Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality/Sex work task force

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Task force talk page

Sex worker rights[edit]

Hi there. There is a lot to do but I wondered if anybody was interested in doing some work on the sex worker rights article, it looks like it will be included in the rights template (see [Template talk:Rights]). in the moment its in very bad shape.--SasiSasi (talk) 23:34, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Forced prostitution[edit]

BTW, I have recently created an article for Forced prostitution, which needs "some" work and links into many other sex worker and sexual violence related articles. maybe of interest to your group.--SasiSasi (talk) 23:51, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

New article: Feminist views on prostitution[edit]

I just wanted to point to a newly-created article, Feminist views on prostitution. While an article on this topic is clearly needed on Wikipedia, it is one of the most severely biased article's I've seen to date, basically presenting almost only the radical feminist view as "the feminist" view on prostitution as a whole, and giving very short shrift to pro-sex worker feminism. (I discuss this further over on the talk page for the article.) Help in cleaning up this article is always appreciated. Iamcuriousblue (talk) 23:49, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

POV Forks[edit]

As a followup to the above section, I want to note that it turns out there are several sections that have serious WP:NPOV problems. These articles are essentially POV forks. In addition to Feminist views on prostitution, the articles in question are Prostitution (criminology) and Legality of prostitution (specifically, the "Debate_over_legalization" section). These forks are quite blatantly one-sided, presenting an anti-prostitution/"prostitution abolitionist" position as basically the sole political and academic view on the subject. These articles are now severely unbalanced and in violation of WP:NPOV.

The thing is, some of these subjects are large enough topics to break out into their own articles. However, it seems that in practice, the purpose of breaking these sections out into independent articles was to create editorializing articles away from watchful eyes in the original article.

I am requesting more eyes on these articles and help in reintegrating these related articles (note: I don't mean merging them back) back into simple content breakouts rather than overlapping or POV forks. Iamcuriousblue (talk) 19:53, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

What the status of the project?[edit]

Hey all, I've been editing anonymously for a while but have decided to create an account and get involved in fixing up the sex work related articles. I can see from the discussion above that there is concern over some of the same issues I've seen. I've started a list on my user page. any comments or suggestions are appreciated. Perhaps it might evolve into a set of guidelines for the task force or standards for sex work related articles. TJ Black (talk) 07:49, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Possible edit warring on Sex tourism[edit]

I seem to have been drawn into a borderline edit war over the removal of a photo by Rak-Tai - a very tendentious editor who's also removed material from List of red-light districts. This is a classic example of #8 on my list - the photo depicts prostitutes and customers and since prostitution is bad, it must be removed for fear of insulting/offending/libeling the subjects. I've tried discussing it with him, to no avail, and now another editor, Boing! said Zebedee, with no understanding of the situation, has jumped in on his side. I know I should just walk away, but this is exactly the kind of thing I'd like to see stop. Any advice? TJ Black (talk) 07:15, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

I am not a huge fan of images on Wiki, they often don't add much and sometimes seem to be there for titillation. I also have not had a good experience - most images I add get removed. If you think the image is important - provide a link. Speaking of edit wars - look out for 123username who is devoted to slanting sex work articles. Mgoodyear (talk) 14:06, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

(Sex act) vs (Sexual act)[edit]

I have noticed that there isn't a guidline/policy on whether to use (sex act) or (sexual act) after terms that have other uses other than sexual ones, like Creampie (sexual act) and Facial (sex act). To me, this neads to be standardized and fixed. 99.20.100.127 (talk) 01:46, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

In order to improve accurate information about Sex Trafficking, Sex Slavery, Human Trafficking topics in Wikipedia, the following major news report information should be included in the discussion:[edit]

In order to improve accurate information about Sex Trafficking, Sex Slavery, Human Trafficking topics in Wikipedia, the following major News report information should be included in the discussion:

