Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Typography/Archive 1

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Dates

Hi - one thing that was useful about Bank_Gothic and not about Andalé_Mono that the former article contains the year it was created. Folks who study or practice graphic design and its history would find this really useful, especially if there was an index page of fonts and type by year. Sorry, new to wikipedia editing, if this ain't the right place for this, my apologies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.98.198.151 (talk) 23:12, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

License information and other legal aspects

The typography-related articles could use more information on licensing and other legal aspects of typography. For example the typeface article says "Many western countries extend copyright protection to typeface designs.", but doesn't name a single country which does so, and list of typefaces, unlike many other software-related lists, contains no licensing information. I have proposed the addition of a license parameter to the font infobox template at Template talk:Infobox font. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 23:35, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I'm new to Wikipedia. For purposes of full disclosure, I work for a law firm that represents a typeface foundry. As such, I know a great deal about the legal protections related to typefaces (at least in the US) and would be willing to help out as suggested above. I could either write an article on legal issues related to typefaces or add/clean up information in already created articles. I would also like to clean up some of the typeface related articles to reflect accurate ownership information. Unfortunately I'm not yet comfortable with the proper formating for articles so I would probably need some help in that regard. Let me know if anyone is interested. --StackLaw (talk) 18:41, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
I would like to see an article on legal protections related to typefaces. I have believed for many years that typefaces were not subject to copyright in the United States, so if I am wrong about that I would greatly appreciate being corrected. (I do know that names of typefaces can be trademarked.) Probably the cleanups you suggest would be even more valuable, because they would avoid spreading inaccurate information. I am certainly not an expert on Wiki formatting, but I would be happy to help you and answer your questions. You can e-mail me at John_Sauter@systemeyescomputerstore.com. John Sauter (talk) 17:49, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Article importance criteria

I think we should establish an importance scale for the article assessment. I suppose it is clear, which articles are of "top" importance, but what is of "high", "mid", and "low" importance? Please make suggestions!

I think that most of the articles on typefaces are of "low", articles on key persons of "high" importance to the project.

What do you think? Kind regards, — Tirk· “…” 13:24, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Shortcut already in use

The shortcuts WP:Typo and WP:TYPO are already in use by the Wikipedia:Typo team. We need a new one! Suggestions? — Tirk· “…” 12:57, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I created the shortcut WP:TYP. — Tirk· “…”07:25, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

woo, a wikiproject!

This is great. I've been putting general comments at Category talk:Typefaces, but this is a much better solution. ⇔ ChristTrekker 16:17, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Stubs

Hi all, I'm excited about taking part. One question: I'm going through the stub list Category:Typography_stubs and there are quite a few font entries where I'm not sure that any more detail *can* be added -- Century Gothic, for example. Am I suffering from lack of imagination, or are some of these font pages more or less complete? Should they still be marked as stubs?

Thanks for joining us! It doesn't matter if there can be more info or not: a stub is a stub–even if the article is complete! ;-) Kind regards, — Tirk· “…” 07:45, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Uniform names for articles on numbers in different languages

The following articles do not cover any pure numeral system where the symbols and notations are clearly defined, instead they cover how numbers are used in the respective languages. I have proposed all of them be moved. Please discuss HERE.

Thank you. --Voidvector (talk) 07:45, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Typography

Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Wikipedia: Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 22:49, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Infobox Images

While going though and tagging some pages i noticed their infoxbox images where differnt from most others, should they be changed? for example NPS Rawlinson Roadway & Windsor (typeface). Peachey88 (Talk Page | Contribs) 03:15, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

It would be better, if all images in the infoboxes have the same appearance. If you can change the images, which does not fit the comon (?) scheme, please change them! Kind regards, — Tirk· “…” 08:06, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Why does the image for the Chandas font infobox show only Latin glyphs when it is principally a Devanagri typeface? Chris Fynn (talk) 15:34, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Unicode tables

Moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Typography/Unicode#Initial discussion.

Antiqua, Blackletter, Gaelic and the Typography terms Template

I added Gaelic to the template. It was reverted, then I restored it giving some discussion on the talk page. this shouldn't be controversial, but I ought to mention it here. -- Evertype· 20:32, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

It is evidently a wee bit controversial. May I ask people to have a look at the template? -- Evertype· 17:48, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

TeX

I don't find the word TeX anywhere on this WikiProject's page. TeX is the typesetting system invented by Donald Knuth. Wikipedia relies very extensively upon a stripped-down version of TeX for such things as this:

 \lim_{\lambda\to 0} \lim_{\Lambda\to\infty} \left( \sum_{n=0}^\Lambda n^3 e^{-\lambda n} - \int_0^\Lambda x^3 e^{-\lambda x}\,dx  \right) = \frac{1}{120}.

