Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dogs

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WikiProject Dogs (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject icon This page is within the scope of WikiProject Dogs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Canidae and Dogs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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Akita (dog), an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article.

Metric or imperial?[edit]

An editor has been changing weights/heights in breed articles to cm/kg. Could I get some opinion from long standing Project members, please? Please see this talk page discussion as the impression I get is the editor feels we should use the FCI standard for references. SagaciousPhil - Chat 13:50, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Oh, that editor has been a pain in the ass at the horse breed articles too. I favor using a convert template so both forms are shown, and the version that comes first should be the version of the majority of the source material, (i.e. imperial if US, metric if European) otherwise we have a potential SYNTH argument. Montanabw(talk) 00:37, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Requested moves[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 09:57, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

– Restore mass moves of articles done without consultation and in defiance of longstanding consensus of page editors. The breed is called Akita, not Akita dog, Billy and not Billy dog, Bolonese, not Bolonese dog, Akbash and not Akbash dog... those changes which besides lacking consensus are just inaccurate. Parenthetical disambiguation was used when natural disambiguation is not possible in ALL dog articles, ( add a disambiguating term in parentheses, after the ambiguous name). This is an attempt to over-simplify. Real-world professional standards should trump false Wikipedia standards when it comes to things like this. WP:Natural disambiguation (cite): If it exists, choose an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title. Do not, however, use obscure or made-up names. That last I think settles it very well. Hafspajen (talk) 11:21, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

  • It was Laika (dog breed) before the move. Hafspajen (talk) 08:17, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
OOps, forgot that one. Added. Hafspajen (talk) 08:21, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Support The only place I've ever seen the construction "Dalmatian dog" is in dog show programs to designate a male competitor, as opposed to a female who would be called "Dalmatian bitch". My understanding is that this nomenclature is common in most breeds. I found these moves very jarring. —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 06:59, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Thanks to Hafspajen for starting this. Overall, I support the moves proposed above; however, before I cast my vote I'd like to propose splitting this into two separate move requests, one for return of Foobar dog articles to Foobar (dog) when "dog" is not part of the natural name of the breed, and so needs to be in parentheses (a disambiguation issue), and the other for the return of Foobar dog articles to Foobar Dog when "Dog" is part of the breed name, and so needs to be capitalised (a capitalisation issue). I think it's unwise to mix the two problems in one request, and could lead to an inconclusive result. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 08:10, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
OK. We take one problem at the time. Hafspajen (talk) 08:19, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
Support as now proposed (including Laika dog → Laika (dog breed), per Elipongo). Constructions such as "Dalmatian dog" and "Billy dog" definitely count as "obscure or made-up names"; while they will inevitably be found to occur somewhere, they are not the usual names of these breeds, and natural disambiguation is thus not appropriate here. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 09:46, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

One of your project's articles has been featured[edit]

Today's Article For Improvement star.svg

Please note that Anubis, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of Today's articles for improvement. The article was scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Today's articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing!
Delivered by Theo's Little Bot at 01:00, 23 June 2014 (UTC) on behalf of the TAFI team

Of interest[edit]

Issue at ANI that may be of interest to project members: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Undiscussed_page_moves_by_SMcCandlish. Montanabw(talk) 18:33, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

War dog urban legends[edit]

I've started a discussion at an editor's talk page that maybe should be moved here. See User talk:Drmies#Sergeant Stubby, a Boston Pit Bull in WWI. Although a number of sources say he was actually a sergeant and was promoted in WWI, this is clearly a recent urban legend. Dougweller (talk) 15:57, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Animals have been given official rank, see Sergeant Reckless, the USMC usually gives a mascot dog an officer. Montanabw(talk) 20:51, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
There's official, and there's official. bobrayner (talk) 22:18, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
True that! Montanabw(talk) 23:25, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

German Shepherd Dog (official breed name)[edit]

