Wikipedia talk:Tambayan Philippines

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
 
 
Tambayan Philippines Header.png
This is the discussion page of Tambayan Philippines, where Filipino contributors and contributors to Philippine-related articles discuss general matters regarding the development of Philippine-related articles as well as broad topics on the Philippines with respect to Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects. Likewise, this talk page also serves as the regional notice board for Wikipedia concerns regarding the Philippines, enabling other contributors to request input from Filipino Wikipedians.


Shortcuts

WT:TAMBAY - WT:PINOY - Deletion Sorting (Philippines)

Discussion

Start new topic


Archives

00 | 01 | 02 | 03 | 04 | 05 | 06 | 07 | 08 | 09 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36

Wikimedia Philippines.svg
AOI • By-laws
FacebookTwitterGoogle+Identi.caYouTubeUStreamYahoo GroupMy Space
FIND WIKIPEDIA TAMBAYAN ON SOCIAL MEDIA
Find us on Facebook     Find us on Twitter     Find us on Google+     Find us on Identi.ca

Find us on YouTube      Find us on UStream
This box: view  talk  edit

Barangay article titles naming convention[edit]

Since you are discussing barangays here, I inserted this new section right below 'Capitalization of Barangay in a place name'. (If anyone disagrees, I'll move this section to down below)
Was there a poll or discussion before whether the naming format of all barangay articles should be changed to just the "BARANGAY NAME, PROVINCE NAME" or sometimes "BARANGAY NAME, TOWN NAME" and I have seen just the BARANGAY name by itself (e.g. Pasonanca). I would vote NO on this because I find it very confusing, and probably for non-Filipino readers of Wikipedia who came upon such article. It is not easily identifiable whether that place name is a barangay or a town before a province, or is the second name a town or a province, not unless you are familiar with that particular place. What if there are more than one barangays with the same name in the same province? Not only that, I've seen barangays with names similar to a town in the same province. Maybe now it is still fine as there are only few barangay articles in Wikipedia so far. But how about in the future, like 10 or 20 years from now. How many barangays are there in just one province?

There is nothing wrong with the former longer name format, i.e., "Brgy. BARANGAY NAME, TOWN, PROVINCE", and should be the standard as that is how our local government units are divided. That's how our addresses or place name identification came to be in the Philippines because of our geography, population density and history, and uniquely Philippines. Most countries only have two levels, (like in the United States with just CITIES or TOWNS, STATE), so we cannot emulate them with just two place names, they are not us. I really believe that this new naming convention would just bring confusion and not user-friendly for non-Filipino readers who are not familiar with Philippine geography and local government. I believe we have to think from the reader's point-of-view, not ours editors.

I remember there was a discussion or poll before (or something similar) in the early stages of Wikipedia regarding the naming convention of municipality articles (if I remember it correctly), which resulted with the standard format "MUNICIPALITY name, PROVINCE name" format for all municipalities for easier identification of its location in the country, even if the town has a unique Wikipedia name (see WP:Philippine geographic names). I think there should be a discussion regarding the naming conventions for barangay articles? I saw RioHondo's proposal, of which some parts I agree and disagree on. This is the English Wikipedia, and Philippine-related articles should be user-friendly to all readers, not just Filipinos. Thanks. - Briarfallen (talk) 18:20, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

