Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Universities

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WikiProject Universities (Rated Project-class)
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Things To Do
  1. Work on articles that need cleanup. A randomized short list is here
  2. Work on the collaborations of the month
  3. Create a page for each and every university and college and add {{infobox University}} for it. See the missing list for those institutions still awaiting articles.
  4. Place {{WikiProject Universities}} on every related talk page.
  5. Ensure all articles, including Featured articles, are consistent with the article guidelines.
  6. Continue upkeep of University Portal

Categories nominated for deletion[edit]

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bob247 (talkcontribs) 21:03, 9 October 2012‎ (UTC)

Style discussion underway[edit]

FYI: MOS discussion within the scope of this project

A discussion about the style of the academic course names is underway at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Titles#Names of academic courses. Ibadibam (talk) 23:14, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Editing Infoboxes[edit]

Hello everyone - as some of you have seen, I've been working on information regarding campus sexual violence. In my research for other articles, I've found that many of the universities that are part of the recent OCR list have been found in violation (not just investigation) a number of times. I was wondering how people felt about editing the college/uni infobox template to include something along the lines of "Found in violation of Title IX" (with some more graceful wording, of course). This information is becoming quite central to the history of higher education in the United States, and so I think that should be reflected in our information. TYVM for your input Thebrycepeake (talk) 18:13, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

  • Oppose - Are we also going to add infobox parameters for the (a) the number of civil lawsuits filed against the university, (2) the federally-guaranteed student loan default rate of alumni, (3) number of building and health code violations, (4) the number of sexual harassment lawsuits filed against faculty and staff, or (5) the percentage of male, female and transgendered faculty? The possibilities are endless . . . . Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:39, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose inclusion in the university infobox. The infobox should be limited to essential, defining characteristics of the subject. This is interesting and important information that should be included in the article but it doesn't rise to the level of inclusion in the infobox. (In case anyone is wondering or going to raise an objection, I do oppose the inclusion of some of the information that is already prevalent in the infobox. It would certainly be different if it were solely up to me!) ElKevbo (talk) 19:46, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Like ElKevbo, I think the infobox should be limited to defining characteristics of the subject. —Mr. Granger (talk · contribs) 20:08, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose. In addition to the arguments above, this would be a purely US-centric addition which makes no sense for the great majority of universities. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 20:36, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Earnest Question I see this "not defining characteristic of the subject" used over and over again, and I'm still trying to figure what this means -- defining to who? At what point does something come into definition? If the short history of Title IX, places like University of Florida have been found in violation of federal regulations (not just accused) FOUR TIMES. That's almost once every 10 years! What is the point at which something becomes defining, and how do we locate that point?Thebrycepeake (talk) 15:16, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
That's a good question and I don't have a short, easy answer at the tip of my tongue. Thinking out loud, I'd imagine that such an answer might say something about the core mission of the institution and its lasting impact. A more concrete answer that is easily defended using Wikipedia's core principles, particularly WP:OR and WP:RS, is that the infobox should contain the information that other reliable sources commonly cite as being important and common characteristics shared by most colleges and universities e.g., what information do people and organizations like the U.S. Department of Education, publishers of popular rankings, well-respected scholars, and the institutions themselves typically share as essential information that defines and distinguishes institutions? If I were starting this infobox from scratch, that is probably where I'd start.
As I've said to you before, I think you're much better off first writing a good article about this topic and then linking each institution to that article as appropriate. A few institutions will have enough history with this topic to warrant a brief (or maybe even long) discussion in their main article but most will probably only warrant a mention with a link to the main article about the topic and its history and present developments. ElKevbo (talk) 16:16, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
Your advice last time was well taken, ElKevbo - see U.S. Department of Education Releases List of Higher Education Institutions with Open Title IX Sexual Violence Investigations and New Campus Anti-Rape Movement, and edits at Campus rape. In the process, though, I'm discovering that Title IX violations (and sexual assault in general) have been part of many US college and universities histories in the 20th and 21st century (and not simply after the 1960's as some articles suggest). This is not original research, but simply going through decades and decades of new reports, government documents, etc. while writing the previous articles.
That brings me to where I am now: I agree with Jonathan A Jones that it is not a global issue, and probably doesn't belong in the infobox, but I think it is a defining enough characteristic to go in the leads of many (though probably not all as you mention above) US colleges and Universities. News articles in relation to sports and the like have been citing issues of sexual violence as "defining" since long before the public OCR lists, with plenty of cites to be made to make this case. I felt like WP:IAR might start to apply here, but apparently (beyond categories) there is no WP rule on "defining"... Thebrycepeake (talk) 16:53, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
Don't you think there's a difference with being subject to a Title IX investigation and being subject to federal sanctions under title IX? In other words, shouldn't there be a higher bar for being "defining" than just being investigated, but rather if that investigation resulted in something?--GrapedApe (talk) 03:11, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
Sure GrapedApe - I'm not saying that the folks under investigation should just be added to the lede (although I may think so, I can understand the resistance to it). What I'm talking about are schools found OUT OF COMPLIANCE by the OCR (not just accused of it), especially because most of the universities on the list released by OCR have been previously under investigation and/or found in noncompliance. As for federal sanctions, no one has ever been sanctioned, which pulls all federal aid and is called the "nuclear option," because it does more damage to students and faculty than it does the administrators who facilitate non-compliance. see here for a simple version of the debate on sanction. What do you think? Thebrycepeake (talk) 16:54, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose. This is a world-wide project and indeed a world-wide issue but this way of dealing with it seems only to relate to the USA. Itsmejudith (talk) 11:33, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Rutgers University, Rutgers New Brunswick, Rutgers Camden, Rutgers Newark[edit]

