Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)

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The miscellaneous section of the village pump is used to post messages that do not fit into any other category. Please post on the policy, technical, or proposals pages, or – for assistance – at the help desk, rather than here, if at all appropriate. For general knowledge questions, please use the reference desk.
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Slate magazine on the arbitration committee's ruling WRT gamergate...[edit]

Amanda Marcotte, reporting in Slate magazine described on-going controversy in wikipedia's coverage of the Gamergate controversy. In her account anti-feminist vandals, in violation of various policies, unfairly used the wikipedia to attack feminist critics of computer games -- and, in its ruling, the arbitration committee applied sanctions to both the vandals and certain vandal fighters.

After agreeing that, eventually, the work of the POV-pushing vandals was undone, she concluded:

Still, Wikipedia lost the very people who were trying to guard the gates in the first place. What happens to the next victim of a Wikipedia harassment campaign if the defenders are getting squeezed out through this pox-on-both-your-houses system?

I think Marcotte's criticism deserves attention. I have personally been harassed by very persistent uncivil POV-pushing edit-warriors, who were eventually blocked for policy violations. When the most persistent of these POV vandals was eventually indefinitely blocked, so was a good contributor, who had merely been trying to undo the vandal's policy violations. Geo Swan (talk) 19:08, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

  • Are you suggesting that in defending the "right thing" it is OK for "good contributors" run amok? BTW "policy violations" sounds softly. We are talking about gross abuse by the "good guys" here. Yes, sometimes one may become frustrated fending off abusers, but the only solution in wikipedia is to rally more troops, not to go vigilante. Wikipedia is a community effort; whereas so many a "good guy" take onto themselves fighting "bad guys" as a kind of personal quest. IMO what deserves attention instead, is to take a lesson from a fact why moniker "five horsemen" appeared in the first place. IMO it is a manifestation of a sad trend that established editors and admins think they have all power to fight the rest of the world in defense of Wikipedia. They have not. If anything, this is one of the symptoms of wikipediholism, and they better take a DGAF pill and share the burden. Staszek Lem (talk) 21:41, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Amanda Marcotte (2013-03-06). "On Wikipedia, Gamergate Refuses to Die". Slate magazine. Retrieved 2015-03-14. 
I suppose there is no escaping politics and its associated social engineering efforts. Praemonitus (talk) 19:36, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

High islandic[edit]

Hi all, I am busy reviving a previously deleted article on NL Wikipedia on High Icelandic. Here its a redirect, but it exists as real articles on a lot of other Wikipedia's, even Icelandic. It has a history of spamming. I have the impression that due to the fact this article exists on Wikipedia, the constructed language from the 1990s still remains a bit alive. Almost all websites about it have disappeared. Is there a scientific evidence, that Wikipedia itself creates a new sort of "truth". And could this language be a sign of this? Could you provide any sources of this happening in more cases? Pieter1 (talk) 12:59, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

I believe there have been a few news stories about journalists using Wikipedia for their research and not checking independent sources for verification. Some hoax stories (and fake entries) on Wikipedia have also made the news. Check on a search engine for more. Given the size and scope of Wikipedia, these types of events are probably inevitable. Praemonitus (talk) 16:43, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Book promotion[edit]

Please read the Ordered to Die-article. It reads: "Edward Erickson has produced the first fully researched account of the Ottoman army in the First World War. There simply has not been a similar complete account, apart from an earlier work in French... uniquely different from previous publications...very systematic, and unlike previous publications..."

In short, my WP:PEACOCK-alert went off.Can somebody have a look at it?Jeff5102 (talk) 07:55, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

I've edited the article to tone down the promotional language and keep the synopsis section more focused. Feel free to edit it further, though, or to undo some of my changes if they don't seem helpful. —Granger (talk · contribs) 21:20, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Missing "sandbox" link[edit]

I have Add a "Sandbox" link to the personal toolbar area enabled in my preferences, yet I no longer see a Sandbox link in my personal toolbar. Does anybody know what might have happened? Praemonitus (talk) 04:16, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Turned out it was my NoScript settings. Praemonitus (talk) 16:18, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

War edits (political and personal opinion)[edit]


(cur | prev) 06:18, 22 March 2015‎ Volunteer Marek (talk | contribs)‎ . . (80,989 bytes) (-508)‎ . . (no they didn't. Get your news from a real source not one which makes up crap. Yawwwwwnnnnnn.) (undo)

the administrator does not accept the fact. it uses the media information (03,03,15) but removes media refutation (20,03,15). this a forgery + lie.

