Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hospitals

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WikiProject Hospitals (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject icon This page is within the scope of WikiProject Hospitals, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hospitals on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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Welcome[edit]

All ideas are welcome for discussion!Ng.j (talk) 19:01, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Proposal?[edit]

Ng.j,

Is there anyone else in this project? Did you properly propose it at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals to see whether anyone else was interested?

The primary purpose of a WikiProject is to have multiple editors work together, so the community avoids creating them for only one editor. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:15, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't see this for a while. I considered going through the proposal process, but that is more of a guideline than a requirement. There are several thousand hospital articles out there, most of them stubs. WP:Med sees them as a very low priority as they have 25,000 to work on. I knew that once this got going more people would join over time. I have noticed that there are a lot of people who will create hospital articles for only one region or country, which helps even if they don't join this project. Ng.j (talk) 19:57, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Hospital[edit]

Should we nominate it for a good article? --Extra 999 (Contact me + contribs) 02:08, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

It won't pass GA at this time. Try addressing the tags currently in the article, and then carefully considering the GA criteria (with, I'm sorry to say, an assumption that the reviewer is likely to require a higher standard than what is actually written there). WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:49, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
I concur that it won't pass GA as is, but I haven't gone in depth to see whether the tag is valid. If we can spruce it up a bit more it would be a good candidate. Would be a first for the project! Ng.j (talk) 04:24, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Old discussion[edit]

You might be interested in this old discussion. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:34, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it was interesting. I am sure there have been a lot of editors that wanted to do something like this, but just never got around to it or didn't think they had the support. There have been a lot of editors who have been expanding hospital articles within other WikiProjects (states, regions) as well. By actually having a WP set up editors will be able to jump right in, rather than feel they have to organize something first. I considered the TF approach, but there are enough articles to justify the WP approach, and WP:Med is swamped with multiple TFs (many dormant) already. Ng.j (talk) 21:02, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Not to say there aren't any opportunities for collaboration with WP:Med, but they have enough to do and from the level of interest in previous edits and tagging, it seems like this is the way to go. Ng.j (talk) 21:05, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I have no firm opinion of project vs. task force, but a good question to ask (in terms of parentage) is: are all of the articles within the scope of this project also within the scope of WPMED? To answer this, you'd need to ask WPMED if they want to include hospitals in their scope. Hospitals were previously included, but this may be because no other project wanted to include them. If WPMED wants to keep hospitals in its scope, making hospitals into a task force seems like the best option. If WPMED does not want to include hospitals, then hospitals should be a parallel project to WPMED (similar to WP:Anatomy). Yes, WPMED has many quiet task forces, but many of these were inactive projects before being merged into the project as task forces. Whether these "working groups" were task forces or projects, I'm sure their activity levels would be the same. From my experience, the contributors at WPMED don't really care what is in the project's scope...everyone will work on whatever they want to work on and few care about which project claims assessment oversight of the article. Ng.j, I've noticed that you have been replacing the WPMED banner with the WP hospitals banner. I'd recommend you leave the WPMED banner in place until this scope issue is determined. --Scott Alter (talk) 22:47, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