Village Voice Media News in the March 24, 2011 issue have a story about the controversial statistics used to calculate sex trafficking and Sex Slavery victims: By Nick Pinto – Village Voice Media:

http://www.villagevoice.com/2011-03-23/news/women-s-funding-network-sex-trafficking-study-is-junk-science/

March 2, 2011: In the Dallas News March 2, 2011 By JESSICA L. HUSEMAN -Staff Writer FBI report on Super Bowl Sex Trafficking:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/super-bowl/local/20110302-top-fbi-agent-in-dallas-praises-super-bowl-security-effort-sees-no-evidence-of-expected-spike-in-child-sex-trafficking.ece

January 31, 2011: Dallas TV News WFAA show about super bowl sex trafficking: by JASON WHITELY Dallas WFAA news:

http://www.wfaa.com/sports/football/super-bowl/Super-Bowl-prostitution-prediction-has-no-proof--114983179.html

About Super Bowl Sex Trafficking: Dallas Observer Newspaper: By Pete Kotz January 27, 2011: http://www.dallasobserver.com/2011-01-27/news/the-super-bowl-prostitute-myth-100-000-hookers-won-t-be-showing-up-in-dallas/

Dallas Observer Newspaper: By Pete Kotz March 3, 2011: http://www.dallasobserver.com/2011-03-03/news/super-bowl-prostitution-100-000-hookers-didn-t-show-but-america-s-latest-political-scam-did/

In the United Kingdom[edit]

In October 20, 2009 Nick Davis of the London Guardian newspaper writes about Sex Trafficking, Sex Slavery:

Guardian newspaper: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/20/government-trafficking-enquiry-fails http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/20/trafficking-numbers-women-exaggerated

Washington post article: About Sex Trafficking, Sex Slavery in the USA By Jerry Markon Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, September 23, 2007

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/22/AR2007092201401.html



Wr8675309 (talk) 14:28, 11 April 2011 (UTC)Jeff Lewis

There is a lot of controversy over the topics of sex trafficking, sex slavery, human trafficking. This controversy should be noted, included, and explained in these topics in Wikipedia.[edit]

There is a lot of controversy over the topics of sex trafficking, sex slavery, human trafficking and forced prostitution. Regarding what the definition is, the research methods used to find statistics, what the definition of a victim is, the number of child and adult victims involved, forced vs. unforced sex, Laws, government policy, how the actual prostitutes themselves feel about it, and legal vs. illegal prostitution. This controversy should be noted, included, and explained in these topics in Wikipedia. In order to improve accurate information.

There is a growing number of well respected researchers, journalists, scientists, professors, that have concluded in their research that the sex trafficking, sex slavery concept is based on emotion, morals, and monetary funding rather than facts, evidence and proof. They state that very few kidnapped, forced against their will, physically abused, raped sex slave prostitutes for profit have been found throughout the world. Their research concludes that women who enter into this type of work do so of their own free will. They also state that there are many anti-prostitution groups who simply do not like the idea of consensual adult prostitution and have distorted the facts in order to push their agenda and receive funding and money into their organizations in the form of donations, government grants, and to change the laws about prostitution. They state that these anti-prostitution groups use made up child sex trafficking statistics which they have no proof or evidence of in order to gain public acceptance for their cause. Which they then pass onto the mainstream media as press releases.

Here are links about some these reports:

Christine Monfort: http://the-myth-of-sex-trafficking.weebly.com/

Laura Maria Agustin, In her book: “Sex at the margins” http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Margins-Migration-Markets-Industry/dp/1842778609

Detailed Report and research about sex Trafficking, Sex Slavery, Prostitution: by Ronald Weitzer http://myweb.dal.ca/mgoodyea/Documents/Sex%20work%20-%20General/The%20mythology%20of%20prostitution%20-%20advocacy%20research%20and%20public%20policy%20Weitzer%202010%20Sex%20Res%20Soc%20Pol%207%2015-29.pdf

