Wikipedia talk:Talk page layout

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GA Nominee placement[edit]

Do you think GA Nominee should be place above or below Talk header? Right now the page says GA Nom should be above Talk header but into my eyes changing so that TH is always at the top looks better. I also take under consideration that at some point we discussed merging Skip to talk into Talk header. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:15, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Any disagreements if I move it after talk header? GoingBatty? Bgwhite? -- Magioladitis (talk) 19:00, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
I have no issues with moving {{GA nominee}} under {{Talk header}} or leaving it as is. (My concern was that AWB was moving {{WikiProjectBannerShell}} above {{GA nominee}}.) Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 19:40, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
No objections either way. As a GAN tag is, at least in theory, a temporary tag, it won't matter in the long run where it is at. I know this is primarily for bot purposes. I see humans doing the status quo. Bgwhite (talk) 19:42, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

OK I moved since it makes much more sense taking under consideration that skip to talk is like an extension to talk header and that GA Nom still goes up the banners and the WPBS. -- Magioladitis (talk) 19:56, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

I am returning this to the status quo for the time being. Unless there is some benefit to be derived from changing a long standing convention, it should not be done. You will now get humans placing the temporary tag on the top because that's the way it has always been done, and then a bot or semi-automated edit coming along and making a edit to move it, creating a needless watchlist alert. Unless there is a problem there is no need to go looking for a solution that then creates a problem. If there is a still a feeling that the tag needs to be moved, then open a wider discussion, and gain an appropriate consensus. SilkTork ✔Tea time 08:22, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
SilkTork 9 months later you reverted an edit that was done after discussion. I do not think this is right. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:36, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

I'll open a new discussion below, as the placement of the GA template also needs clarifying. SilkTork ✔Tea time 08:59, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Ease of use idea: Basic Templates For Talk Page Layout[edit]

The best part of Wikipedia is the respect you achieve over time by the quality of your posts. Many link builders and over-night users simply miss out totally on the pleasure of being part of the sharing education. They rush off to edit or add something and vanish. Now IF there were templates (per example on or via: Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines) this would help such a user "get into the bath" so to speak. The TALK template would include some basic Wiki markup with comment tags as to their use. - Happy to work on this with a few others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dutchbeefy (talkcontribs) 17:51, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Place archiving bot trigger above talk header template[edit]

Please place archiving bot trigger above talk header template.

If it's placed below this it screws up the talk page format and leaves a big ugly empty space often in between other templates.

Thank you,

Cirt (talk) 18:34, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Which archiving bot trigger? There are several. Also, please give examples of pages where this is a demonstrable problem. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:23, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
An example. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:48, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
What was broken about the previous version that required {{User:MiszaBot/config}} to be moved to the top? --Redrose64 (talk) 10:18, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
Cirt? -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:38, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
I agree, it should be at the top of the talk page, and not the bottom. — Cirt (talk) 17:18, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
@Cirt: Agree with who? Nobody (other than yourself) has said that {{User:MiszaBot/config}} should be moved to the top of the talk page. Your edit (linked by Magioladitis above) didn't move the {{User:MiszaBot/config}} from the bottom of the talk page, it moved it from the bottom of the first section - with the vague edit summary "talk page formatting". What I don't understand is why it is a problem at the bottom of the first section. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:49, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
It creates ugly odd spacing, especially if placed in between other project tags. — Cirt (talk) 17:52, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
But it wasn't in between other project tags. It was right at the bottom of the lead section; and while there was a 30px gap between the {{Find sources notice|Sian Breckin}} and the TOC, that gap was no larger than the 30px gap that you have caused above the {{Talk header}} and is certainly no uglier. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:47, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

DYK talk[edit]

Since the {{DYK talk}} is used at so many talk pages (63,401), it should defenitly be added somewhere on the WP:TPL-list. Right? -(tJosve05a (c) 00:15, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

I consider these to fall within 7 'Any "article history" banner'. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:14, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

@Magioladitis: Ping! Do you agree that this would be classified as a #7? In that case, If you please could add it to the AWB program? :-) -(tJosve05a (c) 11:00, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Josve05a I agree. I would like to wait a few days before implementing so more editors can read the discussion and express their opinion. GoingBatty what do you think? -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:19, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
Agreed with #7, based on Template:Article history/doc. GoingBatty (talk) 13:58, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
(Off topic...Magioladitis {{Oldhwypeerreview}} should be placed at the same place as normal olrpeerreviews, rigt?) -(tJosve05a (c) 12:43, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
Josve05a True but I don't want to do his case-by-case. It is time consuming. You are welcome to create full lists and save me some time :) I think this template could be deleted and replaced by normal olrpeerreviews. It has very few transclusions and categorising does not bring many. -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:49, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
Magioladitis: I will collect all of these templates I can find and then give them all togheter. :-) -(tJosve05a (c) 12:51, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

rev 9816 support for {{DYK talk}}. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:36, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Proposal[edit]

It seems that {{afd-merged-from}} should be in group #7 (with "article history" banners) while {{merged-from}} and {{merged-to}} should be in #14 (with {{Split from}} and {{Split to}}). What do others think? GoingBatty (talk) 00:14, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

GoingBatty I agree. -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:17, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
rev 9815 AWB supports it. -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:58, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Changes[edit]

There are some oddities:

GA listing

The GA notice currently goes above high priority notices. This should not be the case. A GA listing should, like a FA listing, go below priority listings in the same place as the article history. If there is an article history, the listing should be in the article history.

