Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/February 2009

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Japanese era/year redirects

Hi guys; I wonder if I could get WikiProject Japan's take on some redirects I've recently created. As background, the redirect Heisei 202008 was recently nominated at RfD and ended closed as "keep". Based on that, I initiated a discussion of the similar redirect Meiji 31870, which ended up closing as "retarget" to Meiji period, in part because Japan didn't adopt the Gregorian year until Meiji 6 (1873).

Based on the fact that both were kept, and my own opinion that redirects for individual Japanese years are useful, I've since created links for most of the individual years from Meiji 6 on (haven't done Shōwa years yet). However, I originally created them as redirects to the individual Gregorian years (my reading of the original Heisei 20 close); since then (a fairly short period of time), several have been retargeted to the period articles, no doubt due to other editors' reading of the Meiji 3 close.

RfD is no good at finding systematic answers to this sort of question, so I thought I'd ask the most interested parties. My question is: Given that there seems to be agreement that these per-year redirects should (or at least may) exist, what do people think is the better target - the year, the period, or something else? I'm not polling, I just want to hear your opinions. Thanks in advance for your time. Gavia immer (talk) 22:28, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Me, I think the Japanese era year => Gregorian year redirects are a good idea. Granted, it's not likely to be used very often by anything remotely close to a wide number of users, but I'd welcome it. It would definitely save me from having to do all those calculations or else looking up spreadsheets just to find out exactly what year Showa 31 is. TomorrowTime (talk) 23:06, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
I agree. I think we should definitely have the ones for Meiji era and forward as those are the most easily mapped to a specific Gregorian year. Previous years can not always be mapped as easily. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 00:34, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, just to be clear, I'm not personally proposing to create redirects for anything prior to Meiji, because the yearly calendar before then doesn't match the Gregorian one. Since the more recent dates do use the same year, it's pretty useful (in my opinion) for someone reading a text that gives Japanese dates to be able to find our yearly article. Moreover, anyone who uses the era-based year names to search for a specific year should be able to find our article on the era. Gavia immer (talk) 01:23, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Just to clarify here, are we saying that there are articles on Wikipedia that say things like "blah blah blah happened in Heisei 20" without mentioning explicitly in the text that this is the year 2008? I can see that no articles link to Heisei 20 specifically, but are there any that link to any other years? While there is nothing particularly wrong about mentioning Japanese era years in articles, I would have thought that they should always be accompanied by the corresponding Gregorian year in parentheses rather than expecting readers to click on the link to find out what the year is. As such, I see no reason for redirecting Japanese era years to their western counterparts, and in my view, redirecting them to the relevant "XXXX period" article is much more beneficial to readers. --DAJF (talk) 02:05, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
I've never encountered a Wikipedia article that gave a specific Japanese year without the appropriate context of the Gregorian year. I have unfortunately seen many references to general Japanese calendrical periods that didn't give enough context to place them in relation to the corresponding Gregorian years, but that's outside the current discussion. My biggest concern is for people searching enwiki based on some offline source that gives a Japanese year without enough context in that source - we should be able to give them as much context as possible. My secondary concern is that I think the minority of people who would search on individual Japanese years would expect the Gregorian year, and not the period, as a result. As for linking, most of these are very new redirects (I made them myself in the past few days), so I wouldn't expect a large number of links as yet. I don't know if they'll be widely linked in the future or not. Gavia immer (talk) 02:22, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the input, guys; there seems to be more support for Gregorian year redirects among the comments here and at the previous RfDs, so I've decided to go with that for now. Gavia immer (talk) 17:51, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

I just want to say thanks to Gavia immer for undertaking this little project. I didn't get it when we were discussing it here - how often are we really going to need an inline link to Meiji 11 that we can't just write "Meiji 11 (1878)"? But that was before I typed "Showa 4" into the Go/Search box, and was immediately brought to the article for 1929. *That* is useful. Saves the bother of looking through the tables at the bottom of the Showa period article, or finding my bookmark for the NengoCalc website... Thanks again. LordAmeth (talk) 22:53, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
That's the idea, to have Wikipedia do the conversion automatically so nobody has to think about it. Mind you, I haven't got the conversion memorized, either, so it helps me out just as much. Gavia immer (talk) 03:40, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Pre-Meiji nengō conversion

Althought this thread is specifically focused on the Meiji period and later, this may be the most appropriate place to sound a small warning? It appears that there may be an minor error in NengoCalc's data-set for the 11th year of Kan'ei -- in the transition between the 7th month and the 8th month.