Ronald Weitzer: http://www.bayswan.org/traffick/Weitzer_Criminologist.pdf

Nathalie Rothschild spiked magazine: http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/9843/

J.R. Lewis: http://sextraffickingtruths.blogspot.com/ J.R. Lewis:

http://bebopper76.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/sex-trafficking-lies-myths/

Washington post article: Human Trafficking Evokes Outrage, Little Evidence “U.S. Estimates Thousands of Victims, But Efforts to Find Them Fall Short” By Jerry Markon Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, September 23, 2007 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/22/AR2007092201401.html

Minnesota City Pages News in the March 23, 2011 issue have a story about the controversial statistics used to calculate sex trafficking and Sex Slavery victims: By Nick Pinto – Minnesota city pages

http://www.citypages.com/2011-03-23/news/women-s-funding-network-sex-trafficking-study-is-junk-science/

The Village Voice newspaper in New York has a section on the Sex trafficking controversy:

http://www.villagevoice.com/sex-trafficking/

In October 20, 2009 Nick Davis of the London Guardian newspaper writes about a large British Sex Trafficking, Sex Slavery investigation that failed to find a single victim.

Guardian newspaper: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/20/government-trafficking-enquiry-fails

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/20/trafficking-numbers-women-exaggerated

January 31, 2011: Dallas TV News WFAA show about super bowl sex trafficking finds no proof of sex trafficking, sex slavery. by JASON WHITELY Dallas WFAA news:

http://www.wfaa.com/sports/football/super-bowl/Super-Bowl-prostitution-prediction-has-no-proof--114983179.html

Angry Harry: http://www.angryharry.com/es-Where-Are-All-The-Sex-Slaves.htm http://www.angryharry.com/reHappyhookersofEasternEurope.htm

Wr8675309 (talk) 18:27, 29 May 2011 (UTC)Jeff Lewis

Soliciting review of new article[edit]

I have written and posted a biography of Fanny White, a 19th C sex worker in New York City, as a project for a course on US women's history. Would appreciate constructive comments from anyone who has a few moments to peruse the article. Thank you, Janeweaving (talk) 02:34, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Trafficking of children[edit]

The sex work task force of WikiProject Sexology and Sexuality aims to develop and manage a comprehensive and accurate set of articles related to sex work, sex workers, and the larger sex industry. In the upcoming weeks, I plan to make significant edits and additions to Trafficking of children, an article that certainly falls within the scope of this task force. Currently, this article is listed as High Importance in WikiProject Human Rights, as child trafficking has been internationally recognized as a severe violation of human rights. However, it is also listed as Start Class, an appropriate classification given that this article is outdated and, overall, quite deficient in terms of content. I plan to create several new sections concerning child trafficking mechanisms, prevalence, impacts, and solutions, essentially building a solid basic structure that facilitates future contributions. In addition, I plan to include a section that focuses specifically on the ways in which female children and adolescents are disproportionately affected by trafficking practices, particularly via sex work. As I move forward with my proposed editing plans, I would sincerely appreciate any feedback. I look forward to the opportunity to develop this article, and ultimately, contribute to the work of this task force. Crr4 (talk) 22:14, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

There needs to be a distinct separation of 1. Child sex trafficking 2. Adult consensual prostitution. 3. Rape They are not the same. Adult Women are NOT children. Media coverage of trafficking and adult women's migration and sex work is confused and inaccurate. The media wrongly uses the terms 'sex work' and 'trafficking' and consensual adult sex work and child sex trafficking synonymously, perpetuating stereotypes and stigmatization, and contributing to the violation of women's right to free movement and livelihood options. They assume that if any woman moves from place to place for sex work that they are being trafficking. The media, politicians, aid groups, feminist, and religious organizations does not take into account that she may do this of her own free will. Too often women are treated like children. Adult women are not children. Sex Trafficking/Slavery is used by many groups as a attempt to outlaw all adult consensual prostitution around the world by saying that all women are victims even if they have sex willing. This hurts any real victims because it labels all sex workers as victims. Non government Organizations (NGO's) are chiefly responsible for manufacturing “a growing problem” of trafficking in order to generate revenue for their Federally funded cottage industry. They also fabricated numbers by expanding the definition of trafficking to include practically anyone. Prostitution is a business between adults and in our society adults are responsible for themselves. Sex slavery is just that, slavery and it's non-consensual."To equate the two is to say grown women aren't capable of being responsible and making decisions for themselves.

