Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera

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A selection of June and July's new articles...

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Archives – Table of Contents
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Article creation and cleanup requests[edit]

Article requests

In a now archived discussion about List of operas performed at the Wexford Festival, GuillaumeTell suggested that the following conductors/directors/designers really ought to appear in Wikipedia. I'm copying it here for editors who may be interested in creating these articles:

Per this discussion

Voceditenore (talk) 12:43, 10 March 2010 (UTC) (latest update 06:29, 2 May 2011 (UTC))

Update: Dr. Blofeld has now created basic stubs for all of the above. I'll leave them up for the moment, as they need to be checked for bannering and possibly the addition of further references and/or external links with information for expanding the articles. Voceditenore (talk) 13:38, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

  • I have bannered all of the articles, but have not addressed referencing, external links, or category issues.4meter4 (talk) 22:14, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
  • I have started this translation from the German wiki. Cricketgirl (talk) 16:21, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Cleanup requests
  • Per this discussion, the following transwikied articles from the Italian Wikipedia need considerable clean-up:
Stefano GobattiLuigi BolisLando BartoliniGaetano BardiniBasilio BasiliLamberto BergaminiAngelo BendinelliArmando BiniAdolfo Bassi
  • Per this discussion, José Cura needs a better and more factual article with better referencing.
    • Update: after I'd done some reorganising, User:ManukaFonsworth came in and did a major expansion of the article with lots of supporting refs. Viva-Verdi (talk) 14:18, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Free subscriptions to databases[edit]

Voceditenore (talk) 10:53, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Opera articles: Recordings - which to exclude?[edit]

As there has been no further discussion on this since early December 2010, I've archived this here. But this is a topic we may want to revisit at some point, re expanding/clarifying the current article guidelines. Voceditenore (talk) 08:37, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

The latest discussion (January 2014) is archived here. – Voceditenore (talk) 09:12, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Greetings from the German language Opera Project[edit]

Hello, just wanted to say Hi! from the German language Opera Project. We started in the beginning of 2011, a very recent effort compared to you. Likewise, our average articles on operas, composers etc. are quite behind the en:WP in terms of coverage and content. Which is a shame, considering the richness of opera life in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. We have started by focussing on the widely read articles on popular operas, see this List, which gives page impressions in de:WP and en:WP and also global number of productions per year as a proxy for popularity. The rationale is this: given our low number of contributors, having 20 formerly poor articles on popular operas turned into solid works is worth more then 20 more articles on arcane subjects. How did you go about growing your project? PS: Maybe there could be some areas of cooperation, especially as regards access to and understanding of German language sources and literature. Let me know what you think. --Non mi tradir (talk) 16:49, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

  • I have introduced this timely proposal to the discussion here. --Smerus 20:27, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Articles needing libretto links[edit]

Note that for now some of the Rossini librettos can still be accessed from the list on this page on Karadar, but it will require adding those new links to the articles, and I'm not sure how long it will be before Karadar closes that loop hole. Anyhow, here's the list of operas so far where I've removed dead links and there is currently no other alternative. It's also possible to recover some of the karadar links via the Wayback machine, as was done at L'éclair, although it's a bit fiddly. If you add a new link, just strike through the opera name(s) below. Voceditenore (talk) 16:55, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Help! Does anyone know how to access Karadar these days? It appears to be a dead link - and I've tried to get into it via a couple of ways. Viva-Verdi (talk) 16:15, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi Viva-Verdi. It appears to have disappeared in all its guises–.com, .org. and .it. I have a feeling they ran into copyright problems with some of their stuff. It's not showing up on Google searches at all and see this wacky note. I have found this other site which has links to zillions of libretti. Hopefully, you'll find the one(s) you're looking for. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 18:06, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
List

Le domino noir (only score found), Sigurd (opera), Ciro in Babilonia, Sigismondo, Ricciardo e Zoraide, Eduardo e Cristina, L'equivoco stravagante, I Capuleti e i Montecchi, Médée (Charpentier), Emilia di Liverpool, Francesca di Foix, Il signor Bruschino

International Opera Awards (redlinks)[edit]

The International Opera Awards aim to reward the best of the opera world -- the top people, companies, productions, recordings, performances -- every individual and organisation at the top of their game internationally in the world of opera. One of the categories was philanthropist/sponsor. Of the remaining 19 categories, 15 were for established achievement over a period (all nominees of which I might reasonably expect to find within Wikipedia) and four which are rather more fast moving: best newcomer (conductor or director), new singer, rediscovered work and world premiere. The nominees for these last four should all be worthy of an article, but perhaps some few would be missing from Wikipedia(?)

