Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aviation

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Red Arrows userbox[edit]

I don't know if somebody already made one for the Red Arrows but I did, to get this on your talkpage just add {{User:Nathan121212/userboxes/Redarrows}}

Red Arrows, Southport Airshow 2009 (01).jpg This user is a fan of the Red Arrows


Tell me if you want one for another team. P.S. I'm quite new at this so tell me if it can be improved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nathan121212 (talkcontribs)

Three B737-800s written off in train crash![edit]

OK, now that I've got your attention, please go to Wikiproject Trains and read the thread I've posted there and give your opinion as the the possibility of the creation of a new article. Mjroots (talk) 16:48, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

If it broke Boeing or the airline that ordered them, possibly an article. But what's the lasting impact likely to be? GraemeLeggett (talk) 16:55, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
While aircraft were involved, its not an aviation incident....William 17:01, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Comments over there please. Mjroots (talk) 17:12, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
You mentioned it here and I am saying what it isn't. Which is relevant to here. This is an aviation project after all....William 17:20, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
It's not an aviation incident, but it is an incident involving aviation. I asked for comments at TWP to keep the discussion in one place. Mjroots (talk) 17:33, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:XtremeAir aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_14#Template:XtremeAir_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 15:16, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Zenoah aircraft engines[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion#Template:Zenoah_aircraft_engines. - Ahunt (talk) 15:19, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:ZALA aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_14#Template:ZALA_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 15:30, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

RT aerostats systems[edit]

A new article has recently been created for RT aerostats systems. This company appears to be a subsidiary of Aeronautics Defense Systems. The new article lacks references and other good things - should it be improved or simply merged in with the parent article? Comments please at Talk:RT aerostats systems. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 09:03, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Windward Performance aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at [[1]]. - Ahunt (talk) 17:56, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Wings of Freedom aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion#Template:Wings_of_Freedom_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 17:56, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:World Aircraft Company aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion#Template:World_Aircraft_Company_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 17:56, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Worldwide Ultralite aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion#Template:Worldwide_Ultralite_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 17:56, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:William Evans aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion#Template:William_Evans_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 17:56, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Mass nomination of aircraft manufacturer nav boxes for deletion[edit]

Please join the discussion on this subject at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Aircraft#Mass_nomination_of_aircraft_manufacturer_nav_boxes_for_deletion. - Ahunt (talk) 17:56, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Weller Flugzeugbau aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_15#Template:Weller_Flugzeugbau_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 20:58, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Whittaker aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_15#Template:Whittaker_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 20:58, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Welch aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_15#Template:Welch_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 20:58, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Walter Haufe aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_15#Template:Walter_Haufe_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 20:58, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Wagner aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_15#Template:Wagner_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 20:58, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:W.F. Stewart Company aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_15#Template:W.F._Stewart_Company_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 21:04, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:V-STOL Aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_16#Template:V-STOL_Aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 14:30, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Velocity aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_16#Template:Velocity_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 14:30, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:VFW-Fokker aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_16#Template:VFW-Fokker_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 14:30, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Vidor aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_16#Template:Vidor_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 14:30, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Viking Aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_16#Template:Viking_Aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 14:30, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Volmer Jensen aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_16#Template:Volmer_Jensen_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 14:30, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Vortech aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_16#Template:Vortech_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 14:30, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:UL-Jih aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_16#Template:UL-Jih_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 15:13, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Ulrich Hütter and Wolfgang Hütter aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_16#Template:Ulrich_H.C3.BCtter_and_Wolfgang_H.C3.BCtter_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 15:13, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:US Aviation aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_16#Template:US_Aviation_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 15:13, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Trixy aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_17#Template:Trixy_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 15:26, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Tri-R aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_17#Template:Tri-R_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 15:26, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Towle Marine Aircraft Engineering aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_17#Template:Towle_Marine_Aircraft_Engineering_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 15:26, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:Thruster Aviation Services aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_17#Template:Thruster_Aviation_Services_aircraft. - Ahunt (talk) 15:26, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Canard Rotor/Wing[edit]

I have started an informal merge/delete discussion at Talk:Canard Rotor/Wing — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 10:49, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Is this real?[edit]

To me it seems like Draft:Boeing Honeywell Uninterruptible Autopilot consists of very little hard information amplified by large servings of synthesis and conjecture, but I may be wrong. The draft needs to be reviewed by someone familiar with the subject area. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 17:34, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

