Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains

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WikiProject Trains (Rated NA-class)
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List of EuroCity services[edit]

I've created this article, based on the list that was on the EuroCity pages, to try and make it more informative and current. It's a work in progress, so it's still incomplete and a bit messy - any contributions to completing the page would be welcome. I noticed that a number of people are creating new articles for specific TEE/EC services, so this ties neatly into that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ArtVandelay13 (talkcontribs) 16:58, 6 March 2013

It's {track gauge}, not {RailGauge} any more[edit]

FYI: The template has moved. It is {{track gauge}}, not {{RailGauge}} any more.

There is no need to edit articles for this, old template name will be supported (forever). It's just that you'll see the new name in documentation and in talkpages. See this {TG] talk about the Move. -DePiep (talk) 21:32, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

  • Sorry to bother you again, but please note:
Today {{Track gauge}}, {{RailGauge}} requires the unit to be added:
write {{Track gauge|30 in}} not {{Track gauge|30}} (30-what?) any more.
-DePiep (talk) 20:13, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Category naming[edit]

About the maintenance Category:Articles that mention a specific rail gauge subcategories. See this talk for new category naming options. -DePiep (talk) 18:32, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

How did we end up with the "Stations along X Railroad lines" categories?[edit]

I was trying to sort out some of the categorization mess of the various Silver Spring, MD stations and discovered Stations along Baltimore and Ohio Railroad lines. This does not, to me, make a great deal of sense as a categorization structure. The various new MARC stations, for example, have no historical connection with the B&O even if some of them are roughly where trains may have stopped in the past. Potentially some of the DC Metro Green Line stations qualify even though they don't serve railroad passengers at all. There are also a few towns on lines where there is no passenger service now and where there used to be a station. I believe there are a couple of stations on other railroad's lines which also served B&O trains.

Can anyone explain why we have this instead of the more obvious Category:Baltimore and Ohio Railroad stations? I cannot come up with a decent justification for the current criterion. Mangoe (talk) 01:16, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Actually, since the more modern stations aren't B&O stations, that category would be inappropriate. The use of Category:Stations along Baltimore and Ohio Railroad lines makes much more sense, because those are the lines they're built along, even if they didn't exist during the heyday of the B&O. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 02:01, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
I think the category you want is Category:Former Baltimore and Ohio Railroad stations, and I agree that it makes more sense than the "along X lines", which doesn't give a sense of original ownership. This would have the side benefit of matching the categorization scheme on commons. To be clear, I don't think we should have both sets of categories. Anything in "Former X stations" would be in "Stations along X lines" (with a few exceptions), and the new stations along historical routes really don't need to be so categorized. Mackensen (talk) 02:35, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
That seems like it would invalidate Category:Staten Island Railway stations and Category:IND Rockaway Line stations. Consider Edgewood (MARC station), which is a MARC station along a Philadelphia, Baltimore and Washington Railroad line. It's not a PB&W station. Additionally, Frederick (MARC station) isn't a real B&O station, like the commons:Category:Frederick Baltimore and Ohio Railroad Station in that city's historic district. It's an imitation. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 12:35, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
To be clear, I don't think the "along X lines" scheme is useful and I would deprecate it in favor of "Former X stations". If Category:Staten Island Railway stations and Category:IND Rockaway Line stations don't actually contain what they claim to contain then they need to be renamed or refactored. I would expect Category:Staten Island Railway stations to contain stations served by the Staten Island Railway. If it contains anything else then it needs to be renamed. The IND Rockaway Line is a physical railway line, not a company, akin to the Northeast Corridor. It seems appropriate to categorize stations based on a physical line (see, for example, commons:Category:Stations on the Northeast Corridor). An equivalent scheme here might be Category:Metropolitan Subdivision, which is a physical line that former B&O stations are on. Mackensen (talk) 13:04, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, but the IND Rockaway Line stations are made up of Former Long Island Rail Road stations, and Staten Island Railway stations are also Former Baltimore and Ohio Railroad stations. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 14:22, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
Why is that a problem? Any former B&O station on the SIR could have that category added. Mackensen (talk) 20:52, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
Well, with so many of them, they should keep the category they have. Plus, the still unbuilt Arthur Kill (Staten Island Railway station) has nothing to do with the B&O. I'd rather just see Staten Island Railway categorized as Companies affiliated with the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad (in fact, I'm going to remove a category from that). ---------User:DanTD (talk) 22:52, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Okay, let's look at another example; When I originally created Category:Stations along Lehigh Valley Railroad lines, I originally created it as Category:Former Lehigh Valley Railroad stations, but I realized these were strictly New Jersey Transit stations built along those lines, so I renamed the category. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 23:06, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

