Wikipedia talk:Did you know

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"Did you know...?" template
Queue T:DYK/Q
Nominations T:TDYK
Discussion WT:DYK
Rules WP:DYK
Supplementary rules WP:DYKSG
Reviewing guide WP:DYKR
Archive of DYKs WP:DYKA

This is where the Did you know section on the main page, its policies and the featured items can be discussed. Proposals for changing how Did You Know works were being discussed at Wikipedia:Did you know/2011 reform proposals.

There's hope for the world after all[edit]

It's all too easy to dismiss the planet as being filled with a bunch of sex crazed 15-seconders, but once in a while you see hopeful signs otherwise. How else to interpret the fact that some boring article on an obscure radar system got more hits than one with an image of one of the world's most famous hotties? Maury Markowitz (talk) 12:28, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Sorry to pour cold water on your optimism, but apparently many more people directly clicked through to the hottie instead of the company she worked for. The world is still hopeless, after all. :) -Zanhe (talk) 23:48, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Oh noes! Back to building the fallout shelter then. And speaking of, everyone should take a good look at the chart on page 13 of this uplifting little tome. Maury Markowitz (talk) 18:50, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Browser wars[edit]

@Astro interest:, @Jakob:, @HalfGig: Prep 4 currently says "Did you know ... that Thomas Reardon invented Internet Explorer?" I didn't, and I don't think Eric Sink, long time blogger and former Spyglass, Inc. developer who could (and, indeed, has) lay claim to have written the software that turned up as IE 1.0 ([1]) does either. And it seems the source used just says Reardon was the program manager for IE 3.0, some way down the line. Should we pull this hook, or can people think of an alternative? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 22:06, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

It says he was on the original development. I think the hook is ok but I also don't object anyone else changing it. HalfGig talk 22:26, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
The term "program manager" means something very specific here - it's Microsoft jargon for somebody who writes the functional specification and guides the long-term direction of a product. That doesn't really correspond with the layman's view of what "inventing" something is. And when I know and can verify a counter-claim for somebody else "inventing" it, things become a big cloudy. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 22:29, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
The source says that Reardon was the one person development team behind IE. I took that to mean that he was the one who invented it. --Jakob (talk) 22:50, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
I also feel it has a quirky nature without being false. HalfGig talk 23:21, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── The hook should be pulled immediately. Saying anyone "invented" IE is simply wrong. Microsoft licensed the code of the Mosaic browser in 1995, and developed IE based on the Mosaic technology. See the Mosaic article and Windows IT Pro. Reardon is merely the first Microsoft programmer, later program manager, to work on the project. -Zanhe (talk) 23:26, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Look on the bright side. Six months ago nonsense like this was getting on MP several times a week. EEng (talk) 12:12, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Zahne already pulled it. It was in prep 4 so that needs a new hook now. HalfGig talk 14:33, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Hi. This is a claim I have seen from some sources (and IE3.0 was very different from IE1.0 or IE2.0). However, I would not object to changing the hook to something like:
This is directly corroborated by the MIT Tech Review source. Astro interest (talk) 16:12, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Might I suggest was for a time -- makes it sound more like an interim status. EEng (talk) 06:57, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
Astro interest, your ALT hook sounds fine, as is EEng's suggestion. Please add it to the nomination page. -Zanhe (talk) 23:44, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
I've pulled this from the prep area, as the hook fact didn't appear at all in the article. Both the editor who approved the article, and the editor who promoted it to the prep area should have picked this up, it's a pretty fundamental flaw. Harrias talk 21:59, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

A bit of <bleep>ing swearing on the front page[edit]

I'm a little bit concerned about Template:Did you know nominations/Fuck It, We'll Do It Live? It's not the first time a nomination with this opening word has happened, and this time round, it's been accepted under the DYK criteria, although not queued yet. While procedure has been followed correctly, I have this nasty feeling, possibly with Jimbo's last Wikimania speech in the back of my mind, that putting "Fuck" on the front page will not go down well. What do others think? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:59, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

  • I don't think it's anything to be worried about. It's not as if this will be the lead hook or something. G S Palmer (talkcontribs) 14:07, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Okay. The problem I have is not with the word itself, but rather being WP:BOOMERANGed back by complaints about it, since I'm the nominator. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 14:35, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Fucking Hell, that was on the main page? What Shit Brook would allow Fugging swearing on the front page? :) Its not the first time there has been swear words on the front page and it probably won't be the last. It's nothing to worry about, a few Fs and Ss aren't going to damage Wikipedia due to WP:NOTCENSORED and all that. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 12:02, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Fuck me, I've been over-reacting to this. Bollocks to it then. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:04, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
  • I think you did a great fucking job, Ritchie333. – Muboshgu (talk) 13:21, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

... and let's not forget the "Protecting Our First Amendment Liberties" part ;) - We have an article on bollocks. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:52, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Comma in Q6[edit]

