Wikipedia talk:Hatnote

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Misuse of hatnote?[edit]

I was reverted by AussieLegend, wrongly it seemed by me and explained and then reverted again. Is a hatnote forbidden for non-traditional things (see "GENERIC TEXT")? I could have used, not-a-hatnote, but it seemed ok and is used in other places without helping "readers locate a different article". In this case however, it helps locate Windows XP.. comp.arch (talk) 18:55, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

My take is that AussieLegend was quite correct in removing that hatnote. I would have removed it as well. such announcements are not at all what hatnotes are used for on Wikipedia. olderwiser 19:24, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Agree with the previous, that is not what hatnotes are for. See WP:LEGITHAT. It would be fine material to include in the article, just not in a hatnote. Jeh (talk) 19:49, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, but see: Talk:Windows_XP#Security_announcement._Reverted_-_breaking_the_rules. about this security issue that might allow for an exception and its rationale. comp.arch (talk) 23:53, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a consumer protection resource. You've attempted to use the hatnote format in a manner fundamentally inconsistent with its accepted purpose and Wikipedia's mission. —David Levy 00:14, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Hi. As I said that page, I am afraid it is a gross violation of our neutral point of view policy and suffers from systematic bias. WP:IAR is a mean of protecting Wikipedia's mission when policies interfere with it; this is not the case here. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 00:32, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation of similar-sounding foreign names?[edit]

Is it appropriate to use the {{Distinguish}} template to forestall confusion between names (or other words/phrases) — especially non-English names — that are completely unrelated except that they sound very similar?

For example, there have recently been content disputes at the articles for Boko Haram (a Nigerian terrorist group) and Procol Harum (a British rock band) — some people want to put a hatnote on each of these articles to alert readers that it is "not to be confused with" the other article, while others have insisted this is inappropriate because the two entities are totally unrelated and (presumably) no one is going to confuse them. I, personally, am inclined at the moment to support inclusion of the hatnote in a case like this, but I'd like to hear what others say (including possibly a pointer to an existing guideline if one exists). — Richwales (no relation to Jimbo) 17:34, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

No, there's no need for hatnotes where one part of a title sounds like one part of another title. {{Distinguish}} could be used on Haram and Harum, but how is the reader looking for Procol Harum supposed to have reached Boko Haram incorrectly? Or vice versa? -- JHunterJ (talk) 17:37, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
They could in theory if we had a speech interface to WP, but we don't, and though there are some on computers and now phones dealing with their inaccuracies is I think well beyond the scope of this encyclopaedia. Besides for in particular non-English titles there are often far too many possibilities, for different degrees of comprehension of the native language, regional and national English accents (the pen-pin merger for example). Boko Haram and Procol Harum seem especially dissimilar to me so need no disambiguation. Maybe they sound similar in some accents but that's not something WP should have to deal with.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 18:00, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
Hi. Most of our disambiguation efforts goes into totally unrelated names. For example Argus Monitor and Argus monitor. So, I say yes, any reasonable similarity needs disambiguation, though I do understand that attempting to disambiguate Knight and Night surely makes everyone angry.
I say include them. If someone heard a friend mention a band Procul Harum, and this person was familiar with the terrorist group, they might reasonable assume the band and group had the same name. They would then expect the hatnote on Boko. Let them have it. Ego White Tray (talk) 21:25, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

The use of some section hatnotes contradicts this guideline.[edit]

Section hatnotes such as {{See also}} and {{Details}} are frequently used, yet they are at odds with how this guideline suggests hatnotes be used, i.e. to help readers locate a different article they might be seeking. These templates, as opposed to {{Main}} (which appropriately directs readers to the main topic article summarised in the section), give undue weight to links which should normally be featured after the article text, and distract readers from the actual content of the section. For example, in many city articles, under the Culture section, there is a see also hatnote linking to lists of theatres, cinemas, museums, etc. in the city, which I find distracting. This is comparable to WP:RELATED, which is listed under this guideline as an improper use of (article) hatnotes. I think the use of such section hatnotes should be discouraged. --Paul_012 (talk) 15:54, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

If the guideline contradicts common use, it's the guideline the one which needs to be amended. Though the example you cite is adequate, and it doesn't really contradict this guideline. As you note, WP:RELATED discourages article hatnotes; but that's because articles have a stand-alone See Also collection links, and sections don't have it. In the Culture section, if prose doesn't lend itself to mention the city theatres or museums, it's reasonable to inform readers that a list exists about them. Diego (talk) 21:43, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
I wonder if changing these templates to section footnotes (moving them to the bottom of sections instead) would reduce the distraction and improve article flow. --Paul_012 (talk) 10:00, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
That would make them attached to the header of the next section, which will be totally unrelated. Seriously, what is it that you find distracting about section hatnotes? I find its current placement utterly convenient. When navigating from the table of contents, I often click on the link to the section and instantly see that there's a "See also", "Main article" or "Further details" link, so I know that there is expanded coverage in Wikipedia for the sub-topic beyond what the current article provides. That is a huge benefit that shouldn't be lost in an attempt to hide related links, which should be reasonably prominent anyway per Wikipedia:BUILDTHEWEB. Diego (talk) 12:59, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
Hello, Diego. Allow me to remind you of a prevalent form of edit that is not according to guideline: Vandalism. It is prevalent, yet we don't change our policies to favor vandalism for one good reason. This guideline violation is just like that; its excessive use is simply disruptive to Wikipedia's mission because contributors use when they are in a hurry to make the reader stop reading the current article and go to the other.
Nevertheless, I do believe that their use outside article space is justifiable. Policy pages and help pages, for instance, are several standalone sections in one page. So, yes, they need standalone "See also" of their own too. In that light, I find Paul's suggestion very reasonable.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 21:33, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Multiple hatnotes[edit]

What are the common practices about using more than one hatnote template in the same section? I didn't see anything about it on the page or in the archives. Is it avoided? Not a big deal? Might be worth mentioning on the page since it's something I've wondered a few times. For instance, both a {{Main}} and {{See also}} template in a section that spins out a few articles summary style. czar  13:44, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, I'm not sure I would call those hatnotes, but I'm not sure what you call them. In my view, there should only be one in this case - so at United States#History you would only link to History of the United States and to no other article. If there is something else to link to, work it into the text. Ego White Tray (talk) 14:31, 10 July 2014 (UTC)