The editor in question appears to have got bored waiting for review, copied it across to main article space at Boeing Honeywell Uninterruptible Autopilot (BUAP) and kept working on it. I think the topic is viable but the article needs a lot of work. I guess the draft could be made a redirect (the editor either didn't care enough about its edit history or know to move that across) but I'm not sure of the correct way to pick up the pieces. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 19:23, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
[Update] there is another rudimentary article on the Boeing Uninterruptible Autopilot, created by a different editor but contributed to by this one and now, it seems superseded by the new one. We will need to revisit the title of the surviving article, including the use of "Honeywell", a hyphen and/or an acronym. After a minimum of digging this appears to be a highly contentious topic associated with aircraft security measures and heavy disinformation is likely to be thrown about on both sides. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 19:46, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
I've formally proposed a merger at talk: Boeing Uninterruptible Autopilot. The BUAP article is the older one while BHUAP is newer. But the discussion can choose the other name instead of which came first. I've also asked for a histmerge from the draft article. -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 07:27, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Is there a proper name for this "device" or is it a descriptive term? In which case ought to be lower case article title. Seems like a fair bit of Snyth and OR - or a least extrapolation from meager sources - being used to construct the article. GraemeLeggett (talk) 07:39, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
We need to also guard against the topic being hijacked :( by 9/11 conspiracy nuts, as this type of article is fodder for their fantasies. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:45, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

2014 Olsberg mid-air collision[edit]

An issue is being discussed at talk:2014 Olsberg mid-air collision. Members of this Wikiproject are invited to voice their opinions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjroots (talkcontribs) 21:14, 20 July 2014‎

Notification of nomination for deletion of Template:The Butterfly aircraft[edit]

This is to inform the members of this Wikiproject, within the scope of which this template falls, that this template has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 July 24. - Ahunt (talk) 12:21, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

This has triggered a complaint at WP:ANI, see here. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 14:26, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

ET409 article content dispute[edit]

At Talk:Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_409#Unexplained_reverts_by_Jetstreamer someone needs to examine the content that was removed and restored and determine what parts of it are sourced to which sources and whether those sources are reliable. AFAIK I see YouTube and WikiLeaks content cited and I am not sure whether they meet the reliable source criteria WhisperToMe (talk) 04:27, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

I've locked the article for a week to allow all parties to discuss the issue and agree on a solution. Mjroots (talk) 21:54, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Use of flags[edit]

Didn't we have a concensus that, generally, flag icons are not wanted in aviation related articles? If so, is it documented somewhere? I am asking because someone (with the best intentions, doubtlessly) keeps on adding one in the infobox to Air Force of the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Jan olieslagers (talk) 09:41, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

@Jan olieslagers: That's a persistent behaviour from both IPs and regulars. Yes, we had consensus. MOS:FLAGS is the first page to point at.--Jetstreamer Talk 10:19, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick and supporting reply. Upon second views, however, it seems that the flag icon is used in the infobox of many air force articles - should they then all be removed? I am afraid it will not be easy to convince all the flag supporters... and the flags must have been there for a good while now... Just an example from the "Brazilian Air Force" infobox: |country=  Brazil . Quid ? Jan olieslagers (talk) 10:35, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
See: WP:AVISTYLES (which could do with some expanding) - The only place they are normally acceptable for the aviation project is within the main operators section and should never show up in an infobox or navbox. The problem is that is that they waste the limited space available, force an additional template to be loaded for each flag, increasing load time if a lot are used, and as aircraft have often been operated by successive governments under different flags (ie Germany, Russia etc) removing the flags removes a source of pointless argument without any loss of information. OTOH on the military project they are used quite widely (especially as just icons), and pages that show up on both projects this distinction may be confusing to some editors.NiD.29 (talk) 17:15, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
Flags are acceptable in certain areas. Tables of victims in aircrash articles. Operators in aircraft type articles. Infoboxes in some instances (per WP:MILHIST practices]]) Mjroots (talk) 06:25, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for all the comments - it is nice to be among people who can see both sides of the medal, as we say here. As the article in question touches upon both aviation and the military, I will not make the issue a casus belli. And the flag icon has been reverted out by someone else, so no issue anyway for the time being... If it ever comes up again, I will mention this little discussion. Jan olieslagers (talk) 07:09, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Air Serbia[edit]

Can someone please take a look at Air Serbia and Jat Airways? The latter has been merged into the former one despite no consensus for doing so. Thanks.--Jetstreamer Talk 23:27, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

The user keeps reverting me [2] [3]. This is serious.--Jetstreamer Talk 23:39, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Last clean versions reinstated. The user changed their mind after discussion at my talk.--Jetstreamer Talk 00:35, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Air Serbia – issue[edit]

