Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion

If this is your first encounter with stub sorting, we recommend that you read about the nature of stub sorters before diving into a discussion.

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This page only deals with the deletion and renaming of stub types, which consist of a template and a category, and are intended to be used for sorting stubs. Stub templates that are missing categories and stub categories without associated templates are also appropriate here. All other templates or categories nominated for deletion or renaming have to be put on Templates for discussion or Categories for discussion, respectively.

About this page

This page is for the proposal, discussion, and voting on deletion or renaming of stub categories, stub templates, and stub redirects. Centralizing the vote on these three closely related matters on one page reduces the need for repeating identical arguments on several different Wikipedia deletion pages (Wikipedia:Categories for discussion, Wikipedia:Templates for discussion, and Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion) and also reduces the workload on those pages.

This page is still named "Stub types for deletion" for two reasons. Firstly, many of the stub types brought here arrive here after rudimentary discussion has already taken place at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Discoveries. Secondly, renaming automatically implies some form of deletion. The renaming of a stub category leads to the replacement and deletion of the older category, and the renaming of a stub template usually (but not always) leads to the deletion of the previous template name, as stub template redirects are rarely used (for the reasons for this, see the stub naming conventions).

Putting a stub type on Stub types for deletion (SfD), and what happens afterwards

• Mark the affected pages:
  • For deletion:
    • Put {{sfd-t}} on stub templates
    • Put {{sfd-c}} on stub categories
    • Put {{sfd-r}} on stub redirects, and include the redirect target after it (see below for details)
  • For renaming:
    • Put {{sfr-t|New-name}} (parameter optional) on stub templates
    • Put {{sfr-c|New name}} (parameter optional) on stub categories
    • Put {{sfr-r|New name}} (parameter optional) on stub redirects (Redirects should be nominated for renaming only as part of a mass renaming that includes templates that share the name element to be renamed that the redirect uses.)
• List the stub type below in a new subsection at the top of the section which has the current date. If that section does not yet exist, create it. If you did have to create a new section, you then need to add that section to the listings below.
  • Mention all affected pages in the subheading, like this:
    ==== {{tl|banana stub}} / [[:Category:Banana stubs]] / {{tl|YellowCurvyFruit-stub}} (redirect) ====
  • Also mention how many articles currently use the template, and if it is listed anywhere else.
  • Of course, state your reason for nominating the stub type!
• It is generally considered civil to notify the good-faith creator and any main contributors to the stub that you are nominating the stub. To find the main contributors, look in the page history or talk page of the stub. Some standard pre-formed notices are {{sfdnotify1}}, {{sfdnotify2}}, or {{sfd-notice}}.
• After a voting period of seven days, action will be taken if there is consensus on the fate of the stub type. Please do not act before this period is over.
• Archived discussions are logged here, and are marked with {{sfd top}} and {{sfd bottom}}, indicating whether category and template were renamed, deleted, or no action taken.

Putting {{sfd-r}} or {{sfr-r}} on redirects

Given that the {{sfd-r}} and {{sfr-r}} templates break redirection, it is necessary to change a stub redirect when adding the template, as follows:

#Redirect [[Template:Example-stub]] should be changed to:

{{sfd-r}}{{Example-stub}}

Possible reasons for the deletion of a stub type

• It is not used in any article, and its category is empty.
• It overlaps with other stub types, or duplicates them outright.
• Its scope is too limited - As a rule of thumb, there should be at least 50 existing appropriate stub articles, 30 if there is a specific associated WikiProject.
• Its scope is too ambiguous or vague - in these cases, renaming may be more appropriate than outright deletion.
• The stub category or template is misnamed. In this case, make this clear when nominating and propose a new category or template name. Note that - in the case of a template but not a category - it may be more appropriate to make it into a redirect.
• They are malformed, misnamed, or deprecated redirects. See the stub naming guidelines for details on how stubs are named.

