Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council

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WikiProject Council
WikiProject icon This page relates to the WikiProject Council, a collaborative effort regarding WikiProjects in general. If you would like to participate, please visit the project discussion page.
 
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
What's a WikiProject?
A WikiProject is a group of people who want to work together. It is not a subject area, a collection of pages, or a list of articles tagged by the group.
How many WikiProjects are there?
Nobody knows, because groups of people may start working without creating pages or may stop working without notifying anyone. As of 2014, about 2,200 were participating in article assessments for the Version 1.0 Editorial Team. There is a manually maintained list of WikiProjects at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory.
What's the biggest WikiProject?
Nobody knows, because not all participants add their names to a membership list, and membership lists are almost always out of date. You can find out which projects' main pages are being watched by the most users at Wikipedia:Database reports/WikiProject watchers.
Which WikiProject has tagged the most articles as being within their scope?
WikiProject Biography has tagged about 1.2 million articles, making it more than three times the size of the second largest WikiProject. About ten groups have tagged more than 100,000 articles. You can see a list of projects and the number of articles they have assessed here.
Which WikiProject's pages get changed the most?
See Wikipedia:Database reports/WikiProjects by changes. These changes may have been made by anyone, not just by participants in the WikiProject.
Who gets to decide whether a WikiProject is permitted to tag an article?
That is the exclusive right of the participants of the WikiProject. Editors at an article may neither force the group to tag an article nor refuse to permit them to tag an article. See WP:PROJGUIDE#OWN.
I think a couple of WikiProjects should be merged. Is that okay?
You must ask the people who belong to those groups, even if the groups appear to be inactive. It's okay for different groups of people to be working on similar articles. WikiProjects are people, not lists of articles. If you identify and explain clear, practical benefits of a merger to all of the affected groups, they are likely to agree to combining into a larger group. However, if they object, then you may not merge the pages. For less-active groups, you may need to wait a month or more to make sure that no one objects.
Shortcut:

Might wikipedia WikiProjects expand a little into other WF entities?[edit]

Recent discussion regarding Wikinews indicated that there isn't really that much effort from that many people regarding the content of that WF entity. I can speak from some recent experience that at least a few other entities, like Wikisource, don't get that much attention or effort either. Yeah, the rules of each entity are different, but that difference would allow for inclusion of some material in those other entities which might be important, if not necessarily encyclopedic. Also, speaking from some review of the matters here myself, there are still a lot of articles of fairly obvious notability and significance which can be found even in some older reference sources but can't be found here yet.

Regarding specifically wikisource, over at wikisource:User:John Carter I have a rather longish list of several hundred well-regarded PD reference sources in all areas which are available as pdf files, and whose articles in many cases would be extremely useful for both providing at least some useful, readily-available content for some wikipedia articles, and providing sources to establish both the notability and an indicator of potential content for articles not yet created. Unfortunately, I can also say that it takes the better part of an hour to proofread a single page from Encyclopedia Britannica, at least for me, and the comparatively few editors such sister entities have clearly isn't enough for all the work available. Luckily, several other reference works, with the large print they used in ye olde dayes, take only about 15 minutes a page to proofread, because of the relatively small amount of text per page.

For those of you involved in trying to get WikiProjects to work, I was wondering what you might think of what ways, if any, we might be able to call attention to content of other entities, if we should even try to do so. All input is more than welcome. John Carter (talk) 21:16, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

