Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aviation

WikiProject:Aviation exists to co-ordinate Wikipedia's aviation content. However, if you are here to ask a question or raise a concern about a particular article, it may be better directed to one of the following sub-projects: WikiProject Aircraft for an article about an aircraft WikiProject Airlines for an article about an airline WikiProject Airports for an article about an airport

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Aviation WikiProject announcements and open tasks
A quick reference to aviation articles that are up for discussion and deletion is now available - watchlist it and use it! A new template updates you on current articles under review, and needing your input. Add {{WPAVIATION Review alerts}} to your userpage, and keep in the loop! Wikipedia:WikiProject Aircraft/Missing articles now lists almost 5000 articles that require creating or redirecting. Dig in! Aircraft engines now have a piece of the project banner. Enter |Engines=yes on any engine page you find! A new template is available to quickly create articles. Go to Template:WPAVIATION creator and start creating! The collaboration and review departments are open. Please visit and nominate or help review articles!
Articles for deletion 11 Feb 2012 – American Airlines Flight 1561 (talk · edit · hist) was AfDed by WilliamJE (t · c); see discussion (4 participants) 07 Feb 2012 – Jet fighter generations (talk · edit · hist) was AfDed by Hasteur (t · c); see discussion (7 participants) 07 Feb 2012 – Guidance, navigation and control (talk · edit · hist) was AfDed by TenPoundHammer (t · c); see discussion (8 participants) 01 Feb 2012 – 2000 Australia Beechcraft King Air crash (talk · edit · hist) was AfDed by WilliamJE (t · c); see discussion (8 participants; relisted) 01 Feb 2012 – 2010 Air Service Berlin Douglas C-47 crash (talk · edit · hist) AfDed by WilliamJE (t · c) was closed as keep by Bmusician (t · c) on 08 Feb 2012; see discussion (6 participants) 01 Feb 2012 – Tajik National Guard Helicopter crash (talk · edit · hist) AfDed by WilliamJE (t · c) was closed as no consensus by Armbrust (t · c) on 08 Feb 2012; see discussion (10 participants) 31 Jan 2012 – 2007 Bangalore plane crash (talk · edit · hist) AfDed by WilliamJE (t · c) was deleted; see discussion (5 participants) 31 Jan 2012 – 2007 Sudan Airways hijacking (talk · edit · hist) AfDed by WilliamJE (t · c) was deleted; see discussion (4 participants; relisted) 30 Jan 2012 – Indian Airlines Flight 557 (talk · edit · hist) AfDed by WilliamJE (t · c) was closed as redirect by Martijn Hoekstra (t · c) on 08 Feb 2012; see discussion (6 participants) 30 Jan 2012 – Southwest Air Lines Flight 611 (talk · edit · hist) AfDed by WilliamJE (t · c) was closed as merge by Armbrust (t · c) on 08 Feb 2012; see discussion (3 participants) Proposed deletions 11 Feb 2012 – List of Air Training Corps squadrons (talk · edit · hist) was PRODed by TenPoundHammer (t · c): Does this need a list? 11 Feb 2012 – ER (Extended Range) (talk · edit · hist) was PRODed by DexDor (t · c): This could be renamed List of things that have ER (meaning Extended Range) in their designation to pass WP:NOUN, but it's still not WP:Notable. No substantial in-links. Nothing obvious to redirect it to. 11 Feb 2012 – List of passengers and crew aboard the final flight of LZ 129 Hindenburg (talk · edit · hist) was PRODed by GraemeLeggett (t · c): a lot of redlinks with little likelihood of them becoming articles. No indication that the list is of itself notable 03 Feb 2012 – Guidance, navigation and control (talk · edit · hist) PRODed by TenPoundHammer (t · c) and endorsed by GraemeLeggett (t · c) on 04 Feb 2012 was deproded by Bearian (t · c) on 07 Feb 2012 31 Jan 2012 – Rutherford Page (talk · edit · hist) PRODed by Fram (t · c) was deproded by DGG (t · c) on 07 Feb 2012 31 Jan 2012 – Accord Software and Systems (talk · edit · hist) PRODed by RHaworth (t · c) was deleted Templates for discussion 04 Feb 2012 – Template:Aviation accidents and incidents in 1785 (talk · edit · hist) TfDed by Koavf (t · c) was closed; see discussion Featured article candidates 27 Jan 2012 – John Balmer (talk · edit · hist) was FA nominated by Ian Rose (t · c); see discussion 12 Jan 2012 – George Andrew Davis, Jr. (talk · edit · hist) was FA nominated by Ed! (t · c); see discussion A-Class review 29 Sep 2011 – De Lackner HZ-1 Aerocycle (talk · edit · hist) was put up for A-Class review by The Bushranger (t · c); see discussion 08 Feb 2011 – Hughes Airwest Flight 706 (talk · edit · hist) was put up for A-Class review by Mukkakukaku (t · c); see discussion 14 Dec 2010 – Rajiv Gandhi International Airport (talk · edit · hist) was put up for A-Class review by Abhishek191288 (t · c); see discussion 14 Dec 2010 – Bengaluru International Airport (talk · edit · hist) was put up for A-Class review by Abhishek191288 (t · c); see discussion 03 Nov 2010 – Cochin International Airport (talk · edit · hist) was put up for A-Class review by Arunvarmaother (t · c); see discussion 27 Sep 2010 – Arado E.381 (talk · edit · hist) was put up for A-Class review by WikiCopter (t · c); see discussion 22 Feb 2010 – List of aviation shootdowns and accidents during the Iraq War (talk · edit · hist) was put up for A-Class review by Magioladitis (t · c); see discussion undated – Jesse L. Brown (talk · edit · hist) was put up for A-Class review; see discussion Good article nominees 05 Feb 2012 – John C. "Pappy" Herbst (talk · edit · hist) was GA nominated by Binksternet (t · c); start discussion 04 Feb 2012 – Reinhard Heydrich (talk · edit · hist) was GA nominated by Diannaa (t · c); see discussion 18 Jan 2012 – Gordon P. Saville (talk · edit · hist) was GA nominated by Binksternet (t · c); start discussion 03 Feb 2012 – No. 79 Wing RAAF (talk · edit · hist) GA nominated by Ian Rose (t · c) was promoted, see discussion Good article reviews 29 Oct 2011 – Airbus A380 (talk · edit · hist) was nominated for GA review by Tpbradbury (t · c); start discussion 03 Oct 2011 – British Airways (talk · edit · hist) was nominated for GA review by Cloudbound (t · c); start discussion 07 Sep 2011 – Ellington International Airport (Texas) (talk · edit · hist) was nominated for GA review by Postoak (t · c); start discussion Requests for comments 08 Feb 2012 – Wikipedia:WikiProject Airports (talk · edit · hist) RfC by Trevj (t · c) was closed; see discussion Peer reviews 27 Jan 2012 – American Airlines Flight 191 (talk · edit · hist) has been put up for PR by Wgfinley (t · c); see discussion
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Aviation WikiProject Articles for review