Isaac Titsingh's translation of Nipon o daï itsi ran explains that Shogun Tokugawa Iemitsu appeared at Court in Kyoto in 1634 -- in the 7th month of Kan'ei. Richard Ponsonby-Fane's Kyoto: the Old Capital of Japan, 794-1869. reports that the shogun visited ex-Emperor Go-Mizunoo on "August 27."

In that context, NengoCalc's last day of the 7th month of the 11th year of Kan'ei is 22.8.1634 (Tuesday) or 寛永十一年七月二十九日

NengoCalc's first day of the 8th month of the 11th year of Kan'ei is 22.9.1634 (Friday) or 寛永十一年八月一日

I worry that this small mistake may have ramifications in subsequent dates? I did contact the NengoCalc webmaster and the Japanese studies program at the University of Tübingen--Tenmei (talk) 16:08, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

This minor anomaly arises because of an intercalary month in 1634. I have learned that NengoCalc uses one conversion table per year. In the unfortunate event that one of these turns out to be defective only calculations for this very year would be affected. In brief, this is only a small problem. --Tenmei (talk) 19:15, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Milestone Announcements

  • All WikiProjects are invited to have their "milestone-reached" announcements automatically placed onto Wikipedia's announcements page.
  • Milestones could include the number of FAs, GAs or articles covered by the project.
  • No work need be done by the project themselves; they just need to provide some details when they sign up. A bot will do all of the hard work.

I thought this WikiProject might be interested. Ping me with any specific queries or leave them on the page linked to above. Thanks! - Jarry1250 (t, c) 21:58, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I think this is a good idea, and won't really require any extra work. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 00:29, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Chayagai vs Hanamachi

While there is currently an article for hanamachi, chayagai remains a red link. Are the two terms more or less synonymous (i.e should we have one redirect to the other)? Are they different enough to warrant separate articles? I dabble heavily in Edo period entertainment subjects - kabuki, ukiyo-e, etc - but don't actually know that much about the pleasure districts. Is there anyone out there with some expert insights? LordAmeth (talk) 02:17, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Regrets -- didn't even know the word chayagai. Fg2 (talk) 03:22, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Isn't it chayamachi/茶屋町? [1] It looks like synonymous. Oda Mari (talk) 14:42, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps. I've only ever seen chayagai (茶屋街)。例:にし茶屋街, [2]. LordAmeth (talk) 14:47, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Take a look at ja:東山ひがし and ja:主計町. The articles use 茶屋町 as a general term and 茶屋街 seems to be a part of the place name. Oda Mari (talk) 14:58, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Wow. You're right. I stand corrected. LordAmeth (talk) 15:33, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


Yokohama seems a surprisingly ragged article. I've given it a touch-up but this has merely manicured its mediocrity. My problems are (i) that I don't know Yokohama well and -- warning, this is a WP:COAT -- (ii) I'm in deep trouble with a Japanese-specific computer nightmare (please help!). Tama1988 (talk) 11:11, 6 February 2009 (UTC) Computer problem fixed Tama1988 (talk) 08:16, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Having lived in Yokohama for nearly a year last year (2007-2008), I'm fairly familiar with the city. I am not, however, good at improving upon an article that's already half-decent... Somehow I just seem incapable of giving an article that final push, that extra polish, to bring it up to GA or FA status from C- or B-class. If you give me some tips, however, on which points you think are especially bad, what sort of things might be done to improve it, I'll be happy to contribute to the effort. LordAmeth (talk) 12:55, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I think it needs a lot more than a final push. It needs a series of pushes, and I thank you for having already given it one of these pushes.

Perhaps somebody who knows about markup can do something about the disastrous placement of the population table. At least as I view it -- via Firefox on the office's newly buena Vista machine (Thank you Oda Mari!) -- the table plunges well below its intended section into an unrelated section. Tama1988 (talk) 08:16, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Sōya (icebreaker)

Would anyone be able to help adding a few things from here ja:宗谷 (船)? I hope it is OK to ask for this kind of help here (Msrasnw (talk) 17:27, 6 February 2009 (UTC))

It's absolutely okay. Nice work on the article thus far :) LordAmeth (talk) 19:19, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Yoshi Ando

Now the subject of the article is editing it himself. I have tried to wikify, can someone give this a look? Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 06:46, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

I've removed all of the self-promotion resume material and generally tidied it up, but the article remains unsourced and this person seems to have had only very minor parts in Hollywood films or larger roles in very minor films, so I'm not yet convinced that notability criteria have been satisfied. --DAJF (talk) 08:00, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Manga Afd assistance needed