This is an interesting idea, and it will be a lot easier to do when WP:Flow permits cross-wiki discussions.
I think that I'd have an easier time helping out at those projects if I had a clear, concrete idea of what I could do that would be helpful to them as well as would support our goals here. For example, if there were a list of terms that needed to be defined at Wiktionary, or a list of sources that needed to be proofread at Wikisource, or something like that. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:45, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
WikiNews'd probably be the easiest: WikiProject Pokemon could have stuff about the Hoenn reboots and maybe some residual coverage of X and Y, WikiProject Film could do some stuff about the new Godzilla movie, all kinds of stuff. WikiQuote could also be melded in fairly easily (notable quotes about the new Hoenn games and from the new Godzilla, to use my previous example). Past that? I'm not so sure... Supernerd11 Firemind ^_^ Pokedex 02:23, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
If it were to work, it would probably be best if individual projects were to define, maybe on the project talk page, a specific "collaboration" regarding one or more of the other entities and specific goals to be accomplished. For instance, I notice that there are a lot of PD reference sources dealing with the Bible that could be proofread onto wikisource, with the information regarding the individual articles used by editors here to create and develop articles on the same topics here. There are probably a lot of old sources like that for all sorts of topics. It might, maybe, if someone has the time to do so, be possible to get projects here lists of articles relevant to their topics in the old Encyclopedia Britannica and other PD reference sources. And I think some of the older, maybe now more or less inactive projects, particularly those relating to cancelled TV shows and broken-up music acts, might be able to get a little nudge of activity if they were to try to assemble some of their content here into book form at either wikibooks or wikiversity. Following up with some of Supernerd's examples, a book about the Godzilla movies, books, etc., including information about the comics, merchandising, etc., might be achievable. I acknowledge that there wouldn't be a lot of reason to try to overextent into too many fields in even the first few years of such efforts. It would probably make more sense to initially publicize and attempt specific individual efforts regarding specific individual objectives, at least for the few years, and draw attention to them. For a lot of even the major topics, honestly, I'm no more optimistic than some of the rest of you, if we don't have interested editors here, but there are at least a few topics where something like this might have a reasonable chance of success. John Carter (talk) 21:55, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
I've never done any proofreading at Wikisource, although I'm pretty good at it in the real world. Can you point me to a short example so I can see how it works? The subject doesn't matter to me, so one of those Bible-related pages would be fine, if you've got one handy. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:51, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
The only thing to really note about proofreading at wikisource is that as far as possible, to a degree, the formatting of the original text, including images, and where possible the exact characters used in the original text, including italicization and all the umlauts and other diacritical marks that might be used there, should be reproduced as closely as possible. That's one of the reasons proofreading EB takes so long, because the older versions used a lot of italicization of foreign words and all the diacritical marks of the original language. So maybe starting there wouldn't be the easiest way to go. And I only mentioned the Biblical stuff because I found so many reference sources on it in the Sheehy guide to reference - most of them aren't even included there yet. The current collaboration of the month over there is an old African travel book about Lake Ngami here, and it is probably as good a place to start as any, although most of it is now to the point of what they call "verification". The pages in the green boxes have already been reviewed by two individuals, or verified - the yellow have been proofread by one person, waiting for a second to catch any mistakes the first might not, fix occasional double spacing, that sort of thing. It's probably as good a place as any to get a basic grasp of the process. Beyond that, the wikisource main page has a link to all the categories of not-yet-proofread and proofread pages by category, although those are frighteningly huge categories. John Carter (talk) 18:09, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the link, John Carter.
I think I did it correctly. If changes are necessary, do you make them and still mark the page as either proofread or verified? WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:09, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

RfC: remove the attention flag from WikiProject banners[edit]

See the discussion here. RockMagnetist (talk) 03:47, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Wikiproject Manual Medicine[edit]

Hi all! There is a growing interest in, and utilization of manual medicine in health care, primarily for neuromusculoskeletal disorders. Manual medicine is practiced by a wide variety of practitioners and has a long history as a therapeutic intervention. The sciences of manual medicine has exploded in the last 20 years, with tons of research and textbooks devoted to the subject [1], [2], [3], [4], and many others. Google Scholar list 2 650 000 hits [5] and over 4200 systematic reviews on PubMed [6]. There is tons of scientific research regarding manual medicine and I'd like to get the ball rolling for a new group to explore this aspect of health care. DVMt (talk) 02:07, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Unless you know a handful of experienced editors who are interested in joining this, it's probably not worth setting up. Nearly all proposals for WikiProjects fail. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:29, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
How many, do you figure? DVMt (talk) 05:00, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
Anecdotally, because I never finished collecting the data, four dedicated editors is good and more is better. I think that Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Women's History is the most successful WikiProject created in the last few years, and they had 18 supporters. Drop by their talk page to see how many of those are still regularly active now. WhatamIdoing (talk) 14:52, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

{{WPRedirect}}[edit]

Template:WPRedirect (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) has been nominated for deletion; this is the project banner for WP:WikiProject Redirect -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 08:06, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Tagging multiple wikiprojects in the same "family"[edit]

I have a dispute with another user who is dual=tagging articles tagged by WikiProject equine with WikiProject Mammals as well. I have always understood that rarely is there a need to double-tag "parent" and "child" wikiprojects. The other user feels differently. See conversation here. If I'm wrong on this, I'll back off, but my understanding is that double-tagging is a colossal waste of time. Please advise. Montanabw(talk) 23:47, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