At Wikipedia:Manual of Style (mathematics), various typographical style issues are dealt with. For example, should one write f(x) or ƒ(x)? Should TeX be used only when "displayed" or should it also be set "inline"? (That question doesn't arise when TeX is used in the standard way rather than the stripped-down way used by Wikipedia.) When should \scriptstyle be used? Should an editor change this:

 \sqrt{2\pi l\,}

to this?:

 \sqrt{2\pi \ell\,}

Why do Wikipedia conventions forbid writing such things as σ², in favor of σ2, or maybe σ 2, while prescribing this: 24 km²? (Rhetorical question; I know the answer to that one.)

Would members of this project consider these matters to be within its scope? Michael Hardy (talk) 19:02, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure, how this WikiProject should work on formulas typeset using TeX. As you already mentioned, there are already a lot of rules on how math should be represented on WP. As far as I know, there is no general consensus on typesetting in the science scene. Each journal uses its own style. There are some styles that are more widely used (e. g. IUPAC, WHO, or ACS in chemistry), but there are great regional differences too (mainly regarding the spaces). — Tirk· “…” 11:23, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Coordinators' working group

Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. — Delievered by §hepBot (Disable) on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 06:50, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Debate over hyphens vs en-dashes at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style

Hopefully somebody here can provide some insight on the debate going on regarding hyphenation of "Ural-Altaic languages" over at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#en dashes vs hyphens. --Wulf (talk) 04:26, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Debate has moved to Talk:Ural-Altaic languages#Requested move. —Wulf (talk) 20:20, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Article alerts

This is a notice to let you know about Article alerts, a fully-automated subscription-based news delivery system designed to notify WikiProjects and Taskforces when articles are entering Articles for deletion, Requests for comment, Peer review and other workflows (full list). The reports are updated on a daily basis, and provide brief summaries of what happened, with relevant links to discussion or results when possible. A certain degree of customization is available; WikiProjects and Taskforces can choose which workflows to include, have individual reports generated for each workflow, have deletion discussion transcluded on the reports, and so on. An example of a customized report can be found here.

If you are already subscribed to Article Alerts, it is now easier to report bugs and request new features. We are also in the process of implementing a "news system", which would let projects know about ongoing discussions on a wikipedia-wide level, and other things of interest. The developers also note that some subscribing WikiProjects and Taskforces use the display=none parameter, but forget to give a link to their alert page. Your alert page should be located at "Wikipedia:PROJECT-OR-TASKFORCE-HOMEPAGE/Article alerts". Questions and feedback should be left at Wikipedia talk:Article alerts.

Message sent by User:Addbot to all active wiki projects per request, Comments on the message and bot are welcome here.

Thanks. — Headbomb {ταλκκοντριβς – WP Physics} 09:47, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)

Help in new article

I have created this article, but I need help with one reference: [1]
The problem is that in that reference, it says that the publisher of the font is Adobe and/or Monotype, and the copyright is for Monotype classic fonts, so I don`t know which to put in the infobox for the owner or holder of the font. Correct me If I made any mistakes in the article --Woglinde 02 (talk) 20:56, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
This is an alternate account, so if you`re going to reply in my talk page, please make it in my original one.

Wikipedia layout: heading hierarchies

Are members interested in Wikipedia page layout? There is a discussion at the 'Village Pump' on heading hierarchies (the ordering of headings on a Wikipedia page) and the redesigning of pages by automatic bot scripts, see here. So far, no-one has approached this issue from a designer/typographer's point of view and comments would be welcome. --Kleinzach 04:05, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Articles for Deletion

I have added five entries under Articles for Deletion. I oppose these deletions. Am I formatting these entries correctly? Am I following the correct procedure in placing these entries there? Any other comments? --DThomsen8 (talk) 14:01, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Are there enough articles on this subject to justify an Outline of typography?

Here's a discussion about subject development you might find interesting.

