Wikipedia talk:Template messages/Archive 5

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Hyperlinks not workin on template, but only in one article..?

This template's hyperlinks don't work on the University of Limerick Debating Union article..?

Any ideas why?

Bogger (talk) 16:53, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


Message box standardisation

Last summer we deployed {{ambox}} for article message boxes and some weeks ago we deployed {{imbox}} and {{cmbox}} for image page and category page message boxes.

Now we have coded up the {{tmbox}} for talk pages and the {{ombox}} for all other types of pages such as "Wikipedia:" pages. This means all the namespaces are covered. Everyone is invited to take a look at the new boxes and have a say at their talk pages.

--David Göthberg (talk) 12:53, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Nature/Wildlife Template

Is there a template for nature or wildlife that we can use to quickly show some stats about an animal such as:

  • Life expectancy (wild/captivity)
  • Gestation Period
  • Sexual Maturity
  • Average Weight
  • Average height/length etc
  • Geographic distribution (if no map)

etc etc and so on an so forth?

If not, there should be. Would be a nice good quick reference for people to look at --Nzhamstar (talk) 16:47, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Template:Category:Continents

Is Template:Category:Continents a proper use for a template? The template name is confusing as well. Bebestbe (talk) 00:11, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Template limits

I was recently told by two different people that, a) there is a limit on the number templates a page may have (including any templates used internally by other templates) and, b) the wiki will stop processing templates if it takes longer than 30 seconds to evaluate them. Which is true, or are both statements accurate? Also, does the 30 second limit apply to a single template or the sum of all templates in a page? Thanks! SharkD (talk) 23:50, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, there are several limits to the amount of template code a page can hold. I don't know all the specifics but here are some I seem to remember:
  • If the page code expands to more than 2 Mbyte during processing then MediaWiki will stop parsing the templates. And the page code size here means the page text and all the templates on the page together.
  • There is a limit to the number of "expensive parser functions" that a page may have. The current limit is 500 such functions but that limit is going to be lowered to 100 soon. The only function of that type I know of is the "#ifexist" function.
  • There is a limit to template recursion. I am not sure but have a vague memory that the limit is 4 deep.
  • Yes, there seems to be a time out on normal page rendering. Actually, we who edit widely used templates sometimes sees that time out since when we save a change to a template like {{ambox}} (used on 375000 pages) we get an error message. The time out seems to be something between 30-60 seconds. The reason we see the time out when we save such changes is that it takes more than 30 seconds to insert the change in the job queue. But even thought we get an error message the template is saved correctly and gets fully inserted in the job queue.
Usually these limits are no problem. The limits mostly protect against sabotages and accidents where people have made too large template systems that would load the servers too much.
--David Göthberg (talk) 23:13, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your reply. I've since been informed elsewhere that you can open an article's HTML file in a text editor and find a commented out section titled "NewPP limit report" listing the statistics for the article. SharkD (talk) 04:43, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Oops, I should have mentioned that. Yes that "NewPP limit report" in the rendered HTML page lists some of the limits.
By the way, since you were asking about these limits: Have you ran into them when doing templates? That is, have you built something that broke because it became too large? Or were you just curios?
--David Göthberg (talk) 11:35, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Yes. It's discussed at length here. Note that I've improved the template's performance using optimizations. SharkD (talk) 23:08, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Forgot to mention that there is an article on the subject, Wikipedia:Template limits. Doh! SharkD (talk) 23:09, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the link to Wikipedia:Template limits. Interesting reading.
--David Göthberg (talk) 19:25, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Quick help please

I have been on Wikipedia for a while now, and I'm kind of embarrased to say that I need help with a seemingly simple thing. I recently joined Wikiproject beer but I can't figure out how to put the template on my user page. Can anyone here give me speedy instructions on how to do so?--Metalhead94 (talk) 23:40, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Edit your page and add the following: {{User WikiprojectBeer}}. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 05:35, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Searching the Wikipedia:Template messages subpage tree

The following {{Google custom}} template call generates a link to search the Wikipedia:Template messages subpage tree with Google:

Type this To get this What it produces, or searches for
{{google custom|en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Template_messages||search Wikipedia's template messages}} search Wikipedia's template messages Blank form to search the Wikipedia:Template messages subtree