The child Anime/manga project need people that know enough Japanese to look for RS Japanese reviews or other evidence of notability for manga reviewed for deletion WP:MANGA/D. While usual & recurrent reviewers of manga Afd can look for sign of notability in English, French, Germain, Spanish and Italian, Japanese is often a blind spot.
Due to the existence of scanlation, there is a continuous flow of manga reviewed for Afd so the capability to assert manga notability in its most important markets can lessen the repeated outburst of tantrum and drama during those Afd. People willing to hunt for RS reviews or other evidence of notability in languages not covered are also welcome like Chinese or Portuguese.
KrebMarkt 09:27, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Jokanji "throw away temple"

The Jokanji is the shrine/cemetery associated with the Yoshiwara Pleasure district in Edo (old tokyo), where dead prostitutes bodies were dumped. I am looking for sources of more info anyone can point me to, this place is pretty obscure. Do any of you know of similar places associated with the Shimabara in Kyoto and the Shinmachi in Osaka? Is there one associated with the Hot Springs Geisha? I am working on the Oiran article and discovered the Jokanji isn't listed in Wikipedia. And I am almost certain there must be others like it, to mention along with the article I want to write, if no one else gets to it first. (PureLandAngel (talk) 19:14, 12 February 2009 (UTC))

A very interesting topic. Wish I could help you out... But I shall keep an eye out, if I come across any references. LordAmeth (talk) 19:27, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
It's not a shrine but a Buddhist temple. See these. ja:浄閑寺, ja:投げ込み寺 and [3]. Oda Mari (talk) 20:10, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
The Japanese Wikipedia article 投げ込み寺 Oda Mari pointed out does not list any similar temples at Shimabara or Shinmachi; the six are in Tokyo (4), Kawasaki, and Karuizawa.
Wikipedia's way of writing the temple's name would be Jōkan-ji. If you create the article, redirects from Jokanji, Jyokanji (the spelling the temple uses) etc. would help readers get to it. Fg2 (talk) 21:32, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Ikki Kita

Can someone please take a look at this one? I don't know where to begin to start cleanup. Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 01:21, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I took a stab at removing lots of editorial comments, but it's way beyond me. It needs better organization, clearer exposition, simpler writing, and careful attention to content. I inserted some section headings, but they need attention too. (Mostly, they enable section editing.) The ideas and assertions need attribution. Earlier versions of the article can be mined for material I removed; it might provide background or explanation of some of the text, if anyone can straighten out the convoluted style. Fg2 (talk) 11:31, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Copyright question: sound recording in Japan

I asked a question about a sound recording at Commons:Help desk#Copyright question: sound recording in Japan. If anyone has pertinent information, it would be appreciated. Fg2 (talk) 11:27, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Ineko Sata

I just created this article, basically paraphrasing a 1998 obituary of this writer from the Proletarian Literature Movement. Any clean-ups, edits, etc welcome. Would also be interested if people know of Nakano Shigeharu or Taurujiro Kubokawa (the latter is Sata's first husband, but I think the English transliteration may be wrong). There is also an extensive text in Japanese on Sata here. Thanks.--Goldsztajn (talk) 05:24, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Saya Mochizuki

Please take a look and add your two 円, thanks! Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 07:44, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Traditional Kendo

I don't know how to get the right macrons on this, help? Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 02:08, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. The correct macrons are in the 10th grouping in the Latin set of characters below every edit box on the site. The set looks like this: Ā ā Ē ē Ī ī Ō ō Ū ū Ȳ ȳ Ǣ ǣ. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 03:58, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 04:00, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Historical and natural landmarks