The Transhumanist 23:47, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I created the draft about a month ago, although I have nearly no knowledge about typography I think it is worthy of an outline. Do with it as you please, if you're interested the rough guidelines are at WP:OUTLINE along with some helpful tips. Feel free to contact me or the WP:OOK with any questions. Minnecologies (talk) 02:40, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Northwest Parkway

Davemeistermoab (talk · contribs) referred me here. I'm making the shield for the infobox yet to be added in the article Northwest Parkway and uploading it under fair use. The official website is here. There is a picture of the shield located at the upper-left corner of the site that has the word "PARKWAY". Can anybody here be able to tell me the font that they're using? Gill Giller Gillerger (talk) 02:16, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

wikt:versal

I could not find the book typography/graphic design term "versal": distinguished initial letter of a chapter or section. I don't know that it is important, but I would have thought that it would come up in a discussion of the quaint art of book design. DCDuring (talk) 15:19, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

I created Category:Wikipedians interested in typography

Please add yourselves to it if you fancy. Pcap ping 16:46, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Typeface screenshot

Is it ok to take a screenshot of a typeface to place it here in wikipedia on an article or list in which such image is absent? - Damërung . -- 01:45, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

A somewhat late reply, but no, as far as I know it is not ok to use screenshots of typefaces on Wikipedia. You will need a license to use a typeface to make a sample image. Typehigh (talk) 17:20, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Invitation for the Typeface collaboration

Crystal xedit.png
Requesting editors' help

There is currently an oppened collaboration which aims in improving articles related to typefaces and font categorization. If you´re interested in this subject, please visit the collaboration page, add your self and see how you can help.

- Damërung . -- 20:17, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Figure types

Both Titling figures and Lining figures are redirecting to Text figures. This is not right, since they are opposite things. There are also old discussions in Talk:Text figures about the naming of the articles (i.e. is it text figures, or should it be called Old-style figures, etc.) Please take a look at that and add your two cents, so we can finally deal with it. I also added a point in there about the titling/lining redirect issue, but that discussion is best held here for convenience's sake.

To summarize, either:

  1. ...we make the existing article about all figure styles, and give it a more general name (and let the redirects in place);
  2. ...or there need to be separate articles about every style, i.e. old-style, lining/titling figures, etc;

There is something to say for both approaches. What do you guys think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Typehigh (talkcontribs) 15:44, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Blambot

Blambot is being challenged as not notable. Please take a look and help decide whether this article is notable. I think it is notable. --DThomsen8 (talk) 00:38, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

It just needs to be rewritten, this time with references and some external links. It doesn't have these things, that's why it was challenged. Typehigh (talk) 05:03, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
Being tagged as not notable often means that other editors improve the article with inline citations and other information. I hope that happens for Blambot. --DThomsen8 (talk) 23:08, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

M+ Fonts

Please take a look at M+ Fonts and improve it if you can. This article has a notability template. --DThomsen8 (talk) 23:05, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Digifold

Can someone take a look at this AfD and see if the product is notable. It seems printing related, but I have no idea on the reliability of trade publications in that area. Pcap ping 14:42, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement

This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. — Carl (CBM · talk) 04:05, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Tools to help your project with unreferenced Biographies of living people

List of cleanup articles for your project

If you don't already have this and are interested in creating a list of articles which need cleanup for your wikiproject see: Cleanup listings A list of examples is here

Moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation pages"

If you are interested in moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation page", contact me, User talk:Ikip

Watchlisting all unreferenced articles

If you are interested in watchlisting all of the unreferenced articles once you install Cleanup_listings, contact me, User talk:Ikip

Ikip 02:04, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Design portal

Hi guys! We just opened the Design portal for business and would appreciate if you could put a link to it in the 'Related portals' section of your Typography portal. Thanks in advance! --AlainR345Techno-Wiki-Geek 05:07, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

monofur deletion

The article for monofur is up for deletion.GJo (talk) 19:35, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Stephenson Blake

The Stephenson Blake article is actually two articles, one about a now defunct type foundry, and one about a brass welding company which also has a glass gauge manufacturing division. This is very peculiar, but I don't know what to do about it, so I am posting this notice. Please take a look at this situation. I added the Brass welding section to emphasize the two sections. --DThomsen8 (talk) 02:00, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Typeface for Fox News and CNN?

I notice that Fox News Channel and CNN use the same typeface on their programs. What is it? Curvebill (talk) 16:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Is it the same font on their web sites? If so, it should be fairly easy to determine the typeface from the HTML. --DThomsen8 (talk) 19:07, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
If you have an image/screenshot, I've had past success with http://new.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/ an online identifier. -- Quiddity (talk) 20:01, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

I do. Just watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWs12ccbOiE At 2:17, the typeface appears at the lower third. It's below "Glenn Beck Program."

Computer code and Wikipedia typographic style

Coverage of bold, underline, strikethrough, and that ilk should be more systematic.

Bold includes no section on computer coding for bold text.

Underline includes section "Use with computer". In part:

The HTML special inline element <ins>, denoting inserted text, is often presented as underlined text. HTML also has a presentational element <u>, denoting underlined text; this is deprecated in favour of the CSS style {text-decoration: underline}.