This provides another useful option for looking up templates. Sometimes search is easier than drilling down through the hierarchical contents, for example when one does not know or remember the section containing a particular template or type of template. I would like to add this search link to Wikipedia:Template messages, and perhaps to its subpages as well, but I don't see a suitable place to add it. One way to add such search links is with a navigation template; for example, see {{WikipediaFAQ}} which appears on WP:FAQ and its subpages. That template contains a Search all FAQs link. Before I attempt to create a similar navigation template for the template messages pages, I'm asking for comments. --Teratornis (talk) 19:35, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

That search seems nifty, so yeah it would be a nice addition. You should probably link to it from the end of the section "Using this page" on Wikipedia:Template messages. And yeah, as you say having a navbox at the bottom of all these pages with links to all/most of them and also that search link seems like nice a nice idea. For the navbox I suggest the name {{wikipedia template messages}}.
I guess you/we have to try it out and we'll see how it looks.
--David Göthberg (talk) 11:45, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Sorry about the delay; I got a little sidetracked with a power outage associated with the Effects of Hurricane Ike in inland North America. But now things are back to more or less normal, so check out User:Teratornis/Sandbox2. That's a navbox template suitable for placing at the bottom of Wikipedia:Template messages and its subpages. A banner template for the top of these pages, or an infobox-style template for the upper right corners would be other possibilities. I don't have a strong preference. --Teratornis (talk) 22:50, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Ah yes, power outages. A very American thing. (I am a spoiled Swede...) But no worries, Wikipedia has no deadline.
I like the navbox in your sandbox. Just some small changes and I think it is ready to deploy:
1: In the second row "Non article-related namespace" you have the link "Wikipedia:Template messages". I think I see what you are thinking with that one, you are really thinking of Wikipedia:Template messages#Related pages for specific types of templates, right? But I think that link is confusing and you anyway link to the same page in the heading. So I suggest removing that one.
2: I don't like any of the links in the row "Information about templates". Such information is already available on the main page linked to from the heading. So I suggest removing that entire row.
I love the search link at the bottom of the navbox!!!
And regarding where to place this navbox: I don't think I would like it as a banner at the top, that would be a somewhat new and unstandardised place to put it. As an infobox-style navbox at the upper right corner could look okay, but would screw up the page layout for pages that don't have enough text to fill out until the first big table with templates comes below it. And screws up the page layout in 800x600 screen resolution and down on the Wikipedia:Template messages page since that one has such a wide table of contents. So I suggest keeping it simple and putting this navbox as a standard navbox at the bottom of the pages. At least for starters.
--David Göthberg (talk) 20:15, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Oops, that last link in the second row was an error - I was pasting in copies of the base page name link and editing the subpage names into them. I had one extra paste which I overlooked and should have removed. I will remove the third row as you suggest. I'll move the template to {{wikipedia template messages}} and place it at the bottoms of the template message pages. Can you suggest, offhand, a navbox template category suitable for this template, before I look for one? --Teratornis (talk) 19:37, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
Category:Wikipedia administration templates looks like the most suitable category I can find in a few minutes. Feel free to recategorize {{wikipedia template messages}} if you know a better category. --Teratornis (talk) 19:55, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

(undent) While I was poking around, I saw the previously existing {{Template messages}}. I thought it could use a search link too. So I added one to my sandbox copy: User:Teratornis/Sandbox2. However, that is not ideal because I followed the {{Hidden}} template style that the rest of the template uses. Thus the Search the template messages link has a spurious "show" link to the right, which expands into nothing. I don't know enough about the {{Hidden}} template to see how to get rid of that "show" link. Do we love the search link enough to justify figuring out a nice way to add it to {{Template messages}}? That template appears on a number of user pages, and might be more useful with a search link. Plus it would show more people that subpage trees are searchable with {{Google custom}}. --Teratornis (talk) 21:58, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

It isn't easy to categorise {{wikipedia template messages}}. I recategorised it into Category:Wikipedia templates, but I am not entirely sure about that choice. Oh, and I think {{wikipedia template messages}} looks very nice on the pages you put it on.
I don't have any point of view on the {{template messages}} template, sorry.
--David Göthberg (talk) 02:30, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm less concerned about the specific category; I just wanted to avoid having someone impugn the template as "uncategorized." Maybe there haven't been enough navbox templates for Wikipedia's project pages to justify making a category that would clearly apply to this particular template. As Wikipedia's internal pages grow (and that seem virtually certain, despite the fretting in WP:CREEP), the need for more tools to navigate them increases, just as it does for articles. Thank you for your help and advice. Hopefully some future editors will be slightly more productive as a result of {{wikipedia template messages}}. --Teratornis (talk) 21:11, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Help!