Peer review  Alaska Airlines • De Havilland Mosquito •Air France Flight 447 • Flight Information Service Officer • Instrument Approach • C.W.A Scott A-Class review(Criteria/FAQ)  Hughes Airwest Flight 706 • Cochin International Airport • List of aviation shootdowns and accidents during the Iraq War

Aviation WikiProject
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FAC for British European Airways Flight 548

The British European Airways Flight 548 article is currently at FAC. Can we please have some input this time round as it was not promoted last time due to a lack of reviewers. Mjroots (talk)

AFD notice

Taquan Air has been nominated for deletion. --Mûĸĸâĸûĸâĸû _(blah?)

AfD notices

For those interested, the following articles are at AfD:

• AH.9 Lynx crash
• 2011 Brazilian Air Force Cessna 208B Grand Caravan Crash
• 2008 Piper PA 28 plane crash (second nomination)
• 1967 N3381W Piper Cherokee crash

WikiProject Rocketry

Hi there AVIATION folks, just to let you know that there's a discussion ongoing at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rocketry#Project abolishment? regarding the abolishment of WikiProject Rocketry, with the suggestion being that its duties be divided up between WP:SPACEFLIGHT, WP:MILHIST and WP:AVIATION. As such, input from editors in this project would be appreciated to determine whether consensus is for the project to be abolished and if so how its duties should be divvied up between the projects. All views welcome! :-) Colds7ream (talk) 17:16, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

We'd really appreciate input from y'all, folks! SalopianJames - previously Colds7ream (talk) 15:06, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

A set of options have been crystallised, at least one of which directly affects this project, so please come along and make your views known! SalopianJames - previously Colds7ream (talk) 09:53, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

