Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/October 2009

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WikiProject Japan (Rated Project-class)
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Yasukuni shrine

Present version of this article was writen the word kami by italic. Certainly, the enshrined people were kami, however they are not called as kami. I think the use of italic is specify the word or express non english word's original pronouncation. I think there are more suitable words. So I propose change kami to more suitable word.

There are some words, deiteies[1] or guardian deities[2] or spirits[3] or souls[4] or heroic souls or heroic sprits. In japanse the enshrined were commonly called as 英霊[5][6] (eirei, literaly means heroic sprits or heroic souls), sometimes also called as 英霊の御霊[7] (eirei no mitama, literaly means departed soul of heroic sprits or departed soul of heroic souls). There is other word 神霊[8](shin rei , literaly means soul of kami or sprits of kami), this word is literary dialect so not common. Please comment.--Bukubku (talk) 13:49, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you. The word kami could be interpreted too broadly See [9] and [10]. IMHO, the main definition is an object of worship and things that are beyond human beings' understanding. But the spirits in Yasukuni are different. The shrine was built for the appreciation and the repose of the souls of the people who sacrificed their lives for the country. There should be a more appropriate word than kami to describe them. Oda Mari (talk) 06:40, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
I think with the Yasukuni literature that I have, it uses deities. However, I need to double check on it. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 22:44, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Recognised content

Are featured pictures added automatically to Wikipedia:JA#Recognized_content if they are in Category:Featured Japan-related pictures ? bamse (talk) 08:09, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't think so, but I could be wrong. I know I manually added a bunch of those already listed. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 18:39, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Joe is correct. They must be added manually. I always update the to-do with new FPC, and as I do that I usually always try to update the recognized content accordingly as well. --TorsodogTalk 18:48, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. I hope I added a picture correctly. What does "When adding a new article or picture to the lists please also add it to the appropriate Portal:Japan archive" (in the commented out source of Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan/Recognized content) mean? bamse (talk) 20:44, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
It means to go ahead and add the picture to the Portal:Japan/Selected picture archive so it shows up as a featured picture on Portal: Japan. Don't worry about it though, I just added it for you! --TorsodogTalk 21:45, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Speaking of the Japan portal, I need to finish going through the anniversary pages and formatting them all the same (and creating the pages that don't yet exist). ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 01:02, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Ya, after I got the portal promoted to featured, I just ran out of gas and gave up on the anniversaries. Then I forgot about them. When I get a little more time I'll try to help you with a few! --TorsodogTalk 05:28, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
I've standardized the formatting through either the beginning or end of March (so it follows the same format as in the generic date articles). I've also done others scattered throughout the year, as well. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 00:52, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

@Torsodog: Thanks for adding the picture to Portal:Japan/Selected picture. Where do I add featured lists? bamse (talk) 07:58, 7 October 2009 (UTC) Also, I was trying to figure out how to add File:Zhou Maoshu Appreciating Lotuses.jpg to selected pictures, but without success. Could you take care of it? bamse (talk) 08:07, 7 October 2009 (UTC) One more question: The featured pictures in "Recognized content" are pictures that are featured on English wikipedia only (not commons or non-English wikipedias). Corrrect? bamse (talk) 08:10, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

It used to be both, but I think we're getting enough that are here that were are using only those which are here. I haven't gone through all of them to see, though. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:52, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
I added both the new picture and article to the Portal for you. As for where we get the pictures from, the Recognized Content list only lists FP from the English Wiki. The Portal, however, displays FPs from the English and Japanese Wikis and the commons. I included these just so we can have a little more variety in the portal! --TorsodogTalk 15:10, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. bamse (talk) 15:14, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Qxz-ad194.png

I've made an ad (about a month ago) which will appear in small ad box at the very top of this page if you reload enough times. So we don't overload the server, here it is for your enjoyment. Nothing fancy, but it does the job. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 00:58, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

I love it! Thank you 日本穣. Oda Mari (talk) 04:28, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
I even included Subaru in it. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:49, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Fg2