I can't find it and I'm sure there it's there but there are so may places to look. I need a template that I've seen before - it says that the article lacks a global perspective and talks/focusses on only about one particular part (US in this case). Where might I find it please? 86.150.102.220 (talk) 12:49, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Try Template:Globalize or Template:Globalize/USA. Mindmatrix 13:57, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
There are many places to look, so let Google do the looking:
Type this To get this What it produces, or searches for
{{google custom|en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Template_messages|perspective|search Wikipedia's template messages for: perspective}} search Wikipedia's template messages for: perspective Search the Wikipedia:Template messages subtree for: perspective
That finds the {{Globalize}} template's entry. However, as is normal with Google searches, one must follow the link to the result page, and do a Ctrl-F browser search to scroll to the position on the page with the correct instance of the search keyword. I should get busy with making a navigation template for the template message pages. --Teratornis (talk) 20:07, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Question

I have recently started announcing the date I will archive my talk page. I use my subpage User:Mythdon/Archiving announcement to do so and I treat it as a template for my userspace. Would it be okay if I used an image that is used for templates on my subpage as far as Wikipedia policies and guidelines?. Mythdon (talk) 05:05, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

How and where an image has been used before usually doesn't matter. What matters is the license of the image. So what image are you thinking of? So we can take a look at its license and give you an answer.
--David Göthberg (talk) 04:44, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
The ones usually used for template messages for articles. Mythdon (talk) 04:50, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
And what images might that be? There are hundreds of images used in template messages for articles. What I mean is that you need to link to the image you are thinking of using so we can take a look and answer you. Since it is an image you might want to prefix it with ":" so it becomes a link and not the image inserted here. Like this: [[:Image:Example.png]]
Of course, since you seem to be thinking of an icon then you can also show it in icon size here, like this: [[Image:Example.png|40px]]
--David Göthberg (talk) 05:02, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Image:Replacement filing cabinet.svg. Mythdon (talk) 05:26, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Oh, that one! That one has no licensing problems at all, since it has been released as public domain. You can use that one pretty much any way you like. And I think it would go very well with your "Archiving announcement". Will probably look very nice. Good choice. :))
--David Göthberg (talk) 14:19, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
I guess i might as well use it on all my archive subpages then. Mythdon (talk) 06:17, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Tutorials on writing templates

Stupid question #1: What language are templates written in? Does anyone know where I can find a tutorial on this language? ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 07:39, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

see Help:template and pages wikilinked from there. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 11:11, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Charles: That's not a stupid question. And I am not aware of an official name of that programming language. I usually call it "Wikipedia/MediaWiki template programming/code". For instance like this: "Yes, I think we can do that in Wikipedia template programming."
And fairly commonly used short forms are "template code" and "template programming".
Oh, and when you start experimenting with template programming, then please do so in your own user space. You can for instance code a template in "User:CharlesGillingham/Test1". Then to test it you can transclude it onto "User:CharlesGillingham/Test2" by using this code: {{User:CharlesGillingham/Test1|Some parameter.}}
--David Göthberg (talk) 15:58, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
More links are in the Editor's index under WP:EIW#Template. If you start creating user subpages, you can keep track of them by editing a list on your user page, such as I did here: User:Teratornis#Subpages. --Teratornis (talk) 19:56, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Template code may not have a specific name, but it is a mélange of wikitext, magic words, parserfunctions, and occasionally some HTML. --Teratornis (talk) 19:17, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
And CSS, although a template usually references CSS code from MediaWiki:Common.css. --Teratornis (talk) 19:22, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Published in the Public Domain?

What template should be used for works (specifically images) that were published in the public domain to begin with, or published as "anti-copyright"? Are these the same thing?

For example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Anrchcydinop.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Evasion_cover.jpg

These are covers of books both published as anti-copyright. Right now they both have non-free templates.