What this page is not for

• Stub templates that were not approved by the WikiProject and/or created through the proposal process (unless other reasons apply) — list those on Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Discoveries. From there, they may later be taken to this page
• Patently nonsensical or insulting stub types — they may be speedily deleted.
• Empty categories with no corresponding template — they may be speedily deleted (after 4 days, as per Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion (WP:CSD) criterion C1).
• Recently created stub types not used on any articles — they may be speedily deleted (after 4 days, as per WP:CSD criterion C1). This does not apply to types properly proposed and accepted which have not yet been populated.
• Malformed stub types to which no further deletion reasons apply — fix them or tell the Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting.
• Stub categories that are too large — these are not deleted, even if they get subdivided.

Typical opinion options

• Keep (do not delete or modify)
• Delete (delete template and category)
• Merge with xx-stub (delete category, keep template (either as redirect to, or feeding into the same category as, xx-stub))
• Merge with xx-stub without redirect (delete category and template, put xx-stub on all articles that use it)
• Upmerge (merge to parent stub type, typically by keeping the template but redirecting it to the parent stub category for potential re-splitting later)
• Change scope (reword the template, typically giving it either a larger or more precise scope. Usually also means renaming the category)

When expressing an opinion, please try to give a more substantial reason than simply "I like it/find it useful" or "I dislike it/don't find it useful".

Renaming options

• Rename/Support
  • (for templates: move to new name, replace existing usages, delete redirect);
  • (for categories: recreate category page under new name, repopulate, delete old category).
• Rename, keep redirect/Move (for templates only: move, but don't replace usages of existing template)
• Oppose (no move of template, and/or deletion and recreation of category)

• DO NOT rename any stub type that has been nominated here while discussion is still in progress. Any necessary renaming will be done when the discussion is closed.

• If you wish to argue for the deletion of a template or category nominated for renaming, please re-tag with {{sfd-t}}/{{sfd-c}}, and note the date of doing so, so as to ensure proper consideration of this new nomination.

If a template is speedily renamed, similarly re-tag the resultant redirect if deletion of that is desired.

Note to non-administrators

If a category and/or stub deletion is agreed upon and you're helping to change the stubs on those pages: Once you've emptied the category, please note the category on this page under the "To Delete" section that the stub category section is empty ("orphaned") and "ready to be deleted" to the administrators.

Listings

February 2

Cat:United Kingdom comics stubs

Transferred from Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Speedy: Category:United Kingdom comics stubs to Category:British comics stubs – C2C: all other subcategories in Category:British comics use this naming convention. Fortdj33 (talk) 18:02, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Support. Dawynn (talk) 13:08, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

{{HongKong-poli-bio-stub}}

Don't think I've seen anything like this before. Seems to be excessively splitting hairs. Only two people tagged here. I would think these could either be tagged as {{HongKong-politician-stub}} or {{HongKong-gov-bio-stub}}. Am I missing something? Propose to delete this template, and retag articles. Dawynn (talk) 14:05, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Rename history stub templates

Propose rename of the following:

• {{Karachi-history-stub}} → {{Karachi-hist-stub}}
• {{Philippines-history-stub}} → {{Philippines-hist-stub}}
• {{SierraLeone-history-stub}} → {{SierraLeone-hist-stub}}
• {{Zimbabwe-history-stub}} → {{Zimbabwe-hist-stub}}

Dawynn (talk) 13:56, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

{{Oklahoma-government-stub}}

Propose rename to {{Oklahoma-gov-stub}}. Standardization. Dawynn (talk) 13:52, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

{{Columbus-ga-stub}}

Propose rename to {{ColumbusGA-stub}}. Dawynn (talk) 13:50, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

{{SriLanka-food-stub}}

Propose rename to {{SriLanka-cuisine-stub}}, for standardization with other countries. Dawynn (talk) 13:47, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Cat:Korean football club stubs

Not sure why this even exists. There is no template for Korea, so clubs can only be tagged with the two individual country tags. And South Korea already has its own category. Propose deleting the Korea category, and moving the North Korea template and South Korea category directly under the Asia parent. Dawynn (talk) 11:41, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

