Wikipedia talk:Biographies of living persons
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I am asking here in response to a question at the Teahouse and the answer that I tried to give. The question had to do with a proposed article about a 16-year-old woman in the fashion industry. I advised the use of the Articles for Creation process to get objective review of her notability and to get any non-neutral content stripped out, but also advised that, due to her age, the BLP policy would be applied even more strictly than usual. However, I don't see any specific statement in the BLP policy about minors as article subjects. Have I overlooked part of the policy, or should something be added to the policy about minors as article subjects? Robert McClenon (talk) 16:19, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
- I can't speak directly to policy on this as I don't know of any. However, as with any BLP, it would still have to be in concordance with the legal right to privacy. However, I think that's what you're already getting at. On a related note, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled (Smith v Daily Mail, 443 U.S. 97) that media outlets can write about juvenile criminals (and non-criminals), including names, despite any state laws to the opposite, due to the first and fourteen amendments. This is seemingly in opposition to the rehabilitation law in the UK and if an individual makes a claim of Right to be Forgotten for the EU. My opinion, therefore, is that you hit the nail on the head. I also believe it should follow strict BLP guidelines with no breach of confidentiality. The Haz talk 17:46, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
- I think there is good precedent here to the effect that we ignore completely the UK rules about names of criminals and of suspects--except that people who are in the UK may want to use caution themselves in writing. But that is apparently not at all the case with this particular subject. If a 16 year old is in the fashion industry on a commercial basis using their own name, I don't see how any privacy issues can possibly apply. (I have previous said otherwise in the case of sub-teen children who may have been coerced by their parents who are acting against their child's best interest, as in the young children's fashion shows found in the UK and some other countries. I'd still maintain that, on grounds of common sense and NOT TABLOID. I don't recall whether my view was supported.) DGG ( talk ) 04:13, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
- Hi Robert McClenon. While I understand (and to some degree admire) the intent, I do not believe that we should include a specific statement on minors as article subjects in policy; nor do I believe that we should apply WP:BLP more strictly for minors than usual. If we are applying WP:BLP consistently & as written, then we are also applying WP:V (incl. WP:RS), WP:NPOV (incl. WP:DUE) and WP:NOR. I believe that these provide sufficient (and necessary) protection for all living persons, regardless of age.
- In jurisdictions where information about minors (and others) is suppressed by legislation or court order, the filter is best applied at the "source", not at Wikipedia. If information is reliably sourced, and due, then it should not be WP:CENSORED. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 13:23, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
Is Talk:Hillary Rodham Clinton/April 2015 move request a BLP violation?
A proposal has been made at Talk:Hillary Rodham Clinton/April 2015 move request to change the title of the article, Hillary Rodham Clinton to Hillary Clinton. It has now been asserted that such a proposal "violates our neutrality policy, and therefore our BLP policy". Would such a title change be a BLP violation? bd2412 T 12:05, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
- There may be some BLP issues. Since both Hillary Clinton and Hillary Rodham Clinton get you to the same article, and the article has been stable(at the current Title) since 2001(almost 14 years), why would we change it? The move request lists a lot of Google data, some only listing results since 2014, that reeks of recentism. As if HRC did not exist before. Hillary Rodham was semi-notable before she added the Clinton name to hers in 1983. When she added the C to HRC, she stated the reason she kept Rodham in her name was because: "I need my own identity too". Our Naming conventions policy lists BLP reasons why we should give weight to the articles subject preference. How much weight is given isn't stated. But since our Article Title policy states "If an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed.", why change it? So perhaps a small BLP issue, but one we should consider. Dave Dial (talk) 14:28, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
- There's quite a bit of daylight between a small issue that we should consider, and a BLP violation (which sounds like something prohibited because no evidence supporting it can be found). However, I do appreciate your point of view, and your well-stated articulation of it. bd2412 T 14:34, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
e.g. assuming you're already notable, why don't we link things like a subject's Twitter, tumblr, personal website, blog, etc.?
It seems completely random in that on some people we do, and some people we do not, under EXTERNAL LINKS sections. What is the official accepted policy on this?
- What is policy on a subject's personal site? Could you please link the actual policy verbiage and section?
- What is policy on a subject's things like Twitter? Could you please link the actual policy verbiage and section?
The last two sentences of BLPSOURCES say "Material should not be added to an article when the only sourcing is tabloid journalism. When material is both verifiable and noteworthy, it will have appeared in more reliable sources." Does this mean that we can't use Tabloid Journalism if it is the only source for any content? Or is this limited to only content that specifically mentions a BLP? --Kyohyi (talk) 13:39, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
- Good question, Kyohyi. As there is no widespread agreement about which newspapers engage in "tabloid journalism" and what percentage of the time, there is no hard and fast rule. Everything needs to be judged in context, using discretion and editorial judgment. Perhaps a "tabloid" might be a good source for a recent marriage if they publish photos of the wedding, with direct quotes from the couple. But in general, we should avoid using sources with a reputation for sensationalism and rumor mongering. This is especially important for BLPs, because of the potential for causing distress to the real people our articles discuss. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 16:30, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- From what I've read of Tabloid Journalism, it's about a style of delving into a persons private life. However I've seen sources which would be considered "reliable" (having professional journalists, and editors) perform this type of reporting. Does a sources sort of "reliableness" affect whether or not an article is tabloid journalism? If for example we have a journal that is normally considered high quality and high reliability, has an article that is mostly about a persons private life that they haven't talked about at all, and you can gleam from the article that they don't want it talked about. Would that be considered Tabloid Journalism, or would the high reliability of the journal itself be a mitigating factor? --Kyohyi (talk) 13:38, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
- I would say that, broadly speaking, if the ONLY source for a particular bit of information is a tabloid, that would be a pretty strong indicator that that material is not notable or verifiable enough for an encyclopedia. In the example given above of a wedding, there would be other, better sources we could use. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 18:58, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Mention of non-notable awards in pornography articles
There is a discussion on how to address non-notable awards in pornography articles: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Pornography#Mention_of_non-notable_awards_in_articles. We'd appreciate help creating consensus on when and how such awards are mentioned in pornography biographies and related articles. Thank you. --Ronz (talk) 16:07, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- I am no prude, but every time I see comments about pornography articles, in particular about porn stars "notability" and "awards", I can't help it but cringe. - Cwobeel (talk) 14:44, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Updating Tipper Gore
Hello! I'd like to invite editors to review suggested edits I have for the Tipper Gore article. I've detailed my thoughts and proposed changes on the Talk page, but haven't had any editors reply there yet. I'm working on behalf of The Glover Park Group, friends of Tipper Gore, which means I have a conflict of interest and will not be making any edits to the article myself. To briefly summarize what you'll find on the Talk page:
- Gore's article doesn't include much about her activism and advocacy or her political work after the 1980s, so I've put together material to expand the Politics and activism section
- I've also drafted a section to house all the details about her creative work
- I've reorganized information and revised and improved some of the existing wording