Is there an anti-copyright template? It seems that would be more appropriate, but I can't find one on the public domain image template page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_copyright_tags/Public_domain

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-copyright

Dnissley (talk) 20:02, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Making templates more transportable

There are examples where templates across wikimedia projects could be more transportable for example MW:Template:Cleanup and W:Template:Cleanup are not identical but are intended for the same task. However, the large number of template dependences are an issue if exporting content across wikis. Wikipedia templates are usually the most advanced and well documented. I suggest that where the word Wikipedia is hard coded inside a template it could be replaced with the magic word {{SITENAME}} making the content more transportable to anyones instance of MediaWiki. Then templates could be shared across (english) wikimedia projects more easily, however this will propagate snapshot copies, rather than reference the same revisions. This also doesn't address the potential of missing images. Are there any obvious performance issues which can arise from doing this? --Zven (talk) 20:46, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I found a thread discussing Use_of_templates_across_projects --Zven (talk) 20:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Bookmarking

We could do with a permanent link on the side menu to the Template messages page. It took me about two hours to find it after trying out all sorts of things in the search box and then eventually finding from another page (I forget which). Template messages is not an obvious thing to search for if you are a newbie in the UK... Jubilee♫clipman 02:31, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Here is perhaps the single most important link:
Put that on your user page, and then it is only one click away when you are logged in to Wikipedia, since your username should appear in the upper right of every page, as a link to your user page. I also like to put a link to the Editor's index in my Firefox bookmarks toolbar, since I refer to it so often.
If you need to look up the template messages often, you can put the {{Wikipedia template messages}} template on your user page, for quick reference. Lots of users use their user pages as a place to bookmark the links they use often. If you get totally lost, you can ask for help on the Help desk. --Teratornis (talk) 06:15, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Is there a template to indicate a malformed table?

I stumbled on Political party strength in Rhode Island and noticed how poorly formatted it is, in terms of its complicated use of rowspans and colspans, resulting in missing cell borders (at least in Firefox). I looked at Wikipedia:Template messages and some of the categories under Category:Wikipedia maintenance templates, and couldn't find a template I could use to note the table formatting problem. I guess I could use {{Broken}} but was wondering if anyone knew of a more specific template. Thanks. 67.100.125.80 (talk) 00:08, 2 January 2009 (UTC).

I've edited that article and tried to fix up the table format. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 04:33, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Help! Frustrated with Templates!

I was so excited that I finally got MediaWiki software installed and working on my own server. Now I am frustrated that to really make it functional, I need some of the basic templates that are well implemented in Wikipedia but not yet in my copy. From what I can tell, I have to copy each one over individually. I can do that with cut and paste, but it quickly becomes out of hand since templates are frequently hierarchical with one template built upon another. Couple this with also needing to download images needed to support the templates and the effort becomes impossible. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can get my wiki functional by providing a good base set of templates. I believe that templates are one of the major keys to success for Wikipedia.--P Todd (talk) 05:14, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

You also need a bunch of MediaWiki extensions (see Special:Version), and CSS style classes (MediaWiki:Common.css). When you download the MediaWiki software, you start out with a very bare-bones wiki. To make it look like what you're used to on Wikipedia, you will have to spend many hours porting templates. It's been a while since I looked around to see what documentation is available on how to do this. You could start by reading everything under WP:EIW#MediaWiki. Some templates on Wikipedia exploit some quirks of HTML Tidy, so you might have to install that too. MediaWiki administration is far from simple. You quickly realize how much value Wikipedia gets from its user community with so many highly skilled users. When you first install your own wiki, it's like having just a cargo cult version of the real thing. --Teratornis (talk) 06:09, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Thank you, Teratornis! This is all very interesting. For several years now, I have been trying to promote the usage of wiki technology for knowledge management on the projects and programs I've managed. I have also been interested in using it as a personal tool (imagine having a personal wiki that preserves all the notes you've taken since your school days, from books you've read, etc. combined with your own journal, searchable, linked, etc., etc.). Anyway, I'm finally getting around to seeing just what it would take to do this and am hitting these roadblocks. Seems like there would be a huge value in having an initial set of wiki templates that could be loaded on top of a barebones MediaWiki installation so that the 'basics' would all be available.--P Todd (talk) 05:58, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
It gets easier to imagine a personal wiki after reading the article. Also see mw:Manual:Wiki on a stick - you can run MediaWiki as your personal wiki. The place to ask questions about MediaWiki administration is mw:Project:Support desk, although responses can be sluggish there. The potential of wiki technology is enormous. I have some notes at User:Teratornis/Theory of Wikipedia - read everything I linked to. Yes, it is obvious that Wikipedia is vastly more efficient than almost any traditional real-world organization one has to endure to earn a paycheck (I like to say "Everything sucks compared to Wikipedia"), but it's easy to develop a wildly optimistic perception on Wikipedia because here you are viewing essentially the crème de la crème, a self-selected group of highly intelligent, articulate, conscientious people who get it. For the average person in the real world, what we do here is about as unattainable as becoming a supermodel or winning the Super Bowl. Most people can barely write, and they have no concept of taking notes or documenting their work so other people can figure it out. That's basically the reason why the United States imports about 12 million barriels of oil per day, so functionally illiterate people can drive cars to workplaces and rely on the crutch of face-to-face contact. As long as people can talk to each other, most of them simply will not write. They want to talk all day and then come home and watch TV. Now, maybe if "real world" for you means working with people who are basically smart - such as scientists, academics, etc. - then maybe your real world can get wikified. For most people, forget it, not with the current technology. Most people cannot learn on their own by reading the friendly manuals. Instead, they must be formally taught, as in school. So until schools realize they need to educate everyone to collaborate productively on wikis, it's going to remain a niche activity for people who are smart enough to grasp the point of it on their own. And we are a low percentage of the general population. If you want to wikify your workflow, you might be better off starting a company by recruiting people who already get wikis, rather than trying to sell the idea to an organization which is getting by without them. It's like the English imperialists going around the world trying to civilize everyone. Sometimes they did, and sometimes they didn't. --Teratornis (talk) 05:44, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Template tiger update