January 30

Sports Car Racing stub

{{Sports Car Racing stub}}, created after the relevant propsals discussion was ignored, has now been redirected to {{Sportscar-autoracing-stub}} (the title agreed upon at proposals). As {{Sports Car Racing stub}} is mal-named, I propose to delete it and replace it with {{Sportscar-autoracing-stub}}. Previous discussions: Proposals, Discoveries. Severo^TC 09:54, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Support Does this mean I need to manually change over the current articles to the new template? --Sabre ball ^{t c} 18:17, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Old business

January 24

Category:Beloniformes stubs

• Upmerge - A quick scan finds only 42 stubs here. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 17:54, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Support Dawynn (talk) 14:16, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Category:West Bosnia Canton geography stubs

• Category:West Bosnia Canton geography stubs → Category:Canton 10 geography stubs

West Bosnia Canton is an alternate name for Canton 10. Changing name would conform this name to Canton 10 and parent Category:Canton 10. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 04:48, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Support Dawynn (talk) 14:16, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

January 22

{{Africa-struct-stub}}

Template is empty. Appears that African nations each have a national-level template. Propose deleting template and making Cat:African building and structure stubs a Parent-only category. Dawynn (talk) 14:45, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

January 19

{{Europe-athletics-bio-stub}} and {{Euro-athletics-bio-stub}}

All countries that compete in the European Athletic Association now have country-level templates. Propose deleting these two continent-level templates, and changing Cat:European athletics biography stubs to a parent-only category. Dawynn (talk) 13:57, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

January 17

{{Asia-athletics-bio-stub}}

Every country that competes in the Asian Athletics Association now has a country-level template. Propose deleting {{Asia-athletics-bio-stub}} and converting Cat:Asian athletics biography stubs to a parent-only category. Dawynn (talk) 12:33, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Sub-Antarctic island geography stubs

Rename:

• Cat:Sub-Antarctic island geography stubs → Cat:Subantarctic island geography stubs

Due to renaming of permcats. Really, we should make some kind of speedy ability for this type of thing.... Severo^TC 13:49, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Support Dawynn (talk) 14:19, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

January 16

Regions of Republika Srpska

Please review this discussion: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Regions of Republika Srpska. In accordance with the discussion, delete the following categories, and upmerge all child categories and templates to Cat:Republika Srpska geography stubs.

• Cat:Trebinje Region geography stubs
• Cat:Vlasenica Region geography stubs

Dawynn (talk) 17:24, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

January 13

Cat:English football forward, pre-1870 birth stubs

The 1860 template matured to a full category, leaving this category very undersized. Propose to delete category, upmerge templates. Dawynn (talk) 10:57, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

January 12

Cat:Federal District geography stubs

Premature. I see no more geography articles in the chosen perm cat. Delete category, upmerge template. No prejudice against recreation once template filled. Dawynn (talk) 03:31, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

January 11

Cat:Algeria company stubs

Tried to fill, but still greatly undersized. Upmerge templates and delete category. No prejudice against recreation once templates populated. Dawynn (talk) 13:31, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

European sports venue stub splits

There are four regional splits under Cat:European sports venue stubs. But there has been a tradition, that once a country fills up, it is taken out of the regional category, and placed under the main European category. The downside is that one of these regional splits (Cat:Western European sports venue stubs‎) has now seen enough countries mature that it is now undersized. I propose that we do away with the regional splits altogether, and just upmerge any remaining countries into the European category.