I wikilinked the nominees and winners of the 2013 edition this morning, and found a lot more redlinks than I expected and some very surprising lacunae:

and of the faster moving:

NB: To preserve my sanity (and will to live), I am not watching ANY pages that touch on the infobox holy wars (including this one). For any feedback on the above, please go to the article talk page. Scarabocchio (talk) 17:20, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

List edited to remove Dmitri Tcherniakov (found under Dmitry Chernyakov). Scarabocchio (talk) 08:19, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Spam links to classicistranieri.com[edit]

Be on the lookout for these. They've been added to many opera and opera-related articles. This ad-filled Italian site simply downloads material found on archive.org, Project Gutenberg, WikiSource, or Commons and passes it off as their own. Links often go to recordings which are claimed to be licensed under creative commons but many are copyright infringements, in the US at least. Others go to mirrors of pages on Project Gutenberg. Example which I removed from Rigoletto today. You can get a list of the WP articles currently linking to this site here. – Voceditenore (talk) 20:25, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Le magazine de l'opéra baroque[edit]

It appears that the prolific author of Le magazine de l'opéra baroque, and the websites http://operabaroque.fr and http://livretsbaroques.fr has decided on a name change. Previously given (and extensively linked from Wikipedia) as Jean-Claude Brenac, these websites and the linked books now give the author as Claude-Jean Nébrac. Scarabocchio (talk) 07:06, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For Opera At Wikimania 2014[edit]

Are you looking to recruit more contributors to your project?
We are offering to design and print physical paper leaflets to be distributed at Wikimania 2014 for all projects that apply.
For more information, click the link below.
Project leaflets
Adikhajuria (talk) 13:58, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Request for guidance on Handel opera articles[edit]

I have been trying to improve the articles on Handel operas, many of which have been in a very inadequate state in my opinion, and will probably continue to do more and want to make sure I am not doing wrong things so I have a few questions.

  • I like the sections to go "lead, background, roles, synopsis, musical features, reception and performance history,recordings, external links" in that order. Is that OK?
  • "Performance history" for all of these many works basically goes "so many performances in the first run, Handel revived it (or not) in this year and in that, then nobody put it on for about two hundred years, nowadays it is likely to be performed just about anywhere." Handel operas typically have six singers, no chorus and rather small orchestras so can be put on at small scale festivals as well as famous opera houses, even the most obscure ones have been put on in all sorts of places now, who can keep up with that? and is it really very interesting? some of the articles have what seems to be rather random mention of a production that just seems to have caught the attention of whoever put it in the article, my inclination is to cut it out and just say "no one did it at all between 1732 and 1924, or whatever, now, like all Handel operas, it receives performances at opera houses and festivals" (citing a source). Is that OK?
  • Some of the articles have unsourced sections "Notable arias" which just look like personal favourites of whoever put that in the article to me. Is it OK to remove sections like that? All the arias in all of Handel's operas are notable if you ask me.
  • Thanks,Smeat75 (talk) 00:20, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
Well, thanks for your work on these article although, as I've previously pointed out some of the formatting issues, which are illustrated below, to you before this, here is the Project's article layout format.Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/Article styles and formats
For some reason, many editors of Handel articles seem to have gone their own way on this.
This all comes from the Project page. Hope it helps. Viva-Verdi (talk) 03:03, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Amadeus Almanac[edit]

