Wikipedia talk:Non-free content

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Peacedove.svg The project page associated with this talk page is an official policy on Wikipedia. Policies have wide acceptance among editors and are considered a standard for all users to follow. Please review policy editing recommendations before making any substantive change to this page. Always remember to keep cool when editing. Changes to this page do not immediately change policy anyway, so don't panic.
WikiProject Fair use
This project page is part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Fair use, a project that aims to monitor and improve the use of non-free content on Wikipedia, prevent copyright infringement, and further our free content mission. If you would like to help, please see the project page for more information.

Suggested addition to NFCC#9: Collaspible content[edit]

I found that the template {{Infobox software}} allows one to include a "collapsible" parameter that will hide the screenshot if included. Thinking about NFC, I am pretty confident that a NFC image that starts off collapsed by the default loading of a page is basically a non-essential NFC image. This is not just in infoboxes but anywhere there can be collapsible lists. NFCC#9 should include restrictions of NFC being used in as-loaded collapsible sections. (Sections that can be collapsed later, that's fine). This will be a rule that affects use of templates like these infoboxes as well as some infoboxes themselves - eg the infobox software template documentation doesn't mention this aspect at all in the "collaspible" instructions and really should. --MASEM (t) — Preceding undated comment added 2014-07-06T06:19:52‎

Sounds like a good idea. Maybe it should be in WP:NFCC#8 instead? If it is so unimportant that it can be hidden by default, then its removal isn't detrimental to the understanding of the article.
I think that this has been discussed somewhere else before. --Stefan2 (talk) 20:39, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Seems like instruction creep to me.
-- For one thing, if a collapsed section also includes content directly discussing the NFC, it seems reasonable to go on having the one there with the other.
-- For another, we're okay with the idea that image description pages may validly be able to show a higher-resolution version of an image than can be visible in the initial thumbnail. Is clicking to reveal an image description page so different to clicking to un-collapse a collapsed section?
I too seem to remember someone having once raised this on one of the boards. But I'm not sure it led to any removals. Jheald (talk) 22:04, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Well, first consider that key content should never be hidden per MOS; hidden content should be limited to additional data that is not necessary but helpful (eg track listings for soundtracks associated with other media). So I cannot see a case where non-free tied to content , together as a whole would be considered "additional data" that would be appropriate to hide per the MOS. And no, the fact that clicking an image to bring a larger image isn't a factor here; images added to pages should be at a size that the broad aspects of the picture should be able to be seen at the thumbnail resolution without clickthru - if more detail is needed (without exceeding fair use allowance) to be seen in conjunction with the text, then the image should be properly clipped and enlarged to show the needed detail, or the image size on the page adjusted away from the default to show this. If you're using NFC, hiding it by default is not really meeting the NFCC#8 aspects (when tied to the MOS advice about hiding content). --MASEM (t) 22:50, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Agree with Jheald that this is instruction creep. The problem here seems to not be with NFCC, but with a question of why a software infobox template would allow for the screenshot to be collapsed. A screenshot of the interface a piece of software uses would be something I would view as very important, and certainly worthy of inclusion despite being non-free. Resolute 23:51, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
  • If you want to do that, I'd amend NFCC 7:

Displayed in at least one article. Non-free content must be visibly displayed within the body of at least one article.

"Visibly displayed" in this context would exclude use in collapsible boxes, because they are not visible within the body. ViperSnake151  Talk  02:03, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
Well, it's not so much a problem to include in a section that can collapse, but the default visibility of that section must be visible on a normal page load. --MASEM (t) 02:06, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
You'll also have to be careful with the wording; such a rule could effectively ban all non-infobox non-free images, because sections are displayed in a collapsed state by default in the mobile view. ViperSnake151  Talk  17:59, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
That is true, this would be specifically aimed at non-free collapsed on the otherwise default (not-logged in user) view on a regular web browser, as the reasons to collapse on mobile devices are reasonable. --MASEM (t) 18:07, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
Also note that nothing is collapsed anywhere if you disable Javascript. --Stefan2 (talk) 19:53, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

New legal note[edit]

Hi, guys. :) In response to multiple requests from users, the legal department has prepared a new wikilegal note at m:Wikilegal/Primer on U.S. Fair Use/Copyright Law for Website. I mention it in case it is of some use to you, although I realize it may not contain anything you don't know. --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 13:56, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for that - I have gone ahead and placed on the guideline page's "See Also" links. --MASEM (t) 14:00, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

A milestone[edit]

Within the last month, we have reached 500,000 non-free images on this "free encyclopedia" project. Just thought this milestone should be noted. --Hammersoft (talk) 14:29, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Ouch. That seems yucky in relation to our mission to provide free content. TLSuda (talk) 14:55, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
With 4.55M articles, that's about 11% of articles using non-free, which is about the same ratio as has been for several years if not lower. I know we can do better but that requires a massive sea-change regarding images "for identification" which I can tell from current discussions isn't going to happen for a long time, but we certainly haven't gone up in the ratio of usage. As long as people continue to add new articles, we will continue to increase non-free both good and bad uses. --MASEM (t) 15:06, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Assuming 250 pixels height average per non-free image (that's conservative), if we laid all the non-free images end to end, they would stretch 27 miles/43 kilometers. --Hammersoft (talk) 15:35, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Compliance with 17 U.S. Code § 1202 - Integrity of copyright management information[edit]

While our fair use rationale rules are quite in-depth to begin with, it, unfortunately, does fully not comply with a particular aspect of U.S. copyright law. 17 U.S. Code § 1202 imposes rules on the handling of "copyright management information" (CMI), and forbids the altering or removal of CMI. We already comply with most of the information defined as part of CMI, but, we do not entirely comply with providing:

(3) The name of, and other identifying information about, the copyright owner of the work, including the information set forth in a notice of copyright.

I interpret this as a requirement to include the full copyright notice as specified by the publisher. In response, I propose a strict re-write of part of NFCC 10a, which should read:

Identification of the source of the original copyrighted material, supplemented with information about the artist, publisher, and the relevant copyright notice containing the publisher and year of copyright; this is to help determine the material's potential market value.

Does this make sense? ViperSnake151  Talk  18:09, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

I would think we need WMF Legal to review that to determine exactly what that means, since it would apply to all projects on US servers (including Commons). --MASEM (t) 18:14, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Would 17 U.S.C. § 1202 be overruled by fair use provisions if you have no way to tell who the copyright holder is? There is also 17 U.S.C. § 106A (moral rights) which looks similar to § 1202, but specifically mentions fair use. I think that we should ask the Foundation how or if § 1202 affects us. --Stefan2 (talk) 20:04, 11 July 2014 (UTC)