TBH I dunno how to deal with barangay names. There are multiple conventions and it's quite hard to pin on one standard. –HTD 18:58, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
My suggestion is to follow the format "Brgy. BARANGAY Name, TOWN Name, PROVINCE Name" because that's the way it is, how we write it on our addresses. It is just a continuation of the present municipality format, and clarifies exactly which barangay is referred to. I think some are afraid to use it because of the length, so what? Why would you care? There is no rule against the length of the title, but this is the most appropriate, and this is how we identify the barangay from others. Again, do not compare Philippines to other countries, as we have three administrative division of local government, the reason for having three names to refer a barangay.
So what if it's longer? Who is saying we cannot use it. It is the best clearest way. This is the Philippines, why would you bend the rules to satisfy the two-name location identification like others. That's not us. That is not the Philippines. There's no rule saying we have to follow the two-name rule. Again, think about the future and the number of barangays each provinces have. Better correct it now than later. - Briarfallen (talk) 21:52, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
I don't think the province name is always appended when they use the address form. In fact I think it's always omitted. I don't even know if the word "Barangay" has to be there unless the barangay number is a number. –HTD 11:54, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
Where I came from, we don't use the word "Barangay" or "Brgy.", but addresses are by House #, BARANGAY NAME, TOWN NAME, PROVINCE NAME. It was a one-street barangay. It would different in a much populated towns. But the PROVINCE NAME is always there. You cannot omit the province name. Thanks. - Briarfallen (talk) 21:15, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
Hey briarfallen. Feel free to provide inputs and suggestions to our proposal here, and i am saying our proposal as i consulted with the regulars folks here prior to writing it, primarily the Duck above. :) As for barangay article titles being prefixed with Barangay, I don't think it works for all barangays either, in fact like HTD i think it's used more for barangays that have numbers as names only, like Barangay 236. It would be hard to get used to Baclaran being called Barangay Baclaran for instance. What more for Alabang, Forbes Park, or even Malanday? Some are also known more as geographic places and less as political entities, like Matabungkay, Pamilacan, Anilao and the future article on Batad in Banaue. Who would have thought they were barangays? So as far as having a standard convention which the MOS is all about, it just won't work IMO. I hope to hear your comments on the other proposed changes though so we could get this thing rolling. Thanks--RioHondo (talk) 12:58, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
Briarfallen's response

The reason why I'm bringing up this 'barangay naming convention' question is I am being bothered with the recent increase in barangay articles with titles that, in my opinion, disregarding the "naming convention for Philippines geographic names" that was adapted before. At first, it was alright by just adding the BARANGAY name to the MUNICIPALITY, PROVINCE format, which is the normal progression, and IMHO, it was working. But then changes were made, overstepping the naming convention rule WITHOUT THE CONSENSUS of other Philippine editors (since this is a major change to the standard we use per WP:Consensus). Single-name barangay article titles like "San Pedro Cutud", "Arkong Bato", "Balangkas", "Baclaran", etc. are being used or titles being changed and redirected into this format, which is also the format for Philippine CITIES or PROVINCES! Even though we only have 140 plus cities and 80 plus provinces, not everybody would know them all. What if you are not a Filipino and not familiar with our geography? We must try to make Philippine-related articles more accessible or "user-friendly" to Non-Filipinos. As written at the top of the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names), "that article titles should be chosen for the general reader, not for specialists."

I've also seen the naming of barangay articles like Catmon, Bulacan or Cabilang Baybay, Cavite, which is similar to the naming convention for municipalities! Not everybody knows the municipalities of each provinces. How could one determine if it's a barangay or municipality by simply looking at it, if the standard is not followed? Please remember that this is the English Wikipedia, we are writing not only for us but also for the other people around the world, and should be "Non-Filipino-friendly". Also, please don't try to fit the barangay titles into a TWO-NAME TITLE, just because it is the more familiar and commonly used in other countries. It's different in the Philippines as we also have three levels of local government not two, as we have a denser population, different geography and history. There is NOTHING wrong with a longer BUT clearer and more specific title like BARANGAY, MUNICIPALITY, PROVINCE or BARANGAY, CITY as it also tells you its location in the country. Would everyone know immediately where "Balangkas" is? Per naming convention, SINGLE place names SHOULD only mean it's either a city or a province in the Philippines.

My suggestion is just an extension of the current naming convention for Philippine municipality and city articles (or WP:MOSPHIL), by just adding the BARANGAY name to the current format for the either municipality or city title used, i.e.:

For Philippine municipalities, the naming convention in Wikipedia is always "TOWN NAME, PROVINCE NAME". Some municipalities that were started before the adaption of this format, I believe, were all converted to this two-name nomenclature. The former single MUNICIPALITY names, even MUNICIPALITIES with UNIQUE names, were changed to the new format. The single titles were then redirected to the new two-name titles. Examples are "Paombong", which redirects to the main article Paombong, Bulacan, or "Maragondon" redirected to "Maragondon, Cavite", to conform with the present naming standard for MUNICIPALITY articles. So for barangays, the format would be "BARANGAY NAME, TOWN NAME, PROVINCE NAME."