Hi. Does anybody know the correct English translation of terms like 国/市史跡, 文化財 and 国/市名勝? Are there others? Thanks urashimataro (talk) 02:28, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I generally translate 文化財 as "Cultural Property", since it is standard to translate 重要文化財 as Important Cultural Property. The others I'm not so sure about. LordAmeth (talk) 03:37, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
I agree with LordAmeth about Important Cultural Property and the shorter term. I've seen lots of translations like "historical site," "historical remains" etc. It would be nice to find a good term, official or not, to use for these. You also asked about others; see for a long list of similar terms (not translated). Fg2 (talk) 03:41, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
See also the National Research Institute for Cultural Properties, Tokyo Fg2 (talk) 04:02, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
Hope these pages in English would help. [4] and [5]. Oda Mari (talk) 04:29, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
Mari, those have good official translations of lots of these terms. They should be very useful for articles on the places and people, including temples, shrines, castles, performing arts and artists, traditional crafts practitioners, municipalities and more. Thank you. Fg2 (talk) 06:44, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm happy that I could help. This is the top page of 文化庁 in English. Look up what you want to know about 文化財-related information from there. Oda Mari (talk) 08:02, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. If I find anything definite on the subject, I will post it here. urashimataro (talk) 04:31, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I've been wanting to create an Important Cultural Property or Important Cultural Properties of Japan article for a looong time now. Unfortunately whenever I try to find information on them I come up short. I have, however, found a list that give the number of properties sorted by prefecture. If anyone is interested in making this article with me, let me know! --TorsodogTalk 22:12, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
It's a great idea to create Important Cultural Properties of Japan, because the National Treasures of Japan page is somewhat lonesome right now. In the same website mentioned by Oda Mari above, but unfortunately only in the Japanese page is the latest stats of the ICPs and NTs[6]. At the bottom of the Japanese page there are links to PDF/XLS format listings as of February 1st 2009, but that's maybe what you found. This book [7] might also have some information related as well. Mantokun (talk) 07:27, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Translation Request

The Finished Restoration

I am nearly finished with a restoration of File:Forces_returning.jpg. I will be nominating it for featured status, and would love to have a translation. I would be willing to share featured credit with the translator. Thanks, — Jake Wartenberg 19:49, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