Hey, dog project members. I am a five-year Wikipedia editor, but I have never edited Wikipedia dog articles. As part of my ongoing WP education, I was trying to understand the logic behind the recent moves and disambiguations for various dog breed articles, as discussed above and elsewhere. My question regards German Shepherds, or as the breed is officially known, the "German Shepherd Dog," with the "D" in dog capitalized. Is there a reason why the official breed name is not being used as the article title, WP:COMMONNAME, perhaps? Or was this another of the recent moves? That I could understand, but the "GSD" official name is not even recited in the lead, with other British and German recognized names for the breed. The use of "GSD" in the breed's American literature is prevalent, and even internet and magazine articles I have read recently always recite the "GSD" official breed name. I was originally tempted to change the lead based on personal knowledge, and then thought better of it. Does anyone have an answer? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 02:16, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Hah! Welcome to the titling and capitalization wars on wiki, round 10,000! I believe the dogs project recently arrived at a new consensus on titling issues that I personally hesitate to upset, it is a delicate peace but one well worth preserving! ( ;-) ) For background, you may want to skim the "of interest" link I posted above. I don't really edit much in the dog breed area at all, so I don't, um, have a dog in this fight, but on the broader issue of animal articles in general, feel free to post at my talk page for the Cliff's Notes version of the whole cross-species sorry tale if the "of interest" link goes to a tl;dr wiki-drama ;-) Montanabw(talk) 04:19, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

"German Shepherd Dog,"? Not in my dog books. Hafspajen (talk) 04:33, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

  • Hafspajen, here's the link to the AKC's webpage for the breed: German Shepherd Dog. And the German Shepherd Dog Club of America's website: And the Westminster Kennel Club's webpage for the breed: German Shepherd Dog. As I understand it, the English language official breed name is a direct translation of the original breed name, which includes the German word hund. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 04:47, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

OK, ask major dog project English expert. Sagaciousphil‎, see question above. Montanabw, you are funny. Hafspajen (talk) 04:57, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

  • Hafspajen, you had me half convinced that GSD was an American name for the breed based on your reaction, but a quick Google search shows that the national governing bodies for the breed in Britain, Canada, Australia, Ireland, New Zealand and South Africa all refer to the breed by a common name: "German Shepherd Dog," or "GSD" for short. Even if we're going with WP:COMMONNAME for the article title, I think the official breed name deserves a mention in the lead -- "Alsatian" used to be the more common British and Commonwealth breed name, but that usage seems to have fallen by the wayside in the last 40 to 50 years since I was a child. I also note that the existing Wikipedia article refers to the breed consistently as the "German Shepherd Dog" starting in the History section. You may also find the books listed in the Biblography and other references identified in the footnotes instructive as to the GSD usage in the literature.
I'm really not making this up. I was raised by a German Shepherd, who followed me everywhere, slept next to my bed as a child, and actually killed another dog that bit me when I was 3. In fact, I think I may be an honorary member of the GSD breed by adoption. LOL Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 05:13, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
I know, I checked myself. It is about naming conventions... on Wiki. (WP:Common name)? Must have been a great dog. It must have been a great consolation for you to have such an excellent companion. Hafspajen (talk) 05:24, 14 July 2014 (UTC).
The bitterest wars are fought over the most trivial details. Do we have any dog articles with diacritics in their name? If the Kennel Club comprises individuals and member bodies, do we say "The KC is" or "The KC are"? Is the Pomeranian (dog) from Poland or Germany, or Pomerania? Blood has been shed for less. Shabratha (talk) 08:14, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
  • The official breed name is "German Shepherd Dog", hence the commonly used initials GSD (who'd have guessed? Face-wink.svg) and the breed is frequently simply referred to as a "GSD" when being discussed; however, as Shabratha points out above, WP 'editors' would rather waste everyone's time nit picking over trivialities and no matter what you name an article, someone will come along just shortly and change everything anyway (as has happened several times with the GSD article and many other dog breed articles). SagaciousPhil - Chat 16:25, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Thanks for your response, Phil. I usually edit American college sports articles which, as you might imagine, attract more than their share of IP vandals and fanboy editorial comments, as well as some contentious page moves. I'm not interested in upsetting the dog project's COMMONNAME consensus for article titles; I think we can both agree, that in common parlance, most people refer to the breed as the "German Shepherd." That having been said, may I insert the internationally recognized official breed name in the lead and infobox, and impose some measure of consistent usage in the article (varying "German Shepherd" generally, with "German Shepherd Dog" where a discussion of the breed standards or history are relevant), with the project's blessing? It is not my intention to re-open old wounds, and if I am treading where smarter angels should fear to go, please just let me know. I'm also happy to add the article to my watch list to give your folks a little relief on the page patrol. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:10, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
FWIW, I see no problem adding all usual names to the lead and making sure the article is consistent throughout. As for the infobox, ooh! Another battlefield of "what goes in here?" I suggest making the addition to the lead, per WP:BRD, and maybe post on the talk page if anyone objects if you tweak the infobox title. If no objections, then decisions are made by those who show up. Montanabw(talk) 20:04, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
I say infobox is OK. Infobox should show all names, so that shouldn't be a problem. But if the title is per WP:Commoname, we can hardly start spelling it German Shepherd Dog in the whole article. Or german shepherd - like some of the editors want. And I see no problem adding all usual names to the lead either. Hafspajen (talk) 20:09, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I concur that the article title should remain "German Shepherd" per WP:COMMONNAME. I would propose to rewrite the lead as follows:

The German Shepherd (German: Deutscher Schäferhund, German pronunciation: [ˈʃɛːfɐˌhʊnt]) is a breed of large-sized working dog that originated in Germany. The breed's officially recognized name is German Shepherd Dog in the English language, sometimes abbreviated as "GSD", and it also formerly was known as the Alsatian and Alsatian Wolf Dog in Britain.

I think the official breed name should be used at the top of the infobox, with "Alsatian, Alsatian Wolf Dog, Berger Allemand, Deutscher Schäferhund, German Shepherd, Schäferhund" listed as other names, with "GSD" shown as the nickname. If the consensus among project editors is to continue to use "German Shepherd" at the top of the infobox, then "German Shepherd Dog" should be included among the other names.

I would also propose to conform the usage throughout the article to "German Shepherd," except where the context specifically refers to the history or standards of the breed, where I would use "German Shepherd Dog" instead. Currently, the usage is inconsistent.

Reactions? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:30, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

I am fine with it. Hafspajen (talk) 20:46, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
@Sagaciousphil, Shabratha: Does this work for you? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:19, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Oh, by the way, Hafspajen, a "German shepherd" is a citizen of Germany who tends sheep. A "German Shepherd" is a dog. LOL Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:35, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
No worries from me - to be honest it's just nice to see someone working on the GSD article; there was an IP who did a tremendous amount of work on it, sometimes a little bit too in depth perhaps, but s/he then got upset over something (maybe Hafs can recall what ...) and s/he then reverted all of his/her own work making it very clear it was not to be re-instated. Perhaps you might find some of it useful? I think the version to look through was here. Actually, was it about breed name changes that the problems arose, Hafs? SagaciousPhil - Chat 16:59, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
I recall it - it was the pictures he used - S/he removed a lot of good pictures and got upset when I put them back and also questioned the a little bit too in depth perhaps. Just went ballistic and it was no way to dicuss anything anymore. Probably wasn't very used to be questioned, and Wiki is a collective project. Hafspajen (talk) 17:19, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Animal breed disambiguation[edit]

FYI: Pointer to relevant thread elsewhere.