The naming convention for Philippine most PROVINCES or CITIES is just the CITY/PROVINCE NAME by itself. So for City barangay titles, we just add the BARANGAY name to the current article title format in Wikipedia, making it a 'two-name' standard title, separated by commas (exceptions explained below). Thus, it would be "BARANGAY NAME, CITY NAME", which is currently in used for "Forbes Park, Makati", "Alabang, Muntinlupa", or maybe "San Francisco del Monte, Quezon City" if someone wants to start it. (Except maybe for cities with the format "CITYNAME, Philippines", like "Lucena, Philippines", which I don't get why not "Lucena, Quezon", for lesser number of rules.)

So for existing popular barangays like "Baclaran", then we have to redirect it to the main article "Baclaran, Parañaque City" to conform with the naming convention (presently it is the other way around). "Baclaran", by itself, would stay as a redirect and would not be erased. It would also be an education in geography for Non-Filipinos, and also for some of us, I'm sure some Filipinos would have easily mistaken Baclaran as part of Pasay City at first (and also for those who live in central or southern Philippines who are not familiar with Baclaran).

For city names that are namesakes of other places anywhere in the world, e.g. "San Fernando, La Union"; "San Fernando, Pampanga"; "San Jose, Nueva Ecija"; "La Carlota, Negros Occidental"; etc. Then we just add the City Barangay name to the present city title format in Wikipedia forming a "three-name title", just like the municipalities. For example, for the barangays of "San Fernando, Pampanga" like "San Pedro Cutud", the format should be "San Pedro Cutud, San Fernando, Pampanga".

For city barangays, IMO, the "City" word should be appended to distinguish it is a city and not a province for those who are not familiar with our cities or municipalities. With the recent increase of municipalities elevated into cities, who could keep up which ones are new cities. Names like "Diezmo, Cabuyao" would be changed to "Diezmo, Cabuyao City" (presently, it is the other way around as well) or "Alabang, Muntinlupa" to "Alabang, Muntinlupa City", "Forbes Park, Makati" to "Forbes Park, Makati City", etc... Or just follow the MOS, whichever is chosen by everybody. Remember, it is for those who are UNFAMILIAR with Philippine cities and municipalities, for easily discerning a place-name title, whether it is a "BARANGAY NAME, CITY NAME City" and not a "TOWN NAME, PROVINCE NAME." And we SHOULD NOT assume that everybody knows all the provinces, cities or municipalities of the Philippines. Please let me repeat the Wiki policy, "article titles should be chosen for the general reader, not for specialists."

Should the word "Barangay" or "Brgy." be placed in front of the two- or three-name title? Personally, I would say just the shorter COMMONLY-USED "Brgy." not the whole "Barangay" word, and depending on the name, using it more like a "barangay indicator" as some barangay names have very common town-like names, number names, or named after a person like (after randomly choosing a town) "San Juan, San Jose, Nueva Ecija" or "Ferdinand E. Marcos, San Jose, Nueva Ecija." Or maybe not used the term, it's up to how others would vote for it. (BTW, somebody removed the word 'City' from the article "General Santos" per MOS? But now it looks like an article about a general).

Please remember that we have this naming convention, which we have been following ever since. With the recent increase of Barangay articles, let's not overstep the standard that was started before, just extend it. And, there must be a consensus before overruling the current standard naming convention. And please view this from the perspective of Non-Filipino readers or somebody from the other parts of the country, not ours, editors. Thanks. - Briarfallen (talk) 21:15, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