Human Trafficking Evokes Outrage, Little Evidence U.S. Estimates Thousands of Victims, But Efforts to Find Them Fall Short By Jerry Markon Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, September 23, 2007

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/22/AR2007092201401_pf.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/22/AR2007092201401.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/20/governmen... http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/20/trafficki... http://bebopper76.wordpress.com http://sextraffickingtruths.blogspot.com/ http://www.villagevoice.com/sex-trafficking/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wr8675309 (talk Wr8675309 (talk) 00:19, 18 August 2012 (UTC)• contribs) 18:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Research paper Statistics from 2011 Global Alliance Against Traffic in Women (GAATW) Writer and researcher: Julie Ham GAATW on Sex Trafficking, Human Trafficking, Prostitution Sex Slavery at Sporting events such as the Olympics, World Cup, Super Bowl

WHAT’S THE COST OF A RUMOUR?

A guide to sorting out the myths and the facts

about sporting events and trafficking 2011 WHAT’S THE COST OF A RUMOUR? A guide to sorting out the myths and the facts about sporting events and trafficking

http://www.gaatw.org/publications/WhatstheCostofaRumour.11.15.2011.pdf

http://issuu.com/nswp/docs/whatsthecostofarumour.11.15.2011-1-

http://issuu.com/nswp/docs/whatsthecostofarumour.11.15.2011-1-?mode=window&pageNumber=1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wr8675309 (talkcontribs) 19:02, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Child forced sex trafficking is extremely rare. So the police find and arrest ADULT consensual prostitutes instead. While not finding any Children, or very few. They use the excuse of Children - But, children are not involved in this adult activity. There may be a small few who are homeless or runaways, and need cash and do sex work of their own free will. Not victims of a epidemic of terrible crime gangs. Mostly, the police found and arrested adult prostitutes and pimps. When the police go after underage prostitutes they mostly find and arrest adult prostitutes and johns. Why are the police wasting their time on adult prostitutes? Instead of spending that time going after underage prostitutes?

Why aren’t the police finding millions of children forced against their will to have sex for money? Because their aren’t millions of them. And what proof do they have that they were forced against their will?

Why are the police just finding, and arresting consensual adults? Because the child victims either don’t exist or are very few in number. They use the excuse of children to arrest consenting adults. If they are just after children, they why don’t they leave the consenting adults alone? The police arrest the consenting adults that they find Why?

If there is no children involved – why arrest the consenting adult prostitutes, johns, and pimps? They are no children involved? Why are the police wasting their time on adult prostitutes? Instead of spending that time going after underage prostitutes? Because the police are mostly after adult prostitutes, not children.

Were all the underage prostitutes forced and raped? crying, kicking and screaming while being forced, against their will to have sex for money?

If a prostitute is 17 and under the age of 18, she can not give legal consent. So, she could have wanted to be a prostitute, and given consent for sex, but since she is underage, she can not give legal consent, so legally she was “forced” even if she gives total consent to sex and it was consensual - she was “forced” according to the court and justice system. There is a BIG difference between being legally “forced” and truly being physically forced against someone’s will.

This gives the impression that all prostitutes under the age of 18 are “forced” when they may in fact, not have been. If fact, if two people who are both 17 years old have sex, they both are legally considered to be victims and sex predators at the same time. It is strange how the justice system works.


There is hard evidence that the sex slavery/sex trafficking issue continues to report false information and is greatly exaggerated by politicians, that receive fund from the government.