I don't understand this. Why does the NJT use of various ex-LVRR stations impact categorization? If the station is a former LVRR station, then it gets placed in Category:Former Lehigh Valley Railroad stations. If it's a new-build station not connected to the LVRR, then it doesn't. Same with Arthur Kill (Staten Island Railway station). Right now tt's categorized into Category:Staten Island Railway stations. That's exactly right. No further categories needed. To take two more examples, Roselle Park (NJT station) (built 1967) would be placed into Category:Former Central Railroad of New Jersey stations, while Union (NJT station) (built 2003) would not be placed in any former categories at all, since it originates with NJT. Mackensen (talk) 23:20, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
They weren't ex-LVRR stations. They were just NJT stations that were built on a former LVRR line. And for the record, Roselle Park (NJT station) was neither a former CNJ station, nor built along a CNJ-line, because it was built east of the Aldene Connection (see the map). ---------User:DanTD (talk) 23:38, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
That's my point. I know they weren't LVRR stations. Hence having them in an LVRR category is potentially confusing. Also, if Roselle Park wasn't a CNJ station, what was it? My takeaway from reading the article was that it was CNJ. I think it really would be best if stations were categorized based on past owners, regardless of whose line they abut. A secondary concern of mine is that the existing scheme essentially "freezes" the US railroad network at a given point (1960–1970) for a categorization scheme. Mackensen (talk) 01:51, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
In no way should Union (NJT station) have a category that says Lehigh Valley Railroad on it. Not just because it was actually built by NJT, not the LVRR, but because by the time it was built, the LVRR had been gone for decades and is irrelevant. Being along a former line of this-or-that defunct for decades railroad is not defining, and is overcategorization. Yes the former ownership of the line is defining for the line, but not for the station. That the station is in the category for stations along that line is sufficient.
And there's the inevitable question of which former owners to list, too. It may seem obvious to list, say, the CNJ for Raritan Valley Line stations, but what about something on the Bergen County Line? Do we list the Erie, or the Erie Lackawana? Or Conrail? Or do we go back all the way to when it was the independent Bergen County Railroad? As Mack says, we can't treat the era just before the state got involved as the default.
There's also a matter of triviality here. Many of these now defunct railroads stretched across many states, often as far west as Chicago, which itself has extensive commuter rail, some of it new services started up in the last decade or so. One plan is for a new service along CSX owned tracks. That those stations would be in the same category as ones in the Baltimore–Washington area because they're both along lines that happen to be owned by CSX is a trivial connection, when neither were actually built by the same company. I think we can drop these cats. oknazevad (talk) 12:48, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
Why can't we just have two train categories for each of these articles: the current company that the station is operated by, and the former, defunct company? Epicgenius (talk) 17:48, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
That's what we do for UK stations: e.g. Oxford railway station is in Category:Former Great Western Railway stations (the pre-1948 company) and also Category:Railway stations served by Chiltern Railways Category:Railway stations served by CrossCountry Category:Railway stations served by First Great Western (the present-day operators of services from the station). --Redrose64 (talk) 17:53, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
I really don't see any difference between what you're doing in the UK and what we do here. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 01:01, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
It's a legitimate thing to include stations in categories for former operating companies. The problem with these cats is they include stations built long after the defunct company went ou of business, and so have no actual connection. The LVRR never had anything to do with Union (NJT station), so putting it in that category would be simply incorrect. If a modern RVL station dates back to the CNJ days, then including it in the categories for CNJ stations and NJT stations is fine, but no station built after the CNJ went out of business should be in any category with "Central Railroad of New Jersey" in its name, as those stations have nothing to do with that defunct railroad. oknazevad (talk) 18:43, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
For such cases, like Bristol Parkway railway station built on an ex-Great Western Railway line, we would not put them in Category:Former Great Western Railway stations but in Category:Railway stations opened by British Rail instead. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:39, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
I see now. A station on a line operated by a defunct company doesn't belong in the category of the former company's stations if the station was built after the company no longer ran the line. Epicgenius (talk) 21:27, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Wow! This seems like a gross case of overcategorizing, if you have to try and contrive all these suggested options. Delete the damn thing! Secondarywaltz (talk) 23:48, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
It's not overcategorizing. If a station on a line is built after the company that formerly operated that line is dead, it shouldn't be listed in that company's category of railway stations. Epicgenius (talk) 21:27, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Agree with renaming the categories to "Former X stations". Has a consensus been reached here? The next step is to take this to Cfd, where consensus there would need to be reached as well. There are 45 categories with the naming scheme "Stations along X line", most of which are also within Category:Railway stations in the United States by company - so this should be the parent category brought to Cfd. --Scott Alter (talk) 00:33, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