Now in Queue 6, I see a comma missing behind Cardiff (hook 3), and don't understand the one after Jesus in the quirky, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:49, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

I've altered the wording in hook 3 slightly so that it reads better (in my opinion anyway), and removed the comma in the final hook. Harrias talk 21:50, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:03, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Question on timing[edit]

I've typically stayed away from DYK for various reasons but dived in with a recent article. As someone new to it, I still can't figure out how the timing works. A recent article is clear for DYK (2014 Lamar Hunt U.S. Open Cup Final) and it is hard to see if it is going through the process or if I need to click a couple extra buttons or something. No big deal in the grand scheme of things but I imagine others would be frustrated (I'm secretly hoping it is delayed a couple weeks for the net round of the wikicup).Cptnono (talk) 05:37, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

At the moment, it is approved, but waiting for promotion to a prep area. I would be surprised if it lasts as long as two weeks, more likely it will be selected in the next few days, and run later this week. Harrias talk 08:19, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
@Harrias: Template:Did you know nominations/Sessue Hayakawa: Silent Cinema and Transnational Stardom was approved on 11 January but hasn't been promoted to any prep area.--Skr15081997 (talk) 15:20, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Harrias! Does this question come up sometimes? If so it might be worth putting a note somewhere. There is a lot of information and I poked around without finding anything. Of course, I could have completely missed it and will feel silly once I realize it.Cptnono (talk) 19:12, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Top Totty DYK[edit]

I've just been told that Top Totty has been moved into the prep areas. This is wrong as it is an april fools day hook and was in the april fools day area and shouldn't be running now. Can someone please remove it from the prep areas and put it back for april fools day? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 23:12, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Or at least wait for Easter. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:14, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Never mind, I have reverted and put it back into the AFD holding area myself. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 23:35, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
I think you mean DYK. :) G S Palmer (talkcontribs) 23:57, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
No, AFD is short for April Fools Day. There's a separate nominations page for that day. --Jakob (talk) 00:00, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Can Wikipedia just delete a whole day like that?! Scandalous. Martinevans123 (talk) 00:22, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
Stop writing so small, I can barely hear you. Harrias talk 01:38, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Older nominations needing DYK reviewers[edit]

I've compiled a new set of the 36 oldest nominations that need reviewing. The first section has those 3 that have been waiting over a month, and the remaining 33 have been waiting for a shorter period than that.

At the moment, 102 nominations are approved, leaving 222 of 324 nominations still needing approval. Thanks to everyone who reviews these, especially those nominations that have been waiting the longest.

Over one month:

Also needing review:

Please remember to cross off entries as you finish reviewing them (unless you're asking for further review), even if the review was not an approval. Many thanks! BlueMoonset (talk) 03:29, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Prep 4 needs a new lead hook[edit]

The image is not used in the article String Quartets, Op. 50 (Haydn) as per DYK rule, and is of a person quite tangential to the topic. Need to either move it to a non-lead slot or use the image of Haydn, which is used in the article. -Zanhe (talk) 10:41, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

I've moved the hook to the second slot of Prep 5. Someone can pick a new lead hook from the dozens currently approved. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:27, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
I've restored the hook to the lead position after the image was added to the article and an explanation was left on my talk page. -Zanhe (talk) 00:37, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Just mentioning something which is quite tangential to this topic ... that previously existing image in the article is not Haydn, but King Frederick William II of Prussia. MANdARAX  XAЯAbИAM 03:06, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing it out. The caption of the image was a bit misleading; I've changed it. -Zanhe (talk) 03:16, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Prep areas[edit]

Do you have to be an administrator to move hooks to the prep areas? I'd be happy to lend a hand, but am not an administrator. MeegsC (talk) 17:10, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

No, building sets in the prep areas can be done by anyone. Harrias talk 19:14, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
MeegsC, it's great that you want to do this. You'll want to read over the WP:DYKSG#Rules of thumb for preparing updates and T:TDYK#How to promote an accepted hook for useful information on the process. Also, be sure to check the approved nomination to be sure the reviewer didn't miss anything important, and the hook facts check out as being in the article and in the inline cited sources. For example, we've had two lead hooks lately where the image in the nomination wasn't in the article; only images from the article are eligible, and they must be free. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:53, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Prep 6 lead hook[edit]

Sorry, I have somehow managed to overlook for the last few weeks that the hook for Dog Island Lighthouse has lost a bit of its hookiness. What happened was that a newish reviewer edited the hook, instead of providing an Alt hook. I then provided the original hook as Alt1 and gave an explanation why I thought that was a better hook. This was agreed, but then Alt1 got crossed out, and not the original hook; instead, the original hook was further reworded. My mistake for not spotting this; it happened some weeks ago. Can I please request that somebody swaps it over to Alt1; there's no difference in hook fact behind any of the variations. I could do it myself, but thought it better to request somebody else to do it: Schwede66 02:15, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

