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Changes in Mickey Mantle's all-star appearances by YahwehSaves[edit]

YahwehSaves has been changing how All-Star games are counted on the Mickey Mantle article, changing his all-star appearances from 20 to 16 based on counting the years where there were two all-star games as one appearance. The last time this was debated, the consensus was against him but he has apparently decided that since a couple of years have gone by he's gonna go ahead and implement these changes anyway. See here for the recent discussion on Mantle's talk page. EricEnfermero and I figured it should be brought here for wider debate on this. Spanneraol (talk) 23:28, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

I don't have a firm opinion, except that we should discuss it here and make a firm decision that applies to each article across the project. By bringing it up on individual articles, the discussion is getting spread out too thin. MisfitToys made the point recently at Talk:Minnie Miñoso that position players were almost always the same during the two games in a given season. If that's the case, especially if that's verifiable, I could see that as an argument for using the 16 rather than the 20. With the current consensus, it looks like consensus is to use 20. I'm not sure why an editor would edit against consensus just because time has passed. EricEnfermero (Talk) 04:45, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
To me, the fact that his Hall of Fame plaque mentions 20 all-star teams should settle it. His mlb.com page also lists all 20... despite what Mr. Saves says.. Spanneraol (talk) 05:02, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Looks like this has already been settled, but I would put my vote in for 20 as well. Garchy (talk) 15:49, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Yeah it's 20.--Yankees10 17:27, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
20. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:29, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
I would like to see citations from what the various biographical reference sources do; I think there is a good case to be made that the infobox ought to show the number of All-Star selections rather than games played, for better uniformity between players of different eras. isaacl (talk) 18:22, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Mantle was a 1959 All-Star, 1960 All-Star, 1961 All-Star, and 1962 All-Star (4 time All-Star, not 8). He wasn't a 1959... All-Star Game. He was awarded 16 times for being selected as an All-Star 16 times, for the Mid-Summer Classic 16 times (1959-30th; 2015-86th). I think this is what you're refering to? YahwehSaves (talk) 19:31, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I'm not sure if you're replying to me as the indentation level of your response doesn't correspond to my post. I'm asking specifically what is done by the standard baseball reference sources when providing a brief summary of players during that time period: do they show a count of the number of years in which the player was selected as an All-Star, or a count of all the games in which the player participated? I think providing a count of the number of years is better for comparison with players in all eras, but I understand if others feel otherwise based on what the standard references do. isaacl (talk) 19:58, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
As you can see on the Hall of Fame site, Mantle's plaque in Cooperstown refers to him as a 20-time All-Star. The specific wording is "Named on 20 A.L. All-Star Teams". – Muboshgu (talk) 20:06, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
That seems to settle the issue, as long as the HOF does that consistently with other players too. However, I see no problem pointing out in the article's main text that some of the All-Star games were played in the same year, and I'd even support a footnote in the infobox that does that also. - BilCat (talk) 20:21, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
A footnote in the infobox would probably be a good idea, as someone adding up the years would find that it doesn't equal 20. The prose should mention each and every ASG, including the times there were two in a season. As for the earlier comment by isaacl about "uniformity between players of different eras", I don't consider that possible, since the eras are so different due to rules that either favored hitters or pitchers, juiced or dead balls, steroids, and of course segregation. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:34, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
I disagree that what a Hall of Fame plaque displays necessitates that the infobox must list a count of All-Star teams; we can still elect to list number of All-Star years should we believe this is one of the key characteristics essential to a brief summary of a player. Hall of Fame plaques serve a slightly different purpose: they are at least in part promotional, to celebrate the inductee, and as such would naturally choose to include bigger numbers over smaller ones.
Regarding different rules and most other conditions, those are actually less of an issue regarding All-Star selections, since these are done more on a relative ranking basis, so the rules in effect at the time affect everyone equally. (Segregation is a notable exception.) The traditional stats are much more problematic. isaacl (talk) 21:49, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
