Wikipedia:WikiProject Children's literature/Project Discussion

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Welcome to the Project Discussion page for WikiProject Children's literature. This is a page for all long-term discussions about project policy and organisation. If your discussion relates to articles within this WikiProject, please use Article Discussion. If your concern is a brief query or comment which is unlikely to lead to long discussion, please use the project talk page.

Please start each discussion in a new section, and give other project members at least a week to respond before closing the discussion. Closed discussions will be archived periodically.

Click here to begin a new discussion.

Closed discussions[edit]

Category heirarchy[edit]

Wikipedia:WikiProject Children's literature/categories

Opened March 2006. A proposal to reorganise the category heirarchy of Category:Children's literature. The result of this discussion was Support.

Category renaming[edit]

Wikipedia:WikiProject Children's literature/youngadult

Opened March 2006. A proposal to rename categories from 'Children's literature' to 'Children's and young adult literature'. The result of this discussion was Support.

Current discussions[edit]

Job Centre[edit]

Should this project have a Job Centre such as WikiProject Novels have. I'm not sure if this project is large enough; that is the reason that we don't have a newsletter. Rock drum (talk·contribs·guestbook) 17:19, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

What kind of jobs would be included? There is no point in one if there aren't official jobs, and there don't seem to be many at the moment. strdst_grl (call me Stardust) 16:52, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
What is your definition of official jobs? Rock drum (talk·contribs·guestbook) 17:03, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
Well, you pointed to the WikiProject Novels job centre. That page is essentially a list of set tasks, such as "Newsletter editor", "Collaboration co-ordinator", each of which has its own priority, list of responsibilities etc. Before creating a job centre like this, surely we need to create some of these jobs to place there. strdst_grl (call me Stardust) 18:08, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
Jobs could include Collaboration coordinator, Task force coordinator, Project promoter' (jobs could include making a {{Wikipedia ads}}, advertising at the Wikipedia Signpost etc.) and article image moniter. These are just a few ideas, does anyone else have any? Thanks, Rock drum (talk·contribs·guestbook) 18:14, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
we should have assessment coordinator too. Shuggiebear97 3:47, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I have created a discussion page for this at /Job Centre, so that the two discussions (should there be a job centre/what jobs should it include) can be separated. strdst_grl (call me Stardust) 11:17, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Categories and project scope[edit]

I have been working on a list of categories which need the articles in them tagging, and I've come up with a few which don't seem to fit. They are all tagged for the project, and they are all sub-cats of Category:Children's literature but I am not sure they belong here; essentially, my question is do these subjects fall under the project scope:

Categories relating to comic strips:

I'm not very au fait with the organisation of Wikipedia categories but it seems to me that the comics categories listed above should belong to Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics (which seems to be a very large Project) in the first instance and be sorted in with other Comics categories but that the comics created primarily for children (in the UK that would be titles such as The Beano and The Dandy) should have a supplementary category identifying them as children's comics and, as such, come within our remit.--Plad2 (talk) 14:11, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
That sounds like a good idea to help differentiate between the adult and the children's comics. strdst_grl (call me Stardust) 17:42, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Categories relating to light novels:

The articles in these "Light Novels" all seem to be mostly Anime or Manga titles. I think we'd need an expert to clarify which, if any, were actually publshed for children. There is a very large Wikipedia:WikiProject Anime and manga group of users who might be able to advise. I would think that a single "Anime and Manga: Children's titles" category would suffice for our project. --Plad2 (talk) 14:23, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
While light novels are generally marketed to teenagers, and are functionally the Japanese equivalent of young adult novels, I don't really recommend adding the children's literature tag to them. It's going to be the anime and manga project that actually maintains the pages, and in most cases it would be overtagging. I'd recommend manually adding the tag on a case by case basis if you feel a particular title has been successful enough in English to attract attention from your project, but there are very few examples of this. Doceirias (talk) 17:23, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
Well, the project isn't meant to have a geographical bias. But from what I can see, the majority of light novels aren't really children's literature anyway, even though the genre supposedly is. strdst_grl (call me Stardust) 17:42, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
Right. They're read by high school students primarily, but it doesn't really fit the standard definition. And there's precedence for the anime and manga group covering things that would normally fall under larger groups umbrella anyway; we cover anime video game adaptions, and feature films, etc, instead of the respective projects. Doceirias (talk) 20:49, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

And some miscellaneous ones:

On a related note, are there any thoughts about tagging more categories for the project (they are often hard to find) or tagging articles within the categories which are not suitable for bot tagging? strdst_grl (call me Stardust) 20:11, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to get the various Children's Awards and Prizes categories and hierarchy sorted out at some point.--Plad2 (talk) 14:23, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
I don't think any of the categories listed above are in our project's scope. I think certain books in them might be, but it does not make sense to use those categories on the whole as a list for tagging. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:00, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Project Scope[edit]

Okay, as far as I can tell there are currently a few grey areas in the project scope. In particular, the following topics do not seem part of the scope to me, but are often tagged. What does everyone think of these topics being included in the project?

  1. General articles about genres which can be suitable for adults or children, varying from series to series (see discussions above about comic strips and light novels).
  2. Film, television, radio etc. (non-literary) adaptations of children's books.
  3. Books by children's authors which were not written for children.
  4. Disambiguation pages including an article which is a part of this project.