Hi everybody! Please take a look at Jat Airways and Air Serbia articles. These two articles are about the same airline company, now-called Akcionarsko društvo za vazdušni saobraćaj Air SERBIA Beograd (in Serbian language). This is a joint-stock company, flag carrier of Serbia based in Belgrade. It employs about 1,500 people and has a revenue of 135.30 million euros. In 2013, company then-called Jat Airways (then 100% ownership of the Government of Serbia) has signed a strategic partnership with Etihad Airways, who later bought 49% of shares. Company then commenced operations under new brand name Air Serbia on 26 October 2013. One user started discussion on 1 August 2013 (on the day a strategic partnership has been signed) whether or not should be article Air Serbia be merged to Jat Airways (See here: [4]). Neglecting his/her will to help, I contest this discussion since it was opened nearly three months before any name change was official, and therefore I contest objectivity and neutrality of the opinions (before 26 October 2013 and after) and eventually results of the discussion ("no consensus to merge"). Yet more, I have few sources which annul any speech about has it to be merged or not. All three are official, two of the company itself: [5], [6] and one from the Serbian government Agency for Business Registries: [7]. Now I want you to read provided links. Former two says that company only renamed its name (read re-branded), and the latter say that it was founded on 29 February 1992. This puts one big period on this issue.

Yesterday, I have made big cleanup on both articles (fixed links, copy-pasted text - edited it in order to put it in correct form, made fairly good general overview and kept neutrality and simplicity), and eventually redirected Jat Airways article to Air Serbia article. This was how the article Air Serbia looked after it: [8], you can re-check all the text here and verify that way my writing. Then, I've got reverts from some prominent good-faith editor, which later took us in so-called war edit. We have made a consensus later that articles should remain as they were until we exchange thoughts with other users. The only argument that contributor had against my edit, were the discussion results and mine disrespect of them , which I contest under named reason. I hope I can get as more opinions on this issue from other contributors. Thanks! --AirWolf (talk) 02:24, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

The user asked me to start a new merge discussion. I've done so and placed the corresponding templates at both Air Serbia and Jat Airways. Please feel free to voice you opinion here.--Jetstreamer Talk 13:03, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
I did ask you, but you refused, and it should have stayed that way until we get opinions from other users. You have disrespected my voice once again by putting a new merge discussion now. Please self-revert your actions. As already explained here, the previous discussion was not legitimate. This way you are trying to fix your mistake by opening a discussion on 1 August 2013. I have provided reasons why now there is no need for a new discussion. We should wait for other contributors to give their opinion on his issue. Thanks--AirWolf talk 13:46, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
I don't understand you. I've removed the merge discussions from both articles. Please do not make me waste my time and also do not contact me again for this matter at my talk page.--Jetstreamer Talk 13:49, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
"Now the user does not want another merge discussion. Rv myself." (in description of edits) Do not try to make me a jerk by putting such content. I have explained you here why we should wait. After some opinions arrive, there will be two options: 1. To start a new merge discussion which I oppose; 2. To directly revert my edit (read - to merge) because of the reasons I provided; This is how the show has to run, if you really want it by "legal rules" (on which you insisted since the day one).. For other users, please just write opinions below about this issue, this conversation was just of technical nature. Thanks.--AirWolf talk 14:01, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Update: I saw that some users in a [9] were questioning how should Aeroput has its own article (wanting to indicate that Jat Airways should have its own too) based on statement from the text saying: "The airline was officially renamed to JAT - Jugoslovenski aerotransport (Yugoslavian Air Transport) on 1 April 1947, and formally replaced Aeroput in 1948." which is not true. Aeroput ceased its opertions in 1943, in the middle of the Second World war, and JAT Yugoslav Airlines was a legal-successor of the Aeroput, but also a new company and not just renamed as in the case of Jat Airways re-branding to Air Serbia. See source for this information here: [10].--AirWolf talk 14:31, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

This really needs to be discussed on the article talk page, the recent move/merge request did not gain a consensus. MilborneOne (talk) 17:33, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Update No.2: One user again started merge discussion so I won't request from him to revert it, because anyone in the future will do the same. My apologies this way to Jetstreamer, I just wanted to make a consensus with others what is the best to do. From now on, please leave your opinions here: [11] --AirWolf talk 20:52, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

"Flight path" for airway?[edit]

See the changes made to flight path (then airway (aviation)) by User:SilkTork on 27 February. I've never heard of "flight path" being used as a synonym for "airway". 213.7.249.124 (talk) 16:24, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