It is something that some people feel strongly about on both sides of the issue. But yes generally only the more specific WikiProject really needs to be tagged assuming that the larger scoped ones is really large. WP:SPORTS for example only gets tagged on articles where there aren't more specific sports projects. However, I would never edit war over it. Some "Families" just create a single banner with parameters in them indicating they are also part of the more specific group. -DJSasso (talk) 00:23, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
Definitely not worth an edit war although it might be useful to see if the Mammals project banner could incorporate the others. John Carter (talk) 01:35, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
There are lots and lots of mammal projects, cats, dogs, horses... thousands and thousands of articles (3000 in WPEQ alone). Thanks for your answer. Helpful info Montanabw(talk) 21:45, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
@Montanabw: I may regret saying this but I have some experience working on project banners. Give me a listing of projects specifically dealing exclusively with mammals and I'll see what I can do. John Carter (talk) 22:45, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
@John Carter:: Actually, I personally oppose the single banner concept (I don't care for it at WP United States) because I think it complicates project tagging, particularly for people (like me) who are on the short bus when it comes to template syntax (I can do it now, but I've been on wiki 8 years). But is there a way that the WPEQ template could automatically contain an internal link to wikiproject mammals so the cleanup tags for equine articles (or cats, or dogs, or whatever) could appear on their listings as well? I think that was what Plantdrew wants & why he is tagging everything. Montanabw(talk) 18:59, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
It is 100% up to the members of the project. If WikiProject Mammals wants to have it tagged, then it gets tagged. If they don't, then it doesn't. Whether any other project chooses to tag the page, or even whether any other project exists, is irrelevant. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Guide#Article tagging for a fuller explanation. This is also addressed briefly in the /FAQ at the top of this page. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:14, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Actually no; there is a place for overall guidelines as to how projects work in general; And, anyway, I have also posted at WP:Mammals, though it seems a rather inactive project at the moment. Montanabw(talk) 20:25, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
Actually, Montanabw, what I'm telling you is that there already is an official {{guideline}} that addresses this question, and that official guideline directly says that it's up to each WikiProject to decide what they're going to tag. If you want to double-check that the guideline really does say this, then do please click the link I gave you. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:18, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
Same guideline also says over tagging is disruptive, having every article in WP:Chicago also tagged with WP:Illinois and WP:USA is over tagging, since everything in Chicago would also belong in Illinois and in USA...so there is no need for 3 tags, just the most specific one. I have to say I like the idea of coding the lower templates to automatically include all their articles in the higher project thus achieving the same affect of having all 3 tags, without the over tagging on the talk page. -DJSasso (talk) 13:34, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
True, and it gives you a pretty clear idea of what over-tagging means: "WikiProject banners should not be used to duplicate the category system or portals. If an article is only tangentially related to the scope of another WikiProject, then please do not place that project's banner on the article." The warnings against over-tagging are focused on telling non-members not to tag their favorite articles with every possible banner. This does not override the right of any WikiProject to choose to tag and support an article. Leonardo da Vinci is currently tagged by 15 projects, and there's nothing wrong with that—or with adding a 16th project, if yet another group of editors chooses to support that article. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:05, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
If the projects all have very different scopes (ie WP:Middle Ages and WP:Italy). However, in the cases where one projects entire scope is encased in another projects scope, then yes it is most definitely an issue and has caused all kinds of problems in the past. -DJSasso (talk) 14:50, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
It's not an issue once people in "Project A" quit believing that they "own" the articles that they've tagged and thus can force "Project B" to not support the article. There have been a few disputes over the years, but I've yet to see one that didn't involve inappropriate attitudes of ownership. It often works quite well: There is little or nothing in WPPHARM that doesn't also belong WPCHEM, and there are zero resulting disputes. There is little or nothing in WikiProject History of science that isn't within the scope of WPHIST, and there are zero resulting disputes. Everything tagged by WikiProject First aid falls within the scope of a single task force for WPMED, and there are zero resulting disputes. There are dozens of projects whose scope could be entirely subsumed under WikiProject Music, and yet there are zero resulting disputes. Some of these solve it by tagging everything twice, and some of these solve it by tagging everything once, but it is usually solved. The only ongoing problems are from people who think that their project somehow "trumps" the other, or who worry that their small project is being "overwhelmed" by the other.
Tagging is a method for groups of people to keep track of articles that they want to keep track of. It is not a content categorization system, and it should not be abused as a method for telling other people that "your" group of volunteers isn't allowed to track it because it's "mine". To speak bluntly, unless you (or I) are actually one of the volunteers in the project that's tagging the page, then what that group of volunteers tags to create their "collective watchlist" is exactly as much of your business as is the contents of those volunteers' individual watchlists (i.e., "none"). WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:59, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Have asked at Template talk:WPBannerMeta#Question. John Carter (talk) 20:48, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Looks like they have an answer there? Is this what I think it is - a way to add a hidden parameter to the WPEQ template? Montanabw(talk) 22:47, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
  • When WP US came about, I questioned if automatically parenting to other projects would be a better solution. Basically what I wanted was the ability for a project, say WP Nevada to be automatically included in WP US without having to include the banner directly on the talk page. So in this discussion if this had been implemented, the template for WP equine could be modified and the projects articles would be included in WP mammal, or if appropriate in multiple parents. Another possible example if it made sense, Wikipedia:WikiProject Native languages of California could be coded to be part of Wikipedia:WikiProject California, Wikipedia:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America and Wikipedia:WikiProject Languages. That is not something we can do today without tagging for all 4 projects or creating messy sub projects. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:10, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
    • Sounds very logical, can you check the link above that John Carter posted to see if they actually CAN do this? I am a complete syntax/programming/markup not-geek, it's all gibberish to me. Montanabw(talk) 22:47, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
      • On the surface, it sounds like what I was looking for. Like you, complex templates are not my forte so I can't say for sure. I suspect that the code in question would need to go in the lower level project, like Nevada or equine in the examples above. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:04, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