NARA on-wiki ExtravaSCANza participation

Please see User:The ed17/NARA to brainstorm ideas and a structure on how we can help make the National Archives ExtravaSCANza a success, in the hope that such events will continue in the future. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 10:06, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Flight Test Installation

The article Flight Test Installation has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Unreferenced orphan substub/dicdef. It would be better to add any referenced info to Flight test than here.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. DexDor (talk) 19:22, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Just make it redirect to Flight test, maybe Flight test instrumentation, or something else related. -Fnlayson (talk) 19:27, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

I agree and will carry that out. - Ahunt (talk) 20:13, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Republic of Singapore Air Force lost Roundel

Hi, is this some kind a joke that we can't upload to the Commons the RSAF's two roundels (or one)? [1] [2] I can't use them in the Hungarian wiki. A few years ago I used the RSAF Roundel.svg file, but I see it's gone. It is on the list, but we can use it only here in en.wiki. Can we do something (could use any other laguages)? --Gyantusz (188.142.193.35 (talk) 23:27, 3 January 2012 (UTC))

Copyrighted images cannot be loaded onto Commons. It was probably deleted. The two roundels on en.wiki have fair-use-rationales. If the Hungarian wiki allows fair-use images, then you can upload copies there. Fair-use images are supposed to be uploaded to each language separately (kind of weird... there should be a fair-use repository, where using an image from it requires a FUR on the file page, instead of duplicating images all the time) 76.65.128.132 (talk) 08:04, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

The whole point of Commons is to provide a repository of images which can be widely reused in many different circumstances. This is not entirely compatible with FUR, which is about "OK, this image is copyrighted, but I think have a really good excuse for using it in condition X in location Y". bobrayner (talk) 13:22, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not saying that Commons should take fair-use templates, but that there should be a fairuse.wikimedia.org or something, that would reduce the amount of duplicated files across all Wikipedias/otherWMF that use fair-use files, which would require FURs for any file that is loaded there, and requires the file be used. 76.65.128.132 (talk) 05:54, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

New Zealand balloon accident

A balloon crash in New Zealand has killed eleven people. This is very rare for a balloon crash. Is there consensus among members of this WikiProject that the accident is notable enough to sustain a stand-alone article. I know the ASN Wiki-base is not a reliable source, but those linked from it are. Mjroots (talk) 23:37, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

It seems to have got quite a bit of coverage from media around the world (the Guardian called it "New Zealand's worst air accident for more than three decades") so I think it's likely to pass the GNG. bobrayner (talk) 23:58, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

I have created Carterton hot air balloon accident. per Guardian [3] Any problems, with thepage name particularly please advise/fix! - 220 of ^Borg 01:18, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

* Also posted notification at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Aircraft#Carterton hot air balloon accident --220 of ^Borg 01:58, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Another page was started an hour earlier at 2012 Carterton hot air balloon crash, so 'my' Carterton hot air balloon accident is now a re-direct to that better developed article . (Oh well!) - 220 of ^Borg 02:18, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Aircraft carriers

Hi the Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier has been tagged foe this project. Is that correct I can obviously see the link, but can find nothing here to confirm that's normal. Jim Sweeney (talk) 14:15, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't think it does any harm. Might be more relevant to this project if there were something really interesting/unusual about the ship's complement of aircraft or how it gets used. bobrayner (talk) 18:43, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

USS Enterprise (CVN-65) and Nimitz class aircraft carrier do not have WP:Aviation project banners. The Mil History banner with Aviation=yes should be enough. -Fnlayson (talk) 21:00, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

OK I have deleted it Jim Sweeney (talk) 21:54, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

A carrier is a place to land and take-off for aircraft, so is an aerodrome, so is an airport, IMO, so all carriers should be covered by aviation, since they are a major element integral in a type of aviation (naval aviation). The only reason these ships exist is to service aircraft... the same as any airfield. 76.65.128.132 (talk) 09:56, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Isn't this an issue for WP:AIRPORTS to decide upon? Mjroots (talk) 09:22, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Probably... 76.65.128.132 (talk) 06:12, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Are these airports?