The thing is, reading WP:MOSPHIL right now, there's no more(?) guidance on how to name barangays. I previously pushed for the "<barangayname>, <town/cityname>, <provincename>" convention but I don't now, as there is no clear way on how to name barangays As I said, the only sure thing is to use the word "Barangay" if the barangay's name is a solely a number, as in "Barangay 143" (but not "Poblacion Dos"), then appending the town/city name. I guess I'd also prefer also having the word "Barangay" if it needs to be disambiguated ("Barangay Fort Bonifacio") except for "Barangay Poblacion", which should be "Poblacion, <city/townname>". As for "barangay" vs. "brgy.", I prefer the full word. As for appending the province name to the title, I'm undecided, leaning against, but won't oppose if someone pushes for it. And yeah, I'd strongly oppose the "<barangayname>, <provincename>" nomenclature. –HTD 00:20, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Basically we have not yet set a convention for barangay article titles, our MOSPHIL has never had a provision even in its older version, and that is why i started proposing changes to it back in 2012. Now after 2 years of discussion in talk:mosphil and talk:tambay, we have arrived with this proposed new guideline for barangays which basically takes into account the general consensus on disambiguating only when needed. The benefits there are clear: if the barangay is also an island, there won't be a need to create two separate articles for Pamilacan, Baclayon (or Barangay Pamilacan) and Pamilacan Island which would only confuse readers and editors, and degrade the quality of our articles. Another benefit: recognizability, without its lesser known municipality having to be part of its name. For example, very few people would recognize Pamilacan, Baclayon and more people just know it to be Pamilacan or maybe Pamilacan, Bohol even, but never Pamilacan, Baclayon. How about Matababungkay, Lian? Anilao, Mabini? And Baclaran, Parañaque? People thought it was Baclaran, Pasay. Anilao, Batangas is even more common to hear than Anilao, Mabini. And especially Matabungkay! What's Lian? Third benefit with (barangayname): stability of the articles. :)--RioHondo (talk) 12:58, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

So this battle for the renaming of barangays has been going on for quite some time now as I just recently found about it. Now, I have a better view of what's going on here. After browsing through the archives and Talk pages of some barangays, I'm a little baffled as this is against the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) article title policy that "article titles should be chosen for the GENERAL READER, not for SPECIALISTS." You may know where and what is "Baclaran", "Matabungkay", or "Anilao", but how about other Filipinos from other parts of the country, or Non-Filipino readers of Wikipedia who are not familiar with those terms or places? We have to think about the readers not our personal opinion or from our personal point-of-view.

Even though there's no consensus yet per WP:Consensus, barangay titles are being changed, even though some editors are opposed by the move to this direction. Hi RioHondo, when you said "WE have arrived with MOSPHIL2", who are the 'We' you talking about. I checked the talk on User:RioHondo/MOSPHIL2, there was no discussion, and it was just started only last August, not two years. There were no discussion elsewhere just discussions on article talk pages about the changes. Not all editors knows what's going on on all articles about the Philippines. All of those article renaming oppose or overstep WP:MOSPHIL, the current naming convention. I saw two people pushing this new naming convention. Your explanation (above) that "the benefits are clear" I'm sorry but you were a little vague with your explanation, and I don't see any benefits. Could you please expand on that as I don't see its connection to "degrading the quality of our articles." Just like the explanation (above) to third benefit "stability of the articles" - stability on what aspect?

Local government unit chart

You said, "How about Matababungkay, Lian? Anilao, Mabini? And Baclaran, Parañaque? People thought it was Baclaran, Pasay. Anilao, Batangas is even more common to hear than Anilao, Mabini. And especially Matabungkay! What's Lian?" Good, you know then why having just ONE title would be more confusing. The MAIN article should have "<barangayname>, <town/cityname>, <provincename>" as mentioned by HTD or the ones I mentioned above in the beginning of this section, as they are continuation of the present WP:MOSPHIL. SINGLE names, like Matabungkay or Baclaran, should only be used as REDIRECTS to its main article as it contradicts the present MOSPHIL, that single names are only used for 1st level local government units like provinces or independent cities (in MOSPHIL we included all cities as this solve the problem of discerning which ones are independent or not).

