Wikipedia talk:WikiProject New York City

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This page is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Cities (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject icon This page is within the scope of WikiProject Cities, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of cities, towns and various other settlements on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
 Project  This page does not require a rating on the project's quality scale.
 
WikiProject New York City (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject icon This page is within the scope of WikiProject New York City, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New York City-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
 Project  This page does not require a rating on the project's quality scale.
 
WikiProject New York (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject icon This page is within the scope of WikiProject New York, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of New York on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
 Project  This page does not require a rating on the project's quality scale.
 
WikiProject United States (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject icon This page is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
 Project  This page does not require a rating on the project's quality scale.
 

Newly created articles[edit]

These new articles may be of interest to expand to an elevated article ranking (both are start class and are over 10 kB):

Epic Genius (talk) 23:39, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Comments requested....[edit]

...at Talk:Mount Morris Bank Building#Attempt to own article and Talk:Mount Morris Bank Building#Image dispute BMK (talk) 20:56, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

WP:WikiProject New York Theatre[edit]

WikiProject New York Theatre is inactive, it should be converted to a taskforce of WPNYC, see WT:WikiProject New York Theatre for the discussion -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 05:39, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Grosvenor Avenue, Bronx[edit]

A question came up on my talk page which someone here may be able to answer better than I was. Anyone with extensive knowledge of Bronx neighborhood names and boundaries is encouraged to take a look at User talk:Beyond My Ken#Grosvenor Avenue. BMK (talk) 23:11, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I'd say Fieldston. I went to that neighborhood fairly recently, and I recognize the street name. Why do you ask? Epic Genius (talk) 00:19, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
@Wikiuser100: Regarding your comment here, the loop is almost definitely in north Fieldston, while the rest of the street is in Fieldston. However, since neighborhood boundaries are blurry for the most part, I'd say "Riverdale" is your best bet. Epic Genius (talk) 14:58, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Only if you're using the largest possible definition of "Riverdale". I'd fabor "North Fieldston" or just plain "Fieldston". I don't think "North Riverdale" is right, because the ridge mentioned starts at 250th & Iselin and goes west towards the river. Grosvenor loops either because of the terrain or because of the HH parkway. BMK (talk) 15:21, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
The northern part of Grosvenor is relatively new. It didn't exist in this 1996 aerial map, but it's under construction 10 years later. So it's a development of sorts, and the reason it loos is that it's hemmed in by Fieldson Avenue on the east, and the Henry Hudson Parkway on the borth and west -- there's basically no place for it do go, so, like a typical suburban develeopmen, it just looks around. If we could find out if the development has a name, that would help. BMK (talk) 15:33, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
OK, here's your answer. As you can see on this Google street image, the stone markers at the intersection of Grosvenor and 250th label the development to the north as Villanova Heights, so that's the name of that area. BMK (talk) 15:36, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Two NY Times articles on Villanova Heights:
BMK (talk) 15:42, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Good detective work BMK. That's the area in question, alright. I'm surprised first that it is so new and second at the slow pace of its development (not including governmental delays getting started). The "Villanova Heights" appellation appears to have been created as part of its development, displacing "Chapel Farms" according to the first of those Times articles you cited.

So the question remains, what neighborhood claims "Villanova Heights"? And while we're at it, the same for Christ Church immediately to the west (but inside the HHP) and the Riverdale Country School due east on Fieldston Road.

This passage from the North Riverdale page clearly places the Villanova Heights loop of Grosvenor starting at Iselin Avenue in the north and returning at 250th on the south in that neighborhood, according to the Federal Writers' Project of 1939: "One of the geographic characteristics which gives all of Riverdale its suburban quality is that it lies on a high ridge which separates it from the rest of the city.[1] The highest part of the ridge, at 284.5 feet above sea level, lies in North Riverdale, near Iselin Avenue and 250th Street."[2] (italics mine)

Considering the Project was published post-construction of the Henry Hudson Parkway (1934-37) it does not indicate its construction relegated that part of Grosvenor and its surrounds outside of North Riverdale, regardless that neighborhood elsewise is generally regarded today as beginning north of the Parkway at 254th Street.