I was replying to you Isaac and at the same time everyone so there would be fair and sensible consideration after I wrote. These aren't the original plaques. These plaques vary and some say, played in _ AS Games (Williams and Mays). Hank Aaron's for one don't mention AS. So, who's going to use that plaque for a reliable AS reference ? In the first place you have to be selected first to be an AS for that AS year to even play or sit the bench in an AS game. So how can 20 times be more important than 16 times? The info box incorrectly has, Career highlights and awards instead of Career awards and highlights. I would say MLB gives some type of recognition for being selected as an All-Star, Baseball-Reference.com has "Awards" by year as, AS, ROY, MVP... in this case the number is 16 "AS". That could mean there's a MLB award recognition of some type given to a player for being selected for All-Star playing rather than not. Thanks for your kind responses. No thanks for the unkindness or both at the same time shown to me here and elsewhere. YahwehSaves (talk) 22:45, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── From what I can see at http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mantlmi01.shtml, there are 20 All-Star entries including the multiple ones in a single year e.g. "1959-1" and "1959-2". I don't understand the argument that plaques with All-Star appearances cannot be used as reliable sources, merely because not all plaques have the same information. The fact that they are not uniform, does not mean the information when available is not reliable. I do not understand your issue of " Career highlights and awards" vs "Career awards and highlights".—Bagumba (talk) 01:33, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
I don't think there is a dispute about the Hall of Fame plaque being a reliable source for the number of games Mantle participated in (and there are ample reliable sources for this info in any case). The disagreement is whether or not what appears on the plaque should be used to determine what appears in the infobox: a count of yearly selections to the All-Star roster, or a count of All-Star games participated in. I understand why people gravitate towards a count of games; I just think it might be more useful, as a key characteristic of each All-Star player, to see the number of years, which gives a better indication of the breadth of the player's peak years (admittedly only a vague one). isaacl (talk) 01:51, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps this source can help: All-Star History [3] - here it mentions "All-Star Team appearances", but haven't seen anything here about "__ time All-Star or All-Star __ times" > 1959 All-Star Game [4] - here it has Game 1 and 2 as an All-Star "doubleheader" and mentions Don Drysdale "making his first of eight All-Star appearances" (matches the "Awards"-8 yrs AS at Baseball-Reference.com). The Don Drysdale Wikipedia page info box has 9x All-Star. I added another section in Mantle Talk > Info box: Career highlights and awards (MM article section has "Awards and achievements"). In MM article, All-Star begins as an award (because Baseball reference does) (all mentions on list are yearly recognitions) where in the Info box it begins as a highlight. As an award in article, its credited 20 "# of times" instead of 16 (its not considered an award by deleter, so 16 was deleted; and also "# of years was deleted). YahwehSaves (talk) 05:06, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
Some sources count AS by years, and others by number of games. To cherry-pick one set of references with one format and ignore the others is not very constructive; the other side can argue the opposite. Given that there is no consistency in sources, it's up to Wikipedia to choose how to present it. If it has been listed more-or-less consistently in WP as number of times (has it?), I'm not convinced so far that there is a strong reason to change it.—Bagumba (talk) 06:00, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
Are you opposed to my suggestion of using footnotes to mention the multiple years? Or we could list both - "20 All-Star appearances in 16 years", or something like that. It doesn't have to be one way or the other - we can list both, as long as it doesn't get too confusing, which is why I like the idea of the footnote.- BilCat (talk) 06:51, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, buried and missed it. No problem with footnote of some sort.—Bagumba (talk) 07:54, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
In regard to the Baseball-Almanac site I mentioned, it does have Minnie Minoso as a "seven time All-Star" as well as the Minoso site, Minoso should know, he played in those 59-62 AS games; Wikipedia "9xAll-Star". His site also straightened out his birtdate from Nov. 29, 25 to 1922. He could have impressed... people with 9 time All-Star but didn't. YahwehSaves (talk) 08:00, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
You're slicing and dicing info to fit your predetermined conclusion. For Minoso, Baseball Almanac says 7 years, 8 games, because he played in 8 All-Star Games across 7 years. He was named to the ninth but didn't appear in it. Does this mean you don't want to count All-Star appearances for the last guy on the bench who doesn't get into the game? Dellin Betances didn't appear in the 2014 game, but we still call him an All-Star. – Muboshgu (talk) 13:30, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
For Minoso: Minoso site > "Seven time major league All-Star" [5], Baseball-Almanac, bottom of page, "Seven-time All-Star" > [6], Baseball-Reference.com, 7 "Awards/Years" "AS" and 9 AS Games > [7], and Sports Data site, MLB rules for the 1959-62, 4 All-Star double games, 1 appearance credit per year, which would mean Minoso with 9 AS games got 7 appearance credits back then which had to be per year selected > [8]. For Willie Mays (Wikipedia 24xAll-Star): Hall of Fame site has 20-time All-Star, bottom of page > [9]. The Managers, Coaches, and Players selected the All-Star Team rosters in 1959-62 for each league. The players far as I know didn't select the All-Star Team lineups for game 2. YahwehSaves (talk) 20:38, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