After a long time I now updated the english template tiger again:

So we have all informations (over 60 mio. entries) in the database. --Kolossos (talk) 20:14, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Other language Wikipedia transclusion.

I was nearly certain there was a template saying something to the effect that "Such & such language wikipedia has more thorough information on their version of this article, it is requested that a translator transclude the pertinent information to better this English language version of the article." etc. If such a template "doesn't" exist, someone should make one for the 'expand' section of templates. 24.22.62.144 (talk) 19:47, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Spelling question

If this is a silly question I'm sorry I'm really new. At the bottom of the page I noticed a word that I thought might be miss spelled, but I am not sure. The word being "Historial", shouldn't that be Historical? Thanks, ZachInOhio (talk) 00:00, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I just went ahead a fixed it, if my fix is wrong please tell me here and on my talk page. ZachInOhio (talk) 00:37, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

VG templates

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games#Discussion re. infobox VG Action and other related templates

I'd welcome any input from people who know about templates.

--  Chzz  ►  21:10, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

What to do when an a warning isn't severe enough

This is a question that has botheredme for a while. I've noticed that some editors (often those using automated programs) sometimes give out a level one warning when I believe something higher should be given. For example, if an editor or IP posts defamatory content (a recent one I've seen is that a biography of a living person was edited to claim that the subject is well known for having sex with his daughter. This received a level one warning. Admittedly, it was an IP editor, but the same IP has a history of vandalizing articles in a similar subject area. Is there anything I can do? It seems wrong to delete the level one warning and give a different warning, but it also seems like undermining the person who posted the original warning if I post a different warning directly underneath theirs referring to the same vandalism. However, it seems like one of the two might be the best way to go. Does anyone have some advice? Thanks, GaryColemanFan (talk) 16:03, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Tennis templates

Hi guys, I have been working hard on individual year templates for the ATP Tour (e.g. Template:1990 ATP Tour, Grand Prix tennis circuit (e.g. Template:1985 Nabisco Grand Prix and WCT circuit (e.g. Template:1973 World Championship Tennis circuit as well as some WTA templates. The majority of the links on them should be accurate but I was wondering if someone with tennis knowledge check through the completed templates. Some pre-ATP era tournaments are simply recorded as "[Place name] Open" and I have also been unable to find some of the tournament sponsor names, such as the name of the San Francisco tournament known as the SAP Open. They all need to be recorded with the sponsor name if applicable. Thanks. Can people either respond here or on my talkpage. 03md 11:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Category:Redirects from other capitalisations and Template:R from other capitalisation

FYI, one of the issues is categorization of redirects through a template, and the need to make the redirect a non-simple redirect to attach the template.

{{ R from other capitalisation}} and Category:Redirects from other capitalisations have been nominated for deletion on 4 May 2009. See WP:TFD and WP:CFD.