When the police arrest customers of prostitutes and the prostitutes themselves: They try to get the the prostitutes to say that they were forced and victims of sex trafficking even though they weren’t. These prostitutes just flat out say, ‘Nope, that’s not what’s happening.’ No one is forcing me” Then the U.S. Attorney general, senators, the police and government officials say: “We have to help them realize they are victims,” They must be brainwashed by their pimps, and johns. They say that adult women do not have the ability to make decisions for themselves about sex, therefore The government must make all their decisions about sex and who they have sex with for them. So… the police are trying to invent victims? Where no victim exist? The adult women say that no one is forcing them to work in prostitution and the police don’t believe them? So the police want these adult women to lie? and the police are forcing the women to lie about being forced? I thought lying was wrong? And isn’t it against the law to lie? -Not for the police, attorney general and other government officials. Where are all the underage children kidnapped and forced against their will to have sex for profit by a pimp? How come we don’t see any of the victims themselves complaining about it? Why don’t the “millions of child victims” talk about how they were kidnapped and forced by a evil pimp to have sex for profit? I would like to have a interview with the “millions of forced against their will raped kidnapped child victims” So I could hear their stories. Where are they? Why do we only hear from the anti-prostitution groups that received money and grants from the government, and not the millions of victims themselves? If there are Millions of them, Shouldn't the police and public know where they are, and shouldn't we hear the millions of victims speak?

Most Prostitutes are not forced. They do the work of their own free will. Sex trafficking is illegal and the penalties are very severe. It is very difficult to force someone to be a prostitute, they would have to have 24 hour guards posted and be watched 365 days a year, 24 hours per day. Have the threat of violence if they refused, and have no one notice and complain to the authorities or police. They would need to hide from the general public yet still manage to see customers from the general public and not have the customers turn the traffickers in to the police. They would need to provide them with medical care, food, shelter, and have all their basic needs met. They would need to have the sex slaves put on a fake front that they enjoyed what they were doing, act flirtatious and do their job well. They would have to deal with the authorities looking for the missing women, and hide any money they may make, since it comes from illegal activity. They must do all of this while constantly trying to prevent the sex slaves from escaping and reporting them to the police. They would need to prevent the general public from reporting them into the police. This is extremely difficult to do, which makes this activity rare. These criminals would be breaking dozens of major laws not just one. Kidnapping itself is a serious crime. There are many laws against sex trafficking, sex slavery, kidnapping, sex abuse, rape, sexual harassment etc. If someone is behind it, they will be breaking many serious laws, be in big trouble, and will go to jail for many long years. And do you actually think that there is a long line of people who want to have a career as a sex slave kidnapping pimp?

There is a lot of controversy over the numbers of children who are forced sex slaves. The real factual answer is that no one knows. There is hard evidence that the sex slavery/sex trafficking issue continues to report false information and is greatly exaggerated by politicians, the media, and aid groups, feminist and religious organizations that receive funds from the government, The estimate of children who become new sex slaves ranges anywhere from 40 million a year to 5,000 per year all of which appear to be much too high. They have no evidence to back up these numbers, and no one questions them about it. Their sources have no sources, and are made up numbers. In fact if some of these numbers are to believed which have either not changed or have been increased each year for the past twenty years, all girls on earth would currently be sex slaves. Yet, very few real forced against their will sex slaves have been found.

http://bebopper76.wordpress.com/human-trafficking-in-denver-colorado-colorado-springs-sex-trafficking-rocky-mountain-states-research-papers-on-sex-slavery/

http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/what-do-you-really-know-about-hookers/#comments

http://www.lauraagustin.com

http://www.sexhysteria.com/

http://www.policeprostitutionandpolitics.com/

http://weconsent.org/pages/sex-trafficking/article-1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wr8675309 (talkcontribs) 19:21, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

The following information is from a report from the Crimes against children research center which talks about the Unknown Exaggerated Statistics of Juvenile Prostitution.