This is an ongoing issue. See the lead at Nellie Fox. I don't think consensus has changed based on this discussion. EricEnfermero (Talk) 02:47, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

All concerned: The Hall of Fame plaque for Nellie Fox says 12-Time All-Star (15x All-Star, Wikipedia info box)[All-Star-refs 1] See the Hank Greenberg article, it has "5x All-Star" in the info box instead of 4, the 5th X being for the 1945 Associated Press game (and AP selection) when no official MLB ALL-Star Game was played (and no official MLB All-Star selections). MLB does not count the 1945 season (2015, 86th All-Star Game). The HOF references will come across better when its realized that there was only one official AL and one NL All-Star team each and every season (except 1945) with the two teams playing two games in 59-62. YahwehSaves (talk) 01:21, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
We may not have explained this well enough, but the point is that we have an established way of referring to the number of All-Star Games in baseball biographies. This discussion was an attempt to make sure that we don't want to change that method. It doesn't look like the discussion resulted in any changes. It's okay not to like something on WP; that happens to all of us. But we all agree to edit as a team and to respect consensus on well-discussed topics like this one. If I am overlooking something, someone let me know. EricEnfermero (Talk) 04:47, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
The issue I see is that the only rationale that has been given so far is "Mantle's Hall of Fame plaque says X, so list X", but since the infoboxes in other articles differ from what's shown on the plaque, the rationale does not accurately describe what is actually being done. Absent any line of reasoning, it's difficult to determine if there is in fact a consensus, or just inertia. isaacl (talk) 05:22, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
My understanding was that there has long been consensus to list it by number of games. Is that not right? EricEnfermero (Talk) 05:51, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
In the worst case, per WP:NOCONSENSUS: "In discussions of proposals to add, modify or remove material in articles, a lack of consensus commonly results in retaining the version of the article as it was prior to the proposal or bold edit."—Bagumba (talk) 05:55, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
From what I recall of the previous discussions, they have established that there is essentially one selection made during the years of multiple All-Star games, but beyond that, no line of reasoning was agreed upon to decide what to display in the infobox. So the inertia of "this is the way it's been done up to now" keeps the current values in place. Although this is a consensus of practice, it basically relies on a "I like it" / fait accompli justification. isaacl (talk) 16:30, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Keep in mind that consensus can change. "I like it" is probably the weakest argument for doing anything, but it represents some form of consensus, nonetheless. However, lacking a more convincing argument, it's not constructive to rehash an issue with no new arguments. There is no right or wrong, so let's pick one and move on.—Bagumba (talk) 17:24, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Sure, that's exactly why I've been trying to pursue this discussion. I have presented arguments, but unfortunately there has been very little response (hence why inertia keeps everything where it is). isaacl (talk) 18:20, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Hard to say if people are ambivalent or it just got buried at this point. Perhaps start a new thread stating all the facts up front. It's too scattered. I started the #Expand_ASG_article_for_multiple_games_in_same_year thread in hopes of at least getting the facts straight for the MLB All-Star Game article (which I see you already commented).—Bagumba (talk) 18:45, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
(outdent) I see no reason why we wouldn't include the 45 players on the infoboxes, which we've been doing anyway. Not the players' fault they decided to cancel it. The double games however, the more I read on the subject the more I'm utterly confused on how exactly the rosters were determined. There were clearly different players for each game, but how much of that was due to injury and how much was due to new voting or changes in stats? Wizardman 03:04, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
From the 1962 Sporting News Official Baseball Guide:
Continuing a practice begun in 1958, the managers, coaches and players of the two leagues again selected their circuit's starting lineup, exclusive of the pitcher. The only restriction was that no player could vote for a member of his own club. . . .
The managers of the two teams picked the remaining players. Each was limited to a 25-man squad for the first game. For the second, both were permitted to add three additional performers and lso make any desired changes in their pitching staffs.
isaacl (talk) 03:34, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