If you want to change the hook, the nomination should go back to the nomination area, since the first hook fact ("marine engineer for New Zealand") doesn't appear in all the articles. Do you want me to return it to the nom area? Yoninah (talk) 10:08, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
In principle I would support that, but that would give me the chance to sneak Jaywick and its picture to the top on the same prep set, so I'll stay out of the way of this and leave it up to the rest of you. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 16:06, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
@Yoninah: No. We had the discussion in the nomination already ("Question to anybody here - do all the hook facts need to be confirmed in all three articles? I'm asking because Balfour's drowning has nothing to do with Dog Island or its lighthouse, so it would be totally out of place in those articles.") and you yourself responded: "I have since seen other editors waive this requirement, especially for multiple hooks such as this, where the facts don't fit into every article." So why do you want to relitigate this now? Or do you feel that the drowning doesn't have to be mentioned in all three articles, but the fact that he was a marine engineer should be stated? Schwede66 18:49, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Past practice has only required a hook fact to be present in one article for multi-article hooks. See Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 94#Hook-fact in multi-hooks for a past discussion on this concern. --Allen3 talk 19:15, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I think the marine engineer part should be stated in the other articles, or else readers will be looking all over the place trying to figure out who's the marine engineer. That title could easily be added to his name in Dog Island Lighthouse and Dog Island, New Zealand, and then I'm fine with ALT1. Yoninah (talk) 23:05, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done Never mind, I added the title and cited it in the other 2 articles, and replaced the hook in Prep 6 before it gets promoted to the queue. Yoninah (talk) 23:19, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, team! Schwede66 00:15, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

My DYK Hook[edit]

One of my hooks that I nominated was accepted and asked to be moved into the queue. It was never moved and I was wondering the reasoning behind this. The hook I nominated is here Template:Did you know nominations/Broadway Limited. Eurodyne (talk) 01:50, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

We currently have a large backlog of approved hooks—88 at the moment, which is lower than in recent days. Given that we use only 14 approved hooks per day, it will take a while before all of them will be promoted, and it's fairly random what the order will be, including future approvals. Sometimes it's quick, sometimes it's quite slow. Please be patient; it will be promoted. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:03, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict) @Eurodyne: there's no reason. No one has gotten around to promoting it yet. At the moment all the prep areas are full. It will probably be promoted soon, once the preps need to be filled again. G S Palmer (talkcontribs) 02:06, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
So it won't grow stale? Eurodyne (talk) 02:26, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
@Eurodyne: I had the same worry on my first DYK, but no, it won't. G S Palmer (talkcontribs) 02:33, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
What we really need is for an administrator to move things from prep into the queue; that's been the holdup of late. MeegsC (talk) 16:17, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
I've promoted prep 5, but both prep 6 and prep 1 have my hooks in them; the rules don't prohibit me moving those prep areas into queues, but I'd rather another admin did it if possible. But if things start to back up, or look like going into backlog, I'll do so. Harrias talk 22:32, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
@Eurodyne: I've promoted your hook to Prep 6. -Zanhe (talk) 21:16, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Prep 6[edit]

"... that email letters about Angelina Jolie and mentioning films set in the pre-civil rights era to President Obama are among leaked confidential data belonging to Sony Pictures Entertainment?" I couldn't understand it without reading the article. Does the email about Angelina Jolie also mention films? (No, it isn't the same email, and it doesn't just mention films, it's about mentioning films.) Does it mean Obama in his youth before civil rights? If I'm not the only person who had that problem, you could add a few words, but it's already the longest hook. Or you could remove a phrase somewhere. Art LaPella (talk) 07:01, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

  • George Ho, I pulled the Sony Pictures hook from the Prep. Sorry about that. It didn't make sense to me, either. And it might have been moved up to a Queue before you had time to correct it. — Maile (talk) 15:35, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Bangalore Nagarathnamma in Queue 4[edit]

There appears to be a serious spelling error in the hook and article for Bangalore Nagarathnamma, which claims she was a "consort artist". Unsure what exactly what this term means, I investigated further. The supporting source, available here, uses the term "concert artist" while both the article and hook employ a different term despite the use of quote marks highlighting the words. --Allen3 talk 16:10, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