I ask you to indicate the correct path for I do not know the correct+formal procedure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:07, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Please see my comment on Talk:Buk missile system Ellywa (talk) 15:35, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

When is a good time to promote a user essay to one in the general project space?[edit]

A couple months ago, I wrote Verifiability, and truth in my user space. I'm considering moving it into the WP namespace, but I'm not sure about whether or not it's ready for that in terms of content and quality. I'd like if a few other editors might take a look and offer their opinions on whether or not it's ready for the move, and what might need to be done before moving it over. Thanks! // coldacid (talk|contrib) 18:59, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

I don't need to look to tell you that you can move it whenever you want. Userspace essays are reserved for two situations: you don't want other people to mess with it (very much, anyway), and everyone else disagrees with you. If you don't mind other people editing it, and it's not absolutely, completely, diametrically opposed to the community's viewpoint, then you can move it whenever you want. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:24, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. Guess it's time to just be bold, then! // coldacid (talk|contrib) 19:46, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Just one thing to remember... if you move an essay out of your user space, others will be able to edit it... including any editors who might disagree with the point you are trying to make in the essay. It is quite possible that will end up saying something very different from what it says now (indeed it could end up saying the opposite of what you originally intended). Blueboar (talk) 12:15, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
That's why I'm keeping it on my watchlist. // coldacid (talk|contrib) 13:37, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Mimicing natural erosion in internet[edit]

Is any website tried to simulate erosion against itself in purpose for more natural experience? (talk) 14:55, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Are you referring to websites named like a coincidental ? Otherwise, any website not competing for maintaining its rankings and its accessibility through the internet search engines will see its popularity erode if they have competitors. So the answer could be "very probably yes". However if you'd need a second registered URL in order to compete against your first, the answer might as well be also "no" (you'd need a team of websites). --Askedonty (talk) 15:52, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Automatic citation formatting is on its way[edit]

Citoid, the automagic citation filling tool, is on its way at last. It's been up at the French and Italian Wikipedias for a while, with positive feedback overall. The time isn't firmly settled, but Wednesday evening UTC is most likely. This has been one of the most-requested features from experienced editors.

Citoid depends upon good TemplateData. Wikipedia:TemplateData/Tutorial explains how to write the basics by hand, but the TemplateData GUI tool is usually faster and easier. It also depends upon external services like Zotero. If your favorite website isn't working, it probably needs a new Zotero entry. The design is less than ideal. There is a book-with-bookmark button for Citoid, next to a now-unlabeled "Cite" menu for filling in citations the old way.

If you have suggestions on how to improve the design, then please leave your comments where the designers are most likely to see them, at mw:Talk:VisualEditor/Design/Reference Dialog. If you have any other suggestions or run into problems, then please leave feedback at Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback. If you would like to see Citoid at another wiki, then you may make that request in Phabricator: by creating a new task under the "Citoid" project. Most requests will probably not be granted for the next couple of weeks, but evidence that TemplateData is current on your main citation templates will likely improve your chances.

Here at the English Wikipedia, you will need to opt-in to VisualEditor via Beta Features to see Citoid. Pre-deployment testing can be done here on Beta Labs. (Before you ask: yes, after getting all the bumps smoothed out, the plan is to make it available in the wikitext editor as well. However, that will likely not be for some months yet.)

Happy editing, Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:18, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Update: This is being delayed for a few days. Monday (late) is the most likely time now. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:51, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Vatnik (slang)[edit]

I'm trying to figure out whether there's any reason why the new article Vatnik (slang) is out of place here. It's a transcription into English of a word that isn't used in English, only in Russian and Ukrainian. Even if someone wrote an article about a comparable English word that went beyond being a dictionary definition and warranted inclusion, it seems odd to me that foreign words unknown to the English-speaking world would have a presence even if they go beyond a definition. I could be entirely wrong but I thought I'd get some feedback on this. —Largo Plazo (talk) 13:40, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