For more perspective, how do we handle players selected to one of the midseason official All-Star teams but replaced on the squad for injury, family obligation, etc? Infobox aside, is there any boilerplate prose explanation, or anyone who is comfortable with hir wording? --P64 (talk) 17:44, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm guessing that generally, anyone selected to the All-Star Game is considered an AS, whether they play or not. I'm not sure if there is any similar case in baseball as with the NFL's Pro Bowl, where a replacement who declines the invitation is not considered a Pro Bowler.—Bagumba (talk) 18:39, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Its any MLP player named or selected to the All-Star team not game that is considered an "All-Star" (selected as an All-Star player). Pitcher Wilmer (Vinegar Bend) Mizell [All-Star-refs 2] who was named to the NL All-Star team in 1959 had a back injury prior to the 1st game and was replaced [All-Star-refs 3] by pitcher Don Elston. This can be checked at Baseball-Reference.com - two 1959 All-Star games > both names appear as Reserve pitchers for both the 1st and 2nd games with Elston pitching 1 inning in 1st game and Mizell not pitching in any game (he just made the 1959 All-Star selection). Both would be considered by MLB HOF standards, a one-time All-Star that season meaning, a 1959 All-Star.
Roger Maris for one in 1959, didn't get named or make the AL All-Star team in 1959 until the 2nd game. Maris would be considered by HOF standards a one-time All-Star that season, meaning a 1959 All-Star. It appears being on the 1st game roster in 1959-62 meant you were automatically placed on the 2nd game's roster. YahwehSaves (talk) 09:02, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
Just to further this discussion, do we have references for the HOF standards on how they count All-Star selections? I did not know that such refs/standards existed. EricEnfermero (Talk) 15:36, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
Actually its not automatic (?), Mizell is not named on the official 1959 2nd AS Game program's NL 25 player All-Star Squad (Baseball-Reference has Mizell on the 1959 2nd AS Game, NL All-Star Reserve Player listing; included as an injured player of a NL 27 player roster).
In 1963, Mantle though he had a broken foot in May, was selected June 29 as an All-Star for 1963-AL, CF.[1] Mantle is not on the official July 9, 1963 All-Star Program's AL 25 player All-Star Squad (Albie Pearson is on the 25-player AS squad and played CF) nor is pitcher Bill Monbouquette who replaced injured pitcher Steve Barber (injured after June 29) who is on the 25-player AS squad. Mantle, Barber, and Monbouquette didn't play in the 1963 AS game. Baseball-Reference gives an AL 27 All-Star player roster that includes Mantle, Barber, and Monbouquette. YahwehSaves (talk) 02:41, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
References
  1. ^ [1]
My impression was that we were trying to reach consensus before making changes to the All-Star assertions on this article. Given YS's latest edits, am I misunderstanding the process? Consensus seems unclear to me, but we're back in the same boat, with the article being changed to reflect a particular preference. The out-of-process edits are more concerning to me than the actual issue of "x-time All-Star". EricEnfermero (Talk) 09:59, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Notability[edit]

The discussion summarized here (which in turn leads to 2 other discussions) may interest some followers of this page.