Should Category:Aircraft carriers be listed in Category:Airports? Vegaswikian (talk) 22:11, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I've put it under Category:Military airbases (which is under Airports). DexDor (talk) 22:25, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

You should ask at WP:MILHIST or WP:SHIPS, but carrier =/= airbase, IMHO. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 09:22, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

A carrier is a place to land, store and take-off aircraft, so is an aerodrome, so is an airport, IMO, so all carriers should be covered by aviation, since they are a major element integral in a type of aviation (naval aviation). 76.65.128.132 (talk) 09:56, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

To a sailor a carrier is a ship (that carries aircraft), to an airman a carrier is a (mobile) airbase. Both views are correct so carriers belong under both vehicle and infrastructure categories. Pretty much every facility provided by a land airbase (fuel, ordnance, maintenance, aircrew accommodation, ATC, security, rescue etc) is also provided by a carrier. Further discussion might be better at Category talk:Aircraft carriers. DexDor (talk) 10:20, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

I think that putting carriers in Category:Military airbases is inappropriate. We already have a perfect category for them; Category:Aircraft carriers. Also, we already have a discussion here and very few people watch category talk, so I'm not sure that change of venue would be helpful. bobrayner (talk) 12:56, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

• Category:Aircraft carriers is still being used. It is now a child category under Category:Military airbases, which seems appropriate. -Fnlayson (talk) 13:56, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Discussions in category talk pages are not the best choice. The number if editors who watch categories is extremely thin so the project pages would gather much more attention and input. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:10, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

The Convert template

There is currently a discussion at Template talk:Convert#Flight Level. Please comment there. D O N D E groovily Talk to me 18:41, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Category:Aviation terminology stubs

Greetings! A stub template or category which you created has been nominated for renaming or deletion at Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion. The stub type most likely doesn't meet Wikipedia requirements for a stub type, through failure to meet standards relating to the name, scope, current stub hierarchy or likely size, as explained at Wikipedia:Stub. Please feel free to make any comments at WP:SFD regarding this stub type, and in future, please consider proposing new stub types first at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals! This message is a boilerplate, left here as a courtesy, and should not be considered personal in nature. Dawynn (talk) 03:01, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Airlines

I noticed something: The English Wikipedia has Command Airways, a US airline - Even though it has an ES link. The ES link leads to a different airline: This es:Command Airways (Sudáfrica) is a South African airline. Seemingly unrelated. Its only interwiki link is to the American airline

Are they both real? If so, should we start moving things around? WhisperToMe (talk) 22:11, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

I think the interwikis should be removed, since they're not actually the same topic.

If somebody were to create a new article for South African one on enwiki (or for the American one on eswiki) then that might require a little moving around or at least a hatnote or two... no? bobrayner (talk) 23:13, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Don't remove them as it will confuse the iw-bots. Comment them out and explain why. Mjroots (talk) 08:21, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Not sure if the South African one would pass WP:CORP. It may not be notable.Nigel Ish (talk) 10:13, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Did some googling, the South African company is a helicopter charter operator, not an airline. I found no mention of it is anything resembling a RS other than business directory listings - they've never made the mainstream news or even aviation trade press except for adverts. Roger (talk) 14:05, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

If you want I can suggest deletion on the Spanish Wikipedia. I know some people on there who are bilingual English-Spanish, and they can help with the AFD process over there. WhisperToMe (talk) 09:21, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Accident investigation agencies and ad hoc

I notice that with some countries, even though the ministries of transport and/or aviation authorities have aviation accident reports posted on their websites, it is possible that some reports are actually written by ad hoc committees.

If this is the case, then does any government agency from that country count as the "investigating authority"? Or does it just mean that the country has no authorities that actually investigate aviation accidents? I'm mainly thinking this will impact articles related to developing countries in Africa and Asia.

Also would it be alright if I post links to investigation reports from certain countries, so you guys can judge if the report is written ad hoc or if a specific aviation accident investigation agency/permanent committee wrote it?

Thank you, WhisperToMe (talk) 09:21, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

I think it's likely that many countries will have an authority which is formally responsible for investigation, but if there aren't many accidents (ie. a small country) then there's not much point having a standing team of specialist investigators, and if state capabilities don't stretch as far as the state's nominal reach (ie. a developing country) then it would be quite reasonable to delegate investigation to somebody else. As long as the investigation still happens and the reports are still written, that's the main thing... feel free to post some examples so we can haggle over specific details!

In my (very different) field it's quite normal for infrequent and highly specialist investigations to be farmed out to third parties. An organisation will usually have an officer who has some kind of formal responsibility for the investigation, but they would really commission it or coordinate it rather than being responsible for writing every word. bobrayner (talk) 23:13, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the

I do recall for the UTA Flight 141, the national commission of enquiry set up by the government of Benin asked the French BEA to do the entire technical investigation full stop. I know this because the BEA itself wrote the original accident report in French

For others, here are the statuses that I ask about.