What has happened to the Amadeus Almanac? It looks as though a lot of our links to this database may be broken, e.g., "Louis+Gueymard" www.amadeusonline.net. (Maybe I'm missing something?) --Robert.Allen (talk) 01:01, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Yikes! They have completely revamped their site to show only the almanac for the current day with no link to almanac itself. My initial reaction was "Che disastro totale!". The almanac was an incredibly useful resource. I have now discovered that it is still online but at a different url.
Go to http://www.amadeusonline.eu/almanacco.php.
Having said that, the mass of broken links is still a disastro and I'm not sure how long the almanac will remain up even at the new .eu domain SMirC-sad.svg. Voceditenore (talk) 05:13, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
I agree, this has been a very important resource for the project. Fortunately the search strings seem to be unchanged. Updating all of these links to the new root will be tedious, unless we can somehow use a bot. Update: I tried modifying the link at Louis Guéymard. Apparently all that needed to be change was "amadeusonline.net" to "amadeusonline.eu" --Robert.Allen (talk) 06:39, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
We should switch to using templates for this sort of thing. If the domain changes, but the site structure remains the same, all of the links could be fixed by editing a single line in the template. I'll look into it. Scarabocchio (talk) 07:15, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
I did a search on Google with "amadeusonline.net" site:en.wikipedia.org. There were "About 308 results". Not sure how accurate Google's search engine is. --Robert.Allen (talk) 07:28, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
Could someone explain to me what the Amadeus Almanac is and why it is listed as a source or reference for numerous Handel opera articles? I clicked on it and could not see any relevance to the article on a Handel opera I was revising so I took it out.Smeat75 (talk) 03:21, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
Hi Smeat. Its a searchable almanac and is useful for premiere dates and casts as well as records of other performances of a particular opera, composer, singer etc. It's particularly useful for rarely performed operas in Italy and France and often provides information about the conductor, set designer, libretto sources, etc. as well. You can search either by a specific date or for all dates containing the search term. (There's a bit more about it at Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera/Online research#General resources.) It's part of the website of Amadeus, a long-running Italian print classical music magazine. See the bottom of this page for the sources used to compile the almanac. Because it can provide a quick basic reference, it was (and is) often used here for stub articles and has remained in many cases even when they have been greatly expanded. If it has no information beyond what any of the other references in the article provide, then feel free to remove it. I find that people often don't format the ref properly to indicate what it is, i.e. they put simply Amadeus Almanac. I use:
Best, Voceditenore (talk) 06:18, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
Thank you Voceditenore and I had not seen that "general resources" list either, very useful.Smeat75 (talk) 12:01, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
My two cents: I don't think it is ever a good idea to delete a source that an editor has used to add information to an article. And this is a particularly useful source. The fact that the links now appear "irrelevant" is only because the url for the database has changed. These urls should be fixed, not deleted. --Robert.Allen (talk) 09:06, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
@Smeat and Robert. If it has been used as an inline citation and has been replaced by a better one, I see nothing wrong with removing it. But here's a prime example where it should not have been removed: Alessandro (opera). The Amadeus entry (amended url) has the premiere cast and was obviously used to source the Roles section, including the relatively minor roles, albeit without an inline citation. The role table currently has no inline citation and a source which could have provide it has now been removed. Voceditenore (talk) 10:48, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
Yes, that was the occasion I meant when I said I clicked on it and couldn't see what it had to do with Alessandro as it went to a page with "what happened on this day in music history" in Italian and a lot of ads so I took it out. I have put it back with your amended url although it is not necessary for the role table as The Handel Institute has a site with all the singers in Handel's works in his lifetime so far as is known which I have added as a citation in the role table. ThanksSmeat75 (talk) 12:54, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I probably overstated it. Should have said "rarely a good idea". There have been occasions when I've moved it to external links and used a libretto for the citation that differed in some details. Still, librettos are often printed before the performance, and there may have been changes, which are documented elsewhere, like in a review. I do remember once tho that Amadeus listed a singer that had, per other sources, already died. Almost all sources probably have a few errors especially when they cover a lot of territory, like Casaglia's database. --Robert.Allen (talk) 21:03, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Schubert - Die Verschworenen D.787[edit]

I am currently assembling the material to write an article on this opera. However I have stumbled across a question relating to the performance history that I do not have the material to resolve, yet. According to one source the score was printed in 1862 following the intial 1861 performances in Vienna (Concert) and Frankfurt(Staged). Apparently the first performance in the United States took place in March of 1863 at a theater in Hoboken, New Jersey (My source is a copy of Maurice J.E. Brown's, Schubert: A Critical Biography dating from 1958). Sadly he only mentions it in a footnote and I've not been able to trace this further. It would be most helpful if someone could find a reliable source as to who arranged the performance, which theater it took place in and whether it was a Concert performance or a Staged performance.