http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/prostitution/Juvenile_Prostitution_factsheet.pdf

Crimes against Children Research Center ● University of New Hampshire ● 126 Horton Social Science Center ● Durham, NH 03824 (603) 862‐1888●Fax: (603) 862‐1122●www.unh.edu/ccrc

Sex Trafficking of Children: What are the Numbers? By Brenda Zurita http://www.cwfa.org/familyvoice/2011-11/CWA_FamilyVoiceInsight_Nov2011.pdf

Rights work reports: http://rightswork.org/

http://www.gaatw.org/publications/WhatstheCostofaRumour.11.15.2011.pdf

Wr8675309 (talk) 00:18, 18 August 2012 (UTC)Jeff Lewis

Revision to Sex Workers' Rights[edit]

I propose editing the current article Sex Workers' Rights because, as it currently stands, it is not comprehensive and all-encompassing of the movement. My contributions would generally include an expansion in all of the sections so that they give a better synopsis of the multiple aspects of sex workers' rights. I also would like to add a section pertaining to the specific dangers that sex workers' face and a disease/prevention section. Furthermore, the current article needs a section about oppositions and criticisms of the movement so that future readers can understand what sex workers are fighting for and why the opposition is not in favor of them having rights. This would help bring neutrality to the article. Some of the sources I am looking into using include: an interview of a sex worker by Janice Raymond,the Prostitution Pro Con website, "Sex Workers and Sexual Assault: The Hidden Crime" by Julie Robinson and Bridgett Madeline, and many more. I also found sources related to disease prevention in sex work and particular instances of the abuses of sex workers' rights. Finally, I think that the Dominatrix Employment Issues is a really important aspect of sex work that deserves attention. However, it is difficult to find information about this particular area. Could you all recommend potential sources to help expand upon this area? Also, is there anything else you think I can do to improve the quality of this article? Feedback about additional resources in general would really be appreciated. Thanks!Lgriffin92 (talk) 03:57, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Creation of Sex Work and Migration Page[edit]

There are currently several related articles on Wikipedia that touch upon the various issues surrounding sex work performed by migrants. Articles such as migrant worker, sex worker, prostitution, human trafficking, and subsections of articles addressing migrant sex worker populations in country-specific contexts currently exist. However, none of them specifically address the growing migrant sex worker population in many regions that have spurred debates surrounding anti-human trafficking discourse, anti-immigration efforts, and the effects of globalization on female migrants. None of these articles explicitly address the connection between migration and sex work in various national contexts, and the role globalization has played on moving bodies and sexual commerce across borders. Sex work as a specific labor sector in the larger literature of migration is significant not only for its prevalence among female migrants, but for the intense reaction state governments have had and the debates that have appeared. The literature has shown that there is something about commercial sex as a form of migrant labor that has influenced and spurred larger debates on immigration, human trafficking, and gender inequality. I believe an article that summarizes not only the characteristics of migrant sex work, but also explains the context and reactions for migrant sex work would fill in many of the missing gaps and subsections on Wikipedia. My proposed article would give an in-depth introduction to how migration and sex work have intersected to become a very influential sphere of debate for states around the world. The unique characteristics of sex work and migration make it a significant topic, and sections about its place in current debates surrounding immigration and human trafficking make it a particularly contentious and timely topic.

I would love to get any feedback or thoughts on this article, including any specific case studies, sources, or subsections you'd like to see. Some of the sections I propose include: migrant demographics and backgrounds, push factors for sex work and migration, pull factors for sex work and migration, migrant sex worker legal status (in regards to both migration status, human trafficking legislation and legalization/decriminalization of prostitution), state and NGO response, transnational migration, urban-to-rural migration, and case studies for European Union (specifically Spain, Netherlands, Denmark), Japan, and United Arab Emirates. Lillyyu (talk) 04:09, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

The article is up. Please feel free to provide edits and feedback. Migrant sex work. Lillyyu (talk) 08:24, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Featured article candidate[edit]