(outdent) - It would be easily possible to add optional "Mammals" parameters to the Cats banner or other banners with the Mammals project appearing in the "drop-down" section if that is what you are asking. Are there specific templates you would want to see it added to? John Carter (talk) 19:23, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Could you "sandbox" what this would look like for {{WikiProject Equine}} somewhere and post the link here? I personally would like to just have Plantdrew not tag WP Mammals on half the horse articles because that is silly. That said, some of the WPEQ articles are biographies of people who are into equestrian sport, so it's not something they all need. If it looks good, I can post the sandbox link at WPEQ talk and see if anyone else objects. Montanabw(talk) 22:26, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Give me a few days tomorrow being a hoiday here and I'll get something up. I think it would probably work best as a variation on existing "task force" parameters, so that the assessor can specifically choose to activate it in specific cases, which here would probably predominantly be articles on species, species history, etc. John Carter (talk) 23:00, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Just noticed this. There seems to be a parallel discussion at Template talk:WPBannerMeta#Question, and perhaps duplication of work - possibly people pulling in different directions (WP:MULTI). Of my two suggestions there, I favour my first (modify the more specific banner to have |mammals=yes) --Redrose64 (talk) 23:19, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Right, it started here and John noted it over there, I think to get the techies looking at it. Either place is fine with me for discussion. Montanabw(talk) 19:52, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
If WikiProject Mammals likes this solution (I would, if I were them), then that's great. If they don't (e.g., if their banner supplies some other feature, or if they disagree with WPEQ's rating system), then you're wasting your time. You cannot force them to use your banner (exactly like WPUS cannot force fifty-odd US-related WikiProjects to use its banner). WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:59, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
No one can keep people from doing silly things if they are hell-bent on ridiculous and redundant behavior; but I am trying to attempt a solution that meets the needs of both projects, or more the point, I am bending over backwards so that one individual who seems bent on inserting the mammals project template into what will be thousands upon thousands of mammal articles already tagged by "child" projects in the tree can do so without creating hopeless clutter. Montanabw(talk) 05:15, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
User:John Carter/Equine and its talk page are set up using the existing model of the Equine banner. If variant importance assessments or additional material were wanted, I could set it up using the Template:WikiProject Christianity model. John Carter (talk) 16:43, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
{{WPB}} and {{WPBS}} were created to deal with the clutter, if that's your problem. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:23, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Naming convention for WikiProject articles[edit]

Hi, there's a discussion regarding the articles in WikiProject Somalia here about whether the categories should be "A-class Somalia articles" or "A-class WikiProject Somalia articles," etc. I'm appreciate any views from here. Thanks! -- Ricky81682 (talk) 22:14, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Tool server mantiance[edit]

See Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Help making a template -- Moxy (talk) 22:31, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

held potx[edit]

need what? help NOW NOW OR CUT YOU means life in life I CAN"T TELL YOU SORRY

Um, is that supposed to be comprehensible? John Carter (talk) 21:18, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Joining wikiprojects[edit]

How do you join wikiprojects? Do you just add the userbox to your user page, or is it more complicated than that? Also how do I fix the formatting of this text? UserJDalek 23:57, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

  1. Just show up and start working. You may add a userbox if you want. You may add your name to the list of participants if you want (most WikiProjects have one somewhere; they're usually seriously out of date). The important thing is to read the WikiProject's talk page and work with the other people there to improve articles. Tell them what you're doing, and ask them what they're doing. If it's quiet, then try to WP:REVIVE it.
  2. Don't put any spaces at the start of the line. I've fixed it for you. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:05, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
@UserJDalek: The location of the signup sheet varies between WikiProjects, sometimes it's not obvious. For example, the main page of WikiProject Doctor Who begins with a "Welcome!" box; in that you will find the text "If you would like to help, please inquire on the talk page, sign up on our list of participants, or just start editing." The second link there takes you to a page containing three lists and some instructions. One of those instructions reads "If you're interested in joining the project, please add your name to the list of participants." and the link in that takes you to the actual list. It may be edited: just put your login ID in alphabetical order, observing the existing pattern, like this. --Redrose64 (talk) 00:21, 17 July 2014 (UTC)