The alternative is to have WP:Hospitals as a daughter project, which is how I see it. I look at WP:Dams as an example, where it replaces WP:Engineering tags in all dam articles. It isn't very often that there is overlap, and people have been tagging with WP:Med simply because there was no alternative until now. Ng.j (talk) 23:17, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Just took a look at WP:Anatomy, and though they are a seperate project, they consider themselves to be a daughter of WP:Med as well. Ng.j (talk) 23:25, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Just want to preface my comments by saying I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here, as I think there should be a comprehensive discussion (or at least consideration of all options) before extensive changes are made. Here's a quick summary of WP:Anatomy. The project was started in 2005 distinct from the medicine projects at the time, but never went anywhere, and became inactive. A few years ago, members of WPMED came to the consensus that anatomy articles are not within the scope of WPMED and should only be tagged with WP:Anatomy - even though the Anatomy project was inactive. Currently, the WP:Anatomy project pages are still are inactive, but members of WPMED work on the anatomy articles and templates. I don't think there are any people who contribute to WP:Anatomy and not WPMED. Since WPMED decided not to include anatomy articles, the scopes of WP:Anatomy and WPMED are basically mutually exclusive. WP:NURSE is another project that is similar, but mutually exclusive. I'd say that Anatomy and Nursing aren't daughter projects of WPMED, but rather "similar" or "parallel" projects. WPMED hasn't really "accepted" any child projects, as any child projects that's scope was entirely within the scope of WPMED have been accepted as task forces. If you ask at WT:Anatomy, if anyone responds, I'm not sure they would even say they are a child of WPMED.
Regarding WP:Dams and WP:Engineering, it is not up to WP:Dams to decide to replace WP:Engineering tags. Every project can choose which articles they wants in their scopes. If WP:Engineering has decided to defer all dam articles to WP:Dams (similar to WPMED deferring anatomy articles to WP:Anatomy), that's one thing, and okay. But it's not okay for WP:Dams to remove WP:Engineering tags unless WP:Engineering approves.
People may have just been tagging hospital articles with WPMED because there was no alternative, but hospitals are currently within WPMED's stated scope (as it was stated at WP:MEDA before you changed it a few days ago - without any discussion). What needs to take place now is a discussion at WPMED whether it wants to include hospitals within its scope (in which case a hospitals task force would probably be better), or if it wants to defer all hospital articles to a separate, but parallel WP:Hospitals project. I think it should be all or none, and not some vague "significant medical facilities" only included in WPMED. --Scott Alter (talk) 00:57, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
Scott, I'm with you about the all-or-nothing idea. Shall we have that discussion at WT:MED or at MEDA (where, BTW, I have an open question that I'd like your thoughts on)? Do you want to start it? WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:48, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Notability[edit]

Hospitals are not inherently notable. Nothing is inherently notable. The idea that "all hospitals are notable" has been previously discussed and firmly rejected in the past.

I have replaced this claim with an accurate description of the existing standards for notability. If you do a proper search, I believe that the overwhelming majority of hospitals in developed countries will easily meet the standard, but there is an actual standard, and it's much more source-oriented than the previous description indicated. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:46, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Agree with you, didn't mean to imply that all hospitals were notable. Most are though, and the way you phrased it works much better than my nascent attempt. Ng.j (talk) 04:23, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Pitt County Memorial Hospital[edit]

Could I persuade someone to look at Pitt County Memorial Hospital? It is a level one trauma, academic medical center in North Carolina. I've put some work into it and would love to get someone to look over it. I'm not sure it is GA quality yet, but I think it is close. Any takers? Thanks! PGPirate 20:53, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Added it to my watch list. PCHS-NJROTC (Messages) 22:07, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Articles to assess[edit]

If anyone's home, please look through Category:Unknown-importance medicine articles to find articles about hospitals that have been tagged for WPMED instead of this project. Thanks, WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:44, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I am still in the process of switching over hospital articles from WPMED to WikiProject Hospitals, but am using it as an opportunity to improve each page as well. So it takes a little bit longer, but the hospital articles will be of a higher quality. A few others have been tagging and switching over as well. Ng.j (talk) 21:26, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Wikiproject Essex[edit]

Arms of Essex.svg
Arms of Essex.svg

WikiProject Essex is taking this opportunity to invite WikiProject Hospitals to collaborate with us to improve the quality of articles about hospitals in Essex. If you are interested, please contact us at our talkpage.
Thanks, Thomas888b (Say Hi) 17:45, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Hospitals in Virginia[edit]

Just want to put this on the hospitals project's radar. I just created {{Hospitals in Virginia}} and have transcluded it on hospital articles in Virgnia. While I did a decent job of converting the information on List of hospitals in Virginia into template form, it still needs a bit of work, and hoping that folks here can help improve it. SchuminWeb (Talk) 15:18, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. That seems like a good idea. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:24, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Hospital ships[edit]

Do hospital ships fall under the remit of this Wikiproject? A number of articles are categorised under Category:Hospital ships and subcats thereof. Mjroots (talk) 13:10, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

This is an interesting point, I'm not opposed to it, and a lot of these articles are not worked on too much by WP:SHIPS. I would say yes just off the cuff. Ng.j (talk) 13:56, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
I'd disagree that these articles are not worked on too much by WP:SHIPS, the opposite is probably nearer the mark. Anyways, feel free to tag all categorized articles for this WP if that is appropriate. Mjroots (talk) 18:55, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Forth Valley Royal Hospital[edit]