To clarify, the image is a high resolution Japanese woodcut about the Russo-Japanese War. I think it will make a great candidate. I have included the finished restoration on the left. Cheers, — Jake Wartenberg 20:59, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I can't read the caligraphy well enough to offer a competent translation, but I can tell you that it's supposed to be a humor piece, and the jist of it is, the Tsar is seeing apparitions of his wrecked ships, canons and telegraph lines coming to haunt him. But you probably already knew that :/ TomorrowTime (talk) 09:13, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Is there someone you could recommend who would do a translation? Jake's done a wonderful restoration here, and with a translation it'd be ready for featured picture candidacy. DurovaCharge! 03:36, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
If you expand the image to full size on your screen (you will see only a portion of it on screen) it's big enough to easily read the characters. Unfortunately, my Japanese isn't good enough to do the translation. Cla68 (talk) 05:35, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
I'll see what I can do. I have to first make out everything it's saying (this type of script is hard to read for one out of practice). ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:36, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Thank you so much! — Jake Wartenberg 20:18, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Probably there are mistakes though, the first two sentences look like this.
日本萬歳 百撰百笑
滅茶負<け>の亡霊 骨皮道人
露國の海陸軍は日本軍に一度も勝つ事なく、最初から大敗北と滅茶負で持切て居るのよ 本國へは其(その)大負けを秘密(ないしょ)にしていつも嘘欺(うそ)ばかりを云<っ>て?(や)る處(ところ)から、其(その)滅茶負の道具に...Oda Mari (talk) 06:18, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
The wood block printer is Kobayashi Kiyochika and 骨皮道人/Honekawa Dōjin? is the writer of the words. Oda Mari (talk) 06:28, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
This is interesting. Pen name 痩々亭 骨皮道人 (uncertain: Sōsō-tei Koppi Dōjin or Sōsō-tei Koppi Dōnin) was a satire writer, 1861-1913, personal name 西森武城 (Takeki Nishimori). The picture is a part of a satire series under the name of 日本萬歳 百撰百笑 some other prints from the same series, published by 大黒屋平吉 (大黒屋 Daikokuya is the trademark of 松木平吉 Heikichi Matsuki). "骨皮道人" is a pen name apparently punned on "こっぴどく koppidoku a. terribly". The title of the series is also a pun: the 萬歳 has two meanings. banzai and manzai (be careful the manzai article currently does not explain the "manzai" before what we know as "manzai" in the 21st century.) 百撰百笑 is also a pun on 百戦百勝. 百戦百勝 would mean "100 battles and 100 wins" The 百撰 used has the other meaning "Selection of 100": like used in "Best 100 songs of XYZ". 百笑 is 100 laughs; not a common word but an invention. I think the story is very well summarized by TomorrowTime. The language found in this print is only 100 years old but yet difficult for me born in the 20th century. It uses not only the kanji of those days but also the kana that are not any more commonly used today. It is inevitable that a translation from 100-years-old Japanese involves certain "interpretation" even into modern Japanese. Translating that to English adds up another. I do not know if a translation made by a Wikipedia user without any help from a verifiable external source under such conditions can be a "good" translation to be used in Wikipedia, but if you feel it is, and a summary is really not enough, let me know. Mantokun (talk) 16:59, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Mantokun, you are right. According to this page, 骨皮道人 is Sōsōtei koppi (+jin?). The rest of the caligraphy written by Cursive script (East Asia) is maybe:
使って????、大怪我をした軍艦や大砲や或いハ汽車電信などに???????しく思って本國へ其実際を見せに行って 軍艦「ヘイ私は軍艦で御座います、日本艦隊を打ち破れなく斯様(こん)な姿に成りました 大砲「ヘイ私は大砲で御座います、日本軍の大攻撃を受、斯様(かよう)な生れも附(つか)ぬ不具(かたち)になりまして御座います「ヘイ汽車も「ヘイ電信も何(いづ)れも?帯と撞木杖で見る影もない有様で、半死半生ながらも種々(いろいろ)大負の次第を訴へたので、露國の或る危人(?)も初めて其大敗北を知り「ム、今迄の報告とても、餘(あま)り勝利の方でハ無かったが、併(しか)し夫程(それほど)の大負とハ思ハなかった、とハ云え今となってハ遺憾とも仕方がない、乃公(おれ)も残念だが、貴様達もマア負傷して居て呉れ
I'm sure there are mistakes. Correct me. Thank you. Oda Mari (talk) 20:22, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Mantokun, what we are looking for is a translation that's good enough to use on the image hosting page and for featured picture candidacy. So do please give this your best shot; it doesn't have to be perfect (we're a wiki; someone else can always improve on the translation). Best regards, DurovaCharge! 21:34, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Here's my transcript and translation. In the transcript, I did not always bother putting the old kanji's as used in the print, but that won't change the meaning.
For the translation, the other pun used rathter at the end is a word 「危人」, consisting of two kanji characters meaning "dangerous" + "person". There is not such word, but my best guess is that it is playing a pun on「貴人」, a noble person.
日本萬歳 百撰百笑
滅茶負の亡霊 骨皮道人
露國の海陸軍は、日本軍に一度も勝つ事なく、最初から大敗北と滅茶負で持切て居たのに本國へは其大負けを秘密にしていつも嘘欺ばかりを云ってやる處に、其滅茶負の道具に使われて大怪我をした軍艦や大砲や或いは汽車電信等は、そんな馬鹿馬鹿しく思って本國へ其実際を見せに行った 軍艦「へい私は軍艦で御座います、日本艦隊に撃破られてこんな姿になりました 大砲「へい私は大砲で御座います、日本軍の大攻撃を受けて、こやうな生まれも附かぬ不具となりまして御座ります「へい汽車も「へい電信も、と何れも繃帯に橦木杖で見る影もない有様で、半死半生ながらも種々大負けの次第を訴へたので、露国の或る危人も初めて其大敗北を知り「むむ今迄の報告とても、余り勝利の方では無かったが、しかしそれほどの大負けとは思わなかったとは云え、今となっては遺憾とも仕方が無い、おれも断念(残念)だが、貴様達もまぁ負傷して居てくれ
Nippon banzai - A selection of the best one hundred laughters
Ghosts from the crushing defeat
by Koppi Dōjin
Not a single win had the Russian Navy and Army but full of flat and crushing defeats in the battles against the Japanse Force. Keeping their defeats secret from their home, they constantly conveyed false reports. The apparatus used by the Russians --- the battleship, the cannon, the locomotive and the telegraph --- were so fed up and went home to show the reality. Battleship: "Here I am the battleship. I got destroyed by the Japanese forces, now here's how I look like." Cannon: "Me I am the cannon. I got heavily attacked by the Japanese forces and became so a crippled style like this, so that no one can recognize what I am." "Me too, me too," follows the locomotive and the telegraph. All of them heavily deformed and nearly wiped out, wrapped with bandages or carrying crutches, the apparatus reported every details of the defeats. A Russian noble, learning the total defeat for the first time said: "Hmmm, not even the reports we had so far were very much victorious, but I did not realize we were losing that badly. Well, it's too late anyways; sorry I am, but just be injured guys."
Mantokun (talk) 03:44, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Well, looks like Mantokun beat me to it. Thanks! ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 04:26, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Wonderful! But according to the National Diet Library, the title of the book is Nihon Manzai. Click 全項目を表示. And there's another title 社会幻燈百撰百笑 on this page. See 内容細目. Oda Mari (talk) 04:41, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Great finding, thank you. There's nothing better than the NDL as a reference. Replace Nippon banzai with Nihon manzai for its title, and feel free to correct anything else further of course. Mantokun (talk) 07:18, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Sorry that the links are dead now. This is the serch page of NDL. Oda Mari (talk) 07:29, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Haibutsu kishaku