I do not think it belongs here.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:26, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
I have to agree with Ymblanter. It's one thing if it's a slang term that is used often in English, but this is a word I've never come across before ever. If it's not common English slang, it doesn't really have a purpose on the English Wikipedia. // coldacid (talk|contrib) 19:53, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
Well if the word passes WP:GNG then we could have an article about it. Of course that relies on others haven written about the word in whaterver language. The test should not be if it is in English or not. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:57, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
@Largoplazo: It appears that WP:NOTNEO may also apply. GoingBatty (talk) 00:48, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
How will we escape the Matrix if there's WP:NOTNEO? Oiyarbepsy (talk) 01:33, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
@Oiyarbepsy: By providing what reliable secondary sources, such as books and papers, say about the term or concept, not books and papers that use the term. GoingBatty (talk) 02:21, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Clearly missed the joke. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 14:18, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Research Study on Privacy[edit]

Hi all, I'm representing a team of researchers from Drexel University who are researching privacy practices among Wikipedia editors. If you have ever thought about your privacy when editing Wikipedia or taken steps to protect your privacy when you edit, we’d like to learn from you about it.

The study is titled “Privacy, Anonymity, and Peer Production.” Details can be found on meta where the project was discussed before beginning recruitment here: (

If you would like to help us out, you need to read and complete the online consent form linked here and we will get in contact with you:

We are planning to conduct interviews that will last anywhere from 30-90 minutes (depending on how much you have to say) by phone or Skype and we can offer you $20 for your time, but you do not need to accept payment to participate.

I have been researching Wikipedia since 2004 and have conducted many studies, most of which have resulted in papers that you can find here:

Thanks for considering it, please contact me if you have questions!

--Andicat (talk) 16:29, 25 March 2015 (UTC) (Andrea Forte,

Statistics about my deletions[edit]

I wonder if it is possible to get statistics for how many article I prodded, or nominated for AfD, and how many of those were successful? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:24, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Your AFD stats ostensibly show you making 294 nominations and 119 resulting in deletions. However, the table has counted you as !voting keep in some, for example Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Helga_Guitton, where you do not seem to have actually changed your !vote although you acknowledged the work done to save the article. Thincat (talk) 08:16, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Looking for legal input about article titling[edit]

How would I reach out to someone from the Wikimedia Foundation about if neglecting to put a specific word in an article title's disambiguator has the potential to result in a lawsuit against the foundation? I mean, my concern might not be an issue at all in the foundation's eyes, but I'm not sure. Steel1943 (talk) 22:18, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

@Steel1943: Is that something that can be discussed here? That would probably be best, but if you feel it shouldn't you can contact them at <> (obv. replace _at_ with @). Or maybe go first through OTRS. Be aware that they might take a long time to get back to you since they have a long queue. §FreeRangeFrogcroak 22:26, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
@FreeRangeFrog: Sure, I'll discuss it here, given that my worries/concerns may be reasonably invalidated. I recently stumbled upon a group of move request discussions to suggest moving some articles from the disambiguator "(pornographic actor/actress)" to "(actor/actress)". Now, I am aware that we have several guidelines created to address this and to enforce these move requests, such as WP:PRECISE and WP:CONCISE to get rid of the word "pornography", MOS:DAB tells us suggestions for adding disambiguators to ambiguous titles, WP:NCPDAB for person subject disambiguators, WP:NOTCENSORED says that the article can remain, etc. However, an actual legal issue I could see with doing this (with the exception of subjects who have achieved notability outside of pornography who worked in pornography separate of the other subject which they are notable) is that all pages (except for those in the "Draft:" namespace) are indexed for search engines by default. Since search engines will usually only pick up the article name and the first few lines of the article when displayed on the search engine (such as Google or Bing), I am in belief that an entry appearing this way on a search engine has the possibility to open up the foundation for a lawsuit, provided someone decides to take the "lawsuit" route due to possibly their child looking up the ambiguous term and then the search engine not being able to properly filter out the entry due to the lack of the word "pornography" anywhere at the start. (Like I said, my concerns could be righteously invalidated, but I am not sure, and I personally would rather not have Wikimedia's donations be wasted on a situation that could have been avoided.) Steel1943 (talk) 00:45, 27 March 2015 (UTC)