Neither the section nor the article shows an example of underline text (whether composed with u or with ins, its underline appearance would not be universal). The section does say presentational element u is deprecated, by whom and for what purpose? For example, is it deprecated for use in English wikipedia?

Strikethrough includes section "Computer uses". In part:

The HTML special inline element for strikethrough is <strike> or <s>[1]. The BB Code for it is [s]. Using cascading style sheets (css) it would be <span style="text-decoration:line-through;">ABCDEF</span>

(That one lacks a final punctuation mark.) The section does not mention the special inline element del, denoting deleted text, which is often presented as strikethrough text. The article lead shows an example of strikethrough text (composed with del, its strikethrough appearance must not be universal). The section does not mention the inline element del and does not cover the deprecation of strike for use in English wikipedia or elsewhere.

--P64 (talk) 18:02, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


If you think the article(s) are missing coverage of these things, then feel free to add them? :) Typehigh (talk) 16:16, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Catull price?

Catull says that "It currently costs upwards of $99.00." I have never seen a font price in a typeface article before. If no one objects, I will remove this message after leaving this notice here for objections. --DThomsen8 (talk) 19:06, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Richard Lipton or Richard J. Lipton

Are type designer Richard Lipton and computer scientist Richard J. Lipton separate people (as I suspect) or are they the same person? Richard Lipton designed numerous typefaces, including SchoolBook and others. --DThomsen8 (talk) 21:10, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Name for pseudo-foreign fonts using non-Roman characters to depict English?

Is there a context for Faux Cyrillic? I realize there are many other such fonts, but what if anything would a fontographer or typologist call them? Шизомби (talk) 05:54, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Dude, there is no such vocation or profession as a "fontographer". I've never heard of a "typologist" either. "Fontographer" is the name of a well-known font editing application. A person who designs typefaces is known as "type designer" or "typeface designer". A person who makes fonts (not the same process as typeface design), is known as a "font maker". Most type designers are also active font makers. Like myself for example. I've been designing typefaces and making numerous fonts of each face since 2003.
Please stop using the term "fontographer" in reference to type designers. It pisses off professional type designers and gives Wikipedians working on typography articles a bad name. Arbo talk 09:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
See Samples of simulation typefaces for more examples. --DThomsen8 (talk) 07:47, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, what references exist for it though? Шизомби (talk) 15:00, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Good question. Lithos and Papyrus (typeface) are faux fonts described and referenced in their articles. Skia (typeface) has a stub article. The other samples do not have articles, but they should have. My intention is to provide information, and encourage others to improve the page by adding specimens and creating the red link articles. --DThomsen8 (talk) 16:29, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
The Wikipedia:Typeface list collaboration was improving the coverage of typefaces and typeface lists through most of 2009, but recently seems to have slowed its efforts. I was very active in that collaboration, but I have done very little recently. Perhaps the collaboration can do some of the improvements I am mentioning above in my first answer to you. --DThomsen8 (talk) 16:33, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
It can be risky to create lots of articles and leave it to others to source them though, as the Faux Cyrillic AfD suggests. Though sources would be needed for individual fonts, finding some sources covering the simulation typeface topic generally would also help, I think. Шизомби (talk) 19:18, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Request for comment on Biographies of living people

Hello Wikiproject! Currently there is a discussion which will decide whether wikipedia will delete 49,000 articles about a living person without references, here:

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Biographies of living people

Since biographies of living people covers so many topics, nearly all wikiproject topics will be effected.

The two opposing positions which have the most support is:

  1. supports the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, User:Jehochman
  2. opposes the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, except in limited circumstances, User:Collect

Comments are welcome. Keep in mind that by default, editor's comments are hidden. Simply press edit next to the section to add your comment.

Please keep in mind that at this point, it seems that editors support deleting unreferenced article if they are not sourced, so your project may want to pursue the projects below.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ikip (talkcontribs) 03:04, 26 Jan 2010 (UTC)

Jack Yan

Claims to be a notable typeface designer from New Zeeland. Rather dubious, so at AfD now. Pcap ping 00:34, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Jack Yan is not a notable typeface designer. He has never laid a hand on mouse or trackball to operate a font editing application. He tells some graphic designer employees of his what he wants them to draw with software, and has them do all the work of drawing and solving all the design problems involved in creating and designing a typeface and its fonts. As a professional typeface designer myself, Yan's involvement in type design and font production does not qualify him as a typeface designer. Not even close. Arbo talk 09:20, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Help needed with formatting text