I don't personally have any way to verify this, but an anonymous IP posted (diff) this notice to my talk page. If it is true, Fg2 will be sorely missed. He hasn't edited since August 14, so it may be true. The name matches up to his username, too. Did anyone here know him or meet him personally? ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:25, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately I also have no way to verify this news, however I hope that it isn't true... the project will have lost a truly fantastic editor. Again, if true, my heart goes out to his family and friends. --TorsodogTalk 14:45, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Fg2 edited every single day. This silence isn't like him. I am afraid he is gone for good. I didn't know even his name, but I feel like I lost a friend. I HAVE lost a friend. Urashima Tarō (talk) 02:25, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
There is further discussion ongoing about this at the Signpost tipline. Cla68 (talk) 23:50, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
A memorial page has been started. Cla68 (talk) 03:26, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

It has been suggested that an article be worked on collaboratively in his memory. Is anyone here familiar enough with his interests to suggest one? Kaldari (talk) 15:19, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I added the notice of his death to the Commons account and to his Japanese Wikipedia account (both in English) - I also updated the English meta list of deceased Wikipedians, which is located here: meta:Deceased_editors WhisperToMe (talk) 07:55, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Article for deletion

Input requested at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Global warming in Japan. Cla68 (talk) 21:31, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Japanese music videos and staff

What I thought was going to be a quick look with Google has turned into a near-impossible journey of trying to find the directors (or any staff, for that matter) for the music videos of Do As Infinity for use in their discography. I have done some pretty intense searching to only come up with two directors out of 31 videos, and what I was most surprised about was that upon watching the videos, none of the credits are displayed.

I was wondering if anyone knew of a Japanese database of music videos and their staff, or anywhere I could find this information. Just to be clear, I've looked on the band's official website, and on their label's site too (and looked through archives of the former) but still nothing.-- 01:47, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Space Shower TV has a list of most of -if not all of their directors. MS (Talk|Contributions) 02:21, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Oh finally, I was hoping there'd be something like this; thank you! Especially since they look like a reliable source. Though they're even missing some, such as Tangerine Dream, but its a great start.-- 04:12, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Little request

I'm wondering if I can get some assistance for [11], due to its organization that I'm trying to read about and include for the English PSB article. The English one's done for a while now, but I think the PSB's a big one since the Japanese one denotes more divisions aside from the ones at the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department Public Security Bureau. Thanks. Ominae (talk) 05:37, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

There are nine listed in both the English and the Japanese article. Can you be more specific about what you are needing help with? ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 20:15, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

File:Unit 731.jpg

Picture of Manchurian Plague victims in 1910 -1911.jpg

This file is incorrect, the citing web site is not writen as Unit 731. I don't know how to delete the file, please someone delete the file.--Bukubku (talk) 17:45, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

The image is hosted on Commons, so you'd have to go there. Additionally, the description states, "Picture of Manchurian Plague victims in 1910 -1911 that has been historically mislabeled as "Body disposal at Unit 731" A much higher resolution photo, with Russian text stating that these were "Dead plague bodies held in storage awaiting scientific research" can be seen here: http://hahn.zenfolio.com/p933515793/h2e4b7519#h2e4b7519 " ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 03:17, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
I moved the image from the old name to the correct title. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 18:08, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, everyone.--Bukubku (talk) 08:48, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Takeda Nobumori

Can you guys take a look at this? I don't know if he existed or not, but it seems to me that a source is more credible than an editor without a source. Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 05:32, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, he's real, and I added the kanji for his name. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 01:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Joe can you weigh in at the talkpage? This user's very insistent. Thanks and sorry. Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 13:59, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
The Japanese article for Takeda Shingen, the person named as his father, doesn't mention him at all, so it's possible this person is being confused with someone else. The Japanese article lists two people with the name, though not much is mentioned about them. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:38, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Google Books returns two hits, one for each of the two people. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 19:59, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Japan image copyright discussion

Inputs welcome at this discussion. If Wikipedia decides that pre-1950 Japanese images are not public domain in the US, then a lot of Japan-related images will be threatened with deletion. Cla68 (talk) 23:34, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Death of Lindsay Hawker

Would you guys weigh in on the talk page? An editor is trying to claim that this is somehow not murder. Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 13:18, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Testing Japanese characters from my userpage