• Cat:Eastern European sports venue stubs‎ (241 P)
• Cat:Northern European sports venue stubs‎ (137 P)
• Cat:Southern European sports venue stubs‎ (234 P)
• Cat:Western European sports venue stubs‎ (34 P)

This would mean that the main European category would then have around 700 articles. At the very least, I'd at least like to get rid of the Western category, and upmerge the remaining countries from that category into the European parent. Dawynn (talk) 10:40, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Support: Certainly East/North/West, and it then seems silly to leave South seperate. Bulgaria category is already speediable and Slovakia, Ukraine, Finland and Serbia are very close (about 50 stubs each), with those 5 countries taken out of the picture it'd be closer to 400 articles total, about half of them from the Southern Europe. --Qetuth (talk) 00:22, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

January 10

Liberal party stubs

All other political party stubs use -party-, and -liberal- is also a parent stem:

• {{Liberalparty-stub}} → {{Liberal-party-stub}}
• {{Europe-liberalparty-stub}} → {{Europe-liberal-party-stub}}

Severo^TC 20:53, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Cat:Ukraine university stubs

According to category history, others others have unsuccessfully tried to fill category. Category still very undersized. Propose deleting category, and upmerging templates. Dawynn (talk) 03:04, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Cat:Aviation terminology stubs

According to category history, others acknowledge that finding terminology articles will be difficult. Category is severely undersized. Propose deleting category, and upmerging templates. Dawynn (talk) 02:59, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

January 5

{{PuertoRicoBiota-stub}}

Found this one. I don't like the name, but not sure what would work best. My first suggestion would be {{PuertoRico-biota-stub}}. But I don't see other biota templates (not even a {{biota-stub}}). I might also suggest a pair of templates ({{PuertoRico-plant-stub}} and {{PuertoRico-animal-stub}}). There are a couple plant stubs (i.e. {{Australia-plant-stub}}), but I don't see any regional animal stubs. Please discuss. Dawynn (talk) 19:08, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

The Australia one came about because there are a number of plants unique to Australia. Is the same true for Puerto Rico (and for animals in Puerto Rico too)? Severo^TC 13:52, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

{{Cagayan de Oro-hotel-stub}}

Unproposed, malformed, and doubtfully needed at this point. I propose scrapping this and moving all 5 articles to {{Philippines-hotel-stub}}. Dawynn (talk) 17:08, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Delete without leaving redirect. Severo^TC 13:57, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

{{Theater-struct-stub}} / {{Theatre-struct-stub}}

Both of these upmerge to Cat:Theatre (structure) stubs. I don't see a point in having two main templates for the same category. Cat:Theatre stubs has found a viable solution to aviod the variant spellings by using {{theat-stub}}. I propose the same here. Propose keeping both of these templates as redirects, but build {{theat-struct-stub}} as the primary template for this category. Dawynn (talk) 12:24, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Doing a little more digging, it appears that there was a {{Theat-struct-stub}} at one time. But there was desire to have separate templates with the two variant spellings. But the 'theat' abbreviation remains on all other theatre related templates. Revising my proposal -- create two templates:

1. {{theat-struct-stub}}. Redirect {{theatre-struct-stub}} here.
2. {{US-theat-struct-stub}}. Redirect {{theater-struct-stub}} here, and move any non-US articles over to {{theat-struct-stub}}.

This way, the US can have theaters, and everyone else can have theatres. Dawynn (talk) 13:01, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

If we have a -theat- stem, then it should be used throughout, but I can live with your revised proposal. Severo^TC 13:57, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

The variant spellings were wanted in the description. As in "This stub article talks about a specific [theatre / theater]". Under the revised proposal, the actual template names can all be 'theat', while still allowing the US template to be about a specific theater. Are there any other nations where theater is preferred over theatre? Dawynn (talk) 22:28, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

January 4

Cat:Maryland newspaper stubs

Undersized. With only 39 total articles in the permcat, this will struggle to reach population. Delete category, upmerge template. Dawynn (talk) 18:56, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Cat:Bavarian People's Party politician stubs

Undersized. Only 21 articles in the permcat. Propose deleting category, upmerging template. Dawynn (talk) 18:24, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Cat:G.I. Joe stubs

