Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorsport

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Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Andres Mendez[edit]

Dear Motorsport experts: This old draft was never submitted to be included in the encyclopedia. Is this a notable driver, or should to page be deleted as a stale draft? —Anne Delong (talk) 21:22, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

He's notable, after the Star Mazda Championship, which is mentioned in the article, he drove in Formula Renault 2.0 NEC in 2013 and ATS Formel 3 Cup in 2014, all of which are notable series. However the draft is so bad it would essentially need to be completely rewritten though. I'm fine with deleting it but if you generally keep these things for subjects for which an article could be written, I'm OK with that too. -Drdisque (talk) 22:39, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, Drdisque; I have made a start at rewriting the article, but I am handicapped by knowing nothing at all about auto racing. I found some references which look okay and added them to the article, but I may have created some misinformation accidentally. I added some refs at the bottom that I didn't know what to do with.—Anne Delong (talk) 22:38, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
Okay, it is in mainspace now at Andrés Méndez. —Anne Delong (talk) 03:26, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Nomination of Joseph DeLuca (racing driver) for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Joseph DeLuca (racing driver) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted. DeLuca is listed as having raced with the NNJR group in the Sports Car Club of America and may be important to that group.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joseph DeLuca (racing driver) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Your input is welcomed and you are encouraged to join the conversation. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Taram (talk) 20:13, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/David Ellesley[edit]

Dear motorsport experts: Here is yet another old abandoned draft about a racer. Is this a notable driver? If so, I am willing to do some cleanup for NPOV. —Anne Delong (talk) 04:09, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, there isn't enough there to establish notability. - The Bushranger One ping only 04:57, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
Agree, nothing notable. Feel free to delete. -Drdisque (talk) 16:36, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal[edit]

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Possible spam[edit]

Bit concerned about the editorial behavior of User:Neiltipton who has been deleting a bunch of links and replacing them with links to just one website and does not seem to be concerned with making any content edits. Bit of spamming going on. Have a look at this --Falcadore (talk) 14:12, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Micro Sprint[edit]

Dear motorsport experts: Is this old AfC submission about a notable topic? Should the page be kept and improved instead of being deleted as a stale draft? —Anne Delong (talk) 18:45, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Proposed changes to Template:Infobox racing car[edit]

An editor has proposed some changes to Template:Infobox racing car. The discussion is at Template talk:Infobox racing car#Non-F1 fields. DH85868993 (talk) 23:33, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Nomination of Legend racing deaths for deletion[edit]

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Legend racing deaths is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted. The article focuses on legendary drivers who died while racing.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Legend racing deaths until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Your input is welcomed and you are encouraged to join the conversation. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Royalbroil 15:12, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Australian motorsport vehicles[edit]

Historically Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore vehicles in Australian Touring Car Championship and V8 Supercar articles have been added in the Manufacturer / Generational identifier / Model format, e.g. Ford EB Falcon, as this was how the articles were named.

More recently a consensus was reached to bring these in line the international standard for article names, with all articles renamed, Ford Falcon (EB) etc.

Where an issue remains, is in articles such as Playscape Racing where different formats are used with Ford Sierra RS500 and Ford EB Falcon. Likewise in 1993 Australian Touring Car Championship we have Toyota Sprinter AE86 and Ford EB Falcon. One way or the other, a consistent format should be adopted. I believe there is agreement that the parentheses, are surplus.

In the real world, 3 formats are used interchangeably,[1][2][3] but as official bodies V8 Supercars[4][5] and the Confederation of Australian Motorsport,[6] as well as sites such as Autosport,[7] Natsoft,[8] Speedcafe[9] and Touring Car Times[10] have all adopted the Manufacturer / Model / Generational identifier format, it is proposed Wiki do likewise. V7867 (talk) 17:38, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

  • Support as nominator V7867 (talk) 17:38, 28 October 2014 (UTC):
Consistency is not a relevant criteria for article text. The primary identifier has always been what it used in the home market. There was a recent change in the name of consistency in article titles to move Ford XA Falcon for example to Ford Falcon (XA), but the rules for article titles are completely different to the article contents.
Australian market has always placed the model name immediately after the manufacturer name dating back to when Holdens, by way of example, were not refered to by a model name - eg Holden EH, not Holden Premier (and by way of explanation you will never see anywhere Holden Premier EH). Additionally, it also seperates the generation identifier from an trim label. eg Holden HQ Monaro GTS.
I would additionally note your examples are flawed. RS500 in Sierra refers to the trim, not to the model generation - which EB does. RS500 would equate to GT or GL or XR8. The Sierra does not have an equivalent to EB as it was a single generation vehicle. If Ford Sierra RS500 looks inconsistent to Ford EB Falcon, then that is because it is supposed to look different as RS500 and EB indicate completely different things. It also indicates the difference between Group A and the category that would become known as V8 Supercars. Group A was based on a specific production model and V8 Supercar was not. That is something we do not and should not ever change because of how it looks.
I would additionally note that this is not a topic for WT:WikiProject Motorsport, because it refers to cars in a designation not exclusive to motor racing, and should be discussed at WT:WikiProject Automobiles. --Falcadore (talk) 18:06, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
I would prefer to see a change to Manufacturer / Model / Generational identifier, as it makes more logical sense (Holden ⊃ Commodore ⊃ VF rather than Holden ⊃ VF ⊂ Commodore). However, it isn't a massive issue; either method gives the exact same information. KytabuTalk 22:37, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Note: At this point, User:V7867 hatted the discussion with the summary "The consensus reached after 7-day consultation period was: adopt Manufacturer / Model / Generational identifier format." User:Falcadore removed the hat. User:DH85868993 did some tidying up (including adding this note). DH85868993 (talk) 03:33, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Firstly - you are not an admin so closing a consensus is not within your purview, and secondly, if you were, there needs to be an actual consensus formed. This is categorically not a consensus when only three edittors are involved. I know you are an inexperienced edittor, but understanding what you are doing should be compulsory before performing actions like this. --Falcadore (talk) 02:45, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