Any Rutgers experts out there. I'm in a bit of an edit war with another editor. We are fighting over which templates to use at the bottom of each page. He insists on using the Rutgers template for all pages. I'd like to use the template for each campus where appropriate, since there are specific topics listed for each campus. Any thoughts? I suppose I can make a proposal if that would help things and there is enough interest.....Pvmoutside (talk) 03:00, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Your edits go against nearly a decade of usage on Wikipedia, and guidelines from WikiProject Rutgers that have been around nearly as long. -Kai445 (talk) 03:36, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
I would be surprised if we really needed more than one template for one university. Itsmejudith (talk) 11:31, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
So the problem is Rutgers is a hybrid university. Each campus has a different chancellor, different sports teams, different conferences. Camden and Newark are Division III, New Brunswick is division I......They are even broken down on the Rutgers web site...Pvmoutside (talk) 12:38, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
There are many universities with a setup similar to Rutgers, Penn State is one of them. The fact they are all part of the same university system needs to be reflected in the unifying template. If there are a significant amount of articles related to the smaller campuses, then an additional template could be included or those articles worked into the existing Rutgers template. Looking at the template, it could use some reorganization and trimming. Athletics doesn't appear to be on the template at all and many of the links just go to the article on the specific campus. Really, though, the whole organization of the Rutgers-related articles is very confusing. It would seem the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for "Rutgers University" is Rutgers–New Brunswick. Rutgers-New Brunswick is the school that uses "Rutgers" as their team name, so it would make sense that Rutgers University redirect there and the current Rutgers University page be renamed something else like Rutgers University System or similar and trimmed down since most of the history of Rutgers is about the original New Brunswick campus. A merge is also a possibility given the large amount of overlap. Again, Pennsylvania State University is a good example of that. It is about the main University Park campus, but includes the info (enrollment, staff, etc.) about the other campuses with links to those articles. I get that within the Rutgers system they don't want it to be called the "main campus" or something like that, but that's the reality. It's the original campus, athletic teams are known simply as "Rutgers", and it is referred to in the media as "Rutgers" while Camden and Newark usually have the qualifier. It's not about equal treatment, it's about the most common usage. --JonRidinger (talk) 13:56, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────The campuses are centrally administered. Degrees are awarded "Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey" and are not campus-specific. Professors are not campus-specific, they are employees of Rutgers, not (Rutgers-Campus), and in some schools faculty teach on multiple campuses. Further, some schools span campuses (Rutgers Business School, on Newark and New Brunswick) and soon to be the unified Rutgers School of Law (starting with the next admitting class, spanning Camden and Newark). Student services span all campuses (RUID #/Student ID, NetID/CAS, cross-honored parking, Rutgers Campus Buses on both NB and Newark, etc.). The university as a whole was admitted to the AAU, not a specific campus. There is single color, motto, fight song, and standardized logotype and imagery across all campuses. Three Campuses, One University. -Kai445 (talk) 14:12, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