Bahrain: Gulf Air Flight 072 - The Accident Investigation Board was appointed on 24 August 2000 - http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2000/a40-ek000823a/htm/pdfs/appendixa.pdf - The accident occurred on 23 August 2000

Cameroon: Kenya Airways Flight 507 - http://www.ccaa.aero/images/blogs/d033e22ae348aeb5660fc2140aec35850c4da99744f683a84163b3523afe57c2e008bc8c/rapport%20kenya.pdf - "By Decision No. 098/PM of 8th May 2007, itself modified by Decision No. 099/PM of 09th May 2007, the Republic of Cameroon created a technical commission of inquiry to establish the causes, and make the necessary safety recommendations concerning the accident of the B737-800 that occurred in Douala on the 5th of May 2007."

Ivory Coast: Kenya Airways Flight 431 - http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2000/5y-n000130a/pdf/5y-n000130a.pdf - "In accordance with Annex 13 of Article 26 of the Chicago Convention, the Ivory Coast, the State of Occurrence, launched an investigation. While a Commission of Inquiry and a Technical Committee were established, legal steps were taken by the Ivory Coast civil aviation authorities as soon as the accident occurred on 30 January 2000" (Pg 11) - And Appendix 2 lists the composition of the commission (pg 100)

WhisperToMe (talk) 23:56, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

List of Boeing 737 operators

A new IP editor is removing images from the tables in List of Boeing 737 operators despite no agreement to remove them and has reverted attempts to revert his/her changes. Attention from interested parties welcome, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 19:18, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I've never seen that article before, but it does seem to me that the images are more decorative than informative, and I would have no objection to removing some (bearing in mind we can't expect reasonable-quality free images for all operators). But on a related point, would it be practical to populate the tables with numbers rather than with asterisks? Or would it be too difficult to keep up to date? bobrayner (talk) 19:48, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I am sure User:Russavia may be along soon to comment on the images but through his work on commons images for a lot of the operators may be available. The page was still being developed with the images to see what it looked like and if it was suitable for other similar pages. I dont think we want to go into numbers they are loads of self-published airline enthusiast sites that spend years collating information on numbers and identies, all of which would not really be encyclopedic. MilborneOne (talk) 19:57, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

You say shit, and I bob up. Here I am. User:Russavia/737 is something I have been working on for some time now. Photos of almost every 737 operator are available, and I am continually sourcing more. As to numbers, they are an absolute pain in the arse to do -- because airlines, especially with long history of 737 operations, would see aircraft coming and going on a regular basis -- taking aircraft on lease for 12 months and returning them, and seeing them come back again after that. A green asterisk (current operator) with numbers operated is doable - a red asterisk for previous operators would be better. Anyway, the list in my userspace is still prob 2 years off being in mainspace -- unless I post it, and let other editors do the sourcing for all of the information there. Y u no be Russavia ^{ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)} 20:30, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Air France

An edit war seems to have broken out at Air France. Being a good admin, I've fully protected the article at the WP:WRONGVERSION for three days. Input from members of this WP is sought at talk:Air France. I've not blocked the parties in this dispute because I want them to discuss the issue. Mjroots (talk) 07:27, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Rear pressure bulkhead

The article is at aft pressure bulkhead but I have also seen "Rear pressure bulkhead" - Is the latter term correct too, or as common? WhisperToMe (talk) 10:45, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

The latter gets fewer ghits, but it's still used here and there, including in reliable sources such as flightglobal. Rear pressure bulkhead is currently a redirect to Aft pressure bulkhead, and I think that's the best way to do it... bobrayner (talk) 13:01, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Ah, okay. The reason I asked is because the English version of a JAL123 image labels the part as a "rear pressure bulkhead" - It was a translation from a Polish file, and a Polish user suggested "rear pressure bulkhead" File:Rear pressure bulkhead B747.svg - Since it's an accurate term, it's fine WhisperToMe (talk) 17:48, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Question - why not a general pressure bulkhead (aircraft) article that can also accomodate coverage of the forward pressure bulkhead. GraemeLeggett (talk) 19:04, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Rear pressure bulkhead is the phrase I'm familiar with. Mostly due to failures causing accidents. Mjroots (talk) 06:10, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