With only three editors contributing at this point - the only possible close would be one of 'no consensus to change and thus standards revert to what they have been for the last 10 years plus. It should be born in mind you are trying to establish a consensus to change from the previous standard eg Ford EF Falcon to your prefered new version; Ford Falcon EF. --Falcadore (talk) 03:16, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Support — Although I am not involved in editing motorsport articles, I think the usage established by Holden Commodore (VF) should be the format used. OSX (talkcontributions) 21:23, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
Even though the description in that format [Holden Commodore (VF)] is not used by anyone anywhere and in fact has been invented by wikipedia? I also note that the Holden Commodore (VF) article actually refers to VF Commodore (not Commodore VF) in the body of the article. --Falcadore (talk) 22:48, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
It's about consistency, in accordance with WP:NAMINGCRITERIA. All other articles use this format: e.g. Toyota Corolla (E170), Jeep Cherokee (XJ), BMW 3 Series (E90), etc. Wikipedia tends to utilise the disambiguation style using parentheses. I don't believe there is an official name as such for the VF or any other model. Thus, in light of this, it is my view that we defer to the standards set elsewhere in the WP:CARS sphere, standards that in turn derive from the norms of the Wikipedia project in general.
In the body of the article, I see no issues with stating the name in a multitude of different styles: "VF Commodore", "Commodore VF", "Commodore", "VF", "VF series", etc. It would be unwieldy and repetitive to refer to VF constantly as "Holden Commodore (VF)" all throughout the article. OSX (talkcontributions) 14:50, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
I am not advocating a change the articles name, nor is V7867. I think perhaps you need to re-read the discussion. This is specifically about V7867 desire to alter the use of "Holden VF Commodore" in article content to "Holden Commodore VF" despite near universal use of "Holden VF Commodore" format in wikipedia articles to date, and the complete lack of usage in older vehicles, for example, Holden Premier EH has never been used to my knowledge anywhere. --Falcadore (talk) 15:03, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Fair enough, I am prepared to park it until the end of November, a month should be ample time enough for any interested editor to comment. V7867 (talk) 06:01, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
It should also perhaps be noted that the central placement of the generational code avoids confusion with model codes. For example, Holden VN Commodore SS and Holden Commodore VN SS. SS (short for Super Sport traditionally) it a trim indicator for the V8 version of the standard six cylinder Holden Commodore. Trim identifiers have always been placed at the end, generation identifiers as you point out have been placed interchangeably. Now to the uninitiated, VN SS looks like a trim indicator. Seperating the two makes for a logical indication that they are two seperate codes where placing them together does not. :Fundamentally, Holden Commodore VN SS is incorrect as the model is effectively "Commodore SS", much in the same way as Calais is refered to without the usage of Commodore (ie Commodore Calais) even though indisputably the Holden Calais is a Commodore. Holden VN Commodore SS is good, as is Holden Commodore SS (VN) even though it's usage is far from common. --Falcadore (talk) 06:09, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

FIM 2014 yearbook[edit]

I don't know if anybody else has come accross this publication, but I found the official FIM 2014 yearbook, available for download here to be a document full of interesting information in regards to motorcycle racing, with all official results from 2013 and official European and World Champions lists going back to 1924 in it. Thought I might share this resource with you. Calistemon (talk) 07:47, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

New article[edit]

I noticed the recent creation of Driver career-ending crashes, which may be of interest to project members. DH85868993 (talk) 21:48, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

...Of interest to nominate for deletion? Defining a career-ending crash is opening up a whole can of worms, and why exactly do we need to list it? The359 (Talk) 22:01, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
I don't have strong feeling either way about whether or not the article should exist. That's why I mentioned it here; in case others do. DH85868993 (talk) 22:07, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Expert attention[edit]

This is a notice about Category:Motorsport articles needing expert attention, which might be of interest to your WikiProject. It will take a while before the category is populated. Iceblock (talk) 19:45, 9 December 2014 (UTC)