Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dinosaurs

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WikiProject Dinosaurs (Rated Project-class)
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Automatedly adding fossil taxa described in year categories[edit]

I was considering making a bot request to automatically add Category: Fossil taxa described in 2014 (or whatever year) to all of our relevant articles based on the years listed under the genus authority heading of the article infoboxes. Do you support this initiative? Abyssal (talk) 14:16, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Sounds nice. FunkMonk (talk) 14:53, 1 June 2014 (UTC)


Portal:Paleozoic renominated for featured portal status[edit]

Today I renominated the Paleozoic Portal for featured portal status. The last nomination failed because no one, apparently, could be arsed to comment on it. :( Your comments and criticism are welcome at the new nomination page. Abyssal (talk) 03:07, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For Wikiproject Dinosaurs At Wikimania 2014[edit]

Hi all,

My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.

One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.

This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:

• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film

• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.

• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.

• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____

• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost

For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to: Project leaflets Adikhajuria (talk) 16:22, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

We should categorize dinosaur articles by stratigraphic source[edit]

Our current categorization scheme for articles on dinosaur genera (and prehistoric animals generally) is difficult to use and profoundly misleading. Apart from taxonomic categories, we tend to categorize taxa by their continental landmass of origin and their age to the period level. However, this categorization scheme lumps taxa with little in common together in overpopulated categories that are hard to navigate and serve little purpose. Categorizing dinosaurs by continent (example) is not especially useful because the dinosaurs in question may have lived hundreds of miles from each other and be separated by millions of years in time. Also, there are so many taxa in these categories that no one can be expected to read them all, so from a reader's perspective the category is useless. Categorizing taxa by time period (example) has similar problems. Since a period is tens of millions of years long, most of the animals that lived during a given period would not be contemporaries. This makes categorizing them together misleading as many readers probably don't understand the full scale of a geologic period and will come away thinking they lived side-by-side.

I think we can capture the benefits and avoid the pitfalls of the broad geographic and chronological categories by categorizing taxa by the formations in which they are found (eg creating categories like "Morrison Formation", "Yixian Formation", etc). This system would group chronologically contemporary or nearly contemporary taxa with taxa of similar geographic ranges in categories that are manageable in size for the reader. I'm okay with us keeping the geographic and chronological categories in addition to stratigraphic categories, but if we do so I really think they need to be much more specific, like categorizing taxa by country or age instead of continent and period. Abyssal (talk) 18:39, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Sounds good, at least initially as an additional category. Though this would be slightly redundant with "Paleobiota of..." articles. Dinoguy2 (talk) 11:22, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

New photos from Patagonian dinosaurs[edit]

Hi, I want to share here this photos that have been taken for a user from the es:Wiki, Gastón Cuello, who lives in Argentina. These are from the Egidio Feruglio Museum in Trelew, and includes photos from the recently discovered giant titanosaur from Patagonia. So, here is the images of Tyrannotitan:

And the titanosaur fossils:

I hope that some of these will be useful. --Rextron (talk) 20:50, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Nice, I'll add some of it! He has other interesting images too, many of them uncategorised, not sure what this is: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Museo_Egidio_Feruglio_010.JPG FunkMonk (talk) 20:54, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
I added the teeth of Tyrannotitan, these are from the same site of the titanosaur. I'll ask him about the identity of this sauropod.--Rextron (talk) 21:18, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
The mounted skeleton of the sauropod is Epachthosaurus.--Rextron (talk) 23:18, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Awesome book![edit]

Yesterday, I got Paleoart of Julius Csotonyi and this book is AWESOME!!:) There is not much text in this baby, but the pictures are just stellar!! Julius Csotonyi is one of the world greatest paleoartist, whose skill is rivalled by very few. We have some of his images on wikipedia, namely his Linhenykus and Dinosaur Park Formation fauna. If anyone who does not own this would like to see his glory, I can email them some scans of the images, once I get to scanning them. Some articles, such as Guanlong, Spinops, Ornithomimus and Utahraptor, are given an overview in it, and are illustrated amazingly. A recommendation to all dinosaur lovers who just love to see them restored to their fullest, Paleoart of Julius Csotonyi is just irreplaceable. IJReid (talk) 04:18, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