I am proofreading 19th century text and there is a requirement for under-bracing two lines of text SHOWN HERE. I managed to format it using TeX but need to reduce the font size to approximate THE FORMULA IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS PAGE. Is this possible to do with Tex? If yes, can someone help me by a relevant example? Thanks. Ineuw talk page on en.ws 02:06, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Identifying a font

I am trying to recreate an image as a vector graphic for use in WP:USRD. Are there any users in this project who can help me identify the font for the word byway? Any help is appreciated and can be taken to my talk page. Thanks! –Fredddie 00:04, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

http://new.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/ sometimes works well. You have to crop the image of all non-letters, and if the letters are touching, separate them slightly.
Cropped and tweaked and examined: http://new.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/results?ch[0]=B&ch[1]=Y&ch[2]=W&ch[3]=A&ch[4]=Y&wtfserver=node4.ric.mf&id=00000ee64c72da8500066ad500002c99&glyphcount=5&imageid=0
Inconclusive. The top of the A makes it easy to reject most. The middle of the W is the other key.
That's all I can do. Maybe someone else here can identify by sight. -- Quiddity (talk) 05:37, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
That's kinda what I was doing with my font book, but I'll give it a shot. Thanks! –Fredddie 21:32, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Mishy-phen

The article titled mishy-phen is a complete orphan: no other articles link to it. Help if you can. Michael Hardy (talk) 21:40, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Um.... OK, one other article links to it. Michael Hardy (talk) 21:59, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
I'm not convinced that it is a suitable subject for an article. You are unlikely to find anything that can be linked to it as hardly anyone uses the term.  pablo 09:46, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Typography articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release

Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the Typography articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!

For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 23:45, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Typography mentioned at howtogeek.com

I thought members might be interested in this article at howtogeek.com (I'm a regular reader). The project gets a mention in the article credits :) EyeSerenetalk 16:31, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

merger proposal

There is a proposed merge of Interline spacing to Leading at Leading#Merger proposal  pablo 16:06, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

file:Japanesefont.png

image:Japanesefont.png has been nominated for deletion. 65.94.45.238 (talk) 05:58, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

cursive feature

dear guys,

currently i am working on a new arabic font. i used the cursive feature. i tested my font with illustrator cs3 me windows and the test was great but the test with indesign cs3 me / windows was a failure ( windows vista ). and the cursive feature did not work with the illustrator / indesign cs5 me / apple mac os 10.5.8 .

i really appreciate any feedback regarding this matter.

thanks,

joe hatem —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.94.32.30 (talk) 23:50, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Citation templates now support more identifiers

Recent changes were made to citations templates (such as {{citation}}, {{cite journal}}, {{cite web}}...). In addition to what was previously supported (bibcode, doi, jstor, isbn, ...), templates now support arXiv, ASIN, JFM, LCCN, MR, OL, OSTI, RFC, SSRN and Zbl. Before, you needed to place |id={{arxiv|0123.4567}} (or worse |url=http://arxiv.org/abs/0123.4567), now you can simply use |arxiv=0123.4567, likewise for |id={{JSTOR|0123456789}} and |url=http://www.jstor.org/stable/0123456789|jstor=0123456789.

The full list of supported identifiers is given here (with dummy values):


{{cite journal |author=John Smith |year=2000 |title=How to Put Things into Other Things |journal=Journal of Foobar |volume=1 |issue=2 |pages=3–4 |arxiv=0123456789 |asin=0123456789 |bibcode=0123456789 |doi=0123456789 |jfm=0123456789 |jstor=0123456789 |lccn=0123456789 |isbn=0123456789 |issn=0123456789 |mr=0123456789 |oclc=0123456789 |ol=0123456789 |osti=0123456789 |rfc=0123456789 |pmc=0123456789 |pmid=0123456789 |ssrn=0123456789 |zbl=0123456789 |id={{para|id|____}} }}

Obviously not all citations needs all parameters, but this streamlines the most popular ones and gives both better metadata and better appearances when printed. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 03:26, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Faux "foreign alphabet" in other alphabets?

Please see Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous#Faux "foreign alphabet" in other alphabets? (permanent link here).
Wavelength (talk) 21:11, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Small or capital letter within the copyright symbols?

Corresponding to Enclosed C the correct letter within the circle of the copyright symbol © (U+00A9) is a small and not a capital letter. Three little questions to this:

  1. Is there any official page where this can be verified?
  2. So the correct writing without this symbol is (c) and not (C)?
  3. What about the correct phonogram symbol ℗ (U+2117)?