It has now become Ga quality but dosent have an importance rating. Could someone take a look at it. Warburton1368 (talk) 16:56, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Are Becker's Hospital Review lists worth including at hospital pages, and if so, how much weight is due?[edit]

Becker's Hospital Review seems to have nowhere the level of acceptance as U.S. News and World Report hospital rankings, so I'm of the opinion it's probably not worth including (until other reliable sources give us an independent assessment of its worth). I looked for such an assessment in newspaper archives and google scholar but came up empty. If we do include it I think giving it equal weight with U.S. News and World Report is undue. A google scholar search comparison of "Becker's Hospital Review" hospital rankings vs. "U.S. News & World Report" hospital rankings yields 1 hit from a random website vs. many hits in respected medical journals. Sure, some of those hits in medical journals could criticize U.S. News and World Report, but it appears nearly no one cares about Becker's to cite it. So how can we cite it without being undue? I had a previous discussion with a new editor (User talk:Tgoldst5) about this and I just saw this version of a hospital page, prompting this thread. I thought about posting this at WP:NPOVN but I decided to do it here. Thanks. Jesanj (talk) 23:58, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Posted at WP:MED,[1] please reply there. Jesanj (talk) 15:00, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

List of hospitals in (state) & Hospitals (state) templates standardization[edit]

I have seen many variations of the lists and templates. What fields should be included in the List of hospitals in (state) -- Hospital name, city/town, county, bed size, part of (system), date founded, trauma level, previous name(s), etc.? How should the Hospitals (state) template be set up - Type of hospital, date founded, city/town, county, etc.? Mr.Atoz (talk) 14:47, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

I have updated the List of hospitals in Georgia (U.S. state). Here is my proposed format for Lists of hospitals in (state):
Hospital Name City County Trauma
Center

Designation
Hospital
Beds
COTH
Teaching
Hospital
Year
Founded
Notes Website
Medical Center of Central Georgia Macon Bibb Level I 639 Yes 1895 website
What do you think? Mr.Atoz (talk) 05:59, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:HighBeam[edit]

Wikipedia:HighBeam describes a limited opportunity for Wikipedia editors to have access to HighBeam Research.
Wavelength (talk) 18:04, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Grace Hospital (Seattle)[edit]

This is listed in project hospitals; Shouldn't it be in a film/TV project?--RichardMills65 (talk) 05:17, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Active?[edit]

Forgive my impertinence and this is not intended as an attack or insult but is this project currently active? FiachraByrne (talk) 23:51, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

That's a question that could be applied to almost any Wikiproject. Very few are still active. We really need to start merging up, until activity happens. -- Zanimum (talk) 15:37, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
The main user behind this tiny group seems to have stopped editing in September. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:12, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
Hmm. So should it be merged up or is there any procedure for attracting new editors to orphan projects? FiachraByrne (talk) 02:46, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Inactive_projects seems to be the place to close a project. It's basically self-serve, you can list it, but unless you merge it into another project, it never closes.
This WikiProject's parent is "WikiProject Health and fitness", which is only moderately more active. Really WikiProject National Health Service should be simulatenously merged into Health and fitness too, it's been inactive since 2011. -- Zanimum (talk) 19:59, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
It could also bee merged as a task force under WP:MED. Or it could be left alone, because there seems to be more activity now. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:38, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Bot Stub Category[edit]

I just noticed that the {{WikiProject Hospitals}} doesn't have the |auto= parameter enabled. Could just somebody enable it? In other words, I am busy. The reason is that my bot (i.e. AnkitAWB) tagged a lot of hospital-related articles with that parameter left "on". --Ankit MaityTalkContribs 10:09, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

I "think" I enabled the auto parameter correctly and created the necessary category pages. FiachraByrne (talk) 22:12, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, all right. (And thanks) --Ankit MaityTalkContribs 15:46, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Assessment issues[edit]

I have been adding and/or assessing UK-based hospital articles for the past few days and have come across a couple of issues for discussion. I am not in any way affiliated with Hospitals, or this project, just saw it needed doing as I was looking at WP:WALES.

