Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Japan-related articles

WP:VG/GL#Non-English games

Archives of this discussion can be found at /VGGL and /VGGL2

What constitutes what we call the revised/modified Hepburn system?

User:Unnecessary stuff has found publications by the Library of Congress that do not use the form of Hepburn romanization that User:Mujaki claims is what is in reality the "revised" or "modified" system of Hepburn romanization. Discussion on how we should deal with Hepburn romanization is welcome on its talk page.—Ryulong (竜龙) 09:44, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

My contention has been that for the most part, most non-scholarly RSes use a modified version of revised Hepburn (not to be confused with modified Hepburn) that does not use macrons. Further, scholarly use of macrons is inconstant at best, even by sources that use them (ie some words use macrons properly, but they'll drop them on other irregardless of whether they are common English words like Tokyo or less common words like daimyo). Therefore imo the most common form used today is a variation of revised hepburn that simply drops the use nacron and its become increasingly more common.∞陣内Jinnai 18:23, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, we're trying to determine what is the traditional system and what is the revised/modified system. Apparently, the traditional system does not refer to the first edition of the Hepburn dictionary, but one of its subsequent editions, and the revised/modified system refers to the system employed by the Kenkyusha company dictionaries, rather than one of the subsequent editions of Hepburn's dictionaries.—Ryulong (竜龙) 23:39, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

There are a bunch of mini- (and some not so mini-)discussions with him. Which section specifically asks about that and if so, how will it affect this page?∞陣内Jinnai 03:49, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

The most recent thread on Talk:Hepburn romanization—Ryulong (竜龙) 03:50, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Okay. Although I would like to know where it says a specific version of Hepburn is used by the Library of Congress. This official government source does not state what version.∞陣内Jinnai 04:24, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

THE MODIFIED Hepburn system of Romanization as employed in Kenkuysha's New Japanese-English Dictionary (Tokyo, 1931; American edl, Cambridge, Harvard University Press, 1942) with further modifications as listed in Cataloging Service Bull. 119:33-41, Fall 1976.

—Ryulong (竜龙) 04:29, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

I found later editions of the Cataloging Service Bulletin that cover Japanese. This uses ā for あゝ, and doesn't cover it but fixes some errata. So it seems that ああ is ā and ええ is ē, but いい is not ī if we go with the ANSI form.—Ryulong (竜龙) 04:45, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Here's an HTML copy of the rules, where Ë is ō, Õ is ū, and ± is ā it seems.—Ryulong (竜龙) 04:47, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

2009 update. Basically says to follow Kenkyusha's 3rd edition.∞陣内Jinnai 04:59, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

That's no different from the 1997 document, actually. However, the 4th and 5th editions of the Kenkyusha use a different scheme than the 3rd edition. The 3rd seems to use ā and ē, while the 5th uses aa and ee and also does not identify おお as ō, but rather as oo. See some discussion at wikt:Wiktionary:Beer parlour#Japanese transliteration - traditional or revised Hepburn transliteration? where I have been raising similar issues on Wiktionary's undefined system.—Ryulong (竜龙) 05:08, 17 December 2011 (UTC)