--ζ 13:14, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

The information wasn't correct. The circled "C" is also a capital letter like the "R" in ® or the "P" in ℗. Found it in the references to copyright.gov on www.ehow.com/how_7581693_word-copyright-statement.html
Corrected the article. --ζ 06:08, 20 April 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zwiebelleder (talkcontribs)

Spaces in "q · p" and no space in "·p"

This is a question relevant mainly to mathematics, but modern mathematicians do not care because such things are made by TeX today.

It is well known that unary operator notation does not require a space, like "·p" with arbitrary symbol instead of the middle dot. But binary infix notation usually requires a spacing noticeable at the first look, like "q · p". As demonstrated by <math> PNG output:

(q+p)\ \ \ (q-p)\ \ \ (q\cdot p)\ \ \ (q*p)\ \ \ (q\and p)\ \ \ (q\vee p)\ etc. compared to (-p)\ \ \ (\cdot p)\ \ \ (*p)\ \ \ (\neg p)\ .

It is so evident that cannot be easily found in various HowTos and style guides online. Could somebody add a reference, for example, for the additive inverse article? Incnis Mrsi (talk) 10:17, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

RfC on WikiProject home for Unicode pages

There is a Request for Comment at the Writing Systems WikiProject on the home for articles and templates concerning the Unicode Standard / ISO/IEC 10646. As the main article on Unicode is tagged as part of the Typography WikiProject, we request the input of all members of this WikiProject and all other interested parties to participate in the RfC. VanIsaacWScontribs 08:22, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Selectable 'slinky' text for adverse reading (or writing? ) conditions.

Also refer to 'Talk:Speed reading' page for additional info. on this idea. (also boustrophedon). Maybe Wikipedia could implement a simple feature where a block of text could be presented on screen with every second line right-to-left upside down, somewhat operating as word wrap. If Wikipedia doesn't already have such a feature, perhaps approach Apple or Microsoft to have it as a menu selectable feature that train commuters etc. may gradually accept (over decades?). Now may be a good time to trial it as newspapers continue to push the 'newspaper format' over to tablet devices. Idea is to have the selected text dynamically adjust according to page width. Documents , such as, emails would automatically exclude address fields and bulleted lists ( and adjust for word break-up so that complete words are always presented). When this feature is active, you could have the text augmented specifically to assist right-to-left reading ( in shape, shading, colour, serif and so on ). Some university may have some research data and could run trials. SignedJohnsonL623 (talk) 00:15, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:HighBeam

Wikipedia:HighBeam describes a limited opportunity for Wikipedia editors to have access to HighBeam Research.
Wavelength (talk) 16:13, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

xdvi

I've created a new article titled xdvi. It's still quite stubby. Have fun improving and extending it. Michael Hardy (talk) 16:55, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

history

I would like to see something on the history of this symbol. When was it first used for instance? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.80.248.22 (talk) 12:12, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

I mean the registered trademark symbol. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.80.248.22 (talk) 12:25, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Redirects from unicode characters

At Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2012 October 20#14,000 Unicode characters redirects from single Unicode characters to several target articles have been proposed for deletion. Your comments in the linked discussion would be welcome. Thryduulf (talk) 21:43, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Nominated for deletion

Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion#Template:Logical_symbols

The recently created template Template:Logical symbols, has been nominated for deletion. This may eventually have an impact on the punctuation template, so I thought I would post this here.Greg Bard (talk) 15:24, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't see any potential impact, nor relevance to this Wikiproject. But Greg sees a number of things I don't, and many things which aren't actually there. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 17:27, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Please Arthur, please do educate. What exactly am I seeing that "isn't there?" Please, refrain from the snark. I just want to make sure I understand you perfectly clearly. I am seeing things that aren't there, and you don't see how the deletion of a template for logical symbols would be relevant to the Typography project, correct? Greg Bard (talk) 18:05, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Letterpress printing is included here, right?

Before I make too many mistakes by tagging left and right for this project as part of my general push to improve the coverage of letterpress printing, I take it that letterpress printing is included under the scope of this project, right? I see that "printing" is mentioned in the lead of the main page. Given that letterpress was traditionally (in the pre-digital era) called "typography", and that typography, typesetting, typefounding, etc. are all essential to letterpress, I hope I have made the right move to find them a WikiProject good home. I may even enlist here myself. If I am in error, please let me know. Morgan Riley (talk) 23:47, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Letterpress printing, continued

I have been writing some small articles about letterpress in the Danish Wikipedia and been editing a few others. The article about printing is called 'bogtryk' and is particularly about letterpress printing the other forms of printing to be found elsewhere ('offset' 'litografi' 'dybtryk' etc.). We even have an article about leaden types ('blytyper') and a mention of the Ludlow types (it appeared to be a first on the Web). Of course we/I are far from finished (never to be expected) but perhaps we could translate a few sections from Danish to English? I am working on the 'point' but has not come that far. I do not have information about the first attempts to define the point.