I have added several names written in Japanese characters, so I am wondering if anyone can translate them into Japanese words. If you are in the mood of doing this, feel free to translate them from my userpage. JMBZ-12 (talk) 18:02, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm a little unclear on your request. For example, you have "Carson Annihilator Street Rod (カーソン・全滅させる・ストリート・ロッド)," and the text says "Kaason (Carson) Zenmetsu saseru (to cause annihilation), sutoriito (street) roddo (rod)." What did you want people to do with this? Your request seems a little bit like asking someone to translate "McDonalds" or "Smith" to Japanese, which would simply be Makudonarudo and Sumisu. Konamaiki (talk) 19:59, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
I can write down japanese characters, but not the words itself, since I have no idea how. The character writings may be written in romaji (that's all I can come up with), or any other japanese character types. Also, the reason why they sgould be translated in Japanese words (from my userpage) because I am currently learning japanese. JMBZ-12 (talk) 21:05, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
On your user page it says "This is for users that can translate Japanese symbols into Japanese words (not English)." So you want somebody to translate them into native Japanese words, e.g. ストーム → あらし; ハンター → かりゅうど? --ざくら 21:37, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
...Or do you want somebody to romanize those words? --ざくら 22:06, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I need someone to romanize those words. I tried installing something that allows me to write down in Japanese then romanizing it, but it did'nt work, so I had to set the language (from my PC) to English. Also, I had to use Google Translate so I can familiarize with japanese characters and started experimenting with them. My english is not pretty well, though. JMBZ-12 (talk) 22:27, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I can't read or successfully machine translate all the Japanese

Can we get an article for Koichi Haraguchi, 68, Japanese chief of staff, Imperial House of Japan, heart attack. [12] ? Thank you! :) Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 08:56, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Done. I translated this page. Some strange text in there (plenipotentiary? That's how Jim Breen translates 特命全権大使, more or less) but I did what I could. Hope that helps. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 14:09, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Memorial effort

As many of you might know from having read the most recent Wikipedia Signpost, User:Fg2, a regular and valuable contributor to content relating to Japan, has recently died. There is an effort to comparatively quickly improve the Mount Fuji article to FA status, and to, on completion, add a plaque in his honor to the talk page. Anyone who would like to help us in this effort is welcome to do so. Thank you for your attention. John Carter (talk) 14:05, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Yushukan sign, Yasukuni Shrine

The file seems illegal. Yushukan museum bans visitors to photograph at the exhibition hall except for entrance hall.[13] The file doesn't describe Yasukuni shrine's permission. Besides, the sign text's copyright seems not expired. This file infringes Copyright. Currently, the file is on Yasukuni Shrine and Controversies surrounding Yasukuni Shrine. Please comment.--Bukubku (talk) 14:19, 20 October 2009 (UTC)--Bukubku (talk) 03:34, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, a picture of copyrighted text on a sign probably doesn't qualify as an independent creative work which could receive its own copyright, or even as fair use of the text. So at first glance it looks like a copyvio to me.
However, the shrine's ban on photography is a private contractual issue between the shrine and the cameraman. If a cameraman takes a photograph of the shrine, the cameraman owns the copyright, not the shrine. The shrine can eject the cameraman and and sue him for violating their rules, but they don't own his creative work just because it was created in their building. cab (talk) 03:47, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Certainly, the cameraman owns copyright of the photography. The photograhy is his work.
However, the text on the sign is not his work, Yushukan owns the text's copyright. All I know, uploading of photograhy or movie files from books or theaters are not accepted without pamission. Yushukan get fees from visitors and shows their showpieces including texts on the sign. If this file is accepted, what become piracy?--Bukubku (talk) 09:27, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Quoting one paragraph as an illustration easily qualifies as Fair use; if you do a Google search, you'll find plenty of other reliable sources (NY Times, FEER, CFR, Seoul Times, etc) quoting the very same text in part or in full. Jpatokal (talk) 10:04, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Maybe. But Commons doesn't accept unfree materials, period, regardless of any fair use claim. If we want the text, we should quote it in the articles in question and cite it to one of those reliable sources. If the photo of the sign is really necessary in addition to the text, it should be uploaded locally on enwiki and a fair use justification given. cab (talk) 10:19, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
To be equitable here, what this photo is lacking is proof of the shrine's permission. The site does not say that all photography is banned–it says that permission is required: [14]. Dekimasuよ! 11:56, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Here is the English page. Oda Mari (talk) 15:00, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
I concur with cab. Whatever the museum's photography policy may or may not be, it is not germane to copyright. This image is a derivative work; as such, the copyright of the work being photographed (the prose) needs to be considered. The Commons cannot host any non-free media (save certain Wikimedia Foundation logos). Эlcobbola talk 21:02, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Wow, that was deleted ridiculously fast. It didn't even give me a chance to upload it to the en.wiki for fair-use. Anyway I can still do that? --TorsodogTalk 12:12, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Another translation request

