Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/July 2009

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WikiProject Japan (Rated Project-class)
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WikiProject Japan (Talk)

Founded
March 18, 2006
(8 years, 5 months and 22 days ago)

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WP:JAWP:JPWP:JPNWP:WPJWP:JapanWP:JAPAN

Project parentage
Countries, Geography

So, it's been changed for a bit now, and no one has said anything, so I assume everyone likes it. What do you think of the new navbox (right)? Any ideas for improvement? I tried to make it less obtrusive due to the large amount of information in it. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 00:10, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Nihonjoe, honestly, I like the picture and the idea of making this Navbox. However, my impression is that it focuses too much on popular culture. I'm not saying writing articles on manga, anime and video games is bad. Take a look at this article Fūrinkazan, for example, which looks like a manga/anime fan site than an encyclopedia. "Cultural echo" section is longer than the explanation of Fūrinkazan. Seriously, yaoi manga doesn't really belong there... Please consider more coverage of things that people living in Japan, like me, actually care. Law, politics, economy / business, education, science and technology, defense and foreign affairs, health care, social issues, and many other topics. Shinkansen Fan (talk) 14:36, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Um...I'm confused by your comments as they seem to have very little (if anything) to do with the navbox to the right. The navbox doesn't link to Fūrinkazan as far as I can tell. You realize the navbox links only to project-related pages which exist, right? It's not meant as a topical navigation box for the mainspace, but a WikiProject Japan navbox. If you are interested in starting up a task force under WikiProject Japan that covers one or more of those topics, I'd be more than happy to link to it. I've often thought that task forces for history, business, education, law and politics, and similar topics would be good, but no one has ever proposed them. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:23, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
I know what you mean, but I feel that Japan-related articles on English Wikipedia tend to focus on popular topics, rather than significant ones. Fūrinkazan and the navbox to the right seem to reflect that tendency. Final Fantasy is a featured article, but Economy of Japan is C-Class. As for the navbox, do we really need subcategories, from Digimon to Zelda, under the Games category? These games are well-known, but I don't think they are very important. Instead, we should set up projects and task forces to cover topics mentioned above and make links to them. That would be more helpful. I'd like to improve coverage of Japanese law and governance first. I wrote articles on a few Japanese laws on Wikisource, such as the Wikisource:Copyright Act of Japan, based on the ongoing translation project by the Ministry of Justice and other ministries. However, it's very time-consuming for me. Any help would be appreciated. Shinkansen Fan (talk) 13:58, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Task forces are created based on interest, and—so far—no one has expressed any interest in creating them. I've made a list below of the task forces I think would be useful, and I encourage anyone interested in participating in a particular task force to sign their name under it. Feel free to sign under more than one. If you think the task force may be too broad, feel free to comment on that as well. Please also keep in mind that many task forces may overlap somewhat with topics covered by other task forces, and this is perfectly fine. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 07:24, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Thank you, Nihonjoe. This is a good start. In the article of Japan, we have geography, environment, infrastructure (energy, transportation, utilities, etc.), foreign affairs and defense, science and technology, health care, and sports as well. Shinkansen Fan (talk) 10:45, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
We already have a project for Trains in Japan, so that's covered, and we have some geography task forces already (prefectures, districts and municipalities, and Tokyo). I have added proposed task forces for sport, infrastructure, geography and environment, and science and technology. I think we will hold off on the foreign affairs, defense, and health care for now. All of them can fall under the law and government task force until/unless they show enough interest to split off. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:23, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Proposed task forces

Any of these which receive at least five three people indicating interest will be created, though those which don't may still be created. If you already work on articles in one of these areas, please sign up. The task forces allow for more focused working with those who are also interested in one of these sub-areas. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 02:18, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

If anyone else is interested in the task forces remaining on the list below, I strongly encourage you to sign your name below. All your signature indicates is that you are interested in participating and interested in working in a specific area. Thanks! ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 08:46, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Permission request request

Could someone do me a huge favor and email RIKEN to see about getting a picture to illustrate the Tadashi Watanabe article? There's a picture of him on their website. Raul654 (talk) 19:12, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Nevermind. Oda Mari helped me get in touch with them. They turned me down :( Raul654 (talk) 04:45, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
The bums. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 07:18, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Sairuki Mourino

