Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel

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WikiProject Israel (Rated Project-class)
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Notice of Dispute resolution discussion[edit]

Languages in censuses and Race and ethnicity in censuses[edit]

Pleas add information about this country to this articles.--Kaiyr (talk) 20:50, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Racist article needs to be fixed immediately[edit]

Illegal immigration from Africa to Israel

This article is racist and evidently biased towards the far-right. For example,

"In recent decades considerable efforts have been made of by many migrant workers from third world countries to immigrate to developed countries in order to improve their wages and quality of life. This is often done in contravention of immigration laws of the destination country, especially when seeking a better life into it, such as infiltration made to the United States from the Mexican border. Developed countries are trying to combat this issue in various ways."

First of all, this ignores the fact that in developed countries, there is a debate on immigration, and that not everyone is necessarily opposed to illegal immigration, such as, for example, many liberals in the United States. Referring to migration as an "issue" to be "combated" is a violation of WP:NPOV.

And I also have an issue with how the word "infiltration" is used? This is the key problem I have with this article. It was evidently written by an Israeli. In civilized non-fascist countries, immigration, particularly when done to seek asylum as the article mentions, is not referred 'infiltration'. What? This is a clear violation of WP:NPOV. They even have a section using that word (

Furthermore, the language used is not of encyclopedic tone. "The situation undercuts the tension between two strong feelings in Israel. Israel was founded in the wake of the Holocaust and has provided refuge to Jews fleeing oppression around the world. On one hand, many Israelis feel Israel has a special responsibility to assist refugees in such dire conditions. (The government, however, maintains that most of the Africans are economic migrants and do not fit into this category.) On the other hand, many Israelis fear the influx could threaten the country's Jewish character". Using terms like "influx", for example, is rather biased.

This is written as more of a partisan blog post rather than an encyclopedic entry. It needs to be fixed immediately. JDiala (talk) 06:31, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

I don't see any problems with much of your complaint. Whilst you are correct that there is a debate over immigration, it is a fact that the immigration referred to is in contravention of the laws of the destination countries. It's also a fact that the government in every country is trying to combat the issue; no country has a laissez-faire approach to the matter.
As for the use of the term "infiltration", it is used because (a) it almost always happens by people crossing the Egypt-Israel border by stealth (i.e. meeting the definition "The act of entering a physical location and/or organization secretly.") and (b) that is how the Israeli media (across the political spectrum) describe it.
However, I do agree that some if it may not necessarily be in the most encyclopedic of terms, although this may well be because it has been written by someone whose first language is not English. Number 57 08:49, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
No, this is incorrect. Mexican immigration from the United States is not legal under US law, yet there is nevertheless a debate over it. Asylum seekers are a special case. "Combating the issue" is not an encyclopedic statement. Combating implies _fighting_ the migration. There is a debate within the US as to whether or not the migration itself should be combated or stopped. Liberals and progressives generally believe the immigration in violation of current US law shouldn't necessarily ought to be combated. There is a debate within the country itself. The wording the author uses is implicitly anti immigrant.
I will alter the article myself. At the very least, I will eliminate usage of the word infiltration other than mentioning in the lead that the Israeli media uses the word, and substantially improve the tone of the article to something less partisan. This is racism. It is far from impartial. And dictionary definitions don't suffice; they fail to take into consideration the connotation and negative stigma certain words have attached to them. You cannot refer to intellectually disabled individuals as "idiots", even if they may meet that word's definition. The English language is riddled with terms that have a straightforward dictionary definition but are nevertheless inherently prejudicial, biased and are not encyclopedic. JDiala (talk) 09:42, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
Well thank you for flagging that up so I can watchlist the article. Comments like this are quite illustrative of the point of view you hold. Number 57 09:54, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

User template wording[edit]

I have designed a template with the intended text:

This user supports a peaceable Israel XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

with the provisional "XX" text reading: "within an approximation of its 1967 borders."

Flag of Israel.svg
This user supports a peaceable Israel within an approximation of its 1967 borders.

I've just had a look at the article on the 1948 Palestine war and noted the evacuated villages.

Are there alternate options of wording to consider that would provide a fair return to a 20th cent. or similar situation?

The sister template of the above is:

Flag of Palestine.svg
This user supports the existence of an independent Palestine at peace with its neighbours.

advice appreciated.
Gregkaye 20:36, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

transliterations and Literal translations[edit]

Just wondered if a standard format is or could be used. What's best?