Hey guys! You were so helpful with my last translation request on a Torajiro Kasai image I was working up for FPC, could you help me out again? Any idea what the text in this image translates out as? Thanks! Staxringold talkcontribs 16:37, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

  • Top center text:
  • Right border text:
  • Left border text:
  • Bottom left small text:
Do you need a full translation or just the general idea? The right border is the "roster" of Japanese ships, and the left border is the "roster" of Russian ships. The bottom left has the printing information, and the top text is roughly equivalent to the English at the bottom. Dekimasuよ! 08:24, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
  • The more exact the better, but thanks for that info (largely confirms what I figured). Staxringold talkcontribs 08:30, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
The Russian ships are Retvizan, Tsarevich, Peresvyet, Oslyabya, Pobyeda, Poltava, Petropavlovsk, Sevastopol, Gromoboi, Rossiya, Rurik, Bayan, Domitori, and Donskoi. Oda Mari (talk) 07:10, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Naming of Japanese government entities - inconsistent with WP naming policy?

A few days ago I was using SPECIAL:RANDOM and came upon one of the articles about a district in Hokkaidō. I noticed that it was fully disambiguated as Katō District, Hokkaidō. This more precise than necessary name caused me to wonder whether there existed another Katō District somewhere, so I checked. Not only was there no other such district, there was no other article named Katō District (at the time it was a red link, like Okushiri District is now). This is a typical problem with categories of names that are "predisambiguated". What happens is that they get created at their predisambiguated name, and the most common name of the topic is neglected. The neglect can mean a lack of anything at the most common name, or a lack of appropriate dab page reference or hat link. I then discovered that this condition applied to apparently all members of Category:Districts_in_Hokkaidō. This is problematic for two reasons:

  1. In principle, naming articles like this is inconsistent with Wikipedia naming policy, guidelines and conventions, in particular use the name most commonly used to refer to the topic, be only as precise as necessary.
  2. Pragmatically, locating an article at a disambiguated name implies that there is a conflict at the common name, but in these cases there is not. The common names are neglected.

I understand the desire to have apparent consistency in naming for a given group of articles, but when doing so contradicts fundamental Wikipedia principles, and creates practical problems, this is not acceptable.

I started correcting the articles in Category:Districts_in_Hokkaidō, but someone has reverted the corrections and left a note on my talk page indicating that this is part of a "deliberate naming scheme used for all articles about Japanese governmental entities.". Is the "deliberate naming scheme used for all articles about Japanese government entities" inconsistent with WP naming policy? I'm afraid to look. At any rate, the topics listed under Category:Districts_in_Hokkaidō need to be fixed. --Born2cycle 21:21, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

It's done that way in order to be consistent. If there are no other entities with a similar name, though, I agree it's best to use the shortest title and have a redirect from the longer title so people can still consistently find the articles. Also, please be sure to sign your username, not just the date and time. You can do so with using ~~~~. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 22:07, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Sorry to be a dick, but I find it amusing that Nihonjoe didn't sign his name... — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 22:16, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
I was just giving an example. ;p ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 23:30, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
At least as amusing is that it apparently did not occur that I typed three instead of four tildes by accident.

Anyway, redirecting from the longer name to the shorter name is fine - but each article should be at the shorter name. Titles are supposed to be concise. --Born2cycle (talk) 22:26, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

That's what I wrote. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 23:29, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Should the naming of cities also be changed from the present "Name, Prefecture" scheme to just "Name" if it is not ambiguos or should it be done only for districts? bamse (talk) 07:17, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it should be done at all. There hasn't been any Wikipedia-wide consensus on this sort of thing despite lots of effort, so to a certain extent the decisions have been made by individual WikiProjects. Cities and towns in the United States almost all are given as "City, State" even when not strictly ambiguous. In previous discussions here only a very small number of designated cities were granted plain titles, which is consistent with that setup in the US. However, the redlinks associated with the plain titles definitely need to be changed into redirects. Dekimasuよ! 08:29, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

"Toaru" versus "To Aru"

I have started a talk section to discuss which makes sense, "toaru" or "to aru," over at Talk:To Aru Majutsu no Index#Requested move. Please stop by if interested. —Tokek (talk) 11:48, 26 October 2009 (UTC)