  • "Dinosaur Art" was pretty good. I kind of prefer Raul Martin, I'm not too fond of the photoshopped plant photographs and that stuff... FunkMonk (talk) 19:21, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Commons template for inaccurate models[edit]

I see on commons we have a large number of the inaccurate restorations category filled up by models. I was wondering if someone with more template experience than I could create a new template, or just a new parameter for inaccurate models, that categorizes them in a category for inaccurate models. The new category would be images that are almost impossible to correct, unless the inaccuracies can be cropped out. This would greatly clear up the inaccurate restorations cat, which would make it quicker and easier to find and correct errors in illustrations. IJReid (talk) 23:37, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

I don't think any of the regulars can do it, try to ask the creator of the template. FunkMonk (talk) 23:42, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
Just a question: Inaccurate according to whom? Do restorations change often over time? What about, hypothetically, species for which there is modern debate about "accurate restorations" The template in question: Template:Inaccurate paleoart, would be improved if there was a requirement to justify the claim of inaccuracy (e.g. "Inaccurate as per Smith, 2005, Journal of Paleontology". Otherwise, this could be construed as original research (e.g. some wikipedian thinks this is inaccurate but doesn't explain why.) It might be better just to clearly specify the date the restoration was created or published, and include relevant alternate restorations in any articles (e.g. "restoration1 from 1905." "Restoration 2 from 2005"). --Animalparty-- (talk) 00:06, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
There is already a parameter for outdated/historical restorations.[1] As for citations, yes, some of them already have them, would be nice if they all did. But in some cases with newer restorations, with for example unfeathered maniraptorans or pronated hands, there is really no discussion at this point. And some Commons images are also just so badly drawn as to be unusable. FunkMonk (talk) 00:11, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
I have requested to User:Calliopejen1, the creator, that both a references and a model parameter be added to the template, so we'll see what happens. IJReid (talk) 00:30, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
References can already be cited with links or just text referneces[2], not sure what parameter you would add. For a list of dinosaurs restoration guidelines with sources, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Dinosaurs/Image_review/To_Do_List#Guidelines_for_dinosaur_restorations FunkMonk (talk) 00:58, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
I think that the "reason=" parameter is fine as it is -- references can be added within that parameter. I guess I'm not sure what you mean by a "model" category -- do you mean 3D models? Calliopejen1 (talk) 01:54, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Calliopejen1 By that I mean a category that contains inaccurate dinosaur models, such as images in commons:Category:Dinosaur models, so yes, 3D models. IJReid (talk) 01:59, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Some images[edit]

I've noted that this user has uploaded some interesting dinosaur images in Commons, but I'm afraid that they have copyright... --Rextron (talk) 15:50, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Considering the uploader's talk page, they were likely lifted from [3] and [4], unfortunately. I'll nominate all three for deletion. jonkerztalk 15:58, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, stuff like that is regularly updated, I have a suspicion that it is done by some kids who don't understand copyright. FunkMonk (talk) 21:48, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Auca Mahuevo and Saltasaurus[edit]

I put here this message that I left in the talk page of Saltasaurus:

As far I know, the fossils from Saltasaurus coming from the Allen Formation, that is younger compared with the Anacleto Formation, where is located the Auca Mahuevo site. So, why are related here in the article? really exists remains that match with Saltasaurus in Auca Mahuevo?--Rextron (talk) 03:27, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Datanglong[edit]

Someone just created an article for Datanglong, but it's pretty obviously a machine translation of the NL:WP version. I don't have time to fix it right now, but someone ought to take a look. J. Spencer (talk) 02:35, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I've fixed some words and added the taxobox and references, but still needs work in the grammar. By the way, I couldn't link the Dutch version with Wikidata.--Rextron (talk) 18:45, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
Thank you! A "big roofsauriër" just didn't seem to cut it in WP:EN. J. Spencer (talk) 18:38, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
Currently trying to make the taxobox look better, myself; currently, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Taxonomy/Datanglong is what I've got for the phylogeny. Dromaeosaurus is best dinosaur (talk) 15:55, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal[edit]