The article Sairuki Mourino is odd. Is there anything worth keeping there? Fg2 (talk) 10:15, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Nah, it appears to be a hoax. It's a rewriting of the article of the actual voice actor whose name fits the kanji, namely Jun'ichi Kanemaru, with some data changed. The interwiki links are dead, except for the Japanese one, and that one deals with said Kanemaru, rather than the elusive Mourino. Delete it. TomorrowTime (talk) 18:16, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Deleted. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 08:35, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. Fg2 (talk) 10:13, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Tsuki no Misaki

Excavator has completely wiped out all the former information in this article and refuses to accept any of it into his version. He's removed all the pctures showing locations in this area as well. Please come and participate in a discussion to determine what needs to be done here as I don't think that completely removing all the prior content is a good thing. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 09:23, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Help

Does anyone have any idea what "ポテっとした" means? I've tried searching "ポテっと", "ポテっとな" as well as other similar terms but I can't find out what it means at all. --90.200.52.29 (talk) 21:35, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Where did you see it? bamse (talk) 21:52, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
In this --90.200.52.29 (talk) 23:04, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
Maybe it means potettokun ?! bamse (talk) 23:19, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
You may understand "ポテっと" as a derived form (though I feel a slight difference in nuances) of an onomatopoeia "ぽってり," meaning "chubby," "plump," etc. --Sushiya (talk) 23:53, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Could someone help me with the translation of these two lines?

  • 一説には古代ワールドに降臨した天使型ではないかと言われている。
  • 表情が無い分、何を考えているのか皆目検討もつかず見る人によっては怖さを感じる場合もあるが、性格はいたって温和である。

I think the first one is "One theory questions whether it is an Angel which descended from the Ancient World." but I'm not at all sure. For the second, I think it might be something like "It's face is expressionless, so what it thinks about is entirely up to study, and according to observers it is a quite eerie situation; however, its personality is exceedingly gentle." Again, though, very unsure.Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 23:53, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Please?Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 03:34, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
Whoa. I thought yout answer got answered and never gave it a second glance. Ok, for the first one, I'd say your translation was mainly OK, but I think it's not "from the Ancient World", but rather "to the Ancient World." I suppose what it means is that this entity has been around since ancient times and such. The second sentence is, again, pretty much correct. Maybe I'd go with "and some observers find it eerie" rather than "according to observers it is a quite eerie situation". TomorrowTime (talk) 05:49, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm not too comfortable with the use of "questions" in the first one, which has the implication that it is thought to be untrue. Here, ではないか appears to be given in a more positive sense, so "According to one theory" by itself might be better ("theory" already has the connotation that the veracity is uncertain). Dekimasuよ! 11:48, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
"To the extent that [its] face is expressionless, it's difficult to determine what [it's] thinking, so some people feel afraid...." As TomorrowTime said, 人によって means that it's not everyone who feels that way. Dekimasuよ! 13:50, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Proposed task forces discussion

Please see the discussion above and indicate your interest in participating in any of the proposed new task forces. If you think of one which isn't listed there and should be, feel free to add it. These new task forces may help focus attention on specific areas which need help, and bring in people only interested in a particular aspect of Japan. Thanks! ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 07:26, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

IJA maps posted online

Tohoku University has posted about 6,000 old Imperial Japanese Army topographic maps of east and south Asia on line here. I thought that pre-WWII images in Japan were public domain, but the site states that the University retains the copyrights. The university says, however, that the maps may be used for educational purposes. I'm not sure if these are of use in Wikipedia, but wanted to bring it to the project's attention just in case. Cla68 (talk) 08:32, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I believe that's only photos. If so, then it wouldn't apply to maps. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 08:38, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
You're probably correct. Does anyone know which year demarcates printed documents as public domain in Japan? Cla68 (talk) 08:44, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
I don't know an answer to your question. If the author has been dead for at least 70 years, wouldn't PD-Art apply? bamse (talk) 09:35, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
The author of the maps should be certain organization rather than natural person. Copyright for such works expires in 50 years from the publication under Article 53 of Copyright Act. Copyright for older works may have expired earlier under the old law. --Sushiya (talk) 13:45, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Well then, all of the maps I looked at were published before the end of World War II, so the copyright has definitely expired on them. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:55, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Man's best friend?