In the Danish Wikipedia 'printing presses' are part of 'printing' but they should probably be moved to a separate article.

Ditlev Petersen (talk) 22:22, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Can you read Fraktur?

You have probably encountered Fraktur or Schwabacher, the German blackletter typefaces that were once commonplace but became obsolete in the 1950s. Even native German speakers often struggle to read these faces now. (Here's an example from an online book.)

In case you have the knack for Fraktur and want it to be known, I've created a template to add to your userspace: {{User:Alarob/frak}}

Using it will automatically put you in the category "Wikipedians who can read Fraktur." — ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 03:24, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Advanced wiki typesetting

People interested in making good typography in wiki please join the discussion. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 08:17, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Handwritten signatures

Talk:Signature points here, so, I hope someone here knows what to do...

I saw this addition of a signature file to Rudyard Kipling and the signature appears to have been "cleaned up". Compare commons:File:Rudyard Kipling signature.svg to commons:File:Kipling signature.jpg

See also this vs this.

I assume this is not a good thing for someone to be doing, as it removes all the nuance from the pen strokes.

I know nothing of this topic, nor am I very familiar with Image policy. Someone else please take over, or advise. Thanks. –Quiddity (talk) 04:42, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

It's OK. The SVG ("cleaned up") image was done for the sake of the infobox you reference in the article Rudyard Kipling. The SVG is well suited to this use, as the signature is reduced in size and shows against a light colored background. The more accurate JPG would not scale well for this use. The SVG file is also much smaller in size (number of bytes) and allows the page to load slightly more quickly than a JPG would. So SVGs are preferred in many cases.
Anyway the creation of the SVG does not preclude continued use of, or reference to, the JPG. — ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 22:37, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
I don't agree with substantially altering an image like this. The practice is completely wrong and we need to stop it. We don't trace photographs of famous paintings into SVG cartoons so they'll scale well and appear transparent against a background and be a lower file size. Signatures are immensely subtle and personal; there is an entire field of study dedicated to them. There is no way a random Wikipedia editor is qualified to trace somebody's signature with SVG paths and call it the real signature. We can't accept this practice. We can trace flags or symbols or coats of arms—abstract ideas that have been reproduced by many different authors—but not signatures, which are the sole property of a single author. The entire premise of signatures, their whole cultural purpose, is that they belong entirely to one person. They are not vetted and approximated by a second illustrator unless the owner expressly authorizes it. If we want signatures they need to be photographs of authentic signatures. If a signature looks bad in an infobox it should simply be removed and placed in context within the article. —Designate (talk) 20:31, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
I think it's fine to trace signatures to make 'em into SVGs for use in infoboxes, and if anyone could do that for Carmen Electra, it would be greatly appreciated! Azx2 18:22, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

"Typing character" sections

Several articles (§ and are the ones I've just looked at) have a "Typing character" section, with instructions on how to type the character. Setting aside the dubious section name ("How to type x" or similar would seem better to me) these appear to add little to the article and to hit WP:NOTHOWTO.

As such, I propose removing such sections in general, and only including them when there is something more notable than simple instructions, such commentary about how one character is easier to enter than an alternative and has thus been more widely adopted for a given purpose, or about how use of a character has influenced keyboard design.

Thoughts?