They are not the same thing so should not have been moved. MilborneOne (talk) 17:36, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Can someone move it back then? 213.7.249.124 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 20:35, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
If no one does it first, you can file for a return to status quo at WP:RMTR ; I will note that flightpath leads to a different place... -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 08:37, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
I know, but it would've taken a logged-in user very little time. 213.7.249.124 (talk) 08:44, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
I settled it, validation welcome. Jan olieslagers (talk) 08:57, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
Cool, thanks. 213.7.249.124 (talk) 09:22, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
User User:Espoo has added "flight path" as a synonym, I still don't agree to that. The furthest we could go is something like An Airway (sometimes incorrectly called a flight path) is ... Opinions? Jan olieslagers (talk) 05:54, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
While granting that Wikitionary is not a reliable source, it does equate "airway" and "flight path". I haven't had a chance to check other dictionaries, but is this perhaps an Engvar issue? Also, we'd need a good reliable source to say "flight path" is incorrect, technically or otherwise. - BilCat (talk) 06:19, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
To me, it's an error, a flight path is the path a flight takes, or the path a flight plan details, and not a route designed to funnel various flights through the sky. The airway may form part of a flight's flightpath, but it in and of itself isn't one. -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 06:24, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
I checked my national AIP: it uses "routes" in the titles, which is confusing enough... The word "airway" is used sparingly, "flight path" not at all. Perhaps consult some other AIP's, too? And yes, linguistically a flight path does not mention altitude information, an airway does, but BilCat is right that we want some kind of formal confirmation. Jan olieslagers (talk) 06:56, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

What about moving Flightpath (disambiguation) to flightpath and redirecting flight path to it? -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 06:29, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

That can be dealt with once we have the definitions sorted out, including whether or not flightpath and flight path are truly synonymous. - BilCat (talk) 07:09, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

IMHO this is one of those issues where everybody knows perfectly well that an air way or air corridor is an air traffic control thing, while a flight path is followed by an individual aircraft. Flight paths follow such air ways often enough for ignoramuses to confuse the two, especially when they come across phrases like "regular flight path". In practice a given flight path may pass from one airway to another en route, perhaps dropping out of an airway to a regional airport: the flight path is then flown to its conclusion though the airway is not. Engvar doesn't come into this aspect - at lest, not without rock-solid sourcing. ATC need to give clear and unambiguous instructions, so I cannot imagine them letting this ambiguity through. Cambridge University Press publish a text book actually (and serendipitously) called "Flightpath" - if anyone has access to a copy, that should give a definitive answer (e.g. to prove me totally wrong). But I do think that attempting to distinguish flight path from flightpath would fall foul of Engvar. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 08:29, 10 August 2014 (UTC) [Updated 08:33, 10 August 2014 (UTC)}

From Cambridge Aerospace Dictionary (Gunston, Bill, The Cambridge Aerospace Dictionary Cambridge, Cambridge University Press 2004, ISBN 978-0-521-84140-5/ISBN 0-521-84140-2) -
flightpath: Trajectory of centre of gravity of vehicle referred to Earth or other fixed reference.
airway: BS.185, 1951: ‘An air route provided with ground organisation’. Most civil air routes are flown along ICAO IFR airways, typically 10 nm wide with centreline defined by point-source radio navaids spaced sufficiently close for inherent accuracy to be less than half width of airway at midpoint. Each airway has form of corridor, of rectangular cross-section well above Earth. Airspace within is controlled, and traffic separated by being assigned different levels and from ATC having position reports and accurate forecasts of future position (typically, by ETA at next reporting point). In general, made up of a series of route segments each linking two waypoints.
NiD.29 (talk) 15:45, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