Vital article

{{Vital article}} is essentially a project tag (it is an internal activity: "Some Wikipedia editors feel this article topic is important"), so should go in the WikiProject template.

"article milestone"

Internal activities such as DYK, On this day, etc, go in {{Article history}} - there are parameters for them in the template.


The GA listing just below the talkheader is a long established convention that needs discussion, and I'll open that below, inviting GA editors to take part. The other two are recent, so I'll change them now, and if there is disagreement we can open a discussion about them as well. SilkTork ✔Tea time 08:54, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Vital article[edit]

I think Vital article should not put inside WPBS since I do not think we should hide it. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:12, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

SilkTork sorry for reverting but the change was agreed with more editors at User_talk:Josve05a/Archives/2014/May#Talk_page_fixes after their suggestion. I'll ask them to participate. Thanks again for starting the thread. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:18, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

It is nowhere written that Vital article is a WikiProject, it does not follow standard convention, its banner is smaller than the WikiProject ones. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:20, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

{{WikiProject Vital Articles}} is a WikiProject, {{Vital article}} is however not. Therefor I don't think it should be placed inside a WPBS. {{WikiProject Vital Articles}} (and other WikiProjet-templates) are ment to "refer" people to the WIkiProject, when {{Vital article}} has *no* link to a WIkiProject, and is only saying that that article is "vital" to Wikipedia. (tJosve05a (c) 10:24, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
{{Vital article}} is not built around {{WPBannerMeta}}, but {{tmbox}} plus {{category handler}}. It ignores the classes used by {{WPBS}}/{{WPB}}, and so is not collapsed by those wrappers. Whilst {{WPB}} will hide it, that is true of almost anything wrapped by {{WPB}} and doesn't mean that {{Vital article}} may be placed inside {{WPB}}. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:27, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Templates such as {{V0.5}} and {{WP1.0}} seem to fall in the same category as {{Vital article}}. Maybe a similar solution can be found for all of these? – Editør (talk) 10:40, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

These two templates, despite the similarity of names, are very different inside. {{V0.5}} is a table plus two transclusions of the {{WP1.0/categories}} template - again, not a WikiProject banner, so should not be enclosed by either {{WPB}} or {{WPBS}}. However, {{WP1.0}} is built around {{WPBannerMeta}}, linking to Wikipedia Version 1.0 Editorial Team, so may safely be enclosed in {{WPB}}/{{WPBS}}. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:36, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Split & merge[edit]

Shouln't {{Split from}}, {{Split to}}, {{Merged from}} & {{Merged-to}} be placed under #8 (*Any* "article history")? (tJosve05a (c) 10:26, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Josve05a I wonder with there is a"-" in one of the two. This should be both or none. -- Magioladitis (talk) 05:52, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

GA banners[edit]

Currently the GA listing talkpage banner goes directly under the talkheader banner, placing it above priority notices, such as discretionary sanctions. It seems more appropriate that guidance should be that the GA listing banner goes in the same place as other internal article milestone banners - either within {{Article history}}, or if that template is not yet on the talkpage, in the place where {{Article history}} would be.

Currently the GAN or GAR template goes below the talkheader banner, previously it was placed above the banner as it is a temporary banner. The FAC banner is also a temporary banner and that goes at the top of the page. When an article is undergoing a GAN or FAC, that is currently the most interesting/important aspect for editors of the article, and it seems appropriate that the banner should remain at the top. This also means that when the banner is placed, there is no need to search for the right place in the list, nor to disturb the existing listing.

Notifying the GA project, as this discussion may be of interest there. SilkTork ✔Tea time 09:09, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Lead should be edited[edit]

"This Wikipedia guide to talk page layout is an annotated..." Articles shouldn't start with "this wikipedia guide". It can be made better. OccultZone (Talk) 11:41, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

AFD history[edit]

According to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Administrator instructions#Carrying out the AfD close the {{Old AfD multi}} template should be placed after the Wikiproject templates. However, the User:Mr.Z-man/closeAFD script places it at the top and User:Yobot is going round moving to the top ones that aren't already there. User:Magioladitis (the bot owner) argues that the top is correct as AFD counts as history. Which is correct? SpinningSpark 12:40, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

I would say that {{Old AfD multi}} is more related to {{Split from}}/{{Split to}}/{{Merged-from}}/{{Merged-to}} than to the progress of ITN/DYK/GA/FA/TFA, so it really goes at about positions 15-16. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:50, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Redrose64 it's been noted to me, I can't recall by whom, that the template is more related to article history (In some cases it can be merged there) and to templates such as Old prod. I do not have strong feelings on anything. -- Magioladitis (talk) 22:49, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
If I'm doing it manually, I usually put them after the WikiProject templates, as AfD/AI says - it's just more physically natural for me. It would honestly make more sense as article history (8) and thus on top, but I doubt very many people care. Ansh666 02:30, 11 July 2014 (UTC)