The idea of "disambiguating only when needed" is tantamount to the Filipino's "Bahala na" (Come what may) attitude and not looking into the future. There are only few Barangay articles on Wikipedia for now as people just started writing them maybe 1 or 2 years ago, the reason why it's not in the MOSPHIL. But think about 5, 10 or 20 years from now. With over 40,000 barangays in the Philippines, would you be able to easily pinpoint where one particular barangay is located, just by the single title alone? Wouldn't it be easier if there's a disambiguation tag for barangays according to the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names). If all unique Philippine place names are all converted to a single name title, how can one easily identify which ones are provinces, cities, municipalities, or barangays if you are not from the Philippines or live in a different area of the country? You would be alienating those readers who want to learn more about Philippines and its geography through Wikipedia as there is NO ORDER in our naming convention. I don't think this is following Wikipedia's article title policy that "article titles should be chosen for the GENERAL READER, not for SPECIALISTS." - Briarfallen (talk) 08:30, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Can't say im a fan of long replies but here's my two centavos:
Matabungkay, Lian, Batangas – I don't know about Lian, but i know Matabungkay, and it's in Batangas.
Anilao, Mabini, Batangas – I don't know Mabini, but I know Anilao, and it's somewhere in Batangas.
Baclaran, Parañaque – could this be referring to the side of Baclaran covered by Parañaque?
Pamilacan, Baclayon, Bohol – I don't know Baclayon, but i know Pamilacan to be an island near Bohol. Rename it to Pamilacan Island then. And the barangay to Barangay Pamalican.
X Recognizability
X Stability of article title
X Having one article for the barangay and its namesake island
You can browse through the tambayan archives also from late last year or early this year for that long discussion on the naming convention that occupies a whole page. The proposal was also opened up middle of this year. If the barangay is called simply Biak-na-Bato, why name it Biak-na-Bato, San Miguel, Bulacan? You're not just trying to confuse readers. You're making something so simple sound so complex. You would also be going against WP:COMMONNAME with this long convention you are proposing. Baclaran is just Baclaran.--08:58, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
And then there's also those barangays whose territories are still contested. The barangay of Fort Bonifacio, Taguig for example. Both WP:COMMONNAME and COMMONSENSE will tell you to just name it as Fort Bonifacio. Canlubang is another example whose territory is thought to cover huge parts of western Laguna from Biñan and Santa Rosa up to Calamba. Calling it Canlubang, Calamba, Laguna would be technically correct, but is unrecognizable to the majority of our readers. In summary, what you're saying as a specialist naming convention is actually the reverse for the majority who are locals. The plain title doesn't tell them more than they need to know, and adding the municipality and province qualifiers to the barangay title would be seen as being too specific when half the time they don't even know which places fall under which lgu. Is Balintawak in Caloocan or Quezon City? Is it Sucat, Parañaque or Sucat, Muntinlupa? Between the plain name and the qualified title, guess which one would get more views. --RioHondo (talk) 09:45, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
I'd guess no one will dispute that "Matabungkay, Batangas" is wrong. It appears that "Matabungkay" is a town when it isn't. I'd rather go with Matabungkay (Lian, Batangas), if it ever needs to be disambiguated.
I'd also guess that this is the "tourist spot" argument I made months ago, when people associate a small place with a larger area. See also: the case of the use of "Manila" to refer places in Caloocan to Las Pinas. My friends associate, for example, "Barangay Malamig" for our favorite cheap water park. "Dude, where's our gimmick?" "At Malamig!" This is the case with these "famous" barangays and towns. –HTD 12:08, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Exactly, as we have agreed in our proposal for barangays, which is to use the unqualified name where possible. Now, the only thing that needs fixing I guess is when it is not, and has to be disambiguated. You presented a really good alternative to the usual comma convention, which is to use the parenthetical convention. I am open to Santa Clara (Santa Maria, Bulacan) and Buena Suerte (El Nido, Palawan) especially since Barangays are not always present in addresses (if they are, they are styled in different ways: the number zone for instance, or the barangay purok/ barangay sitio variants, some write barangay first followed by street, some go straight to subdvision and omit the barangay), and therefore need not follow the comma convention that are standard for municipalities and cities. A second option would be just Barangayname (barangay). Either way, parenthesis works better for us. But Matabungkay stays at Matabungkay. We simply don't need Lian to mess and confuse what we know is the only place that has that name, the beach resort village in Batangas. :) --RioHondo (talk) 14:30, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
While barangays aren't always in addresses, once they're in addresses, it's always "<barangay>, <town/city>, <province>". The issue if, referring to barangays outside of addresses, on how they're called. The answer is, there's no single convention, save for barangays that have numbers as their names. This isn't like towns where it's almost universally in the "<town>, <province>" convention, such as "Guiuan, Eastern Samar". –HTD 15:29, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