The article about She Has a Name, a play about a sex worker, is a current featured article candidate. If you would be willing to review the article, your comments at the discussion would be greatly appreciated. Neelix (talk) 12:56, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

2012 tour of She Has a Name[edit]

2012 tour of She Has a Name is currently up for a Good Article Nomination and the reviewer has requested an independent copyedit. If anyone who has not had previous involvement with the article would be willing to perform such a copyedit, it would be greatly appreciated. Neelix (talk) 19:07, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Nefarious: Merchant of Souls[edit]

The article about the sex trafficking documentary film Nefarious: Merchant of Souls has an ongoing featured article candidacy here. Any constructive comments you would be willing to provide there would be greatly appreciated. Neelix (talk) 15:02, 10 October 2013 (UTC)


Change of Article Name[edit]

Hello, A user has requested the name of the article Belle_de_Jour_(writer) - which comes under your Wikiproject - to be changed.
The user seems unfamiliar with wikipedia's naming policies and the name change procedure.
His reasoning behind the move seems to be in contravention of those naming policies, whilst he is claiming consensus a little too soon.
I think it would be valuable to get more input from other users.

Discussion at: [[Talk:Belle_de_Jour_(writer)#Moving_this_page_to_Brooke_Magnanti.3B_reexamining_this_issue.2C_wanting_to_move_it]

Thanks. --Rushton2010 (talk) 23:48, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Skene's Gland/Female Ejaculation/New information[edit]

I have recently been researching the Skene's gland because of recent personal experience related to this topic & have found it not only to be true, but absolutely NOT a myth because I have personally experienced this in the past year & a half at age 56. It led me to the article "Female Ejaculation" written by Dr. David Delvin Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). . The swelling of blood during sexual arousal is something that I personally have been trying to figure out because this is not a "typical" or even "normal" thing that I have ever experienced. After speaking with my doctor, have only found out that the reason for "multiple" bruising all over my body including stomach, breasts, back & arms is related to what I have learned to be "female ejaculation" & the Skene's gland.

Not only these examples but the amount of liquid coming from these glands, have been a question for me because it almost is always during sex that I have a minimum of a 1/4 cup up to as much as several cups of fluid. This has lead my partner & I to stop using towels & start using 2-3 disposable pads that become drenched every time with this fluid.

My personal advice to any women that have experienced this is to "go with the flow" because it can be the most absolute wonderful experience with a partner or without. I am sharing this information not only so that I can become more educated but for all the other woman out there, as well. Mbrooks3 (talk) 16:26, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Lexicons[edit]

A new problem just came up - someone deleted a whole section of two Prostitution by country pages, to wit Prostitution in Sweden and Prostitution in Norway. The sections were headed Prostitution in Swedish, and Prostitution in Norwegian respectively. After an editing war I mothballed them into the talk pages pending discussion. Some of the criticisms was sarcastic and inappropriate, eg it would encourage trafficking, but in a comment on my talk page - because it was "unsourced". The rationale is that much of the material I used in writing those pages used original material in the language of the country, and the words to search on seemed relevant. Now maybe the heading was wrong, the position in the article wrong - near top, but it seems to me a useful addition, for instance here is one;

Prostitution is also called "prostitution" in Swedish, however sex work is called sexarbete, and a sex worker is sexarbetare. Sexual services are sexuella tjänster, purchasing sex is sexköp, and the law banning the purchase of sex is referred to as Sexköpslagen. Amongst third party activities, pandering or procuring is koppleri. A pimp is a hallick or sutenör, although pimp is now used in Swedish slang. A brothel is a bordell, and a madam is bordellmamma.