It appears an agreement was reached, with three editors now in favor of a collapsible template. -Kai445 (talk) 14:25, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
Again, nothing unusual. My own alma mater Kent State University has a similar setup in that the regional campuses are centrally administered and students are all considered as "Kent State University" students and degrees are never campus specific, even those degrees only offered at a regional. Even so, the regional campuses have articles about them while "Kent State University" mainly focuses on the Kent campus. Same for Penn State. University of Nebraska is another example, which redirects to University of Nebraska–Lincoln. My point is that when people look for "Rutgers" they're most likely looking for Rutgers-New Brunswick since it is the campus that refers to itself, particularly in the highly visible realm of college athletics, as "Rutgers". Camden and Newark both compete in Division III and use the campus names in their team name. University style guides are understandable, but not the final say. The setup at Rutgers is not unique. --JonRidinger (talk) 16:11, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
I had fun at the Rutgers-Penn State game the other week, but I'd like to think we're more than just our athletic teams :), and I don't think that the structure of athletic teams should dictate how the main article is written. I know professors that literally teach in New Brunswick one portion of the day, and then commute to the Newark to teach class the same day (and visa-versa), I'd be impressed if other schools functioned the same way... -Kai445 (talk) 16:45, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────As for template-related discussion, it is taking place here: Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_September_21#Template:Rutgers_New_Brunswick -Kai445 (talk) 17:16, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

  • Comment I taught at Rutgers for a number of years, and also attended their library school. Their system at the time was a confusing mixture of units organized ad hoc on different and conflicting principles, and to the extent I have kept up with matters, it has since gotten successively more confusing--especially with the medical schools. I think the only possible way to clarify it is an article for the system as a whole and then articles for the different campuses and major units. (I point out that 40 or 50 years ago the Camden and Newark campuses were except for their law schools of very subordinate importance and prestige, but that at least Newark is reaching a reasonable degree of self-sufficiency). (I suggest also that something similar is the best approach to other complex systems , especially those with substantial histories.) DGG ( talk ) 19:20, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Amity University[edit]

A merger has been proposed at Talk:Amity University RfC: Merger proposal, should Amity Law School to be merged with Amity University?, interested editors are requested to give their feedback. Thank you! — CutestPenguinHangout 17:01, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal[edit]

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:48, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Question: Lists of people vs. lists of alumni[edit]

I have a question regarding the proper naming of lists of university people, specifically List of University of Florida people. Unlike many lists of university people, this list includes only notable alumni (i.e., notable persons who attended the university, regardless of whether they graduated or not) of the University of Florida. It does not include presidents of the university (separate list), non-alumni university administrators and faculty (separate list), or non-alumni university sports coaches (separate lists). Is it appropriate per WP:Universities' article naming conventions to rename this article "List of University of Florida alumni"? I ask project members to share their opinions on point. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 08:47, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Normally we make one list, if there are a small number, and divide at some point, usually between 30 and 50. Florida's list is very large in several of the groups, so it is appropriately divided After the division, it should read ...people ...faculty etc. I think someone just forgot to change the name. DGG ( talk ) 05:01, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the input, DGG. Large lists of faculty, alumni, and student-athletes naturally proceed from being one of the 5 to 10 largest universities in North America, with 300,000+ living alumni, a strong research faculty, a strong college sports program -- and a strong WikiProject! I have moved the main alumni article to "List of University of Florida alumni," since it is now an alumni-only list, with separate lists for presidents, faculty and administrators, and various sports, and I have include "see also" links to the other University of Florida-related lists. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:15, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

List nominated for deletion[edit]

Folks here might be interested in the recent nomination of List of American higher education institutions with open Title IX sexual violence investigations for deletion for lacking notability, diversity, and WP:RECENTISM. Please join the conversation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thebrycepeake (talkcontribs) 18:12, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Featured Article candidacy for Oxford College of Emory University[edit]

Hello everyone, I have nominated Oxford College of Emory University for featured article status, and I would like to ask project members to drop by and leave some comments if they have time. You can find the nomination here. Thanks in advance! --haha169 (talk) 19:46, 12 October 2014 (UTC)