RioHondo, the problem is you are viewing this only from your own personal point-of-view or personal opinion. Your explanation above is all about based on your personal opinion. Yes, you know that Matabungkay is in Lian, does everybody in the world knows that? When you said, "We simply don't need Lian to mess and confuse what we know is the only place that has that name, the beach resort village in Batangas." That shows that you are basing this just your own opinion. Not everybody thinks like you and not everybody in the world knows where Matabungkay is? I would recommend to having the town "Lian" included there, so that people will know that it is part of Lian (like you as you said above), why would you eliminate Lian just because you don't know Lian? Does everybody in the world know that it is part of Lian?

I am in favor of what User:Howard the Duck is suggesting that it should be Matabungkay (Lian, Batangas) or for any other barangays. And no excuses whether one-word place names like Baclaran or Matabungkay should be just single titles or not. This the English Wikipedia and we have to follow rules, not the Filipino kind of wishy-washy ruling. There is no such thing as "preferring Matabungkay as a single title for whatever personal reason" per WP:NPOV. Each barangay should be titled equally that is why it is called a "naming convention."

Also, please stop misusing WP:COMMONNAME as WP:COMMONNAME is for "places, people or things with multiple names", please read it yourself. You only use it like whether to choose "Manila Cathedral" over "Immaculate Conception Cathedral of Manila", or Ninoy Aquino over Benigno Aquino, Jr.; or for geographic names, like Muñoz, Nueva Ecija over Science City of Muñoz. Don't try using it to trump other Wikipedia rules like the NAMING CONVENTION rule for geographic names. Please don't use it where it does not apply. I also saw some people also misusing WP:PRIMARYTOPICS on some Talk pages. Really? Please it does not apply there.

How about Biak-na-Bato? Why use that as an example to get your point across. It is a "disambiguation page" for the word "Biak-na-Bato", in which the barangay article should be listed there, if there is one. Not on the top of the page even though the items listed there are about the barangay. Not all items that somebody might write in the future is all about the barangay.

Another example: Cabilang Baybay, Cavite and other barangay articles of Carmona, Cavite. For somebody who is not familiar with the towns of Cavite, he or she would think that it is a town of Cavite. Why are you confusing the readers of Wikipedia?

Again, the disambiguation only when needed" is against Wikipedia's article-title policy for geographic names that "article titles should be chosen for the GENERAL READER, not for SPECIALISTS." - meaning for the readers, not for your satisfaction and NOT based on your personal opinion. - 02:29, 24 November 2014 (UTC)