14 articles, making this our smallest category. Tried to find more stubs, but can't. Propose deleting category, upmerging template. Dawynn (talk) 11:31, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Upmerging to what? I agree that the template has served its purpose, there were once over a hundred G.I. Joe stubs, and most of them have been merged into the lists of characters. But I still think there should be an easy way to separately identify the few stub articles that are left in WikiProject G.I. Joe, so that they can possibly be expanded on and improved. Fortdj33 (talk) 15:55, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

There is. The Statistics tables give very easy identification of all articles at every level, based on how articles are tagged in your wikiproject templates. Dawynn (talk) 11:10, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

And here. Upmerge FWIW. Severo^TC 12:38, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I understand that any stub-class articles in the project can be found one way or another by sorting. But my point is that the {{GIJoe-stub}} template is listed as a more-specific stub tag under several other projects (Animation, Comics, Toys, Fictional Universe, etc.) If the related category is eliminated, what category do you propose it be upmerged to? Because otherwise there is no one category that fits for all of the articles in Cat:G.I. Joe stubs. Fortdj33 (talk) 19:26, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Templates allow for upmerging to up to 3 different categories. Seeing as how its currently under 4 categories, we would need to eliminate one. I would suggest either eliminating Animation or Comics, and keeping Toys and Fictional Universe. But that can be a discussion point. Dawynn (talk) 21:14, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm fine with eliminating any category that is no longer needed. But we can't just eliminate a category for a character article like Voltar (G.I. Joe), who appeared in the toyline, comic books and cartoon series, and therefore is also part of the G.I. Joe fictional universe. Right now, Cat:G.I. Joe stubs serves the purpose of including that article in all of the appropriate categories, and I am uncomfortable with arbitrarily sorting those stub articles into one category or another, when some of them truly belong in all four categories, and others do not. If the G.I. Joe category is deleted, I just make to make sure that the articles are recategorized properly. Fortdj33 (talk) 19:36, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Cat:Canton of Neuchâtel geography stubs

Undersized. Another category I was unable to fill. Propose to delete category, upmerge template. No prejudice against recreating category if sufficient articles tagged. Dawynn (talk) 03:02, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

January 2

Cat:Tatra County geography stubs

Reviewed permcat. Only found 30 stubs. Propose deleting category, upmerging template. No prejudcie against recreating category once template filled. Dawynn (talk) 19:45, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Cat:Slovenian railway station stubs

Undersized. Only 36 articles in the perm cat. Propose deleting category, upmerging template. No prejudice against recreating category once template filled. Dawynn (talk) 19:32, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I wasn't aware that there's a minimum population requirement when I created it. My intention is to populate it with the 143 articles from here. Which category are you proposing for deletion? The Slovenian railway station stubs or the Railway stations in Slovenia category?

We manage only the stub categories. This discussion concerns only the Slovenian railway station stubs category. Dawynn (talk) 03:13, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Delete with no prejudice to recreation if 60 stub articles are reached. Severo^TC 06:19, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Cat:Thiaridae stubs

Undersized. Only 29 articles in the perm cat. Propose delete. Dawynn (talk) 16:30, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Oppose: The article Thiara (gastropod) alone has almost 20 species with red links. These articles are waiting to be created. We have a bot at work at present in our project creating in the long run several ten thousand articles. In time, all the stub templates with less than 30 blue links will be filled up. There is no need to delete them now, just to be created again in the near future. JoJan (talk) 09:22, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Delete the category, with no prejudice against recerating when there are 60 stubs tagged with the {{Thiaridae-stub}}. The bot can tag the new articles with the stub tag (which isn't up for deletion), and when there are enough stubs, the category can be recreated. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 06:51, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

January 1

Cat:Tai-Kadai language stubs / {{Tk-lang-stub}}

Unproposed, and the template looks like it would not be accepted. So, this is now up for discussion. Unless there is objection to the category as a whole, I'd suggest at least changing the template to {{TaiKadai-lang-stub}}. Dawynn (talk) 11:49, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