I am sure there are more examples, but these are all I can think of right now. strdst_grl (call me Stardust) 10:37, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

I would argue 4 should definitely be tagged. If there is a disambiguation page it makes sense that we watch to make sure people can be directed correctly. I think 3 is a clear no. 1 has been discussed above. I struggle with 2. Barkeep49 (talk) 19:31, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
Now that I actually read this through again, my opening statement was misleading - I agree that number 4 should be tagged. I just wanted some other points of view. Although bear in mind this leads to some oddities - we are currently monitoring Velveteen (disambiguation) because of a link to The Velveteen Rabbit. strdst_grl (call me Stardust) 10:33, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
1) I think is a "no". Unless we feel that we've got a lot to add to these pages, I would propose leaving them to the larger Literature or Novels Projects; 2) I think if the adaptation is also clearly for children, there's an argument that it should be included; 3) is also a "no" if it is clear that the author and publisher see them as not being for children. Crossover novels (perceived by author and publisher to be for both markets), some of which have two editions (one for children, one for adults) such as The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time or The Book Thief (which was published as an adult novel in Australia, a YA in the US and as both in the UK) should be included in our Project; I don't have a view about 4.--Plad2 (talk) 20:10, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
I' like to add three more grey areas:
  1. Authors who have written only one book but who might be notable for other reasons (eg Joe Paterno). We've discussed whether to include or not and have not yet arrived at a conclusion.
  2. Authors who have written only one book but don't appear to be notable for any other reason (eg Gordy Jones - I think he may be self-published so this could be a PROD, but what if he were published by a major publisher like George and Doris Hauman?)
  3. Authors who have written children's plays or TV scripts but no novels or picture books. Can justifiably be classified as "Category: Children's Writers" but do we include in the Children's Literature Project? (eg Bob Stutt - a Canadian puppeteer/writer). Personally I think stage plays performed in reputable public theatres should be included, but where do we stand on screenwriters?

--Plad2 (talk) 14:21, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Categories and sub-categories - WP:DUPCAT[edit]

I have a question relating to the "Category:children's writers" and its sub-categories. I was just chastised (nicely) by an editor for adding the "children's writers" category template to an article on a Norwegian author, which was already categorised as "Category:Norwegian children's writers". Personally I think that WP:DUPCAT applies in that the "Norwegian" factor (or any other nationality) is a sub-set of "Children's Writers". Indeed, WP:DUPCAT specifically refers to ethnicity as often being a "non-diffusing" sub category. My rationale being that if someone was looking for a complete list of children's writers covered by Wikipedia, they would not be able to find one under the current system which seems to indicate that if an article is in a sub-category (in this case a sub-sub-category as "Children's Writers by Nationality" is the intermediate category) it does not show in the main category. (In practice, of course, there is no consistency as several (but not all) articles are listed in both the main category and the relevant "...by nationality" category.) Views anyone?--Plad2 (talk) 21:53, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

While I see your point, I would say the existing standard of not-doubling is understandable - sub-categories are easily accessible through the main cagtegory page. I think this policy was inherited from WP:NOVELS, so you might want to check the guidelines there. strdst_grl (call me Stardust) 22:06, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
Well, it looks to me as though most articles over there are in a number of sub-categories (eg an article can be in "Irish novels", "Novels with a Gay theme" and any number of sub-categories.) They specifically state that article pages should not be listed in the main category but moved to sub-categories (a policy we don't seem to be following). I will look for other examples in case that gives us a lead.--Plad2 (talk) 22:18, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
Gosh! Just been over to Wikipedia talk:Categorization and find that this question is being debated there. I think the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Categorization#Redundancy and user friendliness is the most relevant. Ultimately, it seems that it is going to be up to us to decide how we want to do this. Consistency (which we don't have) being the most important factor. If anyone else would like to wrap their brains round whether nationality when applied to children's writers and illustrators is a "non-diffusing" sub-category or a "distinguished sub-category", or, indeed something else, feel free to join in. --Plad2 (talk) 22:46, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
I've now also looked at Wikipedia:Lists. We have a very incomplete List of children's literature authors, a List of children's non-fiction writers and 85 other Lists in this Project. If a decision is made to go down the "...by nationality" category route only, we could, perhaps, aim to offer a complete list of children's authors and illustrators in a sortable table. But that would be a major piece of work and would rely on being kept current by editors adding mages and information manually.--Plad2 (talk) 09:10, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

NovelsWikiProject Improvement Drive[edit]

At Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/Collaboration there is a new initiative to improve novel-articles. As this WikiProject covers some related content I am inviting anyone involved with this WikiProject to participate in the improvement drive. Specifically, we as a WikiProject, aim to create 5 new articles, improve 5 stubs to a higher class, and clean-up 5 articles with maintenance tags on them, all within the month of January. maclean (talk) 04:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

The Book of Everything[edit]

Hi,

  I am new to entering info in Wiki. I would like to add information to the entry for The Book of Everything as our company, Theatre of Image, is presenting a theatrical adaptation of the work which will be of interest to readers. The Book of Everything by Theatre of Image and Belvoir. 

Pls let me know if this is kosher.

Beatnut88 (talk) 07:03, 27 July 2011 (UTC)Beatnut88