I've put a "hoax" template on the article East Asian Sleddog and requested speedy deletion. "East Asian Sled Dogs are an ancient breed of dog, whose origins date to 400 A.D. The East Asian Sled Dog is an aquatic service dog developed originally for towing sleds through rice paddies. Because of their agility, dark coloring, and loyalty, they are often employed in guarding grave sites (kofun) prior to burial ceremonies." I've never seen dogs of any breed guarding kofun prior to burial ceremonies; have you? Fg2 (talk) 10:20, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

The article has been deleted, so if you need a dog to tow a sled through a rice paddy, or plan a burial ceremony at a kofun, you should select a different breed. Fg2 (talk) 03:07, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Translation

What is a good English expression for 禅院額字 and 禅院牌字? I need it for this list. bamse (talk) 13:04, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Junrei

Can you guys look at this? It seems more important than it reads presently. Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 09:04, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Seeking Consensus for mitome in (認印) revisions

Would appreciate comments on revisions proposed here. TransporterMan (talk) 17:24, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Trouble brewing at Hiragana

Please come participate in the discussion at Talk:Hiragana#Table and wording. An anon IP and a new editor are fighting over the presentation of information in the article. Thanks! ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 23:17, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Xenophobia at its best

Recently, many Japanese companies have refused access to their websites outside of Japan. Specifically, I've come across the websites for Minori, Visual Art's, Ohzora, and Comptiq, and I'm sure there's many others I haven't found yet. I was wondering what we should do if we need to cite sources from these websites. Should we attempt to update the refs via proxys to allow access to anyone? Or just try to find the citation somewhere else (which may be nearly impossible in some cases)?-- 02:44, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to remove them entirely, although perhaps there should be a note about the possibility that a user won't be able to access them. Some people do access the English Wikipedia from Japan (especially the articles about Japanese things). And after all, references aren't required to be verifiable over the Internet. If someone can confirm that the cited information exists in the cited location, citing those websites isn't much different from citing an uncommon book. Dekimasuよ! 02:51, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Is there a parameter in any of the citation templates that are for "conditional access"? I don't think so, but maybe we should start adding one in if this thing starts snowballing.-- 02:54, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Ohzora and Comptiq work fine for me, but the others aren't working. You can go through an anonymizer which prevents them from knowing your location and may allow you access. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 03:09, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
In fact, go here to use a proxy service that tricks the site into thinking you're coming from Japan. My Google-fu is intact! ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 03:13, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
If that one doesn't work, try this one. I couldn't get the first one to work for the Visual Arts site, but the second worked like a charm. Both seem to work for the Minori site. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 03:18, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the links, but now I'm perplexed as to why Ohzora and Comptiq still fail to work for me, but if I use the proxies, they work fine.-- 04:36, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Maybe the companies specifically blocked you. ;) ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Well that explains it.-- 06:36, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

As a related sub-topic, I'm not sure "Xenophobia" is a good description judging from what the minori site says. They didn't shut the site because they'd hated foreigners seeing it, but rather because a non-Japanese "won't anyone think of the children" vocal minority managed to get their voice heard in the Japanese parliament. TomorrowTime (talk) 13:54, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Edit request: Template {{Nihongo}}

