Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Ireland-related articles

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Shortcut:


Irish parliament[edit]

WP:IRE-IRL and National Day of Commemoration[edit]

One IP hoping southeast England editor and one registrared editor using an IP, have both being editing the infobox and catergory list, just IP editor and IP/registrared editor. Both adding ROI in the info box, and adjusting a Ireland cat to a ROI one that doesnt exist. This is the third article that I have edited over a period of months where a pop-up s/e England IP has reverted me (see above for one) and the other user Dalriata111 (talk · contribs) has been on here awhile as an IP, set up an account main edits are GB-->UK and Ireland-->ROI (claims ROI is the name of the state since the ROI act). Now some advice and imput please. Murry1975 (talk) 14:08, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

IMOS on a side note[edit]

This edit added Banner o Airlann to the flag of Ireland article. Two things, firstly a quick search doesnt throw-up anything, and secondly, as far as I am away we dont use U/S on articles state centric. Again imput please. Murry1975 (talk) 14:13, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Bagenalstown/Muine Bheag[edit]

The IMOS states "Where the English- and Irish-language names are different... and the Irish name is official and has gained favour in English, use the official Irish name (Muine Bheag, not Bagenalstown)." Bad example, as Bagenalstown is still far more commonly used that Muine Bheag. Is there a better example? BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 13:23, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Cobh rather than Queenstown. Dún Laoghaire rather than Kingstown (or Dunleary). Port Laoise rather than Maryborough or Leix. I would disagree in relation to Muine Bheag itself though, it seems to be in common use going by Google. Gaelmise (talk) 16:38, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Bagenalstown - 276,000 results. Muine Bheag - 176,000 results. The Dún Laoghaire example is a good one (Irish name used instead of an anglicised version); the others, not really, as they were places that were renamed. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 17:51, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
I recommend simply changing it to Dún Laoghaire/Dunleary. The examples in a MOS should be unambiguous, and the application of the MOS should be thrashed out on the individual article talk page, if necessary. Scolaire (talk) 23:57, 25 November 2014 (UTC)
Yes I thought Bagenalstown was more common, I'm surprised Muine Bheag occurs so often. Dmcq (talk) 08:33, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
I don't really see what is ambiguous in the case of Dún Laoghaire. The Irish version of the name clearly has gained favor in English use. Gaelmise (talk) 12:06, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
Oops! Looking at the edit I've realized that Dún Laoghaire is not appropriate at all. It is supposed to illustrate the situation where the English- and Irish-language names are different. So, if it was still called "Kingstown", but Dún Laoghaire was used more commonly in English, it would fit the bill. That is not the case, however, and Dún Laoghaire is really an exception to the previous rule, that if the English- and Irish-language names are the same or very nearly the same, but the spellings differ, you use the English spelling. "Queenstown" and "Maryborough" are similarly unsuitable, because they are not current names. Regretfully, I am going to have to revert to "Muine Bheag, not Bagenalstown" unless and until a better example of different, current names is found, or it is decided to change the wording of the MOS. Scolaire (talk) 19:14, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
No worries. Will put my thinking cap on... BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 20:31, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
If it's so hard to think of a case where the rule applies, is it worth bothering to have the rule at all? jnestorius(talk) 10:04, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Use of Ireland and Republic of Ireland[edit]

Can anyone direct me to the archived discussion/vote that led to the current MOS for 'Use of Ireland and Republic of Ireland'? Gob Lofa (talk) 18:32, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Here, and here (two sections), easy to find if you read the archives. Murry1975 (talk) 18:39, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
I was hoping to avoid trudging through a lot of archives by catching the attention of someone who knew exactly where to go. Both of the links you gave are from after whenever the real debate occurred and accept the IMOS as a given, they're just tinkering around the edges. Gob Lofa (talk) 12:12, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Do you mean the Poll on Ireland article names, Gob Lofa? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bastun (talkcontribs) 23:49, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
No, I'm searching for the source for the blanket insistence that all links to ROI must be pipes and that when both the state and the island are being discussed, 'Republic of' must be dropped in favour of 'island of'. Gob Lofa (talk) 12:51, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
If you're talking about IMOS itself, then you have no choice but to trawl back through the archives. That section is not the result of a single discussion/vote, but has evolved over several years, and is the result of consensus arrived at in different discussions at different pages and forums (or sometimes conventions that arose over time without there being a definitive discussion/vote, as is the case with pipelinking, for instance). The discussions on Ireland, island of Ireland and Republic of Ireland largely took place between about August 2008 and September 2009 at the respective article talk pages, Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Ireland-related articles/Ireland disambiguation task force and its talk page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ireland article names, WT:IECOLL and the poll. Pipelinking was one of the issues that were meant to be discussed after the naming poll ended, but by then everybody seems to have accepted the pipelinking solution, because that, and other, discussions never took place. IMOS was edited at various times during those discussions to try to reflect current consensus. The second discussion that Murry linked to above was where we talked about tidying the resulting guideline so that it was concise, precise, informative and in line with current conventions.
It's not particularly helpful to use phrases like "blanket insistence". If you are dissatisfied with the wording of IMOS you can always make suggestions for change. Scolaire (talk) 19:25, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
Ta, I'll have a look. Gob Lofa (talk) 20:33, 7 December 2014 (UTC)