me_and 16:03, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Most of the marks in {{Diacritical marks}} and {{Punctuation marks}} include details about how they are created, or may appear, with unicode and HTML. Many of them include the information in the lede section. Related, are the columns in tables such as List of logic symbols and Whitespace character.
I understand the objection, but I don't think deleting the information is a tenable solution. Moving it out of the lede (in those cases), and into a guideline-endorsed subsection and format, would be my suggestion. –Quiddity (talk) 02:08, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
Do you have an idea/example/proposal for what such a subsection would look like, or for the guidelines themselves? —me_and 11:56, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
Not sure, and not much time to devote to it. I've left requests for feedback at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Computing#Encoding and display of typographic marks and Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Writing_systems#Encoding and display of typographic marks, which seem to be the most relevant other projects. HTH. –Quiddity (talk) 05:54, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
I agree with the OP. It's useful but not encyclopedic. I see no problem with removing these sections, as we would remove tech tips from any other article. —Designate (talk) 02:31, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
Oppose WP:NOTHOWTO indicates that an article should not read like a manual, but I don't think that implies that every bit of information that could be useful in performing an user action should be deleted from an article. Comparison of the generation and encoding of these characters in different computer user interfaces is encyclopedic. Digital typography is dominant these days--deleting all the encoding examples would leave a big gap in the coverage of these symbols. And giving just the Unicode code point is obviously inadequate, as it does not cover other encoding systems or the input methods, which are conceptually independent of the code points. Thus I am in favor of keeping these sections. Which is not to say that they could not be trimmed if excessive, but deleting them completely would harm the articles. --Mark viking (talk) 06:46, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
I could cope with this as an outcome, although I think it would be useful to have a guideline on what is and isn't an appropriate level of detail; ideally this would cover only the top few operating systems/keyboard layouts/interfaces, and in as general a fashion as possible (preferring less efficient but more general methods such as alt-codes over options that only work on some keyboard layouts). Does that make sense? —me_and 14:54, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
That seems reasonable to me. KvnG's apostrophe example could serve as a good example. It is compact and gives examples of encodings for just the major OSes and markup languages. --Mark viking (talk) 16:48, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose - The examples cited (§ and ) definitely need improvement but I think it is possible to include this information in an encyclopedic manner. See Apostrophe#Entering_apostrophes for instance. ~KvnG 15:17, 12 October 2013 (UTC)


Section sign
§ U+00A7
167dec = A7hex
CP 1252 167
CP 437 21
(La)TeX \S
HTML /
SGML /
MathML
&sect; &#167;
&#xA7;
Alt code Alt++00A7 Unicode
Alt+0167 ANSI
Alt+21 OEM
Windows
AltGr+ Shift+S US international
AltGr+ Shift+S UK international
Mac OS
Opt+6 US
Opt+5 US extended
§ UK
X / Unix /
Linux
Ctrl+ Shift+UA7
compose+SO
Compose+!+S GTK+
Vim Ctrl+K+S+E Ctrl+V167
Emacs C-x+8+S
iOS 123 & §
Partially agree. The info is excessive and never complete. Since keyboard layouts, HTML entity and alt code are worth an entry, the particular information bit of interest may be reduplicated in other articles. DOS/Windows alt codes and *ML numeric character references are formed algorithmically, but named entities, TeX macros and key combinations are not. I tried to make an info box, shown here for the section sign. — Christoph Päper 09:46, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
Typing §
Windows Alt code Alt+0145
Macintosh key combinations § (UK)
Opt+6 (US)
Opt+5 (US extended)
X11 Compose+SO
HTML entity &sect;
Unicode code point U+00A7
I like the infobox idea, since it keeps the information while breaking it out of the main flow of the text. I'd prefer something a little simpler than your suggestion though; something of the ilk of this cut-down version (I based the list of things to include partly off Quotation mark#Typing quotation marks on a computer keyboard). —me_and 09:27, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
I like and support this general infobox proposal. I'm not sure how we'd decide on what contents to include/exclude though. I definitely prefer the comprehensiveness and added detail of Christoph's proposal, but I wouldn't want it to grow much bigger...
Are there any/many details (programs/OSes/International variants/etc) that are already being excluded from Christoph's proposal? That would give us an idea of its potential slippery-slope largest-size, and what we'd need to write an explanation for in the template docs of why we excluded them. –Quiddity (talk) 22:20, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
FWIW, I did not include the French keyboard layouts which are present in § – that means the macCSA and azerty parameters above does nothing – and I also left out Ubuntu, because that are just special cases of *X with a certain key combination used for the compose key. I’m not too sure about onscreen keyboards, as is iOS.
I also don’t like the reduplication of US and UK International keyboard combinations. If that happens frequently, one could include a redundancy check and combine the entries. — Christoph Päper 17:31, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Dave Nalle

Draft:Dave Nalle is a draft space page related to this WikiProject. If you have any independent reliable sources to add to this article, we may be able to get it moved into article space.

If you are interested in helping out with more drafts, please see my list of draft space pages, and help me reach my goal of eventually getting them all to article space! BOZ (talk) 00:04, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Stacked numbers inline: monospaced or keep font? (RfC notice)

About template {{val}}. The template produces scientific notations of complicated numbers, used in-line. One such example number looks like this, in two variants:

0.12345+0.00111
−0.00099
  versus   0.12345+0.00111
0.00099

(Scientifically, the stacked numbers denote a range of measurement, to state that the actual number will be withing these two borders). To choose: do we use monospaces, or keep the running font for this? An RfC is opened at Template_talk:Val#RfC. Typographic eyes could help. -DePiep (talk) 17:14, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

  1. ^ W3C HTML 4 Specification