Hi. I was looking with Google for an image for the article Haibutsu kishaku (Meiji era anti-Buddhist violence) when I found this. The pic is cute and would be good, but I want to make sure it's what I am looking for, because I can't understand what's written on it. Neither can my Japanese companion (or so I am told), but I know for a fact that, when it comes to my Wikipedia work, she isn't nearly as enthusiastic as I would like. Can anybody figure out more or less what the Japanese says? Does it indeed show an episode of the Haibutsu kishaku? Reading the page it's in, it sure seems to. Thanks. urashimataro (talk) 05:33, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Even if the picture is not totally irrelevant to haibutsu kishaku, it is a picture from a book that describes an episode about a movement "against" haibutsu kishaku. It is a scene of people gathering at a temple, impatiently waiting, but NOT raiding on that the temple. They are waiting for a result to come out from the meeting between priests and government authorities discussing at the temple about temple abolishments of that region. The full story can be found on the page where you retrieved this picture [8]. The author of the page mentions in the bottom that his story is compiled through his personal research of available resources. Mantokun (talk) 07:52, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Siege of Edo Castle and Rescue of Mitsunari and Battle of Kusegawa

The articles Siege of Edo Castle and Rescue of Mitsunari appear to describe fictional events, but the author has removed references to their being fiction. The former article has a section, Siege of Edo Castle#Fall of The Tokugawa, which concludes with the sentence "Ieyasu was now really alone and he continued the fight,but Yukimura came there and fought against him,Ieyasu was defeated and captured,and after that he was executed in Ueda Castle." This is not in full accord with scholarship on the Edo period.

If they're valid articles about fiction, there's no real point in deleting them, but they should be clearly described as fiction. Any suggestions? Fg2 (talk) 11:13, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, I'm generally an inclusionist on most things, but I have trouble thinking that Sengoku Musou should be considered notable enough that battles or story elements in its fictionalized version of history ought to be included. Things like Star Wars and Lord of the Rings are major enough elements of our pop culture collective consciousness that battles and events from them are considered notable enough topics, but video game battles? As far as I can tell, these aren't even major/core battles in the game, but rather just events which happen as elements of one storyline (Naoe Kanetsugu's) out of many. If these articles are to be included, that's a slippery slope to including each and every battle from every Sengoku Musou game, every Dynasty Warriors game, and then onto story elements or battles from just about any other video game out there.
In any case, if there were to be consensus to keep them, the articles should definitely start with something to the effect of "In the video game Sengoku Musou 2, the fictional siege of Edo castle takes place between... etc etc." As you point out, it is crucial that they be clearly denoted as fiction, and should also only be included in "fictional battle" categories and the like, nothing historical. LordAmeth (talk) 22:21, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. That's the approach I tried to take. The author has taken different approach. He or she has also created Battle of Kusegawa, removing the "in-universe" template that Sushiya put in the article, and removed "orphan" templates from all three articles. I've put a notice on the user talk page. Don't know how much good it will do. The more eyes are watching this, the better.
Personally, I know little about manga-anime-videogame fiction, so I have no opinion about whether these topics merit encyclopedia articles. If they were to be deleted by community consensus, I would not object. Another strategy is consolidation, e.g. "Battles in Sengoku Musou" or "Battles in Videogames," where they would be, as you say, clearly denoted as fiction. Fg2 (talk) 22:40, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
I left a message on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Koei Warriors Games, asking for comments. Oda Mari (talk) 05:55, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. Maybe being part of the community will convince this editor to accept the description as fiction. Fg2 (talk) 10:11, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Hello. I myself play Samurai Warriors, and I am the founder of Wikipedia:WikiProject Koei Warriors Games. I notified Opopoa with an explanatory message of showing him that no matter what side he plays, that they will win, and that the Warriors games deviate a lot from history (to give characters more of an adventure). I told him that it would probably be best to document the Samurai Warriors battles as a timeline, using a table. (That is, if it must be in Wikipedia at all.) He still has to get back to me, but save the articles just until that timeline article is started with some information filled in. I'd be happy to help. -BlueCaper (talk) 13:38, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