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Bringosaurus, no refs, hoax?[edit]

Apologies if I'm jumping the gun here but Bringosaurus seems suspect. The image is appropriated from DinoArt.com and I find no evidence on line, although there is an unnamed specimen with a similar locale described here. --Animalparty-- (talk) 04:57, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Most certainly a hoax. The image is of Coelophysis, which is apparently a relative, but the image itself obviously does not depict Bringosaurus. The author of the page is not a very common editor here (will look into that more). Nowadays, new dinosaur discoveries are given much publicity, but googling Bringosaurus only comes up with three results, at least two of which are wikipedia. It might be that the paper is in the process of being published, but even then I find no evidence of it, and the name Bringosaurus is a nomen nudum until the paper is published. Basically, once I check through the contributions of the author, I will come back here with what I think we should do. IJReid (talk) 14:14, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
Yeh, all the users contributions revolve around "Bringosaurus", and he has only edited two articles. He modified Colalura Sandstone to add the genus, but that article is basically a stockpiling of WP:OR. Personally, I suspect that the user is just creating a page on a non-existent taxon, and stating that he is the author responsible for it. One correction to my above comment, turns out that "Bringosaurus" is actually a coelurosaurian, not even related to Coelophysis, and the image was completely OR. IJReid (talk) 14:23, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
Make it extinct! FunkMonk (talk) 14:56, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Oh, joy, it's almost certainly User:Yewtharaptor by another name. Yewtharaptor is also back. Devote full scrutiny to this editor's additions; most of them are wishful thinking. J. Spencer (talk) 02:28, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Yewtharaptor has also just gifted the world with an incompetent machine translation of an article on the actual dinosaur Panguraptor, which I redirected to the genera list out of shame, and a half-dozen completely unreliable articles on Australian formations which cannot be speedily deleted because they are actual formations. J. Spencer (talk) 02:48, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
What if those Australian formation stubs were simply merged into a list?--Animalparty-- (talk)
It's not a bad idea, but rewriting Panguraptor should probably be the higher priority at the moment, based on what people will be looking for. J. Spencer (talk) 00:31, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
Well, this "Bringosaurus" has been deleted. About Panguraptor, I'm almost sure that he used the Spanish version, which in turn is based in the Dutch article. I suggest not to use the Spanish version since that it have mistakes of translation too.--Rextron (talk) 06:03, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Expert attention[edit]

This is a notice about Category:Dinosaurs articles needing expert attention, which might be of interest to your WikiProject. It will take a while before the category is populated. Iceblock (talk) 23:11, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Steneosaurus obtusidens[edit]

Might be worth a look-through. Newly accepted draft passed a very basic check for copyright violations, etc., but has not seen expert review. --j⚛e deckertalk 05:13, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

There appears to be an issue with the Hot Articles list...[edit]

I'm trying to see if I can rectify this myself, but the Hot Articles section appears to have broken a bit. Dromaeosaurus is best dinosaur (talk) 17:54, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Aaaand repairs complete! The cause was a misplaced template part, by the way. Dromaeosaurus is best dinosaur (talk) 18:04, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Dinosaur Mailing List and Primary sources[edit]