I have to disagree with the proposal, although I would like to remove Category:New Jersey Transit Rail Operations from Category:Stations along Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad lines and Category:Stations along Central Railroad of New Jersey lines. Those railroads pre-date NJT and not all former Lackawanna or Jersey Central stations are owned by New Jersey Transit. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 01:01, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

UPDATE - Tonight I created the Category:Stations along St. Louis–San Francisco Railway lines, however I certainly considered names like Category:Former St. Louis–San Francisco Railway stations, and even something like Category:Former Frisco Railway depots. One other thing I'd like to do is split off another section of Category:Stations along New York Central Railroad lines onto another former affiliate or predecessor... maybe for the Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad. My previous considerations were NYC stations in New York State and affiliates like the West Shore Railroad, but there are too many for the former and not enough for the latter. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 00:58, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Beijing Suburban Railway templates[edit]

Hi WikiProject Trains. Should {{Beijing Suburban Railway}}, {{Beijing Suburban Railway lines}} and {{Beijing Suburban Railway stations}} be in Category:Beijing Subway templates (where {{Beijing Suburban Railway}} is currently located), or should they be in a separate category, i.e. Category:Beijing Suburban Railway templates? My guess is that they should be in a separate category, but I thought I'd check. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 11:51, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Infill station[edit]

I just upgraded Infill station from a redirect to an article. More eyes would be welcome, in particular, adding non-US examples.--agr (talk) 16:53, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

  • I've added some UK examples off the top of my head. I haven't got time atm to add references though. Thryduulf (talk) 18:36, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

RfC notification[edit]

See Talk:Boxcar#RfC: Merge Covered goods wagon article into Boxcar -- PBS (talk) 10:50, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

McCloud River Railroad engine #25 article[edit]

Just an addition to the article on McCloud River Railroad engine #25. It is now in excursion service out of Garibaldi, Oregon.

64.134.134.135 (talk) 02:29, 14 September 2014 (UTC)steveberdrow@aol.com

What should go in the 'Route' box?[edit]

Please see Template talk:Rail line#What should go in the 'Route' box?. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:58, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

CFD for "airport railway station" categories[edit]

I only found this one today, but the airport railway station category list is under discussion for renaming. Please join the discussion. Thanks! Slambo (Speak) 15:15, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

"City of" redirects[edit]

I haven't checked them all, but the "City of X" articles in general seem to redirect to the city itself instead of the corresponding train article. In the most questionable case, City of New Orleans redirects to New Orleans even though there is City of New Orleans (disambiguation) which kits the city, the train, the song, and a couple of other items. I was pondering asking at RFD to repoint som or all of these to the train articles, but I thought I'd better get some opinions here before going to that much trouble. Mangoe (talk) 20:22, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

They were all moved from the train articles, following a discussion a year or two back. It took me weeks to work out which links to City of New Orleans (etc.) were intended to be the train service, or the settlement. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:42, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Found them: Talk:City of Los Angeles (train)#Requested move and Talk:City of New Orleans (train)#Proposed move. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:47, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Tibbetts Rd New York City Subway[edit]

Just found Tibbetts Rd New York City Subway. I have no idea if it is notable or even at the correct name. CBWeather, Talk, Seal meat for supper? 07:40, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

This has got to be a hoax. Tibbetts Road is a residential street in Yonkers, and the closest subway station to that is Van Cortlandt Park – 242nd Street (IRT Broadway – Seventh Avenue Line). No evidence exists of an extension of the IRT Broadway - Seventh Avenue Line into Yonkers, and there's no possible way Amtrak could reach that part of Yonkers. The closest thing to anything railroad related there is the former New York and Putnam Railroad, and there was a Lincoln (NYC station) nearby on McLean Avenue. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 12:05, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I've deleted it as such. CBWeather, Talk, Seal meat for supper? 12:14, 21 September 2014 (UTC)