As I read it, it leads to major league baseball players (like former MVPs Al Rosen and Ernie Banks) being less likely to be considered notable than athletes in other sports, where the # 1 league includes non-English-speaking countries.

Because the notability test of that guideline is "how many non-English Wikipedias have articles on the fellow". --Epeefleche (talk) 10:48, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Thats a confusing guideline... it doesnt seem to be saying anything about him being notable just about if you can mention his birth... which makes no sense.. Since when is mention in wikipedia a grounds for any sort of notability?Spanneraol (talk) 12:36, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
Editors, following the guideline, this month deleted the two MVPs Al Rosen and Ernie Banks from the "Deaths in 2015" section. Because they weren't in effect notable enough, per the guideline. Basketball people who are in the US suffer similarly -- Dean Smith was also deleted. --Epeefleche (talk) 13:40, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
There are red links on Deaths in 2015, and people were deleting some of the most important American sportspeople? – Muboshgu (talk) 14:28, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
I get that objective criteria are needed because with the way Wikipedia works, there's no way everybody is going to be an expert on every domain. However, judging notability on an English Wikipedia using non-English sources is beyond me. Geographically speaking, it inherently creates a European bias. What's the saying about a camel being a horse designed by committee? Well, credit should be given if the camel was the desired outcome.—Bagumba (talk) 18:39, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
"Notability" is the wrong term here.
At the moment Nick Koback (January) is listed, as well as Banks (Jan) and Rosen (Mar). The Koback and Rosen entries do hint any difference in notability, simply identify the sport and one ballclub. Banks is distinguished, thanks to the Hall of Fame; same for Dean Smith (Feb).
Not only does the list include numerous redlinks --which seems to me appropriate for people with pages in 10 other languages-- but the March 2015 currently includes these four redlink Americans: Jack Jurden, 88, American cartoonist; Jim Doherty (harness race driver), 71, American Hall of Fame harness racing driver and trainer; Joe McDonnell (American radio personality), 58, American radio sports commentator and talk show host (KNX); Brett Young (Canadian football), 47, American CFL football player (Ottawa Rough Riders), kidney failure. (Evidently there is a policy to delete redlinks after one month, with edit summary "no articles".) Which American baseball players are routinely listed? Does someone here do it systematically?
What such discussion needs (there, not here) is illustration. Advocates of rules in the "10 languages" family should show 10-language and 5-language versions of a selected months in the past. --P64 (talk) 18:19, 19 March 2015 (UTC)


Nomination for deletion of Template:Central Texas Sports, etc.[edit]

Ambox warning blue.svgTemplate:Central Texas Sports and several similar navbox templates have been nominated for deletion. Given that the subjects of these navboxes are within the scope of WikiProject baseball, you are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:53, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Expand ASG article for multiple games in same year[edit]

With the continued debate over the infobox display of multiple all-star games in the same year, I can't seem to find any sourced mention of these multiple games occurring, including the reasons behind it and the roster selection process. There's just a brief unsourced mention in the lead. Can someone in the know update MLB All-Star Game with verifiable information. The entire infobox debate threat is TLDR to determine the facts for these games.—Bagumba (talk) 17:49, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