Also in the review linked to below it is claimed that the Opera was performed in private sometime between 1823 and 1861, but I've been able to locate no confirmation on this. If anyone can advise as to a source I would be greatful.

Franz Schubert: The Conspirators (Die Verschworenen)

Graham1973 (talk) 17:53, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Graham1973. Re the private performance see footnote 55 on p. 95 of The Unknown Schubert. If you can't access that page, let me know and I'll type out what it says. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 09:33, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi Graham1973. Me again re the Hoboken performance...
From Dwight's Journal of Music (April 4, 1863) here (Note the text below is OCR'd from the page image, so use the page image to cross check)
The Concordia, a German singing society in Hoboken, have recently performed a little opera by Franz Schubert: "The Conspirators, or the Domestic Strife." It is the first operatic work of Schubert ever attempted in this country. The Musical Review says of it:
The opera was written in 1819, when Schubert was but 23 years old. No doubt the work itself gives unmistakable sign of the youth of the composer. Those riches of modulation, those traits of originality, with whicn his later works aoonnd, are not to be "found in the score. Everything is simple, very intelligible and often by no means peculiarly Schubertish. For instance, the song-writer Schubert, as ho is known to the present generation, will be scarcely recognized. With exception of the romance of the Countess in F minor and the first part of the Duo between Adolf and Helene in B flat, there can be hardly in the whole score traced anything, which might point to the manner and the turns of melody we find for instance in his songs. Yet the music is much more modern, than most of the music of this style was, composed forty and fifty years ago. One can tiike the comic operas of the German composers of that time, and one can easily see, how independent Schubert appears in spite of his twentythree years. Besides there aro scarcely any songs in the opera. The choruses, the ensembles, form the chief features of the work, and these in some instances are of an irresistible charm, as for instance the welcome chorus of the women, in C. The conipiration scene is also of good effect, especially the concluding Andantino in D. Of excellent and even dramatic effect are the two Ariettas by the Count nnd the Countess, the one in A, the other in C, although in the mniu features the same music. The finale, too, offers some excellent music, but here the want of really dramatic progression is felt most. The music does not reach its climax, on the contrary it loses its interest. It is true this is partially caused by the libretto (by J. F. Castelli) but on the whole this libretto is better than the majority of text-books of this class, especially of an older period of operatic art. With a few cuttings and alterations the little opera could be made very effective, especially on a large stage, and with the help of the orchestra, the treatment of which, to judge from the Piano-score, must be occasionally quite interesting. But even without these accessories and alterations the operetta has proved quite attractive, as all those can testify, who witnessed the performance in Hoboken. The scenery worked well, the costnmcs were very appropriate and pretty and everything was neat and acceptable. The choruses, some of which are by no means easy, were creditably snng, and the soloists, Miss Ludecus, Messrs. Urchs and Schoenfeldt, and two or three others, whose names we could not nscertain, gave general satisfaction. We need simply add that Mr. Timm was at the piano (one of Steinway's Grands) to satisfy our readers, that the accompaniment was in the right hands. The performance was preceded by the overture to "Euryanthe," rendered by Messrs. Timm and H. Branrkhunsen.
We understand that the opera will be repeated for the benefit of Mr. Serge, the conductor, to whose energy and zeal the bringing out of the work is chiefly due.
From Allgemeine musikalische Zeitung (27 May 1863) here :
Ein deutscher Gesangverein in Hoboken (Amerika) hat vor Kurzem zweimal Schuberts Operette «Die Verschworenen« aufgeführt; vorher wurde die Euryanthe-Ouvertüre gespielt. Das Werk selbst wurde in 2 Akten gegeben und die Hauptdarstellerin sang als Einlage die Cdur-Arie der Gräfin aus »Figaro's Hochzeit« (!). (Google translation)
If you Google "Concordia Singing Society" Hoboken, there's probably more about them out there. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 10:27, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for finding that. It gives me a good run of opinion on the music as I now have sources from 1863, 1881, 1905, 1958 and later. Still feeling my way with this one. Graham1973 (talk) 21:47, 4 July 2014 (UTC)