  1. Some articles contain the word Hospital, but they mean it in the old english sense of almshouse. Since there is no explicit mention of a medical context, I am assuming that these would not be in the scope of the project. See, for example, Christ's Hospital of Abingdon, Donnington Hospital.
  2. Some articles are not actually hospitals but rather other medical terms. I suggest these should not be in the scope of this project. I think the scope of the project should precisely be Hospitals, clinics, and related organizations. For example, what about Vidant Health (no?), Anesthesia cart (no), Early postnatal hospital discharge (no), Franciscan Alliance, Inc. (no?), AHMC (no?)?welsh (talk) 19:52, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
Welcome and congratulations on receiving a non-revocable lifetime membership of this project.
1. I think you're correct; they're former medieval almshouses and should only be included if they subsequently developed into something resembling a hospital. Please remove any and all that you find.
2. Vidant health & Franciscan Alliance Inc are hospital networks and AHMC is a hospital corporation - and I think all such networks and hospital governing bodies, such as the NHS, definitely should be included. An anesthesia cart is a medical device and there's no need to include it or any other medical equipment. Early postnatal hospital discharge specifically addresses the impact of hospital stay periods and therefore I think it is relevant to this (moribund) project. FiachraByrne (talk) 12:29, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Since you have decided I am a lifelong member, I have joined! I have a number of reflections on WP:Hospitals which I will share here. There seems a low level of activity on the Project, but a fair bit of activity on Hospital articles in WP. I muse that worldwide, hospitals are characterised by being really important to their user community, but of almost no interest to anyone else. This rule of thumb seems to work for community facilities (Low importance), Regional (Mid), National (High) and Global (Top) levels, at least for current facilities. Now-closed facilities tend to drift downwards in importance.

I am really only interested in UK hospitals, and note 2 anomalies that I would like to address:

  1. WP:MED was the precursor project and is now acknowledged as a sister project. There are c 200 articles that are anomalies in WP:MED and should be transferred. There will be a minority that should stay in WP:MED if there is a genuine Medical reason to be there.
  2. Wikipedia: WikiProject National Health Service is a defunct UK project that should be removed in favour of WP:Hospitals. It has about 300 articles, many already in both projects.

At a low level I have been implementing some of these changes, and ensuring that articles are tagged in WP:Hospitals. However, now I am exposing this activity for consultation before I proceed further. I will also post at WP:MED.

I have also been standardising the assessment for the non-article Classes such as Project, Disambig, Category, Template to be NA, which is as hinted on the assessment guidance, but was not as implemented. This removes the wood from the trees on genuine articles on the Project assessment stats.welsh (talk) 21:47, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

What kind of articles are you referring to as anomalously part of WP:MED - they're all articles about hospitals I assume? We should probably ask at WP:MED if we're to remove them from that project but I'd wager they'd be happy enough for others to take responsibility for those articles.
I agree that if WP:NHS is dead the project banners should be replaced. Would it make sense to upmerge WP:NHS into this project?
Anyhow, I agree with your proposals. FiachraByrne (talk) 19:40, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Ref WP:MED. It was agreed some time ago that WP:Hospitals would take hospital articles as a sister project to WP:MED. There are about 200 residual articles that should be removed from WP:MED as a tidying. (I will ask there first). Yes an upmerge may be what I am suggesting for WP:NHS, though that sounds rather grand. First I will look at the xxx NHS Trust type articles to convince myself they should be in scope. welsh (talk) 21:29, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Sounds good. FiachraByrne (talk) 22:54, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
WPMED's scope is outlined at WP:MEDA, and cheerfully hands all hospitals over to this group. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:41, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Consumer Reports[edit]

I just saw this post on the WikiProject Medicine talk page and it made me visit this project. Consumer Reports is a United States-based non-profit organization which, among other things, collects information about most hospitals in the United States. One of the things CR is most interested in is safety complaints, but it actually collects all kinds of data from all kinds of reporting processes. The organization also is interested in getting more information about individual hospitals onto Wikipedia as part of its non-profit mission to improve patient safety. There are some barriers to this and I would need to discuss those problems with others, and unfortunately I am gone until March. If anyone is interested in talking with me in a few weeks, please post on my talk page or the talk page of WP:Consumer Reports and I we can have a phone or Skype chat.