  1. I think the information on Primary references over-emphasizes primary sources and downplays the importance of scholarly secondary sources such as review articles and books that are often necessary to give balance and context and avoid undue weight, especially when primary sources (individual studies) conflict. Secondary sources and tertiary sources are actually preferred per WP:SECONDARY, even if for no other reason than to help decide which primary papers to cite and how often.
  2. I think it is a bit misleading to state on the Project Page that Dinosaur Mailing List archives is a non-primary source: regardless of whether experts or general public contribute, it often contain primary information in the broadest sense (e.g. experts discussing things that are unpublished, offering their own speculation, and directly communicating to each other), even more primary than a published article, and hence may fall under user-generated sources. While the disclaimer about "not always be(ing) complete, current, and/or accurate" is laudable, it might also be stressed that DML should almost never be cited as a reliable source, since there is no peer-review on e-mail exchanges, with nods to WP:PRIMARY. --Animalparty-- (talk) 19:36, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
I think using the DML as source is similar to using blogs written by scientists as source, and that is permitted. Though I must admit, after having been on the list for some years, that much of it is utter garbage, with grown scientists acting like children every now and then. FunkMonk (talk) 20:06, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Permitted is different than encouraged. The fact that a single expert posts something or responds to something can easily be misrepresented, given undue weight, or be simply wrong (surely experts aren't above hasty or incomplete posts), and it seems questionable editorial practice to cite something like "Joe Scientist, 5th email response to "Thread about raptors" posted at 3 am", which could be cherry picked or taken out of context. Note WP:USERG states "Self-published material may sometimes be acceptable" (emphasis added), and this is where common sense and the caveats at WP:PRIMARY kick in. DML should be relatively far down on the list of sources to cite and conventionally-published sources should be preferred, even if they state the exact same thing.--Animalparty-- (talk) 20:42, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Manual of style for dinosaur articles?[edit]

Other projects[5] have a MOS for how to structure their articles, and though the dinosaurs FAs are broadly similar in structure, a guideline could perhaps be nice. For example, a Palaeoecology section should probably be essential for a dinosaur FA, but a popular site like Triceratops doesn't even have one. Any thoughts? FunkMonk (talk) 17:50, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

I kind of like the idea, but I'm too preoccupied with other concerns to help draft one. Also, community activity is so low now for whatever reason that it will probably be difficult to get the input of most users such a manual of style would likely affect. I would be against making one official without a consensus of many contributors, but would be totally supportive if you want to begin a draft. Abyssal (talk) 18:15, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
For a start, we could just compile a list of sections commonly found in dino FAs, and the order they appear in. Though there seems to be quite some inconsistency in that. And yeah, not sure why activity is so low. Well, Dinoguy is probably busy writing books... FunkMonk (talk) 18:17, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Agree it's a good idea - it's been a long time since I took a dino article to FA but I do alot of stuff on bio articles. Funkmonk if you want to start a discussion somewhere I'll chip in but my time is pretty patchy... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 19:56, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Alright, it'll probably just continue here. And something I've thought about for a while, which I'll just write down here to remember it, is the various types of illustrations that would be good to have in an article: A photo of a mounted skeleton/cast. A life restoration. A size comparison. A skeletal diagram. Photos of non-restored fossils. Photos/diagrams of individual skeletal elements. Photo of excavation area. Map showing location of fossil finds. Some of these can be hard to obtain, but for example Nigersaurus contains all of the above, as we were fortunate enough that it had a Plos paper devoted to it. Could be nice with reconstructions of habitat as well, but such are almost impossible to obtain. FunkMonk (talk) 15:59, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
Hey guys, sounds like a good idea. Maybe we should simply copy the heading structure from a good FA into a template article and start from there? (Also I'm thinking paleoecology, paleobiology, paleodescription, paleoreferences, etc. are a bit technical and also redundant.. we know it's paleo because it's prehistoric, why not just say "Ecology" etc., which is more accessible?). It seems like we already have a pretty standard order, with description coming first (containing size/diagrams, basic distinguishing features, major anatomy, and life appearance/soft tissue anatomy) followed by more inference-based stuff like biology and ecology, followed by history of study. Dinoguy2 (talk) 14:36, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Should we also codify style for higher taxon articles? For example, we (somewhere) recently agreed to use two taxobox images of specifiers or close-to-specifiers for node-based clades and basal members for stem-based clades. We would also likely need different variety of sections, but so far higher clades don't really have much of a standardized layout. Dinoguy2 (talk) 14:47, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
I think a standard layout would be good for any articles. At least so we use the same words in the headers, so they are comparable across articles. FunkMonk (talk) 15:02, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

New article on Fosterovenator[edit]

I've started an article on Fosterovenator that could use some help. If anybody wants to, any help would be appreciated. Dromaeosaurus is best dinosaur (talk) 18:03, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

First step would be to add a citation. FunkMonk (talk) 18:18, 16 December 2014 (UTC)