I've created {{Nihongo core}} a while ago. At {{Nihongo/sandbox}}, you can find a version of {{Nihongo}} that uses the functionality of {{Nihongo core}}. Please also have a look at {{Nihongo/testcases}}, which shows the results of the new template code (there are some minor differences, e.g. the help sign now appears after the comma). If you feel that the template code can be replaced with the code from the sandbox, please edit the page accordingly. {{Nihongo}} is edit protected, so an administrator is needed here. Thank you for your help!  Cs32en  00:43, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I've just seen at the talk page of {{Nihongo}} that there is a discussion about the length of the existing template with regard to the technical transclusion limit of Wikipedia. We would have to check this before making any changes. I'm not familiar enough with the technical aspects of Wikipedia to make a judgment, but maybe someone with expertise in this area can help.  Cs32en  23:54, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
That's more for articles which use the template a lot. One or two (or even ten or twenty) uses are not going to be a problem. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 01:52, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
My opinion on this is that for the majority of uses, flexibility (both with regard of the usage and with regard to future development) is more important than the amount of the transcluded information. However, there seems to be a problem with those pages that actually use the template extensively. In the end, we might need two templates for more or less the same purpose, but with different technical characteristics. Although, as the transcluded text is not voluminous, the problem of sourcing the template code repeatedly could probably be solved by caching. I don't know whether this is currently being done at the Wikipedia technical level or not. Is is the complete template code, or just the actual transcluded text that counts? If it's the latter, the new template is not much "longer" than the existing one, and a few changes, such as those that have been proposed at the template's talk page, could be implemented easily for the new template as well.  Cs32en  02:01, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

見につける and 身につける

Does anyone know what's the difference between 見につける and 身につける is, I'm aware 身につける means "to acquire; learn" but I'm getting confused with 見につける. --Bigboss4 (talk) 05:31, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Not sure about 見につける. Are you sure you've got that one right? The only word close enough I can think of is 見つける... TomorrowTime (talk) 06:55, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
My wife (native Japanese) says 見につける has no meaning - and also suggested 見つける as what was probably meant.VsevolodKrolikov (talk) 07:06, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Northern Territories dispute

Kuril Islands dispute was unilaterally renamed Northern Territories dispute. There is currently a requested move filed to move it back. 76.66.194.17 (talk) 08:06, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

It's been moved back. It shouldn't have been moved without any discussion. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 08:18, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
People have been edit warring over what's shown in green on the map of Japan lately, too. Dekimasuよ! 10:56, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
How fun! :) ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:44, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Kanji reading and translation

From List of Rurouni Kenshin characters there is 神州近衛武士団回天党 (Shinchū Konoe-Bushidan Kaiten Party) - What does the name mean? How is the last character (党, for "Party") read? WhisperToMe (talk) 23:53, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Something like "Land of the Gods World-Changing Imperial Guardians Party". The last kanji is probably said "tō". ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 23:58, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
... I would also imagine that the first compound should be shinshū, not shinchū. CES (talk) 01:14, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Yes, you are correct. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 01:18, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, it's definately Shinshū - It was just a typo I made... WhisperToMe (talk) 01:27, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Request for creation

I think someone knowledgeable about the subject needs to create an article about Sagara Sōzō (ja:相楽総三), leader of the Sekihōtai. In a day or so I'll see what sources I can find about Sozo, but I don't know Japanese so I'll only be able to use English sources. WhisperToMe (talk) 07:50, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

  • The article is now there since I found sources, but expansion is appreciated.

Kan

Where is the article for the "kan," a measurement of weight in the Meiji era? Is a kan the same thing as a kin? I'm confused. WhisperToMe (talk) 02:30, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

See Japanese units of measurement#Mass Fg2 (talk) 02:57, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Merger proposal: Momijigari

An editor has proposed merging Momijigari into Leaf peeping and invited discussion at Talk:Leaf peeping. Fg2 (talk) 23:59, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Small Help

How would you go about translating this - "破壊力満点" I'm aware what 破壊力 and 満点 mean, but I'm unsure of what the overall meaning is. --Bigboss4 (talk) 15:28, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

It might simply mean a full level of destructive force. What's the context? LordAmeth (talk) 18:48, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
It's referring to a missile exploding. --Bigboss4 (talk) 19:05, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
Hmmm. Might have to leave it to others to weigh in... LordAmeth (talk) 19:39, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
How about "[It gets] 100% ('full marks') for destructive power"? Fg2 (talk) 13:52, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

GA Reassessment of Botan Dōrō

I have conducted a reassessment of the above article as part of the GA Sweeps process. I have found some concerns with the referencing which you can see at Talk:Botan Dōrō/GA1. I have placed the article on hold whilst these are fixed. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:39, 28 July 2009 (UTC)