Wikipedia talk:Article titles#Toward a standard for disambiguating titles of articles on domestic animal breeds may be of interest to editors here.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  23:13, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Please read this first. Issue at ANI that may be of interest to project members: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Undiscussed_page_moves_by_SMcCandlish. Hafspajen (talk) 04:28, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

July 2014[edit]

We have just reverted the addition of information about a fatal attack which has just taken place. I appreciate a reference is supplied but earlier a different news source stated the dogs were Bullmastiffs. I have no allegiance to either breed - I simply feel Wikipedia is not for 'rolling news' and it would be far better to wait until matters settle as news sources do not have a good track record in correctly identifying breeds concerned in initial reports in such tragic circumstances. The first news added stated that it was a Bullmastiff. The addition to the Bullmastiff article (which has now been removed) did have a ref stating Bullmastiff but news stations etc seldom identify a breed correctly in initial (and even later) reports. Second states that it is a Cane Corso. I don't think it should be added to neither articles because daily news have nothing to do with the breed, that is one reason, second - I don't think that they are reliable sources about what breed it is. And Cane Corso is not exactly an usual breed. Dogs generally don't kill people, just like that see here, a serious source. One fatality might not affect a whole breed but it cause a weird unbalance added in the article. Hafspajen (talk) 19:35, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

I have just reverted the addition of information in connection to this from the Cane Corso article again [1], which is not included in the reference given. I have also checked the CCAA website Buyer beware section. I'd be grateful if others could also see what they think, please? SagaciousPhil - Chat 15:04, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
Oh, not again. The Buyer beware is a very good site. Actually it should be added to the article - as reference and additional information: responsible breeders think... this -.. that. But I still think this information has nothing to do with the breed article. It may be included on some other article maybe, if anyone has any suggestions? Hafspajen (talk) 17:59, 26 July 2014 (UTC).

Help with merge?[edit]

About 9 months ago Legobot tagged me to participate in an RFC about merging a potential POVFORK. The consensus was merge and the RFC closed. There was some question about what the new canonical name was for it, but it seems that there hasn't been much interest in it since we decided to merge. I don't really know anything about dogs or breeds, so I don't think I'm the right person to perform the merge. There's also some question as to what the new name should be (Miniature American Shepherd or Miniature Australian Shepherd - I weighed in on the talk page on that subject below the RFC, but again that could use some expert guidance). Is anyone here available to perform the merge, or at least get it started? Thanks! 0x0077BE [talk/contrib] 02:09, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Dalmatian (dog) ‎[edit]

There is a question raised about wich image should be used at Talk:Dalmatian (dog). Hafspajen (talk) 08:26, 19 September 2014 (UTC) ‎

Article: Fox - Educational Assignment for Cornell University: Online Communities - Request for Help[edit]

Hello Wikipedians, my name is Sarah and I am part of a group of students who are working to fix the article on foxes. This is for our class Online Communities at Cornell University. We aim to make the C-Class article a B-Class or even better! We are working to expand the fox's characteristic section (adding more anatomy and behavior); revamp the conservation section; and add an "urban foxes" section (foxes in urban settings and their impact on humans/pets). We are new to Wikipedia editing and would love some help, guidance, and/or support! Anything from suggestions on new sections or sections to edit to coding/grammar issues will be greatly appreciated!

If you're curious about our assignment here it is: Online Communities Assignment

Hope to hear from you soon! MSarahKurahashiSofue (talk) 20:27, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

  • Hm, I think that foxes might be an other project, Montanabw who is our fox-expert? Hafspajen (talk) 20:58, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
  • This is as close to the "right" project as they can get, as Foxes are Canidae. That said, WikiProject mammals might also help. Don't know who the fox guru is, but looking at the main contributors on the main articles might give some clues... Montanabw(talk) 21:21, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
  • I chose to ask for help here and in the Wikiproject Mammals because the fox page is under both. Currently, I have no response on the Mammal side! Thank you both for your help though. I will definitely scour the main articles for top contributors! MSarahKurahashiSofue (talk) 03:54, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal[edit]

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)