Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Metal

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Wrong credits for the song "I Want to Fuck You to Death" by the band Huntress on the album Starbound Beast[edit]

Hi,

In the booklet of the album the lyrics are credited to Lemmy Kilmister but on the page of the album (Starbound Beast) all songs are to the band (except for the last one which is a cover). Also, during their performance of August 11th in Montréal, Québec, Canada, the signer, Jill Janus, stated that she asked her friend Lemmy Kilmister to write them a song and "I Want to Fuck You to Death" is the result.

Capricorns[edit]

I'm interested in creating a page on the former prog-metal-ish band Capricorns. I think they're awesome and fans would benefit from knowing about them. Is this feasible or are they too obscure? http://www.last.fm/music/Capricorns Pariah (talk) 22:26, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

I did a quick Google search for the band, and most of what I could find wasn't from reliable sources. This was probably the most reliable thing I could find: this Allmusic review of an album. If you can find enough offline sources, or other online mentions that for some reason don't show up on Google, there might be enough to create an article. Currently it's not looking all that good though. You might try creating your proposed article in your userspace (for example, at User:Pariah24/Capricorns), and then submitting it to WP:Articles for creation. They'll be able to tell you if you have used enough reliable sources, if the article has enough content, and if it passes WP:GNG. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 22:41, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Need opinions on the crossover thrash page.[edit]

A user has been deleting several bands from the crossover thrash page. His only reason for doing so is that "he was there" and he only requires sources for bands that he personally doesn't consider to be crossover. Apart from one of the bands I tried restoring (Lawnmower Deth, who are generally considered as crossover on a bunch of sites, but I couldn't find any "reliable" sources for them), all the other bands have been referred to as crossover on reliable sites like Allmusic and Blabbermouth. Despite adding sources, the user continues to delete the bands claiming that the sources are pushing my "POV" and has no interest in discussing it on the talk page. I would like someone to step in here. I'd particularly like someone to confirm whether my sources for Hellbastard and Dead horse are good enough. Thanks SonOfPlisskin (talk) 00:41, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

No actually I told you on my talk page "I was there". I told you they have no reliable sources as as per their wiki articles didn't list themselves as "crossover thrash" . I also went to every band in the list over about 3 Hours . also the one band you said has a source the source is their Own Website which is Not a reliable source . Then what you/this user did was look up sources to back his/her point of view add it to the article and then type that "its sourced" . For his / her own POV . Such as one site that quotes band camp another unreliable "source" . I removed many bands in a mass clean-up to make the list pure . "punk Rock" bands aren't crossover thrash and "thrash metal" bands aren't crossover thrash . Dead Horse and hell bastard are not Crossover Thrash . This person should never lie being everything is there as it was . Able to be accessed and read . A reader deserves to use the article and any article as a knowledge tool . It should be pure and honest . 68.39.152.45 (talk) 05:40, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

What POV? All those bands are generally considered crossover and I found sources to back that up, because you were deleting them. Again, you mention the bandcamp thing which isn't true. They linked to bandcamp, but there's no quote from it. And there was another source which you seem to conveniently ignore. Even ANUS considers deadhorse to be crossover and they're just as anal retentive (pun intended) as you about the whole "thrash/thrash metal" thing. Not all thrash metal bands are crossover, but most crossover bands are thrash metal (again, crossover = thrash metal + hardcore). Carnivore is also thrash metal. D.R.I. were thrash metal starting from Crossover (they were hardcore before that). Suicidal Tendencies were thrash metal for a while after Join the Army (also hardcore before that, but with a few metal influences even early on). Nuclear Assault shouldn't even be considered crossover, when they're straight up thrash metal with a few punky tendencies. SonOfPlisskin (talk) 11:48, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
It would be best if each band on that list was referenced in that list (even if referenced above, for exactly this situation). While I'm not going to delve into each specific band or source, sources like Allmusic and Blabbermouth, along with other sources listed at WP:ALBUM/SOURCES (while this is not an album article, all the sources listed there pass WP:RS) or other reliable sources should be good. Bandcamp, Last.fm, Metal-Archives, etc are unreliable, and a band's own website is at best questionable, and probably should not be used either. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 19:11, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
All the bands I'm looking to add have reliable sources backing them up. I'll get rid of the SputnikMusic bios. They're not taken from the Bandcamp pages like the IP claims, but the Hirax one looks similar to the Wikipedia article (and it's hard to tell who copied whom, though the Wiki article had a similar opening paragraph since 2005.) I'll add Hellbastard and Dead Horse back along with the sources, and try to find reliable sources for the other bands on the list. SonOfPlisskin (talk) 21:45, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

For instance what this user above is doing is searching things to back up their POV. While there are Just as many that contradict what they are finding as sources , in 30 second search heres one, Hell Bastard from Death Metal .org http://www.deathmetal.org/news/sadistic-metal-reviews-01-12-14/attachment/hellbastard-_-heading-for-internal-darkness/ I feel this person may work for earache or metal blade records as most of the bands he pushes have something to do with one of those labels or both 68.39.152.45 (talk) 21:50, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

hell hammer is a crust band as per this wiki, with sources , without Anyones POV http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crust_punk just about Guarantee he changes this Article to meet his .her POV. 68.39.152.45 (talk) 22:03, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm concerned here that there is a lack of good faith. For example, 68.39.152.45, you removed a reference to Allmusic's page on Hirax, but in your edit summary you said "you were told to not use the bands webpage" (which it didn't). Claims such as "just about Guarantee he changes this Article to meet his .her POV." are also not in good faith. Also, unless a source explicitly states "[Band name] is not crossover thrash", a source not saying "crossover thrash" is not a contradiction.
SonOfPlisskin, you claim that each band is sourced, but in your edit here, only four bands were actually sourced. Each band needs to be sourced to be included on that list.
Instead of edit warring on the article, in the discussion that SonOfPlisskin started on Talk:Crossover thrash, each band in that list (plus any bands that any user thinks should be added) should be listed, and sources calling that band "crossover thrash" (or "crossover") listed with that band name. If the reliability of a source is questioned, any user can raise their doubts then. By the end of this process, every band in that list should have a reference from a reliable source next to its name. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 22:29, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
I meant that all the bands that I wanted to readd to the list are sourced. I was actually going to eventually add sources for the other bands, but not all today, as I don't have that much free time on my hands, and finding sources even for obvious bands like S.O.D. is more difficult than I thought it would be. I was in the middle of adding more sources in fact. The sources I added for the bands I was concerned with were immediately available to me and so I started with those. If you want, I'll take off all the bands and move it to the talk page. The IP is obviously not going to cooperate, and things are going to be extremely difficult if this keeps up. Not only is he using deathmetal.org (a new version of ANUS, which will never be considered reliable), but is also actually using the sidebar genre fields in AMG to support his view, when the guidelines say to avoid using those (not to mention that they don't have a "crossover" label). The Hirax bio clearly states otherwise. I don't see how I'm doing anything wrong by trying to find sources (which I'm only doing because the IP said there were no sources). Deleting my Allmusic link and claiming it was a band page is also going too far. SonOfPlisskin (talk) 23:12, 22 September 2014 (UTC)