The links are to the appropriate pages on that county's Wikipedia. The Norwegian was more comprehensive. I used the original terms in parenthesis in the articles as much as possible. Can we discuss this? If there is concensus I will restore the sections. --Michael Goodyear (talk) 18:16, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

I am one of the editors who deleted the sections, and I object to your implication that I have been edit warring. I removed the sections because the content was unencyclopedic, and IMO against WP:NOT#DICT and WP:INDISCRIMINATE. I have never seen similar sections in other articles, and I don't think that they contributed to the article. I could understand including them if there were some language-specific terms or concepts that didn't exist in English and had to be explained, but the words above can easily be translated to English. Sjö (talk) 18:59, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
The thing is: Mgoodyear has been alone against 3 other editors here, Sjö, Iselilja, and myself. There is no source for this lexicon, and the only argument that I can see Mgoodyear have made is that it is useful for his research. But that is not an argument to have this in the articles. They are now moved to the talk-pages, and I do not object to that. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 21:06, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
For clarification - edit war refers to when people repeatedly undo each other's edits, so I think that fits the definition, and usually requires resolution. A better method is discussion, from which everyone learns something. --Michael Goodyear (talk) 17:55, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
I don't quite see how a lexicon can be considered 'unencyclopedic'. No, not my research, users. Let's take an obvious example - a user comes to the page to learn more about the subject, and goes to one of the links say in Norwegian, but is not a native speaker. They can use such terms to search the document. Next they might want to search the internet or other documents. In either case if they entered 'prostitution' or 'prostitution Norway' they would get very little, but if they knew to enter prostitusjon, the unique Norwegian word, they would retrieve a vast amount of literature. --Michael Goodyear (talk) 17:55, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
I'm also looking for feedback on what would be considered acceptable 'sourcing' for translations of words. For instance in Prostitution in Sweden all words were linked to the appropriate page on the Swedish Wikipedia. --Michael Goodyear (talk) 17:55, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
And I completely forgot in the heat of the moment, to state that the idea originally came from the Norwegian Wikipedia article itself which includes a lexicon - Norske betegnelser innen prostitusjon. I hope that helps. --Michael Goodyear (talk) 00:09, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

There have been further deletions of Norwegian words from Prostitution in Norway which I am reverting pending discussion here. These were sourced and repeated deletions could be perceived as verging on vandalism. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and is supposed to be informative. To take one example - it is important the words that sex workers use. The profession is stigmatised and attracts many derogatory words. Sex workers in describing their work, try to use more positive words that are empowering, for instance they see - contrary to 19th century views - that they are contributing to sexual health and sexual education, a perspective supported by organisations such as the WHO. These conversations could of course take place in almost every country. These were all well sourced.

As for the other issue - although I do not currently have a source to confirm that 'free brothels' never happened - only that they were planned - even if they were stunts, it was a symbolic gesture - and deserves to be included - with clarification. Thanks. --Michael Goodyear (talk) 04:04, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

The issue is far greater than these two pages, or even this project. To be consistent one would need to remove foreign words from dozens of pages in this project alone, let alone across the whole of Wikipedia. It would be very difficult to discuss many topics based in non English speaking countries without the use of the local words.
The other consideration is search engines. An English speaking user coming across the word hallik, and seeking its meaning might enter it into a search engine, and would be faced with many Norwegian only pages, and be none the wiser. Yet if we elect to retain the term here, given the prioritisation of Wikipedia on search engines, the meaning of the word would be obvious immediately. --Michael Goodyear (talk) 17:49, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
I don't see any problem with the way the Norwegian terms are integrated in the article, I think it's perfectly reasonable to e.g. mention that some words are preferred by the prostitutes themselves and mention them in that context. What Huldra, Iselilja and myself objected to is a lexicon, a list of English words with their Norwegian or Swedish translation. It isn't a greater issue, since I have never seen any such section in any other article. Sjö (talk) 18:03, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Proposal to broaden/rename HIV/AIDS in the pornographic film industry[edit]

There is a discussion, Talk:HIV/AIDS in the pornographic film industry#Propose broaden scope and rename, that members of this project may be interested in. Lightbreather (talk) 23:58, 10 September 2014 (UTC)