The Christian Post, WorldNetDaily, LifeSiteNews). [28]
  • In response to the 22 weeks article being tagged for notability and the use of unreliable as well as partisan sources the editor, once again, fails or refused to understand the policy based explanations provided on the talk page.[29]
  • On the Becky Bell talk page, the editor claims that, "According to the references currently in article, some medical experts believe Becky Bell's septic abortion was the result of this sort of natural miscarriage."[30], when in fact we have no reliable sources that support such a claim (at least not without violating WP:GEVAL).

This is very similar to the type of conduct[31][32] that led to topic bans[33][34] in the ARBCOM case. I second MastCell's request for a topic ban per the above, and based on the intent of the principles, findings, and remedies given in the original case. — ArtifexMayhem (talk) 01:05, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Maunus

I am in the mood to make a statement so I will: I have absolutely no knowledge about this case, but would like to add that I just watched a 1971 debate between Noam Chomsky and Michel Foucault and it seems to me that FOucault was right in arguing that there is no basis for claims about a universal morality. Nonetheless, morality is contingent on social forces and power relations, which means that a consensus on wikipedia does have its own moral force that it can bring to bear on any wikipedia user. So this means that this online kangaroo court can validly claim jurisdiction over any matters related to wikipedia editing, including the antics of users by the name of BoboMeowCat.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 01:20, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by NE Ent

BoboMeowCat asked Drmies for protocol regarding AE filings [35]. Drmies pinged me. Reviewing the editor's contribution history I'm seeing a green editor perhaps a little too eager to work in controversial areas given their experience level. I followed up on their talk page [36]. They've agreed not to edit the article talk but confine their activities to the talk page. This hopefully adequately address MastCell's concerns and will allow Wikipedia to further develop a new editor without requiring formal action on part of reviewing administrators. NE Ent 02:31, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

EdJohnston: given that the purpose of all dispute resolution mechanisms is to minimize disruption to mainspace, how will a formal ban be any more efficacious than BoboMeowCat simply not editing the article? NE Ent 20:54, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by GodBlessYou2

I'm only commenting because I saw a notification/alert/red flag at the top of my page stating my username had been mentioned in an Arbitration incident.

When I checked into it, I see that MastCell is trying to get BoboMeowCat sanctioned?? As far as I know, BoboMeowCat has not even been editing the Becky Bell article . . . at least not lately. I tried to correct some information a bit ago, but I ran into MastCell declaring that his slant on the article was more accurate than the facts represented in the sources. (See for example his insistence on using "unsafe abortion" in the lead though the medical term used in the autopsy was "septic abortion." He does not dispute that the official cause of death was septic abortion but he continues to revert my correction of the lead, bringing into conformity with the official cause of death, simply because he prefers the term unsafe abortion...or, possibly, because he may prefer to drive readers to the unsafe abortion link rather than the septic abortion link.)

It is my experience that MastCell has been uncooperative and has been policing this article to preserve his preferred slant.

Actually, I was surprised to see a comment from BoboMeowCat "congratulating" me after I made my first attempt to clarify the article. Perhaps he should instead have warned me that this was a contentious article which was being policed to enforce certain editor(s) slant.

After respectfully making my edits and moving to the talk page to discuss, MastCell said he wanted to bring in outside opinions. Fine.

But now I see he's trying to actually exclude an outside opinion, BoboMeowCat, precisely because that editor agrees with my recommendations for improving the article.

Talk about protectionism!

I don't know any details about BoboMeowCat's other activities or past activities, but he has not been a problem on the Becky Bell page since I tried to contribute to it. In my view, MastCell is the one trying to dominate the page rather than work toward edits which are clearly supported by the sources -- and one which properly identifies the persons whose opinions are being stated, rather than elevating opinions to factual statements. That isn't too much to ask. GodBlessYou2 (talk) 19:11, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Reading MastCell's original charge, he states that BobMeowCat's #1 offense is "In a nutshell, this editor a) denies that Bell had an illegal abortion . . ." I don't think anyone is denying that Bell may have had an illegal abortion, but a careful reading of all the sources shows that while her parents argued definitively that she had died of an illegal abortion, the autopsy found no signs of instruments being used for an illegal abortion and did not exclude either a self-abortion or a miscarriage as possible causes of the septic abortion. That's three possible causes of the septic abortion. See the recent reference info provided by Ca2James,on the talk page reporting that the pathologist believed an illegal abortion was the most likely cause, but lacking any physical evidence to support that conclusion, he could not rule out a self abortion or miscarriage. He even states, no one knows because "the answers went to the grave with the little girl. Given this irrefutable "agnosticism" of the pathologist (and many others) regarding the "actual cause" of death, it is hardly unfair of BoboMeowCat or any other editor to insist that the lead and content of the article should clarify that all three causes of death were postulated and supported by various parties. What is undisputed, by all but MassCall, is that the official cause of death was septic abortion. I really don't see how MastCall has an argument against these clarifications which are entirely supported by reliable sources -- within the 60 minutes piece alone, this is all clear. If anyone should be sanctioned for being "tendentious" it is MastCall. He should also be sanctioned for going after BobMeowCat when his real target was me, since I am the one trying to make these edits which have led to this flurry of recent changes and reverts.GodBlessYou2 (talk) 19:44, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Additional statement by BoboMeowCat

In a conversation with NE Ent, I have stated that I would willingly not edit the Becky Bell article for six months. The removal of sources was a one time accident, that I am committed to not repeating. I have a history of learning from and not repeating mistakes. I have not repeated my previous new editor error of violating 1RR, due to not understanding what counts as a revert, which I made 7 months ago. I do not feel that I require a formal ban, and would like to continue to participate on the talk page. I edit a wide variety of articles on WP, but I am particularly interested in the challenge of presenting complicated issues in a neutral and encyclopedic way. I agree with NE Ent that participating on the Becky Bell talk page would be a valuable experience to help further my skills as a new editor.--BoboMeowCat (talk) 00:17, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Result concerning BoboMeowCat

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

  • This article risks becoming a football in the abortion controversy. User:BoboMeowCat was blocked for a 1RR violation last April on the Becky Bell article. In terms of what's new in this report, the most significant edit is one that removes six references from the article. On her own talk page BoboMeowCat has suggested that she voluntarily stop editing the Bell article until 1 May 2015, which would be a six-month break. I would go along with the six months but it should be a formal ban, logged in WP:ARBAB, that covers the topic of Becky Bell on both articles and talk pages across all of Wikipedia. The log of WP:ARBAB shows there has not been much activity so far in 2014, which is probably good, but it also means that AE has got out of the habit of evaluating abortion disputes. If it appears that groups of advocates or opponents of abortion are editing systematically to change the slant of articles in favor of their preferred side we may need to consider wider admin action. EdJohnston (talk) 22:42, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Since BoboMeowCat asserts that the removal of six sources was not intentional, I would favor closing this request with a logged ban from the article itself (though not the talk page) until 1 May, 2015. It's usually better if more than one admin comments in this section, so I'll wait a bit before closing. In the future, if it turns out that there is any further warring on the Becky Bell article then further bans should be considered. I'll ping User:MastCell to see if he has anything to add. EdJohnston (talk) 20:05, 5 December 2014 (UTC)