December 29

Cat:Pre-1930 aircraft stubs‎ / {{aero-pre1930-stub}}

I have requested full categories for the 1910s and 1920s articles. Once those are built, this will have just 5 articles. And it will be inappropriately named. I suggest deleting the category. Rename the template to {{aero-pre1900-stub}}. Upmerge the new template, along with {{aero-1900s-stub}} to Cat:Aircraft stubs. Dawynn (talk) 15:01, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Support the above split, but keep the categories by decade. There is no need other than WP:BUREAUCRACY to have some decades with categories and some not. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 03:25, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Cat:African weightlifting biography stubs

Attempted to fill, but still undersized. Delete category, upmerge template. No prejudice against recreating category once sufficient articles tagged. Dawynn (talk) 04:12, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Small Afghanistan geography categories

Propose deleting the following small categories. Upmerge the templates to Cat:Afghanistan geography stubs. No prejudice against recreation once sufficient articles can be found.

• Cat:Farah Province geography stubs‎ (20 P)
• Cat:Faryab Province geography stubs‎ (18 P)
• Cat:Ghazni Province geography stubs‎ (37 P)
• Cat:Ghōr Province geography stubs‎ (23 P)
• Cat:Helmand Province geography stubs‎ (38 P)
• Cat:Herat Province geography stubs‎ (43 P)
• Cat:Samangan Province geography stubs‎ (19 P)

Dawynn (talk) 03:00, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Cat:Latvian painter stubs

Undersized, although it contains most of the permcat articles. Delete category, upmerge template, with no prejudice against recreating category once sufficient articles exist. Dawynn (talk) 02:56, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

December 28

{{AfricanUnion-stub}} / Cat:African Union stubs

While reviewing templates to vet, I found this. See original discussion. According to the original discussion, this was strongly opposed. My feeling is to delete based on the original discussion. Feel free to discuss again. Dawynn (talk) 12:41, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Math stubs

At Proposals, it became clear that we use a few different stems for mathematics templates. The main one is at -math- so I propose to rename the following, leaving redirects:

1. {{mathanalysis-stub}} → {{math-analysis-stub}}
2. {{mathlogic-stub}} → {{math-logic-stub}}
3. {{mathapplied-stub}} → {{applied-math-stub}}
4. {{mathematics-lit-stub}} → {{math-lit-stub}} (reverse redirect)

Severo^TC 09:31, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Oppose. The mere addition of a hyphen doesn't make enough difference to make the change worthwhile. The mathematics project hasn't run into any problems with the current names. — Carl (CBM · talk) 14:13, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Separately, I am going to notify the mathematics project about this, which should have been done when the nomination was made. Other people there may have better ideas about how to manage the templates that are used by the project. — Carl (CBM · talk) 14:13, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

• Comment. If these are moved, existing pages bearing the template should be updated to point to the new template (as a courtesy to our servers). I don't see the point of leaving a bunch of redirects behind. I don't really have an opinion on whether or not this is worthwhile, as long as someone is actually willing to do the work. Creating redirects going one way or the other seems like a good idea though, regardless of the outcome of this particular discussion. Sławomir Biały (talk) 14:22, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose It is quite sufficient to add a redirect in the opposite direction if you (= the nom.) feel it's convenient. Although I understand the logic of the proposal, it is easy to find an equally convincing argument in the opposite direction, so, as Carl put it, the change is not worthwhile. Sasha (talk) 15:20, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

•  

1. Support move to {{Analysis-math-stub}}
2. Support move to {{Logic-math-stub}}
3. Support
4. Support move to {{Lit-math-stub}}

As these respect the hierarchy in a sensible manner. Rich Farmbrough, 16:49, 28 December 2011 (UTC).

"Logic-math-stub" doesn't make any sense for a move; the field is "mathematical logic" not "logic mathematics". The same goes for mathematical analysis. No math stub template has a prefix before "math", so there is no such hierarchy to respect. On the other hand it might make sense to move "mathapplied-stub" to "applied-math-stub". — Carl (CBM · talk) 16:57, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

That's no the way the stub hierarchy works. Of course in this case it is contrary to common usage, but I thought we'd established that in your world template names are just signifiers, and the semantics are irrelevant, so it looks like you are just taking a contrary position to preserve the status quo, as you do so often. Rich Farmbrough, 22:42, 11 January 2012 (UTC).