Thanks also to everyone who is moving the hospital tags from WikiProject Medicine to this WikiProject - that is a good idea. Blue Rasberry (talk) 01:30, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Welsh has being doing most (all) of the work on the tags. Your proposal sounds very interesting. Would you post back here in March? FiachraByrne (talk) 03:50, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Yes, it is already on my calendar. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:56, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Scope[edit]

I have added a Scope section to the main project page to help define (in fact mainly state the de facto position) for what is in and out of the scope of this project. Comments welcome. The one area that is an explicit expansion of scope, is to include the management organisations/companies that run hospitals. I think this is very relevant and related, and often provides more detail of smaller health facilities in a region. In the UK this would include many articles about the National Health Service structure, and would, in time, pave the way for the defunct WP:NHS to be merged here. welsh (talk) 23:28, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree with including articles on management. Regarding NHS, is there any utility or interest in keeping Wikipedia:WikiProject National Health Service or making it a task force of this project? There are just over 300 articles tagged for that project. Could you conceive of a future project dedicated to the NHS now that this project exists? --Scott Alter (talk) 03:06, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
Currently WP:NHS is inactive. I guess there are maybe 800 articles that should be in scope. All the hospitals are now in WP:Hospitals, and eventually I will add all the NHS Trust articles too (as per the new scope definition). I am unsure whether there is any specific need or desire to maintain WP:NHS or a NHS task-force here. I have no view either way. welsh (talk) 23:55, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
Neither do I. It could also become a WPMED task force, if the NHS seems to be bigger than hospitals and hospital-like things, or we could divide the articles between the two groups. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:43, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Floor plans[edit]

Some useful pictures are found in commons:Category:Hospitals and Asylums of the World. See Sabbatsbergs sjukhus for an example of their use. This book was published in 1893. I've just uploaded the 112 pages, but categorization of each hospital remains. In some cases, the images need to be split and/or cropped. --LA2 (talk) 11:23, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Mount Elizabeth Hospital[edit]

Mount Elizabeth Hospital seems rather short article. Since several prominent people from outside of Singapore have died there (ie. President Zillur Rahman, 2012 Delhi gang rape victim), I assume this is a major medical center of advanced techniques in the region. As such, it should really have a longer article. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 01:02, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Lincoln Hospital (Bronx, New York)[edit]

Lincoln Hospital (Bronx, New York) has been cleaned up a bit. Any suggestions as to improve this article? 2 April 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.205.95.80 (talk) 23:53, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Research Medical Center[edit]

Could use a few more eyes regarding a recent incident in the news. --j⚛e deckertalk 20:09, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Liverpool District Hospital 1918.tif[edit]

file:Liverpool District Hospital 1918.tif has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.250.103 (talk) 23:36, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Liverpool hospital images[edit]

have been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 12:18, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Resources[edit]

In the resources section of the project page one of the resources it mentions for use is Healthgrades.com . How much of the information on healthgrades.com is usable for hospital pages i.e. is awards from hospitalgrades.com allowed ect. please clairify on the project page section resources with this subject. Greenberg2939 (talk) 15:07, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Missing topics page[edit]

I have created Missing topics about Hospitals - Skysmith (talk) 11:03, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Interpretive plaque on southside of Fort Lowell hospital.jpg[edit]

image:Interpretive plaque on southside of Fort Lowell hospital.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.129.3 (talk) 05:26, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Subject specialist help needed at Articles for Creation[edit]

Please take a look at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Instituto Medico San Nicolas (IMSAN). The regular AfC reviewers seem to be unable to decide if it is notable. BTW some of the sources are in Dutch. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:20, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Lack of notability and virtually identical articles.[edit]

If someone has the time, can you go through the articles in Category:Hospitals in South Africa? The vast majority of these are basically a copy and paste with the same content except for the location. They require MoS cleanup for spelling case in the body. The lot could well be speedy deleted since there is no attempt to establish notability unless you can make a case that government funding, which appears to be there only notability, is in fact notable. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:59, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Input needed[edit]

Please comment at Talk:Sichuan University School of Medicine#Rankings section. Many thanks, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:09, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Input might be valuable at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paras Hospitals[edit]

Also, has this project considered setting up a deletion sorting list? Cheers, --j⚛e deckertalk 02:13, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Notable staff or patients[edit]

Should articles about individual hospitals have sections devoted to notable staff or patients? I submit that major medical centers with notable staff ought to have such listings, but sections for notable patients may be problematic especially in the realm of mental health. I submit that notable patients be omitted from hospital articles unless the information is noteworthy as to the particular hospital. (An example might be Walter Reed Army Medical Center which will care for Presidents.) Comments are requested. – S. Rich (talk) 03:02, 18 July 2014 (UTC)