Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Text formatting

Ambiguity in MOS:BOLD

MOS:BOLD#Other uses says "Use boldface in the remainder of the article only in a few special cases:", followed by a list. This is ambiguous: it could mean either "Use boldface in the remainder of the article only in the following special cases:" or "Use boldface in the remainder of the article only in a few special cases, such as:". Removal of this ambiguity would render some discussions of other special cases, such as are found here and in the archives, unnecessary.

The special case that interests me is the bolding of the topic of each item in an embedded list. The main MOS page does this several times, for example here, and I don't see why any part of the MOS would want to proscribe something that its authors themselves find useful. But I ubderstand from reading past threads here that some projects do proscribe it, and that some editors would like this generalised. I don't really care what the decision is, but it would be good to remove the ambiguity MOS-wide rather than project by project and issue by issue. --Stfg (talk) 11:15, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

There is no ambiguity, the list show those cases where it can be used; to include "such as" would certainly be introducing ambiguity.

I appreciate that you think there is a need to put boldface into child lists, but as I said on the embedded lists talk page, until MoS is changed to show "child lists" as an acceptable place to use boldface it should not be used there - hence my removing it. It has little to do with my edits being against consensus, as you have insinuated on the embedded lists talk page, but more with the fact that it is not included in the list of appropriate uses on the MoS page - editing in line with MoS would surely be unlikely to be seen as against established consensus?

There is also the matter of boldface being used on that page to highlight, as it is in the previous sections where boldface is used on both sides of normal prose and list, as you know boldface is not used within prose and so it can only be either a hang-over from a time when such use was acceptable, or is being used for emphasis.

It is certainly not useful to have boldface in the middle of prose, and I think it would be unwise to begin opening a floodgate to massive amounts of boldface being used all over pages where editors think something should be highlighted. Chaosdruid (talk) 16:24, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

I thought I had explained the ambiguity, and am not sure how to do so further. In the case of embedded lists, I thought I had also explained that, while I personally think one approach more consistent (with the MOS main page) than another, I don't really mind about it. If nobody objects to replacing "only in a few special cases" with "only in the following special cases", to make it clear that the list excludes all other cases, then that would reflect your position as I understand it, and would give the clarity I seek. How about it?

I am in full agreement with your last two paragraphs. --Stfg (talk) 19:42, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Colors and neutrality

I'm just wondering, should it be mentioned that the use of colors in an article should not be used in order to portray a certain point of view? ViperSnake151  Talk  14:52, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

What exactly do you mean by that? I don't think it's an issue for the Manual of Style. It is not a style issue so much as a neutrality issue. I would think it is already implicitly covered by NPOV. MsBatfish (talk) 08:51, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Papal encyclicals

Do papal encyclicals take italics? Are they more like books (which do) or essays and papers (which don't), or is style established somewhere? I tend to think they do, but usage is mixed. To take random examples, they appear split: Ecclesiam Suam, Etsi Nos, Providentissimus Deus, Mirari Vos, Mysterium Fidei (encyclical), Dilectissima Nobis, Qui Pluribus. Should we add papal encyclical to either the do or don't list for consistency? Station1 (talk) 21:40, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Italics for names of spacecraft

I've started a discussion here on whether italics should be used for names of spacecraft (cf/ those for ships), and if so whether this should be explicitly mentioned in the MoS - any input there would be appreciated. Thanks, Shimgray | talk | 21:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

"Scare quoted" words/phrases

I noticed two different passages concerning the use of "scare quotes" in the Manual of Style:

• Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Text formatting#How not to apply emphasis says: Quotation marks for emphasis of a single word or phrase, or scare quotes, are discouraged.
  
• Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Quotation marks says: ...other uses of quotation marks such as those for titles of songs, chapters, episodes, unattributable aphorisms, literal strings, "scare-quoted" passages...
  

To me, reading the latter when one hasn't read the former would seem to imply that scare quotes are an acceptable use of quotation marks in articles. Which is it? Do we need more clarity? I know it's not exactly a direct contradiction, but it isn't clear and people reading the latter section could easily assume (as I did) that use of scare quotes is fine. Personally, I think that the use of scare quotes should be accepted in articles, when necessary. I have seen many articles where they are used and where I think their use is beneficial, for example to signify that the word or phrase does not have its usual, literal or conventional meaning, or is only applicable in that context.
So, what is our stance on scare quotes and can we change the wording in the MOS to reflect that more clearly? Thanks. -MsBatfish (talk) 08:45, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

The later statement is just defining the scope of the discussion. It doesn't take any stance on whether scare quotes are appropriate or not. As I understand it, scare quotes are acceptable, but discouraged. In other words, there are certain contexts in which their use is appropriate, but those contexts are few and far between. Scare quotes are one of those things (like flag icons) that tend to proliferate like the plague unless you explicitly discourage them. Kaldari (talk) 22:38, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Font Size

What is the standard font size of Wikipedia for normal text in the aricle?--76.31.238.174 (talk) 02:29, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

are titles of masses italicized?

Are titles of masses supposed to be italicized? Some articles italicize them, but others do not. This seems pretty inconsistent to me. --Ixfd64 (talk) 19:52, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

The titles should be in italics if they refer to the name of a mass, e.g. Verdi's Messa da Requiem, Beethoven's Missa Solemnis, but works like Mozart's Requiem or Bach's Mass in B minor are not. Can you give an example of the inconsistency you observed? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:13, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Missa brevis Sancti Joannis de Deo by Franz Haydn would be one example. Most articles that link to it do not have it italicized. --Ixfd64 (talk) 17:56, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

That article title is not italicised and I think correctly so. Its title is more in the category of Mass in B minor than Missa Solemnis. It's different when this Haydn mass is called Little Organ Mass or when referring to his Missa in tempore belli or Missa in angustiis (where the article title is erroneously capitalised).

PS: I think the word "mass" should not be capitalised, as it is in this section's header and its 1st sentence. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:00, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree that it probably shouldn't be capitalized. If nobody minds, I'm going to change all instances of the word to lowercase in mass (music). --Ixfd64 (talk) 01:11, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Italicization of English as if it were a foreign language

FYI: Pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere.

Template talk:Lang-en#Remove italicization from Template:Lang-en may be of interest, for its connection to MOS:ITALICS. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ɖ∘¿¤þ   Contrib. 12:41, 1 March 2012 (UTC)