HTD did give this condition: '"if it ever needs to be disambiguated"'. I think thats pretty self-explanatory right there. And for precedents, you can check Binondo and Ermita started by Seav which was supported by the WP community. As i said, there are no rules yet for barangay/district article titles, and what have been proposed are based on the discussions and those successful RMs. Please read the proposal carefully.
It states: For barangays, use [[{barangay-name}]] where possible. If disambiguation is required, use [[{barangay-name}, {city/municipalityprovince-name}]].
Where in the proposal does it say to use [[{barangay-name}, {province-name}]]? If there are articles styled that way, that's maybe because there are no guidelines yet to effect an RM to a different title?
As for Matabungkay, again the Lian part would make your article unrecognizable to your readers. Why would the average reader click on something he is not familiar with? He googles the place precisely because he wants to know about the place. Seeing Matabungkay, Lian, Batangas in the google search result would make your reader think twice if he's got the Matabungkay he's searching for. Whereas if it's in the plain title, there's no doubt there is any other Matabungkay. And he'll just go ahead and click.
And yes, it is common wiki practice to have one article for an admin unit and its namesake island. We're not moving Pamilacan and Suluan to your long barangay format and risk turning them into stubs when Suluan Island is separated from Suluan, Guiuan, Eastern Samar just because of the un-island-like name you are proposing. Island-admin unit articles are in their plain titles always.
And yup, disambiguate only when needed as per WP:PRECISE and WP:CONCISE. This argument is getting old TBH. You should have joined in the previous debates.--RioHondo (talk) 13:13, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
RioHondo, your claim that the RMs for Binondo and Ermita were "supported by the WP community" is contentious at best, and utterly incredulous at worst. The agreement of two non-Filipino editors—editors who are not aware of our own naming conventions, as others have contended when those RMs went into effect against pleas for you to actually stop circumventing existing convention so that you can get what you want—is hardly an indication of "consensus" as far as I'm concerned. --Sky Harbor (talk) 09:16, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
Sky Harbor, ask your President seav. You get to see each other regularly through Wikimedia right? He started it, we supported it. You got issues with his RMs, go talk to your friend, not to me cos we have nothing to discuss. Im not protesting HTDs RM's eventhough I opposed them during deliberation. Santiago (Philippine city) is one. EDSA (road) is another. See we even incorporated those changes brought by those RMs in our proposal. Thats cos I understand how these RMs work. Thats how WP works. You can start another RM if you wish.--RioHondo (talk) 10:20, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
RMs for Binondo and Ermita were done just when there were intensive WP:MOSPHIL discussions were ongoing. These were commented by two WP:PINOY editors, no one else from here, the discussion was short, which means it shouldn't be taken as consensus that overrides WP:MOSPHIL. If someone makes a new RM someone can cite that fact. The RM on Santiago was rather long, and the article's name was indeed within the scope of WP:MOSPHIL but it seems the dabbing procedure is outside WP:MPOSPHIL's scope. You could argue that the consensus there is for that article alone as it is a "special case" and shouldn't affect other articles. EDSA (road)'s RM is outside the scope of WP:MOSPHIL as roads aren't included. –HTD 13:01, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
In addition re: Binondo and Ermita RMs -- these are also outside the scope of WP:MOSPHIL as these are generally informal but well-defined "districts" that is looked upon as one large "barangay". –HTD 14:43, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

RioHondo, you said, "disambiguate only when needed as per WP:PRECISE and WP:CONCISE." Maybe you should read WP:PRECISE thoroughly. Down below, it gave one geographic name, Bothell, as an example. Even though Bothell is precise enough to be unambiguous, they used Bothell, Washington. So please stop using this excuse as it is not appropriate for geographic names. Same with WP:CONCISE, it is not for this use.

You also said, "As for Matabungkay, again the Lian part would make your article unrecognizable to your readers. Why would the average reader click on something he is not familiar with?" You are again talking from your personal point-of-view, these are just your opinions. You knew that Matabungkay is in Batangas. Even you admitted that Wikipedia EDUCATED you that Matabungkay is a barangay of Lian. Isn't that the purpose of Wikipedia? You cannot separate Matabungkay from Lian as it is part of Lian. Wikipedia is not about yourself. Different people have different level of understanding what the word 'Matabungkay' is. Please stop viewing it only from your own perspective. Please follow the no. 2 of Wikipedia:Five pillars, Wikipedia is written from a neutral point of view.... "Editors' personal experiences, interpretations, or opinions do not belong."

We have to follow a naming convention rule, not the Filipino 'Bahala na' attitude. Wikipedia is not an anarchy. So those people who are not familiar with the Philippines will find it easier distinguishing which ones are the barangays, town, cities or provinces as we have three levels of local government not two.

From the Talk Page discussions I have seen, all of these renaming of geographic names were based on either WP:PRECISE, WP:CONCISE, WP:COMMONNAME or WP:PRIMARYTOPICS, which were inappropriately used for geographic names as I have explained above and disregarding our naming convention rule. I think those place names should be reverted back per WP:MOSPHIL. I agree with Howard the Duck, some of those were even renamed DESPITE objections from other editors. Again, Wikipedia is about for the knowledge of the READERS not us editors. Again, per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) policy, article titles should be chosen for the general reader, not for specialists (i.e., persons who are familiar with these places). -- Briarfallen (talk) 14:06, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

