Wikipedia talk:Did you know

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"Did you know...?" template
Queue T:DYK/Q
Nominations T:TDYK
Discussion WT:DYK
Rules WP:DYK
Supplementary rules WP:DYKSG
Reviewing guide WP:DYKR
Archive of DYKs WP:DYKA

This is where the Did you know section on the main page, its policies and the featured items can be discussed. Proposals for changing how Did You Know works were being discussed at Wikipedia:Did you know/2011 reform proposals.

Playing fast and loose?[edit]

To Crisco 1492: Why is the version of my George Zentmyer hook currently on the Main Page not the same as the approved version I wrote? I'm not pleased. I don't recall reading anything about editors changing hooks as they see fit. Chris Troutman (talk) 16:08, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

  • I didn't edit any of the hooks. However, I should note that copyediting has been allowed for years. What changes were made? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:33, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
    • My wording "has a type of avocado tree named after him" was changed to "has an avocado cultivar named after him" by Cwmhiraeth in Prep6. @Cwmhiraeth: I don't appreciate changes to my wording. What gives? Chris Troutman (talk) 17:08, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
Indeed, I changed the wording because the previous wording was unsatisfactory. He didn't have a tree named after him, nor is a "type of tree" a good expression, he had a cultivar named after him. The avacado is Persea americana. This is the species name and has nothing to do with George A. Zentmyer. It was a rootstock cultivar that was named after him. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:27, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
I wrote the article so yes, I know. I deliberately simplified it. If you don't like my hook the least you could do is let me know. Had I chosen to stick with the more specific wording I'd've wikified the word cultivar. In the future, please recall that editors like me are unaccustomed to your intervention. Chris Troutman (talk) 18:44, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
Hooks are routinely modified post-approval as they move to prep, or once in prep or Q, with surprisingly little pushback or argument. I do it all the time, to an extent I would have through unimaginable a year ago. Apparently most editors (let's call them "relaxed" editors) simply aren't that interested in the fine details of wording and mechanics, and are content to allow those of us who do care ("fussy" editors) to adjust as we see fit. But friction arises when the nominator is himself a "fussy" and another "fussy" comes along and tinkers. Even counting absolutely necessary grammar and usage fixes, there are too many adjustments post-nom to be pinging everyone all the time, so like it or not if you're a "fussy" you just have to keep an eye on the hook as it passes from nom to prep to Q.
I recall looking at this particular hook in prep, and wondering about the wording, but I would never have made a change such as the one mentioned here, if for no other reason than I know that all this cultivar - variety - species - etc stuff is highly technical and I don't understand it. Even if I thought I understood, in this case I'd probably open a discussion instead of just making the change, unless the article and the sources both were absolutely clear that the hook is wrong, and I think I see why the confusion crept in in the first place. It might be different if the subject were, say, math or CS. EEng (talk) 01:44, 19 January 2015 (UTC) P.S. It's too bad you can't ping people from an edit summary in order to draw their attention to a particular edit you're making. That would be perfect for these situations.
I appreciate the explanation. I'd recommend adding a sentence about these post-approval modifications in the nomination page. I did 18 DYKs prior to this one and they were never changed (because I check them on the main page) hence my belief that wording gets ironed out in the nomination. For people like me that are wedded to their words, this practice is another alienating aspect of Wikipedia. Chris Troutman (talk) 02:59, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Your hooks have probably escaped modification because you're a "fussy" editor who gets it right the first time -- no grammar boners. If, though, you're wedded to your words (I am as well -- TRUST ME) you're gonna have to keep that marriage alive by keeping an eye on your spouse and defending it against interlopers -- surely you know nothing in WP is "hands off" -- quite the opposite. EEng (talk) 08:01, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

A couple of things about Prep 1[edit]

We have the "fact":

Does it bother anyone else that "Je suis Charlie" is not a hashtag? I personally would prefer:

Also, there are two of my own hooks in the article which both relate to elections in Taunton, which given the balance that we strive for, seems a bit of overkill, should we swap one into another prep? Harrias talk 17:38, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

The Daily Telegraph source that verifies the hook doesn't use #, but arguing about it here is silly, so I'll go with consensus. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:25, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Two DYK?[edit]

Is it possible that two unrelated DYK is nominated by the same user simultaneously. Please {{ping}} me when replied, thanks.--FrankBoy (Buzz) 21:34, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:42, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
Gerda Arendt, did you remember to ping FrB.TG? EEng (talk) 01:48, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
No, I didn't forget, I thought if you have a question you should be interested enough to watch the page ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:21, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Well, unless the person specifically asks you to ping... EEng (talk) 12:07, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Oldest nominations needing DYK reviewers[edit]

With the old list archived, I've compiled a new set of the 42 oldest nominations that need reviewing. We've made good progress: only seven have been waiting over a month since they were nominated or a re-review was requested. The first section has 2 that have been waiting for over two months, the second has 5 that have been waiting over a month, and the remaining 35 have been waiting for a shorter period than that.

At the moment, 73 nominations are approved, leaving 203 of 276 nominations still needing approval. Thanks to everyone who reviews these, especially those nominations that have been waiting the longest.

Over two months:

Over one month:

Also needing review:

Please remember to cross off entries as you finish reviewing them (unless you're asking for further review), even if the review was not an approval. Many thanks! BlueMoonset (talk) 01:41, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Interesting article on an early Trans person in colonial Jamestowne (possible DYK for LGBT history)[edit]

Hello, I've been on Wikipedia for 7 years, and edited extensively, but the rigamorale of the DYK process baffles me so I don't ever even attempt to work with it. That said, I ran across an article while reviewing for AFC (where I've reviewed thousands of articles in the last few years), and one that was so unusual I was sure it was a hoax until I checked GoogleBooks and found serious academic mention.

The new article Thomas(ine) Hall covers a person in Colonial Virginia's Jamestowne who's entire gender identity was a matter of legal and social dispute. Really interesting article showing the longevity of Trans issues in the US. I'm not formally submitting this for DYK since the process seems so arcane, but mentioning this in case anyone finds it worth nominating. MatthewVanitas (talk) 05:26, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

I think the DYK nomination process is now simpler than it used to be. In any event, I will nominate the article. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:28, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Meh, you still have to do two things to make it work, and one of them is trivially easy to do wrong or simply forget. I find it particularly amusing that the instructions for step two appear on the page for step one, but disappear when you complete page one. The process should, and could, be far more automated. Maury Markowitz (talk) 12:30, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

There's hope for the world after all[edit]

It's all too easy to dismiss the planet as being filled with a bunch of sex crazed 15-seconders, but once in a while you see hopeful signs otherwise. How else to interpret the fact that some boring article on an obscure radar system got more hits than one with an image of one of the world's most famous hotties? Maury Markowitz (talk) 12:28, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Sorry to pour cold water on your optimism, but apparently many more people directly clicked through to the hottie instead of the company she worked for. The world is still hopeless, after all. :) -Zanhe (talk) 23:48, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Oh noes! Back to building the fallout shelter then. And speaking of, everyone should take a good look at the chart on page 13 of this uplifting little tome. Maury Markowitz (talk) 18:50, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Browser wars[edit]

@Astro interest:, @Jakob:, @HalfGig: Prep 4 currently says "Did you know ... that Thomas Reardon invented Internet Explorer?" I didn't, and I don't think Eric Sink, long time blogger and former Spyglass, Inc. developer who could (and, indeed, has) lay claim to have written the software that turned up as IE 1.0 ([1]) does either. And it seems the source used just says Reardon was the program manager for IE 3.0, some way down the line. Should we pull this hook, or can people think of an alternative? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 22:06, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