I have done a bit of stuff like this:
Way of the Patriarchs
Way of the Patriarchs  (Hebrew: דֶּרֶךְ הֲאָבוֹת‎  Derech haʾAhvot  Lit. Way (of) the Fathers), is an ...

Kfar Darom
Kfar Darom (Hebrew: כְּפַר דָּרוֹםlit. Village (in the) South),...

I think the word order translation will be of use for people familiarising themselves with Hebrew

Gregkaye 03:54, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

The standard I used when writing all the kibbutz articles was something along the lines of Sde Boker (Hebrew: שְׂדֵה בּוֹקֵר‎, lit. Herding Field). However, I would avoid translating things for a second time like you did with Way of the Patriarchs, and I would also avoid putting prepositions in brackets. The Kfar Darom translation is also incorrect, as there is no "in the" in the name - a proper translation would be "South Village"; "Village in the South" would be "Kfar BaDarom". Number 57 08:27, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
I would avoid translating ancient names, at least without a ref. In this example, we don't know, maybe it's "a village next to Darom", "village of the sons of Darom" or the like. Unless you do. trespassers william (talk) 10:29, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Help needed to improve language support in CS1 citations[edit]

I am looking for help to guide language support improvements to Citation Style 1 templates. For the time being, these improvements are limited to titles of reference sources, |title= and |trans-title= in CS1 citations that italicize these parameter values.

There have long been complaints that certain languages should not be italicized. A discussion at Module talk:Citation/CS1#non-italic titles regarding titles in Chinese with pinyin transliterations, and English translations just looked wrong. The commonly applied fixes that make the title look right end up damaging the citation's COinS metadata. So, a better way needs to be found.

A possible solution is hacked into Module:Citation/CS1. The hack creates a new parameter, |logogram=|script-title=, which for now is intended to receive titles in script that is not to be italicized. Here is an example of what a citation should not look like:

Wang, Li (1985). Hànyǔ Yǔyīn Shǐ 汉语语音史 [History of Chinese Phonetics] (in Chinese). Beijing: China Social Sciences Press. ISBN 978-7-100-05390-7. 

and the same citation with |logogram=|script-title=:

Wang, Li (1985). Hànyǔ Yǔyīn Shǐ 汉语语音史 [History of Chinese Phonetics] (in Chinese). Beijing: China Social Sciences Press. ISBN 978-7-100-05390-7. 

Another improvement to CS1 language support that we are contemplating is better handling of right-to-left (rtl) languages. This arises from a discussion now in WP:VPT archive 129. Again, the workarounds necessary to make the citation render correctly corrupt the COinS metadata.

Another hack to CS1 that uses |logogram=|script-title= to hold the Hebrew title appears to correctly render that citation's title.

Tova Green (6 May 2010). 12 ימים [13 days] (in Hebrew). Maybe So. Retrieved 15 May 2010.  – current live version of {{cite book}}
Tova Green (6 May 2010). 12 ימים [13 days] (in Hebrew). Maybe So. Retrieved 15 May 2010.  – current sandbox version

I don't know if titles in Hebrew should be italicized; I don't know if titles should be displayed <original language> <romanized transcription> [<English translation>] or in some other order.

Opinions? Comments? Questions? Brickbats?

Main discussions for:

languages that should not be italicized in CS1 citations → Module talk:Citation/CS1#non-italic titles
right-to-left languages → Module talk:Citation/CS1#rtl language support in CS1 titles
or here

Trappist the monk (talk) 18:37, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Opera in Israel; Opera Company of Israel[edit]

Hello. I recently created Marta Domingo's page, and apparently he was a soprano for the Opera Company of Israel for three years before she went on to become a renowned opera director. I am unable to find an article about opera in Israel beyond the Tel Aviv Performing Arts Center, which is a building. I am working on several projects right now and I thought I would mention this here, if anybody else would like to create a page. I am not sure if there is just one company, or more. It looks like the Opera Company of Israel may be notable; it would be wonderful to have a section about its history (who started/patronized it); what operas they performed; who the main directors/sopranos/tenors have been. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 03:31, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

If interested, please see the discussion over at WP Opera here. Easier to keep it all in one place. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:02, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

AfD which may be of some interest[edit]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/After Saturday Comes Sunday (2nd nomination). Dougweller (talk) 13:46, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal[edit]

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)