An IP editor furiously further complicating matters. I am getting sick of this. Could we get the article locked until a consensus can be found? In despair, Jan olieslagers (talk) 17:55, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Spare me the dramatisation. 87.228.164.233 (talk) 18:09, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
You spare me your deities, then. Jan olieslagers (talk) 18:12, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Arbitration formally requested. Too bad. Jan olieslagers (talk) 18:14, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I'll spare you my all -- I'm done. Clearly, it was a mistake to bring up this issue here in the first place. Honestly, have you even read the changes you've been reinstating? An airway is "a designated route followed by aircraft in flying from one airport to another"? [bold is mine] Do you even know what airways are? 87.228.164.233 (talk) 18:16, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Honestly, I do have. I am unhappy about them, too. ((later addition: And yes I do know what airways are. Even passed exams that mention them.)) But blind reverts do not solve anything. That was why I asked you to wait for the outcome of discussion, much as had User:BilCat. Again, I do appreciate your zeal, and I actually think we are fundamentally on the same line of thinking. Just a bit of patience, Rome wasn't built in a day, you know. If User:Espoo doesn't come up with solid arguments in a couple of days, and no other parties bring solid points, I promise to revert to one of your versions. Jan olieslagers (talk) 18:24, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
No, that is not how it works. When an edit's disputed, practice is to revert to the latest stable version. We're not keeping factually incorrect information for "a couple of days". 87.228.164.233 (talk) 18:26, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Source? Jan olieslagers (talk) 18:29, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
WP:STATUSQUO 87.228.164.233 (talk) 18:34, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Thank you! Copied from there: explore alternative methods, such as raising objections on a talk page which is exactly what I invited you to. But I found no support of reverting there, as you claim "practice is to revert..." Jan olieslagers (talk) 18:40, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Selective reading at its finest. "If you make an edit which is good-faith reverted, do not simply reinstate your edit – leave the status quo up ... During a dispute, until a consensus is established to make a change, the status quo reigns." 87.228.164.233 (talk) 18:43, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Do you still not see that the edit you reverted was not mine? And allow me to repeat: it is more than likely that on the facts you and I are on exactly the same point of view. The one thing I can not and will not accept is that you began to revert while wiser people (not meaning myself!) wanted to wait for the end of discussion. The page you referred to does not support your point We're not keeping factually incorrect information for "a couple of days", it does suggest discussing towards consensus. I will now stop arguing, and hope for others to put in their bit. Jan olieslagers (talk) 18:53, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, you should stop arguing if you've got no understanding of why reverting a revert is not ok. 87.228.164.233 (talk) 19:32, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
The page is about airways so why so much effort to include flight paths, which are not airways. (see definitions above). A flight path is the trajectory of the aircraft (nothing more), an airway is an imaginary highway through the sky created by very specific government regulations that an aircraft MAY follow so as to make directing traffic easier. The definition for airways should only include the actual alternative names as used by aviators and government bodies (such as the US, UK, ICAO etc) and not random words someone could misconstrue to mean something that might be confused for an airway, and any alternate names should be referenced so we know who uses the term.NiD.29 (talk) 05:05, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
ICAO Definition of Airway.NiD.29 (talk) 05:50, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
I wonder if he'll revert you too, or if his beef's only with IP editors. 87.228.164.233 (talk) 08:58, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Inclusion of accidents in general aviation "aircraft type" articles.[edit]

Please see my post at Talk:Pilatus PC-12#Notability of the included accidents. I'm afraid WP:AIRCRASH is not sufficiently explicit about accidents involving general aviation. The criteria in the guideline seem tailored for airliner and military aircraft accidents. We need to be more specific about what makes any one out of possibly hundreds of similar accidents notable enough to include in the article about the aircraft type, particularly for types that exist in large numbers. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:54, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

I answered that over there, but I did want to add here that I think WP:AIRCRASH is very clear on the criteria! - Ahunt (talk) 13:56, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Was this addition appropriate?[edit]

At Hawker Hunter, a new user added a mention of Interactive Dynamic's G-PRII, claiming it is the oldest such aircraft and listing apparently himself as its pilot. I doubt the appropriateness of this addition, but I know little about aircraft and could use a knowledgable eye on it. Thanks, Oiyarbepsy (talk) 04:07, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Removed his name, as he is not notable, and I have a problem with the reference as it seems to be a blog entry.NiD.29 (talk) 06:27, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
That sounds ok, but should we then in fairness not also remove the name of the pilot of Miss Demeanour? Jan olieslagers (talk) 15:39, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
Done. Thanks, I missed that.NiD.29 (talk) 16:34, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Airway[edit]

Airway currently redirects to Respiratory tract. I started a discussion about this at Talk:Airway#Primary topic / disambig. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 08:34, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Request for "Location map" of Ethiopian 961[edit]

Is anyone interested in adding a "Location map" showing origin, destination(s) (as it had multiple stops), and crash site for Ethiopian Airlines Flight 961? It can help illustrate just how far off track the jet was taken

Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 10:40, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

"Fairfax"[edit]

30 SW (talk · contribs) recently rebuilt Fairfax Field (also up for rename [12] at WP:RMTR), by merging from Fairfax Airport and splitting to Air Force Plant NC, Fairfax Air Force Base, USAAF Modification Centers, "etc". I have no idea what "etc" means, that was the only information left at the page concerning the destination. The destinations that are mentioned could do with some cleanup as they are carrying redlinked categories. -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 03:56, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Any aviation publication reviews of Dealing with Disaster in Japan?[edit]

I started an article on Dealing with Disaster in Japan, a book about Japan Airlines Flight 123. I found reviews in social science publications and newspapers but I want to know if Flightglobal or any aviation specialist publications have reviewed the book

WhisperToMe (talk) 05:10, 25 August 2014 (UTC)