List of Jingū

I first took notice this list when the creator started to link it in "See also" sections of several shrine articles. I don't know what to make of it. It cites no sources and therefore I don't really know how accurate it is and if it is comprehensive at all. Does anyone know much about this? Is this list worth keeping? --TorsodogTalk 19:10, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't know that much about the subject; never really thought there was any overly special significance to the fact that some shrines are called jingū instead of jinja. If it were to be fleshed out at all - if the original author or someone else were to write full paragraphs about the history of Imperial-related shrines and cited sources, it could be great. Otherwise, I don't see much need to keep it. That's my two cents. LordAmeth (talk) 20:28, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Related project: WP:SUMO

I just found WikiProject Sumo, which I hadn't realized existed before. I've added it to the WP:JA navbox and added the navbox to the home page of that project. Just FYI. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 03:08, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

What is the reading of 日向大佐 - Is it Hyūga Daichi or Hyūga Taichi?

What is the reading of 日向大佐 - Is it Hyūga Daichi or Hyūga Taichi? Also what is 川島中佐 (Kawashima-something)? - It's about Shadow Hearts WhisperToMe (talk) 07:49, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Those are army ranks. You can find your answers here: Army ranks of the Japanese Empire during World War II. Mantokun (talk) 08:17, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Mantokun beat me to it, so I'll just offer the readings: they're taisa and chūsa, respectively. TomorrowTime (talk) 08:23, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


I have been doing some work on the Japanese Language Proficiency Test article this month, and I'd appreciate any suggestions on what else to do with it. I'm having some trouble finding further reliable sources, although you wouldn't think it would be too hard to find criticisms of the format in print. Dekimasuよ! 12:48, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Template:WikiProject Japan and featured lists

ATTN any administrators: Is there any chance someone can introduce the Template:FL-Class into the template so it is recognized and displayed properly? Thanks! --TorsodogTalk 14:02, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I've been playing around with a reworked version of the template, which you can see here. You can see the template in action here. Please let me know what you think. I think the new version will allow for more ease of use and modification in the future. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:56, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
  • whistles* Wow, that is VERY nice. I was hoping for a small update, but you've added a LOT of great features. Thanks so much! --TorsodogTalk 20:07, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
I didn't do that much work as most of it is just using an existing framework and figuring out how to include everything we need to include. I would appreciate someone(s) looking through it to make sure it's working the way it should be, and to help create documentation so people know how to use it. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:10, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Along those lines, this is what it uses. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:11, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


Can someone give this a look? Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 02:32, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I worked on a section, but that's all I have time for right now. Should be renamed with the macron, Kuzuryū, as in the opening sentence. Fg2 (talk) 03:08, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
P.S. there's a cascade, Kuzuryū no taki (九頭竜の滝) in Nikkō. Fg2 (talk) 03:11, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Touched the intro and body text a little. Describing the relation of this with mythology, shinto and buddhism is an interesting topic but I don't think I will be able to handle that now cause I don't have any reference handy. Mantokun (talk) 05:16, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Is this a column from a respected publication, or is this a personal blog?

Hi! I'm trying to figure out if this is a personal blog or if it is a review of The Manzai Comics from a respected publication. I can't tell who wrote the article and/or if he/she is a staff member of the website. WhisperToMe (talk) 07:23, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Hello. It is not a personal blog but a news portal site "MYCOM Journal" (マイコミジャーナル maikomi jaanaru?) run by a company called Mainichi Communications [9], a well established company with clear backgrounds. The article you found was written and signed by an author named On Ichii (一井おん ichii on?). We can see that she was writing a weekly review for MYCOM between 2005 and 2007, titled "Lil' nice e-book" (ちょこっとイイブック chokotto ii bukku?), where she wrote about books published in electronic formats. What I cannot tell is what her relationship exactly was with MYCOM (i.e. whether she was a staff writer or a freelance etc.) As of today, she seems not to be writing for MYCOM but there are some other columns by her at least on one different magazine. Mantokun (talk) 11:01, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Tokyo... prefecture?