It seems that the Fieldston's page's lede passage indicating it ends at 250th Street to the North is inconsistent with the Grosvenor "loop" being in Fieldston. I'm unaware of any "North Fieldston" neighborhood designation for the area north of 250th and south of the HH. As it stands, the FWP claim that the intersection of Iselin Avenue and 250th St. lies in North Riverside is all that's cited in the encylopedia. Those who know more please jump in. Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 16:34, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Ultan, Lloyd. "Riverdale" in Jackson, Kenneth T. (ed.), (2010) The Encyclopedia of New York City (2nd edition). New Haven: Yale University Press. ISBN 978-0-300-11465-2, p.1109
  2. ^ Federal Writers' Project. (1939) New York City Guide. New York: Random House. ISBN 0-403-02921-X (Reprinted by Scholarly Press, 1976; often referred to as WPA Guide to New York City), p. 510
Well, I see BMK is right. I've never heard of "Villanova Heights" before, being younger than a lot of editors on this site, but it looks like they have their own website. Plus, on the North Riverdale article, it says "The highest part of the ridge, at 284.5 feet above sea level, lies in North Riverdale, near Iselin Avenue and 250th Street" but not at the intersection, and numbered streets can disappear very easily in Riverdale. Maybe Villanova Heights is itself a Riverdale subsection, being not part of Fieldston or North Riverdale. Epic Genius (talk) 18:09, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
So far we've ascertained that Villanova Heights is the name of the neighborhood in the Grosvenor "loop" in question, but the jury's still out on what neighborhood that is in. The Federal Writer's Project claims it as North Riverdale. Christ Church is mute at its Wikipedia page (and its About Us links to its History are broken at its webpage [1]), but claimed by Fieldston at its here; as BMK points out the Horace Mann School is coyly mute about its Middle/Upper/Division at its webpage (but claimed here by Fieldston), and Riverdale Country School is mute about its "Hill Campus" neighborhood affiliation at both.
Anybody got a line on the boundaries of the Fieldston Property Owners' Association? Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 15:35, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure it's 250th Street. BMK (talk) 19:15, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm not part of that association, so I can't say for sure, but if the association says that the boundary is 250th Street, then it must be true, riiiight? Epic Genius (talk) 22:08, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

I'll go with that; they should know, if anybody. That puts the area above 250th but inside the HHP up for grabs...which the FWP claimed as North Riverside back in 1939 (post-HHP construction, which is key). It seems less than coincidental that all those entities within that area stand mute, preferring (it appears) to be associated (rather naturally) with Fieldston rather than claiming allegiance to the less prestigious North Riverside. Which is good biz. Who wouldn't?

I haven't a dog in the fight, was just curious what entity what we now know as Villanova Heights fell into considering the enormous swaths of construction evident there from high in the air. Check it out (it helps to close the wide Explore bar at the base of the display): [2]. Rather boggling, as one cannot identify a single other construction site from that altitude, nor could I flying over. Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 23:57, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

You really can't go by the FWP guide, published in 1939, there was no neighborhood there to name at the time - take a look at the links for the aerial photos above, or this one from 1924 and this one from 1951. You can;t name a neighborhood if there's no neighborhood there to name. The Henry Hudson physically separates Fieldston from Riverdale proper, therefore "North Riverdale" would logically be west of the parkway, not east of it.
  • On this New York Times real estate map, the "Fieldston" neighborhood encompasses everything inside the lopp of the Parkway
  • This real estate site lists a "North Fieldston" neighborhood in Riverdale, as well as a "Fieldston" and "North Riverdale", but I believe you have to sign in to get anything more than that.
Otherwise, there's not much support for "North Fieldston" as a neighborhood.
We could just call it terra nullius and leave it at that. Besides, what use is the name to us? We can't add it to articles without a source to support it, and there really aren't any. BMK (talk) 02:27, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
I couldn't find a better source. So, it would be in "North Fieldston" (if it existed), but North Fieldston doesn't exist, so... Epic Genius (talk) 15:27, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
...So North Riverdale it is by prior claim, though you can see why it would be lumped to advantage in with the geographically delimited Fieldston neighborhood. "Fieldston adjacent" is the usual euphemistic form for such informal attachments in the real estate trade. "North Fieldston" would make good sense, except that it isn't North Fieldston; you know the Fieldston property owners association would have something to say about that if the claim were made. Hence the muteness of all the above noted entities about their location just north of the legal end of the Fieldston boundary, No Man's Land that begins above 250th and south and east of the HHP. One can see why the FHP lumped it with North Riverside, if only be default (as we know nothing at this point of contemporary custom and use in 1939).
As for "Villanova Heights", I'd have left it "Chapel Farms". That sounds perfectly lovely so close to - actually still within - New York City. Not enouch cachet, I suppose, as Fitzpatrick chose to emphasize elevation over history. Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 12:20, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
I still think "North Riverdale" is excluded by the division of the ares by the parkway. BMK (talk) 13:56, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