I've double checked what you've said, and agreed, so I changed the article and the hook to "concert". To be honest, I dislike the entire wording of the hook, and don't like the use of so many quotes on the main page without attribution, but that is just my own opinion. Harrias talk 21:33, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
There's a lot wrong here, since we're on the subject. The article says that something or someone "catapulted her into a concert artist" in Madras, and I think most readers will want to know whether any injuries resulted from this unorthodox encounter. Beyond that, the claim that she was the "first female artist to pay income tax" needs to be qualified -- is this worldwide, or just India, and whose claim is this? EEng (talk) 22:09, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
I didn't really read the rest of the article. Given that this is scheduled to run in just under two hours, should we be looking at replacing it? Harrias talk 22:14, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Generally when Person A finds one error, then Person B finds two more right off, it suggests the reviewer may have been having a bad day. Best to swap it out and recheck at leisure. EEng (talk) 22:17, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Pulled and replaced with Template:Did you know nominations/Preity Zinta filmography, which has left Prep 6 short again! Harrias talk 22:28, 28 January 2015 (UTC)


I remember something like that a synopsis in an article about a book or opera doesn't need inline citation. Is it right, and is there a guideline? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:17, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: MOS:PLOT: "The plot summary for a work, on a page about that work, does not need to be sourced with in-line citations, as it is generally assumed that the work itself is the primary source for the plot summary".
Also clarified at WP:DYKSG#D2: "A rule of thumb is one inline citation per paragraph, excluding ... plot summaries". 23W 23:34, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
Thank you, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:38, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Move to 3 sets per day?[edit]

With over 300 hooks in waiting, nearly 100 approved, and near full queues it would seem to be a good time to up things to 3 sets per day. Thoughts? --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:15, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

  • oppose Until there is six-sigma avoidance of errors, we should go to 1 set a day from 2. Hipocrite (talk) 20:21, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Support I was just waiting for this, since the wikicup started up again we have had a large influx and it is best to speed it up a bit because otherwise come February, the talk page will be bombarded with people demanding their hooks run quickly. For example Template:Did you know nominations/Shankill United Predators F.C. has been green ticked and been waiting for promotion since 5th of Jan. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 20:24, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose at this time This is perhaps a good time for me to trot out the nom stats I've been keeping for the last few months (though in early January I got lazy, though now I guess I'll start again):
The two numbers on each line of the stats are AAA, UUU:
  • AAA is the approved reserve, the total of: hooks in Q + hooks in Prep + approved nominations not yet promoted to prep. With the current reserve of 138, and running 14 hooks/day, the average time from approval to main-page appearance is 138/14 = 10 days -- that's a while, but not excessive.
  • UUU is the unapproved backlog: The number of noms on the big board, minus the number of those which are approved.
The current values are AAA=138, UUU=235.
  • First the backlog: it was almost 350 when we eliminated the QPQ exception for non-self-noms, on Nov 21 2014. Immediately the backlog began a steady drop until it reached just about 200, where it sort of stalled. Then about 2 weeks ago it began to grow again, to where it stands now at about 235.
  • Approved reserve: It has at times been as low as zero, but in the months before Nov 21 it fluctuated between about 50 and 100. Since Nov 21, as the backlog dropped the reserve has began a definite climb with lots of wiggle) to where it's now about 140.
From this I conclude that the rule change was a very, very good idea.
Where we are right now is where we ought to be:
  • Qs are full, preps are full -- hooks spend lots of time in prep + Q, giving plenty of time for many eyes to look them over. This is a big reason errors are down so much compared to 6 months ago.
  • Plenty of hooks waiting for promotion -- easy to put balanced prep sets together.
We would be foolish to do anything to disturb this situation, until we truly have a surfeit of approved hooks. Here's the protocol I've been advocating for some time:
  • The normal state is 14 hooks (i.e. 2 sets of 7) per day
  • The moment the approved reserve rises from 149 to 150, go to 21 hooks per day; when the reserve drops to 100 again (which should take about 7 days) return to 14 hooks/day.
  • The moment the approved reserve drops from 50 to 49, go to 7 hooks per day; when the reserve rises to 100 again (which should take about 7 days) return to 14 hooks/day.
So I advise that we stay at 14 hooks/day unless and until the approved reserve hits 150. Sometimes an approved hook gets consistently overlooked for some reason (buried among large complex discussions, etc.) and individual cases like that can be pointed out at T:DYK. It's not a reason to accelerate our burn rate. EEng (talk) 21:19, 29 January 2015 (UTC) It wouldn't hurt to recommend a practice, when building sets, to really try to start with the oldest approved hook -- this is easily seen on the 'scoreboard'.
  • Oppose there is no rush, no deadline, it's better to keep the quality high than focus on the churn. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:23, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict) Oppose: WP:TLDR, but it looks like EEng (talk · contribs) has some statistics to back up what I felt anyway, that we should stick with the current format for a while longer. Harrias talk 21:24, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm always happy when people just agree with me from the start without worrying about reasons -- saves time that way. EEng (talk) 21:28, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose per EEng's arguments. In past 3 days, less than 10 nominations/per day have being made, insufficient even for 2 set a day. --User:Vigyani 02:28, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Hold per EEng's stats. I like the algorithm so we can review when numbers change. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:02, 30 January 2015 (UTC)