WikiWomen's History Month

Hi everyone. March is Women's History Month and I'm hoping a few folks here at WP:Aviation will have interest in putting on events (on and off wiki) related to women's roles in aviation history, society and culture. We've created an event page on English Wikipedia (please translate!) and I hope you'll find the inspiration to participate. These events can take place off wiki, like edit-a-thons, or on wiki, such as themes and translations. Please visit the page here: WikiWomen's History Month. Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to seeing events take place! SarahStierch (talk) 00:54, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

An-28 Crash

It looks as though we've finally had the first major airliner accident of 2012. An Antonov An28 has crashed in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Given the recent rash of AfD nominations, let's see if there is consensus that the 2012 TRACEP-Congo Aviation Antonov An-28 crash should be created.

The flight was a domestic cargo flight, and three of the five crew were killed. The aircraft was destroyed. The aircraft had been flying without a CoA since 1993! Mjroots (talk) 09:14, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Coverage

• JACDEC
• ASN
• Washington Post
• Radio Okapi (French)
• RIA Novosti (Russian)

Probably only worth a mention in the Tracep-Congo Aviation article as it is not really notable for cargo airlines to crash in that part of the world. The An-28 is not exactly a large aircraft either. MilborneOne (talk) 14:05, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

With a MTOW of 6,100kg, it's not exactly a light aircraft either. Mjroots (talk) 12:58, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

True but being about the same size as a Twin Otter it would have needed to have hit something or killed something important to be notable for a stand alone in my opinion. MilborneOne (talk) 14:42, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Aded to the An-28 article. Mjroots (talk) 08:17, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

If you're looking for major accidents in need of an article, Here's one of them[4], Here's the 2nd[5], and here's the third[6]. All with over 100 fatalities and much more worthy than that An-28 crash. New accident articles aren't easy to do, so I have procrastinated on the above three but just did Linea Aeropostal Flight 253 today and since last Christmas I also created Laoag_International_Airlines_Flight_585, Air_France_Flight_212_(1969), Northwest_Airlink_Flight_2268, and British_European_Airways_Flight_706.- William 18:06, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm not currently looking to write any historic aircrash articles as I'm currently engaged on a major shipwreck project. Flight / Flight International magazines from 1909 - 2005 are available online for those researching aircrashes. Mjroots (talk) 10:16, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

• I concur that it's worthy of mention in the aircraft type article but likely not its own (only time will tell on that!). - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 18:22, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Guidance, navigation and control

Guidance, navigation and control (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) was prodded. As there are conferences on this topic for UAVs, it seems like this topic is notable? If so, it needs sourcing. 70.24.247.54 (talk) 06:08, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

New article on Continental and United merger

I found:

• "Making the World's Largest Airline Fly." BusinessWeek. February 2, 2012.

It talks about the behind the scenes of the merger extensively WhisperToMe (talk) 16:06, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

New geolocationing system

Over at Wikiproject:Highways we've discovered a nifty way of displaying data onto mapping services that I believe will be a large benefit to your projects. By using google earth, qgis, or similar software, you can draw lines onto the globe. These can be saved as a kml file, and the contents of that kml file can be used to, in place of or alongside the current {{coord}} system, display a shape or line on the Earth. I believe this group can benefit greatly from this as it can be used to draw flight paths.

We're still trying to work out the finer details on how to proceed with this new discovery, so if anybody is interested check out the talk page of WikiProject Highways. Cheers, - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 15:05, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

The above, should it ever become viable, should not be used "in place of… the current {{coord}} system", since it offers none of the functionality of that template, for identifying, locating, and producing KML (etc) of points of interest. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:41, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

(He made the coord template, so he feels like he is losing a child right now) - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 14:25, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Have you read WP:NPA? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:19, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Elsewhere, you just said "coord is far more appropriate for point-based topics". QED. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:01, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

I never supported using KML for point-based topics; but its far more versatile for linear topics. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 16:00, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

"I never supported using KML for point-based topics" Really? The rest of the world disagrees.

"its [sic] far more versatile for linear topics". Than what? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:33, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Destination list

I see there was previous discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aviation/Style guide/Layout (Airlines)#Destination list.

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Airports#Airline/Airport Table Voting. -- Trevj (talk) 11:27, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

The two discussions are not related. MilborneOne (talk) 18:40, 8 February 2012 (UTC)