I'd like to agree, but Fieldston is a legal entity (owned by the FPOA) and there isn't a "North Fieldston" as a result. The area above 250th existed post-construction of the HHP and was designated as North Riverside in a contemporary history completed two years after the Parkway was, not before. I'm just happy with all the work you did teasing out Villanova Heights (though only the original (undated) historic aerial photo ever displayed at the maps.nyc.gov website for me. The one you indicated as 1996.). Thanks! Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 14:57, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Names can't be owned, although they can be trademarked, and you are surely correct that the FPOA would try to stop it from being used. The real problem is that even with Villanova Heights, there just isn't much there to make up a neighborhood, so it's never hit "critical mass" in which the realtors would make up a neighborhood name which might (or might not) catch on. If it ever does happen, I think "Chapel Hill" is a good neighborhood name too. In the meantime, I think there's no choice but to describe it geographical (eg. "north of Fieldston") as opposed to by a name. BMK (talk) 16:17, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
I meant Fieldston as a neighborhood is a legal entity owned by the FPOA, which indeed is unusual within a large stable metropolis like NYC as compared to private fairway and retirement communities exploding in affluent Sunbelt areas, for example. "SoHo", "Hell's Kitchen", "Greenwich Village", "North Riverdale", et al, evolved and consensus names for informally bounded "public" neighborhoods, being of course the norm.
Indeed, Villanova Heights has never hit critical mass, curiously so. Stunted by the 2008 real estate implosion/general recession, but slow both before and after as well. There's more going on (why juicy McMansions on choice lots in such an incredibly convenient area) are not moving faster/being retained than meets the eye as seen from our distant, oblique perspective. It almost makes me curious enough to dig further. Almost. Alot's been spaded over here that those who may have a more personal knowledge or interest in the area's neighborhoods can use to fine tune and correct affected articles. Good work, everyone. Yours, Wikiuser100 (talk) 14:16, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Templates for deletion[edit]

Please see Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2015_May_8#Template:D_.28New_York_City_Subway_service.29 for a discussion of templates for deletion. The discussion is about the {{BS-map}} used for the C, D, and 4 trains of the NYC subway. Epic Genius (talk) 15:24, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Taxi at some intersection near 10th Avenue[edit]

I just started searching through some streets in the commons category "Streets in New York City," and after zooming in on this intersection I found out it was in Manhattan on Tenth Avenue. The only question is the street approaching it. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 18:34, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Sorry if I'm a little too lazy to look up the exact location.
  • It's West 26th Street at 10th Avenue, looking east. The low-rise Hudson Guild pre-school is on the north-east (far left) corner, hidden behind the trees, and the red brick buildings on the right and left past the avenue are the NYCHA's Elliott Houses. (I worked nearby for 3 years). The building on the right foreground is not part of the housing project. It has at least one art gallery in it, and "Avenues: The World School" - I believe it used to be a warehouse when I was there. BMK (talk) 18:40, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, and while we're discussing this, look what I found. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 22:00, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Wow, that's pretty amazing. BMK (talk) 22:13, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

oldnyc.org[edit]

Nice collection of old NYPL pictures, geotagged by object and mapped. site Jim.henderson (talk) 01:55, 24 May 2015 (UTC)