There hierarchy for mathematics content stubs was quite clear: when they begin with "math", there is no hyphen: mathapplied-stub, mathanalysis-stub, mathlogic-stub are the only three. Two other ones (math-contest-stub and mathematics-lit-stub) are related to mathematics literature and mathematics competitions, rather than mathematics content. So the hierarchy for mathematics content stubs is already consistent in not using a hyphen. The status quo seems to be serving us perfectly well, I have seen no comments of complaints at the math project that our stub templates are problematic. — Carl (CBM · talk) 22:50, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

• Comment. The only existing name that seems wrong to me is mathapplied-stub, which should be renamed to applied-math-stub or maybe more consistently appliedmath-stub. I don't see the point of adding hyphens, but it seems mostly harmless except for revrersing the otder of mathematical logic and mathematical analysis which is just wrong. —David Eppstein (talk) 17:19, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, I hadn't expected this much feedback in such a short space of time - if only we could encourage so many people to every stub discussion! It seems to me that not everyone is aware of the role of stub sorting. I brought these templates here for renaming because they fail the stub naming conventions. Stubs are named in a very specific way, using components in, or from, noun form. These components generally stay the same if they have the same meaning from one template to the next.

In these templates, I noticed that the main component (-math-) was not being used. I could not find a good naming reason why it wasn't being used, nor has one been presented here. (As a maths-related example of ignoring an existing component, I proposed that we should have {{knottheory-stub}}, not {{knot-theory-stub}}, even though the -theory- component exists, because knot theory is not the theory of knots.)

Therefore, as per the stub naming conventions, the component -math- should be retained as far as possible, and these templates should be renamed. Really it represents just a small change, just like the majority of edits on Wikipedia. Worthwhile? Only as far as any stub sorting is worthwhile!

Moving onto some of the other issues brought up here, not directly relevant to the renaming discussion:

Re: Carl (14:13, 28 December 2011), it is not standard practice to notify WikiProjects. I did forget to place the renaming nomination template on the stub templates (I'm always forgetting about it, it's nothing to do with mathematics). I have now placed them, and it would appear on the WikiProject watchlist and article alerts if the talk pages had been tagged by WikiProject Mathematics, which I notice they haven't.

Re: Sławomir Biały (14:22, 28 December 2011), perhaps you don't see the point in having template redirects, but they are a fixture of Wikipedia - there are thousands of template redirects in use. It is not considered good practice to update all pages that transclude a template when the template is renamed, indeed, making an edit to an article merely to update the template name is considered a frivolous edit, unnecessarily consuming resources and bloating the edit history of the article. WPSS adds templates to the AWB template redirects list in order to change the template call when other changes are being made.

Severo^TC 13:31, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

If it has not been your common practice to notify wikiprojects when templates that they work with are under discussion, it should become your practice. Otherwise, nobody would have notice these discussions at all. Few editors have templates on their watchlists. — Carl (CBM · talk) 23:53, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

As I commented, no WikiProject had tagged these templates using their WikiProject banner. If they had, the notification would appear through article alerts. Second, tagging the template gives a visual indicator to anyone reading or editing the articles they are used in. I don't think it's practical or desirable to notify WikiProjects in a different way from any other deletion discussion although really thats a discussion for another forum (i.e. Wikipedia talk:Stub types for deletion). Severo^TC 07:05, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