I will be starting to move some of the barangay articles that were moved to a BARANGAY NAME, PROVINCE format, which is so wrong as it is confusing as it is the format for municipalities per WP:MOSPHIL. For now, I am changing them back to BARANGAY NAME, MUNICIPALITY NAME, PROVINCE NAME format. -- Briarfallen (talk) 17:01, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Naming conventions for radio stations[edit]

I don't know the significance of using call signs in naming articles on radio stations. Why don't use the name most people can recognize? For example, DWTM should be moved to "Magic 89.9" & DWJM to "Jam 88.3" because the name is more recognizable than the call sign. Per WP:NC, one of the characteristics a good Wikipedia article title has is recognizability, regardless if it's a call sign or a name. Also on WP:RADIONAMING, it says:

Just like the places mentioned above, the Philippines has radio stations using either names or call signs to identify themselves. However, we should suggest that the country should be included in the places mentioned. Theenjay36 (talk) 02:50, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
The arguments are WP:RADIONAMING are to be used if all stations have them, whether they're known by it or not, and that some radio stations reformat rather frequently so we'd be moving some articles quite frequently. The thing is the Philippine government mandates radio stations to have callsigns, so the argument is we'd use them.
I suggest a test RM on DWTM. –HTD 03:53, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
@Howard the Duck: I think you should check this first. For me, we have the same thing in Australia that uses either names or call signs to identify stations. I know that all of the radio stations in the country uses call signs, but there are cases that the call sign is unknown to the listeners, like UNTV Radio La Verdad. I don't know if that station has changed the call sign since 2012 (see discussion here). And I think names & call signs should be used with respect to the stations. Theenjay36 (talk) 21:30, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
My position on this is the government "owns" the frequencies, then just "sells" (rents?) the franchises. That means our basis would be the frequencies, not call signs. So for a theoretical example, the article on the frequency currently "occupied" by "XYZ FM 87.5" that has had 2 callsigns and 5 reformats would include info from those 2 callsigns and reformats under the current name of "XYZ FM 87.5". –HTD
Much of your broadcasting framework is modeled after that of the U.S. (the occupation still wears off on them, it seems). All U.S. and Canadian stations use their call-signs for the article, unless they are a prominent network of multiple stations where much of the history is tied to the network rather than its individual stations. ViperSnake151  Talk  03:31, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Yeah I know, but most FM and TV stations do not use their call signs at all, unlike, for example, KIIS and KROQ in Los Angeles. I'm okay with FM and TV stations moved to the most frequent name (which may be their call signs), while the AM stations get to stay in their call signs. –HTD 03:35, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
At least for local FM and TV stations, I prefer that we follow WP:COMMONNAME, as that also follows the recognizability criterion of WP:AT. For AM stations, I agree that the call signs are widely recognized. —seav (talk) 22:22, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
I agree with you, Seav. Theenjay36 (talk) 20:31, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
Well, guys, should we apply this thing now or what? Theenjay36 (talk) 00:35, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
Do a test WP:RM and we'll see from there... –HTD 11:32, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
DWRT-FM might be a good test case. —112.209.168.101 (talk) 18:55, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
Done! Created a new topic as per suggestion. Sorry for being late. —theenjay36 (talk) 10:07, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Nomination of Dig Radio for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Dig Radio is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dig Radio until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Theenjay36 (talk) 08:32, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:9Media Corporation#Requested move[edit]

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:9Media Corporation#Requested move. What is the good title for the article? Is it "Nine Media Corporation" or "9Media Corporation"? Thanks. Theenjay36 (talk) 20:27, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

NCAA PH Badminton Champions[edit]

Hi! Napansin ko na inaccurate yung info nyo about NCAA Badminton. I just want to inform you guys na 2012-2013 EAC is the men's champion at 2013-2014 ay CSB men's team nila ang champion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.178.65.205 (talk) 08:31, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

You could edit those yourself as this is a Wiki. –HTD 12:24, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
And speak English too, not Taglish, kid.--Eaglestorm (talk) 03:44, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Nomination of UniversiTV for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article UniversiTV is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/UniversiTV until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Theenjay36 (talk) 08:50, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Our article alerts section is alrerady a very good job at notices so this probably isn't needed. –HTD 12:24, 12 December 2014 (UTC)