Recently, a user removed almost all references to Tokyo being a prefecture in the List of tallest buildings and structures in Tokyo. Is this correct (though its implementation would need some cleaning up), or should I revert? --TorsodogTalk 15:25, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Tokyo absolutely is a prefecture, though it's a weird, special sort of "metropolitan prefecture". He may be thinking that "prefecture" is a translation of 県 (ken) rather than that it includes all 47 都道府県 (todōfuken). I don't see any problem with either "Tokyo" or "the prefecture" in these cases, though "the Tokyo" is obviously wrong; I'm going to change all of those to just "Tokyo"; if people decide to, we can change it back to "the prefecture." They're equally correct as far as I'm concerned. LordAmeth (talk) 18:39, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
I agree that it's not necessary to refer to Tokyo as "the prefecture" but neither is it necessary to change that to "Tokyo." And that we should not write "the Tokyo" as this user did. Either reverting or touching up should be ok here. Fg2 (talk) 21:04, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
I reverted back to using both "the prefecture" and "Tokyo". Using only "Tokyo" to refer to the area makes the prose very redundant. --TorsodogTalk 21:20, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Just my two sen - Tokyo absolutely is a prefecture, even if it isn't a ken as such... TomorrowTime (talk) 00:17, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


I'm trying to promote Kumi Koda to a FA article and I want to expand her musical style section. But I can't read Japanese so I would be grateful it if someone could translate this.

【倖田】 トラックを受けてパッと思いついたのが同性愛だったんですよ。私は相手が異性であろうと同性であろうと関係ないと思うタイプなんです。相手が誰であろうと“人を愛する気持ち”に変わりはないでしょ?“学校の先生に恋をしている”とか“友達の彼を好きになってしまった ”・・・なんて禁じられた恋をしている男女も同じ。そこで“好き”という気持ちを殺してしまうのは悲しすぎますよね。愛は人間を豊かにしてくれる宝物だから。大事にして欲しいなって思います。

From what I got from Google translator it's something about love not being straight or gay. ~Moon~日の出 ~Sunrise~ 05:08, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

"Interviewer: What were the thoughts you decided to convey in the lyrics when you first heard the song?
Koda: The first thing that sprung up in my mind when I heard the song was homosexuality. I'm the type of person who thinks that [in a relationship] it doesn't matter what sex the other person is. No matter who they are, it doesn't change the "I love this person" feeling, does it? And it's the same for those who fall into forbidden loves, like falling in love with their school teacher, or starting to like someone who is a good friend. To kill the feeling of attachment for someone is just too cruel. Love is a treasure that enrichens us. I want people to treat it with care."

(I just know that there is a better translation for “好き”という気持ち, but I can't for the world remember it now. Help me out, please.) TomorrowTime (talk) 08:56, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

This too please.

【倖田】 この楽曲は“タブー”を歌っているわけじゃなく、逆に“タブーなんて存在しないんじゃないの?”というメッセージが込められているんですよ。みんなそれぞれ自分のなかに“これはやっちゃいけない”というタブーを持っていると思うんですね。それは、人生を歩み失敗や経験を繰り返すなかで作られてきた自分のルール。そのルールは自分を守るために必要なものであるとは思うんですけど、自分を縛りつけてしまうこともあると思うんですよね。トライしてみなきゃわからないのに、その前からNoサインを出してしまったり、タブーを打ち破り挑戦することで見えてくる新しい世界もきっとあると思うんです。ときには守りに入るのではなく勇気をもって攻めてみてもいいんじゃないか、と。そんな想いがこの曲には込められているんです。

Thanks. ~Moon~日の出 ~Sunrise~ 08:23, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

"Interviewer: The album sounds great, and the title, TABOO, is also powerful. What made you chose a title that refers to "something forbidden", "an area that must not be tresspased"?
Koda: I am not singing about taboos, the message is really "There is no such thing as a taboo". I think everyone has in their minds some limits, some things they think must not be done. These are personal rules that arose from past mistakes and experiences. These rules are necessary to us, but I think they also hold us down. Instead of trying stuff out and experiencing it, we put up a "No" sign, we never try to break the taboos, eventhough I think there is a whole new world to see by doing so. Sometimes we shouldn't retreat into safety, we should have courage and do things. Those are the feelings in the song."

TomorrowTime (talk) 08:56, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Great work provided by TomorrowTime. I couldn't come up with any better translation for 「“好き”という気持ち」, but just wanted to mention“友達の彼を好きになってしまった ” is probably like "starting to like the boyfriend of a friend of yours". (「彼」in this case is the 「彼氏」「カレ」) Hope this adds to the already perfection of TomorrowTime's translation. Mantokun (talk) 15:36, 28 February 2009 (UTC)  
Mantokun is right, that one slipped under my radar. TomorrowTime (talk) 15:49, 28 February 2009 (UTC) (Also, the word that I couldn't think of for「“好き”という気持ち」 was "attraction".)

Thank you for translating. ~Moon~日の出 ~Sunrise~

Coordinators' working group

Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. — Delievered by §hepBot (Disable) on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 05:44, 28 February 2009 (UTC)