• Support all four: if as Severo says it is not considered costly to leave existing articles as is and simply redirect the old stub name, I see no disadvantage, and it makes their position as a subcategory clearer. The originally suggested {{math-lit-stub}} would be the better name, as checking {{Science-book-stub}} reveals all similar categories put the field of study first. As for the order math-logic vs logic-math, I can see arguments for both, but I would tend towards the former as the main article for the field is at Mathematical logic. --Qetuth (talk) 07:35, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
  • It is not possible these days to "leave existing articles as is". If the templates are renamed, people using AWB will go through and change the names of the templates in all the articles. This sort of thing is built into AWB, even, to make it easier for them to do. So the question is whether the change of name is worth the editing of all the articles. I don't see that it is. — Carl (CBM · talk) 23:50, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
    • If a user were to use AWB solely to replace the template calls, it would almost definitely be an abuse of AWB. It is not built into AWB to make it easier to do, but rather because it is a minor task which can be completed in the AWB "general fixes" when something more worthwhile is being done. The existing articles would be left as they are - this is regular practice. Severo^TC 18:00, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
      • It is an abuse of AWB, but it happens with surprising regularity. I often see AWB users mass-change all uses of one template to another under the mistaken impression that, since AWB is able to make the change, the change should be made. In the end, it's inevitable that the existing uses would get replaced with the new name. — Carl (CBM · talk) 20:24, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
        • Are you referring to editors using "find and replace" or the template redirects facility? I have seen some editors use the find and replace when they move a template, but I have never seen a stub sorter do this with a stub template. The length of the list of stub templates on the AWB template redirect list is evidence that it's not routinely done. Either way, I don't think the possibility of people being a bit daft is a reason not to follow naming conventions. Severo^TC 20:45, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

• I support moving to {{applied-math-stub}} but oppose moving the others. The first two aren't worthwhile (and may be worse). The fourth should probably be moved to something different altogether -- it's not clear what the template means (I had to click on it). CRGreathouse (t | c) 17:29, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

November 2

Category:Soria province geography stubs

Propose renaming Category:Soria province geography stubs to Category:Province of Soria geography stubs

Rationalle: Per renaming of permcat at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2011 October 25#Category:Soria Province. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 06:50, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Oppose for now. I like parallelism. Personally, I question why Soria was singled out in the permcats. I would change my vote to agree if all the Spanish province permcats were changed to Province of Foo. But I would ask that all the Spanish province stub categories change at once. Dawynn (talk) 11:40, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Change my vote to Support. Now that all the permcats have changed, I'll gladly support, as long as we change all the existing categories:

• Cat:Almería province geography stubs‎ → Cat:Province of Almería‎ geography stubs‎
• Cat:Granada (province) geography stubs‎ → Cat:Province of Granada‎ geography stubs‎
• Cat:Ávila province geography stubs‎ → Cat:Province of Ávila‎ geography stubs‎
• Cat:Burgos province geography stubs‎ → Cat:Province of Burgos‎ geography stubs‎
• Cat:León province geography stubs‎ → Cat:Province of León‎ geography stubs‎
• Cat:Palencia province geography stubs‎ → Cat:Province of Palencia‎ geography stubs‎
• Cat:Salamanca province geography stubs‎ → Cat:Province of Salamanca‎ geography stubs‎
• Cat:Segovia province geography stubs‎ → Cat:Province of Segovia‎ geography stubs‎
• Cat:Soria province geography stubs‎ → Cat:Province of Soria‎ geography stubs‎
• Cat:Valladolid province geography stubs‎ → Cat:Province of Valladolid‎ geography stubs‎
• Cat:Zamora province geography stubs‎ → Cat:Province of Zamora‎ geography stubs‎
• Cat:Cuenca (province) geography stubs‎ → Cat:Province of Cuenca geography stubs‎

Dawynn (talk) 14:27, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Support all (as per Dawynn). If this hasn't been closed because not enough people have weighed in then I will weigh in :) I support all of Dawynn's proposals here so that they match the permcats. Severo^TC 07:49, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

To orphan

Stub types in this section have been deemed deletable and have to be removed from all articles using them, so that they can be deleted.

From December 28

• {{AfricanUnion-stub}}

Dawynn (talk) 16:58, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

To delete

Stub types in this section have been orphaned and can be deleted.

• None currently

Archived discussions

See Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion/Log