76.66.202.139 (talk) 09:45, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

link to Wikipedia:Template messages

How about a link to Wikipedia:Template messages from the messages themselves? The Template messages are quite visible in Wikipedia and yet to get to the documentation there is nothin in the messages themselves. Instead, each person has to go through the keyword discovery process to find the page hosting the documentation. How about the little vertical colored bar or the frame or something link to the Template messages page. In particular one wants to see a list of messages to select from when one thinks an article might need a message. Rtdrury (talk) 21:51, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Make a user subpage showing a specific example of what you want. Then suggest the change on the talk page of the template and see what other editors think. I like the v - d - e links that appear on {{Navbox}} templates. (The links come from the {{Navbar}} template.) It's nice if templates can be self-documenting. Another place to document a template is on its template page. That has the advantage of not cluttering up the template as it appears in an article. If you want a handy reference to the message templates, put the {{Wikipedia template messages}} template on your User page. --Teratornis (talk) 20:03, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

{{Underconstruction}} and {{majoredit}}

These templates seem to be abused somewhat to prevent the marking of a page for deletion--temporarily.Intelligentsium (talk) 02:22, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't think we can fix that problem from here, nor in the templates themselves. That is, we cannot make a template abuse-proof. If a template is available, someone can abuse it. Instead you could mention your complaints on the talk pages of articles where you feel someone abused a template, or mention it on the talk page of the user who placed the template. Checking the user's talk page may reveal a history of other warnings. As with vandalism, we have to fix it one instance at a time. --Teratornis (talk) 20:38, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

While reading an article I noticed how poorly sourced it was and thought about adding a template to the top of the page, only to then see that it already had a Refimprove banner at the top. Since many people automatically ignore anything that looks like a banner ad I suggest we look at changing important Template:Ambox using template messages. Instead of

maybe something like

This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding reliable references. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.

and

This biography of a living person does not cite any references or sources. Please help by adding reliable sources. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous or harmful. Find sources: (BLP unsourced – news, books, scholar)

? It can be made much prettier, but the main idea is to not have it look like a banner ad. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-07-02t18:28z

I think it's better for message templates to appear in boxes, to make them easy to distinguish from encyclopedic content. The Help desk gets plenty of questions about message templates, for example from new users who create new articles that have problems they don't know about yet. When someone writes an article and the next time they look at it, a bunch of message templates have appeared, they will probably notice. In any case, the template does not have to be noticeable to everybody, it only has to be noticeable to one user who can fix the problem. If some users have banner blindness, it won't matter because we have 24,876,127 registered user accounts. Somebody will see the banner eventually. Even you saw the banner when you looked closer at the page, to edit it. --Teratornis (talk) 19:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Awkward template

I swear that I remember way back when you could add:

 {{awkward}} just like {{citation-needed}} 

to a sentence or construction if it needed to be rewritten because it sounded awkward (just like the copyeditor's mark "awk" in newspaper editing) but you couldn't figure out how to appropriately rephrase it. It would make a little superscript awkward? or something like that. I have hunted for it, and can't find it! Am I crazy, or does it or something like it in fact exist? If not, I would suggest creating it, unless it has been removed for some particular reason. Thanks, Peace and Passion (talk) 22:46, 28 July 2009 (UTC).

Redirect/Disambiguation Needed

These are commonly called "flags" in forums and talk pages, which makes it likely that a new user will search that term, but that term is completely unconnected to this article. As there is no article for "Wikipedia Flags", I suggest a redirect when that term is searched, as this is almost certainly what the person was looking for. Unfortunately, I don't know how to create said redirect, or I would do it myself. :-) I have also added Wikipedia "flags" to the disambiguation page for the term "flag". Nightsmaiden (talk) 07:00, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Namedropping template

I am not sure if we really need another template, but I'd like to think that we could use one for articles that feature extensive namedropping. Often articles on barely notable artists and bands will feature long lists of people and bands they worked/played/drank with, articles on minimally notable organizations and companies have lists of notable companies they've worked for or with or next to, etc. I've come up with this: User:Drmies/Sandbox/template. As yet I have no specific policy to link to and would appreciate community feedback. I also need to know if there is interest in such a template at all, and how I would go about making it 'official,' so to speak (the document section at the bottom--I don't rightly know what to do with it). Your help would be appreciated! Drmies (talk) 17:22, 4 August 2009 (UTC)