In this thread, Baseball Bugs cites the 1962 Sporting News Official Baseball Guide with information on the All-Star selection for that year. In this earlier discussion, Baseball Bugs cites the 1960 guide though without providing a quote. isaacl (talk) 18:35, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
This NY Times article has background on the reason for two All-Star games. isaacl (talk) 14:31, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
Text of the 1962 guide can be found at the Internet archive. Here is a scan of the relevant page. isaacl (talk) 14:47, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
All can see from above in 1962 Guide for 61, "1945" AS Game has under Results of Previous Games, "No game played". So why is "1945" in several MLB info boxes when the official 1945 AS Game was cancelled on February 8 before the 1945 season started (also no official AS selection ever occurred; Associated Press had a selection)? Only official MLB highlights are allowed in info box.
These 1959-62 "All-Star" players total "times an All-Star" are correctly shown in their MLB HOF Bios and Plaques when it says times an All-Star: Willie Mays "20-time All-Star", Nellie Fox "12-Time American League All-Star", Yogi Berra "fifteen time All-Star" [1] (18x All-Star, Wikipedia info box); total years selected an All-Star (player).
The 59-62 double AS games had two official programs those seasons (two "ALL Star Game" booklets, there was no "Game 1 and Game 2" booklets). MLB also counted the two games as one All-Star Game per season (26th, 27th, 28th, 29th). That was changed later to MLB counting these AS Games as 2 AS Games for 1959-62 (26-27, 28-29, 30-31, 32-33 ; 2015=86th AS Game instead of 82nd).
Mantle didn't play in the 1952, 1962 Game 2, 1963, and 1965 All-Star Games. He was selected an All-Star those seasons but did not make the 1963 and 1965 AL All-Star Teams (25-player AL AS squads) because of injuries. So, now you can see why HOF goes by AS year appearances ("times an All-Star") and not times games. YahwehSaves (talk) 04:32, 29 March 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by YahwehSaves (talkcontribs) 01:13, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
References
  1. ^ 'Yogi Berra', "fifteen time All-Star" [2]
I don't actually see any explanation from the HOF as to why they usually refer to years and not games. Am I not seeing something? EricEnfermero (Talk) 02:35, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Cardinals minor league page[edit]

Can someone help keep an eye on Cody Stanley's blurb at the Cardinals minor league page? An IP is removing factual info about his suspension. I've already reverted a few times, but i'm over the limit.--Yankees10 23:42, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

In this case, it's vandalism, so 3RR dosen't apply. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:54, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Infobox and accessibility[edit]

There is a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Accessibility#Accessibility_with_infoboxes that is related to Template:Infobox baseball biography having data inside a header, such as the current placement of the player's number and team.—Bagumba (talk) 00:23, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Baseball team title moves[edit]

User:Conde da Wiki153 was making some seemingly odd moves of some former major and minor league baseball team titles. I attempted to restore the long-standing names, but I may have messed up some due to dab links. If I have, please feel free to let me know and I will clean up. Rlendog (talk) 01:57, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

MiLB rosters out of date[edit]

Just a notice that I see lots of MiLB roster templates that are out of date. I've updated a few, but don't have the time to keep doing this all afternoon. Can anyone else jump in? It's mostly in the Class A levels, but also some at AA. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:57, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

I can look at some of them later this evening. EricEnfermero (Talk) 18:05, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
I've started my trip through updating these things... I tend to make two passes during a season, once when the season starts and then again after the short season leagues start... takes a little while to make my way through all of them though. Spanneraol (talk) 19:43, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
We probably should have done this before Opening Day. I'll have time tomorrow to work on this. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:53, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
Can't really do it before opening day because most of the minor league teams dont actually have accurate rosters until the season starts. Oh, can I mention one more time how I absolutely loathe the minor league roster navboxes.. they are a complete waste of space. Spanneraol (talk) 20:08, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
I've done maybe 10 DSL rosters so far. Spanish names are fun. Trut-h-urts man (TC) 20:09, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Managerial record tables[edit]

Are the manager articles supposed to contain win-loss records tables like the one found at Kevin Cash? Mellowed Fillmore (talk) 16:57, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

I don't think there was a clear consensus the last time this was discussed at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Baseball/Archive_39#Managerial_record. I don't mind some stats. I personally think end of season updates are sufficient for bios, not daily.—Bagumba (talk) 18:25, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Draft:Brandon Naples[edit]

Hello baseball experts! This old AfC submission will soon be deleted as a stale draft. Is this a notable player? Should the page be kept and improved?—Anne Delong (talk) 21:14, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Not notable. Spanneraol (talk) 21:24, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Spanneraol. I have deleted it.—Anne Delong (talk) 21:43, 16 April 2015 (UTC)


Cite error: There are <ref group=All-Star-refs> tags on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist|group=All-Star-refs}} template (see the help page).