It says he was on the original development. I think the hook is ok but I also don't object anyone else changing it. HalfGig talk 22:26, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
The term "program manager" means something very specific here - it's Microsoft jargon for somebody who writes the functional specification and guides the long-term direction of a product. That doesn't really correspond with the layman's view of what "inventing" something is. And when I know and can verify a counter-claim for somebody else "inventing" it, things become a big cloudy. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 22:29, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
The source says that Reardon was the one person development team behind IE. I took that to mean that he was the one who invented it. --Jakob (talk) 22:50, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
I also feel it has a quirky nature without being false. HalfGig talk 23:21, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── The hook should be pulled immediately. Saying anyone "invented" IE is simply wrong. Microsoft licensed the code of the Mosaic browser in 1995, and developed IE based on the Mosaic technology. See the Mosaic article and Windows IT Pro. Reardon is merely the first Microsoft programmer, later program manager, to work on the project. -Zanhe (talk) 23:26, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Look on the bright side. Six months ago nonsense like this was getting on MP several times a week. EEng (talk) 12:12, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Zahne already pulled it. It was in prep 4 so that needs a new hook now. HalfGig talk 14:33, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Hi. This is a claim I have seen from some sources (and IE3.0 was very different from IE1.0 or IE2.0). However, I would not object to changing the hook to something like:
This is directly corroborated by the MIT Tech Review source. Astro interest (talk) 16:12, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Might I suggest was for a time -- makes it sound more like an interim status. EEng (talk) 06:57, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

A bit of <bleep>ing swearing on the front page[edit]

I'm a little bit concerned about Template:Did you know nominations/Fuck It, We'll Do It Live? It's not the first time a nomination with this opening word has happened, and this time round, it's been accepted under the DYK criteria, although not queued yet. While procedure has been followed correctly, I have this nasty feeling, possibly with Jimbo's last Wikimania speech in the back of my mind, that putting "Fuck" on the front page will not go down well. What do others think? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:59, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

  • I don't think it's anything to be worried about. It's not as if this will be the lead hook or something. G S Palmer (talkcontribs) 14:07, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Okay. The problem I have is not with the word itself, but rather being WP:BOOMERANGed back by complaints about it, since I'm the nominator. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 14:35, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Fucking Hell, that was on the main page? What Shit Brook would allow Fugging swearing on the front page? :) Its not the first time there has been swear words on the front page and it probably won't be the last. It's nothing to worry about, a few Fs and Ss aren't going to damage Wikipedia due to WP:NOTCENSORED and all that. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 12:02, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Fuck me, I've been over-reacting to this. Bollocks to it then. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:04, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
  • I think you did a great fucking job, Ritchie333. – Muboshgu (talk) 13:21, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

... and let's not forget the "Protecting Our First Amendment Liberties" part ;) - We have an article on bollocks. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:52, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Comma in Q6[edit]

Now in Queue 6, I see a comma missing behind Cardiff (hook 3), and don't understand the one after Jesus in the quirky, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:49, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Question on timing[edit]

I've typically stayed away from DYK for various reasons but dived in with a recent article. As someone new to it, I still can't figure out how the timing works. A recent article is clear for DYK (2014 Lamar Hunt U.S. Open Cup Final) and it is hard to see if it is going through the process or if I need to click a couple extra buttons or something. No big deal in the grand scheme of things but I imagine others would be frustrated (I'm secretly hoping it is delayed a couple weeks for the net round of the wikicup).Cptnono (talk) 05:37, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

At the moment, it is approved, but waiting for promotion to a prep area. I would be surprised if it lasts as long as two weeks, more likely it will be selected in the next few days, and run later this week. Harrias talk 08:19, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
@Harrias: Template:Did you know nominations/Sessue Hayakawa: Silent Cinema and Transnational Stardom was approved on 11 January but hasn't been promoted to any prep area.--Skr15081997 (talk) 15:20, 25 January 2015 (UTC)